at this hour, from investigative to investigator, president-elect trump tapping matt gaetz for attorney general. he would lead the very department that as recently as last year was investigating him. the reaction from within doj. plus, not in the job description. tulsi gabbard, trump's pick for director of national intelligence, now facing accusations she has promoted propaganda from the kremlin. what she is saying about that. plus, the president to peru. one of joe biden's last foreign trips as president will bring him face with china's president xi jinping. his message now that trump's on his way back to the white house. seeing red. nbc's exclusive reporting on man who could oversee health care for trump. how robert f. kennedy jr.'s anti-vaccine group lost $3 million last year. our nbc reporters are

following all of the latest developments, and we start with the justice department. they are still absorbing the idea of matt gaetz as potentially their new boss. david rhodes, good to see you, david. i wonder what you are hearing inside doj. >> there was shock. some people called it insane. given his own past where he was previously investigated in a sex trafficking case, no charges were filed against gaetz in that case, but there is a concern that that experience, having gone through a federal investigation, may make him biased against the doj. a bigger issue as many people are citing the lack of experience, gaetz is a laurp. briefly practiced law in florida but has no prosecution experience. the biggest concern is as trump's ally will he retaliate against people who participated in the two criminal investigations against president

trump. for january 6th and for mishandling classified documents. so, multiple concerns. it's just not clear whether gaetz will become the attorney general or not. >> thank you for that. now to another controversy over trump's pick for the top intelligence job. nbc's dan de luce is covering this for us. tulsi gabbard has been known as a favorite of state media in, a once vocal backer of bernie sanders. that's been the reaction to her as a possible director of national intelligence? >> there has tremendous concern on the hill among democratic lawmakers. you have a former cia case officer, representative spanberger, yesterday said she was appalled by the choice that gabbard's not qualified, and also the way she -- she said traffic in conspiracy theories is worrisome for an intelligence official. gabbard denies that's where she

is at. she portrays herself as a critic of the all-star break and critic of past u.s. foreign policy. inside the intelligence communities, i think there is a view they will do their job, their duty, and they see themselves as apolitical officials and analysts who give the president the unvarnished truth as far as they can estimate it. but the question is, is she so inclined, disposed to russian president putin's viewpoints, the russian kind of official line. will that end up somehow leading her to skew the intelligence reporting. we will have to see. but there is also criticism she is unqualified, she has never worked in any intelligence realm before, and certainly never managed a massive sort of bureaucracy like this, 18 agencies, it's got $70 billion of a budget. in the end she is the last sort

of arbiter of what intelligence goes to the white house. >> thank you. now to president biden en route to peru for a third meeting with chinese president xi jinping. nbc is reporting from lima. mike, what's the hope for this meeting? obviously, especially now in the democrats' time in power is ending. >> reporter: well, this moment we are in now you the transition from one president to another is a potentially vulnerable moment for the u.s. one of the goals that jake sullivan, the national security advisor, outlined for the meeting is to make sure that all lines of communication, especially including military to military communication are open between u.s. and china at this moment. as he put it, ensure that there is no complications during this period. jake sullivan also saying that the president is likely to raise with president xi what officials have described as a broad and significant hacking campaign that originated in china direct at individuals associated with both the u.s. government and some of the political campaigns.

a major concern. stepping back more broadly, as we now are nearing the end of the biden presidency and assess his domestic and foreign policy legacy, one of the obvious hot points we think about often is the now almost three-year u.s. support for ukraine and its war against russia. of course, the president's decision to end the u.s.'s military commitment to afghanistan. what administration officials think broadly has been probably the most significant thing that the president has done is to manage this relationship between the u.s. and china. potentially our biggest competitor in the 21st century, strengthen our alliances with countries like japan and south korea as the u.s. has emphasized these relationships it that will be the focus of apec, 21 countries focused on the economy. the election of donald trump will overshadow the second stop that the president makes on this trip in brazil, meeting with other members of the g20, especially so many european allies who have very significant concerns about what will be to

expect from a potential trump -- from the coming trump presidency. >> mike, thank you for that. now to an nbc news exclusive and details about how rfk jr.'s anti-vaccine nonprofit, the children's health defense, is now in the red. i know you have been looking into this organization's tax filings. what did you find out? >> well, children's health defense again, like you said, the anti-vaccine organization that robert f. kennedy jr. founded. he has been working with them for a long time. every single year he has been with them it's been a juggernaut. now, the pandemic exploded everything. so they were making a couple of million dollars a year. pandemic happened. that boosted to $6.8 million. 2021, went to $16 million. and in 2022, at the height of their -- could this get any worse, basically, for health, they earned $23.5 million.

now, we almost expected that to continue, that growth to continue in this timeline that we are in, but had i got the tax returns it was surprising because they lost about 30% of their revenue. they are back town to 16 million. that's interesting. >> so when donald trump talked about this and rfk jr. talked about the fact that he expected to be some sort of oversight, have some special position overlooking health care in america, he gave interviews where he said clearly, this is not the first time he said very clearly i am not against vaccines. what exactly does the children's health defense group that he was a founder of, right, do? so, just to be very clear, that is a lie. that is not true. robert f. kennedy jr. said on podcasts that he stops young mothers while hiking and tells them, please do not vaccinate your babies. i can't think of a more anti-vaccine person. but his group, yes, he is on

leave, let's remember he went on leave in april of 2023. so for 15 weeks of work got paid $326,000. >> oh, that's a good salary. >> he is the highest paid member of the organization even on leave. he did fundraisers for them, accepted an award, he is a keynote speaker on leave. so i am not sure what they mean by on leave. what they do is they are a propaganda arm for anti-vaccination. they have television shows. they have a movie studio. they have a website. they give speeches and travel all around and talk and hold rals and make movies and they are a propaganda arm for the anti-vaccination movement. they are the vanguard for the movement. he is their leader. >> other things going on and other controversial suggestions of appointments by donald trump, we haven't heard a lot about rfk in this health role. we will see where that goes. brandy, important reporting. thank you for that.

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gastroenterologists to help relieve your occasional bloating and gas. when you feel the signs, it's time to try align. three years in the making, reportedly highly damning and now at the center of a major cabinet controversy, we're talking about the critical report on matt gaetz that "the washington post" said was going to evoke this week in the house

ethics committee. then donald trump chose him as his attorney general and gaetz resigned from congress. the committee is scheduled to meet today, but the agenda is confidential. the source also says, however, if there is a vote on any report, it would be released on friday. that's tomorrow, per committee protocols. regardless, the chair of the senate judiciary committee is calling on the house panel to preserve and share all relevant documentation from the three-year-long probe. >> the sequence and timing of mr. gaetz's resignation from the house raises serious questions about the contents of the house ethics committee report. i think there should not be any limitation on the senate judiciary committee's investigation, including whatever the house ethics committee has generated. >> you want to see it? >> absolutely. >> nbc's julie sorokin is reporting on capitol hill. also mariana sotomayor, congressional reporter for "the

washington post" and michael hard way in studio, former communications director and spokesman for congressman hakeem jeffries and senator dick durbin. what do we know about the house's investigation into matt gaetz? >> we know, chris, it has been ongoing multiple years. that committee is very elusive. it operates like a black hole. we know in september of this year, matt gaetz announced publicly to us and also in a letter to the committee he is done voluntarily cooperating with the panel's investigation. he said what they are asking of him, for example, how many sexual partners he had who are adults over the last seven years, is, quote, none of the committee's business. of course, gaetz has been the subject of a sprawling doj investigation, ultimately he did not get charged in that. the ethics panel meeting today. the investigative subcommittee, to decide whether they will release this report. once gaetz handed in his resignation though, that was effective at 12 noon today, this

investigation presumably could go away. sources tell my colleague that it's not against precedent that the committee has in fact before released a committee report on whoever they have been investigating of people who have left congress, who have resigned. i suspect this pressure that we have been hearing about all day long from senators on both sides of the aisle to get the investigation, to get the facts in their hands so that they can be informed when they are processing matt gaetz's confirmation to be the head of the department of justice, that is a requirement. not an option. i talked to senator kevin cramer, for example, who was unequivocal saying this is a waste of political capital for trump and republicans, that he resumes there are more than five to ten republicans who right now at this moment would vote against gaetz. he even said he is not sure how he is going to vote. certainly he is not happy with the guy, including the fact that he said that gaetz destroyed the house when he ousted kevin mccarthy. so a lot of bad blood for gaetz

here. we have reported as well, of course, that gaetz and j.d. vance's team are making calls around the senate to get a temperature check on his nomination. >> yeah, i think it is fair to say that matt gaetz is not the most popular member of congress on the hill. but let me ask you about what you're hearing on the ground, the real options that there are. i mean, obviously, this is a very closed committee. they are not likely to come out and all talk in front of cameras. but what are the chances we find out what's in this report? >> that's correct. this committee is incredibly tight-lipped. but i did want to note i have two sources familiar who now say that the committee will be meeting tomorrow, on friday. and that is when they will consider voting on this report. the report could also be publicly release as quickly as friday. of course, we have been hearing from a number of senators, both democrats and republicans, who very much want this report to be

released or at least turned over to the senate judiciary committee. though that lawmakers can prepare for whenever gaetz is before the committee for that hearing, they can read over this report, know that information, and question him on it. i am actually on the house side of the capitol where many house republicans have been very vocal about just how much they dislike matt gaetz, what he has done to the institution as a whole, and their complete disbelief that trump, as much as many of these republicans admire trump and are looking at who he is appoint to go his cabinet, they really can't believe that trump himself is going to appoint gaetz as attorney general. mullin, senator, former house member, joked earlier today he had to google whether gaetz even is a lawyer, which fact checked he is. he does have a law degree. >> he hasn't practiced

extensively, but he has a law degree. michael, take us inside these kinds of rooms. first of all, wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall? i know i would. how you approach a decision like this, first of all, he resigned from congress now. it would be a different kind of conversation presumably if he was still a member of the house, but, and a big but, he is the president-elect's choice for a very important position. >> jaw, i think his biggest problem, he doesn't have allies on either side. obviously, on the democratic side. there would be concerns in terms of what's in the report and whether he is qualified. on the republican side even a lot of people seem to hate this guy. that is incredibly problematic tomorrow as they have this conversation about what's going to happen with the report because i think there are many people on the republican side that have a bone to pick with him. >> are there rules, at least traditions, that guide these kinds of conversations? >> traditions are out the window right now. reality is that especially on divisive committees like judiciary, that doesn't exist in the ear, a which is his other

problem. you have many people that have a bone to pick with you. i think that is problematic. i don't understand why trump would expend this level of political capital this early on a guy like this. interesting to see what happens. >> we know that trump really does prize and often reward loyalty. we also know he likes praise for whatever he does. so will, i wonder, wanting approval outweigh any loyalty to kbaets, who has been a fierce ally, or could trump sour an gaetz as he grows more -- people grow more critical as there is more back lash? >> it's possible. there are many republicans on capitol hill who are hoping that trump does sour on this pick. ty think one thing to note, especially as we are waiting for house ethics, trump, obviously, is not just exerting pressure on a number of republicans here, but it is possible he will continue to exert pressure on speaker mike johnson. johnson has told reporters that

he is not involved in any way with any house ethics investigation. there is a clear line of respect, i should say, to make sure that the speaker does not get involved, does not direct these members as to what to do, and that's pretty critical here because there has not been precedent in the past for a speaker of the house, as much as trump may try to pressure the speaker, has gone to these members to say, don't do this. if johnson were to do that, though he said he is not going to, that would be incredibly consequential. again it would show just how much influence trump has. >> it's interesting, isn't it? we keep talking about how this matt gaetz pick is going to put pressure on the senate side, but on the house side, as you point out, there is a different kind of pressure, but could be pressure nevertheless, right? >> of course. this is just the first test of many, right, because when

republicans officially have the white house, the house and the senate next year, many republicans i have talked to are privately bracing for that pressure campaign that's going to come from trump, whether it's in the form of policy, whether it's in the form of trying to reform different parts of the government. of course, republicans are onboard with trump's agenda. they are excited that they have all levers of power to pass this conservative policies that they have been talking about for some time, but the devil is going to be in the details. and that pressure they know is coming from the white house at a certain point. >> so, michael, you have matt gaetz. you've got michael waltz elise stefanik tapped for roles in the upcoming administration. you figure johnson goes in. down three, right, at least temporarily. i want to play what he had to say about this yesterday. >> the republican conference is full of talented people who are

extraordinary leaders and have great expertise and everyone in the congress, in this conference could serve in a leadership position in the administration. but i have begged and pleaded with the new president enough already, all right? our numbers are small. >> there are still some outstanding decisions to be made, you know, calls to be made, house seats that has not been filled. having said that, what is a likely period of time where he could be, where speaker johnson could be missing three people, and how consequential could that be? >> this is great news for democrats. i thought it would be close in terms of the republican majority. but it becomes even slimmer with every passing day where you have a new republican appoint today something. again i think that the good relationship between speaker johnson and leader jeffries will be productive for all of us. i think we all should be happy about the fact that they have a good working relationship. in terms of keeping the trains running only time and preventing

government shutdowns and that sort of thing, i am optimistic about those things happening because of that relationship. >> when have the trains running on time? >> we haven't had a shutdown, which is like a miracle in this era of chaos. >> i will give you that. not much else. >> i'm hopeful. >> michael, thank you. pushing it down the road. julie and mariana, raise your hand if you are with me on that one? okay. thank you. michael, you're staying us with. appreciate it. well, today palm springs, california, is going to vote. this he would be one of the first cities in the country to improve reparation toss black and latino families forced out of their homes in the 1960s. the $5.9 million deal gives cash directly to former residents and their descendants of predominantly black and latino families to make room for commercial developments t would include millions in homebuyer

incentives and small business support. final vote on reparations agreements by the palm springs city council is set to happen by the end of today. and up next, u.s. officials tying to reassure the world it is still committed to fighting climate change, but will they buy it? one of the lawmakers who is leading the fight, democratic senator sheldon whitehouse of rhode island, will join me after this. this vid pears in our stockings. and if you got that gold one, it was like you had won christmas. my grandmother started it and now it's a tradition that i get to pass on to my kids. and that means a lot.

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a 150-foot climb, drones navigating a smoky haze and fiery trees plummeting to the ground. none of that is from an action movie t all just happened in the last few hours when dozens of firefighters worked to contain a wildfire that broke out at a park in new york city. they used water from the harlem river to extinguish the flames in an operation and fdny official called extremely dangerous. firefighters today are also getting a hold on the massive fire on the new york/new jersey border. now officially 50% contained, five days in. but weather experts warn an unprecedented drought makes conditions ripe for more fires following dozens that already spashld up and down the east coast. extreme weather conditions are the focus of world leaders gathered at a u.n. climate summit now. there are a smaller number of americans compared to past years. those there are on a mission to convince the world that a post-election u.s. remains a player in the climate fight.

rhode island democratic senator sheldon whitehouse is going to the climate summit and he joins me now. good to see you, senator. when you get to azerbaijan, what is your message to skeptics around the world who think the u.s. is no longer going to be a leader? >> well, that's an obvious fact. the u.s. is not to be a leader, at least at the federal government level. but california is the fifth biggest economy in the world. new york where these fires are raging is the tenth biggest economy in the world. you know, if california and new york work together, they can make a very big difference. they are collectively one of the biggest nations in the world. and they have enormous power and reason to lean in to getting climate right. so that's one point. the other is some of the things that we can get done are fairly straightforward. there is not a huge coalition in favor of leaking methane out of fossil fuel facilities.

plug the leaks. it's not that complicated. we detect them from satellites now, so they can't hide. and defend the carbon border tariff that the eu and the uk have already agreed to. that will send a powerful climate economic signal into the u.s. and china and india and other countries. if they stick to their guns on that, that's a huge step for climate progress. so there are a lot of ways which we can work forward notwithstanding the well paid fealty of the trump administration to fossil fuel interests. >> you told politico that trump and republicans are aiming a torpedo at climate progress that has been made over the past four years. when you talk about things like new york and california, what are you seeing in terms of conversations? are they starting? is there going to be, as you see it, some level of cooperation, if not on the federal level, states working together? it's very hard to find a state that has not felt the effects of

climate change the last several years. >> yeah, i think two things are happening. one, there is some of that already. if you look at california's fuel economy standards, many states, including my home state of rhode island and new york, have adopted those standards. they have become the de facto natural standard if you want to sell cars in the united states. more of that we do led by big states like california and new york, the better off we will be. the second is florida is right now ground zero for an insurance crisis that is going to spread beyond florida. property owners simply can't insure their properties. rates have quadrupled. the companies have gone bankrupt, pulled out of the state. the whole thing is a mess. and the mess is moving along the texas coast and the california wildfires are creating a similar insurance crisis and it's going to hit all coastal states and it's going to hit wildfire

adjacent landowners. we have even seen in the carolinas from the recent flooding that states and areas that thought they were safe will now have huge insurance problems. so this insurance problem is going to become a national crisis quickly, and when it does we are going to have to respond. >> i can tell you from personal experience, there is a lot of my friends who live in brooklyn, who are shocked to see their local park spewing lots of smoke over the weekend. so, let me ask you, do you think that this reality that so many people are seeing and feeling with weather events that have been tied to climate will overcome some of the loud and, frankly, successful voices who don't believe it even exists, that climate change is made up? >> yeah, i think one group that is going to be important is people who are fiduciaries for others. management of companies. fiduciary relationships to their stockholders, for instance. if you are a fiduciary and you

are obliged to take care of the best interests of someone to whom you have an obligation as an investment advisor or a ceo, you have to be truthful about the real circumstances that relate to climate change. so as climate change comes home to roost economically, fiduciaries are going to be forced to tell the truth. and that will be an additional pushback well beyond just the environmental community or scientists against this propaganda campaign of deliberate lies that the fossil fuel industry has funded for so long. >> apart from your trip to azerbaijan, something happening domestic, the trump transition news, the choice of now former congressman matt gaetz as attorney general. your colleague dick durbin already asked the house ethics committee to preserve all the documentation they have from their three-year investigation. do you think the ethics report should be released ahead of any vote on gaetz? let me get your reaction. >> it actually should be

provided to the senate judiciary committee very early on in the proceedings. like when his nomination papers are actually filed, we should have those ready to go. similarly, we should have the department of justice's files on their investigation. these are not ordinarily public documents, but when the individual who is a subject of the ethics committee investigation or the department of justice criminal investigation wants to be attorney general of the united states and we're charged with evaluating his fitness, those are documents that become relevant and important and obviously something that we should see. >> have you heard from any republican senators suggesting they would vote no, or at least expressing discomfort with this nomination? >> only what i have reported in the press and then what i would characterize as eye roll discussions from others who i don't want to name.

but i think there is an old story about a foreign -- who had a two-foot-high door built in his reception chamber, so everybody had to crawl in to see him. and i think the gaetz nomination is kind of the equivalent of that two-foot-high door. this is trump trying to make sure that senate republicans will crawl for him. i don't know that they all will, particularly if the information about his past behavior in these files comes out. so, it's going to be very, very interesting. and the fact that they didn't even tell the incoming chairman of the judiciary committee, chuck grassley, they were considering in nominee shows that the trump folks were paying no courtesy whatsoever to republican senators, which confirms my view that this is basically the two-foot-high door crawling test for republican senators.

>> will they need it -- if you were a betting man, you have been around for a while, will this idea, not yet a formal nomination, go forward? will he be confirmed? >> i would be very unpleasantly surprised if somebody with his background, lack of seriousness, and lack of integrity were confirmed as attorney general of the united states. >> senator sheldon whitehouse, safe travels to azerbaijan. thank you for talking to us today. >> you are nice to have me on. >> thank you. coming up, exhausted, burned out and scared. americans threatening to leave the country after the election. how many will actually pack their bags? we'll talk with one woman who did pack up her whole family and one who is helping others do it next. [♪♪] did you know, there's a detergent that gets your dishes up to 100% clean, even in an older dishwasher? try cascade platinum plus. for sparkling clean dishes even on the toughest jobs. just scrape, load and you're done. switch to cascade platinum plus.

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it happened very quickly as election night unfolded and results came in. a huge 1,500% spike in google searches related to leaving the country and how to move. unhappy voters checking out costa rica and norway and ireland, and if those weren't far enough away, 76100% increase in searches about moving to new zealand. the headlines were ubiquitous from "the new york times" chronicling election exhaustion to cnbc reporting the highest number of searches came from

blue wall states wisconsin and pennsylvania. and the front cover of new york magazine's election week issue gives readers two ballot options. dread or anxiety. joining me samantha wilson, the founder of smart moffittly, and sara odell, an obstetrician who moved from olympia, washington, to british columbia, over fears of a national abortion ban. okay. samantha, have you seen a spike in busy surrounding and since the election? >> yeah, we have. actually before the election. when we had the first debate, we had a lot of requests just kind of looking for that plan b, what will happen if maybe their candidate didn't win. people were looking back then. it slowed down a little bit and now it's busy. >> when you say busy, how much busier than this time last year? >> yeah, a lot. a lot. in fact, in the last quarter, actually, the last week since the election we have had about

maybe five times the calls in the last week than we did in the last quarter. as a matter of fact, i have three people now taking just the emails that are coming in every day. >> wow. okay. sara, you moved protectively, you stepped away from your day job as an obstetrician. so, thank you. you did this protectively. of course, now republicans control the white house, the senate and the house. so i wonder how you are feeling about your decision to leave, and how is has it been being out of the country for this election? >> we are definitely very grateful that we left. this election feels a lot less terrifying than 2016 did in a lot of ways because we've already gone and have legal status here in canada. but it's been a really good move for us. and so it's been an interesting couple of weeks. >> i mean, it's a lot, because you have a wife. you have kids, right? >> yes. >> how did you come to this decision? what was really motivating you,

and what made you say this is right for our family? >> we were those people in 2016 that started talking about it in 2016 as maybe someday we will do this, i don't know. then kind of put it on the back burner. when january 6th happened, that was very much the initial maybe this is something we should be thinking about. and then in 2022, my mother-in-law, who was a lieutenant colonel in the u.s. air force retired. told us we should go. she saw what was happening in the u.s. and thought we were not going to be safe for the rest of our lives and our marriage she felt was at risk. my right to be the parent to my children. she felt those things were worrisome. when the 70-something old lady tells you to go, you listen and then after the dobbs decision, it that solidified this was the right time because while abortion was likely to be legal in washington state where i was

working, i was concerned about a national abortion ban affecting my ability to do my job without being worried i was to going to go to jail. >> not everyone can pick up and leave their lives 100%. even if they want to. so how much of what you are hearing and the conversations you are having as people wanting a place to escape to occasionally if they feel like things are getting to be too much or folks who maybe have the option of working remotely, at least part time, because, you know, i think when sara dawn talks having legal status, you can't go to italy and decide you will live there indefinitely. tell me about the conversations and decisions people are making in their own lives. >> well, i think that a lot of the people that we deal with have been thinking about moving maybe at some point in the past already. and what we are finding now is that it's accelerated the process. finding a way to move is usually the challenge because i think we think we are more of a connected

world than we really are and we can just move freely among borders. but in in reality we can't. in italy in particular, it's not always so easy. it has a famous wall of bureaucracy that is no joke. so it does take a lot of time and a lot of planning for people to move. but there is new visas now. it's easier to work here, come and go. there are many ways you can come here and not actually have to move your taxable residency here italy has their arms open here and a lot of people have dreamt of maybe reunite being their families from, you know, ancient past, or just trying something completely new. >> we are just about out of time. i have to ask the obvious question. for people thinking about this, finding themselves very stressed for any number of reasons, what would you say to them? >> look into it. see if you can make it work. it doesn't work for everybody, but i would -- my life is better. my job is better.

i am less worried about my safety and my children's safety. if you can, look into it. >> sara and samantha, thanks so much. >> thank you. and still to come, trump says he was joking when he floated the idea of running again in 2028. why democrats aren't laughing, but taking action. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. at cold. dayquil vapocool? it's dayquil plus a rush of vicks vapors. ♪ vapocooooool ♪ woah. dayquil vapocool. the vaporizing daytime, coughing, aching, stuffy head, power through your day, medicine. our right to reproductive health care is being stolen from us. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies. we need your support now more than ever. go online, call, or scan this code, with your $19 monthly gift. and we'll send you this "care. no matter what" t-shirt. it is your right to have safe health care.

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today there is an effort to make sure an emboldened donald trump doesn't attempt to run for a third term. it is something prohibited in the constitution, but that didn't stop the president-elect from telling house republicans yesterday, quote, i suspect i won't be running again unless you say he's so good, we've got to figure something else. republicans seemed to take it as a joke. another in a series that trump made on the subject. >> under the normal rules, i'll be out in 2024. so we may have to go for an extra term. okay? i am going to have to extend for a couple of years. i don't think any of you would have a problem with that. so we have 16, we have 20, 24. '28, '32. '36. '40. '44. there are people out there think i'm not leaving. you believe it? hey, maybe that is a good idea.

>> well, whether he is joking or not, a house democrat is taking the idea seriously and wants to make sure no constitutional loophole exits. ryan nobles is on capitol hill. michael hardaway is back with me. ryan, democratic congressman dan goldman wants to clarify the 22nd amendment prohibition of being elected more than twice applies even if the terms are not consecutive. what more can you tell us is? >> well, the constitution is pretty clear about this, chris. but i think democrats have seen how donald trump has pushed the norms of conventions in washington and want to make 100% sure that he would not even attempt to try to run for a third term. that's why you see dan goldman offering up this resolution that has no binding effect, but puts republicans on the record that they agree that the constitution says the president can only run twice. listen to what dan goldman said last night. >> his jokes are not jokes. nobody takes them as jokes.

they are trial balloons. they are very intentionally designed to soften the response, and then to normalize his unconstitutional and anti-democratic goals. >> that's why democrats want to get their republican colleagues on the record right now before donald trump even takes office for a second time to make clear that everybody's on the same page, the constitution is specific about this and says nothing about consecutive terms, nothing about the fact that if the president runs after he has already been out of office, he could run again, and whether or not this even makes it to the floor i think is an open question. but now, chris, the fact that we are even talking about it shows it is something that democrats are concerned about. >> okay. thank you for that, ryan. michael, practically, is there a loophole here? >> i think this is real. his strategy is to float it softly in the beginning. he will say it over and over and over again.

we will hear this a million more times. ultimately this is a smart strategy by goldman and house democrats, make sure this airtight so four years from now there are no excuses, there is no wiggle room, there is nothing for donald trump. it's smart do this in the beginning than wait until you are in the administration. >> he is trying to rile up democrats? amending the stooulgs is a massively complicated process. it takes -- first of all, i think it happened 27 times in the country's whole history, right. maybe it's a political sideshow. >> you have to do to me way. you have to do the smart thing, make sure this is airtight again because this is donald trump's strategy for every horrible thing he does. he floats it in the beginning as a joke and before you know he is doing the actual thing. let's keep him from doing the actual thing. >> do you think he knows how complicated it is? >> no, i don't think he cares. his strategy is hire a bunch of lawyers, let them figure out. i want what i want.

we have to prevent him from serving another term after this one. >> thank you. another thing the president-elect is promising is transparency on ufos. while the pentagon's official position is no evidence exists of alien spacecraft, a group testified at a house hearing yesterday and said they believe that the federal government is knowingly concealing evidence of ufos. known as, of course, unidentified anomalous phenomenon, or uaps. >> what do you believe uaps could be or are? >> strong evidence that they are non-human higher intelligence. >> i echo my colleague's comments, sir. >> genuinely do not know. >> don't know, but we must find out. >> very low key delivery for something that's pretty wild, right? one of those witnesses a former d.o.d. official also testified

that the government has uap technology in its possession and claims it is being kept secret in order to, quote, hide the fact that we are not alone in the cosmos. that's it for us this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday 1 to 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" next.

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. quote, we'll see. that right there is what one democratic senator texted me yesterday when i asked if republicans really will confirm matt gaetz. the answer i got back wasn't an immediate no way, after all gaetz is someone who was investigated by doj and is now being picked to lead doj. the answer