good to be with you. i'm katy tur. quote, we'll see. that right there is what one democratic senator texted me yesterday when i asked if republicans really will confirm matt gaetz. the answer i got back wasn't an immediate no way, after all gaetz is someone who was investigated by doj and is now being picked to lead doj. the answer i got was, we'll see.

it was a maybe. and here's why that shouldn't be so surprising. because 2025 is not 2017. donald trump has proven to republican lawmakers that he can survive any controversy. i could list them for you, "access hollywood," mccain, impeaches, insurrection, sexuals and fraud judgments and federal investigations and on and on and on. not just survive them, but thrive after them. he won outright this time, he won the popular vote. so who in the gop is not is really going ing ing to want t against donald trump right now, especially as fox news pundits are threatening an or else and steve bannon argues the new senate majority leader promised trump he would keep the chamber in session until every one of trump's nominations is through. now, did senate majority leader thune, incoming majority leader, really say that and did he say that even in the case of gaetz

or tulsi gabbard or pete hegseth? maybe not. but make no mistake, these choices are a test for thune and the party. it is trump's way of asking how loyal are you really. don't agree with me? all right, fine, listen to senator markwayne mullin, a year ago, markwayne mullin, last night. >> we had all seen the videos he was showing on the house floor that all of us had walked away of the girls he had slept with, he would brag about how he would crush ed medicine and chase it with energy drink so he could go all night. >> are you going to go for matt gaetz. >> no question we had our difference. they have been very public about it. i completely trust president trump's decision-making on this one. but at the same time, he's got to come to congress and sell himself. or to the senate and sell himself. there are a lot of questions out there. he's got to answer the questions and hopefully he's able to answer the questions right and if he can, then we'll go through

the confirmation process. >> whiplash right there. so, let's get into it. joining us now, nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard, who is in west palm beach and punch bowl news co-founder and msnbc political contributor jake sherman. jake, i am going to begin with you. am i wrong to say that maybe he can get confirmed because this is not 2017, this will be 2025 and donald trump has shown the republican party that he's a survivor? >> not going to say you're wrong, but i'll tell you there is a very -- how do i say this nicely -- there are flashing indications that this is a bridge too far for senate republicans. do i think they're lying or just talking tough today in november? perhaps. but, listen, senate republicans have a big majority. 53 seats is a lot. and it is not 60, but it is a

decent amount. all that said, all you need to lose is four. and pick four from susan collins, lisa murkowski, mitch mcconnell, todd young, any number of senate republicans, i can't think of anymore off the top of my head now because i'm putting myself on the spot. >> thom tillis. >> how about thom tillis in a state that is going to be difficult for him in 2026, should he run again? all of these folks, and by the way, matt gaetz is not well liked. that's just a simple fact. markwayne mullin, aside from, you know, backpedaling softly on gaetz, he did say that gaetz is going to have to come up here and sell himself. gaetz is going to have to come up here and talk to members of congress about why he should be the attorney general, talk to members of the senate, he has to go through a confirmation hearing in which democrats are going to bring up every last

scintilla of allegations against him. remember also, the ethics committee has a report. will it get out? i don't know. but the senate judiciary committee is going to do its best to get that report. there is a lot between now and matt gaetz getting confirmed or matt gaetz getting a vote. i don't think you're wrong necessarily, donald trump tends to defy political gravity, but, katy, the one place he has not, the one place he has not is capitol hill, an institution and a body he does not understand, he's been consistently befuddled by, and he has taken no real time to understand its nuances, never served here, doesn't have senior staff at this moment that is familiar with the place. so, it is going to be a tough slog. and on top of that, katy, the institution can only bear so much weight. matt gaetz, pete hegseth, tulsi gabbard, what if rfk jr. is nominated for a position?

senators are going to be sick and tired of taking tough votes. so we'll see. >> is there any concern among those senators about the backlash that could happen if they say no? i mean, i ask that very seriously because after the insurrection, jake, you saw a number of senators, lindsey graham included, coming out and saying enough's enough, we can't do this anymore and then turning right back around and saying donald trump wasn't responsible, it is not that big of a deal, and that was the insurrection. it happened after they were followed by trump supporters, at the airport, yelled at, they were threatened, physically as well. i just question the reason why i say it is a maybe, and the reason why i ask this today and frame it this way is because even on an issue as big as insurrection, a violent insurrection, you saw these republicans backpedal and try to make it easier for donald trump. i just don't know what the appetite is, maybe beyond susan collins and lisa murkowski, i

don't know what the appetite is to put themselves in the line of political fire from donald trump. and from steve bannon and from all of the acolytes and folks who stay on fox news, jake. >> well, we got an early piece of that evidence this week when the entire trump aligned right, elon musk, steve bannon, et cetera, et cetera, said you must vote for rick scott. >> yeah, but that was -- but that was a -- >> i hear you, it wasn't trump. >> that was a private vote. you don't know who exactly voted for who there. i think that's a bit different. this will be a public vote on these confirmations. >> i agree with you. but i'll add one more point. we're at the beginning of 2025. the next election is not for another two years. do you know how much is -- you know because we all live this, but think about just how much is going to happen between now and the next time voters cast judgment on senators. it is going to be a long time, at least two years for many of

them, four years, six years. >> so, vaughn, what is the point of putting someone like matt gaetz up for attorney general? why did the trump team -- why did donald trump announce him? >> reporter: well, also let's just be clear, i remember covering his primary run, jd vance to be clear, in 2022 in ohio, and remember the night that he narrowly won his primary race against several other republicans in ohio, jd vance was quick to credit just only a few people, and one of those people was matt gaetz. that matt gaetz came out on the campaign trail with him. he's somebody who has been the closest, most fiercest political ally next to marjorie taylor greene over the course of the last four years to donald trump. i remember after his first indictment back in march of 2023 in the new york case, they had somebody called me it was an indictment party at mar-a-lago after he flew back from new york. and who was there? it is matt gaetz in the crowd. and so this was one of those moments where it was a clear

head nod to those who are willing to do the dirty work of standing up and being willing to not only echo donald trump's claims about the deep state and political persecution, but then also that are actually willing to execute on the hypotheticals of the campaign into going and blowing up the department of justice and as matt gaetz says rooting out the corruption. now, i think the part about this here, to yours and jake's conversation, is that, you know, donald trump, right, tommy tuberville earlier today said that anybody that tries to stop matt gaetz from getting confirmed, we're going to try to beat you in a primary and get you out of office. lisa murkowski, donald trump tried to do that to her in 2022 and she was able to fend off the trump-backed primary challenger. we saw with brian kemp too, going to house districts is one thing, donald trump has not had the same success when he tried to knock off the likes of a murkowski and brian kemp, a state wide vote with people that have much more stronger

reputations across the state, that's a different ball game. >> that is a very good point. but are there four senators willing to take that risk, four of them, not just the lisa murkowskis who we'll name check over and over again. vaughn hillyard, jake sherman, thank you. joining us now, former senior fbi official and msnbc legal analyst chuck rosenberg and former chief of the counterintelligence and export control section in the doj's national security division, david ufman. matt gaetz, what would he do, what do you fear he would do atop the doj? >> katy, sometimes when somebody tells you what they're going to do, it is best to believe them, especially the context of the donald trump era. gaetz has said he intends to do precisely what trump has campaigned on, which is persecuting and seeking vengeance on anyone at the department of justice that had any connection to the investigations that have

bedeviled mr. trump. so, we have to take him at his word. he's going to try to fire or cause grave harm to the people who have done their jobs, done their duty, fulfilled their oaths to the constitution to carry out these investigations. he's going to do great damage to the department and its practices and norms if he's confirmed. >> what do you think of the house ethics committee report that we might see? there is a little precedent for us seeing this, the house releasing the report, even after a congressman has stopped serving in the house, couple of cases in recent -- not recent, but relatively recent past. if we do see it, do you think that matters, david? >> well, based on my experience having worked on the house ethics committee during the gingrich era, i can tell you that the committee has broad discretion to issue a report. it is the only committee in the house that has evenly divided between democrats and republicans, who would take a majority vote of the committee. that means at least one

republican member must cross over. and one wild card in that dichotomy is whether house leadership, speaker johnson, for example, will come under pressure from donald trump to pressure republicans on the house ethics committee to bury this report. obviously there is enormous political risk to doing that, it is going to leak, but if i'm a republican senator, who is inclined to vote against mr. gaetz if he goes through the confirmation process, i would love to see a copy of that report to give me more last to vote against him. there is information in the report that may be helpful to diffusing his confirmation. >> chuck, one of the questions i had was schedule left doesn't apply to lawyers within the department of justice, according to lisa rubin. you tell me if i got that wrong. and because schedule f doesn't apply, this is what donald trump wanted to do at the end of his last term, if he got re-elected in 2020, to root out any of the

civil service employees not loyal to him, if he can't apply schedule f to the doj, would appointing matt gaetz to the top of the doj do that dirty work for him? anybody who wasn't loyal to donald trump and didn't want to serve under matt gaetz because matt gaetz is matt gaetz would just decide to walk? is that a crazy thing to ask, chuck? >> well, it is not a crazy thing, katy. sure, people can resign. my sense from having spoken with a number of people who are there now is that they're not going to do that. they didn't join the department of justice because they were spineless. they joined the department of justice because they believed in its mission. and they still do. and maybe it is more important now -- right now than ever to stay. so, you know, look, katy, is it going to be a turbulent four ers if gaetz is confirmed?

of course. is it going to be a turbulent four years if gaetz is not confirmed and someone like gaetz is the attorney general of the united states? sure. of course. but i think if you're a career person at the department of justice, as david and i both were, now is the time to buckle your seat belt and stay and make sure -- take care of the institution that we both love. >> donald trump clearly wants to have somebody in that role who is going to end the weaponization as he calls it of the justice department, but appointing somebody like gaetz implies that you want to use that department for your own ends, your own maybe political weaponization because that's how matt gaetz has acted while he's been a member of the house. is the expectation, even if it is not somebody like gaetz, that there will be some politically targeted investigations to make people uncomfortable, to make them put them in financial pain at the very least, chuck?

>> i hope not. i fear so. what you look for in an attorney general, any attorney general, is i think three things, right? integrity, judgment and independence. you have those three things, the department of justice will be fine. doesn't matter if you're a republican, democrat, male, female, black, white, all that is meaningless if you have integrity, judgment and independence, the place will be just fine. and we'll all just be fine. if you don't have any of those three things and mr. gaetz has -- i can assure you none of them, then it is going to be rough. and the question i think, katy, is not whether the -- an attorney general like gaetz would try to do those things, it is whether an attorney general like gaetz can succeed in bending the department of justice to his will to do those things. the second thing is much harder than the first. and so i know this is an unsatisfactory answer, but we shall see. >> i want to play a little bit of sound, this is from senators

reacting to the matt gaetz and a representative as well, reacting to the matt gaetz nomination. >> i don't think it is a serious nomination for the attorney general. that's lisa murkowski's view. >> i was a little surprised at that one. more than a little surprised. >> i didn't like the way he handled the squabble with speaker mccarthy. i think it was -- that was unnecessary. i thought it was divisive. i think that the conference suffered. >> you're accusing matt of doing the very thing that you did. matt gaetz didn't lie under oath. matt gaetz did not sign fisa warrants based on russian disinformation. so we're going to give the president a chance to put his people forward, to every republican, give matt a chance. >> it is amazing to me that people are reacting the way they are, what you just showed, because there has been no one better at channeling the american public's frustration with weaponization of the department of justice than matt

gaetz. >> i like matt a lot, i know him very well. and i'm confident that if the senate confirms him, he will do a good job. >> do you think he's qualified to be attorney general, though? >> yes, i mean, he's an accomplished attorney. clearly his intention and president trump's intention would be to clean up the justice department and get it focused on its original mission, protecting the american people, not going after their political enemies. >> david, respond to the pro arguments there for matt gaetz as attorney general. >> katy, there is no factual basis at all to believe that gaetz would be an effective attorney general in the traditional sense of holding the rule of law, meeting his oath to support and defend the constitution of the united states. the weaponization that is going to occur is gaetz holding a weapon and directing it at the department of justice and the department of justice, attorneys and personnel, who they think are, you know, behaving or have behaved contrary to what trump

is trying to accomplish. so, you know, i take chuck's point, it is uncertain to what extent gaetz would be successful. but there is going to be a lot of broken furniture at the department and a lot of anxiety and stress and it is going to be a hard road for department employees over the next four years, i hope as chuck indicates people will hold the line and see their way through this. i faced situations like this myself at the department, where you weigh whether to stay, do the best you can to make things not as bad as they might be, if you left, but that's a really hard decision to go through. >> yeah, david laufman, chuck rosenberg, thank you. what my next guest says makes tulsi gabbard stunningly unqualified for almost any cabinet post. remember, gabbard is donald trump's pick to be dni. plus, what current and former pentagon officials are saying about this guy, pete hegseth, the pick of donald trump to lead the military. and what's happening behind

closed doors as the senate looks to confirm these folks. we'll ask a member of the senate judiciary committee. we're back in 90 seconds. senate judiciary committee. we're back in 90 seconds everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. and you have this dream every night? yeah, every night! hmm... i see. (limu squawks) only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your original medicare deductibles, but they may have higher monthly premiums and no

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for that job. gaetz is the worst. she may be tracking in at the second worst. >> that's not just gaetz, it is tulsi gabbard. will they confirm her as director of national intelligence? you just heard former trump national security adviser john bolton say he thought it was a joke. now he's asking the fbi to investigate her before a senate confirmation hearing. why? because he suspects she is a national security threat and he's not alone. some in the senate are privately saying the same thing. and so is our next guest. tom nichols who says gabbard is a walking christmas tree of warning lights. joining us now, staff writer at the atlantic, tom nichols. good to have you. tulsi gabbard, let's talk about her as national security threat. before we do, let us play a little bit of what she said about one leader in particular, this is bashar al assad, the strongman of syria. >> do you think assad is our enemy? >> assad is not the enemy of the

united states because the -- syria poses a direct threat to the united states. my point is that whether it is syria or any of these other countries, we need to look at how their interests are counter to or aligned with ours. >> how their interests could be aligned with ours. all right. so, tom, tell me a little bit about why you think that is such a problem from somebody like tulsi gabbard to lead the dni. >> it is not a problem if you're a private citizen. it is a free country. and if you think that poor bashar al assad and vladimir putin have merely misunderstood and not listened to enough, you're free to hold that view. but, these regimes are enemies of the united states. and if you're going to be sitting atop the crown jewels of the united states intelligence community, someone who holds those views is worrisome. i think people need to understand that dni is not just

another aspect of the intelligence community, but dni sits on top of all of the rest of the intelligence community, including the cia and other agencies. you know, federal workers are always warned about how to spot people in their own organizations who might be problematic or have difficult -- might be unreliable around classified information. you know, tulsi gabbard and her views, in particular, ring all those bells, just as many other people in the trump -- previous administration and nominees now do. so, you know, i don't often agree with john bolton, about up this is but this is one of those days, i guess. >> explain what the dni does. you say it sits on to of the other intelligence agencies. i liken it to an air traffic controller. what will she be in charge of doing specifically if she becomes the dni? >> it is more powerful than just air traffic control. the office of the director of

national intelligence was created after 9/11 because there was a concern that one of the ways 9/11 happened was that all the other intelligence agencies, the cia, law enforcement, fbi, at the national level, the national security agency, and other agencies, and we have many of them, were simply not coordinated. they weren't talking to each other, that they had become siloed in their information. what one knew, the other didn't. and so we created this very powerful position, one that i'm frankly not even back then not sure we should have created, but we did, to become kind of the godfather, you know, among all of these different intelligence families. and to say that there is one office that is going to integrate and pull together all of the intelligence from all of these and be the top intelligence officer reporting to the president of the united states. >> so, in that position, could she pick and choose what she

decides to bring to the president? could she emphasize or de-emphasize certain intelligence? something that was negative about bashar al assad or vladimir putin who she also had kinder words toward, could she make it so that that intelligence is not as strong or as direct when she brings it to the president? >> sure. or conversely, she could ask for intelligence or cherry pick intelligence that says, you know, our nato allies are reliable and we should cut them loose. it is an incredibly powerful position. and not to -- this is not a new problem, politicizing intelligence is always a problem in every administration because the goal here is, you know, nobody wants to be the person who walks in and tells the president something he doesn't want to hear, no matter how unpleasant it is. but that's why this is so

important. she is not there to execute the president's wishes about getting even with everybody else in the intelligence community. she is there to bring together the intelligence community, to give the president or the very best information he could get to protect this country. she's not qualified to do it. and frankly, her politics make it suspect about whether or not she could do that and not be a risk herself somehow. >> does she have any experience with intelligence, collating a mass amount of info like this? >> none. her supporters point to the fact that she was -- that she is a lieutenant colonel in the military, but all of her assignments and i don't, you know, i honor her service in the military, glad she served, but her assignments were in things like civil affairs, military police and support functions. she never has been an intelligence officer. she literally has zero background and the other problem is that dni, just like the defense department, is a

gigantic organization. it is a large bureaucracy that requires some serious managerial and executive chops and she is no more qualified to do that than pete hegseth is to be over at dod leading the biggest civilian workforce and hundreds of thousands of people in uniform. these appointments are ridiculous. >> donald trump has a lot of loyal people to him. why would he want tulsi gabbard for this role? >> i've been wondering about that because she hasn't really been instrumental, excuse me, in the trump campaign. but i think that her politics, which are both kind of far right and far left at the same time, antiamerican in my personal view, definitely not somebody who is going to care about the interests of career professionals who have devoted their lives to protecting this country, and like every other nominee, the simplest answer is she will do whatever he tells her to do, which is what he wants at the top of justice, he

has three places in particular, the defense department, justice and the intelligence community. he's got bones to pick and grudges and vendettas with all of three of those agencies, and i think those are his three worst nominations, because that's why they're being put there, to do what he wants them to do. >> he campaigned on promises made, promises kept. tom nichols, thank you for joining us. good to have you. >> thank you. alex jones' conspiracy laden company infowars has been sold to the auction block. the new owner is the onion. yes, the onion, the satirical news publication. the onion bought infowars to benefit families impacted by the sandy hook shooting. they tried to go to infor wars.com, you will get this, site unavailable until further notice. the news release from the onion announcing the sale was written in the voice of the ceo of global a fictional evil company

created by onion staff. coming up, alex padilla from the judiciary committee on what is going to happen with these nominees. don't go anywhere. to happen wi nominees don't go anywhere.

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atf, doj, every last one of them if they do not come to heel. i don't believe that means hearings where we yell at each other, i think that means a reshaping of this government, a reshaping of this town. >> agencies come to heel. got to bet that threat would likely come up in gaetz's confirmation hearings with allegations and investigations into sexual misconduct, sex trafficking a minor, illicit drug use, accepting improper gifts and obstruction of justice, all which of matt gaetz has denied. joining us now, democratic senator alex padilla who represents california. he serves on the senate judiciary committee, which will conduct matt gaetz's public confirmation hearing. if it gets to that point. all right, senator, do you think that matt gaetz can be confirmed? i would presume all democrats are voting against him. do you think there are enough republicans to get him

confirmed? >> good to see you again, katy. look, this is not just a horrible nomination by president-elect trump, it is going to be a true test for senate republicans. are they just going to be a rubber stamp for this president for the entirety of his term or will they stand up to their constitutional obligation and for what's right in this country? i can't imagine a worst nominee for attorney general of the united states than matt gaetz. your prior graphic here laid it out, those are just allegations that have been public, you know he was two days away from a scathing house ethics report, which we're trying to get as part of our responsible vetting in preparation for the hearing after the first of the year. >> do republican senators want to see that report as well? any indication? >> there is some indication a couple of republican senators including senator cornyn who is on the judiciary committee suggesting that house ethics

report, even though it wasn't released because gaetz's pretty quick resignation prior to the release, that that should make its way to the judiciary committee. both sides of the aisle. not just democrats who are interested in seeing what is in that report, but republicans ought to be interested in seeing what is in that report. if we're going to have a genuine process. but, again, this is just an indicator of what is to come in a trump presidency. the fight has already begun. >> republicans like lindsey graham have argued that donald trump got a mandate from the public to do what he wanted, to assemble the government, that he chooses, he won the popular vote, he won the electoral college, all the swing states. what is the democratic response? >> look, i think the trump victory is far from a mandate. win an election, but you don't prevail over the rule of law. does not give you the moral high ground when you do something wrong or despicable, whether it is donald trump, matt gaetz or anybody else. and, katy, my background is in

engineering and i like math, president biden won the popular vote by 7 million votes in 2020. i didn't hear republicans saying let's give biden everything he wants because he has a mandate. as it sounds today, the trump lead nationally is half of what it was for biden and shrinking by the day as more votes are being cast. so, no, trump does not have a mandate and certainly doesn't have the moral high ground. >> what about the argument from some republicans that senator -- soon to be majority leader john thune should call recess and allow donald trump to make recess appointments? >> yeah, well, i think that's an idea out of trump world that is unprecedented. nobody is completely sure about the legality or constitutionality of that. it is going to be a big test for republican leader to beat thune and republican is not as a whole. are they going to sit by and rubber stamp everything donald trump tells them to or live up

to their constitutional responsibilities and the responsibilities they took when they took the oath of office. that remains to be seen. >> senator padilla, thank you very much. before we go, and go to break, i want to play senator kevin cramer from north dakota talking about the matt gaetz nomination, republican. here's what he said. >> well, just to name one, matt gaetz comes to mind, and there are -- i have concerns that he can't get across the lot of political capital, i say we, a lot of people will spend a lot of political capital on something that even if they got done, you would have to wonder if it was worth it. i have concerns about him, about the way he disrupted and really destroyed the house of representatives for several months. what he did to a really good speaker in kevin mccarthy and accomplished nothing except getting rid of him, and, you know, ruined the reputation of the house of representatives to the point where they didn't -- they didn't catch the wave in this most recent -- >> my colleague julia tsirkin

then asked him are you going to support matt gaetz and kevin cramer ended up saying i would be open to it, but he's got a really steep hill to climb to get lots of votes, including mine. all right, still ahead, what a new administration could mean for the war in the middle east. how officials there are reacting to the president-elect's promise to end that war. first, though, veteran paul rycoff, what he says is most dangerous about the picks. he st dangerous about the picks. if you struggle. and struggle. and struggle with cpap.

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president-elect donald trump has chosen pete hegseth to serve as his secretary of defense. the fox news anchor and army veteran is raising red flags, even among republicans according to senator cory booker. >> look, i'm not going to just automatically react against people donald trump puts. i look forward to evaluating them. immediately from veterans groups, military leaders, who are nonpartisan, there is pushback from republican circles, that raises a lot of concerns. >> republican circles, that is. joining us now, host of the independent americans podcast and founder of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america paul rieckhoff. as senator booker said, he's not going to immediately say no to every one of the nominees, he's going to evaluate them. hegseth is a veteran, awarded two bronze stars, look that the face you're making, he's got an

ivy league pedigree. in the past, very experienced secretaries of defense have gotten us into some pretty ugly things, including wars. we had a very experienced secretary of defense in donald rumsfeld who lied about wmds. is there a positive case for somebody like pete hegseth? >> sure. you could make a positive case if he wasn't the most overtly political nominee in american history. i mean, he's also coming from fox news. and this would be like nominating sean hannity or rush limbaugh to leave fox news and d go directly to the pentagon. we talked about what qualifies someone, we should talk about what disqualifies someone. it should be disqualifying you're an extreme partisan bomb thrower who talks about blowing up the very institution that you want to lead that is represented by diverse people from across this country. so, you're seeing a lot of pushback from the within the republican party, it is quiet right now, but they're looking for the public vetting that is going to happen over the next couple of months and the

eventual vetting before the senate. >> let's talk about pete hegseth, talking about the pentagon and who he thinks should go. >> i've heard overwhelmingly in interviewing dozens and dozens of guys and gals in and out of service, mostly in, i want to talk to people still in, inside the culture, they said these woke crt dei thing gender stuff seeped into the ethos of their units. i would say over a third are actively complicit and then you have a lot of grumblers who are going along trying to resist the nonsense as much as they can. they're not fundamentally changing. >> that was from an interview in june last week. he said that the chairman of the joint chiefs needs to be fired. i guess -- if he comes in, who remains? who survives? >> loyalists. i mean, he's made that clear. and the people who have been listed and have contracts and have no choice. he also talked about taking

women out of combat roles. there are 200,000 women in the military right now. many of them are in combat roles right now in places like syria. we are forward deployed around the world. that's a good example of understanding how radical this type of a change would be. you would have to rip people out of actively serving forward units in order to execute the kind of stuff he's talking about. also a fundamental impact on recruiting, on retention, on morale, it will reverberate throughout the entire institution. what you got here is a culture war, effective communicator, he's a cull which are warrior that doesn't qualify him to lead all of the warriors in america and 2.7 million people that make up our pentagon. >> i guess what i -- what gets flagged in my mind is do you trust these people with donald trump atop of all of them? i ask that just with looking back into relatively recent history, looking bag at rumsfeld, looking back at wmd, a lie that got us into iraq and afghanistan. donald trump campaigned against those wars, said it was a big mess, if you have people coming in like tulsi gabbard, matt

gaetz, you got hegseth, you have ratcliffe as the head of the cia, i mean, do you trust these people might not read intelligence the way they want to read intelligence to get us into something that maybe we shouldn't be getting into? there is a lot of iran hawks in this group of people. >> i'm independent politically because i generally don't trust anybody. especially in politics. >> we got to know each other back when we were speaking out against -- >> i think we have to hold everybody accountable. there is a basic level of competence that is necessary and the pentagon is supposed to be insulated from politics more than any other institution in our country. i mean, can you imagine if a democrat got elected and they nominated chris hayes to be secretary of defense or somebody from this network? i mean -- >> chris hayes is a very smart man and i would not like to -- >> i'm using him as an example, because the reaction would be overwhelming outrage, if someone went from this network or just about any other network and went

into the secretary of defense role, it would be unimaginable. so this is such a reach that you're seeing pushback from not just moderates, but people on the right who think this is just too far to go. keep in ind mind, we don't know where rfk is going to land, the secretary of veterans afairs, we don't know who they're going to name. this is just the beginning of what i think will be very radical, ridiculous and controversial picks in institutions that are really important. >> we could be getting rfk news soon. i also wonder where tucker carlson might land, if he lands anywhere. >> press secretary? >> paul rieckhoff, good to have you. that phone buzzing, that's chris hayes wanting a word with you. good to see you. coming up next, what donald trump's political comeback means for the war in the middle east. trump's political comeback means for the war in the middle east s throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

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as the conflict in the middle east continues, the u.s. ambassador to lebanon made it a draft truce proposal. president-elect trump has promised to bring peace to the region. what role will his administration play? joining us now, nbc news international correspondent danielle hermanjin. what is the latest out there, danielle? >> reporter: i can tell you that at 11:00 a.m. this morning, the u.s. ambassador to lebanon handed over a truce proposal to the speaker of the parliament here at his residence.

efforts so far have led nowhere as you know and the speaker obviously facilitates and is a conduit for diplomacy with hezbollah. what exactly is in this truce proposal, what are the contents? we still don't know. so far efforts have revolved around u.n. resolution 1701 which, of course, ended the conflict back in 2006, calling for hezbollah fighters to move north of the litani river, 30 miles from the border with israel and called, of course, for israel, rather, to withdraw completely from lebanon, creating this buffer zone. there is talk of this monitoring mechanism in place to enforce this. how exactly this differs from the current u.n. force that is there, we'll have to wait and see. we have put out a request for comment to the political wing of hezbollah, and we are still waiting to hear from them

tonight, katy. >> i'm curious, when you say that it has been submitted to the parliament, hezbollah is the one that is fighting. is there a -- is the parliament says yes, would hezbollah listen? >> reporter: well, hezbollah has to be on board. and we spoke to a member of parliament from hezbollah earlier this week, this was back on tuesday. he said to us that he had received nothing. we also asked him if he knew and what he thought of michael bulos, dr. masad bulos, who is the father-in-law of tiffany trump, and he is lebanese, lebanese-american, who has been instrumental in the campaign with donald trump. this hezbollah mp had no idea who he was, had not heard from him, but we understand or he has declared himself the envoy to lebanon during the trump administration. we'll wait and see. i can tell you the reaction from people here to trump's election

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