nothing runs like a deere™ it's our son, he is always up in our business. it's the verizon 5g home internet i got us. oh... he used to be a competitive gamer but with the higher lag, he can't keep up with his squad. so now we're his “squad”. what are kevin's plans for the fall? he's going to college. out of state, yeah. -yeah in the fall. change of plans, i've decided to stay local. oh excellent! oh that's great! why would i ever leave this? -aw! we will do anything to get him gaming again. you and kevin need to fix this internet situation. heard my name! i swear to god, kevin! -we told you to wait in the car.

everyone in my old squad has xfinity. less lag, better gaming! i'm gonna need to charge you for three people. ♪♪ ♪♪ hi from, everyone. happy friday. 4:00 in new york. you look behind the appointment of a trio of maga personalities, two, three of the most critical cabinet posts in our country, the director of national intelligence, the attorney general, and the u.s. secretary of defense, if you look behind the headlines that have ensued and the chaos that has been the quick reaction from democrats and republicans on capitol hill, now all the swirling questions in newsrooms, around ethics and the confirmation process, what that looks like, a pretty obvious and intentional theme emerges. as tim schneider, author of on

tyranny puts it, quote, taken together, trump's candidates constitute an attempt to wreck the american government. all three of trump's most high machine profile picks, tulsi gabbard, pete hegseth and matt gaetz, are defined publicly both by the things that they have said in the content they have for the role of the departments they are now going to lead and the views that they have that are in stark contrast to many of the republicans who have now been asked to vote to confirm them to lead those agencies. we start with tulsi gabbard, for instance, who said repeatedly that the west is to blame for the war in ukraine. an opinion far out of line with the views of america's bipartisan national security experts. >> kamala harris was in europe a few days before putin invaded ukraine, speaking very clearly and loudly about how ukraine should become a member of nato. this was one of the main

instigators, crossing the red line that russia during putin's reign and before him has been the red line. for any objective minded person, you can understand why they wouldn't want nato missiles sitting in ukraine. >> so, again, whatever you think of that, you have to look at how it squares with the views of out going gop senate leader mitch mcconnell and a sizable chunk of his caucus. >> by assisting ukraine today, america is demonstrating our commitment to the basic prince pams of territorial integrity and national sovereignty, changing the calculus for others considering military aggression and lowering the odds of a far costlier and far more deadly future conflict in the process. >> and then take pete hegseth. in his book he makes it clear he agrees with donald trump, and

donald trump says that our adversaries abroad are not as big of a threat to america as the, quote, enemies within. he writes this, quote, while the post-9/11 generation of patriots spent two it decades fighting enemies abroad, we allowed america's domestic enemies at home to gobble up cultural, political and spiritual territory. leftists stole a lot from us, but we won't let them take this. time for round two. we won't miss this war. end quote. so, what does it mean for someone who sees trump's political critics and is now going to be heading the pentagon adds the real threat for that person to now have command and control of the u.s. military? and then there is the curious case of matt gaetz. a one-man chaos agent who, in the house of representatives, has earned himself near universal contempt and loathing from his own republican colleagues.

david french writes it this way in "the new york times," he was primarily response fortunately dough dee posing the house speaker kevin mccarthy in a fit, and he has alienated house colleagues. he has a reputation for showing colleagues explicit pictures of his sexual partners and he is under house ethics investigation into whether he had sex with an underage girl while a member of congress, end quote. in coming days and weeks republicans are going to be asked to confirm appointees who don't agree with their idealogical views or priorities and who all the republicans know are not up to any of the jobs they have been tapped to do. but none of that is the point, is it? here is how steve bannon reacted to the choice of matt gaetz as a.g. >> matt gaetz is the fiercest of the fierce warriors, the fire brain of fire brands. he is going to hit the

department of justice with a blowtorch. and that blowtorch is a guy named matt gaetz. >> you could say a lot of things about bannon, but at least he says it all outloud, right? he has been saying it for years. trump's picks are a part of this project that bannon has described for years now publicly as the destruction of the administrative state. the fulfillment of a vision bannon has been fighting for for years. here he is making that point earlier today. >> we are going burn some of these institutions down to the ground because you know why? they need to be burned down to the ground. >> that's where we start. some of our favorite reporters and friends. with me, president of the national action network, host of msnbc's "politicsnation," the reverend al sharpton. also joining us former lead investigator for the january 6th select committee tim heatwave fi and joining us remotely, host of

the podcast in politic, msnbc national affairs analyst, john heilemann, and "new york times" investigative reporter mike schmidt is here. john, i start with you. sort of your body of bannon reporting. i think bannon started with this effort, which again was always out in the open, of destroying the administrative state. if i remember correctly, a whiteboard in his west wing office during the short time was in the administration. it may have taken longer to arrive at this, but it seems very intentional that the cabinet picks from trump are meant to divide newsrooms and accepted them chasing their tails to see if the ethics investigation into gaetz is going to break or tulsi gabbard's comments that even sean hannity found offensive are going to get my reaction from the mighty senate republicans, or if hegseth's myriad scandals are -- i mean, it seems that the sum of the reaction to those is

intended to advance the broader project of bannon's. >> right. happy friday, nicolle. if such thing could be said. i think that the first time that steve bannon ever said the phrase, and it actually is the deconstruction of the administrative state, which is the same thing adds the destruction of it, but i think the first time he said it outloud to everybody in the world was in february of 2017 at cpac where he was the trump forces were ascendent at that point. steve was in the white house at that point and he was, i think, interviewed on stage at cpac by reince priebus or was on stage with him. i think priebus was talking to bannon and bannon talked the priorities in trump term. he talked about nationalism in terms of foreign policy and deconstruction of the administrative state. the one thing, steve is not only

saying this outloud for ever, through that -- from the moment they walked in the doors in january of 2017 to now when he was out -- when trump was out of office. he also is someone who is unlike donald trump, an extraordinarily well read and sophisticated thinker. when i say sophisticated, i don't want anything to think i think he is a good thing in terms of some of these thoughts. he is someone who has thought a lot about this stuff. he read his lennon. that's what this is. it's a leninist project. and i think to your point, nicolle, there are a lot of things going on with these. some directed at the media. that's the frame you were putting on it, which it to create chaos in terms of how we cover it. it's willing really importantly these are tests of the republicans in the senate. it is not a coincidence that trump dropped the matt gaetz announcement to basically break up john thune's welcome party,

victory party as having won as majority leader on the republican senate side. it was like dropping a turd in his punchbowl at the party and sort of saying, okay, this is the most unacceptable or among the most unacceptable people you could ever put in this job. now, mr. thune, pass him, please. and unlike the leadership vote, which is a secret vote, trump did not want john thune to be leader. he would have rather had rick scott or john cornyn. every republican senator is facing the same dynamic they faced every other time in trump's political history, which is do what i say or i will bring the wrath of maga town on you. and i think even in the negotiation, it's back and forth on the question of recess appointments. he is testing the senate and he is trying to make it clear that either you will be my rubber stamp willingly or you will be my rubber stamp because i force you to pb be my rubber stamp, take away advice and consent

from the senate. you saw john thune with bret baier on fox news. he said i would rather to the normal way, but the last words out of his mouth were, nothing is off the table, meaning doing these things by recess appointment is on the table and you already see a very familiar dynamic where donald trump may end up incredibly, i mean just mind bogglingly getting his way on these nominations. >> let me read you a little bit more from tim schneideren to the rule of law. a modern democratic state depends upon the rule of law. before anything else is possible, we have to endorse the principle that we are all governed by law and that our institutions are grounded in law. this enables a functional government of a specific sort, in which leaders can be regularly repoliced by elections. it allows us to live as free individuals within a set of rules that we can alter together. the rule of law depends on people, people who fwleefb in the spirit of law. maerg the proposed attorney

general is the opposite of such a person. it is not just that he flouts the law himself spectacularly and disgustingly. he embodies lawlessness and can be counted on to abuse the law to pursue trump's political opponents. . end of the rule of law is an estengs essential component of a regime change. to underscore the point, here's how a republican former house member now senator describes matt gaetz's conduct, and i play this because it's also been revealed today that speaker mike johnson doesn't plan to release the ethics report into matt gaetz. but a lot of the conduct is known. this is a republican senator. >> there is a reason why no one in the conference came to defend him, because we had all seen the videos he was showing on the house floor that all of us walked away of the girls he slept with. he bragged about how he crush ed

medicine and chase it with energy drinks so he could go all night. >> so, it's important because to john heilemann's point, this is about humiliating the senate republicans, and either making them confirm that guy, who in the telling of another republican would show videos on the house floor of all the girls he slept with, brag about how he crushed e.d. medicine and chase with an energy drink to go all night, end quote. it's about making him confirm them or taking away all their power and confirming him without them in a recess appointment. what's the impact on that on the rule of law? >> evisceration of the rule of law. it shows that the paradigm in the country shifted from a right versus left paradigm to an inside or outside paradigm. the republican voices have been very strongly critical of matt gaetz. his own caucus apparently glad to see him go. nonetheless, he is nominated as

attorney general. it shows again that the goal so deconstruction, evisceration of the rule of law. this notion that there is some sort of institutional washington that's beyond party but sort of incumbency, those that are in charge versus everyone else and the president-elect positioning himself on side of everyone else, that's a new ball game. again, we don't agree on policy or the right versus the left. inside or outside has the potential as a conflict to erode institutions like the rule of law. >> so what happens? are you afraid that they will come looking for you because of your role in the january 6th hearings? >> i think there is no question that asking questions or launching investigations even meritless ones has consequences. absolutely it could be expensive and time consuming and difficult for people who have done absolutely nothing wrong but exercise the authority that has been given them through official channels would have to go through those investigations.

i am not worried ultimately on criminal or other exposure. i am worried about inconvenience and expense and intim dalgs by the launching of those kinds of investigations. >> mike, you have done some incredible reporting on trump's ambitions in his first term. to use the justice department, to retaliate against his political enemies, and you chronicled the roadblocks that he encountered. how does gaetz and if we presume another ally at the fbi, how do they eradicate those hurdles? >> oh, trump basically ran into two problems with weaponizing the justice department. one was having an attorney general that would go along with what he wanted. as bill barr writes in his book, trump is complaining to him in december of 2020 that he never prosecuted jim comey. that was something that trump tried to do throughout his

entire presidency. it was something that trump tried to do himself in 2008. he wanted to prosecute comey himself, even though trump is not a prosecutor. so that was the first roadblock. the second roadblock that they ran into was the court. in that case, they ran into the courts in the case of andy mccabe. the former deputy fbi director was under investigation. they took his case to a grand jury and the grand jury came back and said they weren't going to indict him. was a roadblock. there were no charges to be brought mccabe because of that. the first with gaetz at the top of the justice department, that roadblock that barr created on the issue of comey would be gone. you know, i don't think i'm taking too many leaps here to say that matt gaetz is someone who would go along with exactly what donald trump wanted. that is essentially what matt

gaetz's brand is. i was reading back some of the stories that we had done about the investigations into gaetz, and i saw that the way that trump learned, first talked to gaetz, he saw him on fox news in late 2017, railing against the mueller investigation, and he called him and said, you know, that he needed warriors or, you know, something of that sort to help him in his efforts and that's exactly what gaetz did. so, i think what you may see, which would be different, is more interaction between the justice department, the executive branch, and the judicial branch where the justice department would try to do things, and the courts would be forced to really weigh in and determine whether there is merit to what the department is doing. and we saw that in the andy mccabe case. in most cases the investigations that trump wanted were sort of never really got out the door at the justice department.

they never really got to charges. there were just investigations. and to tim's point, there is an enormous amount that can be done on the investigative front if the department wants to investigate something or someone. and they are not a lot of checks on that in many ways. they can interview people. they can send out subpoenas if they want to get a search warrant, they have to go to the courts. but i think you would see here more a clash of the branches. you would see the justice department trying to do things and the judicial branch being forced to come and weigh in and say whether they thought it was okay or not. >> i think the john durham investigation may prove instructive, that he was sort of a u.s. attorney's office within the justice department, green lit by bill barr, had free rein over all sorts of people. actually brought two cases to trial and lost both of them. i want to pick up that thread. i have to sneak in break.

also ahead for us, as has been evident all week, matt gaetz is not the only cabinet pick that many worry will want to blow up the agency and the professionals who work in it. once they lead it. pentagon chief nominee pete hegseth, we will be getting a closer look, including his thoughts on sigh t diversified u.s. military. what the new reporting reveals. later, more on trump's pick to lead the nation's health agency and the conspiracies he has been pedaling for years, the ones raising the most alarm among medical experts when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. er a quick break. don't go anywhere. (vo) red lobsters across the nation got a new menu celebration. look! ♪ we got lobster. pasta. ♪ ♪ crab. bacon. ♪ ♪ shrimp for the takin' ♪ ♪ 500 locations! ♪ ♪ seven new creations ♪

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are true, but the washington times has just reported some pretty compelling evidence from a facial recognition company showing that some of the people who breached the capitol today were not trump supporters. they were masquerading as trump supporters and were members of the violent terrorist group antifa. we should seek to build america up, not tear her down, and destroy her. and i am sure glad that at least for one day i didn't hear my democrat colleagues call to defund the police. >> matt gaetz on january 7th. i don't know about that washington "times" story. there was never any evidence or facts to suggest that facial recognition showed that none of the people were trump supporters as matt gaetz said. that they were, quote, masquerading as trump supporters and were members of a stri lent

terrorist group antifa. your thoughts about the consequences of having someone like that in charge of the department of justice? >> first of all, let's remember that as they -- you played the tape of gaetz saying it might have been antifa, quoting from the washington times. but let's fast forward. donald trump said that they are hostages and that they were freedom fighters and he is going to give -- pardon them. so which one are we doing? blaming it on some undefined terrorist group on the left, or are they fighters and patriots that should be pardoned? and i think that's what's most disturbing, is the political schizophrenia of maga, because it really is whatever delusions the leader has in any given day. one minute everybody's bad. the next minute they are heroes.

and you take someone, when donald trump had the opportunity to prove us all wrong, that he was not this narcissist and he was not trying to be an autocrat, he comes with three or four nominations to prove he is exactly that. i mean, who would nominate someone what was 48 hours away from a congressional ethics committee releasing all kind of allegations? who would nominate them if they are trying to reassure the country? who would nominate someone like tulsi gabbard or the defense secretary other than i'm going to stick it in your face because i am exactly what people said i am going to be, an autocrat, do it my way. and i think we should buckle down for a rough ride. but i think we will end up riding this out because i don't think the public will stand by and allow him to just shatter all of the progress that has been made.

>> i think this is the only tension at this point, right. john heilemann, i mean, the tension won't be around whether a normal hold, right, gone. that's like so 2016, right? the question will be around whether the political price trump pays -- he is rolling the dice that matt gaetz is going to be able to use the department for retribution and to continue to push crime rates down. they are lower now than when trump was there. he certainly didn't run on raising the levels of crime in the country. he is also rolling the dice on a guy until a year a ago was under criminal investigation himself, that matt gaetz will run the department of justice, i don't know, sex trafficking cases. he is rolling the dice on the thing that most animated support for him and growth -- he won the popular vote because more people wanted him than vice president kamala harris on the issue of immigration. the department of justice has the largest role in that other

than dhs, which houses i.c.e. and border patrol agencies. it's a gamble that trump's retribution is so complete he is willing to sacrifice his political prowess on the things that count for the most numbers of votes for him. >> right. and i think one of the things that you have commendably been someone who always said we had to take trump at his word. if he said he was gonna do it, he was gonna do it. i have been in the camp, he is telling you what he is going to do. people think trump might do it, might not do it. most of the time, and i think mike schmidt has done a lot of reporting that bears this out, most of the time when he says he is going to do something, he tries to do it. there have been it guardrails that prevented him in the past. he sometimes gets distracted, wanders off. often in the past he has been too incompetent things he wanted to do. he wants to do those things. the reality is for a lot of

people who voted for him, there are a lot of people who voted for trump, didn't take him seriously or didn't know that part of this was part of -- the reltbution agenda, wouldn't have expected matt gaetz. the reason i point that out, the varying levels of knowledge within the 70 some odd million votes donald trump got, i think most americans know that donald trump says that there is going to be a mass deportation of illegal immigrants in the country out of the country. i think they know that. do they really -- and a lot of them i think wrongly, wrongly for the reasons i just said, a lot of them think that some the more extreme things he won't do. to your point, if he starts to do them now, he is in a position of, for the first time, real political vulnerability. you have a republican senate, republican house, and donald trump in the white house. there is no one to blame now if things go wrong. you can't talk about thousand how the deep state stopped you

from doing what you a wanted to do because they are going to tear down the deep state. can't talk about how democrats thwarted his ambitions. there is no -- the democrats are in the minority. the question of what the political accountability for him, it's the only accountability. i don't know how much he cares. to rev's point, i think the reason he doesn't think he -- not only does not want to reassure people, he doesn't think he has to. and he is not wrong about one thing here. he is looking at the situation and saying i got more votes than i got either of the other two times i ran. my behavior was worse. the evidence against me was larger. but this time i got a majority of the votes. i have a mandate and i said a lot of stuff on the campaign trail and so i can say, hey, i haven't hidden the ball here. i think he thinks that this is what his voters want. and i hope he is wrong. >> mike schmidt, when you look at the way mechanically he

sought to punishis ep meece, it was to have doj confer with jeff berman, who was the u.s. attorney, the head of sdny. trump yesterday got lost in some of the fog machine. but he made an appointment to sdny. is that a retribution lawyer in trump's mind? >> i think jake clayton is someone who is seen as a bit more mainstream compared to some of the other people that trump has considered for the -- for, like gaetz, i think, you know, if you talk to conservative lawyers would say jake clayton is someone they respect. what that means, i have no idea. but to what john heilemann was saying before about what trump says and what trump is going to do, a good example of that would happen in the first term, whether it was about the mueller

investigation or even after he left office and we were working on the january 6th reporting. we would go out and we would do this reporting and find out that he had done or said something in private that was, you know, remarkable or notable. and then we would look and he would have tweeted it a couple of months earlier or said it publicly. and that was -- you know, as a reporter, you know, you are always looking for the private anecdote to reveal larger truths about what's going on. and time and time again that we would do that, we would find that he just said the same thing publicly. then that kind of left us unsure of what to do. so, in terms of what he says and what he does, there is a fair amount of transparency to that. not what people think of as transparency, but transparency in his entensions and

dezbliefrmts the thing that we were never able to measure and we will probably never be able to measure is that ten of these people that he wanted investigated were investigated. and he pushed ford them -- for this to happen in the first term. how much of that was the institutions of the executive branch listening to what he said publicly and following along and going along with that, because that's what he was saying publicly. he was using a unique type of power where he would publicly put the pressure on about these individuals while also privately doing that while these people were afraid they were going to be fired. and it was this unique type of use of power and it's very hard to unravel it and understand it, but a lot of times the institutions did exactly what he wanted. >> and now i guess the 2.0 version is that there is no need to tweet it and then read it and the institution to do any

interpreting. these people are going to be yucking it up at mar-a-lago -- i mean, these are his -- this is his -- >> i think that the pace of it took a longer time in the first term. it takes him some time to sort of figure out how to pull the levers. and it's only until 2018, you know, that he says he wants to prosecute -- it's only the final weeks of the presidency where he really figures out sort of the ways that he could push the bounds beyond what he had done earlier in his time in office. >> mike, thank you for starting us off. ahead for us, pete hegseth in pete hegseth's own words on tv and in his writings on what he really wants to do to the u.s. military if and when he heads to the department of defense. much more ahead. don't go anywhere. help you understand how to get the most from medicare. if you're eligible for medicare, it's a good idea

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with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ there he is. wherever i go they always ask “where's waldo?” ah, you found me. never “who's waldo?” sometimes it takes someone who really knows you to make you feel seen. gifts that say i get you. etsy has it. for the trump transition team. but he is not alone. the shock of these selections means in terms of betting, if there is to be any, the general public is just now beginning to catch up on the reporting that is available in the media about these folks. the result, increasingly clear picture of exactly who lawmakers

are going to be asked to confirm. the most important positions in the u.s. government. take pete hegseth, for instance. the fox news host who might be our next secretary ef defense. in response to a number of media inquiries, monterey california released information from a 2017 police report confirming a sexual assault investigation into hegseth. and an incident that involved bruises to someone's right thigh. to be clear, no charges were filed. the trump campaign's statement on the matter reads in part, quote, mr. hegseth has vigorously denied any and all accusations and no charges were filed. end quote. in a phone interview with nbc news, hegseth's attorney said this. quote, the police statement speaks for itself. he was cleared. there is not much more than i could say. it didn't happen, end quote. but all that aside, just take what hegseth has said in public, because there is plenty. following a review of what he has written, "the washington post" today published, it found

hegseth, quote, forcefully argued steps to incorporate women and transgender personnel across the military are eroding u.s. security and that you islam is threatening to overtake america and should be countered by a new crew. may be shocking but not surprise interesting a person who said similar things on national television. >> depending, our diversity is our strength. what a bunch of garbage. we shouldn't have im women in combat roles. it has made fighting more complicated. >> the idea that democrats are not -- >> real quick -- >> can you answer the question? did donald trump lose the election in 2020? >> i'm not -- don't -- >> when you import the third world, you get third world hierarchy values and chaos. vets groups, encourage to apply for every benefit they can get.

a lot of groups are convincing vets to get, take more from the system as opposed to just what you need for the service you gave. i don't think i washed my hands for ten years. >> really? >> i don't really wash my hands. >> help a me. everyone's back. rev? >> if he hasn't wash his hands for ten years, i don't know if i want to see him having lunch at the pentagon with people. but i think that it is again very frightening to see that this kind of person with these kinds of views, i mean, anti-women and proud of it. anti-muslim and proud of it. and we're going to put him over the defense of all of the country. so women being in the military hasn't improved the military, but you trust us to defend all women and men. i mean, how outrageous is that? this this is 2024. and rather than somebody like

that being isolated as someone who didn't come into the 21st century, we will make him the secretary of defense. by the way, succeed the first and only black secretary of defense. that's the irony of this. that is how donald trump thinks. >> you know, i, again, i mean, john heilemann, the pentagon is the crown jewel, not just of the u.s. government. i'd say along with the rule of law and our role in gathering and sort of coordinating intelligence to protect national security, ours and that of our allies, right, those are like the three jewels of the u.s. government. and trump could pick whoever he wants, and it's in some ways the most obvious choice along to with gaetz. but he can't afford to have the military not like this pick. and there are a lot of women in the military. the military, i believe, i know it's the most diverse federal work force.

it might be the most diverse work force in the country. and trump can't have the military tear itself apart. amy mcgrath said it milley and mcchrystal and kelly are court martialed, it would tear the pentagon apart, tear the military apart. what is your sense of how much of pete hegseth will become the military and how much of this is a figurehead? >> boy, there is a lot to say. first of all, i happened to look this up yesterday because i was curious. 2.8 million people work at the -- for the united states department of defense. 2.8 million people. largest work force in the united states and one of the largest in the world. i am not sure what's bigger in the world. but i do know it's that number. it's an extraordinarining.

$864 billion a year budget. that's the stuff that we know. that doesn't include the black budget stuff that makes the budget of the pentagon essentially unlimited. the managerial task is enormous. if you ask the question and you want to talk about pete hegseth in terms of is he qualified to run the defense department, well, the answer is, obviously, no. it's one of the most -- i mean, for generations it's seen as the hardest cabinet position. it is, you know, a monstrous city in ways. it's so enormous and it kills people, causes people to have nervous breakdowns. historically that's true. so he, obviously, not qualified. he is not qualified to run it. he is qualified to ruin it. and that is, to go back to the first topic, deconstruction of the administrative state. what does that mean?

it might be the right prism for us as a democracy, but not if you are evaluating why does donald trump pick this person? he is not interested in running these agencies well. in isn't stewardship. can i pick someone qualified? the job that they are qualified for is to wreck those institutions, and your question i think is crucial because the american military is the most respected, most revered. i am talking about empirically, of any institution in america. also one of the most extraordinary institutions for social mobility for class mixing, for generations of discriminating against non-white americans who used the military a way to move into the middle class. a social mobility engine. and i think that part of the deal here is that there is a prood idealogical agenda to tear down everything that works about the government. there is also the fact that trump does not want america to have the role in the world that a pentagon that big is meant

for. and i think you are seeing things that i -- again, to go back to the question about political accountability. i don't think people who voted for donald trump understand any of that. >> i let's pick this up on the other side. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. nywhere. we'll be right back. let me set the record straight. are people born wicked? or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? oh! -ah! [ laughter ] no need to respond. that was rhetorical. hm, hmm. the biggest companies deliver an exceptional customer experience. what makes it possible? 5g solutions from t-mobile for business. las vegas grand prix chose t-mobile to fuel advanced coverage for over 300,000 race fans and event staff.

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takmore laughs.em. more hang outs. yeah, more of all of this stuff. but getting older also means more risk of serious flu, covid-19, and rsv. vaccines lower your risk, so you can keep doing more. picking up where john left off. again, trump is understandably

brazen. maybe not understandably brazen. trump is trump. he has the wind in the back of his victory. he also controls the house and senate. trump can't do the trumpiest things he wants to do in two years he loses the house and senate. if you destroy the military, if you have a mass exodus and use the military to do awful un-american things, turn them on american citizens, you need the military to function. tell me where you think sort of the pressure points are within this appointment. >> i think there is a great chance that both justice and defense given the leaders that potentially will be imposed on them, you could see an exodus, a lot of people that, as you said, nicolle, do the work that investigate gang offenses and national security offenses at justice. and do all of the important work around the world that the u.s. military does who are it dishe willlutioned with their leadership or they lose or

leave. there is a huge opportunity cost of all of the things that won't get done. the things that the president-elect has run on doing. being tough on crime and eliminating violence on our city streets. that take resources and people. if you are alienating the people that do that work, both with respect to national security and the military and law enforcement and justice, you are not fulfilling those goals. it's one thing to talk about blowing up the system and putting in place people that are going to, as bannon says, you know, blow up these deep state institutions. but the cost of that is all the stuff that we like or that he likes that they are doing that won't get done because people leave. >> i mean, it seems that this is going to be a real story of trump versus trump. and trump, you know, presidents have a lot of power, but trump would benefit from remaining popular, right. that's how he can do more of his trumpy stuff and get away with more. the fastest way to lose power is

to prove to the american people that you are incompetent. >> i think that's why he is fighting these conflicting impulses of his on one side, revenge, on the other side, i want to be the greatest president in the history of the country and everybody marvels at me. he also has to worry about his businesses. that's not -- let's not forget he took a big hit with his businesses and a lot of what he will do in the next four years is try to rebuild his businesses and cut deals. and i think we've got to watch that. so -- and you have to watch the republicans that are going to be concerned. they have a midterm coming. they got wiped up in the midterm in the first four years. they have to look at do they let him break up what this whole question of confirming his nominees. do they let him take away their power? how do they run again in the midterms? some will be up for election or at least want the majority of the houses, the senate and

house, or do they give it to the democrats in a landslide? then what happens? >> last word? >> name a time just on the rev's last point, a time in the whole of the trump era when a congressional republican stood up to donald trump except for liz cheney. >> none. no times. that's why i refuse to cover -- we did not lead with the confirmation battle. there will be no battle. with whom? >> i know. >> this is the cabinet. i'm with you, brother. >> i totally agree. there is no literally -- in a lot of cases, the past is the present is the future. there is just no reason to think that these things are not going to go through. i hope in a lot of cases they don't. but there is no reason to think that. >> i think the better data point is how long people last. in a recess appointment, it's longer than the vast majority of any of his past cabinet officials served.

so we'll keep an eye on that. john heilemann, tim hafey, rev, thank you for spending feels like a long week, the end of the first week of perhaps the rest of our lives. another break. we'll be right back. but i've always felt most comfortable up here, with the folks that made me who i am. i'm right at home, out here on the land. and i'm in my lane on the shoulder of the interstate. because this is where i come from. i've been showing up here for nearly 200 years. and i can't wait to see what's next. hats off to the future. nothing runs like a deere™

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>> i just looked at the news report, people like you, bobby. don't get too popular, bobby. you know, you have reached about the level. we want you to come up with things and ideas and what you've been talking about for a long time and i think you are going to do some unbelievable things, nobody is going to be able to do it like you.>> that might be true, hello again everybody, among the flood of nominations, donald trump has made for his cabinet, his choice of an anti-vaccine activists, robert f kennedy junior to lead the department of health and human services is

causing grave worry. he has spread dangerous conspiracy theories, if he is confirmed to the position, he will oversee 13 positions within hhs, chief among them, the cdc, fda, nih and the agency that oversees medicare and medicaid. public trust in our health systems is of utmost importance, in terms of the government's ability to help keep people safe, yet the man from past selected to lead hhs is one who is undermining trust in science and medical expertise, the washington post dove into 10 of the specific conspiracy theories and false claims rfk junior has pushed. he has falsely claimed vaccines are linked to autism, he promotes raw milk, stem cells and other controversial or debunked medical treatments, he

incorrectly suggest aids may not be caused by hiv and he has falsely linked antidepressants to mass shootings, again, to reiterate, this is the man who could soon be running our nation's health agencies. he will be making decisions about whether or not to approve drugs or medical devices and vaccines. he will make decisions about regulating hospitals, physicians and other healthcare providers and he will steer many other initiatives affecting food and medicine. the day after the election, this is what kennedy told our colleague, vaughn hillyard . >> you have been a crusader on questioning vaccines, are there specific vaccines that you would seek to take off the market?>> i'm not going to take away anybody's vaccines, i have never been anti-vaccine. >> you will not take any vaccine that is currently on

the market? >> if vaccines are working for somebody, i'm not going to take them away. >> we don't know exactly what secretary kennedy will do what we can look to history as a guide. in 2019, rfk junior visited the island of samoa where he spread his suspicions about vaccines, a feeling he said the prime minister shared with him. the island at the time was suffering from a measles outbreak after it stopped vaccinations following the death of two before, it was later discovered that the infants died due to the doctors mixing up their vaccines, not because the measles vaccine had harmed them. during the time in samoa where they paused all vaccinations, 83 people died, many of them children. meanwhile, the world health organization announced that last year, cases of measles rose 20% from the prior year due to inadequate immunization coverage, that is where we

start with some of our favorite experts, former white house covid-19 response coordinator under president biden and the dean of brown university school of public health. also joining us, republican congressman, david jolly is here, plus special correspondent for abc studios, and at the table, democratic strategist and professor at columbia university, msnbc political analyst. your reaction to rfk junior to hhs? >> thank you for having me back, this is an extraordinarily bad choice. as you laid out, this is not just about vaccines, this is about medicare and what is medicare going to cover and what kind of health insurance are americans going to have because hhs has profound effects on those and what we know is that when we have used evidence and science and analysis to make those decisions, americans are better off, robert kennedy has been

piling in conspiracy theories that aren't antithetical to good evidence in science and if he brings that to a whole host of policy decisions, it will affect the health of every american alive and that obviously is a very concerning scenario.>> let me show you, the thing with vaccines isn't just do they exist, you know, he said i won't take them from anyone, vaccines and a vaccine schedule works because you trust the doctor who prescribes them and when your child is very young, there are a lot of them. so, even thinking well, i don't know if i need all of them and under vaccinating a child, or someone elderly or senior is also a risk. let me play his own messaging on vaccines when pressed by

cnn. >> over the summer, you said there's no vaccine that is safe and effective, do you still believe that?>> i never said that.>> media has been calling you an anti-vaxxer and you said you are not anti-vaccine, you are pro-safe vaccine, difficult question, can you name any vaccines that you think are good? >> some of the virus vaccines are probably, there are more problems solved that they are causing, there's no vaccine that is safe and effective. under the 72 vaccines. >> again, if you are rooting for him to make sense, no sense is made but what i graphed was what he said, what i was saying

is that none of the 72 vaccines have ever been tested. i mean, what is the concern about what people will not do about doctor recommended vaccines? >> first of all, let's be very clear, every vaccine that has been authorized or approved, it has to go through them, it has to, that is how it works. you can look at the data, there's literally hundreds of thousands of people who have been in clinical trials and when he just says things like that, unless people are going to go and look at the fda, people are going to start wondering, is it going to be an issue? and we know as we saw in samoa, the effects of that which is kids will be under vaccinated, kids used to die in extraordinary numbers from measles and polio, that doesn't happen anymore. and i have no interest in going back to that time.

>> dr. jha , there's also practical implications, burning it all down, which is what people are talking about, let me show you rfk in his own words about getting rid of departments.>> would that mean clearing out the top level federal service workers that are currently at the fda? >> in some categories.>> what does that look like?>> in some categories, there are departments that have to go.>> what does that mean for the public?>> the fda has a very important role to play in terms of safety, you can get outbreaks of e. coli and hysteria and all sorts of diseases, it is very important that we have food safety regulations, if you want to strengthen them, great, let's talk about that.

he has talked about a revolving door, the biden administration putting in very tough rules, i can't lobby the government on whole institutions, if you want to make those stronger, great. getting rid of the entire department, i don't know how that makes america healthier by doing that. he says things that sound good on a bumper sticker when you dig a little deeper and you realize, a lot of his policy ideas are catastrophic.>> the interesting thing about the kennedy-trump alliance is that kennedy was up for grabs, he calls the harris campaign and the trump campaign in the same week and trump basically picks up. so it's about affinity, maybe at this point it is. maybe it has become that.

but, in the end, this was a political partnership and i wonder, do you think trump knows that he is pro-choice, do you think he cares? where do you think -- the very public and the crusade since the pandemic, where do those meet up? >> mike pence is coming out against the kennedy nomination because of the issue of reproductive freedom and abortion because kennedy is pro- choice so we will see if there are rumblings, i think he showed the cycle he is willing to ignore the pro-life movement, so i don't think that matters too much, and i know you were talking in the last segment on this, history is a little bit of the present and the future on this one because it was just a few years ago when we saw what the republican party did to anthony fauci during the pandemic, at a time

you would have thought we would have suspended this motion of alternate facts and relied on science and scientists around the world, the republican party decided to demolish expertise in this space. when you hear kennedy a pint about vaccines and when donald trump says kennedy has these ideas, now it's just these opinions of laypeople like joe rogan and kennedy and donald trump and what we saw with the experiment in florida where desantis and his surgeon general decided to ignore it, 80,000 people died of it. most people will not get their news from their physician either because of lack of access to one or simply that is not the universe in which they get their information, they are more likely to get information from donald trump, the people around him, and the people he has chosen to put in leadership and that undermines our public health in many ways. what is so unsettling about

this, even without a pandemic, it feels like we are about to repeat the pandemic we just suffered and the irresponsible voices from the trump world.>> we have talked about the pentagon pick and the tulsi gabbard pick, but one of the basic measures of any visiting head of state is about the population and how does the population take care of itself, you know, the idea of putting someone known the world over because of his famous name but also because of its causes, which are anti-fax and to be really skeptical of science, what is the view from around the world? >> it has been interesting, obviously the kennedy name is known everywhere, there's the assumption that kennedy is more like his father and like his uncle and when people dig deeper, they immediately get to

the anti-vax stuff, in some ways, he's talking about healthier eating, more exercise for americans , i think a lot of people around the world think they need that, a lot of democrats have been championing those causes as well. but, when you compare vaccines to the holocaust which he has done in the past, and the covid vaccine which so many people around the world have taken and have relied upon to save their lives, is the most dangerous vaccine ever produced, then that is alarming. americans are unhealthy, they don't get the measles vaccine, they go on vacation to mexico or europe, they risk taking those problems with them as well, so i think there is a global interest in america being healthy. there were moments in the first few days of donald trump announcing his picks for his cabinet where i think there was

marco rubio, and people thought okay, so far, so good. then you get into what is broadly seen as more crazy land by many people watching america, and bobby kennedy falls into that bracket.>> and that first . is really important because we talk about permission structures, the door they are going to use to get to where they want to be is by saying we are going to take on big pharma and big food, that is the door. once that door is opened, then there is that permission structure to believe and support anything that comes after that. as everybody has said, when you dig deeper, consider the fact that in project 2025, they have erased any agency having to do with equity, if you are talking about any serious health issue or even another pandemic, what

that suggests to me is that there's no intentionality on the part of the federal government including hhs and kennedy to go and address communities that are going to be most disadvantaged or vulnerable on any range of healthcare issues. if you remember during the pandemic, there was specific campaigns at the state and local level to make sure people of color for example were getting vaccinated, so he will say i'm not going to take anybody away from these but he's not going to encourage you to do it. in situations whether it is a vaccine or any other type of screening, if, again, going back to questions in communities that are the most vulnerable, it's almost like you are on your own.>> i think this idea, dr. jha that we will be fine, you can just go to your pediatrician, leaves out a lot of people who get their healthcare from the emergency room. not everyone has multiple dots

in the constellation of expertise from which to get their medical advice and, what president biden can do, what can information pipelines be available to the public? >> this is going to be an enormously difficult time, first of all, as the hhs secretary, he is going to determine whether vaccines get covered by health insurance or not, for all of us, not just for people who depend on the federal government, he's going to make determinations about when women can get mammograms covered, those are his powers to make. there is a very broad effect here that everyone is going to worry about. advocates in america get their vaccines through the childhood vaccination program that is run by the federal government, run by the cdc. is he going to continue that

program? if not, half the kids are going to lose access to measles and polio vaccines so this could get pretty ugly, pretty fast if he acts on his intentions and approaches. he's going to make it much harder, obviously poor people, people who are disadvantaged are going to suffer much more, but all of us will be much worse off for it.>> dr. jha, we are going to need you, stay close. there is much more to get to as health officials sound the alarm about a man who has made a career spreading debunked conspiracies on public health and the great danger we could all be facing because of it. later, why elon musk is apparently conducting shadow diplomacy even before donald trump is sworn into office, we will unpack the startling reporting in the new york times about why he is meeting with a top diplomat from iran.

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come with me to meet the wizard. why couldn't possibly. this is your moment. i'm coming. if you think that's something to see, wait til you see this. ♪ ♪ you're good. -very good. >> they can go get a wealth of illegal drugs and opiates, all of the psychiatric drugs that they want to, then they will need ssri's to get off adderall, and spend as much time as they need, three or four years if they need it, to reconnect with communities.

>> rfk is going to create wellness farms where people can spend as much time as they want, to learn to get re- parented. it sounds amazing, it sounds like the kind of thing you could say on a podcast, it sounds like something he is going to try to do in government is nonsensical. what do you make of the way his commitment, the wellness farms are to get people off antidepressants and things that deal with adhd and it is part of the school of thought touted on the right, some of the covid crusading of people like rfk by joe rogan, and other remedies, but to the extreme, these folks also see medicine as vital in treating mental health conditions, what do you make about this solve and what might

make a culture of shame and inhibit access to much-needed medicine? >> the war on medicine it sounds like he's about to launch, what is so concerning about this is we are seeing someone who tends to be an activist hhs secretary, you typically don't see that, a lot of cabinet secretaries are hired for their executive experience or because they are good administrators, sure they have some subject matter appreciation, maybe they worked on the hill but essentially they are administrators of an agency full of experts or career policy leaders on those issues, and their job is to steer the contours of the department towards better outcomes. he's saying i know the outcome i want, so i'm going to direct the agency to deliver that outcome to me. the problem is, he's not an expert in the field and this is the concern, i used to say during covid when people would get their medical advice from joe rogan, i don't take my card

to my accountant to try to fix it and i don't take my taxes to my auto mechanic to file those with the irs because i want somebody who knows how to address the issues. and the fear is, responsible leaders, with the biden administration being a perfect example, it amplifies the experts, reach communities that need that information so they achieve the effective outcomes in line with science. now we are seeing from the right is this abandonment of expertise and this elevation of voices that are counterculture voices that have nothing to do with the science itself and unfortunately, many people will get their science from kennedy and others instead of from their doctors and that is the underlying danger in this one.>> i keep thinking in all the news cycle since the election about how so much of what we are talking about is the symptom, not the cause.

and kennedy, the hhs and vaccine skepticism and trump associating with rfk being politically additive, not detrimental, is a symptom. the cause is this complete bifurcation is understating it, but complete fragmenting of information and trust. and if you had trust in institutions and science, the politician who sided with rfk would have suffered politically. that didn't happen, the people who ended up with rfk, but the trump-kennedy message is the one that prevailed in november and i keep asking questions as a mom, how am i going to make sure i get the right information about vaccines? but, i wonder, as a person in the information field, how do we make this reporting about science and undeniable facts,

credible to more people so they are not susceptible to quackery?>> especially when you know, we started by talking about that piece in the washington post that outlines the various things that kennedy has said that are not fact. most people are not getting their information from the washington post, they are getting it from what they listen to, this is populism to some extent, it is anti- establishment, anti-expertise, whether it is around economics or medicine, it has thrived over the last 10 years, this idea that experts don't want us to listen to, you should listen to the people, or two different sources of information. that is the best place to get your information because it reflects the views and the vibes of the people around you. i think all we can do is try to point out the facts and keep

pointing out the facts. as a parent, this is going to be a failure because we know already there are people who are skeptical about these vaccines, it took a long time for the link between measles and autism which i'm afraid came out of the uk. it took a long time and that got into the system and it was wrong but it took a long time for it to be really debunked by physicians, people in positions of authority and by news media generally. and people are going to hear this information, we know that. one of the biggest problems we have at the moment is the ecosystem that takes people from being disgruntled about the price of eggs to far right podcasts and websites that get them down the rabbit hole. and all we can do is just keep pointing out and showing our receipts, showing our transparency, this is how we know what the facts are, having doctors on the program who can

tell us exactly what is fact and fiction. and we have to keep doing that even more than we have done up until now.>> the wellness space is intriguing, and a lot of stuff, the visuals of rfk doing push-ups without his shirt on, sort of the future of his campaign, but this whole idea that people are looking for wellness and fitness information, michelle obama was ridiculed for growing vegetables at the white house and trying to get people to eat healthier and to move more. and i wonder how much you think it's just all tribal, if a maga person tells me to do it, i will do it.>> i'm going to give you this thing to look at that opens the door and i'm going to push my truth and their truth into it, we know that he has a very tricky, if existent at all

relationship with actual science. and as a colleague said to me earlier today, the big concern is that there is still trump- ism in there, but with medicaid, maybe they institute a work requirement which is very problematic, there's also concerns about the priorities, what kind of healthcare are we focused on? maybe we should have a wellness component but think of the $35 billion that is available to do scientific research on everything from heart disease and cancer, researchers, colleges, universities, to be able to advance our healthcare. that is in jeopardy. when you think about that conflicting information, that misinformation, trump's statement is very telling, you are popular, but don't get bigger than i am and that suggest to me that we are

probably going to spend a lot of time looking at a lot of conflicting and chaotic information coming out of, with respect to healthcare in this country and folks are going to be driven back to podcasts and the internet to get information on what is happening and that is where it is so dangerous.>> elon musk seems to be getting a bigger portfolio within trump world, there is brand-new reporting by the new york times that he met with the top ambassador from iran, what it says about his role going forward. we will bring you that reporting next. reporting next the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin, with real honey & elderberry. on chewy, save up to 40% on holiday gifts for your pet. like their favorite treats, toys and food. the best presents. at the best prices. for the best pets. for low prices

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♪♪ >> elon musk, what a job he does, and he happens to be a really good guy. he likes this place, i can't get him out of here, he likes this place. i asked, what do you do best, and we were not able to figure it out but it is a lot of things.>> there's so much, right? so much to ponder and learn about donald trump and elon musk and their plans together, musk is seemingly a permanent guest at his residence since the election with a made-up role in a made-up department and a real seat at the table for administration job interviews and foreign leader

calls. and the new york times is reporting that elon musk met in person with iran's u.n. ambassador, in a meeting that lasted more than one hour at a secret location in new york, that two officials described as a discussion of how to diffuse tensions between iran and the u.s. and on which he imposed economic sanctions in his first term and order the killing of a top general, but also about why in the world elon musk is participating in any of it, and right now. according to the new york times, one of the officials said musk requested the meeting that the iranians described as positive and good news, the washington post put it this way. musk has emerged somewhere between unofficial copresident and first buddy, as he put it in an ex-post, generally

becoming as ubiquitous at mar-a- lago as the club's gilded inlay. joining us now, john hudson, my question for you, has the world adjusted to this co-presidency and what are you learning from adversaries about how they see the role of elon musk, the world's richest man as america's copresident? >> the world is starting to adjust to this but i think it is much more significant than many people are starting to realize. one of the reasons about this meeting is so significant is trump, during his first term talked openly and privately about wanting to forge a deal with the iranians, and that never happened and it never came to light, largely because a.i.d.s. including john bolton did everything they could to undercut the desire to have

that meeting, what is significant now is you have someone who has a close relationship with trump, who has this willingness, this sort of cavalier willingness to reach out to anyone whether it is zelenskyy or iranians and have this type of dialogue, so if it does open up the possibilities of empowering trump's instincts because they had blocked such things in the past, especially those who didn't want to see any engagement or dialogue between the united states and iran. >> why is trump signaling at this point that he won't use the levers of the federal government to get whatever it is he wants?>> according to the new york times reporting, the

basis for the meeting was to diffuse the situation in the middle east. obviously we are in an extremely combustible moment between the iranians and the israelis, both exchanging strikes against the other, trump has expressed the desire for peace in the middle east, however he might define that. so, one could assume that this might be a way of exploring how they can get closer to the day tom. >> from the beginning of the first trump presidency, around this time, mike flynn has conversations with russian ambassador, which he then lies about and is caught lying and confesses to lying about the

substance of his legal journey, if you will. the substance of donald trump's plea to james comey to let it go, all of this politicking in the transition is again, untraditional, but i wonder what deeper questions you have about what it signals about the incoming trump presidency.>> it is interesting the degree to which musk is at the center of this, he was in the room when trump spoke to zelenskyy and he was put on the phone with him, in this instance, how much was musk briefed on previous contact between the iranians and the americans, did he go into that meeting aware of what had been said beforehand and what the intelligence community would be looking out for? did he leave the iranians with any sense that there might be a change of future policy or not?

what did the iranians take away from that meeting, there is a whole host of questions that i imagine anyone who is an analyst at the cia would love to put to mr. musk it also would have loved to brief him beforehand. just the very fact of this meeting elevates the iranians status, just as musk goes and finds him in new york and goes to have lunch with him, sort of legitimizes the iranian government, so there's a bunch of questions and i imagine that iranian opposition would have as well, but we don't know the answer and that is why this is so unorthodox because it is a little bit like tulsi gabbard showing up in 2017 and talking with the leader by herself.

and when people start acting rogue like that, you don't know how much it muddies the ongoing discussions with america's adversaries. it makes it all very hard to control and very hard for people working in intelligence, who put their lives at risk to know how to respond to this.>> i have to sneak in a quick break, i'm going to ask all of you to stick around, we will be right back. right back meet the traveling trio. the thrill seeker. the soul searcher. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe.

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>> we are back, basil, elon

musk? >> he is trying to be the most powerful, unelected person in the world, someone that can go to all these countries, potential bad actors of the united states and have these conversations and make these deals and come home and control twitter, it is incredibly scary. you grow up thinking that america is this really tough, rigid, strong country and it seems so porous, and that is so distracting. because you think wait, we have enough to worry about here, now i have to worry about these people going across the world and cutting these side deals, that is incredibly scary to me.>> we are in our second part of this conversation and not anyone of us has said anything about classified information, but donald trump has rejected an official transition process which means he hasn't signed the memorandum of understanding

that we put in place background checks to decide if somebody could be trusted with state secrets, and anybody holding their breath for that to start, just blow it out now. but trump is also someone who was indicted for mishandling national defense information and now elon musk is meeting with the iranians, what could go wrong?>> yes, nicole, this role of elon musk, it could be incredibly dangerous and destabilizing to u.s. foreign policy interests and katty was exactly right, but let me take it a step further, let's say you are marco rubio, mike waltz, pete hegseth , you are confirmed at the department of defense, there is a reason that the administration coordinates messaging on geopolitical matters on national security measures, diplomatic measures through the president and everybody speaks from the sit

-- same sheet, let's say in this case donald trump had given a message to elon musk or they are in a closed meeting that has not been cord needed with the community or any of the departments necessary for enacting foreign policy in the united states, and let's say he makes certain assertions or affirmations or takes a message back to donald trump, now the iranians have leverage over our foreign policymakers because they have closer knowledge about the presidents thinking that our secretary of state does, and what i know about donald trump, he is someone who is willing to take that risk. he sat for two hours with vladimir putin and still nobody knows what they talked about, to me it is humiliating to marco rubio and pete hegseth and others, that he will be a closer adviser to the president then they will on matters of national security, there is a

danger with this. the ability for elon musk to compromise our national security interest is exceedingly real in a trump administration.>> there is always a putin twist as well, elon musk has his own relationship with vladimir putin, donald trump has had multiple conversations since he last was in office with vladimir putin, what is his interest? >> it is a good point that there are a lot of intersecting interests right here, obviously when it comes to musk, his internet service company, starlink is critical to the military communications of the ukrainians who are currently fending off a russian invasion right now. so you could imagine why putin would also have an interest in knowing, talking to musk, there are many ways where he could be a significant factor.

let me just play one devil's advocate argument that when you consider elon musk playing this diplomatic role, if he's not doing it, it does leave everything else in the arms of the hawks that trump has surrounded himself with. of course, i wouldn't downplay the importance of protocol, of clearances, of having the state department facilitating calls, there's a reason why you go through a normal process like this. but i would also say that in the absence of someone who engages in dialogue, even with u.s. adversaries, you have a situation where trump has surrounded himself with some of the most hawkish people in american politics. there are pros and cons to this that i would just humbly layout. >> tulsi gabbard certainly doesn't fall into that category. >> that is absolutely true, who does fit into this category is

mike waltz , he is one of the hawkish members when it comes to china and when it comes to latin america, when it comes to a lot of topics, he is to be a real big russia as well up until recently. marco rubio is also quite a hawk when it comes to china and traditionally russia as well. so, it is a mixed cabinet at this point to say the least. >> there is a historic intersection between the president of the united states, the private sector and foreign affairs, fdr got the private sector engaged to be able to produce munitions and other things for world war ii. there were reports that when obama tried to open up cuba, that there were a lot of construction companies trying to engage and help create infrastructure. so, there is a precedent for this but the belief is that everyone is acting in concert

for america's interest and the president is at the helm trying to direct this. but with elon musk, you don't get the sense that the president is necessarily in control of what elon musk is doing around the world and again, chaos, conflict, who is really in charge here of the messaging and that is the concern.>> it is fascinating, it has been a week and there's already a need for someone that isn't as hawkish as the people he picked seven days ago, amazing dynamic. david jolly, katty kay, david, thank you for spending an hour with us, we will be right back. right back studies majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight.

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(luke) ooo, what about a beret? (vo) homes-dot-com. we've done your home work. >> joe biden is in peru today for the final major international summit of his presidency, he met one-on-one with the peruvian president, he was asked what his message to allies is about incoming president-elect trump but he did not answer. he spoke earlier alongside the japanese prime minister and south korean president, he will meet with chinese president, xi jinping , this is the third meeting between the two leaders and likely to be the final one. president biden is expected to seek to preserve the historic military communications, that helps countries prevent misunderstandings. that could spark unintended conflict. we will have another break, and

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letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber on a friday night starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicolle. that'll. welcome to "the beat." we have a lot cooking for this show to end the week. tonight a top obama veteran and health care expert and doctor speaking out on the stakes with this robert f. kennedy post. we begin with the clash erupting between some washington republicans and the incoming trump administration which in the personnel and clear plans