children and animals, that graduation day when she showed up and everything seemed right with the world. and they talk about how she liked to rollerblade here at this park in ocala. right there along the trail, the winchesters planted a tree, and in the shade, a memorial to the daughter, the sister, the mother they lost. it was their way of bringing amy home. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm andrea canning. thanks for watching. good morning and welcome to this saturday edition of "morning joe: weekend." it was an extremely busy

week with fallout from last week's historically busy election. let's get to some of the headlines you might have missed. i'm curious, because i have heard from several people on the hill that they thought that this was donald trump, either, i don't know if you can call it poking punking the hill, or maybe trolling. you would call it a start. several others suggested last night that republicans, this was not a serious pick. he has to know he's not going to pass through. he's doing it for other reasons. have you heard that? if so, what other reasons could there be? >> beats me. i don't see a reason to do something like this. joe, usurped with a president that was very good on capitol hill. bill clinton would give a heads up to members of his party when

he would put forth a nomination that could be controversial. he did not do that here. what is next, maybe the next person softens the ground eventually for the attorney general, maybe it makes his other picks look more palatable ? i cannot tell you with this guy what the president-elect is taking in any way, shape, or form. all i can tell you is that matt gaetz will probably not get 50 boats in the senate. i don't know what is behind this. it is certainly, according to everyone we have talked to, seems like a start and an unnecessary one at that. >> ken delaney and, a lot of folks, when we talked to jay and others on their great reporting, the reaction to these nominations, specifically matt gaetz for attorney general, it does feel like they are speaking in a reality that involves a senate and a functioning government, a house and a senate that actually wants to get something done, have an agenda, and has plans

to be productive. but if we look at what donald trump had promised, had tried to do in his first presidency, and had promised to do repeatedly during his campaign, don't these nominations fit? >> they certainly do, mika. one of the things he has promised to do is prosecute his political enemies to blow up the fbi, which he views as corrupt, to purge the justice department of career civil servants who want hugh to his views of the world. matt gaetz is exactly the kind of person, probably the personification of the kind of figure that could try to do that. i would just say one thing though, about jake's analysis, could this be a way to make the next nominee look more palatable? i remember in 2019 when john ratcliffe, now going to be the next va cia director, now not

confirmed, he had lied about background and some other things. and then, rick grenell was installed as the acting d and i, seen as a nightmare inside the intelligence community. after a few months of rick grenell, john seemed more palatable and he was confirmed by the senate. does that seem like what is going on here? i think that is a reasonable question to ask, considering matt gaetz is not confirmable. there is a human trafficking prosecution union within the justice department. some of those people have worked on the investigation of matt gaetz, and now they are confronted with the idea that he could be there boss. he could control their fates. they are absolutely horrified. we talked the political appointees of the justice department all the time. i've been talking more to career servants. first of all, before all of this happened, there was no plan to engage in mass resignations because donald

trump was elected. they are perfectly capable of changing policy on a dime, produce pursuing policies of a republican president, which involves different priorities on civil rights investigations of leased departments, maybe antitrust, all sorts of things. this set of nominations, particularly matt gaetz, has really caused a lot of people over there to think hard about whether they can continue inside the justice department. that may be what the trump administration wants. i've never heard the kind of comments, some of which we published in our story, that people are saying right now. they are just on more than here they are flabbergasted, and really, really scared, guys. >> dave, let's get your take on this, your perspective of how this nomination is resonating throughout sort of legal law enforcement community, and also speak to the idea that trump has always sort of wanted. we know in the first term, he famously asked for his own roy cohen, maybe he thinks matt

gaetz can be that. >> trump always wanted his attorney general to be his personal defender and he holds roy cohen as the ideal lawyer. not surprisingly wanted someone like matt gaetz. i am surprised, i think others are, that he actually picks dates. we knew he would pick a maga worrier, but matt gaetz has became a character a of a maga worrier. not that he was nearly expelled from congress and could've been expelled if he stayed around. with this pick, trump is trolling the doj and rule of law, but it could have devastating consequences. you asked about perception. a republican friend of mine, also friends with matt gaetz, told me last night he thought his appointment was the worst thing to ever happen to the country. considering a country that went through the civil war, great depression, and 9/11, that is quite a state. this pick is so shocking and unserious, i think you will have a hard time getting confirms.

that sound you hear is kevin mccarthy working the phones to try to defeat his top enemy, otherwise, he could become in the types of doj. i think there could be a resource recess appointment that could allow matt gaetz to serve up to three years. it is up to john the, and we will see soon enough if he will be known as a man that loves his country, like mike pence, or whether his legacy will be the guy that watches as rome burns. >> let's bring in msnbc chief legal correspondent and host of msnbc's "the beat. " ari melber. it is great to see you this morning. the picks for attorney general, especially in light of what we just heard from dave ehrenberg. >> i think your reporting coverage and discussion here is on the money. this is an extreme, outrageous, complete shattering of any standards, including, as is often the case with trump and maga efforts, a

shattering of conservative legal norms. i think this is a huge starting test of what is discussed, with the senate will do should this type of individual after the vetting, which should continue in questioning if it makes it to hearings, should he be voted in? i don't think any of this should be taken for granted, even though we all i think at this program the viewers understand the environment, the lockstep unity of the republican party under a senate of donald trump and maga. this is exactly why the constitution has advised consent provision, because this should not just be automatic. >> and again, the thing is, ari, as you know from your reporting last night and from what people like jake have been reporting on, this is not really a democratic versus republican battle. it is republicans, most republicans are lined up against

this pick as well and think it will do great harm. you start looking at all the people who said, they couldn't support this pick. it is almost impossible to see how donald trump's agp gets to 50. >> you look at john bolton and others talking about how you need an investigation, again, what reporters have discussed last night, and today with the ethics investigation ongoing, and further evidence material, whether it is resigned to me or not. whatever house material, whatever government position, be it the congressional branch, with the fbi has and others, this is all materialism of key united states interest to vent. and then you look at of course matt gaetz's famed battles with both parties. again, we've had him on, i've interviewed matt gaetz several times. the things that hurt him for this kind of role that are traditionally

disqualifying, are not in this dispute, as you know, joe and mika. as you know, he has talked to me about why he thinks there should be a very partisan, mega approach to government . why he believes in one side, not both. he is basically saying all the things that would traditionally disqualify you for this type of nonpartisan job. for all the attention and i believe merited concern over the abuse, potentially illegal and unconstitutional abuse of power under an incoming trump administration and doj, those issues are one piece of the job. as you know, this is a law enforcement job that deals with national security, terrorism, immigration, financial crimes. the idea of putting someone in with no experience, running a large organization, being a prosecutor, overseeing prosecutors, international investigations, or all the stuff this top law enforcement job does, including liaison with the fbi. and handicap with those other

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let me set the record straight. are people born wicked? or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? oh! -ah! [ laughter ] no need to respond. that was rhetorical. hm, hmm.

let's go right to our next guest. democratic senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts. senator, thank you for being on this morning. let's go in order. i believe the first thing i want to ask you about is the peak for attorney general, matt gaetz. what does this signify to you? many people are expressing shock . are you shocked, given what donald trump has said all along? >> donald trump is actually telling us what the criteria is for every one of these jobs, that is complete loyalty to donald trump. not experience, not qualifications that we would ordinarily consider, not how good you would be, not loyalty to the people of the united states, not loyalty to the constitution, absolute loyalty to donald trump. and i

think he is just making this clear with every single one of these picks. particularly with the gaetz appointment. it is the reminder to the democrats right now who are in charge for the next 50 days, that we have a responsibility to help take care of the judicial system, to help strengthen our court system . we've got 28 judges out there who have been nominated, who have gone through the process. we need to spend every single minute making sure that those judges get confirmed. look, i get it. supreme court has been captured by a radical wing, but this is about the courts of appeals, and about the district courts. these are lifetime appointments , donald trump cannot remove them. and it helps bring a little more stability to our legal system. this is what the democrats need to be spending

every minute on until we get those judges confirmed. >> was about-- i think it is fair to say that democrats have been concerned about this for quite some time, and will be, you know, following suit of what you're talking about, or probably have their own very big concerns about this. what about, senator, your republican counterparts? do you have any hope that they will hold the line for the united states of america? >> you know, every single one of them took the same oath of office that i did. that is a place to uphold the constitution of the united states of america. we have a constitutional advice and consent role here to play and every single one of them will have a vote. and they will demonstrate by that boat, is there loyalty to the constitution, or is there loyalty individually to donald trump? i think trump is putting it to them straight up, and we will find out who those

republican senators are who believe their only job is to attach themselves to donald trump, and those who say, they have an obligation to follow through for the people of the united states and uphold our constitution. >> the president-elect also making threats about recess appointments, senator warren. feel free to address that, but get your take on a colleague of yours who has been nominated, perhaps less controversially in senator marco rubio to be secretary of state. do you feel like he is qualified for the position? >> there are many things i disagree with marco rubio on. i have not decided yet about voting for him, but he is qualified. he has experience. we may have differences that would cause me to say, i don't think that he should be secretary of state, and we will go through that, listen to the hearings, i want to hear very carefully from him . what we are talking about with people like matt gaetz is

very different from what we are talking about with people like marco rubio. we have to keep that in mind. do understand with matt gaetz, and you have already made this point, he's not the only one out there who is unqualified, and who raises whole questions, like tulsi gabbard does. you really want her to have all the secrets of the united states and our defensive intelligence agencies, when she has so clearly been inputted's pocket? that just has to be a hard no. >> i know, but don't republicans know me in some ways, that is what trump has telegraphed to america, right? >> again, i have to say, trump got elected, i understand that, elections have consequences, but the oath we take in the united states senate is to uphold the constitution and that means to serve the people of the united states. that means, even if trump says, hey, i only want people who are loyal to me, and if they posed

national security risks, if they are going to prosecute my enemies, as it appears two of his choices would do, his views are not the views that anyone has taken an oath to uphold. our responsibilities are to the people of the united states. our next guest blanked wishful thinking for the democrats' losses in last week's election. we will speak with congressman richie torres, who says, his party has been mired in self-deception. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe: weekend." eek , but with 6-times the data. can your smartwatch do that? introducing kardiamobile 6l, the fda-cleared ekg that provides six-times more heart data than any smartwatch. and it detects three of the most common arrhythmias in just 30 seconds, including atrial fibrillation, bradycardia and tachycardia. kardiamobile 6l, the world's most advanced personal ekg.

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as democrats try to pick up the pieces, congressman richie torres is calling out his party's left.

writing quote, donald trump has no greater friend than the far left, which is managed to alienate historic numbers of latinos, blacks, asians, and choose jews from the democratic party with uncertainties like the police, or from the river of the sea, or latinx. there is more to lose than there is to gain politically from pandering to a far left that is more representative of twitter, twitch, and tiktok, and the real world. the working class is not buying the ivory tower nonsense the far left is selling. congressman torres joins us now. good to have you with us. this is not new for you, by the way. there have been a lot of monday morning cornerbacks that have said, yes, i saw this happening, and dissected it. you have been warning about this for a long time, and as you said, you are not surprised donald trump won. >> it was shocking, but not surprising. the far left is a gift to donald trump and it will keep on being the gift that keeps giving until there is a serious reckoning with the election and series recalibration. the far left of the party is

pressuring the party to take positions like the fund the police, will open borders that alienates the vast majority of americans. like most americans are in the center. that is not a statement or personal policy preference, that is a statement of political reality. when the republican swung the pendulum too far right on abortion, the american people punished the republicans in the 2022 midterms. their red wave became nothing but a triple. if we swing too far to the left on public safety and immigration, then we will pay a price, as we did in the 2024 election. when you swing too far to the left, it elicits a public reaction that will make our country more right wing, not less, more restriction is on immigration, not less, and more conservative on public safety, not less. the opposite effect of what is intended. >> these swing states were close. donald trump swept all seven, but still very close to me as we have been saying all morning. what raised eyebrows is people

did not expect him to take your district, for example. what did you hear from your constituents before and after the election on why some of them, maybe like voters or latino voters, asian voters moved toward donald trump? >> the simplest explanation is always the best. the simplest explanation is inflation and immigration. working-class communities of color are hit the hardest by inflation. on the subject of immigration, there was genuine political malpractice. since 2022, there has been an unprecedented wave of migration, whose impact was felt, not only at the border, but in cities like new york with a shelter system, and our municipal finances were completely overwhelmed. found in december 2023, 85% of new yorkers were worried about the impact of the migrant crisis on new york city, despite clear signs of popular discontent, it took the biden administration 2 1/2 years to issue an executive order, restricting migration at the

border, and by then it was too late. the republicans had one issue, had weapon i it against us, and when the president issued the executive order, poli revealed that it was popular among the american people, among people from every racial category, blacks, whites, latinos, and asians. if it was effective at reducing migration at the border and popular among american people, why did it take two and half years to issue the executive order? because it was unpopular among far left delete, that had power over the messaging of the democratic party, and there lies the problem. >> in recent days, they acknowledged two things, one you mentioned they should have moved on the border sooner than they did, the other is they felt like they should have dealt with inflation. acknowledged it was a problem sooner. polls suggest a lot of americans, no matter what demographic they belong to, were unhappy me which is how much things cost. that is a harder one. many i have talked to have said, they are not sure what the right approach may have

been. what about you? >> i am more sympathetic. when it comes to inflation, we were truly the victim of circumstance, unplug unprecedented supply chain urges lead to record inflation. when you are the party in power in an age of inflation, it is a political dissidents. >> was there too much money put in initially? >> for me, it was a global phenomenon. a global phenomenon explained by causes and i would not attribute global factors, but i feel like it was truly a victim of circumstance. for me, we did not have a messaging problem, we had a reality problem. inflation is a reality problem and no amount of messaging will make the public feel good about inflation. >> some of what happened in these elections where the ability to turn out younger people and the base. can you make that square? >> look, i think if you have a status quo, marked by an inflation shock and a migrant crisis, it will have a

depressing effect on turnout. the data was crystal clear. i was shocked, but not surprised by the results. more than 70% of americans disapproved of the biden administration, more than 70% of americans felt like we were on the wrong track, and in recent political history, there is no precedent for an incumbent party winning a presidential election. presidential election when the majority of people think the country is on the wrong track. >> mika. >> congressman, i am curious about the issues pertaining to the border, which i think you bring up a great point come and were a huge issue. i know that you mentioned that it took too long for president biden to act with an executive order, but also, probably with the strongest, bipartisan led legislation republicans could have ever gotten and trump killed it, as we discussed. so, my question is, is it just the administration and them being too slow on issues,

because they did make me major moves on, or whether other factors like disinformation, republicans not telling the truth about that? donald trump killing legislation that would have actually helped with the problem in a significant way that was cowritten by james langford, that is not nothing. >> if you remove inflation and emigration from the table, we win the election. donald trump's favorability has been chronically underwater. regardless of this information, we would have won the election if it were not for structural causes like inflation and a migrant crisis. and look, republicans have no interest in governing. their only issue is regarding the issue of immigration. that is extraordinary. here's the heart, political fact, when you are the party in the presidency, you are held accountable for everything, and

the american people are allergic to the substance or appearance of incompetence. when donald trump was incompetent in managing the club covid-19 glover global pandemic, the american people punished him in the 2020 election. when the biden administration demonstrated incompetence, they punished him in the 2024 election. timeliness is a death sentence. when there is a metaphorical fire, provoking a widespread public outrage, you have to act decisively to extinguish that fire, or else, the voters will distinguish we punish you at the ballot box. >> and mika makes a great point, there is a bipartisan bill republicans have killed it. the problem is, going back before that in '21, '22, '23, you add a crisis at the border that leaders in the democratic party pretended did not exist. so, this is the sort of thing that again, the numbers were so

massive, and the denial was so complete, that obviously, that overwhelmed any good that would have come by signing on to a bipartisan bill, right? >> look, you have two level with the american people. the american people are not stupid. you can't gaslight them. people know the reality on the ground. people know their own experience. the republicans, again, have been acting in bad faith and it sabotaged a border security compromise and should be held accountable, but the president has the unilateral ability to issue an executive order, restricting migration at the border, and he waited two and half years. that, to me, is political malpractice and we should be honest about it. up next, politico's john martin says, the scale of vice president kamala harris's defeat made double as a silver lining for democrats. he will join us ahead to explain. push and... crack!

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jonathan martin, let's get to your latest piece in "political" titled, people, not groups, how democrats can retool their message. democrats have a message for change, not just tactics or points of emphasis. the rest of their defeat and the number of voters who abandoned them, present the party with an opening. the question is, whether they will be involved and or a coward

when one of the groups as identity-based organizations are unbearably called, speaks up and the reward is alluring. whoever can retain the party's traditional commitments to the most vulnerable and appealed to the voters who just rejected harris will emerge as the strongest 2028 nominee and perhaps the next president. if democrats don't change their appeals, they faced the same barriers with that swath of the country they happen every recent election. first, they must recognize that they unwittingly ceded the ground for trump's revival. their acceleration under his presidency handed him the numbers he needed to accept the transition as radical. we hear it all the time, the things you have to say and support to win a primary is a democrat running for president come back to haunt you in a general election to me just ask 2019 kamala harris. >> willie, that is exactly right.

that thought that got so much play thanks to the trump campaign was her speaking in 2019, because that was a period where the left was in full power, the backlash that trump was on, and the assumption most democrats was, the path to getting back to power was trying to adhere the most. and grace to the left of the primary. one person that did not adopt that tactic was joe biden. he obviously won the primary and the general, but kamala harris paid a price, not at the time, although she lost the primary, but guys, she paid a price five years later when that ad got played so many times. this was to me the central western with trump back in office. will democrats learn from their mistakes? from the last time he was president, and not respond by this race to the left on every identity issue to please various groups and their correlations? will they resist that will they take the harris path in '19, or the biden path in '19? that to me is a serious question. so far, in my column today, the

response i have gotten across the board a lot of democrats is, they just don't want to keep towing the line. they know that the identity politics and the language, especially, is alienating to large swaths of the country. i think they are ready for some level of reform. >> i also read that that answer came in response to an aclu questionnaire, and a lot of democrats asking, why ask a question like that on the questionnaire? but just for people-- people may not remember just how crazy things got in the democratic party in '19 and '20, just how far left everybody got, to become an independent, you need to be a democrat, you need to be a democrat, and i said, i kind of like this independent thing. and watch the first presidential debate, and everybody up there on that

stage, except for i think joe biden, said, they supported a return to busting. i am like me that was unpopular in 1974! they darted so far left in '19 and '20, you are right. they snagged a commercial from '19, during that time when immigrants saw, i got to go far, far, far, far left to win, they snagged that and other things in 2019 and applied it to 2024, in america has gotten more conservative over the past five years, because crime, because of the southern border, because of inflation, you go to the list. so, it is interesting that you say that democrats are responding positively to this and saying, that is exactly right, we need to find a new way forward. kind of reminds me of bill clinton and 88 through 1992. it

was sort of the new wave for the democrats. >> here is what is so clarifying about this moment, you can't say that this was a bunch of racists driving a bunch of pickup trucks who have done this. i've talked with men that represent the most diverse and districts in america, queens. there is not an active clan presence in flushing today. a lot of her district voted for her, and voted for donald trump. these are first-generation asian and hispanic immigrants. you say to them something like communities of color, or we will uplift or center this or that, they don't know what the hell you are talking about. the party is using the language like the amherst factory lounge and not speaking like human beings. when grace mang told us, she said, we've got to use everyday american language. language that my grandmother

can understand. that is a really important point. it does not take much. it is not a policy change, but an important reform that has got to be made. >> let's bring in political columnist for new york magazine, ed kilgore. his latest piece is entitled, "democrats were crushed in 2004, too. then everything changed." you write in part, we are not in an era characterized by much interest in political history, unless there is a podcast on it that i've missed, but you don't actually have to go go back that far to find a moment when democrats were similarly afflicted. in some ways, election night 2004 was even more painful for partisans of presidential nominee john kerry, thanks to faulty early exit polling showing him winning. as we now know, the sense of republican strength and democratic weakness that was so pervasive on election night 2004 was ephemeral. democrats flipped both

congressional chambers in 2006. and then, in the crucible of a highly competitive nomination context, democrats found the leader they needed in a young senator named barack obama. none of this of course is to say democrats can count on anything, like their post 2004 come back in the days ahead. there are plenty of things that could go wrong in a second trump administration. while democrats really should conduct a thorough examination of what went wrong since 2020, despair is premature, and probably unwarranted. >> the similarities between what happened in '24 and what happened in '04, as you laid out in the piece, were pretty remarkable. willie and i always sort of joked about the fact that we have never seen manhattan so depressed as the day after george w. bush was reelected. it may actually have been worse

than, then the day after donald trump, as you said. but there were so many parallels in the election results, how they turned out, overconfidence of the republicans. a guy who knows a thing or two about republican politics, look at the 2002 election, republicans overperforming in 2002, republicans overperforming in 2004, and spoke permanently about a permanent republican majority. two years later, nancy pelosi was speaker of the house, four years later, barack obama won in a massive landslide. >> that is all correct. any time you hear people talking about permanent majorities, or political realignment, or anything so fundamental, and you are hearing a lot of talk from the maga camp right now along those lines, things will never be the same . democratic, core constituencies are abandoning the party left and right, drop

making huge gains in new york and california, which he did make some games. over interpreting the results in either direction is almost always a mistake. >> next, we will take a look at steve and two of the dark comedy, "bad sisters. " it follows the lives of the close-knit garvey sisters after the accidental death of one of their husbands. the cast of the hit show joints is next on "morning joe: weekend." weekend."

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>> what's the big secret for you? >> let's go one step ahead. >> we are not safe. out my own sister. >> somebody is dead. >> you've got blood on your hands! >> we have to get the cops looking at the right person. >> we are the right person! >> [ laughter ] bad, bad, bad. i need my "bad sisters." that was a look at the second season of the hit apple tv plus theories, "bad sisters." the show picks up two years after jp, the abusive husband of one of the five garvey sisters. now, chase my personal photos and law enforcement officials alike come of the sisters must once again fight for their freedom all while keeping their family together. joining us, four of the garvey

sisters and costars of the show, sharon morgan, executive producer and writer, eve hewson , and sarah greene. we are both obsessed with "bad sisters." i could not need this more right now. sharon, i will share with you me wasn't this supposed to be only one series? how did this happen where it continued? and i guess, how can i get so lucky? >> there was only supposed to be one season, based on a belgium clan me it was just one season of that. i don't know, i kind of thought, there is such a great response to the show. we thought, what happens after he dies, how do the sisters cope with it, and how grace especially deals with the guilt of offing are awful, awful

husband was more interesting. you know? >> yeah, exactly. >> fascinating, actually. >> and eve, mika and i had a very, very soapy summer watching you in the purple copper. [ laughter ] thank you, so much. what was it like getting the call and saying, you will get a chance to do this again? the first time, it was supposed to be a one off. it went so remarkably well. how excited were you to be able to do this again? >> i think i screamed when i woke up in the morning and saw the email. we all fell in love with each other. we were all hoping that maybe we get a season two. i don't think they told us until the season finale aired. so it was a while of waiting, and then we are all very happy. >> let's go one step further,

then. there is the excitement to have the series come back, but also an expectation. it has lived out, people love the show, they are obsessed with the show. what is the pressure, or responsibility to keep delivering? [ laughter ] >> there is pressure, i suppose, but it has taken the excitement and desire so well received, the appetite for it was so great, i think that is what takes over the pressure. there is a different pressure, of course, with the good, so to speak. >> everyone was so lovely. you don't want to let your audience down. also, you don't want to let the characters down. more pressure you guys reading it than actually putting it out there. i think. >> and sarah, you've talked about being able to come back with your on air sisters, also

being with an almost all-female cast, not having to deal with dudes, with roads bros, with guys! that's awful! and i hate it! it must feel great to be back into this sisterhood, we don't have to worry about pay disparities and everything else? >> it is a really safe, supportive environment to work in. we really do all love each other and we champion each other. it is a real joy to come to work every day. >> people notice your shoes. you know? [ laughter ] >> yes, after all that work. [ laughter ] >> you know, it is the important things, it is the little things. >> let's take a look at a clip where the garvey sisters encountered their new nemesis this season, angelica played by the legendary fiona shaw. >> she is a queen.

>> who's going to be next? >> all the single ladies! [ laughter ] >> we've got something to celebrate. >> what do you know, hope springs internally, you may rest. >> so impressive. >> sharing no spoilers, tell us a little about the character and the new dynamic is a part of the series. >> i love her so much. she's a terrible, terrible, awful woman, but i love her. she is roger's sister. she got very close to grace. she finds out her secret, she finds out what she did and she

uses it to get closer to grace and closer to the sisters. she is a worthy foe. she has just been an absolute joy working with. do not go anywhere, we have the second hour of "morning joe: weekend" for you right after the break. ter the break. . ♪♪ fun recip... (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) chase really knows how to put the hart in your local community. see what i did there? hey, jackie! (♪♪) evan, my guy! you're helping them with savings, right? (♪♪) i wish i had someone like evan when i started. somebody just got their first debit card!

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welcome back to a second hour of "morning joe: weekend" on this saturday morning.

the drive of the newsweek, donald trump choosing a number of extremely controversial picks for his cabinet. let's jump back in to some of the top conversations. let's bring an nbc news legal analyst, former prosecutor andrew wiseman, former senior u.s. executive working with doj, greg broward, and nbc news and msnbc political analyst, former u.s. attorney claire mccaskill. good morning to you all. greg, let me begin with you in your reaction. there are some of these nominations we will sift through this morning. the nomination of matt gaetz as attorney general, a bipartisan condemnation, some of the strongest criticism has come from his republican colleagues in his congress. as a practical question for the justice department, what would a matt gaetz attorney general look like? >> good morning, willie. i'd like to say that i am surprised, but if anyone has been paying attention, this should not really surprise anyone. this type of pig.

but, the reaction has been interesting. everyone from the wall street editorial board, to certain republican senators, to the legal community, and the public at large really is shocked by this one. i think for the department of justice, this is a sign that the department's traditional independence, and credibility, and strict adherence to the rule of law is in question, being questioned by the president-elect. it doesn't seem that sort of traditional approach to the department and how it functions is what this new president has in mind. i think this will be a real test for republicans and senate to decide where they will exercise their constitutional authority to advise consent in a serious way. i think we have seen, so far, as i have mentioned, real pushback by republican senators

. i just have to think that this nomination is probably not going to far, but we will see. >> the "wall street journal" editorial board is out with a new piece entitled "matt gaetz is a bad choice for attorney general." it reads in part this, mr. trump loud it mr. gates's law degree from william and mary, but it might as well be a doctorate in outrage theater. he's a performer, a provocateur, and his views is that the more explosions he can cause, the more attention he can get. esther gaetz has no attention intention in governing. when republicans took the house in 2022, it was with a small margin. rather than work to get things done, mr. gaetz sabotaged the kevin mccarthy before finally leading a rebellion to oust him. that u.s. attorney general has to make calls on countless difficult questions on home to investigate and indict. mr. gaetz's decision simply

would not be trusted. he is a nominee that wants the law used for republican revenge and it won't end well. former federal and state prosecutor, writes, trump's nomination of matt gaetz is a sign of dark intentions. quote, the impending nomination of gaetz as the nation's top law enforcement official is about as dark and clear as can get. gaetz prides himself on political attack dog tactics, on unquestioningly defending trump, and one settling scores, or perceived scores against his lyrical opponent. there will be precious you guard rails in place to check his power. republican majorities will have run the senate, probably the house, so don't expect me congressional oversight. there is little the judiciary can do to rein in an investigation although the courts play a larger role, and hopefully, if, and hopefully not when any of this turns into

politically driven indictments. >> he goes on to say, bill barr had a line he would not cross. while barr used his power unabashedly to defend trump, he generally would not use the department as an offensive weapon. generally, that is the concern you are hearing from republicans. this kind of goes back to the tulsi gabbard pick, which, at the end of the day, really bad, most republicans believe, and democrats for the intel community, therefore, bad for the united states of america. ultimately, bad for the president of the united states that needs to get the best intel that he or she can get from around the world. that certainly would be the case for president trump. we just talked about as an example of a time when he got the best intel he could get. you have republicans also, and the "wall street journal" editorial page, you have others

asking the same thing about matt gaetz saying, this is not good for the justice department, not good for the republican party, not good. at the end of the day, though, again, not good for president trump. things are picks that i don't think would strengthen his cabinet, would strengthen his white house, would actually weaken it, because he would have people, in jobs where they have absolutely no idea how to handle the bureaucracy they are working for. >> so, claire mccaskill, with that in mind, do you believe that your former colleagues in the united states senate, despite the fealty they have shown almost to a man and a woman to donald trump on everything the last couple of years, especially now they believe he is coming to watch with a mandate, do you believe in the case of matt gaetz,

perhaps in the case of tulsi gabbard, they will vote this down? and i am curious about your concerns, whether you think it is legitimate about this idea of recess appointments? >> first, let's put this in context. yesterday morning, united states senate gave the back of their hand to donald trump. everybody in the senate knew that donald trump did not want john thune as leader. now, why were they able to do that? because it was secret ballot. nonetheless, they did it. then, a couple of hours later, he drops gaetz and gabbard. i made a list last night of 11 names of senators that i think are most likely to say no to both of these appointments, particularly gaetz. keep in mind, a few of these names, like chuck grassley, for example. he will not run again, he just got reelected and he is 90. you've got mitch mcconnell. mitch mcconnell is not going to run again. you've got susan collins, who i can't imagine voting for these people.

you've got lisa murkowski. i can't imagine lisa voting for these people. you only need three. i think trump was sending a letter to the senate saying one of two things, either i expect the senate to ignore the part of the constitution which says, she must give advice and consent, or two, you've got to show me that you have no power. i need you to demonstrate to me that the senate is not in session, ever, because what you do does not matter. i just don't think either one of those are going to sit well with the majority of the united states senate. keep in mind, willie, they still have to do a background check on matt gaetz. anybody who thinks the fbi can't get what the ethics committee has in the house has never been subjected to a background check. trust me, a background check to an attorney general is not your average run-of-the-mill ground check. the same thing for tulsi gabbard. the background check for d and

r is not your average background check. i just don't think this resource appointment thing is going to fly for jobs like the attorney general of the united states. >> there was deep skepticism on capitol hill that either a, gaetz could get the votes, or b, the recess appointment plan would go through. as many caution, you could never say never in the trump era, as an unlikely as it is. andrew weitzman, let's talk this selection. first, you certainly know the department of justice intimately . give us your sense of the reaction you believe is happening inside that building, to the possibility of matt gaetz bleeding as attorney general? also, what would it be like if gaetz does find a path to confirmation, if he does find his way into that post, what does that look like for the department of justice and the nation? >> i think the reaction in the department is really one of shock. and it is not because of a policy difference. people at the department have

been there for years and years, and they are used to the fact that elections have consequences, and that you can have attorney general's, and president to come in with very different agendas. the reason for the shock is not that, it is , just start with the fundamental, a complete lack of qualification to a job. you might disagree with bill barr, you might disagree with sessions or mayor garland me but they are serious people. there are people able to do the job. we have lots more to get to this hour, "morning joe: weekend" continues after a short break . t break . hs preg. that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs. the chase ink card made it easy. when you go for something big like this, your kids see that.

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[ screeching ] [ chuckling ] [ vocalizing ] that's a choice. [ vocalizing ] think of what we could do together. welcome back to "morning joe: weekend." let's pick up with the conversation we were having just before the break. >> greg, how do you think this

plays into the idea of competence, and does this actually work in the way that even donald trump might want it to work? >> well, the events, i think a fundamental misunderstanding or misunderstanding on the part of the president-elect, even after having served as president for 4 years about how the government really works and how these agencies and departments work. let me go back to me if i can for just a moment, the comment senator mccaskill made about the background information. in the normal course, traditionally, presidents have used the fbi to do background investigations to generally, before an nomination is announced, but not always, to gauge whether or not a person was qualified and could pass a background investigation, get three requisites and security clearance to do the job, be confirmed and do the job. let's remember, as important as this has been to the process, the president does not have to have a background investigation done. if a president wants to simply say, we are not going to use

the fbi, we will not do a background investigation at all, a background investigation will not be done. in fact, the president can decide who gets the security clearance without regard of background investigation at all. the senate, as senator mccaskill knows well, will have something to say about that if the white house wants to go in a different direction. we have seen signals already that the white house transition team is talking about doing away with background investigations in a normal course, that will be a big deal. >> andrew, i have a question for you, are you aware ever in the history of the country has there been an attorney general that literally has zero legal experience? zero? we are talking about a young man who went to william and mary law school, past the bar, and then immediately went into politics. immediately went into, i

believe, florida house of representatives, and then to congress. i am not aware that he has ever touched a legal document in his life, that he has ever even familiarized himself with how-- and people don't realize the huge number of civil lawsuits the department of justice brings, civil and criminal lawsuits. also, andrew, could you touch on the ultimate guardrails, which are facts and evidence, judges and juries, and how matt gaetz may be can't fully comprehend that he can investigate someone and cost them a lot of money, but ultimately, at the end of the day, to put you in jail in this country, you have to get through a court with facts and law? could you speak to that a little bit? >> sure, let me get through the second point first. i really think it hits at the point jared was making, which is, this is a pick that ultimately, not only will not serve the public in terms of

safety, but it is hard to see how it would serve the white house me either. drinking a case that is not grounded solidly impacts in law , will just lead to embarrassment to the department . you saw that with john durham . he brought cases that were highly questionable, and that two juries unanimously rejected . and he is a much more serious, and experienced guy, with much more gravitas than matt gaetz in terms of having been a prosecutor, and having the chops. with those kinds of pressures put on him, he brought cases that simply flopped. there is no other turn term. and that is something matt gaetz simply does not have the skill set to do. he has not been a prosecutor.

he has not been a defense lawyer. i think when he first got out of law school, according to his bio, he may have worked for a couple of years in a civil firm. it is unclear what he did. certainly since then, claire, you are right, he has had no legal experience whatsoever. i cannot think of an attorney general who falls into that category. i think it is really important for people to understand what everyone here is stressing is a matter of competence, even if you put aside his own potential criminal issues, even if you put aside his adhering to sort of conspiracy theories, it is simply somebody who does not have the experience that is necessary for a job to carry out , both with the president wants, but actually, what the public deserves, whether it is the attorney general, head of national intelligence, or department of defense. you can't think of three more important positions for the

safety of this country. up next, democratic congresswoman abigail spanberger of virginia is our guest. the house intelligence committee member and former cia officer will weigh in on donald trump's choice of tulsi gabbard to serve as director of national intelligence. nce. how are folks 60 and older having fun these days? family cookouts! ♪♪ playing games! ♪♪ dancing in the par... (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound)

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the american people delivered quite an incredible mandate for change in this election with the popular vote and the electoral vote overwhelmingly saying, hey, we want donald trump as president and we have had enough of the harris/biden regime. of course, there will be resistance to change from the swath in washington. i think that is kind of the point. the american people are saying, hey, stop looking at yourself, stop focusing on your own power, your own position, your own bank accounts. how about we have leaders in washington actually looking out to the american people. >> president-elect donald trump's big codirector of national intelligence speaking on fox news last night.

joining us now, a member of the house intelligence committee, democratic congresswoman abigail spanberger of virginia. she is a former cia officer, and a candidate for virginia governor. it is great to have you back on the show. looking at trump's actions in his first presidency, and his words during this past campaign , it seems this pick lines up. i am wondering what your concerns are about it, and also, how this may not be in the president-elect's best interest. >> i think, importantly, the choice of tulsi gabbard as d&i is not in the best interest of our people, not in the best interest of our national, and of the national stage.

the role of d&i is complex. the d&i is responsible for what information goes to the president and the residential daily brief. the ari has access to every single secret that we have as a nation, the d&i knows of the sources, the methods, the ways that we are able to obtain information. so, nominating someone who has a clear track record of pushing conspiracy theories, and aligning herself, and excusing the behavior of authoritarians and dictators like bashar assad, who she met with after he used chemical weapons when his citizens, or defending the actions of vladimir putin, totally at odds with american interest. anyone who would do those things is certainly not only an irresponsible choice, but a dangerous choice to fill this role. >> but, is this-- is it this what donald trump reported and

said he would do? >> so, certainly i did not vote for donald trump for so many reasons. and among those reasons , there is a worry and concern related to the people who would fill his cabinet and his administration. even within the constraints of the poor choices , or the questionable choices that we knew he would make, there is the politics of it, there are people who are aligned with president trump, and then there are people who are aligned with president trump who objectively will be dangerous to national security. and we are seeing with his choices that he is choosing for select rules, certainly for the d&i, for the ag, and certainly the secretary of defense, people who are objectively not

qualified, but when it comes to the specifics of the d&i role emma stone who has aligned themselves previously with russia, with syria, with regimes the world over is not in a position to have, or should not be in a position to have any of the information that is america's greatest secrets. just to give you an example of why i say that, the united states provided intelligence to ukraine before the russian invasion. intelligence that said that we knew that russia intended to invade. that information came from somewhere. that information came from something-- i'm a former cia officer, we call sources and methods. in the sources and evidence, the ways the united states gave information is through technology we keep secret. her information with people who risk their lives to ensure that the united states has good information. so, the idea that someone who has aligned herself with, and defended vladimir putin, could potentially have

information related to the sources and methods of how it is we knew that russia was going to invade ukraine, is just one singular example. it is, i think, helps illuminate why this is so extraordinarily dangerous. it is not just the information we collect, it is not just the sources and methods utilized by the intelligence community, working on behalf of the united states, our brave men and women who are doing good work, it is also the intelligence shared with us from our partners, the world over. so, i question with someone like tulsi gabbard might be in the role of dni, will our partners , our british partners , partners i don't have to list them all, who share information with us, meant to keep us safe, meant to keep them safe, will they do that if they question their information might get passed on to somebody about home that information might be, about a country that they are at odds with? it is not only an

irresponsible choice, it is a deeply, deeply dangerous choice. >> congresswoman, someone who is a cia officer and has served the country in that regard so admirably, you are still connected, i assume, in the intelligence committee to some extent. do the people that you speak to, or perhaps do you have your own information, think that tulsi gabbard is more than just someone who is sympathetic to vladimir putin, or sympathetic to aside and syria? there is some theory we are talking about that may be more than that, what is your take? >> not to speak for anyone else, there is two elements to this. one, the dni is a relatively new position, created after 9/11 to ensure greater communication between all agencies that make up the larger intelligence committee. it is a relatively newer role. there have only been a limited number of individuals to fill that role. so many of my former

colleagues are reflecting on the prior choices between negroponte, clapper, or codes, right? here are individuals with a proven track record of service to our country, whether it be themselves in the intelligence community, former dni on the senate intelligence committee, also an ambassador. people, certainly a bipartisan background of service, but looking at the type of comments we have heard from tulsi gabbard , i think the clearest through line of people's concerns, speaking predominantly for myself, is whether there might be any sort of effort in engaging her or influencing her? the source of it does not necessarily matter. the reality is, we have someone who is a city member of congress would fly off to meet with her shot aside on her own, without any sort of overarching understanding of what was at

play, the consent that existed, the fact that this is a man who had just used chemical weapons on his own citizens, and here she chose to make herself an adversary of the united states. it is irresponsible and whatever motivation behind that, who knows what they talked about, the types of things she would say, but someone who is willing to do vladimir putin's bidding on television and the public sphere, certainly whatever the motivations behind it, she is surely going to be doing that behind closed doors as well. and it is dangerous, disqualifying, and frankly, there are many choices that would not be my top pick, but at least would be irresponsible choice to lead the extraordinary men and women of the intelligence community, protect and safeguard our secrets, and uphold the strength of the u.s. on a global stage. our next guest argues that donald trump won the election because of the right-wing media. the new republic's michael comiskey will join us with that

argument. .

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michael, you read michael's peace and-- >> well, i have been following a lot of the different aspects of what happened here and i think a major part of it, and as we talk about the democrats, i sometimes feel like we over talk about that and it leaves

out other reasons why this election was lost by the democrats, and that would be disinformation. and michael, you were writing about , why doesn't anyone talk about the real reason trump won ? and you are talking about right-wing media, in part. can you explain? >> a. there were immediate reasons that have to do with inflation, the economy, and so forth. but what i was trying to draw readers' attention to with this call is a longer historical development i have watched over the last 30 years, which is the growth, tremendous growth in size and influence of the right- wing media in this country. when we talk about the media, usually, in shorthand we say, that media this, the media that, as if it is one thing. actually, in this country, we have two medias. i think it is very important for people to understand this. there is mainstream media, the networks, "new york times", so forth. and then there is right-wing

media. when we think of right-wing media, we all think of fox news. it is much faster than that. there are all other networks, talk radio, which is everywhere across this country, there is right-wing christian radio. right-wing networks have bought up local television, local radio, some local newspapers, and then, there is this whole world of social media and pod casters that is just absolutely best. add it all up, it is tremendously influential, and it really does more than the mainstream media these days, i think, mika, sent the terms of our political conversations. >> and do you think that-- are we also talking about disinformation, or just a lien to the right in terms of the point of view that is presented ? >> sure, there is both. another thing that gives the right-wing media network such power is that it speaks with one voice. that voice says to regular people, the democrats

hate you, the democrats want to turn your son into your daughter , donald trump is your last line of defense against this matter. to back to politics, i want to speak to that really quickly. i have been writing about that since the mid-1990s, and it is a political problem for the democrats. i see-- to be honest, i see trouble coming for transgender americans come a particularly transgender people in the military. i think the democrats need to stand up for those americans. and i think most americans aren't bigoted, and don't want to see people treated the way i fear they might be treated. having said that, at election time, democrats and these election groups need to be smarter about the way they talk about these things. and you can't-- you just shouldn't ask people to tick offer publicly every item on your litmus test list. >> as we say here all the time,

two things can be true at once. the democratic party can protect the rights of people that others may want to stop on, at the same time, they have to have reasonable, rational policy positions. on the issue of transgender sports, majority of americans, as i said last hour, do not want men who transition after puberty competing against young girls and young women. 85% of americans agree with that. as spencer cox, the republican governor of utah said, they vetoed a bill, he was like, come on, guys. we have three transgender athletes in the state of utah. i think we can figure this out, so we don't punish these three students. i think we all agree there. i want to ask this question. i found your piece fascinating. we do look at the misinformation all the time, the

disinformation that is coming from a lot of these sources, just deliberate disinformation that is coming from the sources . that said, that doesn't explain black voters not coming out in detroit or black voters not coming out in milwaukee, black voters not coming out in philadelphia in the numbers they came out in back in 2020. reverend al told us earlier, about a month earlier that he went to detroit and there just wasn't the interest there among a lot of black voters. they were not excited about this campaign. they were not excited about voting. and he saw trouble coming a month ahead of time. that is not because they have been watching news max and are upset, right? >> no, it is not. it is not. i would still say, joe, look, people go to the grocery store and they experience what they

experience. the basket of groceries that used to be $80 is $115, i experienced that myself. i'm not a rich guy. i see it. i go to the grocery store. all of that is true. at the same time, i think our debates about the economy is that in large part by this right-wing media. they picked the facts that will support their interpretation of the world. and you just watch, come noon on january 20th, these outlets, they are going to start picking great facts about the economy. within about two weeks, we will have a booming trump economy, according to them. [ laughter ] coming up, joe's recent conversation with rock icon, sir elton john. they discussed what inspired his new broadway musical, "tammy faye." and the intersection of church and state. that conversation is just a head on "morning joe: weekend." end."

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elton john is back on broadway. the enemy, granny, oscar-winner and a rock 'n roll hall of famer is back with his new musical, "tammy faye." it tells the story of life and fame of televangelist, tammy faye. last week, we got up with musician jake shears and former band of the scissor sisters and sir elton john. here now is more of that conversation. >> reporter: you all had a limited run in london. it went extremely well. so, what connected the audiences they are? >> i think to british audiences, they did not know who jim and tammy were. they were not as familiar with it because it is very much an american thing. the story of her faith, the power of her faith, we had

people in tears, multiple standing ovations during the show, because they really gravitated toward and connected to tammy's heart, and of course, the brits love a character. they love a funny and quirky character. and the world is inhabited by the most quirky characters. when we started working on it it was like, we don't have to make anything up. this is one of the most perfect three act opera. most people would not believe it, it is so crazy, and it is all true. i think audiences were really plugged into the whole story and found it wonderful. fantastic music, katie, who played tammy, is transcending in the role. she has had the most unbelievable voice and is a fantastic actress, really good on choreography. a sharp, sharp witty, one of britain's greatest talents right now. fantastic songs by jake and elton. there is a lot to love in this show and the audiences really took it to heart. >> jake, can i ask you, exactly

how do you sit down and write with the sir elton john? >> i'm sure you-- i told you before, i have been writing songs that my mom gave me my greatest christmas present ever, "elton john's greatest hits" in 1974. how do you sit down and write with someone who has meant so much to so many people and redefined his music time and time again? >> when we originally started writing, i was in a band called citizens. we wrote the biggest song we ever had. ♪ ♪ >> "i don't feel like dancing" was the number one most played song in the uk that year. >> that was one of the few songs-- i went to the studio and i was on tour and i went to see how they were doing. i said, have you ever heard of bo diddley, they hadn't. we pulled up on youtube bo

diddley. i actually put the song down on the piano, which i never do. i went to lyrics. i put the melody and they finished it off, which is unusual and ridiculous. it was great fun. >> we had a history of making songs together. so, i just start with a stack of lyrics. it might be really rough, they are just kind of ideas, and bring them in. we have multiple days in the studio together. we are going in, knowing we will be on a ride for a walker. we had a great time. we go through the lyrics, sort of talk about what the songs are, what they feels could possibly be. he picks one and send me around the corner and i hide behind the counter. >> when you run a musical, you start at the beginning, every musical has a storyline. when you make it out, very random, the track will be finished. you have an idea of what will happen because you have a storyline, which changes all the time, but you have a

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tell me why i agreed to do this? >> this documentary will record your arrival from canada and your career as a filmmaker. >> where is my wife? >> i am here, leo. >> i want to tell everything for the record. they don't know anything. >> okay, let's begin. light, please. >> december 22, 2023. >> the story begins the night of march 30th, 1968, richmond, virginia. >> she will be a girl. >> being tells me you're going north tomorrow. >> i was on my way to decide my future, i never returned. >> i look at the new film, "o canada," starring richard greer

glenn thurman. one of the drafters who fled to the u.s. from canada to avoid serving in vietnam. he becomes ever respected documentary filmmaker and decides to give a final testimony of his life. during an on camera interview, revealing the hidden details about his decision to leave the u.s. all those decades ago. joining us now is actor, producer, golden globe winner, and humanitarian, richard gere. great to have you back on the show. this looks fascinating. >> i was trying to remember the last time we did this, mika, when was this? >> a good decade, maybe. >> can you turn up the sound a little bit more in my ear? >> absolutely, and come on into the shot and do so. can you hear me enough? i would love to ask you to tell us about "oh, canada".

>> i kind of fell in love with this project. paul schrader and i had not worked together in, i hate to say this, 40 years. we stayed friends since we met in "american gigolo" together. we've talked about things over the years. he sent me the script. it was something-- normally, i take a long time to say yes to things, but this was pretty immediate. my dad had just passed away and he was one month short of 101, but i had seen him go through this process of aging, and disassociating, and how memories , emotions, and stories became conflated with each other, much more expressionistic. and i really took to the script.

>> so, it is based on the novel, "foregone." are you familiar with the book? >> i wasn't, actually. i knew russell banks me but i don't think many people knew this book. it was one of his that was super successful. >> they certainly will learn from this film. you mentioned the idea of aging. what are some of the things more so now that drew you to this project? >> this introduction, i forgot this is really centered on that time in the late 60s and early 70s, which was also the time when i was drafted. i was in first draft and i had friends who left, and i also-- at some point i will tell this story, i left as well. i left school, which i had a deferment. after my sophomore year, i left to join the circus and become an actor.

but i was, in a sense, running from draft at that point. so, this resonates with me, and i think people of my generation . i don't know if kids today could even relate to that. i don't know. >> a quick complement, and then my question, you look really great. >> only a.i. , this is not me, i have been cleaned up. >> watching at home, but i'm sitting here, richard gere looks great. >> not bad for 103. >> i wanted to share that, you look at a project like this, it draws on history and it takes a walker to put these things together, we all know that, yet, it lands in a certain moment. i am curious now how you feel about the idea that this is about the classic idea, unjust law is no law at all, and where moral obligations fit into where we are told the country demands?

>> the movie is not about that. i think it is about how we all have secrets, we have all invented ourselves, things in our past we want to let go of. at this moment, the contrivance of the film is that he is giving his last confession, somewhat like crap last tape, which is a very famous play where a guy is sitting alone in a room, listening to old tapes of him telling the story of his life. it is true, to some extent what he is remembering. that is it for us this morning. tune in tomorrow for a new round of "morning joe: weekend." until then, enjoy the rest of your saturday. of your satur good morning, it is saturday .