you can send letters to your elected officials. i should mention, too, that pen america is a terrific resource for all of this. if you go to pen.org/action, you will find scripts that you can speak at a school board meeting, if you don't want to come up with your own words. you can find letters, templates that you can send to your elected officials. it takes absolutely no time. if you are a kid, start a banned book club in your school. and if you have the resources, by a bunch of banned books and stuff them in those little free libraries all over your community so people have a chance to read them and start talking about them. but, above all else, speak out. don't just sit there and wait for the bans to come to your community, because they will, eventually. even in very blue areas, we have had challenges. speak out now point an amazing, amazing advice, empowering things people can actually do. jodi, thanks. we will always have you back. jodi picoult, one of our favorite members of the velshi banned book club, author of over 30 novel novels including "nineteen minutes" and that is it for me, catch me at 10:00 a.m. to noon eastern. by the way, you can follow me

on social media, stay right where you are, "the katie phang show" starts right now. and a good saturday to you, all. i am katie phang live from telemundo studios in florida. in just 61 days, donald trump will be inaugurated as the 46th president of the united states. this week, trump has been revealing his cabinet, chock- full of loyalists, sycophants, and perennial boot liquors. like former florida congressman matt gaetz who was once investigated by the fbi for sex trafficking of a minor, he is trump's pick for attorney general of the united states. america's top cop. matt gaetz denies these allegations. and how about for a secretary of defense? trump's guy is fox news weekend cohost, pete hegseth, who was investigated in 2017 over an alleged sexual assault and once urged trump to pardon soldiers

who committed war crimes. hegseth has denied the allegations. rounding the corner is anti- effexor and infamous conspiracy theorist, rfk jr. -- trump's ideal man to head the health and human services department. i mean, he is really pushing the best and the brightest, isn't he? so, this may end up being the real first test of the 119th congress. congress, which is supposed to be an independent and coequal branch of government, a check on the power of the executive branch -- will congress hold him to account? joining me now to kick us off, matthew dowd, msnbc political analyst, the founder of "country over party," and author of "revelations on the river: healing a nation, healing ourselves." and danielle moody hope host of the "woke af" podcast and

"daily beast" podcast and "democracy" podcast. my thank you to your friends for getting us started, matt i want to start with you. something we have heard a lot about since trump was elected and that is recess appointments. they are a useful tool for presidents when needed but trump seems to hope to use them to end run senate confirmation hearings that would vet -- which clearly he is not doing -- his woefully inadequate cabinet picks. i want you to take a really quick listen, if you don't mind, to senator john thune, who discussed recess appointments. take a quick listen. >> you then punt to a recess, try to recess the senate for 10 days and get those appointments in? >> well, it is an option, but obviously it takes -- you have to have all republicans vote to recess, as well. so, the same republicans you mentioned that might have a problem voting for somebody under regular order probably also have a problem voting to put the senate into recess.

you have to have concurrence from the house, this is a process, all of this is a process. but, i don't think any of those things are necessarily off the table. >> i mean, matt, we knew that he installed loyalists, that was promised from the beginning. trump, though, never promised america his best and brightest, so are we left to hope some senate and house republicans find their spines? >> well, i think that is what we always hope, that political leaders have spines and have courage, but we have seen very little of it in the republican caucus, and among republican leaders. first, i want to say, since donald trump got elected president, legitimately, he has the right to appoint a cabinet that is in line with him but he doesn't have a right to appoint a cabinet of incompetent, corrupt people and that is where the senate comes in. i agree with john thune on this. i don't think that recess appointment stuff is going to be used that much because it is going to require 50 to 51 republican senators to do that, and if there is somebody problematic, like matt gaetz, i don't think the republicans who don't want matt gaetz are going to say, let's go ahead and do a recess appointment and allow matt gaetz to get in here. my guess is, there is a number

of these folks that will get in, but i think there is ones that are exceedingly problematic. the ones you mentioned, matt gaetz, rfk jr., and the appointment to the defense department, pete hegseth. i think all of those are very problematic among at least four or five republicans who don't want them, but donald trump has the right as i say to make appointments because he is the elected president but as i say he doesn't have the right to stock it with one flew over the cuckoo's nest meets star wars people. >> danielle, the new york times reporting trump advisers are proposing to give security clearances without fbi vetting. we have seen what happens when trump has access to classified documents, for example. when you consider men like matt gaetz and pete hegseth are up for incredibly important jobs, are we looking at a second trump term of just political negligence and yes-men? >> i mean, i don't think it is just going to be negligence, katie. i think it will be woefully dangerous, right? one, we already know that matt

gaetz, for instance, has been caught up in scandal, has been investigated over potentially having sex with a minor. we already know that a number of the men that he has nominated to his cabinets have sexual, predatory behavior. just like donald trump was accused and adjudicated for. so, the point is that they are going to go into these agencies and get them -- gut them of career institutionalist so that they can put in loyalists, so that they can hoodwink and bamboozle the american people about who is in charge of our most precious information. and documents, so that they can cozy up and create a new access of evil in the world, right? and i don't know what is going to stop them, frankly, to do that, because we have been looking for republicans to have spines for, what is it, nine years now? can't find one. >> matt, i want you to take a quick listen to this.

>> i think mark millie has to be recalled to active duty on the afternoon of the 20th, and i think a military tribunal, a court-martial has to be called, pedaled a court-martial, and marshall millie has to be brought up on charges and court- martialed. >> listen, this is obviously motivated by revenge, but we have seen this before, historically. adolf hitler purged the nazi party of nazis that he thought had too much power, and would become too much enemies, for the future, how concerned should we be about drawing these parallels? >> well, i mean, i think -- i don't think we should be concerned about drawing parallels because they are very apt to the situation we are in today. i am not one that calls somebody hitler, but there are hitler like performances that donald trump, and words that he uses quite often. seems there is no problem among the republican caucus and among

republicans to have some semblance of autocracy in our country over democracy, here. it is exceedingly concerning, the fact that steve bannon has any sway at all after he just stepped out of prison just days ago, that he has any sway over this administration is concerning. the other thing i want to say is, donald trump didn't have a mandate to do this. that is what is amazing. he actually doesn't have a mandate at all. he will end up winning by less than a point and a half, which is one of the smallest margins in our history, and he is not going to have to have won a majority of votes. he is going to have won a plurality of votes, but a lot of people that voted for him are upset about the economy, upset about joe biden, but they weren't like, let's welcome in a bunch of incompetent, corrupt people, and as i agree with danielle, it is not just problematic, it could be potentially exceedingly destructive and hurt a lot of

people. >> and i am thankful, matthew, that you brought up the fact that right now donald trump is coming in under 50% of the "popular vote" from this election. danielle, quickly, i want you to weigh in on this, too. steve bannon threatened the fourth estate, the media. clearly hoping to silence opposition. we have seen this in other countries like russia, china, north korea, cuba. should members of the press, including you, be concerned? and the public, frankly, for that matter, who is relying upon us to continue to provide the truth in the face of something that is antidemocratic? >> yes, i think that we should all be concerned, all of us that are in media, that have made our lives and careers of narrating the american story, and the fact is that donald trump has sued a number of outlets, including this one, right? while before he was president elect, so the ability to be able to recognize government against those that he does not like, particularly the press, that, to me, is going to be the deathblow of democracy, because without us being able to hold this government, this regime accountable and talk to the american people on our various

platforms about what is happening, then we will fall into deeper silos, deeper division, and disarray, and that is how authoritarianism takes hold, it roots and blossoms. >> it tries to pit us against each other. danielle moody, matthew dao, your voices are important, i appreciate you taking the time to join me and inform our viewers. thanks for being here. and don't forget, you can get matthew's book "revelations on the river: healing a nation, healing ourselves," anywhere books are sold. go out and get that book. still to come this afternoon on "the katie phang show", live with don lemon, live in studio to talk about the critical role independent media will play under a second trump presidency. but, first, full transparency, how special counsel jack smith is wrapping up the election interference case against donald trump on his own terms and why attorney general merrick garland must release any final report to the american people. that is coming up, next. next.

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for the department of justice, it is out with the old and in with the unfortunate knew. nbc news reporting this week that special counsel jack smith will resign before trump is inaugurated in january. but, for folks like me, i want to know when smith's final report on his trump cases will be made public. meanwhile, in an absurd decision that will likely face an uphill battle in congress, trump indicated this week his choice for attorney general, that is congressman matt gaetz. a man who once faced a sex trafficking investigation from the same department he could now lead. joining me now is barbara mcquaid, msnbc legal analyst, former attorney in michigan, cohost of the "sisters-in-law podcast," and a best-selling author from "attack from within" now, barb, i have been having these conversations with you, joyce, and others, this matt

gaetz nomination is nuts and we will get to that in a second but i did want to ask you, i want to get your take on the jack smith stuff. i understand he is resigning, i understand his team will resign, but i want to know how likely we are to see a pretty fulsome written report from jack smith setting out his analysis on not only the d.c. federal election interference case, but also what is still currently pending on appeal in the 11th circuit, which is that classified documents case? >> yes, you know, i have heard from a number of people saying, why should jack smith pull the plug on his own case, why not just let trump fire him, make him go through that exercise, so that people can see that it was trump who ended this? and i think it is because jack smith can have a lot more control if he ends it on his own terms. there are a couple things he can do. when you say is to issue a full throated report on both of the cases. the january 6th election

interference case, as well as the documents case in florida. those two things. the other thing he could do, katie -- and i don't know if this would withstand all of the machinations that trump will certainly try to put up against it -- but, to dismiss the cases without prejudice, make the argument later that the statute of limitations is tolled during the trump presidency and revive the cases in 2029. i think there is a 50-50 shot that succeeds so if he ends it now with prejudice, that keeps those cases alive. it would put the trump administration in the untenable spot of either accepting that, or having to refile the cases just so they can dismiss them with prejudice. so, we will see how that goes, but i think this keeps jack smith's hands in control rather than leaving it in the hands of the next department of justice. >> which would be kind of ironic, right, barb, fusing that llc idea of noncriminal prosecution of a sitting president, use it as a sword, not necessarily a shield, to be able to force donald trump to have to figure that out. one quick follow-up for you,

barb, joyce and i had the chance to talk about this on an ig life the other day. your thought about smith keeping that 11th circuit appeal alive, that classified documents appeal because it didn't deal with presidential immunity, it actually dealt with the appointments clause, for somebody like special counsel jack smith. >> yeah. and that is a really interesting situation because the special counsel tool alone is a tool that i think most people, whether you are on the right or the left, thinks is good for democracy, good for the rule of law. it allows an independent investigation of people when there might be a perceived conflict of interest. so, regardless of the merits of the case, one of the things that can happen in the next administration is to continue to defend the concept of a special counsel, that those regulations are constitutional, and if and when the case comes back, they could then dismiss the documents case. so, i think that is an interesting option that we will have to watch and see what happens. >> barb, let's talk about matt gaetz.

you are -- i call you a career prosecutor, i know you are currently not at the u.s. attorney's office, but like me, we have spent a huge chunk of our professional career as prosecutors and we have to talk about matt gaetz. an attorney named joe lepper telling nbc news, my client testified to the house ethics committee that she witnessed representative tran not having sex with a minor at a house party in orlando in 2017, this report was submitted to the house ethics committee in april 2024. this attorney mentions two witnesses that have provided testimony to the committee regarding matt gaetz and a spokesperson for matt gaetz responding saying merrick garland's doj cleared matt gaetz and are you alleging merrick garland as a cover-up? that is not responsive and actually not even relevant, but barb, this idea of having somebody who would head up the biggest law enforcement division of this country, being the attorney general, this is not a joke. i know there is a lot of chuckles about this insanity, but this is not a joke. this man would be america's top

cop. >> yes, it's -- you know, "joke," is an appropriate word but it almost makes too little of the disdain of donald trump that is demonstrated by this appointment. it shows a contempt for the rule of law, it is an insult to the people who have spent their careers working on behalf of victims in this country. it is a spit in the face of people who are victims of crimes. i'm hopeful this is either some sort of ploy just to get gaetz out from under his ethics violations, or it is somehow a stalking horse for some other candidate that is awful but slightly less awful than matt gaetz because there is nothing about matt gaetz that makes him qualified for this job. this should be a person of unquestioned integrity, this should be a person who is learned in the law, this should be a person who has experience as a prosecutor, or a lawyer, or in a leadership role at the department of justice and matt gaetz has none of those things. in fact, it would appear to be

his strongest criteria is his loyalty to donald trump because he has made it clear that he will take a blowtorch to the department of justice. he will accept donald trump's request to weaponize the department of justice. so, i'm hopeful that if there is some sort of confirmation process, that responsible members of the senate, whether republican or democrat, will reject this selection. >> barb, what happens to all those line prosecutors? and for those of you that are watching, line prosecutors are the people in the trenches day in, day out, trying these cases, dealing with juries, dealing with victims, witnesses, and the public. what happens to them? because u.s. attorneys as we know, they can resign and steps down once a new president comes in with a new administration, but what about the people working for the department of justice and they want to continue to fight for the rule of law? >> yeah, this is a tough moment for all of them and i am sure there are some out there thinking this is the moment they need to resign to preserve

their own integrity, but my message to them is, please stay. we need people of integrity to be at the justice department. this isn't any deep state theory, this is about protecting the rule of law. so, if and when an order comes, that is a violation of the rule of law, that is an effort to weaponize the law to go after donald trump's political rivals, there are people who are there who are saying, no, we stand up for the rule of law, that is not we do, we base our cases on facts and evidence and not on partisan politics. so, with 110,000 career employees at the department of justice, it is going to take a lot and probably a lot longer than four years to demolish that, but that really depends on the good people of integrity in the department of justice staying and standing up for the rule of law. >> i keep on looking at that field, barb, while you are cc speaking, "department of justice," the word "justice" is still there. thank you for speaking with me, i appreciate you being here. >> thank you, katie. coming up, clean sweep with a republican government just 65

days away, what can congressional democrats do to get in front of donald trump's worst impulses after he sets up shop, once again, in the white house? keep it right here, on msnbc.

when donald trump returns to the white house in january, he will do so with a republican trifecta of power in washington. after winning the white house and control of the senate, on wednesday, nbc news projected that republicans will maintain control of the house, as well. but, by how slim of a margin is still to be determined. overnight, democratic congressman jim costa was able to hold onto his seat in california. and there are still six races that remain uncalled across the country. those races will help decide just how narrow a majority republicans will hold onto, as house democrats strategize their path forward. joining me now for more is democratic congresswoman from the great state of washington, marilyn strickland, a member of the house armed services

committee. congresswoman, it is an honor to have you on this show. i want to quickly play for you what republican congressman troy nails said after donald trump met with house republicans this week. take a listen. >>'s mission, and his most objectives, whatever that is, we need to embrace it, all of it, every single word. in his mission statement, we need to embrace it. if donald trump says "jump three feet high and scratch your head," we all jumped three feet high and scratch our heads, and that is it. >> i mean, look, this kind of blind colt loyalty isn't new, but doesn't this pretend hitting a brick wall after brick wall for you and other democrats, trying to get things done in d.c.? that 118th congress was the least productive in history. >> well, thanks for having me here, katie. i completely agree with you. it is going to be a challenge to try to govern and do our jobs. i remind folks that regardless

of who is in office, my job as a member of congress and everyone is a democrat who feels this way, we still have to deliver for the people we represent at home, but if you look at some of the reactions that you are hearing from the republican caucus on some of the reactions, you are hearing him saying he is a full on loyalist. i think that represents who donald trump wants to appoint to these large, important agencies and what his agenda will be. project 2025, they told us specifically what they were going to do. the road our rights, tear down government, all those things, and it is going to come to life. >> so, trump has decided to pick foxnews we can cohost pete hegseth as his choice to serve as defense secretary. you serve on the house armed services committee. hegseth may be a veteran and we thank him for his service, but he lacks the critical experience to run a department like defense. share with our viewers your concerns about how dangerous it will be to have someone so unqualified taking over the united states military? especially when you consider that somebody like donald trump remains the commander-in-chief.

>> typically, when we appoint someone to be secretary of defense, they often have four stars, their generals, or the people that have extensive experience running large organizations. if you think about the scope of what the secretary of defense is responsible for, this was clearly a bad pick, but on top of that, katie, he was someone who worked for fox news, the most on objective media organ ac -- organization that got sued for lying about elections. i am concerned about his lack of experience, absolutely. i think him for his service, absolutely. but, the scope of this job is so large and having someone who used to work for fox news gives you serious pause about his ability to be objective and stay true to the mission. >> as donald trump checks off his wish list of appointment, one thing that most of them seem to have in common, if you look at the screen right now, is being a white man. so, you, as a female lawmaker, who is also both korean and

black, do you see this as an intentional anti-di move by donald trump? >> i believe he is trying to send a few messages. number one, he is picking people who he knows will be loyal to him, so that is always his priority. he wants people, as congressman nelson, jump, do what he says. number two, i think he is trying to pump a finger to say to people, we are anti-di and you will intentionally choose people for that. so, he had two loyalists in his party, scott senator scott from south carolina, byron donalds from florida. whereare they in this mix? are they going to get everything? they claim they embrace everyone, but when you look at who he is electing to be in his cabinet, that is clearly not the case. >> and in other people that keep bending his ear, because i love the pot brought up, byron donald, such a huge advocate, and surrogate on the campaign trail for donald trump, conspicuously absent from that proposed a list of

appointees and cabinet picks. but, the people that do have his ear are people like elon musk. he says he will be able to cut -- and i want to make sure i get this right -- $2 trillion from the federal budget, doesn't have a plan or even concepts of a plan. but, doesn't congress, including you, congresswoman, have the ultimate power of the purse here? >> we do, absolutely. and it is going to be challenging when we are in the minority, but i remind folks, all the efforts that came forward to keep government open, the big, important issues that can forward, they were done in a bipartisan manner. and if you look at the thin margin that the republicans will have, which will be more thin than what kevin mccarthy had aunt mike johnson, they are going to have to depend on democrats to get big things done. and so, i always tell folks, i am hopeful about working across the aisle, but we have to keep an eye on what donald trump is

doing. it is interesting that donald trump, a field businessman, is choosing elon musk, who isn't exactly a person who runs business as well, himself. >> yes, that is the truth. congresswoman marilyn strickland, i do want to say, i appreciate that you are a korean hunt book on the floor, that means a lot to me as a korean-american, so thank you so much for honoring that part of your heritage and thank you for joining us today on "the katie phang show", i appreciate it. >> thank you, katie. coming up next, man on the street, the viral interviews with voters that took the country's political pulse before the election and why so many voters just simply ignored the warnings about the very real dangers of a second trump presidency. new york times best-selling author and journalist don lemon joins me live in studio, we will break it all down. and log gain scent beads part of the irresistible scent collection from gain. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete

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how are you feeling after the election? >> very confused. i feel like everyone's angry and everyone doesn't know where to point their fingers. >> i do feel let down. am i surprised? no. >> in 2016, i wasn't surprised because i grew up in the extreme right or in those circles, so i wasn't surprised at the time for the number of people that were voting for trump then, but i was hoping we learned more. >> women are not one- dimensional, men are not one- dimensional, so if you are upset about abortion, great. but if that is your promise you, go live in a state that is pro-choice. >> that is easy for you to say as a man. >> that is what i have to say about a lot of issues, that is

why i don't pine on abortion. >> i kind of want to throw something at him. you saw a range of reactions from americans on the streets of new york grappling with the results of the presidential election, i think somewhere dealing with it better than others. these kind of man on the street interviews, we call them mos, man on the street interviews are the part of the latest chapter of journalist don lemon speaking to people about their hopes and fears for the future of our country and democracy. and i had the privilege and honor of having him join me now, don lemon, host of the streaming show "the don lemon show" and the author of the amazing "i once was lost: my search for god in america." don lemon, thanks for being here. >> i am a huge fan, by the way. >> the feeling is mutual. don, i love those mos, the man on the street interview, and we will call it mainstream media, we were kind of remiss, maybe, in not getting onto the street like you did to talk to people before the election about what they were focusing on. but that doesn't mean we didn't listen, right? that doesn't mean we weren't paying attention. talk about, though, how

effective it was to just walk up to strangers on the street of different backgrounds, colors, genders, and just say, "what is on your mind? what is important to you?" >> so, i had been watching and listening to folks talk about the polls. "the polls are saying --" right? and watching a lot of people who are in the studio, in their jackets, and ties, dressed up with lots of hair and makeup, talk about what was important to the american people. and i said, you know, what i am not hearing from is actually the american people. so as you know, when we start out as journalists, we have to go to the man on the street interviews. >> i love those things. >> it goes for the man on the streets interviews, when you are a young journalist, to the man on the streets interviews when you become a war correspondent, it is all man on the street, all getting eyewitnesses. so i wanted to go to the people who are eyewitnesses to america, that is america, that is mainstream all over the country. so doing this just before the democratic convention, i got invited to the democratic convention, the women there,

several women there who are leaders said, your voice is missing and we want your voice in this election. i said, well, i don't want to jump on a plane and go to chicago, i want to get in a car and go talk to the american people. what i found out was eye- opening, that the demographics -- i started hearing from people, the demographics that you would normally think would be voting for a certain person because they either look like that person, they are sort of identified with that person in a certain way, and that was not the case, i quickly found out. in swing state, after swing state, after battleground state, that certainly is not the case. black women were saying, i don't want to vote for, harris just because she is black. and white guys with beards with truckers are saying, i don't want to vote for donald trump because he is a white guy. i think he lies a lot. so, it just sort of became this surprising thing, over, and over, and over again, so i started not to believe the polls, and i started to put these things on my social media site, now my digital show, and

i started getting calls from everywhere, especially conservative media saying, will you come on and talk about these things? and it just sort of went from there. >> your streaming show is amazing, i catch you on ig live, as well. you are obviously an accomplished author, but how important is it, then, for independent media going into the second trump presidency? you clearly have left twitter, you have left elon musk, gone to bluesky, for example. this isn't the digital times square, but people can get information from you and independent media client platforms. how important is it to make sure that that voice is available for you and others to be able to disseminate the facts? >> it is critical for us to get attention to those of us who are in digital media and may not have the platforms that a joe rogan, or whatever. but it is critical for us, as journalists. it is tough in independent media, to sell, quite frankly,

journalism and politics. advertisers don't like it, you know what i mean? republicans by cereal, democrats buy cereal, they are afraid of it, right? remember what happened with bud light. i think it is even more critical for people like you who are in corporate media, to be able to be allowed to speak the truth, to speak truth to power. even when the folks above you, may be one, two, three, four steps above you, the shareholder corporation or the shareholders, when they may not agree with what you are saying, when they may need another narrative out there other than what you, as a journalist, should be putting out there, it is more important that we pay attention to that, rather than i think independent media -- i think independent media will do what they can do because we don't have a corporate overlord. we basically say what we want

to say, it is important to support independent media, important for the folks watching here, important for the folks that are average, everyday americans to support, but i think it is important that you, since you still do in this corporate media game, that you still have a big influence. it is a winning influence, i will be honest, we know this was a streaming election, but still have the big influence that you are able to say what you want to say and what you think is right as a journalist. it is also important, i believe, for journalists still in corporate media to get rid of the false equivalency. just because some things are objectively bad, a lot of what donald trump offers, quite frankly, most of what he offers to america is objectively bad. and because you point that out, it doesn't mean you have to point out something that is bad about the other side because you feel you have to give balance. that is false. and that is a disservice to the american people. and i think many journalists now feel they have to do that.

and i feel, and i know that in the back of journalists' heads now, they are thinking, what is my boss going to say if i go in, if i am troubled -- tough on a trumpet surrogate? are they going to think i am being too harsh on someone unfairly? are they going to be upset because the guys at the top want, you know, they want to survive in a business environment under a trump administration? so, i think that i believe, the problem, if you really want me to tell you, i believe the problem with corporate media now is that there is no wall between the journalists and the folks on the business end. journalism should not be about the folks on the business end. they should leave the journalism to journalists and the business folks to take care of the business and not rely on the newsrooms and the journalists for corporate profits. >> well, i am proud to say that with years here at "the katie phang show" and i as katie phang and listening to what i think is my true north, which is always facts and evidence, which is how i was trained. i want to talk to you about

your new book because you are here in miami for the miami book fair. you have been going -- you have been talking about your book. your book is just so painfully honest, and you are always an honest person about how you feel. talk about why this book was just so critical, especially at this stage in your life? because isn't this the first memoir you have written? >> no, it is not, this is the third. but, i had a crisis of faith back in 2018 when my sister died, and i started thinking about this book, and then covid came along, and then george floyd came along, so there was another book that came before this one, but this one, i actually thought about it before, the other book, the other number one new york times best-selling book "this is the fire." so, i put that aside and then i started after donald trump left, i picked it back up. this was in '22, i picked it back up and i left cnn and it became a different book.

people did not know that i was a person of faith because i did not wear it on my sleeve, right? >> some of us don't. >> yes, some of us don't. but, i believe in this environment where we had religion that was infecting our politics, where the line between politics and religion was not only being blurred, it was being erased, especially by the religious right. >> and weapon eyes. >> weapon eyes, and even in this election, i don't believe we should make laws that are based on religion and we are certainly doing it, look what happened with roe v wade, a woman's right to choose, woman's reproductive rights, which are about way more than just unintended pregnancies, or unintentional pregnancies. it is about pregnancies that are untenable, right? and sometimes, it is about more than just people not wanting to have kids, at a certain point in their life. so, i started to think about all those things and i said, i need to write about those things. and i did, and here we are.

the book is doing really well now, but here we are with the election. this book was supposed to come out after the election in november. >> why did it come out before? >> the publishers said, people need to go to the polls having read this. so, talk about those issues about women's rights. i have a friend in there in the book who was in her second trimester and almost died, because this is before roe v wade, because she could not get an abortion. a talk about immigrants, the demonization of immigrants in the book. i talk about, you know, the relationship that we have to each other and how that should be based on the best of us and it is not, often. i talk about the difference between perception and reality. a lot of people think what is going on now, there is all of a sudden this harsh reality about where america is and there is this one side that has figured out the reality of america -- it is a perception of america. there are two different things.

and in the end, i think reality will weigh in, and will weigh out more than the perception that some folks are less than others, that immigrants should be demonized, that women aren't fit to serve. that is a perception, it is not a reality. that is not a reality right now. >> well, for those of you tuning in, if you are here in florida, come to the miami book fair and see don lemon tomorrow, is that right? >> yes, tomorrow. >> you can go and get don lemon's book. i appreciate you being here, don. your message is always so clear and i appreciate you taking the time to join me today. >> thank you, and keep doing what you do. you are the best. >> i appreciate it. >> thank you so much, katie. coming up, the m factor, the fight to boost awareness for a medical condition that nearly all women across the globe will face at some point in their lives -- that is menopause. that is coming up, next. next.

why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. you know, i had to go outside of my own training to learn about menopause care. and i thought i was a good provider. turns out, i was a terrible menopause provider until i went through menopause, started reading, realized there was a huge gap in my own education. >> i have 23 years of formal education. not once did someone mention menopause to me. >> so, out of the nearly 8 billion people in the world, there are about 4 billion women, and every one of them

will go through menopause. yet, the ins and outs are still a mystery, even though some symptoms can last for nearly a decade. but, a new documentary "the m factor: treading the silence on menopause" is looking to break the taboo. join me now is townsend for dell, journalist, women's health advocate, and executive producer of "the m factor: treading the silence on menopause." she is also the author of the upcoming book "how to menopause" that will come out in march of next year. this documentary, so eye- opening. i will say, there is one part of the film that really struck me, a quote from a male doctor in the 1960s who said "once ovaries stop, the very essence of being a woman stops." i mean, look, this documentary is a great step toward shifting the conversation around menopause, so how else can we break the stigma? >> thank you for asking me that.

that is very important. this is a conversation that has not been normalized, it is a conversation that is often considered taboo, and i think we have to go into all different places to be able to do this, when it comes to breaking this stigma and what we are seeing in terms of lack of education and research. i think we have to go politically with this. i think we have to talk with medical schools about this. most important, we need women to be educated about this so we don't feel like they walk away with no answers when they go to their doctor's office. >> so, this incoming trump administration, for example, intends for anthony baxter robert f. kennedy jr. to take the helm of hhs. you have been to washington, d.c. to advocate for our health, for women's health. how worried are you about the impact of the new regime will have on women's health awareness overall? >> you know, i feel like overall when we look at this, we were actually on capitol hill earlier this week with senator murray and we were talking about this and actually had a discussion for the first time about menopause in the u.s. capital. i think we just have to keep our voices very, very strong. you know, there is a bill right

now that has been presented and we will have to re-present it, but it is a bipartisan bill with senators, a lot of female senators are just saying, we can't be quiet about this, when we talk about menopause. we have to increase funding, increase research, and coordinate the federal government's existing programs with regard to midlife women's health for the first time, and menopause. >> so it is not just bringing awareness to the men in the world, it is also to the women, right? because in that documentary, you have different women that detailed their unique experiences. what do you, tamsen, wish that more women knew about the mental and the emotional impact of menopause, not just the physical symptoms? >> that is such a big part of this, and i think that is part of what is so concerning. so many women have talked to me and talked to us as we are researching this documentary saying, i feel like something is wrong with me, i don't feel like myself, i feel like i am going crazy and they spiral into this area of not knowing what is happening and playing

whack a mole with their symptoms. i want people to be aware of what is going on so they can advocate for themselves inside the doctors office, and they are not turned away from doctors who may not feel comfortable talking about this, and they are suffering with their symptoms. way too many women are not being seen, not being treated, and if they are being treated, they are very confused about their options. >> tamsen fadal, i want everybody to go and not only watch "the m factor" the documentary, but you have an incredible book coming out in march of 2025. can they preorder the book now, tamsen? >> absolutely. we have 42 experts in the book and we want to make sure that menopause made sense to people, that it is not just what happens in the doctors office, it is what happens in the boardroom and the bedroom. once you hit menopause, you are in it for the rest of your lives. >> that is important. i was just saying to don lemon, as he was leaving,. and menopause, things that are taboos, but they are biology, people, so you have to live with it.

tamsen fadal, the documentary and the book is the 1-2 information parts that all people need to see and read, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. >> thank you, thank you. >> sincerely, to all of you who joined us today, thank you. don't go anywhere, my friend, alex witt, is about to come up with "msnbc reports" and that is next. is next. 's nothing you can do about it, that's the worst feeling in the world. kristen: i don't think anybody ever expects to hear that their child has cancer. it's always one of those things that happens to somebody else, but it's definitely feels like your soul is sucked out of your body when they tell you that it's your baby. and you would do anything to get them to the best place that they can be for their treatment. and i knew with everything in my soul that that was saint jude and that we had to get here. announcer: join the battle to save lives by supporting saint jude children's research hospital.

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