♪ ♪ ♪ something has changed within me ♪ ♪ it's time to try defying gravity ♪ ♪ ♪ that will do it for me. thanks for watching, tune in tomorrow to the sunday show when house minority whip congresswoman catherine clark joins us to weigh in on donald trump's picks for his cabinet and the dangers they compose. that is tomorrow at 6:00 p.m.

eastern right on msnbc. keep you here, melissa murray is in for ayman, and it is next. good evening. tonight on ayman, we have some breaking news. donald trump escalates his revenge tour. now targeting members of the military. plus, a very contentious take. matt gaetz's nomination for attorney general sparks a fierce fight for a release of a congressional ethics report about him. plus, trumps threat to do away with the department of education. and, when it comes to donald trump's next cabinet. no experience, no problem. i am melissa murray in for ayman . let's do this. we start now with breaking news tonight. nbc news is reporting that the trump transition team is compiling a list of current and former u.s. military officers

who were directly involved in the 2021 afghanistan withdrawal for possible court-martial. officers working on the transition are considering creating a commission to investigate the withdrawal, including gathering information about who was directly involved in the decision-making for the military, how it was carried out, and whether military leaders could be eligible for charges as serious as treason. it is not clear, though, what would legally justify treason charges, since the military officers were following the orders of president biden to withdraw all u.s. forces from afghanistan. matt flynn, a former deputy assistant for counter narcotics and threats is helping lead the effort, sources say. nbc news has reached out to the trump transition team for comment, but they have yet to respond. we begin this hour with this breaking news, and we are going to turn to courtney kuby, who is reporting on this live from a mobile report unit from australia. courtney, can we get here to get a sense of what is going on

here? >> reporter: yeah, this is part of a number of efforts by the trump transition team that we are learning more and more about since the election. some of their efforts to go after members of the military, we have heard a lot about how people like pete hegseth , the nominee to be secretary of defense, and other senior people in the national security space under president-elect donald trump have said that they want to look into generals and admirals, senior military members who have been involved in diversity efforts at the pentagon and throughout the military. but this is a different angle to their efforts to look at the current military leadership in the pentagon. specifically, they want to examine the 2021 withdrawal from afghanistan. it is no surprise, republicans have been extremely critical of the way that that withdrawal was carried out. and in fact, the fact that there was a withdrawal at all. it is no surprise that they

would want to look at it. but we have been learning over the last several days that they want to potentially target some of the senior military leaders who were directly involved in that withdrawal from afghanistan. so, this includes individuals who are already retired, like retired chairman joint chief mark neely, but also some current generals involved in the decision-making process on the ground, in afghanistan, in the summer of 2021. and making the decisions back in the pentagon. but as you mentioned, these individuals were carrying out the orders of the commander-in- chief, president joe biden. so the notion that they would be able to make a treason charge here stick seems a little bit far-fetched at this point. when we spoke at the start of our reporting we said that what they want to do is make an example of these individuals. so they may not go as far as treason, but they are looking at the potential for court- martial here. >> courtney, stay with us for as long as you can. i want to bring in joyce vance,

our msnbc legal analyst and former u.s. attorney for alabama, as well as tom nichols, staff writer for the landing. joyce, you heard everything that courtney says, perhaps this is all an effort to make an example, set the stage for what is to come. is it possible that we can see some pushback from the military officials on these charges? >> i think it's possible that we will, right? there is not a basis for bringing charges against these people, and the way military prosecutions work is that there is an article 32 hearing. that is sort of the equivalent of the grand jury process, or a preliminary hearing in a typical criminal case. it is a public hearing, and that has to have an affirmative outcome. the official who is overseeing that proceeding has to find that there is a basis for going forward before a court-martial can ensue. i think that we could expect to see pushback, and must, of course, the trump administration tries to engage in a wholesale turnabout in that process. and of course, in the military

system, they frown very heavily on undue command influence, where the command tries to get the outcome that it wants as opposed to letting the evidence take its course. so, look, as long as the institution continues to function as it normally does, it is unlikely these charges will go anywhere. this is, i think, a step towards autocracy and an effort at payback towards military leaders who have an sharply criminal, or rather sharply critical of donald trump. >> tom, what you have to say about all this? is this an effort to escalate the revenge tour that donald trump promised on the campaign trail? what does he have to gain from this medically? there was a special investigation in 2022 that blamed both the biden and trump administration's for the chaotic withdrawal in afghanistan. so what does he stand to gain from escalating this further? >> the last thing that joyce said was the most important, that this is a step towards autocracy. and it is an attempt to settle

scores with senior officers that trump believes were standing in his way, in the way of his plans, especially towards the end of his presidency. i think it is really important that we not get tangled up in normalizing this, and talking about the judicial proceedings as it somehow that is the point of all this. this is a direct attack on the american institution and tradition of civil military relations. it is trump and his team sending notice that if you defy him he will find some way to bring you into, to bring some kind of reprisal on you. even if you are a general, and admiral, a colonel, a captain. he will find a way to get his revenge on you if you stand in his way, even if you are standing between him and the constitution. so i think, if this is true, if

this is what the transition team is doing, it is shocking. it is un-american. and it is exceedingly dangerous. the only people that can really be happy about this are the enemies of the united states, who must be really just amazed at their good fortune this evening. >> courtney, back to you. tom just suggested that this could have a chilling effect, and again, the line in the sand for adversaries to bend the knee to a trump administration. what are you hearing on the ground from military personnel, or even republicans who may be responding to these rumors right now? >> yeah, i think at the pentagon what they would be even more concerned about is the chilling effect this could have on military officers. remember the environment that we are in right now with the u.s. military. they have been struggling with recruiting for several years. that is pretty much on track, or at least moving in the right direction for recruiting. but if you have a situation where you have a number of

current military leaders, general officers, and flag officers, admirals who might be in front of a court-martial and charged for carrying out the orders, the lawful and legal orders of the commander-in- chief, i am not saying they necessarily agreed with those orders. but they were lawful and they carried them out as they were ordered to do. as part of their position. if we see them dragged into a court-martial and charged for doing so, that could have a really chilling effect on military leaders going forward. we can see things like people who decide look, i don't want to promote up and get a star or two stars or three stars. i don't want to be in that position, because i can be vulnerable towards an outcome. the reality here is, as you all have been talking about, the notion that they would be able to charge them, again, for carrying out the orders during the withdrawal, seems difficult to imagine. but apparently, according to

the officials that we spoke with, they are looking at everything surrounding the withdrawal. trying to find some vulnerability, specifically about how the 13 u.s. service members, and roughly 170 afghan civilians were killed late during the withdrawal. and how that u.s. air strike that killed 10 afghan civilians, how those were carried out and whether people should have been held accountable. i could see that those two incidents, those two deadly and devastating incidents could play a major role, melissa. >> that is courtney cuvie. thank you very much for that important breaking news. joyce and tom, i'm going to ask you to stick around. up next we have the latest on trumped my in hush money case, with legal challenges and appeals all in play. stay with us. ay with us.

some days, you can feel like a spectator in your own life with chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. and treatment is 4 times a year.

in a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner. so why wait? talk to your doctor. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. chronic migraine may still keep you from being there. why wait? talk to your doctor about botox®. and get in the picture. learn how abbvie can help you save. with vaseline, hydrated skin is just the beginning. level up to even toned, radiant skin. new vaseline radiant x body lotion with 1% niacinamide. level up to even toned skin.

on medicare? living with diabetes? progress is having your coffee like you like it. the freestyle libre 3 plus sensor is covered by medicare for more people managing diabetes with insulin. this is progress. ask your doctor today. ♪♪

(♪♪) behind every splenda product is a mission. helping millions of people reduce sugar from their diets. now try a sweetener grown by u.s. farmers. introducing zero-calorie splenda stevia. at splenda stevia farms, our plants are sweetened by sunshine. experience how great splenda stevia can be. grown on our farm, enjoyed at your table. (♪♪)

donald trump has long promised to break the system. to dismantle the government as we know it. and this week he showed us who he wants to help him do that. and the names are so baffling that even republicans are a little rattled by his cabinet selections. first, there is pete hegseth, the fox news host who trump has tapped to lead the department of defense. there is also kristi noem, the far right south dakota governor who trump wants to head the department of homeland security. and then there is robert f kennedy junior, the anti- vaccine activist. he has been tapped to lead the department of health and human services. and then there is perhaps the trendiest pick of all. matt gaetz for attorney general. the far right firebrand resigned from congress this week, although he will still need senate approval to be confirmed as ag. gaetz has been under investigation, both by his congressional colleagues, and with doj. nbc news reports that there is a house ethics committee testimony from a woman who,

according to her lawyer, claims that she saw gaetz having sex with a minor at a house party in 2017. a spokesperson for gaetz responded on friday saying , quote, merrick garland's doj cleared matt gaetz and did not charge him. are you alleging that garland is part of a cover-up? to be very clear, the fbi investigated gaetz on sex trafficking allegations involving a 17-year-old. that investigation is over and gaetz was not charged. but he was also not formally cleared. again, gaetz has always denied these allegations. meanwhile, the house ethics committee has been carrying out its own investigation for years and was preparing to vote to release a report on gaetz. that is, until gaetz resigned from congress, extend wishing the committee's jurisdiction over him. it is now unclear if that report will ever go public. according to politico, there

are two main options facing the committee. it can, one, released the report and risk facing the wrath of gaetz and the president-elect. or two, the committee could keep it all under wraps. although doing so would certainly expose the committee to claims it has buried relevant and perhaps highly damaging information about the man who could become the nation's top law enforcement officer. and just like everything else these days, there is a partisan divide over what should be done. democrats like the judiciary care durban want the report released, and, not surprisingly, some gop lawmakers do not want this report to be public. here is what speaker mike johnson told nbc's julie tsirkin . >> the rules of the house have always been that a former member is beyond the jurisdiction of the ethics committee. so i don't think that is relevant. >> now, to be clear, if people took a hard line on this it could mean that mike johnson will face an uphill battle if he wishes to keep this report under wraps. and that can have real consequences in the senate,

which has to vote to confirm all of trump's appointments. republican support for gaetz in the senate is, to put it generously, quite mixed . meaning that even with a gop majority in the new term, the senate will likely be a big struggle to earn the votes for confirmation. and today late breaking reporting from nbc news shows that more than half of all senate republicans, including those in leadership, do not see a path to confirmation for gaetz and would not support him. that is according to a number of republican sources who spoke on condition of anonymity. trump's unorthodox cabinet picks have raised eyebrows, even among republicans. which may be why the president- elect has explored having the new gop senate majority allow recess appointments. recess appointments allow the president to fill vacant positions while congress is adjourned, in order to address exigent needs and government. to be clear, past administrations have made

recess appointment, but usually only as a stopgap measure. because recess appointments were never intended as a means of avoiding the constitutionally required senate confirmation process. now, back to matt gaetz. if gaetz is confirmed, as slate describes, the impact of the department of justice could be substantial. as civil servants flea and partisan loyalists replace them. trumped's transition lawyer made all of this clear in a lengthy post on x, saying, quote, career doj lawyers must be fully committed to and permitting president trump in policies, or they should leave or be fired. and we have not even had a chance to talk about the other trump loyalists slated for top roles at trumped my in doj. todd blanche, a lawyer who oversaw trumped my in defense and multiple indictments, including the new york hush money case, has been tapped as deputy attorney general. another trump defense attorney is slated to serve as principal associate deputy general. for solicitor general, the administration's lawyer before the supreme court, trump has

given the nod to john sauer, who successfully argued the immunity case on trumped my in the half before the supreme court. and to think, these picks have all come fast and furious, and we still have 64 days until this administration actually takes over. back with me are joyce vance and tom nichols. joining the conversation is anthony coley, msnbc contributor and former head of affairs at the doj. joyce, i want to get your reaction first on trumped selecting matt gaetz for u.s. attorney general, and although we have learned so far about the house ethics committee report on his misconduct, how do you see that report, which has not yet been released, fitting into these broader concerns about gaetz's qualifications for this top role at doj? >> yeah, you know, that's just the right question.

because we don't know what is in that report, although there has been a suggestion that it is not particularly favorable to gaetz. and i think if it were, he would be the one advocating for its release. the senate may never get the report itself, but that is not to say that they won't have access to the same testimony that the house committee was able to get. so i think that they will know in substance much of what is in that report. as for gaetz himself, melissa, it's really tough to find any evidence that he is qualified to run the justice department. the closest he has ever been to a criminal prosecution is when he was the target of an investigation. he spent very little time to sing law. he has never been a prosecutor. doj has 115,000 employees worldwide. more than 40 divisions. everything from civil law to criminal law, foreign investigations. national security, terrorism, collar crime, civil enforcement actions, antitrust. it is a big job running the department, and gaetz is not

qualified to do it, nor does he have the judgment or the character that is necessary to be the nation's top law enforcement officer. >> so, anthony, you have worked at the department of justice. i just want to recall that when the biden administration came in, one of the top concerns for doj was restoring morale at that in battle department. are you concerned about what it might mean for the department if gaetz is selected and confirmed as the country's top law enforcement official, both for the reasons that joyce just named, but also for the general impact this might have on morale at the department? >> absolutely concerned. i have been talking to people who served at the justice department in both administrations over the last several days, and most are concerned about how this could shake out. when you go back and rewind the tape, you think about the 50 or so years since watergate, doj has a set of norms and rules and procedures that prevent the justice department from being used for partisan and political purposes. that is a bedrock of the rule of law, of equal justice under

law. and i think what concerns so many doj veterans is the fact that trump appears, let me say it this way, trump appears to have learned a fundamental truth about washington. which is that people our policy. and with matt gaetz, they have someone who, as joyce outlined, has no qualifications to be the attorney general. and i think that trump has learned a couple of things from his first term. i think back to his first two attorney generals. they were conservative republicans, but they had lines that they would not cross. neil barden notably refused to agree to trump's assertion that the 2020 election was stolen. that obviously infuriated donald trump, and he intends to not go down that path again. that is how we got matt gaetz,

and i think that is what worries many of the doj veterans and in the department now, that this guy, donald trump is putting the fundamental bedrock of what doj stands for, the rule of law and equal justice under the law, that he is tossing that to the side and allowing the department to potentially be used to pursue his political enemies. >> so, tom, speaking of drawing lines. you have written that incoming majority leader john thune and his gop colleagues could draw the line and say no to some of the other trump cabinet picks, including tulsa gabbard, who has been nominated to be director of national intelligence. if the gop draws the line with the gaetz nomination, will there be appetite to do the same with these other unorthodox nominees? >> i think we need to focus on what is important here. if you are going to subvert

democracy and impose an authoritarian government, which, clearly, trump is taking steps to do. you have to get control of three parts of the government quickly and forcefully. the justice department, the intelligence community, and the military. and all of these appointments are trump's way of saying i am coming after you. don't stand in my way, either you are going to be completely loyal to me, personally, not to the constitution of the united states, or i am going to inflict my retribution on you in court, or on your career, in some way. and i think, going back to this court-martial issue, i really hope people understand this is not about afghanistan. we saw a lot of video right now about afghanistan. that is not why trump is doing this. trump is trying to settle scores with senior military officers who wanted to get his weight when he wanted to do things like shoot american citizens in the streets of american cities. he was stopped from doing that by people who basically told him that he can't do that, and he, now, is saying to all of

these groups i am going to put completely unqualified loyalists on top of all of your organizations, they are going to do whatever i say, and i don't really care if these institutions can function or do their jobs or protect national security or defend the united states. this is about me and my rule and what i want. and he is sending that message very, very strongly right now. that is why the senate, in particular, has to do its constitutional duty. matt gaetz is not really the issue. he will put in some other loyalist, as well. nominating gaetz, gabbard, and hegseth, mixing these with court-martial military officers, is the way to say i can touch all of you in these bureaucracies, in these institutions, and i can mess up your lives if you don't swear loyalty directly to me. >> joyce, everything tom says is incredibly chilling, and it

seems like at least one of the guard rails here is the senate, where republicans hold a slim 53-47 majority. that 53-47 majority may make it very difficult to confirm some of these more controversial picks, especially if some republicans defect. but as you have noted, days after the election trump has demanded allegiance for his request for recess appointments. is this an end run around the senate consent function? is it a tactic to gauge whether senate republicans will bend the knee to a new administration? and is this, as tom suggests, perhaps a constitutional crisis in the making when considered in light of these other developments? >> so, it is definitely an effort to demand obedience from the senate immediately and up front. look, in a normal world, when you've got 53 votes in the senate, there is no need to even talk about recess appointments. so it is a little bit crazy that that was what trump led with. under the constitution, the senate has an obligation to

offer advice and consent. that is not just for the benefit of the president, by the way, that is for the benefit of the public, too. before the president appointee to these key executive branch positions can be confirmed and take office. so what trump is saying is that he wants to bypass that constitutional process and make recess appointments. that means that congress has to go out of session, because this is a mechanism meant to make temporary appointments when congress is not seated. if you think back to revolutionary war days and the founding of the country, communications were not fast. writers might have to write for days to go back to the seat of government. so you needed to have this emergency mechanism for putting someone in place if someone resigned, or died. now trump is going to use that process that is meant for emergencies to bypass the constitution. that is what's going on here. >> absolutely chilling. joyce vance and tom nichols, thanks so much for joining us. anthony, stick around, we will

be coming back to you. up next, senate republicans signed a new warning to the doj about special counsel jack smith's work. that is up next. an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. step back out there with fasenra. ask your doctor if it's right for you. (♪♪) (♪♪) (♪♪) voltaren... for long lasting arthritis pain relief. (♪♪) liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. oh! right in the temporal lobe! beat it, punks! only pay for what you need.

♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪ ♪ at each day's staaart ♪ ♪ as time went on, it was easy to seeee ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c ♪ jardiance works 24/7 in your body to flush out some sugar. and for adults with type two diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. serious side effects may include ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital, yeast, or urinary tract infections. a rare, life threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop jardiance and call your doctor right away. if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction. you may have an increased risk for lower limb loss. call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of infection in your legs or feet. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. ♪ jardiance is really swell ♪ ♪ the little pill with a big story to tell ♪

when we started feeding bogie the farmer's dog, he lost so much weight. pre-portioned packs makes it really easy to keep him lean and healthy. in the morning, he flies up the stairs and hops up on my bed. in the past, he would not have been able to do any of those things. ["the glory of love" plays] giving. ♪ giving that's possible through the power of dell ai with intel. so those who receive can find the joy of giving back.

nbc news reports that, shocking no one, special counsel jack smith and his team will resign before trump takes office. this is just one of the latest developments that may allow trump to evade accountability in those federal criminal cases. as part of winding down his cases, smith requested on thursday to pause the government's appeal in the classified documents case. this request followed a similar request that he made to judge tanya chutkan in the federal election interference case last week, which judge chutkan granted. it is suspected that judge aileen cannon, a trump of pointy, will grant the request to pause the documents case. but even after his resignation,

jack smith may continue to deal with the fallout from these two buster cases for the foreseeable future. this week top gop senators warned the department of justice to preserve smith's documents, siting, quote, past destruction of records. while the preservation of case records is standard protocol, doubling down on it may be a signal that this new gop majority in congress may be gearing up for an independent review, or even congressional hearings on jack smith's work. back with me to break it all down is msnbc justice and legal affairs analyst anthony coley. anthony, where to start? let's start with the wrapping up i jack smith. one of his final tasks is going to be drafting and filing reports to outgoing ag merrick garland on these trump investigations and the subsequent indictments. once these reports are filed, can they be westernized by the gop against smith and are biden officials, say, in the manner that we are now seeing in this rumored court marshaling of the afghanistan withdrawal?

>> well, my hope here, and it is not a given. but my hope is that the justice department does develop a report and release it to the public. it is important that the public is reminded of exactly what donald trump did, both to overturn a free and fair election, and to illegally retain all of his classified documents and obstruct efforts to return them. i really think it is important that there is not just a historical record, but that the public understands , before even the trump residency begins, everything donald trump did to evade the law. >> will the public even care, though? we just had an election, the trump administration is now calling this a mandate for him, none of this mattered. we had a subcommittee with public hearings on january 6, we have the beginnings of trials, and it never seemed to

register. will releasing this report publicly have more of an impact than any of those other events? >> well, i hope so. and here is why. it is important to deconstruct the premise of why congressional republicans are saying they are right. they are saying that over the last four years, 3 1/2 years, doj has been westernized against this president. and the facts just do not bear that out. we know that donald trump spent months and months in november and december and january of 2020 and 2021, early in 2021, trying to overturn a free and fair election. melissa, you and i have talked about the more than 60 court cases that ruled against him. and i think it is important to put all of this in context, right? it is not just what doj did to hold donald trump accountable, but it is why they have been doing more broadly to uphold the rule of law. i am reminded of the fact, you are in new york city right now. doj prosecuted the democratic mayor of new york city, our

nation's largest. the justice department prosecuted the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee. a democrat. this justice department under democrats allow the prosecution of the sitting president's own son. so i think for the public, people who are still tuned in, and certainly for history's sake, it is important for people to understand what really happened. and this justice department was not weapon eyes, they were just following the facts and following the law and pursuing justice without fear or favor, which is why the justice department should do. >> anthony, all of this is true. the justice department went in, prosecuted a lot of individuals, including democrats. but there are those that are saying that the real big fish here was donald trump, and garland took too long to investigate donald trump's involvement in january 6th, prioritizing, instead, the prosecution of those rank-and- file january 6 protesters, many of whom may actually be

pardoned under the incoming administration. do you think that that sequencing of events undermines the doj's legacy coming out of this garland tenure? >> listen, the frustration is real. i, too, am frustrated. i think the frustration is best directed at the u.s. supreme court. it is because of conservatives at the u.s. supreme court. that is why donald trump is avoiding criminal accountability, melissa. you know, the new york times has done incredible reporting, looking at all of the steps that doj took. even before the january 6th committee got underway to hold donald trump accountable. so to be frank with you, despite everything that doj could have done, and did do, there were a lot of things that doj did that the public does not know about. ultimately this was a question for the u.s. supreme court. and, you know, they did not do what we expected the court to do, which is to uphold the rule

of law and to pursue justice without fear or favor. they not only put their thumb on the scale for donald trump, they put their whole foot on the scale for donald trump. and that is why he is not facing criminal account ability. >> anthony coley, as always, we are grateful for your insights. up next after the break, professor eddie clow joins me to talk about what is at stake for academic freedom under this new incoming trump presidency. and next hour, weighing in on the role that far right media can play in shaping trump's second term. all that is next, stay tuned.

my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis symptoms kept me... out of the picture. now i have skyrizi. ♪ keeping my plans, i'm feeling free. ♪ ♪ control of my uc means everything to me. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ now, i'm back in the picture. skyrizi helps deliver relief, repair, and remission in uc. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks, including fewer bowel movements and less bleeding. skyrizi is proven to help visibly repair colon lining damage, and help people achieve remission at 12 weeks and 1 year. don't use if allergic. serious allergic reactions, increased infections or lower ability to fight them may occur. before treatment, get checked for infections and tb. tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms, or vaccines. liver problems leading to hospitalization may occur when treated for uc. take control of your uc. ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ask your gastroenterologist

about skyrizi. ♪♪ vicks vapostick provides soothing non-medicated vicks vapors. easy to apply for the whole family. vicks vapostick. and try new vaposhower max for steamy vicks vapors.

leo! [whistling] ever since we introduced him to the farmer's dog, it's changed his quality of life. leo's number 2's are really getting better. better poo, better you! that's a good boy, leo! let me set the record straight. are people born wicked? or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? oh! -ah! [ laughter ] no need to respond. that was rhetorical. hm, hmm.

president-elect donald trump campaigned on a promise of shutting down the department of education. to be clear, keeping that promise will not be easy, because it requires congressional action and a super majority in the senate to approve such a move. but, regardless of whether the senate can actually get the votes to eliminate the department entirely, donald trump can still do enormous damage to hobble the department and its functions. we know the administration has long promised to dismantle anything considered woke or progressive, and trump himself has said that colleges need to be reclaimed from quote marxist maniacs. vice president-elect jd vance as straight up called

universities the enemy. now, those are just words, it's true. but you will recall, project 2025 lays out a range of policy proposals that could effectively dismantle the key functions of the department of education. project 2025 called for privatizing student loans, and rolling back protections for trans-students and diversity initiatives. trump and his surrogates have repeatedly threatened to defund schools with which trump disagrees. especially when it comes to ddi efforts and transgender rights. as the new york times reports, republicans will no doubt use the bully pulpit to ramp up efforts to reshape higher education at a moment where colleges and universities have never been more politically and culturally precarious. joining me now to unpack all of these developments is the james mcconnell distinguished professor at reston university, our friend, professor eddie clow junior. he is also a msnbc political analyst. eddie, for years conservatives have decried colleges as afghans of discrimination and claim that universities are

inculcating woke ideologies while suppressing conservative speech. what is going to happen in this next trump administration? what are the consequences for academic freedom and freedom of speech for everyone at colleges and universities under this new second trump administration? >> well, first of all, it's great to see you, melissa. i think we have a historical example, a historical precedent of what could happen. you think about what happened to universities and colleges in the context of the mccarthy era. the way in which academic work, academic speech, freedoms were curtailed as intellectuals, as professors, as administrators were pursued and judged by way of their relationship to democracy and in relation to communism and the like. so i think we have an example of the way in which

universities and colleges were policed in u.s. history, and the way we might think about them being policed in our current moment. >> so, eddie, trump has said that he is going to direct the justice department to pursue civil rights cases against schools that engage in quote unquote racial discrimination. i know that you are a proud alumnus of a historically black college and university, morehouse college in atlanta. how will this so-called discrimination mandate impact schools like morehouse and howard that traditionally have been about the uplift of historically marginalized communities? >> i'm not sure. i know we are going to be in the crosshairs. i know it is going to affect federal funds that are central to how hbcu's go about fulfilling their business and their mission. we know that many of these institutions will find themselves under assault. but also, i think it's going to have an impact on predominately white institutions. institutions that are committed to building classes that

reflect the vast diversity of the country. donald trump said he would go after the endowment of these institutions in interesting sorts of ways. and remember what is behind this is this idea that liberal institutions, universities and colleges, are these bastions of communist, left-wing ideology. and part of what they are going to go after our people like me, programs like african-american studies, gender studies. it is going to really try to hearken back to a conception of education that allows for, how can i put it, a kind of cultivated ignorance. a kind of cultivated ignorance that will run in alignment with the kind of political machinations that we are going to experience over the next four years. >> maybe as a harbinger of things to come, the day after donald trump won the presidency, black college students around the country received racist text messages that referenced enslavement. donald trump has not even been inaugurated yet. we have not seen what he's going to do with education. we are already seeing a

heightened level of vitriol. how are you and other professors and administrators working to protect students in this fevered climate right now? >> well, it is very difficult to do. i mean, part of what we have to do is address the fear, the anxiety, the rage. we have to stand on our values. often times in these moments, melissa, what institutions tend to do is get on their heels. they try to protect and defend what we have, as opposed to getting on their toes and actively working for the world that they want. committing themselves to the university and colleges that they desire. so, instead of just reading and reacting, because we are going to see the ed blooms and the christopher russo's showing up in donald trump's administration. and they are going to have an impact, not only on colleges and universities, but they will have an impact on k-12. and part of what we have to do is not just simply read and

react. we are going to have to defend our conception of universities and colleges. and these places have major endowments. and they need to use some of their resources to defend this idea of a genuinely liberal education. we cannot concede tim mccarthy 2.0. and we are on the cusp of experiencing that right now. >> you mentioned ed bloom. ed bloom was the individual responsible for bringing that challenge to affirmative action that was successful at the supreme court. how does all of this rollback on the progress we have seen in academia, in diversifying academia, especially at the most elite institutions, how will that go forward? and again, how to universities and colleges get on their toes to defend the idea of a truly liberal education? >> we have already seen the impact. we saw the admissions data out of harvard and amherst and other places. i think winston held steady. but we thought it brown, as well. in terms of the impact. we are going to see less diverse , in many ways less diverse classes. these institutions will become

places for predominately white and asian students. to deepen their hold on social capital in interesting sorts of ways. and part of what i think institutions have to do is to understand their commitment. if they are committed to this, then they are not going to be afraid of litigation by ed bloom . they are going to deploy their resources in order to defend the conception of the university that they have, that they say they are committed to. and let's be clear, we just got access to these institutions. and i want to be very, very honest here. people like christopher rufo, they revealed their hand. they reduced dei to the question of race, not really understanding how diversity equity and inclusion programs have actually help white women. they don't want to address the way in which dei programs address first jen students, the students whose parents did not go to college. they are the first ones in the family to go to college.

that is black, white, green, purple, and yellow. in so many ways, how can i put this, melissa? their policies are going to hurt the very people that they take themselves to be defending. think about if they actually succeed in gutting the department of education. $18.4 billion are deployed for title i. that is helping students with disabilities. $1.6 trillion for student aid. that is not just black students and minority students and transgender students. it's going to hurt the people that they supposedly care about. >> any cloud, i am going to give you the last word, professor. and you so much. everyone else, we will be right back. check out the savings calculator and find out how much you can save all year long. with t-mobile, the more the merrier! because now on our best plan, customers can add watches and tablets for half the price at just $5 a line. head to t-mobile.com, check out the

savings calculator and save! ♪ t-mobile jingle ♪ still have symptoms from moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease after a tnf blocker like humira or remicade? put them in check with rinvoq. rinvoq works differently and it's a once-daily pill. when symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief with rinvoq. check. when flares tried to slow me down, i got lasting steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when my doctor saw damage, rinvoq helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining. check. rapid symptom relief. lasting, steroid-free remission. and visibly reduced damage. check, check and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. put uc and crohn's in check and keep them there with rinvoq.

ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq. and learn how abbvie can help you save. [coughing] copd isn't pretty. i'm out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ♪♪ ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia,

and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night.

for good reason there has been a lot of attention directed to trump's selection of congressman matt gaetz to serve as attorney general. but the many controversies surrounding gaetz have eclipsed to be veritable curio cabinet of questionable candidates that trump has tapped to run our government. just today trump selected chris wright, a fossil fuels executive, to head the department of energy. it has also been reported that trump is considering cash patel, a former anti-gun appointee and trump loyalist to take over as fbi director. you will recall that trump tried to appoint patel as deputy cia director in his first term. that did not go so well, largely because of low back from then attorney general bill barr.

in his book, barr described patel as having quote virtually no experience that would qualify him to serve at the highest level of the world's preeminent law enforcement agency. then there is trump's pick of billionaire elon musk to head the so-called apartment of government efficiency. trump has also tapped south dakota governor kristi noem to leave the department of homeland security. according to trump loyalist, her outspoken views on immigration were critical in her selection. trump has also appointed fossil fuels ally, former new york congressman lees eldon to run the environmental protection agency. and his colleague in the new york congressional delegation, congresswoman elise stefan nick has been tapped to be trump's ambassador to the united nations, perhaps rewarding the one time moderate for her turn to trump loyalist. speaking of ambassadors, do you remember arkansas governor turned president hopeful turned fox news host governor mike

huckabee? well, despite having not held political office since 2007, the former fox news host is trump's pic to serve as u.s. ambassador to israel. huckabee is on record saying, quote, there is really no such thing as a palestinian. noticing a pattern here? these picks are truly baffling , at least compared to the resumes that were once standard for those tapped to run the nation's bureaucracy, it's law enforcement agencies, and its intelligence divisions. as well as those selected to represent the united states on the world stage. but despite these unorthodox qualifications, there is one thing that unites all of these picks. their undying loyalty to donald trump. look no further than trump's picked to head the department of defense. fox weekend host and military veteran pete hegseth. military officials have already begun raising concerns about how pete hegseth, a hard-line partisan will fare as head of

the pentagon. but that does not matter to trump, who reportedly thinks that hegseth , quote, has the look. we will dive deeper into all of this when a brand-new hour of ayman gets underway right after this break. step back out there with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. ( ♪♪ ) fasenra helps prevent asthma attacks. most patients did not have an attack in the first year. fasenra is proven to help you breathe better so you can get back to doing day-to-day activities. and fasenra helps lower the use of oral steroids. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. get back to better breathing. get back to what you've missed.

ask your doctor about fasenra, the only asthma treatment taken once every 8 weeks. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. we always had dogs, they're like my best buddies. yep, had them my whole life. c'mon bo! so we got him and he is a, an absolute joy. daddy's puppy. once we got on the farmer's dog he just attacks it, it's incredible.

they're so tuned into you and they have such, such personality. being without a dog, i don't know, can't imagine it. [laughter]