i officially landed 24 seconds into real estate for time to move along. this new hour of "ayman", unprecedented, exclusive report says that donald trump

could target military officials involved in the u.s. withdraw from afghanistan. the president-elect sales past the deadline to ethics pledge to avoid conflicts of interest while serving in office. tonight's worst of the week, a senator who won't stop talking about election conspiracy theories, even after his party won. i'm alyssa murray in for ayman mohyeldin. let's do this. tonight, nbc news exclusive reporting the trump transition team is making a list of senior, current and former u.s. military officers who were directly involved in the 2021 afghanistan withdrawal. more importantly, they are exploring whether those individuals could be court-martialed for their role in the withdrawal. a person with knowledge of these discussions told nbc news, quote, they are taking it

very seriously. nbc news reached out to the trump transition team for comment but they have yet to respond. trump's pick for defense secretary, fox news host pete hegseth called the withdrawal from afghanistan a, quote, humiliating retreat. he said that the united states lost the war and wasted billions of dollars in the process. let's bring david road, nbc news senior executive editor for national security. some of the currently serving officers who could be targeted for possible court-martial include army general andrew's, who served as the director of the joint staff for general milley as well as vice chief of staff of the army, general james mingus, who also served under general milley on the joint staff is director of operations. have you heard any reaction from these current or former military officials about their targeting or whether they have heard if they could be facing repercussions? >> we have not heard anything about this, specific

preparations of this list, i'm not sure many people knew about it. in the past, many officials have said that they questioned these kinds of allegations. one of the core problems is the talk of a court-martial. all of these officers were following the orders of the biden administration, the biden administration decided the u.s. should withdraw from afghanistan. more importantly, so did the trump administration. donald trump, when he was in office, signed an agreement with the tele-band that agreed to pull out all 13,000 u.s. troops out of afghanistan. biden continued with the agreement and made the final pull out of 2500 occur. most reviews of what happened in afghanistan was chaotic, blames both administrations. we will see how this plays out. it is clearly unsettling to these members of the military but it is very unclear how these people could be court- martialed for following the

orders of at that point, president biden. they were lawful orders from the commander-in-chief. >> you referenced the chain of command, military folks understand, you take your orders as you get them without question. could this have a chilling effect both within the military and with the united states public, who are trying to process this news and deviation from the expectation that enlisted officers follow the instructions of their commanders? >> they do, there is also the obligation, unlawful order, unconstitutional order, members of the military will not carry them out but these were lawful orders. it was a chaotic withdrawal but it was the policy of both administrations to withdraw u.s. forces from afghanistan. in terms of a chilling effect, it is a broader pattern of this talk of court marshaling military officers, prosecuting jack smith, the special counsel

who is investigating trump, of prosecuting letitia james, the new york attorney general investigating trump. it is a pattern of criminally prosecuting people. many trump supporters will say that he has been unfairly criminally prosecuted. i talked to many people that worked on the cases, they say, no, there were serious evidence of the mishandling classified documents in florida, serious evidence of misconduct by him surrounding the 2020 election. this is all unprecedented, as you said, this degree, this talk of court-martial's and prosecutions for members of the previous administration. >> might nyu colleague notes that a standard feature of autocracies is taking control of both the legal institutions and the military institutions. you just mentioned the perspective prosecution of letitia james and jack smith for their work prosecuting

donald trump. is this an attack to take control of the military and eliminate it as a guard were against a future trump administration? >> i think it is very early, too early to say that. this, to me, is sort of, at worst, a lot of misinformation and conspiracy theories. all of these things that went on in withdrawal from afghanistan. the primary failure of intelligence officials in u.s. military was thinking that afghan forces could fight and hold on and stop the taliban and instead, afghan forces collapsed. it is being painted as this easily presentable, sorry, preventable debacle. it is unclear what will happen, it is easy for people to say these things and when they actually get into power to get in and see the records and hear explanations, people on the ground, it is not often a big conspiracy that folks think. >> when we have had questions about chaotic or unsuccessful military withdrawals or military

endeavors like benghazi, that is typically followed with congressional investigation and hearing, not necessarily with proceedings and courts-martial. how unprecedented is this to move it to the military system of justice? >> you are right to flag that because we have congressional hearings and a lot of posturing that goes on but you have reviews, the 9/11 commission, a very thorough and successful review of how the 9/11 attacks were missed and how they occurred that resulted in major reforms in the u.s. government. you had u.s. military special commissions that have done this before, that is appropriate. court-martial's is extremely unusual. this is a judicial process, possibly people being imprisoned in military prison for misconduct. it is very unusual, is it bluster, we don't know. it is happening.

>> david road, thank you for those insights, appreciate it. next up, we get more on trump's pick for defense secretary, pete hegseth, as well as the world, the far right media, and frenchmen podcast could play in the new trump administration. all of that is up next. most have migraine pain relief within 2 hours. you can treat it anytime, anywhere, without worrying where you are, or if it's too late. don't take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with you. ask about ubrelvy. learn how abbvie could help you save.

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before the break, we discussed nbc news exclusive reporting that donald trump's

transition team is exploring whether military officials directly involved in the u.s. -- u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan in 2021 can be court-martial. trump pick for defense secretary, fox news host, pete hegseth, has been a staunch critic of the afghanistan withdrawal saying that the united states lost the war and wasted billions of dollars in the process. hegseth was a junior officer in the minnesota army national guard. he served overseas but never held a senior military position . he also has never served in government and has no experience in government. what hegseth is known for his war on woke, which includes arguing against women serving in combat roles and regularly mocking and misgendering transgender service members. he also says that the next president should, quote, clean house at the pentagon by getting rid of both generals and claims that the promotion of

diversity, equity, and inclusion of the nation's service academies has made the military, quote, effeminate. during trump's first term, we also saw steady stream of fox personalities turned white house officials, john bolton, kayleigh mcenany, many observers noted fox's efforts to paint trump and paint him in the best possible light was hard lined, events like charlottesville and january 6th insurrection where fox and the hardliners in the white house try to put a good face on the trump administration's missteps and lapses. network star trek sean hannity and jeanine pirro campaign for trump, making clear the connections between the network and the administration and campaign. while donald trump flirted with fringe conservative outlooks, it was always clear fox was in the pole position as the preferred mouthpiece. as we enter trump's second

term, the right-wing media landscape has changed considerably and to the incoming administration's profound advantage. trump will have the support of fringe podcasters like steve bannon and tucker carlson, who have already spread conspiracy theories on his behalf. there's a whole new world of podcasting which includes pro-trump host, charlie kirk and ben shapiro, the hugely influential, anti- podcast machine headed by joe wogan -- rogan. he will have the backing of elon musk, who successfully managed to transform twitter/x into right-wing echo chamber that aids trump and the republican party. what makes trump's incoming second term more frightening than the first is the fact that the new president elect will have an empire of far right voices in his ear but also the country's ear to defend him at all cost. one of those voices may have command over the u.s. military. second only of course, to

donald trump's command. joining me to discuss all of this is the president of media matters and the host of the daniel munie show and co-host of democracy-ish on you to. joining us's wit -- rick wilson, cofounder of the lincoln project and author of the best-selling book, running against the devil: a plot to save america from trump and the democrats from themselves. rick, what is your reaction to the new nbc news exclusive about the withdrawal from afghanistan and how does it fit into the nomination of pete hegseth, both in terms of his reputation and public comments? >> i think everyone that objectively look at this, pete hegseth, although he was a platoon commander, he served in the national guard, has zero experience. he is not qualified to run a waffle house, he has no managerial experience at all and you're asking him to manage

$900 billion operation with 2.5 million men and women who serve in the active reserve and national guard. 750,000 civilian employees around the world, the most complex and if a cult assignment in government . i could tell you, i worked as a very junior aid to a secretary of defense and this is the biggest job in the world . this is a guy that reads off of a teleprompter, he is a complete lightweight, he lacks the intellectual skills. he does have what trump wants which is malice and obedience. i think if you ended up with this guy, retired military officers and court marshals, you are going to shatter the cohesiveness and effectiveness of leadership in the military. they will recognize the long tradition of nonpartisan military leadership will be broken and the authoritarianism of trump has infected one of the most important institutions in our country >> angela, you and your colleagues that media matters have documented much of

hegseth's extremism, including his history of islamophobic rhetoric, can you talk more and maybe augment what rick said about the significance of someone who has taken such extreme positions that hegseth has, being considered for this top position in an institution that is populated by a very diverse group of people? >> i will start there, part of it is, one of the important components of the military's readiness, to be prepared. two of the things he represents undercuts that, one that is this idea of misogyny and reduced role women would play in the military. everyone universally accepted doing that would reduce military readiness. that will absolutely have an effect. beyond that is his woke speech, poisoned by not just islamophobia, something broader and bigger than that, he sees the world through crusader terms. he sees the military, the united states military, sort of as a flaming sword for christ that is engaged in not just

national security, it is also engaged in a religious battle. it is important to stamp out and snuff out the rise of islam across the globe. one of the things he lamented on several occasions is that muslims are simply having too many babies by comparison to christians. that presents a problem for cultural dominance down the road and we need to think about this threat now. those are the two big pieces, aside from the experience questions, plenty of time to assess that. both what he represents in terms of unit readiness and a worldview that is poisoned by this grand narrative that presents the military as an instrument, not just for trump's authoritarianism, which is extremely scary and he is fully obedient, also for the broader, sort of christian worldview. >> danielle, i appreciate angelo making connections with christian doctrine, i want to further this talking about the

war on woke and hegseth assault on certain aspects of the military he views as a necessary attentive to dei. post 9/11, one of the things identified was a vulnerability in the military was its failure to be diverse institution, you had to have individuals that were capable of translating farsi and urdu, whatnot, it could not be your standard military intelligence community, it had to be more diverse. how is this war on woke going to affect our preparedness and readiness and make us more vulnerable going forward? >> that is exactly the point, it will make us more honorable around the world. we are living in extraordinary dangerous times where we have multiple wars that are happening globally and we will have somebody who's main qualifications is going on television to talk about women being in combat and needing to be in the home or someone talking against transgender people and saying that is the biggest problem in america.

what disturbs me about this man the most is the fact that he wants to use the u.s. military against american citizens. that is what he has said, he has said that we need to source out the deep state, get rid of the people that are liberal, progressive that we have been paying too much attention to what has been happening overseas and not enough attention to what is happening in america. for the first time in our nations history, we are up against a possible secretary of defense that sees the american people as the enemy. that is something that is incredibly dangerous and what authoritarianism looks like. >> rick, not only is it someone who has made noise about using the military against individual citizens, protesters, someone who does not have a lot of experience and that really is something that stands out, how will that lack of experience change things at the department of defense? >> it will be catastrophic for the department, catastrophic for the men and women in uniform.

this job requires that you have the ability to be a diplomat, you have the ability to manage an enormously globe spanning enterprise, not only on the military side but the procuring side, the acquisition side, the personnel side to this job is so much bigger than a lightweight like this guy. he is a nobody who donald trump has noticed because he is on fox news. no one would hire this guy in senior position at any firm in the country and the department of defense is at a scale and complexity so far beyond this wet brained example of fox news personalities, that it is, it is indescribable how much bigger this job is than this little man. >> we are going to have the panel stick around to hear more after the break. coming up, we talk about how trump has gone through transition deadlines sparking true concerns about national security. that is coming up. introducing kardiamobile 6l, the fda-cleared ekg

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donald trump won't be inaugurated president for another 64 days, he might already be on the wrong side of the law. the president-elect still has not submitted an ethics pledge stating that he will avoid conflicts of interest while serving in office. under the presidential transition act, both presidential candidates are legally required to submit an ethics plan and conflict of interest statement by october 1st, that was more than a month ago. by refusing to comply with this law, trump's transition team is prevented from participating in national security briefings or from gaining access to the federal agencies to this is before his administration begins a complicated work of assuming command of those agencies on january 20th. senator elizabeth warren posted on x, quote, donald trump and his transition team are already breaking the law, i would know because i wrote the law. this is what legal corruption

looks like, end quote back with me to discuss all of this are angelo, danielle, and rick. the watchdog group, citizens for responsible and ethics in washington identified 3400 hundreds of interest tied to the first trump administration, is this why the trump administration transition team has been slow to get this round of ethics paperwork in? >> yes, the fact that they are over criminals and nothing happened to them in their first administration in terms of not following the laws. donald trump passed over his head to his son. he did not stop having involvement in his empire. there have been no effects for him to not follow what is the norm, he has broken all of them. wiley appreciate senator warren for bringing that to our attention, the entire operation has been criminal over the last several years and we have not seen anything happen from that, except court cases, indictments but donald trump will be back in the oval office in 64 days.

>> rick, they're not be a kind ability for failing to comply with this law but we do know one of the lessons from 9/11 is how important this transition period is for national security. the 9/11 commission report found that due to the time lag because of the contests in the 2000 election between bush and gore, brushed presidential transition process that may have been a factor in the government not being prepared for 9/11. is this lack of compliance and consequences being barred from national security briefings and agency briefings, is this going to be a problem for us going forward in terms of national security? >> i think our national security back to be deeply comfortable by the fact donald trump wants tulsi gabbard to become the director of national intelligence, someone who is so pro-russian, surprise does not wake up to the international now on her phone every morning to an alarm. this is not a person, donald trump is not a person that believes our national security is important.

he puts it in a secondary position to his own impulses, his own greed and desires. i'm not shocked he is not signing the ethics agreements, not shocked he is not cooperating with the gao on this because he believes he is above the law and he is a criminal, as we are aware, who has been told over and over again, he cannot be prosecuted, the supreme court has given him get out of jail for free forever card he will break the law however he chooses and the fact of the matter is, no one in the republican party will give a damn about it. he owns the libs. >> we have businessman elon musk playing a role with this transition, including having him attend meetings with foreign leaders. we have a son, jared kushner, who served in the first trump white house, reportedly received $2 billion in investments from the saudi government public

investment fund. now he will reportedly be outside adviser to trump on the middle east. are you worried about a lack of guardrails both in terms of corruption and generally being able to profit from the presidency or adjacency to the presidency? >> that is a concern, it is a real thing. what ties it in with the larger conversation is that part of these ethics things and basic ways you engage with government to prevent people exploiting it, also to have some degree of good governance, good transition, enough information, basic norms, you have the law and the norms on top of it, which is how people behave one of the things being democratic right now is that they will not follow the norms. to some extent, maybe that is okay, some norms. updated or change, the big thing is, they will not follow them for a few reasons, the most important one is that they don't have to. part of the reason they don't have to is because of what, not just elon musk himself but the broader right-wing media echo chamber and landscape reflects

which is, it is so big, it gives them narrative dominance and squashing power. they can define what most of the country talks about on any given day so they can distract, deflect, draw attention to all kinds of other trumped up charges against generals because they are so high on their own supply of misinformation, that is the big story of the day. they can also squelch, they have these flareups or moments or three or four months from now we find out this lack of ethics pledge has led to a bunch of corruption during this time period from a whole range of individuals, all the way down to real serious national security threats because of improper hand over. they will squelch it, nobody will talk about it and nobody will know about it. the lack of a kind ability isn't just in terms of the law, also public opinion. that, to me, is the real thing that scares me, they have of the system that is designed not

just to smash status quo, smash the norms, including ones that we need for our own safety and security, but to enable it and facilitate it, the right-wing media echo chamber, that is what scares me, there is no safety net, let alone guardrails . >> danielle, you are nodding your head vigorously. chime in . >> everything he said is 100% correct. april the infrastructure the left has not. they have all of these people from the levels of podcaster, tiktok influencers, all the way up to an entire network called fox that has been amplifying their messages for the last nine years. ever since donald trump came down the escalator, all of the media has been entrapped in is everything he is doing, where is he moving, what is happening? everything has been about reaction, nothing has been about, what is the narrative the american people want, what is it we want to hear? this is why people are tapping out because they are exhausted. the reason for the exhaustion is because steve bannon said,

throw everything at the wall and see what sticks, flood the zone and that is what they have been successful doing. this is a problem that right now, over the next several years, that the left, progressives, democrats actually need to think about. instead of moving to the center, this elusive center that does not exist anymore, they need to be thinking about what does our infra structure look like and how do we hit the ground running? because we are nine years behind. >> everyone here is sticking around because the worst of the week is up next.

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let me tell you something about matt gaetz, he is hard- nosed, he knows the constitution, he loves the constitution. contrary to the fact that merrick garland, who could care less about the constitution of the law almost daily, you talk about a contrast there. the attorney general has to be the head law enforcement officer in the country to protect our country and president. >> that was senator tommy tuberville of alabama throwing his support behind matt gaetz, throwing merrick garland, who is confirmed by the senate as a judge who interprets the constitution, and in the process, catapulting himself into our very worst of the week. yes, tommy tuberville is pushing for donald trump's pick for attorney general, even though matt gaetz was once

apparently angled up in sex trafficking in investigation by the same department has been tapped to lead. unless you are trump himself, this is a very unpopular take amongst most republicans who have signaled matt gaetz will not be confirmed in the senate. if that wasn't enough, tuberville also had this to say a full week after election night. >> one of the things that i really want to do is straighten this dang voting up across our country. we did not get killed down ballot but let me tell you something, donald trump pulled out more people to vote for him and how in the world can some of these senators, that is all i've looked at, i'm sure a lot of it happened in the house, some of these senators received more votes, the democrats, then president trump. it doesn't add up to how this went about. >> my dude, the republicans

just won the presidency and the senate and kept control of the house and yet, tommy tuberville is still pushing election fraud conspiracies. yes. my panel is back with me to break this down. rick, what to say about this, how does tommy tuberville benefit from praising donald trump's selection of matt gaetz were ag will continuing to push election conspiracy theories? >> the most important thing to realize is tommy tuberville is a moron, catastrophically stupid person. easily defeat him in a battle of wits. he understands one thing that he does well is to be a trump sympathetic. the fact he is talking about supporting matt gaetz for attorney general, a guy not just involve the prior investigation but current house investigation concerning his involvement having paid teenage prostitutes through venmo and having shown a number of his

colleagues on the house floor a variety of obscene materials. the guy is a degenerate. tommy knows that donald trump is his sort of sponsor so he has a enough kind brain action, what does trump want today? so he will suck up about matt gaetz. tommy is a perennial favorite on worst of the week, obviously. >> angelo, is this just sycophantic display of loyalty or is there some strategic here, is tommy tuberville trying to raise his profile with the right-wing of the base? some of the comments were made on far right social media platforms in addition to traditional conservative outlets like fox, is there a grand plan here? >> i don't know if there is a grand plan but a little bit of instinct. because the landscape is so fragmented, it used to be the

case that you get yourself on fox, you will get the attention of the right people, trump included, send him a nice note, let him know that your care and you're out there and should consider you for some reward. it is a lot harder now. trump is only watching fox, reduced his fox consumption, right-wing media, the right- wing is itemized. no center of gravity was right- wing media, for him, it is jockeying like a pinata burst and they are scrambling to get their share and get attention because i try to increase some of their influence. i think the way they get the influences by demonstrating their fidelity, obedience. that is where the statements come from. something else, to illustrate that they also get it . you notice he said something really disturbing the one comment about matt gaetz, not so much his defense of gaetz, the thing that stood out to me was that he said that the attorney general is there to defend the constitution and donald trump. that ties into what we were talking about before. that is post-watergate norm, we basically reoriented with the ag is designed to do, not to protect the president.

that is the thing that most appeals to trump going for and letting him know, i will be your sledgehammer in congress, you can rely on me, that is the part i find very unsettling. this is the beginning, not the end for him and he will be rewarded for it. >> danielle, talk about the sledgehammer aspect of all of this. not only did tuberville use those interviews to defend matt gaetz, maybe suggest that ag position as a public defender for the president and he also used it to threaten other republicans who might be obstacles to this. is tommy tuberville auditioning to be donald trump's muscle? >> absently, every single time you see one of the senators, one of these representatives get on any right-wing media, that is what they are doing, trying to get donald trump's favor. you get donald trump's favor, you have the committee to power and other people will listen to you. that is exactly what he is doing. the fact that you would even try to defend matt gaetz when

other republicans are coming out and saying, the man does not have the wits, he does not have the skill, he does not have the breadth to do the job of ag but also he is under investigation and has been under investigation for years. why didn't come to a head? the department of justice told the house ethics committee to stand down while they were doing their own investigation. the fact that a 17-year-old young girl has come out with her attorneys and said, yes, there were relations that were there and witnesses and this is a man we will put in charge of the department of justice, all of the threat that i see between the men donald trump nominates is violence against women. that is their bonding mode, violence against women, that is what they all have. tommy tuberville, that is what he is doing, auditioning, he wants to be in chums corner, in his ear and be important.

the way that you do that is you back whatever it is donald trump says. >> just to be clear, matt gaetz has been cleared of those charges, although, those charges have been dropped, although he has not been cleared of them to be very clear . rick, i want to get back to you, senator lindsey graham has also come out, perhaps to defend tuberville, but also to defend matt gaetz. he told fox news on thursday we should all give matt gaetz a chance. what do you make of two very influential senators falling in line? will this influence other republicans will have to vote on the gaetz nomination in due time? >> lindsey graham, every time i think he hit bottom, he keeps digging. he will base himself for any reason for donald trump, lindsey graham is the alpha sycophant of the world around trump sycophants. he sucks up to trump like an industrial water pump. this guy has nothing at all for

pride, dignity, or probity left in his body. he will say anything he things will make trump happy. in the case of matt gaetz, lindsey graham is the kind of guy that would have slept matt gaetz around and say he would never be within 1 million miles of authority when lindsey graham was john mccain's wing man. now he is donald trump's, mr. trump, can i wash your car? he will never stop demeaning himself to make trump happy. this is another way he thinks he can make trump happy. >> the whole panel is staying put because this week has been so bad there is a bonus round of the worst of the week and it is coming up and it is featuring everyone's least favorite conspiracy theorist, alex jones. stay tuned. wh about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants? wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses let's take a look at those scenarios. j.p. morgan wealth management has advisors in chase branches and tools,

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what a week, in fact, such a week it is time for worst of the week --, that honor or rather dishonor those to none

other than infowars founder, alex jones. alex jones is currently having absolute meltdown because the onion, satirical new site, bought his platform, infowars, out of bankruptcy. now, jones is calling on calvary, that would be donald trump's and elon musk to save him. according to the onion ceo, all of this started out as a joke until the bid to purchase infowars gained the support of the families of the sandy hook victims. those victims are the individuals to who jones owes nearly $1.5 billion for reluctantly calling their gun violence tragedy a hoax. now, the onion is planning on relaunching the conspiracy theory incubator as, wait for it, a parody of itself. a bankruptcy judge temporarily halted the sale, for now. if it goes through, the onion has the opportunity to do the

funniest thing ever. i think it will actually be some kind of karmic justice for the sandy hook families he tormented for years. let's go back to the panel. danielle, the sale, which needs to be approved by a bankruptcy judge, also includes jones' lucrative dietary supplements store. the onion says that it will halt the sales of those supplements immediately and joked that it will quote, boil the contents down into a single candy bar size vitamin one executive can eat to increase power or perhaps become immortal, end quote. your comment. >> this is so beautiful to me, there is not a lot of beauty and joy right now but the fact that the onion is able to do this, and i hope that it goes all the way through, it is, it is karmic for alex jones, to watch as his famed site is torched and made a joke of like he is a joke. it will be brilliant.

it is the chefs kiss to all of the things he has done. i don't think they should halt the vitamin sales, actually. i don't know, they are big, let all of the proceeds go to the families, i have no idea. my gosh. >> is this an episode of the onion making alex jones crying? >> i kind of like that. >> i love it so much and he cries a lot. speed even more from the cutting of the onion. angelo, the onion buying infowars is a creative way of battling misinformation, should we make the onion the standard bearer for the post trump landscape? >> one way to help balance the scales some of the way we deal with this is ridicule. that should not be the default but sometimes it does have to be, satire can be effective way of illustrating the absurdity of what they are saying and doing. so yeah, i think it is good.

editing we should not dismiss, there is no real power in purchasing this, there was a block maneuver here. alex jones himself acknowledged he will lose all of his production equipment, the brand that he built all this time, muscle memory and name recognition from the copyrights to his videos, they are all gone. he fully acknowledged that this will be a speed bump in the rapid weight in he disseminated misinformation. we should not discount the influence he has these days given to organize on the fringes. don't forget the news about tulsi gabbard being the dna broken alex jones' show the day before he lost it in bankruptcy. he had finally gotten to the pinnacle of what he hoped for and lost it. >> rick, we are obviously making fun of the fact the onion is a satirical news site that will purchase infowars, if the sale is approved. there something really serious here, the fact that the sandy hook families, those parents of those children who were slaughtered in that gun violence episode, also supported this.

came in and supported the onion, what you make of that and what you think of it in the landscape of these efforts to try to create guardrails around this right-wing media landscape and the president hu sits atop it? >> i love the onion guys, they are hilarious and really it communicators. satire does have its role. i think there's another thing to keep in mind, as much as we want to treat alex jones as a clownish figure who is selling generic pills on his website, he is evil. he is a dark evil person, he is a bad guy. he is a guy that spent years telling people lies that have sent them down these rabbit holes of violence and insanity and paranoia and conspiracy and he knows it is a joke, he is an actor playing a role and he knows what he is doing and that makes it worse. that makes it more evil and

dark and perverse. the idea that alex jones is somehow going to reboot the sink without his email list, without his studio, brand names, i think it is harder, as angelo said, much harder hill for him to climb out of this hole. it is a hole that i hope he stays in for a very, very long time. >> danielle, you have the last word, 30 seconds. >> the last word in general? >> i think this is beautiful, go after these bad actors in the best way that we possibly can. what the onion is doing is setting an example people need to follow. satire like we were saying, has a place here and things will get more ridiculous as we go on and folks need to be able to laugh and take action on it. >> you have been the best of my week so thank you all. and thank you to all of the viewers for making time for us. i'm melissa murray back for

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