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. if you look behind the point of a trio of maga personalities the director of national intelligence, attorney general and the u.s. secretary of defense. if you look behind the headline that have ensued and the chaos that has been the quick reaction from democrats and republicans on capitol hill. now, all of the swirling questions in news rooms, around ethics and the confirmation process and what it looks like. an obvious and intentional theme emerges. as tim snyder puts it, quote taken together trump's candidates constitute an attempt to wreck the american government. all three of trump's most high profiled picks, gabbard, pete

hegseth and matt gaetz in the things they said and the content they have in the departments that they are now going to lead and the views they have that are in stark contrast to the republicans now asked to confirm them to lead those agencies. we will start with tulsi gabard who said reportedly the west is responsible for the war in ukraine. far out of line to the views of bipartisan national security experts. >> kamala harris was in europe a few days before putin invaded ukraine. speaking clearly and loudly about how ukraine should become a member of nato. this was one of the mainince gators crossing this red line that russia, during putin's reign and before him have been the red line. and it, for any objective- minded person you can understand why they would not want nato missiles sitting in ukraine. >> so, again, whatever you think of that, you have to look

at how it squares with the views of outgoing gop senate leader mitch mcconnell and a sizeable chunk of his caucus. >> by assisting ukraine today america is directly demonstrating our commitment to the basic principals of territorial integrity and national sovereignty. changing the calculus for others considering military aggression and lowering the odds of a far costlier and far more deadly future conflicts in the process. >> then, take pete segseth. in his book he makes it clear he agrees with donald trump when donald trump says our adversaries abroad are not as big of a threat to america as the quote enemies within. he writes this, quote, the post september 11 generation of patriots spent two decades fighting enemies abroad we allowed america's domestic enemies at home to gobble up

cultural, political and spiritual territory. leftists stole a lot from us but we won't let them take this. time for round two. we won't miss this war, end quote. what does it mean for someone who sees trump's political critics and now going to be heading the pentagon as the real threat for that person to now have command and control of the u.s. military? and there is the curious case of matt gaetz. a one-man chaos agent who in the house of representatives has earned himself near universal contempt and loathing. david french writing it this way he was primarily responsible for deposing mccarthy in the fight of peak and alienated house colleague that one had to be physically restrained from attacking him on house floor. he shows explicit pictures of

his sexual partners and under investigation if he had sex with an under age girl while a member of congress. in the coming days and weeks republicans will be asked to confirm appointees that do not agree with their views and priorities and who all of the republicans know are not up to any of the jobs tapped to do. flop of that is the point, none of that is the point, is it? this is how steve bannon reacted. >> he is the fierces of the fierce warrior. firebrands of fire brands. he is going to hit the department of justice with a blow torch. that blow torch is a man named matt gaetz. >> a lot of things about bannon but at least he says it out loud, right? and saying it for years. trump's picks are part of there project that he has described

for years now, publicly, as the destruction of the administrative state. the fulfillment of a vision he has been fighting for years here he is making that point earlier today. >> we are going to burn some of the institutions down to the ground, you know why? they need to be burned down to the ground. >> that is where we start today. where else with some of our favorite reporters and friends. with me at the table, reverend al sharpton is here. tim haffey is here and joining us remotely chief political columnist, msnbc national affairs contributor. and mike schmidt is here. john, i start with you and sort of your body of bannon reporting. i think that he started with this effort which again out in

the open of destroying the administrative state. if i remember the reporting with the white board with his west wing office in the short time he was in the administration. it is meant to divide news room and having people facing their tails into the investigation into gates and gabbard's comments if they are get anything reaction from the mighty senate republicans or if hegseth's scandals. the sum of the reactions to those. it is brooder. >> i think the first time he said the deconstruction of the state. the first time he said it out loud to everybody in the word

was in february 17th where he was the trump forces were ascendants and he was interviewed. he was on stage with prives and he talked about the priorities in the trump term. he talked about nationalism in terms of foreign policy, talked about nationalism in economic policy and then the third thing he talked about was the deconstruction ever the administrative state. and the one thing that -- steve is not someone that is not only saying it out loud forever, throughout the entire -- the moment they walked through the doors there on january 2018, he is someone who is unlike donald trump well read and sophisticated thinker. when i say sophisticated i don't want anyone to think he is a good thing in some of the thoughts but he is someone who

his thought a lot about the stuff. he read his linen. that is what it is. and that is the frame that he was putting on it and it is also, importantly, these are tests of the republicans in the senate. it is not a coincidence that trump dropped the matt gaetz announcement to break up john thune's welcome party, victory party having won majority leader on the senate side on the republican senate side. it was like dropping a turd in his punch bowl. saying okay this is among the most unacceptable people you can ever put in this job. now, mr. thune, pass him please. unlike the leadership vote, secret vote, he did not want

john thune to be leader, this is not a secret vote. a public vote. now, every republican senator is facing the same dynamic they faced every other time in trump's political history which is do what i say or i will bring the wrath of maga down on you. and i think 97 his negotiation, seeing it go back and forth, recess appointments, he is testing the senate. he is trying to make it clear you will be my rubber stamp willingly or you will be my rubber stamp because i force you. trying to takeaway advice and consent from the senate and you saw john thun e last night on fox news, saying i would rather do it the normal way but the last words were nothing is off of the table. doing this by recess appointment is on the table and you can see a familiar dynamic where donald trump may end up incredibly, mind boggling getting his way on these nominees.

>> let me read you a little bit more from tim snyder on the rule of law. a modern democratic state depends upon the rule of law. before anything else is possible we have to endorse the principal that we are all governed by law and our institutions are grounded by law. it has a functional government in a specific sort where leaders with be regularly replaced with elections and allow us to live as free individuals as a rule of law. people believe in spirit of law. matt gaetz is the opposite of such a person. not just that he flouts the law himself specifically and disgustingly it is that he embodies lawlessness and counted upon to abuse the law to pursue trump's political opponents. the end of the rule of law is an essential component of a regime change. then, just to underscore tim snyder's point and, and john's.

here is how a republican, former house member now senator describes matt gaetz conduct. i play this because it is also been revealed today that mike johnson does not plan to release the ethic's report into matt gaetz. a lot of the conduct is known. it is a republican senator. >> there is a reason why no one in the conference came to defend him. we have all seen the videos he was showing on the house floor that all of us walked away from the girls he slept with. bragged he crushed ed medicine and chase it with an energy drink so he can go all night. >> so, it is important because to his point it is about humiliating the senate republicans. making them confirm that guy in the telling of another republican quote show videos of all of the girls he slept with

and crush ed medicine and chase it with energy drink so he can go all night, end quote. it is about confirming him and taking away their power or confirming him in a recess appointment what is the impact on the rule of law. >> it shows, nicolle the pair dime in this country paradigm. glad to see him go. he is nominated t. shows, again, the goal is deconstruction of the rule of law. it is beyond party and for those that are in charge versus everyone else and the president- elect positioning himself on the side of everyone else. that is a new ball game. again, not, we don't agree on policy or the right versus the

left insider or outside has a potential as a conflict to erode institutions like the rule of law. >> what happens? are you afraid they will come looking for you because of your role in the january 6th hearings? >> i think there is no question that asking questions or launching investigations even meritless ones has consequences, absolutely t. could be expensive and time- consuming for people who have not done anything wrong but exercise the rights given to them through proper channels. i am not worried about criminal or other exposure. i am worry by inconvenience and expense by the launching of the investigations. >> mike you have done incredible reporting on trump in the first term to use the justice department to retaliate

against his political rivals and how do they irraticate those hurdles? >> trump ran into two problems with weaponizing the justice department. trump is complaining to him in december of 2020 that he never prosecuted jim comey. that was something that trump tried to do throughout his entire precedency. it was something that trump tried to do himself in 2018. he wanted to go out and prosecute comey himself even though trump is not a prosecutor. so, that was the first roadblock. the second roadblock they ran into was the courts. in that case they ran into the courts in the case of andy mccabe. the former fbi director under

investigation. they took his case to a grand jury and the grand jury came back and said they weren't going to indict him. that was a roadblock there. there were no charges to be brought against mccabe because of that. the first with gaetz at the top of the justice department that roadblock that barr created on the issue of comey would be gone. you know, i don't think i am taking too many leaps to say that matt gaetz is one that would go along with exactly what donald trump wanted. that is essentially what matt gaetz'brand is. i was reading back the stories of the investigations into gaetz and i saw that the way that trump learned, first talked to gaetz was that he saw him on fox news in late 2017 rallying against the mueller investigation. he called him and said that he needed warriors or, something of that sort, to help him in

his efforts. that is exactly what gaetz did. so what i think you may see, which would be different, is more interaction between the justice department, the executive branch and the judicial branch where the justice department would try to do things and the courts would be forced to really weigh in and determine if there is merit to what the department is doing. and, we saw that in the andy mccabe case. in most cases the investigations that trump wanted were sort of never really got out the door at the justice department. they never really got through charges, they were just investigations. to tim's point there is an enormous amount to be done on the investigative front if they want to investigate something or someone. there are not a lot of checks on that in many ways. they can interview people, they can send out subpoenas, if they want a search warrant they have to go to the courts. but i think you would see here

more of the clash of the branches. the justice department trying to do things and the judicial branch forced to come in and weigh in to see if it is okay or not. >> i think the john durham investigation was constructive. he was the u.s. attorney's office within the justice department green lit by bill barr free reign over all sorts of people that trump considered as political enemies and came to trial and lost. both of them. i want to pick up that thread. i have to sneak in a quick break. matt gaetz is not the only cabinet pick that many worry will want to blow up the agency and the professionals in it once they near it. pete hegseth pass and the thoughts of the diverse military. we will tell you what the now reporting reveals tell you what reporting reveals with skyrizi, feel symptom relief at 4 weeks.

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. matt gaetz may be creating a swirl of chaos for the trump transition team but he is not alone. the shock of the selections means in terms of vetting, if there is to be any, the general public is just now beginning to catch up on the reporting, what is available in the media about all of these folks. the result, increasingly clear picture of exactly who lawmakers are going to be asked to confirm. for the most important positions in the u.s. government. take pete segseth, the fox news host who might be the next secretary of defense. early this morning to response of media inquiries the city of monterey, california received some information from a 2017 police report confirming a sexual assault investigation into hegseth, an incident that involved bruises to someone's right thigh. to be clear, no charges were

filed. the trump campaign statement on the matter reads in part, quote, mr. hegseth denied all accusations and no charges were filed. end quote. in a phone interview. the attorney said this, the police statement speaks for himself, he was cleared. there is not much more that i can say. it did not happen, end quote. all of that aside just take what hegseth said in public there is plenty. following a review of what he has written. "washington post" published they found he forcefully argued steps to incorporate women and transgender personnel in the u.s. military are eroding security and islam is a violent force threatening to overtake america and counter by a new crusade. >> may be shocking but not surprising from a person who said similar things on national television. >> the pentagon likes to say,

our diversity is our strength. what a bunch of garbage. >> i am straight up saying withy should not have women in combat roles, has not made us more effective or lethal, has made fighting more complicated. >> democrats are not . >> real quick. >> can you answer the question? >> i think i am answering the questions i am not -- i don't really feel any obligations to answer anything from you. >> you import the third world you get third world hierarchy. >> vets get every benefit they can get. a lot of groups are convincing vets to get, take more from the system as opposed to just what you need for the service you gave >> i don't think i washed my hands for 10 years. really, i don't wash my hand moose someone help me. >> everyone is back, rev? [ laughter ] >> reporter: if he has not washed his hands for 10 years i don't know if i want to see him have lunch at the pentagon with

people. but i think that it is frightening. to see this kind of person, with these kinds of views. anti-women and proud of it anti- muslim and proud of it and we are going to put him over the defense of all of the countries? so, women being in the military has not improved the military but you trust us to defend all women and men. i mean how outrageous is that? this is 2024. and rather than somebody like that being isolated as someone who did not come in the 21st century we are going to make him the secretary of defense and succeed the first and only black secretary of defense. that is how donald trump thinks. >> i, again, i mean, the pentagon is the crown jewel not just of the u.s. government i would say with the rule of law

and our role in gathering and sort of coordinating intelligence to protect us and national allies. trump can elect anyone he wants. but he can't afford to have the military not like this pick. and, there are a lot of women in the military. the military, i believe, i know it is the most diverse federal workforce. it might be the most diverse workforce in the country. and trump can't have the military tear itself apart. amy mcgraght said if mille and mccrystal and kelly are court- martialed it court-martialed, it would tear the military apart.

and how much of this is a figurehead. >> reporter: boy, a lot to say there, nicolle. i looked this up yesterday because i was curious. 2.8 million people work for the united states department of defense. 2.8 million people. the largest workforce in the united states. and one of the largest in the world. i am not sure what is bigger anywhere in the world. i know it is that number. it is extraordinary. 864 billion dollars a year budget, $864 billion. not the black budget that makes the budget of the pentagon unlimited. so, this goes back to one of the things that we were talking about before. if you ask the question and you want to like talk about pete hegseth is he qualified to run the defense department the answer is obviously no. it is one of the most -- i mean

for generations it is the hardest cabinet position, it is, you know, a monstrosity. so enormous. it kills people, causes people to have nervous break downs trying to run it. historically it is true. we were talking about it today. he is obviously not qualified. he is not qualified to run it. he is qualified to ruin it it. he is qualified to ruin it for people who feel limited by the unpredictability of generalized myasthenia gravis and who are anti-achr antibody positive, season to season, ultomiris is continuous symptom control,

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you can treat it anytime, anywhere, without worrying where you are, or if it's too late. don't take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with you. ask about ubrelvy. learn how abbvie could help you save. . "new york times" bestselling author, my colleague and dear friend rachel maddow is here. where to start. you go. [ laughter ] well, i don't know, i don't know where to start. i do feel like, nicolle, you more than anyone has been very clear-eyed. about what was coming and what was being promised here and no

reason to expect it to be moderated or normal or tack back to the center or look like traditional american politics you did your series. and, listen, we saw what was going to happen and now it is happening. so, i feel like it is a moment for people to get real and for people to stop saying it will be more moderate than anyone expected. when are you going to start apologizing saying democracy has been threatened. but i also think the fact that we all feel a little bit, i don't know if flumaxes, rocked by the choices but it is meant to shock us. it is meant to adjust our normal and disorient us for what it means for governance in the united states that we are

ready for the most radical pronouncements and actions. and i do think that we are supposed to feel the way we do right now. it is part of this. a shock and awe campaign against american traditions. and that is how most of the country feels about it. >> i think so sort of sustain the military analysis the iraq war starts with the shock and awe. the war is a catastrophe. it does not bring confidence, does not signal he will succeed in successfully demolishing democracy but it does mean that we, the press, every time chase the shiny objects this time matt gaetz, tulsi gabbard and pete hegseth. tomorrow, or by 9:00 they will have other shiny objects. the movement is propelled by

hatred of the democratic party and promise to delivery on the economy and immigration. the people in charge of those two things. one is an alleged child sex trafficker and the other by her own telling a dog killer. that is where he gets bull ocks up. >>. >> reporter: i think the idea of the a authoritarian process you don't put a robert f. kennedy jr in charge of hhs because you are hoping for great things from hhs. i mean matt gaetz, all of the things withy can say, he proposed abolishing the justice department. not just abolishing the fbi and the atf but talking about

abolishing the justice department. tulsi gabbard as the director of national intelligence. the idea that tulsi gabbard in a normal stance to get security clearance to be a walmart-style greeter at a agency let alone get passed the security barriers is insane. you do it because you want the worst for the agencies and the worst for the u.s. government because you think the u.s. government is worthless. consolidating u.s. power. making them nothing other than the leader and do what he is as and not being expertise let alone, you know, just general day to day know how anywhere. so, it is a sort of, i mean, steve bannon used to say it is a leninist program. this is the cabinet that you nominate not to run the u.s. government to do anything but

to destroy the u.s. government. so the u.s. government can be fundamentally reimagined for a authoritarian or autocratic process. the firing of jim comey to see to it to let mike flynn go, he says no, trump embarks on a four year long crusade against the fbi and the department of justice. to your points, matt gaetz will be in charge of the department and a named person to replace his last hand pick. he threatened jerome powell saying it is illegal for him to replace me. where do you expect any friction between trump 2.0 and the institutions that stand? >> reporter: well, the first

one is going to happen over the question not of the appointment of any particular nominee, not of the confirmation process for any nominee. but if there will be a confirmation process for nominees. right? the first point of confrontation will be between trump and the republican- controlled senate. it is going to be over the basic question of whether or not the senate has any role in confirming the nominees, right? trump will have to go to very arcane, very unusual and untested corners of the constitution and precedent to find any way that he can shutdown the house and senate himself. he is going to tell republicans in congress to shut themselves down. thus marginalizing themselves as one of the cohesive branches of government to set up the executive branch himself without anyone having a say about it. now, why would you want to do that rather than just have all

of your nominees confirmed by the senate? i am sure the republicans in the senate would be happy to do. you want them not to have a roll in the confirmation process because you want the legislative branch to shrivle, go that is why you want the appointment. even guaranteed senate confirmation for even the craziest of the folks. >> your new yorker piece is also about a defining feature of autocrats. how might that be a rub? >> yeah, i mean, this is, i think, just something for us in the media to keep in mind and something for us to be aware of what we can learn from other countries and learn of the american experiments with this

in the past. autoarecrats always steal, why bother get rid of the rule of law if you can't steal from the country blindly. it happens all of the time and with all of our american demagogues throughout history, they all have been corrupt and stolen from the people who, in some cases persuaded to vote for them. no reason to expect it will be different particularly the way the run up to this next term for trump has gone. and it is, it is worth being aware of that both in terms of self-protection, watch your wallet. and it is worth us being focused on in terms of looking out for stuff looking out for the establishment of an american oligarch that is not just scary because it is unaccountable power but it is stealing the country out from under us. they do it in other countries and everywhere, it is our job

to document it. >> rachel, our north star on and off of the air and someone who says every time we talk on and off of tv that these jobs are such a tremendous privilege. i thought about that and repeated that to my team and staff and myself more than a few times over the last 10 days, thank you very much for the privilege of getting to talk to you. of getting to talk to you.

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[ screeching ] [ chuckling ] [ vocalizing ] that's a choice. [ vocalizing ] think of what we could do together. . for the veterans out there that suffer from ptsd, for the single moms, working two jobs and raising their three kids. for the dad that have to miss bedtime because they want to work that extra shift.

for the kids sleeping on the floor dreaming about a better, better america, and a better, better future, this victory is for you. thank you, arizona. [ cheers and applause ] that is what winning looked like on tuesday night. democrats looking for under the couch cushion-reasons to be optimistic this weekend and hopeful and does not have to look farther than that. his victory is impressive considering trump won arizona. same story in michigan, nevada and wisconsin, states that sent trump to the white house but democrat to the united states senate. north carolina went red in the presidential contest but chose a democrat to be the state's governor and reproductive rights of the seven stays that approved rights three went for trump for president. something to keep in mind for

those starting to peek ahead at the road forward for democrats. appropriately one of those democrats road mapping the party's future right now is kentucky governor andy beshear. he writes this, quote, while others are talking about political strategy and messaging the way forward is really about focus and action. the next several years are the democratic party's chance to show the american people that we will not just run on but govern by addressing the core issue that can and will improve the lives of our people. and, perhaps, the best part, these core issues and concerns are not partisan. addressing them helps democrats and republicans alike. there is, that is a path forward for both the democratic party and for the country that we love. joining our conversation is democratic governor of kentucky andy beshear. thank you for joining us. >> good to see you, too. tell us more about the piece that you wrote, people saw it

as chicken soup for the soul on tuesday night for the folks hoping the results would be different. >> reporter: well, i was disappointed by the results. i supported the vice president. i think she ran a really hard race and tried her very best. my piece is not about looking back on the election but forward. it is that idea when people wake up in the morning they are not thinking about politics they are thinking about their job and if they make enough to support their family and the next doctor appoint for themselves or parents or kids. the roads and the bridges they drive each day, what traffic is going to be like, the public school they drop their kids off at and thinking about public safety in their communities. and, see, if you don't feel secure about those things you don't get anything else. you don't get to whatever the issue of the day is in washington, d.c. you don't get to any crazy thing that a politician said today or yesterday. and, so my piece is about

recommitting to waking up every single day and showing the american people that this is what we are focused on. that, yes, we will stand up for important values, we will push back against discrimination, we will try to expand opportunity all over the united states. but people should know that every day we are working on creating better paying jobs, reducing the cost of health care, making sure our roads and bridges are safer, creating a world class education for our kids and making everybody not just safer but feel safer. those are the core things regardless if you are a democrat, republican or independent you have to feel satisfied and secure before you can reach anything else. >> you mentioned safety and feeling safe and security. just say a little bit more about where you think the democratic deficiencies are on those gut issues. >> reporter: well, i think we have to recognize that you can't just give folks

statistics about where violent crime is. you have to listen. you have to listen about if people feel safe. at a time we are talking just about physical health and mental health if you don't feel safe in your community it has a real impact on you. and then we got to make sure that we take steps to address those concerns. so, when we think about the different path forward i hope we are always listening first. that we are talking to people and not at them. that we meet folks where they are. and that we make sure that we don't ever dismiss how somebody feels, even if we disagree with it. we hear them out and then we try to find that common ground and we apply common sense. i wrote in my piece out trump just won kentucky 30 points just one year after i won it by 5 points. if you look at it inflation has gotten better over that period of time. but i think in kentucky when i

ran people saw that not only did i support policies that would create new jobs but we were actually doing it. you know, we opened the cleanest, greenest recycling center, and building two facilities in glendale. people might not believe what politicians say or what is in their platforms my ads had me standing in front of those two massive facilities and people certainly believe what they can see and feel and touch. it is about priority. it is about focus. if we are talking about what donald trump said today and the issue of the day in washington and jobs we are only talking a third of our time about jobs. and so when people see how we spend the time that we have to communicate with them, they just got to see that our major priorities are the things that

they care about the most. this has been prime time weekend. i'm nicolle wallace, tune into prime time on all of our shows weekdays on msnbc all of our shs weekdays on msnbc ♪ keeping my plans, i'm feeling free. ♪ ♪ control of my uc means everything to me. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ now, i'm back in the picture. skyrizi helps deliver relief, repair, and remission in uc. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks, including fewer bowel movements and less bleeding. skyrizi is proven to help visibly repair colon lining damage, and help people achieve remission at 12 weeks and 1 year. don't use if allergic. serious allergic reactions, increased infections or lower ability to fight them may occur. before treatment, get checked for infections and tb. tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms, or vaccines. liver problems leading to hospitalization may occur when treated for uc.

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♪ ♪ ask you ♪ something has right changed within me ♪ ♪ it's time to try defying gravity ♪ ♪ ♪ okay. donald trump has revealed his picks for key cabinet roles. even members of his own party our shocks. today, we will