that satisfies my soul. my soul didn't say to god, they prayed to the mob boss, but when you grow mature, sometimes you find new things to pray to point shawn, i'm so glad to have you here, thank you again. it's a little busy in america, but i would love to [ inaudible ]. a new documentary, "the honorable shyne", out now. that does it for us, you can always connect with me online at re melber.com or unsocial is point. >> [ music ] tonight on the readout, >> she texted me late last night, regardless of how many times he tries to distract from the truth, the public deserves to know what we all experienced was real and actually happened. >> [ music ]

through their lawyer, two women say they told the house ethics committee that attorney general nominee matt gaetz paid them for sex, and he had sex with a woman who was then 16 point while that ethics report ever see the light of day? also tonight, trumps retribution to work, targeting america's military officers, broadcasters, and many others who he perceives as the enemy. plus, the great migration. twitter/x users are making the move to blue sky, one of the biggest upheavals and social media history point >> good evening, i'm jason johnson in for joy reid grid it has been just 13 days since the election. donald trump has already set a modern record for announcing his pics to serve in his incoming administration. but as he may be learning, there is a reason that president elects take their time to research and actually

vet each pick, because just as quickly as he can make the announcements, the controversies are piling up and calling into question some of his choices to fill the most high-profile and sensitive jobs running our country. over the weekend, we learned that trump's pick for defense secretary, pete hegseth, who we already told you would be the least experience presentable that roe in our nation's history paid an woman an undisclosed amount of money after she accused him of assault, according to hegseth's own lawyer. his lawyer says hegseth maintains his innocence and that the encounter was consensual. that isn't even the biggest i problem facing one of trump's cabinet pics. remember, it has only been 13 days. that honor goes to trump's pick the attorney general, former congressman matt gaetz, who hada been under investigation by the house ethics committee for roughly three years over allegations of sexual misconduct involving a 17-year- old girl miand illicit drug use

he has denied the allegations and tried to keep the committee's report from coming up by resigning last week once a trumpet named gaetz as his pick for ag. a committee plans to meet on wednesday to discuss the report and just what to do with it. but as we wait to see whether they will release it and what it says, we will hear from the lawyer representing two women who testified to both federal and house ethics investigators about his alleged misdeeds, including one claim that one of them saw him having sex with her underage friend. >> one of the first things that happened [ inaudible ] within minutes of arriving, she was introduced to matt gaetz and they went upstairs and had t sexual intercourse on the bed, after which she went downstairs. at some point, she was walking outside to go to the pool area, and to the right, she witnessed representative gaetz having sex with her friend who was 17 at the time.

>> a representative for gaetz declined to address specific questions about nbc's interview with the lawyer, but earlier had described the allegations as baseless and intended to derail the second trump administration. as to that house ethics report, yesterday, speaker mike johnson stood by his comments that it should remain hidden, saying that releasing it would open up a pandora's box, even while multiple republican senators say they actually want to see it. >> my understanding is that the report is not finished, it is in a rough draft form, was not yet ready to be released, and since matt gaetz left the congress, i don't think it is appropriate to do so. the senate has a role under the constitution, and they will perform it. they will have a rigorous review and vetting process in the senate, but they don't need to rely upon a report or draft report or rough draft report that was prepared by the ethics committee for its very limited purposes. >> in a clear sign that is not

lost on trump how controversial this pick is, axios is reporting that now president-elect is personally calling senators to try and force his ag pick past the finish line. me not to discuss is msnbc political analyst and former congressman david jolly and strategist and msnbc political analyst, greetings, gentlemen, it is good to speak with you. david, i will start with you, because this is the thing, we are looking at these cabinet pics. yes, we can all say that they are not qualified, but i want ie to start with hegseth. this person is a fox news commentator who has never run anything, who has never been in a serious position of command, who may or may not have tattoos that suggest right-wing, white nationalist sympathies. how is it that this administration, incoming administration, with a very, very, very slim lead in the

popular vote, and votes are still being counted, thinks they have enough of a political capital to push through somebody like this? what could be the mind-set the republicans have to try to push this person into this position r with this slim a majority? >> because donald trump have proven time and time again that the republican party is loyal bl to him. i think hegseth sales through, i know that sounds crazy, but there are just enough ug republican senators that will blindly wrap themselves in the p fact that hegseth has 20 years in the national guard, and will overlook any other true questions of fitness or administration. and i think that what is common among all of the nominees, which is so unsettling, as they are each kind of activist nominees. right? in past administrations, as you know well, jason, the nominees are typically administrators, maybe with executive experience, the ability to run a largey agency, they're not really activist nominees. in each one of these cases, you were talking about nominees with their own agenda, their

own activism, and most of that activism is typically to turn on the department there due to lead and try to dismantle it and break it down. hegseth, another reason he willo likely sell through, 20 years in republican politics, a former republican senate candidate, paid to privatize the va, he knows how to speak republican senate language. >> basil, i want to move to the other highly problematic person here. so, we have matt gaetz who is up for ag, there are dozens of reasons that would be problematic, but nbc news is reporting the majority of senate republicans doubt he will be confirmed.ou they privately say they don't see a path for the former florida representative, according to a number of republican sources. i don't buy it. i sort of agree with david here, i think most of these republicans are not going to care, but what is your thought on this? do you think that this sort of

[ inaudible ] unhappy republicans is going to result in matt gaetz actually being rejected for this position? >> let me just say something very quickly, because i was stopped by a marine the other day, not active-duty, who said that his big concern about this pick is around women and people of color being promoted within the military. which, for him to stop me on the street and say that suggest that there are some real concerns, not just from us on the outside kind of looking in, but even from within the ranks of the military, that there is some real concern and hesitation in the spirit so, i just want to put that on the table. but to answer your question specifically, the senator said last week, they wanted to see this report, and he said specifically, he wanted to see it so that donald trump would not be embarrassed. that might be what they say, but what they also might be feeling is that, hey, they have got reputations also.

a lot of them are up for re- election soon, so maybe we do need to take a step back and look. whether or not that ends up making him untenable and un- confirmable, if you will, at the end of the day, it remains to be seen. but i think they have to look at this very carefully and figure out if they themselves are going to have to spend a lot of time defending him and themselves if they let this confirmation go through. >> as the kids say, [ inaudible ] i don't think they are going to have any problem with this whatsoever, unfortunately. dave, i want to take this back to you. as much as i load, i have no interest and will not spend the next four years discussing court entry in the trump administration, we are a news program, i'm not trying to do that sort of thing, but i do think that if matt gaetz is not confirmed as attorney general, it is not going to be because of any ethics investigation, it

is not going to be because he is not qualified, it is going to be because you spent all this time personally insulting the people will have to vote him into office. the new york times has a headline talking about all the names and insults that gaetz has thrown at people. he called mitch mcconnell dangerous and said mark and ray mcmullen is a disgrace to the republican party, and john curtis, he is mitt romney without the good hair. as someone who served in congress, people have long memories. do you think that might actually be -- i mean, no one will publicly say i'm not going to vote for the because he made fun of me, but that to me it seems much more likely than the ethics charges as being what blocks them from getting in. >> you hit on something very important. matt gaetz is absolutely no friends in washington at exactly the time that he needs them. he has no friends. and part of it is people want to distance themselves from the gross allegations that have been levied against him, allegations that apparently have a lot of validity to that. and the other, though, is also he is entirely unfit, and it is just a bad pick by donald

trump. this is someone with no experience as assistant u.s. attorney or within the department of justice or as a prosecutor, no executive experience to run an agency like the department of justice, and it is known he is only there to prosecute the enemies list that donald trump once prosecuted and he will do whatever donald trump asks. i think the important thing here, and basil referred to the legacy of the republican senators will have to take these votes. 48% of the country, statistically within the margin of those who actually won the election as voters, i would say the critical debates, the critical fights, the critical contests around these nominees is so important. this is not a time to lose energy, this is not a time to provide equity to donald trump. this is a time to laser focus on the nominees, but also the senators, and make sure that voters know that the senators are facing a tough vote on this one, and hold everybody accountable, even if you're on l the losing side of the boat. >> basil, i want to move to

another one of these potential nominees. so, trump says he is going to be naming former wisconsin rep sean duffy to be transportation secretary good luck, i am a gen xer, i don't hold anything against anybody who spent time in the real world, well maybe a couple, but this is another example of someone whose primary experience seems to be being on television and being on fox news. now, as somebody who was critical, and i will say this with all humility, as somebody who was critical of pete buttigieg getting the job, he actually did a good job as transportation secretary and stepped in and made some important policy, so sometimes people can oppress us who we may have been critical of, but john duffy seems to be yet another example of somebody who has no knowledge whatsoever of the area that he would be responsible for at a time where transportation is key. we will be heading into summer travel. what do you think about this and what is the possibility that he, too, could run into some difficulties down the road? >> yeah, i don't know that he

runs into any difficulty. i don't see anything outside of what we just talked about, i don't know that there is anything disqualifying him, because donald trump wants him, so he may actually just get it, right? but i take your point. i had pete buttigieg speak at a college when i was teaching there, and he engaged the students, and he was really brilliant on talking about the infrastructure bill, talking about resiliency, talking about all of the jobs that would be created as a result of that bill, like he was very, very good i do not see this transportation secretary actually being able to talk about that, talking about what climate change brings to our transportation concerns going forward. and by the way, just as other point that needs to get raised. in all of project 2025 in every agency, what is one of the common threads, is the taking out of anything related to equal opportunity and d.e.i. so, all of those subcontracts, any of the minority and women

owned business contracts that may come from the major monies that are available in the department of transportation, all of that is gone. and that is one thing [ inaudible ]. >> david, i want to bring you to project 2025, like basil just mentioned. one of the big push is in this sort of huge policy paper, the specialist of republicans, are massive cuts to regulation, massive cuts to government agencies, so we are looking at a situation where whether it is sean duffy, matt gaetz, hegseth, these people will be taking over agencies that are probably understaffed, which will place even more responsibility on them to manage it.bi how might that play out in a very negative way for the american people? >> it is a great point. look, there is actually very little that donald trump could d do without the congress when it comes to cutting these agencies, even regulations have to go through a public process. the question is does he ignore

those and do his cabinet secretaries ignore those? by the time donald trump figured out how to be president, he realized i don't want any secretaries, i want acting secretaries, because then i have all the power within the executive office of the presidency, and him and stephen miller and others can make the decisions about policy and about cuts. but there may be a fight actually even with republicans on capitol hill if they try to exact the type of cuts they are talking about. you would have a government that was unable to function. e and congressional leaders, appropriators know that, and i am not sure donald trump does, and certainly elon musk doesn't. >> if i could say just very quickly, sorry, that is an incredible point. how many republicans went back to their districts and took credit for the things that joe biden did? so, if you can't take credit for anything your own president did, that is a problem. >> david jolly and basil, thank you so much for starting us off today. coming up, trump's day 1 continues to come into focus. with the future president

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you are carrying out a targeted enforcement operation, grandma is in the house, she is undocumented. does she get arrested, too? >> that depends, let the judge decide. >> america is for americans and americans only. >> that was just a sampling of

the folks who will implement donald trump's immigration policy, beginning in two short months. and by immigration policy, we need mass deportation. that last bit you heard, by the way, was declared by trump's soon to be deputy chief of staff, stephen miller, at the recent madison square garden rally for trumpet and echoes the slogan in germany for germans only, which was used by the nazis during world war ii. so yeah, that is where america is circa 2024. as for trump, we know very well where he stands. earlier this month, conservative activist tom posted on x/twitter, "good news, reports are the incoming trump administration is prepared to declare a national emergency and will use military assets to reverse the biden invasion through a mass deportation program." this morning, trump share the post, simply confirming the plan by writing one word, true.

aclu has filed a lawsuit, seeking details on transplant for mass deportation. aclu executive director anthony romero released a statement right -- late today, it read in part, "as we ready litigation and create firewalls for freedom across the states, we must also sound the alarm that what is on the horizon will change the very nature of american life for tens of millions of americans." joining me now to discuss is maria teresa kumar, president and ceo of [ inaudible ] latino, and bethany lee, director of the asian american legal defense and education fund. thank you so much for both of you joining me today. bethany, i will start with you. there is a report out today on nbc news talking about asian deportations, specifically chinese nationals who are in this country, people waiting for their immigration status is to finally be sort of stabilized. the idea being that donald trump's deportations may not just start with what people

perceive to be undocumented people standing outside, looking for work. they will be targeting people who thought they were here under secure and legal means, and those will be snatched from under them by this new administration, and they will be kept out. how is that particularly sort of targeting the asian american community? >> yeah, thank you for that question, and we know that anti- china rhetoric under the first trump administration was skyhigh, and we expect the same and more in this next trump administration, unfortunately. and there are so many pressing concerns when we talk about immigration and undocumented immigration and undocumented immigrants in this country, and there are three things to us that are top of mind. first, to us, we know that in the asian american community, families will be torn apart. we saw that under the first trump administration, we saw that, we still remember the horrific scenes with kids crying in cages, and the reality is when we talk about

undocumented immigrants, we are not talking about the faraway border. we are talking about actually the fact that every day americans, everyone is going to be impacted. why? this is my second point. undocumented immigrants and workers are the backbone of our economy. whether we are talking about restaurants or nail salons or the grocery store. we interact with undocumented immigrants all the time. and so, when we are talking about the economy, what we will see is that prices will go up, grocery prices will go up, because when trump carries out his plan to deport millions of americans, millions of undocumented immigrants, including chinese communities, southeast asian communities, what that will mean is that we will see that impacting our everyday lives. and third, what we are really paying attention to is those who are most vulnerable. again, under the first trump

administration, what that meant for the asian american community is that john bodie ends nearly overnight found the deportation rates quadrupled. so, we are paying particular attention to many of these communities. not just southeast asians, but also undocumented chinese people. >> thank you for that clarity, because i think it is also important that people recognize how many different kinds of people are affected by this. maria teresa, this is one thing that gets me, because we heard about this through the election, we heard various communities saying i don't know if i think it is going to affect me, but i want you to talk about the idea that because we are dealing with this incoming administration, these people are not surgeons, their axe murderers. so, they're going to be going to large communities and saying, hey, we want john smith, we want philippe a juarez, come downstairs, you are being deported. the person is going to come downstairs and say you want

philippe etsy juarez, that may or may not be me, i was wanted in austin, texas. they are not going to be particularly careful about who they are departing, they're just going to grab people by name. >> not at all. let's set the table, one in five american families have someone that is an undocumented a loved one, they know someone, so this is not siloed. the idea that they're going to go after criminals, well technically, you cross the border, you have broken the law, are you a criminal? and the only way you could actually identify the criminals is by going to worksite. right here, what you saw with anthony romero when he was flagging that blue states are starting to figure out -- are mapping what they are going to do, [ inaudible ] gavin newsom, the governor of massachusetts, the governor of illinois, they're all discussing how they are going to safeguard their undocumented communities, their immigrant communities, because one of the things we do know that trump does very well, is that he unleashes terror against his adversaries, and in

this case, it is blue states. do you recall when there were fires in california and he did not want to go ahead and provide relief to californians because he said they were blue and didn't vote for him? that is the capricious nature of donald trump. and what we are also going to see is that the investment in beds and detention camps, they're going to be in places like texas. there's going to be a different source of revenue and it is going to be basically indentured servitude, because what no one is saying is that under trump, he did process people within three months, he held them in captivity. so, when we talk about the undocumented issue that we have, yes, it is workers, but he intends to incarcerate workers and basically pay them literally slave labor wages. if you look at how many folks in the detention system to get paid a dollar, two dollars a day for working, that is obscene, but some groups are going to make billions of dollars off the sweat and labor of broken families. >> we are going to be talking about this for a long time, but

we have to go from this segment. maria teresa kumar and bethany lee, thank you so much for that sobering look of what is going to be happening in the next two months. coming up, trump's threats of vengeance and retribution against his political foes are coming into focus as those targets rates for his second administration. that and more when we come back on the reid out. >> [ music ] >> [ music ] (children speaking)

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donald trump and republicans say they have a mandate to do whatever they want. it is now clear that whatever they want includes punishing anyone who may have done something that they personally objected to when they were not in powerpoint nbc news is reporting that the trump transition team is compiling a list of current and former u.s. military officers who were directly involved in the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan, and exploring if they could be court-martialed. mind you, donald trump ordered the same plant just after he lost in 2020. it was never executed because it didn't follow proper protocol. last week, the wall street journal reported that trump's team is also working on a plan to create a panel that would have the power to review and fire three and four star generals and officers deemed unfit for leadership. autocratic purges and prosecutions should worry everyone, not just people in government.

but it is particularly concerning for the folks at the department of justice and the fbi. according to nbc news, multiple current and former senior justice department and fbi officials have begun reaching out to lawyers in anticipation of being criminally investigated either trump administration. now, officials who spoke to nbc said these cases would not work as investigations into trump were legal, but that is not the point. anyone who has been paying attention to trump knows that he is litigious, because while he won't lose, he enjoys inflicting maximum pain and humiliation, which is the whole point of his retribution torpid joining me now to discuss is tom nichols, staff writer for the atlantic. tom, thank you for joining me today. i'm going to start with this, your latest piece, i thought was fantastic. you laid out in particular four different members of the incoming administration who shouldn't be voted for, but in particular, i want you to talk

a little bit about hegseth, the potential ahead of the department of defense, because the idea that this man would be in charge of investigating and purging the generals from the u.s. government is probably one of the most dangerous prospects that we face in the next two months. >> right, and the problem is that while he is doing that and while he is pursuing this trumpian fantasy of destroying the officer corps and rebuilding it as a non-woke, you know, spartan force, he is supposed to be running a department -- the biggest department in the government, and taking care of 2 million people in uniform. not to mention that he is also supposed to be helping to safeguard the security of the country by being the secretary of defense, being in the chain of command, being in the nuclear chain of command, and the whole thing is just a nightmarish kind of fantasy about punishing people that

donald trump just happens to hate. i think it is really important to point out, jason, none of this has anything to do with wokeness or afghanistan or anything like that, this is about donald trump basically trying to terrify senior officers into personal loyalty to donald trump. to say if you don't swear loyalty to me, i will find a way to get retribution on you, even if you retire, even if you leave the service, i will find some way to reach out and touch you. and i think a lot of this is just an attempt to get at people like mark milley and others that trump felt obstructed him from doing terrible things while he was president. next i want to play you some sound from senator kramer of north dakota and his thoughts on this panel about afghanistan is sort of this retribution tour, get your thoughts on the other side. >> discussions are going on about at least a commission to investigate the catastrophic cut and run from afghanistan.

which could mean it could go as far as treason, i don't want to prejudge anything. but in your judgment as an armed services committee member, what do you think, should there be an investigative commission, one was never done, nobody was ever fired as far as i know, what you make of this, senator kramer? >> well, first of all, larry, i like the idea of doing it, because your point, it has really never been looked into with a lot of information. >> so, first, i want to debunk the lie there. what they failed to mention is that afghanistan's withdrawal was investigated by foreign affairs committee chair, by texas representative of mike mccall, they released a report on the afghanistan withdrawal, which was the culmination of a three-year investigation by republicans, so we know this committee is not going to do anything but harass people. but how might that impact, tom, he was sort of talking about it

before, arresting people that may have already been retired, arresting people that are already inside, also talk about what is the cost of this? how are you able to run the country if you're going to spend the first three to six months in office going after everybody who you think i gave you a funny look when you weren't in power? that's going after everybody who's day job is supposed to be defending the country, rather than figuring out how to lawyer up against the secretary of defense and a commander-in-chief for reasons that are known only to them. you're absolutely right. if senator kramer doesn't know that this was deeply investigated, exhaustively investigated, that is senator kramer's problem, that makes you wonder what he has been doing while he is on the armed services committee, but also point out, he thinks it is a good idea to investigate u.s. military officers for treason? because of a military operation? that is really, you know,

something that, again, violates this kind of impact, the norms of 250 years of civil military relations, the kind of tradition given to us by george washington, and it just goes out the door because the incoming president-elect says i have some people i have to settle some scores with. it is detrimental not just to american society, but to american security, and i think people shouldn't sleep well, inking that the department of defense is basically getting torn apart because donald trump wants to get even with some people who stopped him from doing some terrible things. >> the idea of working for the federal government and bureaucracy is supposed to be the idea that you would be protected from retribution from an incoming administration. tom nichols, thank you so much for joining us and clarifying that tonight on the reid out. coming up, election conspiracies are running rampant online. we will debunk the latest disinformation. that is next on the reid out. >> [ music ] music ]

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since 2020, we have seen election to nihilism become part of the republican party's brand, but by trump himself, who was pushing the baseless claims of cheating in this past election, right up until he was projected to be the winner. by now, nearly two weeks out, conspiracies about the results are still running rampant, except this time, we are seeing it on the other side of the

aisle. with some on the left questioning the validity of the results. at the center of these allegations is elon musk and his starling satellite internet provider that skeptics think was connected to voting machines and rigged the outcome in trump's favor. now, there is no evidence that any of that is true whatsoever. not to mention, the voting machines are not connected to the internet during the election process, but that hasn't stopped these false claims from spreading like wildfire on social media, garnering tens of millions of views on places like tiktok and ask and twitter, which proves that neither side of the political spectrum is immune to misinformation. so, here to help debunk some of these claims and give us the facts is a barbara byram, county clerk in ingram county, michigan. thank you so much for joining me this evening. i have been personally inundated with worried friends and relatives who have been saying what about starling and

what about overcounts and under counts, so i just want to run through some of these things with you, so we can knock these down point by point, because you have been going online and seeing a lot of these conversations. one of the big questions that many people have is how there could be lower overall turnout compared to four years ago, especially when there was record early voting in some states, but harris still lost. explain how lower turnout doesn't necessarily result in one person not getting more votes than they got before. >> yeah, so for years, democrats have been told that when turnout is high, our candidates win. well, that is not necessarily the case, especially when turnout is high on the republican side with so, this time around, the republicans turned out. in my county, i saw my small jurisdictions, which are predominantly republican jurisdictions, turnout. higher than some of my larger jurisdictions, which are typically democratic jurisdictions, so republicans turned out. >> and barb, the next one that

many people are concerned with is they are saying, wait a minute, wait a minute, how is it that you had 15 million or 20 million people less vote in 2024 than voted in 2020? were they hidden, were those votes taken away? explain the fact that maybe sometimes lower voter turnout just happens. >> lower turnout does happen and we see that in off presidential elections as well. sometimes turnout isn't high. sometimes the voters aren't engaged for the election. and perhaps not all democrats were as engaged. republicans were engaged for this election. >> barb, one of the things that i have been telling a lot of people is in 2020, when donald trump had all the power, he was running the government, he was not able to convince one secretary of state to flip, not even a republican secretary of state in georgia and california, so the idea that for four years, he and elon musk transformed into lex luther and managed to hack voting machines all over the country in 2000

different counties seems highly unlikely. talk a little bit about the fact that even the tabulation process and voting machines in various states, sometimes state- by-state, are completely different from one another, which would make massive packing almost impossible. x yeah, so each state conducts their elections under state laws, so in michigan for example, we have 83 counties, and over 1500 local clerks that are responsible for conducting the election leading up to the election, election day, and then working with the board of canvassers to canvas the election. in ingram county, for example, we program the election, the local clerks, city and township clerks will test the programming of that election and make sure that it is reading the ballots and tabulating the ballots correctly. local clerks conduct the day of the election, and then the board of canvassers, two

democrats, two republicans, will go through the entire election, to make sure that for every boat that was passed, there was a voter that voted but that is done in all of michigan's 83 counties, and similarly, in all of our other states. >> so, i want people to understand this, i have empathy towards people who are coping with the result and are frustrated, you talk a little bit about how dangerous it is for people to buy into these conspiracy theories, and how sort of toxic and corrosive that can be for our electoral process moving forward. >> yeah, it is very dangerous that people buy into these conspiracies, because what will result is a voter apathy. and voters will not be as engaged to vote in the next election. what also could result is legislators being emboldened to enact legislation that would make it more difficult for people to exercise their right to vote. and overall, it attacks the integrity of our elections but a barbara byram, thank you so very much for this, we needed

this kind of information from an expert like yourself, thank you so much for joining us tonight on the reid out. coming up, elon's twitter flipped the birdie to an axe. now users are fleeing to bluesky. that is next on the reid out. >> [ music ] >> [ music ] how to fix thing. ♪♪ fun recip... (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) we really don't want people to think of feeding food like ours is spoiling their dogs. good, real food is simple. it looks like food, it smells like food, it's what dogs are supposed to be eating. ♪

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100 years ago, america experienced the first great migration. african americans packed up and moved from southern states like alabama, mississippi, and georgia to seek their fortunes up north, forever altering cities like philadelphia and new york. why the great migration happen? well, the main reason was the south was essentially an apartheid state. pretty much everybody else was completely unsanctioned and unmoderated. so, while it might have felt like home for a long time, the south was no longer a safe space. people had to move. we are seeing a similar great migration happening right now

on social media, as millions of users move off the increasingly hostile twitter/x platform to bluesky, using a better, safer, and less toxic internet environment. now, look, we have seen internet migrations before, about 16 years ago, there was a massive move from my space to facebook, but that was a slow and gradual process. nothing like the exit is that we are seeing today. there has been plenty of criticism of x/twitter since elon musk bought it for $44 billion two years ago and has essentially run it into the ground. he eliminated moderators, he let prominent people back on the platform, and let white nationalists run wild address people. but what we're seeing now is unprecedented. the day after the election, ex lost its largest number of followers since elon musk took over in 2022. and it intensified when users learned that the new terms of service that went into effect last friday meant that their tweets and photos would be used

for training x is a.i. robots. bluesky added 1 million followers in the week after the election, and now boasts 19 million users, up from just 9 million in september, and it is the number one recap in apple's app store. last friday, bolstered by the conversation about jake paul and mike tyson and the boxing match and other problems with netflix, bluesky was the hub of social commentary and means, cementing itself as the new hotspot for digital migrants. so, what does all of this tell us about the future of social media and bluesky itself? joining me now to discuss is renee, public policy associate and research professor at georgetown university and author of invisible rulers, the people who turn mice into reality. professor, thank you so much for joining me this evening. so, i find these sort of internet migrations fascinating because we are only one generation into social media really existing.

like i remember a black planet, but for the most part, most of this has only been around for about 20 years. so, talk a little bit about why so many people are fleeing x and going to bluesky. there are other things out there, there's threads, but bluesky seems to be the greatest beneficiary of this exit is. >> bluesky has a lot of energy right now but one of the things that happens with social media migrations as people go where they feel the vibes are good, the people are there, there's going to be a lot to talk about, there are going to be a lot of new friends to make, content to see. one of the things that bluesky is really good at is making people find the communities that they're interested in. people have an incredible amount of agency on bluesky, you can subscribe to different feeds. i like gardening, i have a gardening feed on there, all i see is gardening when i click the button. it is a place to go and feel you have the ability to tailor

your experience, and also right now, it is a very positive place. i think a lot of people are there because they are looking for community, because they want something that doesn't feel exhausting, something that doesn't feel caustic, they don't want to be in an arena, i want to be in an actual public square, and they're looking to bluesky to provide that right now. >> and professor, one of the other things is more than 150,000 people deleted their twitter accounts on election day , and again, many of them seem to have moved to a place like bluesky. what is the impact of sort of historically and anthropologically of these kinds of migrations? there are post, there are moments, there are concert footage that was on my space that has been lost forever, because people forgot their my space accounts, they don't have those pictures, they don't have that access. what could we be losing as people are moving away from twitter as far as content, history, and knowledge of events that occurred during the last 15 years when it was still a popular platform? >> i think that content is going to persist.

there are things like the internet archive, there are places where a lot of that is going to continue to live and to be. one of the things that is going to happen, though, is i think you're going to see less engagement across different political groups. that was one of the things that for a very long time, twitter was a place where everybody tried to be, and so, this did lead to things like political fighting, one faction kind of battling another. it led to creating a lot of incentives to push other people out of the conversation at times, that was kind of the negative, but it also provided a place where you got the sense that everybody was at really big, important moments. i think the question of is there going to be a place like that again where everybody is, that is the thing that i think, unfortunately, what we are going to start to see is much more smaller communities on smaller platforms, much more homogenous communities where people feel like they are on a site that was made for them or on a server that was made for them, and i do feel that that is not necessarily a good

thing, right? it means that we are not engaging with each other, we are not engaging across communities anymore, we are retreating to our indus pendant spaces. while we might be having more fun there, i think that is the thing we ultimately lose by not all being in the same place anymore but >> it is ashamed that we are not going to all be able to stay together and be friends as we may have been able to do in the past, but i do think that is a key problem when you have sites that are owned by billionaires, they sometimes become less friendly. renee, professor, thank you so much for joining us this morning on the reid out. thank you so much for joining us tonight, that is tonight's show. inside with jen psaki starts right now. there is a lot happening in washington, d.c. right now. a lot. instead of keeping up with all of it, yo