capacity to act but also of its capacity to think and to judge. and with such a people you can then do what you please. here on the 11th hour we are going to continue to call out lies and hold people in power accountable because we know the truth matters but only if you hear it. let's take a collective breath, we got this. on that note i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i will see you at the end of tomorrow ee you at the end of tomorrow . okay. there is a lot happening in

washington, d.c. right now. i mean, a lot. and instead of keeping up with all of this, you might be choosing to tune it out. keep your head under the pillow. watch a bunch of rom-coms in sweat pants, believe me t sounds good. even if you have been paying attention you may of found yourself losing track of the many, many scandals swirling around the people trump has chosen for some of the most important jobs in our government. but these scandals are not just tabloid noter to talk about, they matter. not just why but how your lives will look like and your children's lives beyond that. it matters here in the united states and around the world when this is the kind of coverage blanketing the front pages. pick for attorney general a subject of a sex trafficking investigation.

defense secretary picked denies sexual assault allegations, acknowledges payment to accuser. trumps poppin tele propaganda -- drug fueled orgies that is a headline. sex with minor, and let's just pause on that last one for a second. because earlier today the lawyer representing the woman who testified she saw matt gaetz have sex with a minor spoke out in a new interview with hallie jackson. >> what did your client witness? >> she was walking outside to the pool and she observed to her right her friend, who was 17 at the time, having sex with representative gaetz. they were cleaned up to a game table of some type. they did testify, both of them, they consented to their activities. they were also asked if they were victims and she broke down in tears and she said that is a complicated question.

>> did your clients make assessments about gaetz's fitness or judgment to serve in office? >> they are careful what they might express publicly. one did say i do not think a man like him should have that much power. >> of course they are talking about the man who has been nominated to serve as the attorney general of the united states. to be clear, gaetz denied the allegation, he was never charged criminally for that alleged conduct. yet t is still a lot to take in. all of it. but, again it is important to take it in. these are the people who will very likely be sitting in the situation room, sitting in the oval office, briefing the president, advising him on any crisis our country may face. having to hold their own, too, next to their foreign counterparts on the world stage. that is part of all of these jobs. i mean historically, part of the reason that nominees for key cabinet positions, especially in the very important jobs like justice and defense and intelligence, ones that do national security issues and are on the global

stage. part of the reason they are looked into so intensely is because people with skeleton in the closets are the best targets for foreign adversaries for blackmail. don't you think russia wants to know more about the woman he paid off? looking to find more about the ethics report? don't you think our allies are thinking twice about sharing intelligence with putin advicary. i think so. those are all questions we should be taking incredibly seriously right now. so, listen, i know it has only been two weeks since the election. feels like it was yesterday or a month ago. it was an election where trump won all seven swing states and made gains, it warrants democratic party and all of the group that support it, and all of us, too, what happened and

how to look at things differently. sometimes it warrants watching room romcoms. is does not mean he has a mandate to force matt gaetz, or mass deportation is inevitable because he won the election. it actually means the opposite. it means this, right now, is the time to gather your neighbors, call your members of congress to make your voices heard. the answer right now and really the job for all of us right now is to raise concerns when you have them. voice those concerns, to never stop questioning. we aren't powerless here. you are not powerless. we don't have to just throw up our hands at these eye popping stories and decide there is nothing stopping it. that is exactly what he wants toy do. he wants you to feel overwhelmed and to feel uncertain about how and where

to object. he wants you frozen in this moment. but you aren't. we all have voices. you have a voice. you can raise questions. we can all demand answers. my first guest tonight has been asking questions for a very long time and demands answers. he is never quiet. bob woodward a veteran journalist and associate editor at "the washington post,." more than 50 years after he cracked open the watergate scandal he is still at it today. his latest book about the biden and trump precedencies is called "war" it is excellent. such a good read. he joins me. it is great to see you. >> thank you. >> i can not think of anyone who covered more people, more presidents, more people in these key positions than you. i am so thrilled to be talking to you tonight. i just wanted to start with the scene from the pro log prolog

that you had. >> he was not in politics, no, you are right you write this. even in 1989 trump's character was focused on winning and fighting and surviving, and the only way you do that is instinct. if people know you are a folder, if people know you are going to be weak they will go after you >> trump is standing by matt gaetz and pete hegseth and not caring about the scandal that is not a surprise after covering him for 35 years >> and the rule is never fold, never give in. and if you need to be a killer, okay. if you need to give people candy, that is okay. killer, candy, you just want to win. >> that is his rule. >> that is trump. here, there is this coincidence. i wrote it out and i am sorry i did not get it fully in my

head, this is an astonishing continuity. the front page of the "new york times" this morning, the story done by peter baker said mr. trump has said that real power is the ability to ingender fear. i think that is exactly right. trump uttered those words eight years ago when bob costa and i were interviewing trump and he said, real power is -- i don't even want to use the word "fear." that is what we have seen from trump since that day. my first book on trump was, of course, called "fear." because that is exactly what he does. he knows that is what the real

power is. to scare people. to frighten people. and that is exactly what we see playing out today.. >> i wanted to ask you about that, a couple things happening right now. there are the personnel picks, i mentioned a couple of them. he is standing by matt gaetz, pete hegseth, and tulsi gabbard. why do you think he picked them? is he standing by for fear. >> you are in your car, driving down the street and your check engine light goes on, what do you do? pull into a grocery store? no, look for a filling station where there might be somebody who knows what to do. trump is doing the exact opposite. he is intentionally kind of sabotaging the system steve bannon, his old political advisory actually says that in the first months of the trump

administration the idea is to pierce tradition, obliterate it. put a hand grenade over it and so you see all of these appointees that trump made that he is standing by what does he want? he wants a revolution where he controls completely. and, to achieve that he has to destroy the system. so, driving down the road, check engine light goes on, he goes into a clown store. because that is where has happened. >> your book, come is so relevant to this moment because you actually talk about what people in these past jobs, including people trump had in his first administration did. i want to read this, you remember it but for people who have not read your book yet,

you write this quote. mattis so was worried he would have a nuclear war with north korea during his watch that he slept in gym clothes ready in an emergency to join a secure call to deal with the threat. trump delegated the authority to secretary of defense to shoot down a missile that threatened the united states. now, whatever people think of mattis he was a serious person with a serious background. >> one of the great generals and secretaries of defense. >> exactly. okay, i was just going to ask you, knowing what you know about him, you write about him and this . >> there is another part in the book, mattis was so worried that he might have to launch a nuclear weapon at north korea to protect the united states if kim jong un, the mad leader,

fired one. and so mattis was not just sleeping in his gym clothes he went to the national cathedral alone to pray that he would not be forced to make that decision. here we have the secretary of defense on his knees in the national cathedral alone worried about the national security destruction that trump could create in his first term >> that tells you how much who had the military experience of him, how much it weighed on him. i wanted to ask you, you have been covering secretaries of defense through 10 presidents. knowing what we know about pete hegseth do you feel he is equipped to do the job? >> well, somebody should get that job who knows the military. and has had also management experience. from what i read about him, no.

he doesn't. and, i have known over the reporting time that i have had for five decades 16 secretaries of defense going back even before i was a reporter, and they have to know management, they have to know what the responsibility is. they have to know where the levers of power are. and, in this appointee i see none of that. now, you have to ask yourself, why wouldn't trump want somebody who at least has some experience? he is trying to re-create the imperial precedency. he is trying to say i can do whatever i want t. is up to me alone. >> and he does not want them to

have the power. >> he doesn't want to share it. >> doesn't want to share it. that is a striking and i hope people listen to what you just said about what you need for that job. you also talk in your book about, you have a story about director, the former director of national intelligence dan coats, he worked at the top of the central nervous system and the most vital secrets. 2-1/2 years. >> 2-1/2 years >> he had a front-row seat to trump's words and actions, he reached out and never saying anything bad about putin. and saying positive things about putin, for me, it is scary. >> and trump nominated someone who has been a an

apologist like tulsi gabbard. >> what is the goal? what is the purpose? all kinds of people with various political persuasions who have enough experience to run the pentagon but he picked someone who is not even near it and you have to say, what is the goal? having written three books on trump, spent hours with him, the goal is to give him all of the say, all of the power. real power is fear. he knows, fear, you know, that is what we are living in now. this is the era of fear. because he is going to be president for four years and

this is the idea it is so -- it is almost unconstitutional. literally it is not but look at it. why do you want somebody that does not know what they are doing? check engine light just gone off and we pulled in to the wrong store. makes no sense. and it is a form of giving his middle finger to the american people. >> bob woodward there are few people who covered more presidents or covered more people in the national security space than you. i know from you, writing books about administrations i was working in, they are alarmingly accurate. i encourage anyone to read your book. i thank you for providing clarity to our viewers. thank you, bob. coming up, my next guest

said he does not need a hearing to know that matt gaetz is not good for the job for the job life has twists and curls. but you define them and make them bounce. tresemme flawless curls defining mousse.

24 hour. hydrating curl definition. style your life the way you want. ♪♪ tresemme, style your way. . matt gaetz joining the attorney general may of sparked the quickest nos. an hour and 20 minutes after trump announced the pick new jersey's new senator-elect tweeted the opposition writing, i was originally going to hold off on commenting on nominations but i can not stay quiet here. i don't need a confirmation hearing to know that matt gaetz is not qualified for attorney general. i will not support his confirmation. senator-elect kim joins me now. we met in the barack obama

administration. you have a relevant background needed in the senate. i noted how fast it was that you came out and i think that captures the sentiment of what a lot of people are saying privately, some publicly. you have an extensive national security background. i wanted to ask you where you stand on some of the other nominations out there or others like tulsi gabbard and pete hegseth. >> i will not speak about every single individual one but two things that are guiding me. one is that i can not stand how much performative governance is taking over the nominees, i had the chance to work with some of these people in the house of representatives. i see people who are more interested in being social influencers rather than lawmakers. i get to work a job. we have a job description that are in the constitution of the united states. instead of trying to make the most of that, we just see

people chasing ego and ambition. that is one aspect. the other is so clearly this push right now to make america first mean america only when it comes to national security. that question about what does american global leadership mean in this moment needs to be front and center to be able to understand what exactly are we going to see going forward. it is scary right now when we see the inflection point in this country. >> no question. your background is, it is a very interesting part of what you are bringing to this job. i was curious to talk about it. let's talk about gabbard. she is somebody who has, she been sympathetic, as well as putin, when you talk to your constituents about where you stand on a nomination like that or if you might be concerned her overseeing intelligence agencies in a world you live in

what do you tell them? >> what i want to do as the new senator-elect in new jersey make the strongest case. do my due diligence as someone in particular who worked in the situation room. i have spent time in that for hundreds of meetings, seeing the cabinet around the table giving their best advise to the commander in chief. what do i want to see in a leader sitting at that table of then chairs in the situation room with the president of the united states and be able to say there is why this person is unqualified. there is why this is not a voice we want to have in that place. we recognize they all swear the same oath that is to a constitution, not a president, not an individual. what we worry about is seeing, again, awarding and awarding of loyalists and seeing how we look at our partisan politics. the last place partisan politics belongs is in the

situation room. unfortunately we will not see that follow-through with what we have seen with the nominations. someone who has a vote in the senate on that. i want to do my best to protect it. >> we don't know what committees you will be on. you will be asking a lot of questions but you have not made a decision on gabbard or hegseth at there point. you won in new jersey. you outperformed, i should say, kamala harris, you won a senate seat in a year where there were a lot of losses that happened across the country. you talked about having uncomfortably conversations with people. you have gone out and met with trump supporters, that is really interesting. what does that look like for people? i don't know if i can have thanksgiving dinner with people who were trump supporters. i don't know if i can talk to my neighbors that support trump. there is a lot of pain in this country right now. i am sure new jersey, too. >> that is right. i will approach this moment as

i always do with humility. i believe in politics. making sure we recognize, i don't have all of the answers. i can say as someone who is a democrat that won a district that trump won twice that right now so many people that i talked to in new jersey it is not just about the lack of talking about the kitchen table issues and the economy. i know that is part of the discussion. it is about the deep distrust people have in government. some people that i talk to, even if we are talking to them about kitchen table issues, their budgets, what to do with help of cost. they will not believe us. they will not believe people. they have that much of a distrust in government. 84% of people in new jersey surveyed they believed their politicians are corrupt. that is a devastating number. that is something that my state has to confront with a state with democrats leading so many of the major offices, the governor, the senate, so many of the house seats, we have to take that effort. that is why i do believe taking

strong actions on anti- corruption, against special interests, showing that while we say we are trying to protect democracy it does not mean we are trying to protect a clearly broken political status quo that the vast majority of americans can not stand. i hope that is something that people takeaway. have that conversation. last thing that i will say, if we do confront people and lecture to them. tell them what they did was wrong, i find oftentimes those people dig in deeper. if we want to have a meaningful conversation that can try to bring it to the forefront we have to approach it differently >> senator elect kim k. we call you . >> i can't wait to see what you do. thank you for coming by. >> thank you for having me. next guest is donald trump's says pick could do

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. president joe biden has authorized ukraine to use long- range missile provided by the u.s. the change comes in response to russia's response to escalate the war with deployed korean troops. the tactical missile systems could be used to strike border

regions inside of russia. today, kremlin spokesperson told nbc news that the move represents a new leap of tension and tension. so, to sum it up, this conflict is reaching a influxion point, promising to be sympathetic to russia than its predecessor. one of the most glaring one is pick, tulsi gabbard. not only is she ill-prepared and unqualified but she traffics in conspiracy theorists. she can do limited damage and no one can see it that is why

it is so dangerous. virginia member of the house intelligence committee joins me now. it is great to see you what we have been doing is trying to explain people what the stakes are here. for people never had access to classified intelligence, when you said she can do limitless damage and people would not know about it what does it mean? >> it means so many things. i am a former cia officer, i worked undercover as a case officer, case officers throughout the world, currently, are out there recruiting foreign individuals to provide information to the united states government. to provide information that helps inform our policy makers, our military leaders, diplomats, and ultimately the president. and, that is when we talk about sources and methods, right, the sources and megd

methods. it is not only vitally important that we have a clear understanding that every person with access to classified information and especially the dni protects the classified information that is collected, but also that protect and understand how sensitive sometimes our means of gathering that information is. the sources and methods. the dni is the person who sees everything. they know every capability, they know the information that we do or do not have, information that is or is not informing our decisions. and frankly the reason that this nomination, i think is so dangerous, is because any damage that she would do, any information provide the president, she tweets russian propaganda why not include it in the daily brief. traffics in conspiracy theories why not push it into the greater eco system of intelligence. none of that will be seen by the public. no opportunity to push back or

understand. frankly even just a lack of understanding of and respect for how it is that the intelligence community works could really truly undermined not just our ability to collect information but our ability to work with partner nations where information exchanges keep us safe. and, you know, there could be long-term damage to capabilities and methods that we use from whatever point of time into the future and few, few people would know. the damage could just be catastrophic for our nation's own national security. this is not political, it is not a partisan issue, it is not about party or the president- elect it is about our national security. >> that is important. people that work as career intelligence officers worked for democratic, republican presidents, appointed by and nominated by all of them. two things that i thought about but you lived it in a way i

didn't. the chilling effect, people who are case officers, people who are responsible for gathering and analyzing the concerns they might have sharing them with the director and also, the impact it could have on our foreign partners. countries we share intelligence with that we rely on to keep our country safe who are unwilling to do it, do you share your concerns? >> absolutely. more importantly, there are people throughout the world that provide information to those case officers who are, you know, serving across the world. and people of all nationalities who provide information to cia. sometimes the movies make it seem highly hollywood. but reality is they want to avoid a misunderstanding or make sure the u.s. knows what is happening in their home country. the reality is, if they live in fear that their names or who

they are or, you know, the information they might be providing could be made public or could be shared or, you know, we have a dni that demonstrates a clear preference at times for putin over our own sort of u.s. policy priorities i think that would have a chilling effect on what we would be able to collect. who our members would be able to collect. and, again, you never know what you don't collect, right? the american public never knows the terrorist attacks that have been stopped. the impact, right? because it is all behind closed doors. any negative impact that someone a lies herself with vladimir in-- putin and travels in conspiracy theories, hurting our relationships with our partner nations, it is tremendous. it is one of those things only

decades into the future that it will be fully understood if ever. >> i have so many questions for you about your run for governor, the state of virginia, i am a virginiaian. i hope you will come back and we will talk all about that. it is such an important thing. we will be watching. thank you very much. you have so much intelligence expertise i had to ask you about that. thank you for joining me this evening. coming up, how much does musk stand to gain with his cozy relationship with trump? we don't know but we just got a hint. i will talk to you about it after a quick break you about after a quick break

. for all of donald trump's talk about taking on corruption and draining the swamp, he and his inner circle are up to eyeball in corporate billionaire interest. the literal richest guy in the world spent $100 million to help get trump elected. and since then the first buddy as musk referred to himself or trump's co-president others called it. palling around with trump almost daily. a few weeks since the election he has been regularly seen with trump at mar-a-lago, with trump on multiple calls alongside trump including calls to big people like ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. he met with republicans, trump named him to lead a commission on cutting government spending and regulation.

and now, musk is even pressuring trump about what appointments to make. sometimes publicly. now, if you care in the slightest about government corruption, and i encourage you to at this moment, all of that should worry you. the richest man is poised to become one of the most powerful bureaucrats in trump's new administration. that is alarming because his $310 billion was built from contracts and subsidies from the federal government. that would mean musk would be the head of large companies, more than one and have significant sway within the government about how his companies might be regulated. and if they may receive more federal contracts or grants. and one place where we can see it play out is at the federal communications commission. now, the fcc may not be an agency you think about often. that is understandable.

last night trump tapped brendan carr. he is the guy that wrote the fcc chapter of project 25 but because he is an out spoken defender of musk's business interests. online and in person musk has been building a public alliance. in particular, carr advocated for starlink. not to get weedsy here he rilies on starlink, because it is not land base today is particularly effective at getting interest to remote areas. the problem is, that it also has the pair share of problems, not as fast and much more expensive than typical cable broadband that resulted in the fcc denying requests for $1 billion just last year. but, both musk and carr brushed

off the technical concerns accused the government of playing favorites, close to a third of the $42 billion broadband should go to satellite internet. wouldn't you know it, as of now, the only game in town in satellite internet is through elon musk's starlink. carr downplayed he is showing special favors and it is hard to believe when he is willing to commit millions to an industry dominated by a single company. like i said, elon musk spent more than $100 million to help get trump elected. a lot of money but right now it seems like money well spent. we will see. coming up, trump confirms he intends to use the military to carry out mass deportations. my friend jacob soboroff has a incredible documentary coming

out and he joins me next incredible documentary coming out and he joins me next

. so, early this morning we all got new that is both shocking and then at the same time, not at all surprising. now, in a 4:00 a.m. post on social media as one does, i suppose. trump confirms he plans to declare a national emergency and use military to perform a mass deportation. that allows funds to go from other departments, we have seen this before. in 2019 he used an emergency declaration to unlock funds to pay for his border wall. this time, they are targeting pentagon resources. we are beginning to learn more how they plan to use the funds. trump administration is using locations to expand detention centers to hold migrants before they are deported the man including restarting the detaining families like we saw

during trump's first term. joining me now is jacob "separated" based on his book. >> you said it at the beginning. people watching rom-com. it is not one >> i always said people need to get active and educate and get their voices heard. this is a perfect thing. one of the things that struck me about this amazing documentary is that there were a lot of people in the government who did not know how to stop what was happening or did not know how bad it would be. now it is staffed by different people now. but, what do you think having covered immigration policy, you wrote this book, executive produced this movie what do you think they learned from the last time? we may see playout as they implement this. >> i was just thinking some of the very same people, the career civil servants that stood up to stop the family

separation policy and ultimately did. it was the first reversal. trump said i did not like the sight and the feeling of the families being separated. and that is inspite of his own homeland security signing it into place, people throughout the duration and even before he went into office wanting to do this. let's back up. republican-appointed judge one of the most shameful chapters in american history. government sanctioned child abuse, pow sheilingses for human rights won a noble prize and met the u.n.'s definition of torture. the only reason it was stopped is because of the public outrage. it was not bipartisan. it is was universal. because of the government officials that went to the mat against the political appointees, the question is, this time around -- and they want to supersize it with family separation by another name. -- they want to super size

this. what do they do? looking for how they split it up the first time around >> that is the other interesting part of this. there is a lot we don't know about the plan. we know the basics, we learned the aclu sued them for more information how the air travel can be used and carry out the programs, some of the organizations learned, maybe, how to fight this. what have you seen in that regard? >> i think that is true. last night we had a screening of the film out in l.a. and i was with immigrant law center. at the time of family separation they had 30 people on staff there. lindsey, running the organization i remember famously told a story of representing -- i get chills telling the story. representing a kid whose feet would not touch the ground when they were separated because they were in a chair and without a parent and were not able to speak for themselves. they have gone from 30 people, sort of a small operation to 200 in preparation for what is to come now and sort of knowing

what has been. i think part of the situation here is that we all have to tell the stories of what this meant the first time around. i am grateful to have worked with the legend, the oscar- winning filmmaker. he tells the story in the film, i am excited to go with you and screen it tomorrow and here in los angeles >> yes. get your tickets >> in a way that only he can. he has done the forensic examinations of donald rumsfield and even of steve bannon and now the lens on the policy that i think, none of us will forget. i certainly will not forget seeing it with my own eyes? i think it say road map to not only what they might do but how people push back on this policy that i think galvanized everybody across the world in opposition to what, the cruelty is the point. >> one of the things in the minute that we have left but you are a professional here. story telling. you have all of the officials that are part of it and then

there are things to use to explain what family separation is. i feel like it is important to learn. that was a purposeful thing by you? >> yes. always used these narratives in his filmmaking going back to the thin blue line. very early on exonerated someone falsely accused of the murder of a dallas police officer. remember, no footage inside of the detention center. it does not exist. you can see i went in with my little blue notebook, katie miller said no cameras inside even though they wanted to tell the world what was happening. he hired and worked with the production designer. extraordinary mexican actress in the film "chamber maid" you get to the emotional truth in a way that does not exist in footage. and i can't wait for everybody to see it. it was extraordinary to work on. based on the reporting we did

on nbc news and msnbc but it is a story that we carry forward with what is about to happen >> i am going to see you tomorrow night. >> i am sorry. >> a screening of your film at the landmark theater. people can still get tickets. incredible film. so thought provoking. it is important to watch. make sure -- tomorrow, make sure you grab your tickets. you can scan right now on your screen. landmark theater. i will be moderate a q&a with jacob and a lot of other guest that know about it. we'll be right back. know abou we'll be right back. don't cover up your glow. ♪♪ flawless. all eyes on you. skin esteem is a beautiful thing. ♪♪

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means casualty are worse. i am surprised there has not been more blow back already on that in the book. i am saying straight up we should not have women in combat roles >> that was donald trump's pick for secretary of defense earlier this month. before we go, i want to introduce you to u.s. air force captain, hester is the first woman to receive the silver star for her role of shooting down more than 80 drones when iran attacked in april. they went toward the drones and they were engaged in shooting down drones themselves. on that night, after they used up all of their missiles they kept on shooting them down. he says no women in combat down he says no women in combat duly noted. but i think captain hester might like a word with you. that does it for me tonight. the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> think you, my friend. much appreciated. we are happy to ha