it does seem to be like there is some mutual fascination between musk and trump. >> a relationship that will require a lot of scrutiny going forward considering all of the contracts that musk has with the government. he could make decisions that could be very profitable for himself. >> so many -- yeah. so many conflicts of interest. yeah. >> no question. it will require a lot of good reporting in the months ahead and glad you're a part of that, merited. thank you for getting up "way too early." rited. thank you for getting up "way too early. for these allegations. so how should people square that decision with everything that you've laid out here today? >> whether or not a federal prosecutor takes a case and decides to move forward on the trial on an allegation is that particular prosecutor's decision, it doesn't mean they didn't do it. she texted me late last night, regardless of how many times

they try to distract from the truth, the public deserves to know what we know was real and actually happened. >> an attorney for two women who claim matt gaetz paid them for sex several years ago speaking yesterday to nbc's hallie jackson. we'll have more from that interview and the new reporting on donald trump's push to build support in the senate for gaetz to be his attorney general. meanwhile, trump's pick to lead u.s. intelligence services has become a favorite of russian state media. we'll break down tulsi gabbard's comments that align with kremlin propaganda. also ahead, the president-elect confirms he plans to use esthe military to carry out mass deportations of undocumented immigrants. we'll go through how that might work and tell you about the group that's working to push back. and we'll get a live report from china following a massive crackdown on the pro-democracy

movement in hong kong. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, november 19th. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire, mike barnicle is here with us. president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton, and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson is with us. good to have you all here. >> and we're all around the breakfast table. >> that's nice. got to have my coffee. >> whataburger for breakfast is an aggressive move. >> you have to do it. i'm still waiting for it to come north. >> i'm just telling suze orman i did not buy this. >> why? >> she picked it up off the street. she saw it -- i'm going to take

this. >> i don't buy it. >> just drink it. >> it's important.>> >> so thank you for saying that. we all are deeply grateful to know that. willie, the dallas cowboys cannot win -- >> they stink real bad. >> they have spent so much money. i've got to ask, i'm serious, has there ever been a team in nfl history that has spent as much money in the off-season and has underperformed as badly as this team?y >> they were bad before dak prescott got hurt. he's out for the season. their defense is the worst, maybe, in the nfl. they spent tons of money, they have the weapons, ceedee lamb but nobody to throw to him.ro they got smoked last night by their in-state rival, the houston texans. my guy, joe mixon on my fantasy team, three touchdowns. >> well done. >> got me a big -- as we get down the stretch, a big win in

the fantasy league. >> much needed. >> thank you for noticing. >> who is worse this year? who is the bigger disappointment, jonathan, the dallas cowboys or the new york jets? >> oh, the answer is the new york jets. because the cowboys coming into the season -- yes, it's jerry jones, america's team, all of that. they were going to be a wild card contender at best. the jets, you could argue, with the highest expectations that franchise has had in decades. totally turning over the franchise to aaron rodgers, bringing in davante adams, lots of star players surrounding him with, and they have completely fallen apart. and i'll just note, i mean, look, the new england patriots, mike, were no good. we knew going in. we went into the season with the lowest expectations in decades. the patriots and the jets have the exact same record. >> the biggest difference between the jets and the patriots, the patriots have a quarterback. the jets do not. they have an old man masquerading as a quarterback trying to pretend that he was who he used to be ten years ago or five years ago.

that's not happening. the other interesting aspect of it is on the giants and the new york football giants -- >> here we go. >> -- i mean, what are they going to do? the idea -- and then the cowboys that you just mentioned off the top -- the idea that bill belichick would be retained to be the next coach of the dallas cowboys is absurd, because you're looking at a five-year rebuilding process for that club, and bill belichick is, what, 85, 86 years old? >> he's not quite that old, but i don't itknow that he would wa jerry jones in his life either. >> listen, i will say every time we talk about sports, i'm a little sad we can't talk to the rev because he just says, i don't follow sports. >> i preach on sunday. >> that's right. >> amen. but one thing you do follow and we can talk about it real quickly and we'll get into the news, i want to talk about the underlying fight -- because i know e you do follow boxing. the tyson fight was such a

charade. >> oh! >> but beyond that, i think the biggest -- one of the bigger media stories, one of the biggest media failures in a long fatime is netflix promoting thi for as long as they did and not being able to let their viewers watch it because they didn't have what it takes to stream this live event. >> no, i think you're right. for netflix to have failed with the technology, i think, was as bad as the fight. i mean, you know, i'm from brownsville section of brooklyn, like mike tyson is, so we cheered that mike ended the fight on his feet. >> of course. >> if he had thrown two or three punches, it would have helped. >> i don't get the sport at all. this is a no. >> you can't judge this as the j sport. >> no. >> mika, it wasn't that. >> it's not a sport. people beat each other up is not okay. >> we'll have a segment on boxing later. >> yeah, we will. we'll talk. >> okay.

i guess we're not going to be able to talk about this.o >> no. >> because mika keeps interrupting me, and that makes me sad. it's such a joke. let's get to the news. >> let's go to the news. >> willie, you agree, right? >> about boxing? >> yes.ox >> no, but we'll talk about that later. >> i grew up -- i'm sorry, you have prolonged this just like -- >> people punching each other. >> -- like you said you didn't watch "the godfather," we had to respond to that. you're talking about people who grew up watching ali and frazier -- >> and punching each other out. >> can we just talk? >> ali and frazier, frazier and foreman, foreman and norton, you talk about it and cbs had those friday night fights. ali against usually a bunch of losers, but then there was jimmy young that came after him -- >> g i'm going to talk to ari about this. >> oh, you're talking to the wrong person. he's building his fortune on fights. >> he can do better. >> we can do better and we are. >> let's get to the news.

president-elect donald trump is reportedly making phone calls to senators pressing them to support his pick for attorney general. axios spoke to two senators who said trump called them about former congressman matt gaetz, one of them being republican kevin cramer of north dakota. the house ethics committee is set to meet tomorrow to discuss its report on the former congressman. the top democrat on that panel, congresswoman susan wiles of pennsylvania, said the report should be released to the senate and to the public. an attorney for two women, who say gaetz paid them for sex several times, sat down yesterday for an interview with nbc's hallie jackson. he detailed part of their testimony to ethics committee investigators about a party in orlando back in 2017. >> one of the first things she testified to the house that within minutes of arriving she was introduced to matt gaetz and

went upstairs and had sexual intercourse on the bed. ouafter which she went downstai. at some point she was walking outside to go to the pool area and to the right she witnessed representative gaetz having sex with her friend, who was 17 at the time. >> did your client believe that gaetz, at the time, knew that her friend was under age? >> yes. so the house was curious about that. she testified that her belief was that representative gaetz had no knowledge that she was under 18, that she was 17 years old at the time he was having s sex with her. they did testify, both of them, that they consented to the activities. they were also asked whether or not they were victims and she broke down in tears and said it's a very complicated question. >> did your client make any comments about mr. gaetz's fitness or judgment to serve in office? >> they're very careful about what they might express publicly, but one did say i do not think a man like him should have that much power.

>> gaetz has long denied the allegations. the justice department also investigated gaetz over sex trafficking allegations involving a 17-year-old girl. he has not been charged with any crime. >> so this testimony, of course, happened, willie, under oath t. i think the testimony was he said under oath and in front of the committee. people on the committee say the information needs to get out. john cornyn and other senators are saying, we have to see all the information. too bad.n. i was in the house. i know what senators think of house members.na they're not going to listen to the speaker of the house. they're going to want to get it out and get the information before the american people. i just -- if i can just for one minute, if anyone can give me a second here and at this appreciate it because i don't usually get a chance to talk on

the show, but i'm going to do it now. first of all, mika and i went to an event last night, and it was wonderful. there were a lot of people that were sad.le a lot of people came up to us hugging us, saying, tell us everything is going to be okay. tell us. we're so upset. we're so torn. and i said -- >> it was the roar forward summit, reimagine the second hatch of life. talk about 50 over 50. it was really good. >> it was. we don't know how we're going to get forward. we're stumbling forward right now trying to figure it out. and, rev, you know, first later will be able to see clearly. >> you quoted it correctly. >> there you go. we don't know right now. i just open this up to the table. what i said was we're always -- we're always concerned, obviously, and everybody that wins acts like this election is

the last election ever. first of all, i want to let everybody know donald trump did extremely well in middle america. he did. did you but i also want you to know this. we are a 50/50 nation. one out of four americans voted for donald trump. a little bit more. about one out of four americans voted for kamala harris. a little bit less. and in the swing states, wisconsin, donald trump won by less than one percentage point. michigan, he won by about a percentage point. pennsylvania, he won by about 1.5 percentage points. this is a 50/50 nation. and i had a sign in my congressional office that said, if you want to predict the future, shape the future. so be sad, be upset, mourn, and then get to work. all of us.

get to work. regardless of what side you're on or how you think we best get there, we're not going to always see eye to eye, but we can get there together. but, rev, there's a great story that i think we were told about bill clinton. he was running for governor, i think it was in '80. he lost. a young man, he had already been governor.d supposed to be the end of his political career. the morning after the election when he lost, his staff members were looking out the window as they were packing up the boxes, and there was bill clinton on the street shaking hands. and one of them looked to the other and they said, poor guy. he doesn't even know the election's over. and the other staffer said, oh, you don't understand. the other election may be over, the next election has just begun.

and clinton was shaking hands, kept shaking hands, was elected governor, two years after that, two years after that, two years after that became president. united states. i guess enthat's the message. we don't have, none of us right now, we're trying to figure out what hit last week, but one thing we know is there's a lot of work to be done. >> and there's a lot of people that lewill be affected and impacted in the interim. i >> exactly. >> and i think we can't miss the forest for the trees. when we have a new president, and that's who donald trump is, regardless of my views of him, we've got to figure out how we have people not suffer more than they can suffer if we're not dealing with that. that's why when there were those -- and there were not as many as i thought that said, why would thyou and mika meet with

donald trump? he's going to be the president. if you can meet with him, meet with him. that, to me, is no different than when people said to me, why would kamala harris go talk to brett baier. she can talk to brett baier but he shouldn't come on "morning joe," i dndon't think we have a equal judgment here because i think all sides should be talking to all sides. i wouldn't meet with him because i felt it would be a photo-op and he promoted things and we should be discussing issues. he's a promoter. if he had been born black, he would have been don king. that's what he does well. i would say i hope in your conversations we should ask donald trump -- tiyou talked abt black -men would be with you. where is the black man being nominated by you for your

cabinet? there's no black that has been nominated on his cabinet? that needs to be raised rather than who is talking, let's deal with what we're talking about. >> i will say, first of all, thank you to everyone who was so kind last night. willie, yelled i saw for the first time, a massive disconnect there was between social media and the real world because we were flooded with phone calls from people all day. b literally around the world. a very positive, very supportive, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. i would get a text, oh, man, i hope you're doing okay. i would call them back, eddie, are you on twitter? and he goes, i am. i'm not so we've had a good day. mika had a wonderful event and it's fantastic. we're going to do -- all of us will do the best we can do and we're all working towards a

better america. >> take it day by day, people. >> again, you can predict the future by shaping the future. but the reason i wanted i wanted to talk about that one-fourth of americans that voted for donald trump, one-fourth for kamala harris, is there's another election in two years. now i don't care who wins and how big they win, we've seen time and again -- and we talk about it -- americans go back and forth and back and forth with their picks. if republicans, if donald trump, if republican senators put in as attorney general somebody that three women have testified, i believe, if i'm correct, he had sex with an underaged woman at a drug-fueled party -- and what i read in "the wall street

journal" was he paid two other women for sex. if that is something that republican senators and donald trump are okay with, there will be consequences at the voting booth two years from now. we always, oh, we won. oh, we won. oh, we can do whatever we want. really? because that's what i heard a lot wof democrats saying after barack obama won. the tea party came roaring into town. this and other of these picks, republicans would be smart to advise and consent. and donald trump would be smart to back off of them in two or three of these cases because there are elections two years from now and things just won't go well. >> think about it in the case of matt gaetz, we're parsing whether the young woman alleged to have had sex with matt gaetz was 17 or 18. this is a sitting member of the

house of representatives in 2017, he had just been sworn in. so does character count or not? that's a question for donald trump. it's a 'squestion for republica. they've long lectured about character. put quaul if ication lification will ask those questions, but to rev's point and your point to underline what you were saying yesterday, i wasn't at mar-a-lago. i've never been to mar-a-lago. never asvebeen invited. i guess i should be offended by that. but nothing changes for me and i think for you guys either from election day, which is you know how we have criticized donald trump. you know about his policies. you can see it in the people he's nominating. you'll see it when we talk about his plan for mass deportation. none of that changes for me. none of that changes for us in the way we will criticize that. he is the president of the united states. that's the fact of the matter. he won very narrowly. i would point out just yesterday as more votes came intocal ka, he has slipped under a 50%

majority. all of those swing states save for arizona within the margin of error. the polling actually was right in those states. >> when we were saying every day this race is a tie, it was a tie. >> he swept the battleground states. true, in that way he was overwhelming. >> within tthe margin of error which, again, that's how you win elections these days. 2016 within the margin of error. 2020 within the margin of error. 2024 within the margin of error. we are a 50/50 nation. i guess the question is, side issue, when are we going to learn to work together? >> i'm deeply skeptical and it might be an understatement that he will suddenly be this bipartisan figure given the history and nominations he is making, but we will cover him as we have been covering him. let's get back to the nominations with nbc news correspondent dasha burns and rrpolitical reporter for axios hans nichols, the author of the axios "hill leaders" newsletter.

going back to that reporting about some of the pressure that donald trump is reported to be applying personally to senators about matt gaetz.ou this does seem like the one place -- hopefully there are others, but one place donald trump might lose a fight in the senate. is it your sense that these senators who urhave said donald trump has a mandate, will cross him at least on matt gaetz? >> that's the open question, and i think, you know, all of us reporters, it's incumbent upon us to kind of get a sense of how intense e this battle is, it's institutional battle between the senate and the presidency, and the battle is joined. when the president of the united states starts personally call senators, really leaning on rs them, there's no way out of that sort of showdown. and there is a lot that's interesting about this.in number one, it's interesting trump didn't apparently really call any senators before he made orthese nominations. he's making these calls after he's already sent them, so not a whole solot advising in the adv

and consent part. two, we have to see what the senators actually say when they get pressed and pushed by donald trump. we talked to senator kramer. he said trump is very persuasive. everyone at the table knows senators don't like being told what to todo. they like their prerogatives and they want to see the report, to see the contents of that ethics report, and they say they want to give gaetz a fair hearing, but they want to know what's actually in there, and it's pretty clear whether or not it's the entire report or just the contents of the report that a lot of the details will come out and then it's just up to the senators. are they willing to defy the president that just handed them the majority. >> again, i think in most cases they probably aren't going to want to do that. at the same time there are, willie, a lot of senators who are up maybe two years from now, and mitch mcconnell will probably never run again. susan collins, lisa murkowski who have already said -- you know, it's going to be -- we

can't ever be shocked.ev let me just say i just might get close to being shocked if those two women mitch mcconnell and other republicans fall in line behind a congressman, as the testimony said, had sex with a 17-year-old woman, statutory rape. two other women who testified under oath -- they all testified under oath -- and then he quit two days before the report was coming out.po i've been around a lot of senators. i know a lot of senators. they don't want to give up their advise and consent, and they've also been around long enough to know lthis stuff blows back. they were there when karl rove in 2004 said permanent

republican majority -- nancy pelosi, speaker two years later. they were there when barack obama's people said, you know, permanent obama majority. two years later, they saw what happened. so, yeah, they've been through this. they've been to this rodeo. and they understand you really can't select a guy that has had testimony against him that he had sex with an underage girl, who was a junior in high school, at drug-fueled parties, and el defend that on the campaign trail two t years from now.l just like that bill clinton story, senators up in two years, do you know what they're doing doright now? they're thinking about that election. how do thi win? that's how they think. so, yeah, i don't know how they get from here to there regardless of what the incoming president might say. >> and the incoming majority leader, john thune, is an honorable guy, a decent guy, a good leader. is he going to stand by, is he

going tato put his name on matt gaetz? >> he's a dad. >> is he going to put his name to matt gaetz? dasha burns, you're covering this as well. matt gaetz is just one of the names stthat have caused outrag by the way, not just democrats but some republicans, pete hegseth defense as well, bobby kennedy and tulsi gap bbard as dni. what is your sense in washington, what is your sense on capitol hill of the battles republicans may choose to fight with donald trump here? is it a case of we've got to vote down matt gaetz, but we'll give you tulsi gabbard in exchange? >> you know president-elect trump does not want to give an inch, and a couple of agencies that have been lesort of a thor in his side for a long time now. you talk about dod. that's a place where in his first administration he felt like he did not have the right people in place. he wasn't happy with how the military was run, with who was running the military. that would not execute his

orders as he wanted them to, mostly because he wanted to follow the law and follow precedent. enter pete hegseth who does not have the standard qualifications for that role, and who also has abeen accused of sexual assaul. of course he denies those allegations. so that's an important pick for mr. trump because of the loyalty that he feels hegseth will have and the kinds of -- how he will execute what he wants.at when it comes to matt gaetz, the doj is an agency that he has railed against at every rally that i've been to, and he has campaigned on the message of weaponization of the justice system. matt gaetz was one of the biggest pro-points of that message. he amplified that message. he talked about bringing these agencies like the doj, the fbi quote, unquote, to heel or dismantling them altogether.

a lot of these picks, he is specifically choosing people who are in opposition to the very agencies that they tare being tasked with overseeing, and every time lately he's had the choice between someone more traditional or someone more cut from the maga mold who would kind of shake up or potentially blow up an agency, that's the direction that he's gone, willie. >> all right. nbc's dasha burns and political reporter for axios, hans nichols. >> athanks, guys. >> not every single one, mike, susie wiles, marco rubio, ratcliffe, the first time through where people didn't want but now, being , we're not perfect but we're okay with that. there were these other selections last week specifically gaetz, gabbard, rfk jr. and hegseth that obviously

have caused a great deal of concern. and i think from what we're hearing from republican senators, they understand donald trump got elected. donald trump, if he has a theory about -- if he wants to be aggressive and try to go against what he calls the weaponization of the justice department, he got elected talking about that. the question is, who is the person that can sit in that position? an attorney general does so much more for the president, for the country, than just look at things like this. it seems to me you would want a spokesperson to be, you know, loud, but you actually would want a lawyer in there who knew what they were doing that could carry out whatever a president wanted to do and obviously, even if you get past all the ethics, matt gaetz is clearly just not qualified to be attorney general

of the united states and that's what republican senators are saying. that's what "the wall street journal" editorial page is saying. >> joe, there were two people here in addition to matt gaetz, the documented unqualified candidate for attorney general, pete hegseth, for secretary of defense. if you're a united states senator, you have a six-year term. you're isolated. you're not like the house. you have time to think about these things. you have time to be serious about these appointments. so my question to you off that setup, gene, the nature of these two appointments and these two critical agencies justice and the department of defense going forward, what do you hear in that town where you've lived almost your entire adult life and worked almost your entire adult life covering that town? these are really shocking appointments at their root.ap if you're a united states senator, you don't want to be casting the nay vote for a guy

shocking in terms of incompetence. >> well, you don't want to do that, but the question is what will they do? these are appointments -- all four of these aappointments see to be about revenge, these four controversial appointments. donald trump wants rshis reveng against the justice department and the fbi and matt gaetz is the one who gives him that and without the niceties of constitutional law and precedent f and decades of practice. i think he sees hegseth is the same. hegseth will give him his parade down constitution avenue. remember the one he wanted with tanks and missiles that he couldn't get anout of the geners the first time? i'm sure pete hegseth would give that to him.

this is what donald trump said he would do. he said back in march of 2023, he said i am your retribution. this is about his retribution. against parts of the government that he felt wronged him or disobeyed him or didn't bend to his will. i think that's what it's about. no votes in the senate, it is indeed possible the senate just can't get past matt gaetz. but i count how many sure no votes, lisa murkowski, i think mitch mcconnell probably, i think susan collins probably. is there another definite no vote in the senate right now? it's unclear. let's see what more comes out

and gist how sordid the details of this encounter are. or these encounters are. but i do not rule out the possibility that he gets confirmed. if it's 50/50 and jd vance gets to break the tie and he's calling senators and leaning on them in the way that he apparently is, i wish i could rule it out because matt gaetz should never, in any universe, be attorney general of the united states, but i don't think it's completely out of the question that he is. >> no. we know how congressional republicans have responded to pressure. it's fascinating to listen for the last decade republicans and donald trump talking about the weaponization of certain departments to be used against him, perceived weaponization for things like exercising a lawful search warrant at mar-a-lago when you store classified documents in your bathroom. that was framed as weaponization. but here we have people talking explicitly about using those

departments as weapons against his critics as retribution, the fbi the justice department or even dni. they're just saying onlily, we're here to get back at the people who came at donald trump. >> add the fcc to that, below ccthe radar nomination, but thas in the same category. and this is what donald trump has told us. he is going to be retribution. he does want revenge against the deep state he feels undermined him in his first term and post presidency and people i talked to in his orbit, the motivation here is as much to destroy these agencies as it is to lead them. now in terms of whether these nominations get through, i mean, republicans have said -- there are a lot of republican senators who are privately saying they won't vote for matt gaetz. there's a difference between saying it privately and doing it publicly. they voted for john thune, who trump didn't want done on a secret ballot. this will not be a secret ballot. gaetz will be the hardest to confirm. there are questions about hegseth with some legal issues for him. robert f. kennedy jr. seems to

be sailing through which is hard to fathom. >> what do you think about that, mike? you've known him for a long time. >> wow, wow, wow. >> it's almost incomprehensible he will have his hands on the ds entire health and human services department. >> fluoride out of the water? >> get your kids vaccinated before christmas this year no matter how old they are. >> there's going to be a lot of resistance in the senate for re that, but the trump camp. a lot ahead. real quick, president-elect trump has chosen shawn duffy, former congressman and fox host as his transportation secretary. president biden is making his isfinal appearance at the g20 summit in brazil. and also a suspect in new york city is in police custody after a stabbing spree that left three people dead. so we'll have more on that throughout the show.ro also still ahead on "morning joe," we'll dig into president-elect trump's plan to use the military to conduct mass

deportations and the potentially wide-ranging impacts. plus, dozens of pro-democracy protesters in hong kong have been sentenced to prison. the latest on a sweeping national security trial. we're back in 90 seconds. so, what's your glucose number right now? good thing you don't need to fingerstick. how's all that food affect your glucose? oh, the answers on your phone. what if you're heading low at night? [phone beeps] wow, it can alert you?! and you can even track your goals. manage your diabetes with confidence with dexcom g7. the most accurate cgm. ♪♪ learn more at dexcom.com

♪♪ a beautiful chopper shot in new york city. >> it looks purple. >> to the sounds of "tears for

fears." >> there's a long play list. >> i heard a stat about them one time. i know everybody is on the edge of their seat going, what is the stat you heard from casey kasum back in 1987, one out of every three records they sold back when records were sold, southern california. >> really? >> they were just -- and i never knew that. aren't they from -- >> they're british. >> man, southern california, man. >> they're good and they hold up. some of the '80s music didn't hold. theirs held. >> they're good. no doubt about it. >> that's a good fact. >> that is a good fact. now you know. when is nbc going to let me do tears for fears in top 40 casey casum stuff? and they go, the more you know. >> the rainbow.

rev, we were just talking at break, we only had like a 30-second break, but let's talk. you came on this set three weeks ago, and you said that when you went to detroit they weren't excited about voting for kamala harris, and you -- we were very surprised, did you but we also heard from a lot of people that went knocking on doors in pennsylvania that every door they knocked on people said they would be voting for donald trump. and i guess the question is why were people in detroit so motivated to vote for joe biden in 2020 and not for kamala harris in 2024? >> i think that people felt in many ways deflated. i think the misinformation campaign got through to a lot of them. i think that in many cases people had given up.

and that's one of the reasons civil rights groups and others like my action network did get out the vote. kamala harris was a great candidate. she did well. she's the third biggest vote getter in presidential election history. there was nothing wrong with her. and i think that as you talk about senators having to think down the road, we have got to think across the board how we make sure you energize voters and make voters understand what they're doing. one of the reasons on january 20th, while trump is being inaugurated martin luther king day, we call for a rally on the other side of washington. we're not protesting the inauguration, but we have to recharge the dream. it is martin luther king's holiday that day. we have to give people the reason to be engaged that meets them rather than, as i always say to you on the show, rather than these ivory tower ideas that means nothing to people that have to go buy groceries

every day. you have to bring it back to them. >> and that's a great point. eddie will be on the show later this week, but he was saying, hey, a lot of people on twitter are saying stuff. okay, that's fine. i guess they're saying if donald trump was so bad for so many years, why is he okay now? like we said in our statement yesterday, you know, we were very concerned by january 6th, the trials, by everything else, by the violent rhetoric, the fascist sounding rhetoric, and we said that. but what we learned after the election was 75 million people, they were more interested in the cost of gas, the cost of groceries, and a democratic party that they thought had gotten too extreme on a lot of issues. >> and i'm interested in getting to the news. >> okay. time now to take a look at some of the other stories making headlines. wait until the second time.

that's why i thought you'd be interested. lawyers for sean "diddy" combs want a new court hearing after authorities seized materials from his jail cell. the attorneys say prosecutors are using documents to keep combs behind bars until his may trial. prosecutors accuse the rapper of orchestrating a social media campaign aimed at influencing the jury pool. combs denies that and the allegations of sex trafficking and racketeering. listen to this, new research shows one in five adults regularly get their news from influencers on social media. the number is even higher among younger americans with almost 40% under the age of 30 getting their news from those sources. according to the pugh research center, the social media site x remains the most widely accessed platform followed by instagram and youtube. >> i mean, that comes obviously

for political news, and, mike, that's the challenge you grew up in a newsroom like gene grew up in a newsroom. that's a lot of challenge -- that's a challenge for a lot of mainstream media sources. do they make themselves relevant again to hear 20% of adult who actually get influencers on social media? maybe somebody who makes baskets and while they're making baskets they look up and say, vote for candidate x. >> i don't know how we make ourselves relevant again, because we can't compete with 20-second snippets on a iphone. >> morsels. >> getting the entire news in less than a minute with one coffee in one hand and your phone in another. i don't know how to agree with that. >> gene robinson, do you agree with mike, that younger voters would be more interested in getting a 20-second news snippet than watching a cable news show

for four hours from 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m.? come on! it seals like an easy choice to us here. >> what is wrong with these people? >> exactly. >> i mean, look, if i newspaper the answer, you know, i it would implement it immediately, right, and reverse this, but we have to compete. the answer is, we don't know how to compete with the social media basket making influencers or whatever, but we have to. and we've got to figure out ways to do it and maybe we make our own 20-second snippets and we meet viewers where they are. we meet news consumers where they are because they're not cheap, and that's the problem. >> gene said if i knew how, i thought he was going to say, i'd start my own newspaper.

it reminds me of the beatles when they landed at jfk, somebody asked john lennon, why are you so popular? if we knew, we'd quit and be managers and start new bands or something like that. yeah, that's the big question, how do you compete with, as mike said, 20-second snippets, when somebody is going in to get their coffee. >> given my own experience with teenagers and young people, that number sounds low to me. young people under 30, let's say, are not sitting and watching a full television show. it's just not happening at all anywhere for any of them. they're getting it here and donald trump and his campaign did a good job in the campaign of finding that audience with snippets, with moments -- he created moments during his campaign. i'm not saying they were good moments, but they presented well in a short tiktok clip. people said, oh, he speaks truth. oh, he's kind of funny. he built an affinity with young voters, and we saw that show up in the polls a little bit. let's turn overseas. dozens of politicians and

activists were sentenced to prison in hong kong, leading voices in the pro-democracy movement. china imposed crushing national security laws on hong kong in 2020 following months of wide scale demonstrations against chinese rule. the crackdown has been called a, quote, knockout blow to hopes for democracy in hong kong. joining us now live from beijing, nbc news international correspondent janis mackey frayer. what more can you tell us about this? >> reporter: willie, this trial is seen as the most significant sign of beijing tightening its control of hong kong. dozens of pro-democracy activists facing conspiracy charges under this national security law that was imposed in 2020. all but two of the 47 lawmakers and politicians who were arrested back in 2021 were convicted today and the crime, according to authorities, was holding or taking part in an unofficial primary election.

among them was a law professor who got ten years. 20 people were given terms of five to eight years. others, including joshua huang, who pleaded guilty to avoid a life sentence. the law was beijing's response to those protests in hong kong in 2019. the government here saying it was necessary to stop challenges to china's sovereignty. it's certain slogans of crime and expressing ideas about politics as dangerous. censorship and digital surveillance have also been stepped up. when i last spoke to joshua huang after the law came into effect, he says it doesn't mean we're going to stop fighting. the law and the arrests and now this trial have worked to all but end the pro-democracy movement or at least has pushed it well into the shadows. critics are saying it's the end of the rule of lau w.

jimmy lie is facing charges of sedition that are seen as politically motivated and there have been international calls to have lie, who is now 76 years old, to be released immediately. willie? >> hey, janis, joe here. i saw a chart this morning from "the new york times" that was shocking to me, and it talked about carbon emissions and, of course we, the united states, the eu, have been fighting, i think, fairly hard. if you look at the charts, pretty effectively in bringing down co2 emissions over the past ten years. we are on a downward slope. we certainly hope we continue on that downward slope. there are headwinds with some nominations. but then you look at the line from china, and this is, again,

their soaring emissions are just exploding, and it makes it hard to see how in the world we would come to any international agreements without china taking part in it. i'm just curious, is there a view from inside of china that pollution, which has been just a terrible problem for the past 20, 25 years there, that at some point they will curb those emissions and start being a bit more concerned not just about their environment but about their health? >> reporter: well, this notion of historical responsibility is a major point of contention in climate politics. the u.s. has been burning coal and oil longer but china has been catching up over the last 30 years, building coal-fired plants with the booming economy, and last year passed europe for the first time as the second

largest historically. china, for its part, has said the emissions are going to peak this decade and then they're going to fall, and they are doing a lot in terms of wind and solar power. but all the emissions they burn to get to this place that are going to see it catch up to the u.s. and because of that, countries like the u.s. are saying that china has to pay. they have to pay more for developing countries to make this transition to better energy sources. china said, look, we've pledged the money, but the big debate at cop-29 is china isn't coming through with the transparency. and with president-elect trump believed to be slashing green energy initiatives and going full tilt on drill, baby, drill, there is the sense that a lot of this global leadership on climate and climate policies is going to fall to china, and so there's going to be increased onus and expectations of china to follow through in all respects.

>> all right. nbc's janis mackey frayer live from beijing, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. and coming up, the ceo of the anti-defamation league, will join us to discuss the recent anti-semitic attacks in amsterdam and why he says the violence is a dire warning for jews in america. "morning joe" will be right back. (sigh) (snoring) if you struggle with cpap... you should check out inspire. honey? inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com

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♪ ♪ the anti-defamation league

held its landmark 30th annual in concert against hate event at the kennedy center last night. the benefit first began as a special event marking the 50th anniversary of the end of the holocaust, and now it celebrates those everyday heroes who take action in the face of bigotry. the star-studded event was emceed by ben stiller and included performances from world-class musicians including grammy-award winner cea and rosette goldstein. joining us now from the anti-defamation league, jonathan quinn black. it's great to have you on the show. there are so many different things to talk about. willie, i'll have you start off. >> jonathan, put in context the night last night, star-studded event but serious issues at the center of this we've been talking about with you for a

long time now and more intensely, let's say, in the last year and a half or so. what was front and center and what should people be thinking about here? >>really electric. you had a sold-out kennedy center and ben stiller. this was a reminder that people can push back against prejudice if they choose. we honor a muslim professor at manhattan college who has caught her muslim and jewish students how to work together as they memorialize the holocaust. we celebrated a professor chavez at george mason university who has done work on racial healing and scooter brawn who brought the nova exhibit and scooter was amazing. his speech was extraordinary. last night you get beyond the rhetoric and the noise and folks

come together for a bigger purpose. this was fighting hate. we can do it if we dig deep and try. >> this comes in the backdrop of europe. you have anti-semitic attacks in europe are a dire warning to jf jews in the u.s. we may be next. you chronicle a trip writing, quote, raging anti-semitism in europe this month has been white washed with ridiculous labels like hooliganism and violence tied to a soccer game. let's put an end to the gas lighting. jonathan continues just hours after the attack, i traveled to amsterdam. i wanted to hear directly from the jewish community and political leaders. and what inheard was nothing short of an emergency. if you could elaborate on those conversations, what did you hear? >> it was astonishing. i flew out to amsterdam right after i heard of the a, at that. i met with the jewish community leadership, with elected officials.

i met with the prime minister, and what i heard again and again was what happened that thursday night was like nothing they had seen in generations. literally, willie, after the soccer game there were dozens and dozens of coordinated attacks against jewish people all over the city. so literally coordinated by cab drivers who used whatsapp and telegram and a jew hunt they termed, with clubs, knives and beat and assaulted individuals whose only crime was they were jewish. and this didn't -- barely raised an eyebrow here in america, but this is what ized the intefadeh looked like. i went from berlin to brussels, from brussels to paris. and in all these places meeting with elected leaders, with community members, the level of fear is frightening and, willie, this can happen here when our leaders allow violent rhetoric

to go kind of crazy, people end up doing crazy things. >> reverend al, i have watched you and jonathan greenblatt bring your organizations together and speak out against hatred, speak out against anti-semitism, speak out against racism. we've seen it here in america, certainly saw you guys especially after the tragedy in pittsburgh, but this is exactly what you and jonathan have been warning us about over the past several years on up show and when jonathan comes on and you work together. >> no doubt about it. and i think it is going to be needed now more than ever. amsterdam shows us that. and, jonathan, thank you for inviting me last night. i just couldn't get to washington. >> it's okay. >> as we look at the new administration coming in, i spoke in white plains on friday night, and a lot of people are

concerned, talked about the hate summit you and i and others put together with biden and kamala harris at the white house. where do we go with this new administration? both you and i have concerns for different aspects. certainly i've said i'm against what netanyahu has done, but we've got to stand up and deal with the anti-semitism and what happened october 7th cannot be tolerated as well as what's going on in my opinion with the innocent people in gaza. how do we deal with the hate that's coming this way and groups like adl and others, the action network and others, deal with this? we see the text messages to blacks right after the election. we see a rise in anti-semitism from europe headed this way. how do we keep this coalition against hate together? >> look, i'm so glad you asked, rev, and there are a few things. we've got to stop the gaslighting. they had people in amsterdam who

said the jews brought this on themselves because some of them made mean chants the night before. there is no excuse for intolerance, and there is no rationalization for violence. so that's number one. i think, number two, we need to realize that we have so much more in common than things that keep us apart. and so politicians -- frankly on both sides will try to light a fire, will try to divide us. we have to resist that, rev. jews and blacks, asian americans, hispanics, men, women, gay, straight. all of us need to come together to build the america we want to see. that's what you and i have to do. that's what our community has to do in the years ahead. >> all right, ceo of the anti-defamation league jonathan greenblatt. jonathan, thank you so much for your kind note. we greatly appreciate it. so sweet. >> thank you. >> thank you. gene robinson, you just --

you look at the images out of amsterdam, and you hear them -- you hear about people on social media talking about jew hunts, and you just wonder where that moral arc of history is bending right now, because when you look at those attacks, those anti-semitic attacks that seem to have overtaken amsterdam, you just have to ask, where are we going? >> where are we going? it is shocking to me to see in amsterdam and in new york, in other places, jews attacked for being jews. it is one thing to have a focus on israeli government policy, the policy of the current israeli government and what it's doing in gaza, and you can

certainly oppose that, but, you know, random jews being attacked for being jewish is just appalling and something i never thought i would see. yet, at the same time, three or four times a week, and i'm being conservative, i get emails or whatever from, you know, people who were critical of my political points of view, who just use the n-word and sometimes they include reverend al as well, just to throw that in. this has increased, and this atmosphere is shocking and something i haven't quite seen since i was a kid in south carolina, and we have gone

backwards. and we need to turn this around. we need to turn this around. this is getting bad. >> i mean, i would tell you, i was raised in georgia, in mississippi, in northwest florida. i went to school in alabama. i was raised in the deep south, and i was raised in the deep south at a time when, i will say, at least in middle class america, the racist insults and everything wasn't said in polite society, wasn't said in school, wasn't said for -- i'm just telling you where i was in the middle-class communities that i was in, and i will tell you now, i'm hearing from my children it's changed, that it's actually gotten worse than it was when i went to high school decades ago. and it's not supposed to be this way. >> no. >> but it is this way. >> it is. >> it is frightening.

>> so president-elect trump is confirming plans he'll declare a national emergency and use the u.s. military to carry out mass deportations of undocumented immigrants once he takes office in january. trump responded, quote, true! to a social media post yesterday from conservative activist tom fitten that stated reports are that the incoming trump administration is prepared to declare a national emergency and will use militarily assets to reverse the biden invasion through a mass deportation program. additionally, "the new york times" reports trump's top immigration policy adviser steven stephen miller has said military funds will be used to build, quote, vast holding facilities that would function as staging centers for immigrants as their cases progress and they wait to be

flown to other countries. miller also said the facilities would be operated by the department of homeland security. at the same time nbc news has reported the incoming trump administration has been in talks with private prison companies about drastically expanding immigrant detention centers. also yesterday the aclu sued the federal government for information about how authorities might quickly remove people from the u.s. the lawsuit alleges that u.s. immigration and customs enforcement have failed to respond to requests for basic information about its existing contracts with private airline companies, ground transportation services, and airfields, and policies governing deportation flights including those carrying children. >> lemire, this is one issue on background we discussed where there was a

discussion that there could be a deal worked out with democrats -- we'll see if that's the case -- but, you know, in 1954 ike had the inappropriately named operation wetback which was a military style deportation, but they did not use from anything i've read, the united states military 1954 -- >> not even in the '50s. >> -- they used a lot of border patrol agents. there were 300 jeeps. there were u.s. vehicles that were used, and it was very aggressive deportation but they did not use the military. and, again, this is just one of those things where, are they really going to step over that line or is this something, again, a campaign promise, and this was all promised on the campaign, by the way, people voted for him. but is that a campaign punch line, or is that really a line

that's going to be crossed when this can be done without using the united states military? that's the real question. >> it is. it is under consideration, i'm told. there are details being worked out. right now this is the plan. this would be a threshold cross to use portions of the militarily to perhaps do this, the largest mass deportation program in the history of the united states, one that, indeed, has been promised from the beginning of this campaign. this is part of the centerpiece of what donald trump pledged to do this time around. now there are some who think that as inauguration day approaches there will be perhaps influential approaches in donald trump's years from the business community in which he cares deeply about that will warn him of the economic impact of this, people whose jobs will disappear, people who have filled jobs -- >> by the way, can we talk about that for a second? because i understand, mike, this is a great -- we'll get back to you to finish -- this is a great

campaign pitch and it worked. >> sounds grade. >> it worked. again, he said he was going to do it. said there would be mass deportations. main even bloody mass deportations. and the crowds, for whatever reason, cheer this on, right? but then they go into restaurants, and the restaurant's half open. then they go to the hardware store on main street, and, you know, they have to close early. i saw this happening actually -- >> go to the store and the products are not there. we did a story yesterday with "the new york times" investigative reporter about how this would impact a lot of different companies. >> there are workers, again -- i'm just saying that whether you like it or whether you don't like it, businesses, people on wall street, small business owners, family restaurants, you know, when you start talking

about massive deportation and you start talking about actually cutting immigrant work visas coming in, which is really the thing that really has caused problems, they're like, wait a second -- the business community, not lefties, it's the business community, hold off on that. >> joe, immigration in this country was one of the visible aspects for voters who voted in the last election for president of the united states. they could see it in their public schools. they could see immigrants in public schools. they could see immigrants in hospital emergency rooms. they could see immigrants pouring into their city or town that they had not witnessed ever before -- >> by the way, new york city. >> exactly right. the other aspect of it, and she ran a terrific campaign -- kamala harris ran a terrific campaign but never really addressed the reality the biden administration, the first two years of the administration, they let the ball drop on the border. they just did. they had other things they were doing far more important maybe,

but in the public's mind, in the public's eye, they could see people it uninvited guests, what them viewed them as, coming into the country. so now you have the issue hanging over the incoming trump administration, all right? they have not yet addressed the fact that this is a budget buster. if you're talking about transporting millions of illegal immigrants become to the country of origin, it's going to make movement of troops to europe or movement of american troops overseas to look like pennies. it's a budget buster. >> and, jonathan, i'll let you finish. i will say, though, what mike said is exactly the case, and it's a real concern, and i'm just wondering, just wondering, if this isn't something that when you look at the budget, when you look at the pressure from wall street, when you look at everything else, this isn't something that's compromised and

it's the criminals, 15, however many million criminals or whatever the stat that was going around. if that's not the people they look to deport to get out of the country. >> trump prizes the economy most of all. that's his favorite metric whether or not his presidency is a success and for both on this idea of deportation and the tariffs idea, they're linked here. there is some belief that business leaders and others will talk him out of it and say, look, you'll ruin the economy if you do these things. it will damage your presidency. that's possible. maybe it will narrow. but at least right now they're talking big. they're acting like they're going to go through it, and these are, again, the signature promises of his campaign. maybe, yes, maybe he'll cut a deal. maybe he'll make it smaller. maybe he'll take the win and move on to something else, but maybe not. a lot of people in this country are afraid he'll do exactly what he says. >> millions of people in this country are afraid of that and in 2016 donald trump promised a border wall, mexico was going to

pay for it. neither of those things happened despite the fact he also owned washington at that time, the republican house and a republican senate. tom homan, the border czar appointed by donald trump yesterday said he will use i.c.e. will take, quote, the handcuffs off i.c.e. and go after the bad guys first, so didn't say he wasn't going to go after other people but his first concern would be to use i.c.e. to get criminals deported. let's bring in political analyst, former u.s. senator claire mccaskill. claire, good morning. it's always great to see you. hop in on this conversation. we always take donald trump seriously at his word that he's going to at least attempt to do the things he says he wants to do. what do you make of this idea of mass deportation as a practical question of how they would carry it out? >> well, there are so many things that are not possible that they're saying they're going to do at the same time.

for example, elon musk is talking about cutting two-thirds of the federal workforce. well, by the way, does he know that two of the largest employers in the federal workforce are the pentagon and homeland security? if you take those agencies and set them aside and cut the workforce, then we're talking about people who deliver payments to the american citizens. we're talking about the medicare system that delivers payments on behalf of americans. we're talking about social security that delivers payments on behalf of america. so there really is this disconnect between how realistic a mass deportation is in light of other things they say they're going to do and how it will look to america if they erect these large holding facilities with the money they take from the military, which, by the way,

them tried with the wall. he declared a national emergency and diverted pentagon funds to do, what, 20 miles, 100 miles? he didn't build it but he built some of it. it really is a head scratcher. they will be very savvy about using, deporting people who have been convicted of crimes or charged with crimes. they'll do really smart photo-ops with those folks, and there's about a million of those people in the country. most of it's low level crime. some of it is not. that's what they will do first and the big splashes they'll use to try to convince americans that he's doing some mass deportation. but i think tbd on the idea he could do a mass deportation, and i don't think the american public will stand for it. >> there are a lot of economic issues as everybody has talked about around the table here. i think you talk about deporting criminals, i think that's what we would call in politics not a

90/10 issue but a most americans will want illegals out of the country. if they focus on that, yes, that will be something. that will be overwhelmingly popular. one of the things they don't want to see are the type of pictures that donald trump said he saw back in 2017 at the beginning of his last term, and, again, we've been talking here about how we have elections every two years, mika, and that you do -- if you deport criminals, that's a very popular issue. if there are these images of mothers and babies being pulled apart, that's what leads to the blow back against this, when nancy pelosi game speaker of the house in 2018.

that's something they are aware of and something that will be interesting to see how they resolve. >> so fox news chief political analyst brit hume is warning donald trump should ignore talks of having a mandate. take a look. >> well, this was a clear and convincing win for mr. trump, to be sure, and particularly when you think of all the stuff that had been thrown at him as he tried to be elected again. and it's impressive. but whether it is a landslide producing a mandate is another matter. there are some counts now that say, updated counts, that say he slipped below 50% of the popular vote. we don't elect people based on the popular vote but one way whether somebody has won a landslide and the other way is by states. ronald reagan won 49 states. richard nixon won, i think, 44 states. barry goldwater won only one

state against lyndon johnson. those were true landslides allowing a candidate or an elected president to claim a mandate. i think the danger for the president, or his team at least, might make the same mistake joe biden made. joe biden won a narrow victory, convincing perhaps, but narrow in 2020, and once he got control of the senate and had control of both houses, he started thinking that he was going to be. new fdr and was going to pass all kinds of great social legislation, some of the results at which were an outbreak of inflation in which his candidacy and campaign never recovered. you have to be careful about these things. mandates, real mandates, are rare. and landslides are perhaps even rarer. the president would be wise to talk about what an enormous mandate he has and landslide. that can lead to trouble. >> that's a guy who has been

around washington for a very long time, willie, and has seen this. i have to say, even when you have the biggest landslides in american history, right, a mandate isn't a mandate. 1964, lbj, 49 to 50 states. 1966, republicans have a massive victory. ronald reagan elected governor of california, shocking everybody, and setting off the reagan revolution in 1966. richard nixon, 1972, november of 1972, wins 49 states. a year and a half later, he's walking the beach in winged tipped shoes in san clemente. oftentimes a mandate is not a mandate. brit hume is very -- obviously he's been around, very insightful there, and that's one of the reasons why, again, if you're looking at something like mass deportations, say, on the campaign trail, the economic challenges and all the other pr

challenges, all the political challenges, maybe you do just look at those criminals and get them out of the country, and you'll have the entire country cheering that. >> yeah. as we've been saying since election day, first of all, this is not a landslide. ronald reagan in 1984, that's a landslide. this is a margin, as i said, a little while ago, donald trump has now dipped below 3507s 50%. he won all battleground states to be sure but most within the margin of error. he may have a mandate within his own party but you have to be careful with that. let's bring in sherrod brown of ohio. he lost his bid for another term earlier this month. senator, thanks for being with us this morning. you know, it's been fascinating to listen to these after action reports, these autopsies why democrats went wrong. your race, though, not just your campaign but your life, focused on workers, should have focused

more on workers across gender lines. what's your assessment not just what happened in your race where you ran well ahead of kamala harris but what the national party needs to think about now? >> i wrote a book about the senate, the history of the senators who held my desk. i try to keep a historic perspective, and clarp knows this very well. the democrats since nafta, this once a one year or four year problems. the democrats since nafta have drifted away -- workers have drifted away from democrats because of that. i grew up in mansfield, ohio, where the sons and daughters of steelworkers and autoworkers and electricians and millwrights and laborers and brick layers, and those jobs began to move south and then they began to move overseas because democrats -- because presidents of both parties, frankly, betrayed those workers with these trade agreements.

we have to talk directly to workers. we have to restore the tradition and history of democrats being the party of workers, not just union workers, whether you punch a clock or swipe a badge or care for an aging parent or raising children. we have to be that party and focus on the dignity of work. we didn't do that over the last 30 years, and we pay this price where far too many workers left the democrats. as you said, i ran 7 1/2 points ahead of the national ticket. you can't do much better than that. but when we had the historic perspective of workers leaving our party, we have a serious problem. >> so, senator, you know, when i looked at the races even a year out, i said sherrod brown will be fine in ohio. he's connected better than anybody, and you're one of the democrats who will figure out a way to win because, again, he has such a connection with

working class voters. and so when you lose, that sort of suggests the democratic party is in deep, deep trouble across the industrial midwest. i want to know what did you hear from workers when you were campaigning who would have voted for you four years ago, who would have voted for you eight years ago, who voted for barack obama in 2012 and 2008, what did they tell you? why were they leaving the democratic party? what was the sort of not nafta, et cetera, which i totally agree with, but what was the gut answer that they told you that made you realize, man, we've lost working americans? >> even with the accomplishments we talk about, a million veterans, 40,000 in ohio have already gotten care because of our bill on the exposure to burn pits, even the pensions, we save

$100,000 -- 100,000 pensions in ohio that wall street essentially took away, if you will. even with the prescription drugs at $35 a month, or $35 a month ceiling for insulin, even with those things, it was hard to start the conversation particularly in small town rural ohio the midwest is dotted with a lot of small industrial cities that provided a decent middle class wage. you couldn't even start the conversation about being a democrats in many of those counties where the bottom dropped out. worse than even six years ago. until we start talking directly to workers when we listen to work workers about why they've left and where they've gone, they don't necessarily love trump, they think the democratic brand is so damaged whether in

missouri or ohio. >> why, though, specifically? what did you hear over and over again specifically, why have they turned against democrats the way they have? >> they don't think we're the party that represents them anymore. i saw the transgender ads and all that, but one of thip my favorites of dr. king when he was assassinated, he was in memphis because he was there talking about the dig naet of work and king better than any historic figure wove together civil rights and worker rights. we don't do that. we're the party of civil rights as we should be, the party of human rights, and i will never ever become off. i voted for marriage equality 30 years ago, one of the few that did. i'll never back off that. but one of the things about worker rights it binds all of us except for the coupon clippers who you occasionally have on up show, joe, 90 x percent, what

binds us together is we work. swiping a badge, punching a clock, whatever kind of work you do. and we should be talking about that, center -- we'll talk about other things. i talked a lot about abortion rights, of course, but we should center our discussion on workers and how they are the centerpiece of our country. they are what binds us as a nation. >> when he says coupon clippers, mike barnicle, the boston red sox over the last three years offering prospects coupons to barn hill country buffet, all you can eat buffets thinking that was going to somehow get ohtani. it failed. maybe it will get soto. >> we're going to get soto. no doubt about it. >> come on! >> joe, does barnicle -- he's not going to end up with the guardians either. >> does barnicle understand the red sox fans have become almost as bad as the yankees fans?

does he understand that fact? >> oh! >> finding a way to bind you all together. >> thank you, senator. >> that hurts. >> i salute you. >> it cuts like a knife. >> claire, help me. claire and i root for america's teams, the cardinals and the guardians. >> exactly. okay, sherrod, listen, i am totally down with you on what you're talking about the dignity of work. but the other undressed topic here that we've got to expose is that most of these guys that you're looking at right now think baseball is only played in new york and boston. they do not understand -- >> well, i mean to be fair, there are the cubs. it's just the east coast. but go ahead. >> oh, come on, you guys! you are such snobs when it comes to baseball. it is boring. >> claire, i think you should let the woman talk, all you guys interrupt claire. the fact is the cardinals have the second best franchise in

american league history in terms of world championships and competing. i would like to say the guardians do. you ought to listen to claire about that. >> sherrod, while i have you, i've got to get this question in. you're back there, you're walking on the floor, you're talking to your colleagues. how confident are you that there are more than three votes to stop matt gaetz? >> um, i don't know that for sure. i'm pretty confident. i'm afraid that in just talking to colleagues last night, gaetz is so bad that republicans will jettison him and bring in the other terrible cast of characters and maybe making a path to him. i don't know. i'm not there to vote anymore. we have to get our act together and phone focus on workers as y know. >> senator, i'm going to pass up the chance at a cheap shot based upon the cleveland guardians playing the white sox 19 times a year be a thus making the playoffs, but we'll let that go. i want to ask you given your

admirable -- >> just lost an election, mike. >> leave him alone. >> beyond your admirable career of fighting for people who we all grew up with, who work with their hands and built this country, what are you going to do now in january? do you have a plan yet? it's tough getting defeated, there's no doubt about that given your record. >> it's a little early. >> what are you going to do? >> i don't know. i have a lot of options. people are talking to me. i would only say one thing, when you said people working with your hands, if you would spend the time i do on work sites and manufacturing jobs, companies and small businesses, whatever, i always reject the term rust belt because we're not that, but it's working with your hands and it's working with your brains. these jobs in american manufacturing are increasingly high tech. they take great skill. i spent a lot of time with carpenters or brick layers or

millwrights and see them getting trained starting at $20. the end of five-year apprentice making $35 an hour with insurance and health care and have no college debt. i spoke at one of the programs as it launched, apprentice program, all these young people were wearing shirts that said path to the middle class, and we're going to see more of that. we were successful on the chips bill you've talked about on this show of having a project labor agreement, 7,000 good paying middle class union jobs building these plants, and we're going to see more of that if done right. >> all right. democratic senator sherrod brown of ohio. >> thank you, senator. >> i want you to know when the red sox aren't in, i'm always cheering for cleveland to win their first world series, since 1948. it is way pastime. when mike barnicle talks about working with his hands -- his wife gives him an allowance in

gold, and you have to carry it upstairs, right, mike? >> no, the safe is downstairs. >> senator, thank you for being with us. we are grateful. now, willie, i heard you visited america's favorite city, toronto. it's america! >> basically. across lake ontario. >> it's a great city. >> it is an amazing city. >> what did you do up there? >> on friday night christina, my daughter and her friend went and saw taylor swift. >> stop. >> it's the second to last -- there's a shot of her it's the second to last store. she has toronto this weekend again and then to vancouver and this nearly two-year unbelievable odyssey ends. >> just crazy. >> and there are two parts that are extraordinary. i cannot pretend i'm a crazy swiftie. you listen, i know that, i know that. she's amazing. two parts. first of all, the performance,

3 1/2 hours. >> holy cow. >> 3 1/2 hours in a sold-out football stadium where the blue jays play, a baseball stadium, but a massive facility, 55,000 people, and bruce springsteen i have seen, he stands up there with the guitar, but each of her songs is like a little broadway show. she finishes one song, a costume change, new dancers, video elements to it, goes to a different part of the stage. it's an extraordinary thing to watch. and i thought this would be amazing if she did it once like a netflix special. she does it again the next night. 3 1/2 hours. there's that element of it. the other is the culture around it which is i was talking to someone close to her who said our crowds are about 90% women. i was one of the 10% -- >> good on you. >> but just walking around toronto, starting at 8:00 in the

morning, little girls, teenagers, women, moms, friends, friend groups, decked out already in their glitter dressed in whatever is their favorite era. to be in the middle of that joy and kindness. a little girl, a shy girl, and another would go up and say your dress is so pretty. just to be in that bubble, it really is extraordinary what she's created. and so talented. she writes the songs, plays the guitar, the piano, sings and dances. i am lly converted. it's a tough ticket, i'll tell you that. >> also, the thing is that i love about her story is, she got there by hard work. >> yeah. >> she decided when she was young she was going to get there. she got there -- >> like schroeder at the piano. >> she said, i wasn't the cool

girl. i wasn't the sexy girl. i wasn't whatever, with you but hard and was focused. >> fearless. >> and arless. >> in a culture so many people are supposed to look up to are crass or mean or vulgar, it's nice to have somebody i have two teenagers look at, she worked hard, is talented, puts in the work and spreads joy. i think we need more of that. >> i've been to cooperstown. i have been to canton. i have not been to the hockey hall of fame. tell me about it. >> so as part of the trip -- it's great, first of all. john, you've been to the hockey hall of fame. and my great-grandfather, herbie lewis, is in the hockey hall of fame. >> no way. >> played for the detroit red wings. >> did he smoke cigarettes -- >> in the face of camels. i had a chance to visit his plaque in toronto, which was moving and so cool and is

featured prominently. he played for the red wings in the '30s, won two stanley cups, the captain of the team. an amazing man got to know late in life. it was such a treat to have time to stop in there and see that amazing facility. the place is so great. >> how cool was that for your kids? >> it was incredible. >> to see him being a part of history. >> it was incredible. i was actually there -- that's me when i was 14. >> no way! >> look how cute. >> at his induction in 1989. >> willie! >> look at the umberbund. >> why are you holding a kodak thing instead of a pack of camels? >> it's an open question. >> like len dawson -- >> really. >> you can google and find him in an ad, one of the truly great athletes of his era. oh, there's me.

cigarette in one hand, cheeseburger in the other in ads saying i go for camels in a big way because it helps me digest a good meal. >> ain't that america. >> in the '30s. >> home of the free. he played on the red wings? >> yeah. >> that is so cool. >> a great trip. >> you are one busy guy, willie geist. very nice. still ahead on "morning joe," for more than two decades peggy noonan has written about the history and character of our nation. she's exploring that in her new book, "a certain idea of america." and peggy joins us next on "morning joe." we'll be right back. l be right . saving on your education should be a right, not a competition. at university of phoenix, you'll get the best scholarship or savings you qualify for. simple as that. explore scholarship options

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♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪ the answer my friend is blowing in the wind ♪ wind ♪ that was the great bob dylan

back in 1963 performing the classic song "blowing in the wind." that song, along with dylan's life, are celebrated in the new book from pulitzer prize winning writer peggy noonan entitled "a certain idea of america." "the wall street journal"ist writer teaches readers how to see and love the united states and peggy joins us now. peggy, it's good to see you. >> it's wonderful to see you. good morning, mika. good morning, joe. >> good morning, peggy! it's so great to have you here. your book is such a wonderful read, and it reminds me -- >> oh, thank you. >> -- charles krauthammer, who i absolutely loved his work and writing, when charles wrote his last book he said, this isn't going to be about the day-to-day

of politics, the messy details that will not survive decades, i'm going to write about things that matter, bigger things that matter, and that's what you say here. this isn't about the day-to-day scrum of politics. it's about something bigger. talk about it and why you decided to write this book. >> well, a publisher came to me and said, let's do a collection, and i thought, i don't know about that. and we looked at what i'd written in the past few years and we continually saw a kind of attempt to celebrate great lives and see america in some sort of fresher way than perhaps we'd been seeing it for the past ten years and we simply picked columns that were about great men and great women, great moments in history, great literature, geniuses like bob dylan, who is not only, of

course, an iconic figure and a great songwriter but a winner of the nobel prize in literature. we weren't leaning to some sort of positivity but were leaning towards there are good things here. let's talk about them. >> first, though, if you don't mind if we don't talk about the scrum of politics, the current situation. >> sure. >> i think about you, and you have sort of this perfect arc to explain a lot about what's happened to the democratic party. if i remember your bio right, you were out as a young child with jfk flyers. your family was democratic. >> yes, yes. yeah. >> you came from, like mike barnicle and chris matthews from a catholic, irish catholic family, and we just had on a few

minutes ago sherrod brown who was really a champion of working families and seemed better connected to working families in ohio up until this election than, i think, any democrat on the scene, and he got blown out. and so we asked him -- he's still grappling with it. i'm curious as somebody who has seen this full arc, what do you think -- the disconnect between working class families and democrats, what do they need to do, in your mind, to reconnect? >> well, i listened to senator brown very closely, and i thought his mind was very much on the right things. but this is the way i see it. going through my life from the time i was a kid to the time i was a young woman, the democratic party was seen as three things, it seems to me. a, it was the party of the little guy, it was the party of

the nobody. it was the party that was going to take care of people who were not protected in america. two, it was the party of generous spending. you know, they weren't too tight with the purse strings. they thought, spend the money. we'll make it up at the end. three, they were the anti-war party by the '60s and '70s. joe, it seems to me they have ceded that territory to the current republican party, to the trumpian party. the trumpian party, republican party, says, we are the party of the little guy. we are the party of generous spending. you think you can spend? hold my beer. >> exactly. >> yeah. we are the anti-war party. so, mika, if the democratic party was on these -- resting on these three pillars, little guy, anti-war generous spending and that's all gone and they seem

now the party -- and academic administrator of brown university, not the little guy, and they see more activists in the world and they are only as big spending as the republicans they've lost their pillars, that means they either have to rebuild those pillars or find new pillars. >> mike? >> that's how it seems to me. >> peggy, i was skimming through the book earlier today about 5:30 in the morning, and i came to a dead halt when i got to page 188 and your portrait in 2018 of a man i know and have truly admired, and he's horribly miscast by many in the media, it's wisdom of a nonidiot billionaire ken langone. tell us about ken langone. >> he was a little kid on long island, an italian american from a plain, regular family, born, i

think, perhaps about eight decades ago. and went on and tried -- you know, an ambitious kid, a poor student but an ambitious guy. got through college with the help and encouragement of a lot of people. tried to get a job on wall street because he thought, i'm an american. i'm going to get rich. on wall street they said, hey, you're a tall italian american kid, you can work in the back with the irishmen and the jewish guys. it was a whole other world, 50 or so years ago. anyway, he started pretty much his own life as an investment banker and he went on to invest in great things, and he was a very wealthy and philanthropic person now and he wrote a book about, hey, guys, you know, you can complain about this, complain about that, but free market capitalism is the thing that allows lives to happen

because it makes jobs which allow families and burgeoning and generosity. so he's just a regular american, and i thought, you know what, give him some praise. >> peggy, as i was looking at the book this rng morning, you i at a panel at a church taping a tv show years ago, and it construction me you did a whole column and opened the book with billy graham. >> yeah. >> i grew up in a black baptist/pentecostal environment, he was an idol to my mother. what people don't know about his evangelism, he reached out to dr. martin luther king. talk about billy graham impact on america where he was the president's preacher across party lines for decades, and took courageous stands even though he was, if i used the term godfather of american

evangelistic kind of religion tradition. >> yeah. yeah, thank you, reverend al. he was -- he was an evan -- he was an ecumenical figure. in the years just after world war ii when he came up, and he was this young southern preacher and he wanted to bring christ to the masses. so he started holding rallies, and word got around. and the rallies got really huge. and people who had previously not had faith through, say, the great depression and world war ii or had seen their faith grow vague or without an animating spirit, they started to listen to him. they flocked to his rallies. they invited their friend but the acumencal part, he wasn't saying be a protestant, be a catholic, be this or that.

he was saying love christ. this is who he is. he had nothing in his notes but the bible, which he would quote. and he became a there's a portrait in the british netflix series series o fabulous rallies and the queen of england sees him and thinks, my faith isn't so great. maybe i could meet with him and calls him in. i think when i was coming up, reverend al, and pretty much when you were coming up, guys like billy graham were considered so impossibly old-fashioned and, you know, some kind of gavel smacking phony, and he wasn't that. he was a great man, and he gave his life to his beliefs, and he really meant it.

>> the new book "a certain idea of america" is on sale now. pulitzer prize winner and "new york times" best-selling author, peggy noonan. it is great to see you and great to have you back on "morning joe." >> wonderful to see you guys, all of you. i give you a kiss. >> all right. thank you. peggy, see you soon. and coming up next, our next guests teamed up to bring us the hit show "ncis" and now they're out with a new book telling the true story of a special agent who worked in one of the most dangerous countries in the late 1980s. "panama." mark harmon, yes, that mark harmon, and leon carroll jr. joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." we're back in two minutes. so mom uses chewy to save 40% on gifts that help keep the tree intact, and monkey good and grounded. for low prices... for holidays with pets, there's chewy.

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panama, 1989. a nation on the brink where the lines between ally and adversary

blur. in a betrayal of trust general manuel noriega once friend, now foe, cast as shadow over u.s. interests. enter rick yell, naval investigative service special agent drawn into a web of espionage by an unlikely ally with intelligence from a secret source called the old man, yell exposes hidden information that shake governments to their core. as danger mounts, so does the risk to those he holds dear. >> when you get a book this big, you get a trailer for your book. that is a trailer for the new book "ghosts of panama." a true-life ncis story that took place in 1989, follows the events after a young united states marine is gunned down at a checkpoint in panama city. naval investigative service agent rick yell is deployed to investigate the killing.

soon after the u.s. invasion of panama begins, ordered by president george h.w. bush, putting yell's family, his informants and fellow agents all in harm's way. joining us now the co-authors of "ghosts of panama," actor mark harmon and leon roll jr. where mark served as executive producer and leon was a technical adviser on "ncis." we're glad you're up at an obscene hour in los angeles. let's get into the book. mark, the trailer is riveting. the story is evenly more riveting when you read through it. what grabbed you about this? and how did you even come to it? >> when i first joined the show, one of the things that sold me on it, it was going to be based on real cases and then tv shows become what tv shows become and you start doing things like murder of the week which is not

really what "ncis" does. it gave me an opportunity, certainly, to work with leon for 20 years and grow an appreciation for him and his work and the people like him who have done that work for so long without recognition. there was always a quest to try to find a way to tell real stories about these individuals who gave so much. >> leon, tell us about rick yell. who is he? who was he? what role was he playing? what danger was he in? >> rick yell was a great guy. still is, actually. lives in tennessee. and at that point he was the only criminal investigator in an office that had more former counterintelligence agents working and he was kind of out of his expertise area, but he recruited a man who provided very much all the information

that we needed to provide to the country team to help in the invasion of panama. >> so, mark, on that, it's sort of a forgot he conflict, if you will, what happened there in panama, overlooked often by the history books. tell us about the setting here and the richness it brings to the story. >> well, i just think it was a volatile time, and it's an interesting thing to go back and look at the history of that and certainly what you remember from class and school and what you learned about it there. this is a very different story. a part of this, in some ways, is eye opening to me. certainly leon was there, so this is a current story for us to tell as opposed to the first book that was done mostly through research. there is talking to real people who were there and have a story to tell and were never asked about it until we had a chance to sit down and talk to him.

>> so, leon, as somebody who understands is this world of "ncis," what was mr. yell's mission? what was his role in all of this? >> well, his mission was to operate a person who had access to the inner workings of manuel noriega's inner circleage he did that quite expertly because he didn't really have the training to do it. and he worked with other folks also in the office and was able to infiltrate that particular inner circle in 1989. >> all right. a murdered marine and the special agents caught in the middle of the invasion. an extraordinary story. can't wait to read it. thank you all so much for being with us. "ghost of panama" on sale now. mark harmon and leon carroll jr., thank you so much. >> thank you, gentlemen. >> i really appreciate it. still ahead, tsa

administrator david pekoske will be a guest. we'll find out what air travelers need to know. also ahead, oscar nominated actor josh brolin will join us live in studio with a look at his new memoir "from under the truck." we're back in 90 seconds. in 90s woah, limu! we're in a parade. everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. and you have this dream every night? yeah, every night! hmm... i see. (limu squawks) only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. onl so he sublet half hisd. real estate office... [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg's moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money.

and don's paying so much for at&t, he's been waiting to update his equipment! there's a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don't have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. the department of justice declined to prosecute matt gaetz for these allegations.

so how should people square that decision with everything that you've laid out here today? >> whether or not a federal prosecutor takes a case and decides to move forward on the trial or move forward on an allegation is that particular prosecutor's decision. it doesn't mean they didn't do it. she texted me late last night, regardless of how many times he tries to distract from the truth, the public deserves to know what we all experienced was real and actually happened. >> an attorney for two women who claim matt gaetz paid them for sex several years ago speaking yesterday to nbc's hallie jackson. we'll have more from that interview and the new reporting on donald trump's push to build support in the senate for gaetz to be his attorney general. trump's pick to lead u.s. intelligence services has become a favorite of russian state media. we'll break down tulsi gabbard's comments that align with kremlin

propaganda. also ahead, the president-elect confirms he plans to use the military to cast out -- carry out mass deportations of undocumented immigrants. we'll go through how that might work and tell you about the group that's working to push back. and we'll get a live report from china following a massive crackdown on the pro-democracy movement in hong kong. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, november 19th. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire. mike barnicle is here with us, president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton, and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson is with us this morning. >> good to have you here. >> we're all around the breakfast table. >> got to have my coffee.

>> whataburger is aggressive. >> you just have to do it. i'm still waiting for it to come north. if chick-fil-a can go north -- >> i'm telling suze orman i did not buy this. >> she picked it up off the street. she saw it. >> i'm going to take this. >> i don't buy it. >> just drink it. >> it's important. we all are deeply grateful to know that. willie, the dallas cowboys cannot win -- >> they stink real bad. >> they have spent so much money. i have to ask -- i'm serious, ever been a team in nfl history that has spent as much money and underperformed as badly? >> they're terrible. dak prescott is out, a lost season. their defense is the worst maybe

in the nfl. they spent tons of money, they have ceedee lamb taken care of. he's a great receiver but nobody to throw to him. they got smoked by their in-state rivals. joe mixon got me a big win in the fantasy league. >> much needed for the franchise. >> thank you for noticing. >> who is worse this year? who is the bigger disappointment, jonathan, the dallas cowboys or the new york jets? >> oh, the answer is the new york jets. the cowboys coming into the season, yes, it's jerry jones, america's team, all of that. they were going to be a wild card contender at best. the jets, you could argue, went into the season with the highest expectations that franchise has had in decades. totally turning over the franchise to aaron rodgers, bringing in davante adams, lots of players and they have completely fallen apart.

the patriots weren't good but we knew going in. we went into the season with the lowest expectations in decades. the patriots and the jets have the same record. >> the biggest difference between the jets and the patriots, the patriots have a quarterback. >> they do. >> the jets do not. they have an old man masquerading as a quarterback trying to pretend that he was who he used to be ten years ago or five years ago. that's not happening. the other interesting aspect of it is on the giants and the new york football giants, i going t? the idea -- and the cowboys you mentioned off the top, the idea that bill belichick would be retained to be the next coach of the dallas cowboys, is absurd because you're looking at a five-year rebuilding process for that club and bill belichick is 85, 86 years old -- he's not quite that old. >> i don't know that he would want jerry jones in his life either. >> i will say every time we talk about sports, a little sad we

can't talk to the rev because he says, i don't follow sports. but one thing i know he does follow -- >> i preach on sunday. >> that's right. >> amen. one thing you do follow and we'll get to the news. i want to talk about the underlying fight, because i know you do follow boxing, the tyson fight was such a charade. but beyond that i think the biggest -- one of the bigger media stories, one of the biggest media failures is netflix promoting this for as long as they did and not being able to let their viewers watch it because they didn't have what it takes to stream this live event. >> i think you're right. for netflix to have failed with the technology, i think, was as bad as the fight. i mean, you know, i'm from brownsville section of brooklyn like mike tyson is, so we cheered that mike ended the fight on his feet.

if he had thrown two or three punches, it would have helped. >> i don't understand the sport at all. >> you can't judge this as the sport, mika, because it wasn't that. >> it's not a sport, people beating each other up is not okay. >> we'll have a segment on boxing later. >> yeah, we will. we'll talk. >> okay. i guess we're not going to be able to talk about this. >> no. >> because mika keeps interrupting me and that makes me sad. that's a joke. >> okay. let's get to the news. willie, you agree, right? >> about boxing? no. but we'll talk about that later. >> you're talking to somebody -- i grew up -- i'm sorry, you have prolonged this. like when you said you didn't watch "the godfather" we had to respond to that. talking about people who grew up watching ali -- >> getting in a ring and punching each other out.

ali against usually a bunch of users but jimmy young came after him. >> i'm going to talk to ari about this. president-elect trump is talking to senators. axios spoke to two senators who said trump called them about former congressman matt gaetz. one of them kevin cramer of north dakota. the house ethics committee is set to meet tomorrow to discuss its report on the former congressman. the top democrat on that panel, congresswoman susan wiles of pennsylvania, said the report should be released to the senate and to the public. an attorney for two women who say gaetz paid them for sex

several times sat down yesterday for an interview with nbc's hallie jackson. he detailed part of their testimony to ethics committee investigators about a party in orlando back in 2017. >> one of the first things she testified to the house that within minutes of arriving she was introduced to matt gaetz and went upstairs and had sexual intercourse on the bed. after which she went downstairs. at some point she was walking outside to go to the pool area and to the right she witnessed representative gaetz having sex with her friend, who was 17 at the time. >> did your client believe that gaetz, at the time, knew that her friend was under age? >> yes. so the house was curious about that. she testified that her belief was that representative gaetz had no knowledge that she was under 18, that she was 17 years old at the time he was having sex with her. they did testify, both of them, that they consented to the activities. they were also asked whether or

not they were victims and she broke down in tears and said it's a very complicated question. >> did your client make any assessments about mr. gaetz's fitness or judgment to serve in office? >> they're very careful about what they might express publicly, but one did say i do not think a man like him should have that much power. >> gaetz has long denied the allegations. the justice department also investigated gaetz over sex trafficking allegations involving a 17-year-old girl. he has not been charged with any crime. >> so this testimony, of course, happened, willie, under oath. i think the testimony was he said under oath and in front of the committee. regardless of what the speaker said, people on the committee says the information needs to get out. john cornyn and other senators are saying, we have to see all the information. too bad. i was in the house.

i know what senators think of house members. they're not going to listen to the speaker of the house. they're going to want to get it out and get the information before the american people. i just -- if i can just for one minute, if anyone can give me a second here, and i appreciate it because i don't usually get a chance to talk on the show, but i'm going to do it now. first of all, mika and i went to an event last night, and it was wonderful. there were a lot of people that were sad. a lot of people came up to us hugging us, saying, tell us everything is going to be okay. tell us. we're so upset. we're so torn. and i said -- >> it was the roar forward summit, reimagine the second half of life. talk about 50 over 50. it was really good. >> it was. we don't know how we're going to get forward. we're stumbling forward right now trying to figure it out. and, rev, you know, later we will be able to see clearly.

>> you quoted it correctly. >> there you go. we don't know right now. i just open this up to the table. what i said was we're always -- we're always concerned, obviously, and everybody that wins acts like this election is the last election ever. first of all, i want to let everybody know donald trump did extremely well in middle america. he did. did you but i also want you to know this. we are a 50/50 nation. one out of four americans voted for donald trump. a little bit more. about one out of four americans voted for kamala harris. a little bit less. and in the swing states, wisconsin, donald trump won by less than one percentage point. michigan, he won by about a percentage point.

pennsylvania, he won by about 1.5 percentage points. this is a 50/50 nation. and i had a sign in my congressional office that said, if you want to predict the future, shape the future. so be sad, be upset, mourn, and then get to work. all of us. get to work. regardless of what side you're on or how you think we best get there, we're not going to always see eye to eye, but we can get there together. but, rev, there's a great story that i think we were told about bill clinton. he was running for governor, i think it was in '80. he lost. a young man, he had already been governor. supposed to be the end of his political career. the morning after the election when he lost, his staff members were looking out the window as they were packing up the boxes,

and there was bill clinton on the street shaking hands. and one of them looked to the other and they said, poor guy. he doesn't even know the election's over. and the other staffer said, oh, you don't understand. the other election may be over, but the next election has just begun. and clinton was shaking hands, kept shaking hands, was elected governor in two years, two years after that, two years after that, two years after that and became president of the united states. i guess that's the message. we don't have, none of us right now, we're trying to figure out what hit last week, but one thing we know is there's a lot of work to be done. >> and there's a lot of people that will be affected and impacted in the interim. >> exactly. >> and i think we can't miss the forest for the trees. when we have a new president,

and that's who donald trump is, regardless of my views of him, we've got to figure out how we have people not suffer more than they can suffer if we're not dealing with that. that's why when there were those -- and there were not as many as i thought that said, why would you and mika meet with donald trump? he's going to be the president. if you can meet with him, meet with him. that, to me, is no different than when people said to me, why would kamala harris go talk to bret baier. on one side she can talk to br it baier, but on the other side he shouldn't come on "morning joe," i don't think we have an equal judgment here because i think all sides should be talking to all sides. i wouldn't meet with him because i felt it would be a photo-op and he promoted things and we should be discussing issues.

i know he's a promoter. if he had been born black, he would have been don king. that's what he does well. i would say i hope in your conversations we should ask donald trump -- you talked about black men would be with you. where is the black man being nominated by you for your cabinet? there's no black that has been nominated on his cabinet? that needs to be raised rather than who is talking, let's deal with what we're talking about. >> i will say, first of all, thank you to everyone who was so kind last night. willie, yesterday i saw for the first time, a massive disconnect there was between social media and the real world because we were flooded with phone calls from people all day. literally around the world. a very positive, very supportive, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. once in a while

i would get a text, oh, man, i hope you're doing okay. i would call them back, eddie, are you on twitter? and he goes, i am. i'm not so we've had a good day. mika had a wonderful event and it's fantastic. we're going to do -- all of us will do the best we can do and we're all working towards a better america. >> take it day by day, people. >> again, you can predict the future by shaping the future. but the reason i wanted to talk about that one-fourth of americans that voted for donald trump, one-fourth for kamala harris, is there's another election in two years. now i don't care who wins and how big they win, we've seen time and again -- and we talk about it -- americans go back and forth and back and forth with their picks. if republicans, if donald trump,

if republican senators put in as an attorney general somebody that three women have testified, i believe, if i'm correct, he had sex with an underannaled woman at a drug-fueled party -- and what i read in "the wall street journal" was he paid two other women for sex -- if that is something that republican senators and donald trump are okay with, there will be consequences at the voting booth two years from now. and of course we always, oh, we won. oh, we won. oh, we can do whatever we want. really? because that's what i heard a lot of democrats saying after barack obama won. and two years later the tea party came roaring into town. this and other of these picks, republicans would be smart to advise and consent. and donald trump would be smart to back off of them in two or

three of these cases because there are elections two years from now and things just won't go well. >> think about it in the case of matt gaetz, we're parsing whether the young woman alleged to have had sex with matt gaetz was 17 or 18. this is a sitting member of the house of representatives in 2017, he had just been sworn in. so does character count or not? that's a question for donald trump. it's a question for republicans. they've long lectured about character. put qualification to the side and we go down the list and will ask those questions, but to rev's point and your point to underline what you were saying yesterday, i wasn't at mar-a-lago. i've never been to mar-a-lago. never been invited. i guess i should be offended by that. but nothing changes for me and i think for you guys either from before election day, which is you know how we have criticized donald trump. you know about his policies. you can see it in the people

he's nominating. you'll see it when we talk about his plan for mass deportation. none of that changes for me. none of that changes for us in the way we will criticize that. he is the president of the united states. that's the fact of the matter. he won very narrowly. i would point out just yesterday as more votes came into california, he has slipped under a 50% majority nationally. all of those swing states save for arizona within the margin of error. the polling actually was right in those states. >> when we were saying every day this race is a tie, it was a tie. >> it was. he swept the battle ground states. true, in that way he was overwhelming. >> within the margin of error which, again, that's how you win elections these days. 2016 within the margin of error. 2020 within the margin of error. 2024 within the margin of error. we are a 50/50 nation. i guess the question is, side issue, when are we going to learn to work together? >> i'm deeply skeptical and it might be an understatement that

he will suddenly be this bipartisan figure given the history and nominations he is making, but we will cover him as we have been covering him. still ahead, we'll dig into president-elect trump's plan to use the military to conduct mass deportations and the potentially wide-ranging impacts. plus, dozens of pro-democracy protesters in hong kong have been sentenced to prison. live to bay eijing on a trial. we're back in 90 seconds.

♪♪ ♪♪ so let's get back to those nominations with correspondent dasha burns and political reporter for axios, hans nichols, the author of the axios hills newsletter. good morning to you both. hans back to that reporting about some of the pressure donald trump is reported to be applying personally to senators about matt gaetz. this does seem like the one place, hope flip there are others, but one place where donald trump might lose a fight in the senate. is it your sense they will cross him at least on matt gaetz? >> that's the open question and i think all of us reporters, it's incumbent upon us to get a sense of just how intense this battle is, it's an institutional

battle between the senate and the presidency and the battle is joined. when the president of the united states starts perfectlily calling senators, leaning on them, there's no way out of that showdown. it's interesting that trump didn't apparently really call any senators before he made these nominations, right. not a whole lot in the advise and consent part and, two, we've got to see what the senators say when they get pressed and pushed by donald trump. senator cramer said he's very persuasive. everyone knows senators don't like being told what to do. they like their prerogatives and want to see the contents of that report and want to give gaetz a fair hearing but want to know what's in there and it's the entire report or just the content of the report that allow the details to come out.

are they willing to defy the president who handed them the majority. >> in most cases they aren't going to want to do that. there are a lot of senators up two years from now and people like mitch mcconnell. there's susan collins, lisa murkowski. we can't ever be shocked. let me just say i just might get close to being shocked if those two women mitch mcconnell and other republicans fall in line behind a congressman, as the testimony said, had sex with a 17-year-old woman, statutory rape. had two other women there who testified under oath -- they all testified under oath -- and then

he quit two days before the report was going to come out to stop the report from coming out. i've been around a lot of senators. i know a lot of senators. they don't want to give up their advise and consent, and they've also been around long enough to know this stuff blows back. they were there when karl rove in 2004 said permanent republican majority -- nancy pelosi, speaker two years later. they were there when barack obama's people said, you know, permanent obama majority. two years later, they saw what happened. so, yeah, they've been through this. they've been to this rodeo. and they understand you really can't select a guy that has had testimony against him that he had sex with an underage girl, who was a junior in high school, at drug-fueled parties, and defend that on the campaign

trail two years from now. just like that bill clinton story, senators up in two years, do you know what they're doing right now? they're thinking about that election. how do i win? that's how they think. so, yeah, i don't know how they get from here to there regardless of what the incoming president might say. >> and the incoming majority leader, john thune, is an honorable guy, a decent guy, a good leader. is he going to stand by, is he going to put his name on matt gaetz? >> he's a dad. >> is he going to put a vote to matt gaetz? dasha burns, you're covering this as well. matt gaetz is just one of the names that have caused outrage, by the way, not just democrats but some republicans, pete hegseth defense as well, bobby kennedy and tulsi gabbard as dni. what is your sense in washington, what is your sense on capitol hill of the battles republicans may choose to fight with donald trump here? is it a case of we've got to vote down matt gaetz, but we'll give you tulsi gabbard in exchange? >> you know president-elect

trump does not want to give an inch here, and there are a couple of agencies that have been sort of a thorn in his side for a long time now. you talk about dod. that's a place where in his first administration he felt like he did not have the right people in place. he wasn't happy with how the military was run, with who was running the military. that would not execute his orders as he wanted them to, mostly because he wanted to follow the law and follow precedent. enter pete hegseth who does not have the standard qualifications for that role, and who also has been accused of sexual assault. of course he denies those allegations. so that's an important pick for mr. trump because of the loyalty that he feels hegseth will have and the kinds of -- how he will execute what he wants. when it comes to matt gaetz, the doj is an agency that he has railed against at every rally

that i've been to, and he has campaigned on the message of weaponization of the justice system. matt gaetz was one of the biggest proponents of that message. he amplified that message. he talked about bringing these agencies like the doj, the fbi quote, unquote, to heel or dismantling them altogether. a lot of these picks, he is specifically choosing people who are in opposition to the very agencies that they are being tasked with overseeing, and every time lately he's had the choice between someone more traditional or someone more cut from the maga mold who would kind of shake up or potentially blow up an agency, that's the direction that he's gone, willie. >> nbc's dasha burns and political reporter for axios, hans nichols.

coming up, a record number of people will travel for thanksgiving. we'll talk to the head of the tsa straight ahead on "morning joe."

♪ ♪ [ gasps ] you're green. i am.

oh! ahh!! [ laughter ] don't tell me you have nothing to wear? you've been glinda-fied. the wonderful wizard of oz, summons you to the emerald city. think of what we could do... together. ♪♪ time to take a look at the other stories making headlines. wait until the second one. that's why i thought you'd be interested. lawyers for sean "diddy" combs want a new court hearing after authorities seized materials from his jail cell. the attorneys say prosecutors are using documents to keep combs behind bars until his may

trial. prosecutors accuse him of orchestrating a social media campaign aimed at influencing the jury pool. combs denies that and the allegations of sex trafficking and racketeering. new research shows one in five adults regularly get their news from influencers on social media. the number is even higher among younger americans with almost 40% under the age of 30 getting their news from those sources. according to the pugh research center, the social media site x remains the most widely accessed platform followed by instagram and youtube. >> i mean, that comes obviously for political news, and, mike, that's the challenge. you grew up in a newsroom like gene grew up in a newsroom. that's a lot of challenge for a lot of mainstream media sources. do they make themselves relevant again to hear 20% of adults who

actually get influencers on social media? maybe somebody who makes baskets and while they're making baskets they look up and say, vote for candidate x. >> i don't know how they -- how we make ourselves relevant again, bus we can't keep it 20 second snippets on an iphone. >> morsels. >> getting the news digest in less than a minute on your phone as you're walking in the crowd with coffee in one hand and the phone in the other. i don't know how to catch up with that. >> gene robinson, do you agree with mike? i find this hard to believe that younger voters would be more interested in getting an entertaining 20-second news snippet than watching a cable news show for four hours from 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. come on! it seals like an easy choice to us here. >> what is wrong with these people? >> exactly.

>> i mean, look, if i knew the answer, you know, i would implement it immediately, right, and reverse this, but we have to compete. the answer is, we don't know how to compete with the social media basket making influencers or whatever, but we have to. and we've got to figure out ways to do it and maybe we make our own 20-second snippets and we meet viewers where they are. we meet news consumers where they are because they're not here, and that's the problem. coming up, actor josh brolin joins us live in studio. we'll talk about his long run in hollywood and his revealing new memoir. that's straight ahead on -- >> can i ask about the adventurers? >> no. >> is that okay? >> is he in the avengers? >> oh, my lord. "end game," please. >> these are things i don't watch. more coming up with josh

brolin. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that's why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i've ever seen.

it's people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech. that's why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms. it is so important now more than ever.

so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty, for just $19 a month. use your credit card and you'll get this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you're helping to protect the rights of all people. the aclu is in all 50 states, d.c. and puerto rico defending our first amendment right of free speech and all of your constitutional rights. because we the people, means all of us. so please, call or, go online to myaclu.org today.

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪ let's turn overseas, dozens of former politicians and activists were sentenced to prison today in hong kong. the mass trial targeted legal scholars, opposition strategists and leading voices in the pro-democracy movement. china imposed crushing national security laws on hong kong in 2020 following months of wide scale demonstrations against chinese rule. the crackdown has been called a, quote, knockout blow to hopes for democracy in hong kong. joining us now live from beijing nbc news international correspondent janis mackey frayer. janis, what more can you tell us

about this? >> reporter: willie, this trial is seen as the most significant sign of beijing tightening its control of hong kong. dozens of pro-democracy activists facing conspiracy charges under this national security law that was impoemsed in 2020. all but 2 of the 47 lawmakers and politicians who were arrested back in 2021 were convicted today, and the crime, according to authorities, was holding or taking part in an unofficial primary election. among them was benny tai, a law professor. got ten years. 20 people given terms of five to eight years. others, including josh wra hwang jailed for over four years. hwang pleaded guilty to avoid a life sentence. the law was beijing's response to those protests in hong kong in 2019. the government here saying it was necessary to stop challenges to china's sovereignty. it's now made certain slogans a crime and expressing ideas about politics as dangerous.

censorship and digital surveillance have been stepped up. when i last spoke to joshua hwang after the law came into effect he said, well, it doesn't mean we give up and stop. we're never going to stop fighting, but the law and then the arrests and now this trial have worked to all but end the pro-democracy movement, or it's at least pushed it well into the shadows. critics are saying it's the end of the rule of law in hong kong and tomorrow jimmy lf ai, the publisher, has been in solitary confinement, faces charges of collusion and sedition that are widely seen as politically motivated and there have been international calls to have lai, who is now 76 years old, to be republic leased immediately. coming up, our next guest is a leading voice on the rise of artificial intelligence. former google ceo eric schmidt weighs in on the future of a.i. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." ."

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the outcome of this election is not what we wanted, not what we fought for, not what we voted for but hear me when i say -- hear me when i say -- the light of america's promise will always burn bright. [ applause ] as long as we never give up and as long as we keep fighting. >> that was vice president kamala harris earlier this month conceding the election to donald trump and urging to her followers to continue fighting for democracy. stereotypes have, of course, long hindered female candidates,

casting them as somehow too emotional, weak, or sensitive, and as analysts continue to examine whether or not these stereotypes played a factor in this election cycle, a new report shows the number of people who feel comfortable with a woman in leadership is on a downward trajectory in some of the world's most advanced economies. here to discuss why, maggie mcgrath, editor of "forbes. women." your team at "forbes women" has been reporting on this. what did you find when it came to g-7 countries, men and women in leadership positions? >> there's this really interesting gender index and what it does is asks people in some of the world's largest economies whether men or women are more suited for leadership. and the goal of this is to have a score of a 100.

according to an early release of the 2024-2025 data we are far from that level. the score for the g-7 fell to 68. this is the lowest score since the index was launched. it ticked down to 72 two years ago. was 70 last year. this is the third year in a row that attitudes towards female leaders fell in some of the world's largest economies and what's interesting and concerning is that within the u.s., because, of course, the g-7 includes canada, germany, france and other countries. within the u.s. when asked are you comfortable with a female political leader, 47% said yes and that polling was done in september and october. >> oh, my gosh. >> before the presidential election. >> there are only 29 countries where women serve as heads of state or government and of the g-7 only italy, only one

currently has a woman in a top position. what is behind -- why do you think we're seeing these regressive attitudes, if i may, toward women in leadership roles? i thought we were sort of forging ahead, weren't we? >> i thought we were, too. i think it's a complicated picture. researchers have a lot to discover. it comes down to the implicit bias we have been talking about in these women value segments. a few weeks ago we were talking about that one study talking about how people have more trouble assessing a woman's potential for a role she's never held before than a man. >> right. >> and i think it goes a long way to explain why the reykjavik index is finding there's a gender divide in how people view corporate roles so people are more suitable for the more feminine sectors like education and health care. men are more suitable for roles like engineering and automotive and manufacturing, which is also kind of wild when you think about a woman runs one of the largest car companies in the

world, gm. that brings me to 29% of american c suites are occupied by women, which is progress. that's up from 15%. 29% is very obviously not parody. >> let me ask you this, just 47% of those questioned in the u.s. this year said they were very comfortable with a female political leader. so it leads to this question. how much do you think these feelings played in kamala harris' bid for the presidency, and what's the takeaway for women who want to enter politics? >> i think these feelings played more into the voters' minds than people might even be willing to say. obviously we know that there were a lot of issues on voters' minds as they entered the polls this year, but right now i'm thinking about a 2017 study from colorado state university called every woman is the wrong woman,

the fee presidency is coded as masculine or requiring masculine traits, and academics and media analysts believe that women are punished for their more feminine traits. to your question about what this means for women who want to enter politics, i do not think the message is to mimic men. i know from my interviews with ceos and founders that people are looking for you authenticit right now from their political leaders and corporate leaders. and i'm thinking about a story that someone on our 50 over 50 told us. agility robotics ceo peggy johnson, she talked about a time someone told her earlier in her career be more assertive and so there was one meeting where she banged the table and she said, i'm talking. and afterwards, someone said to her, that wasn't like you. why did you do that? and so she took a step back and reflected on the genuine traits that she carries as a leader. she's an introvert.

she listens and that listening has fueled her into some of the most powerful positions in technology. >> i think the more of us that are there, the more that it becomes possible. so strength in numbers and don't give up even though, maggie, this has been a slightly depressing segment, okay, because some of the findings are not the way that we would like them to be at this point given the fact we know that we can lead and actually companies that have women leaders or diversity at the top do better in so many ways. >> we do know that, but i think it's incumbent upon the media to keep telling these stories and that pugh study a few minutes ago, i think, plays into this environment. >> sure does, yeah. >> i think we need more of those influencers because we know young people, according to the reykjavik index, are doubting gender -- the ability for women to lead. we just need to keep telling the stories of the women who are doing it competently. >> and we will. maggie mcgrath, thank you so

much. don't forget nominations for the "forbes" know your value 50 over 50 global list are open now. if you know a woman who lives in europe, the middle east, africa, asia or south america who is shattering age and gender norms, consider nominating her today. you also can nominate yourself. you can get all the details at forbes.com and knowyourvalue.com. maggie, thank you. up next on "morning joe," the latest from washington on donald trump's transition to the white house and his controversial cabinet picks. and the dow is dropping this morning before the bell. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin will have insight on that and a final push by the biden administration to break up big tech. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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they had an america first gala at mar-a-lago, of course, where trump got an introduction

from none other than the italian stallion himself. >> when georgia washington defended this country, he had no idea that he was going to change the world. because, without him, you can imagine what the world would look like. guess what, we got the second george washington. congratulations! [ cheers and applause ] bye. >> i guess those punches rocky took to the head were real after all. >> trump has made, what is it, 12 cabinet level appointments in the 12 days since the election. how does he do it? volume. because trump reportedly swipes through potential cabinet picks on giant screens in what some are calling white house tinder. tinder? really, i would have gone with unhinged or okaystupid. welcome to the fourth hour

of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, time to wake up, everybody. and 9:00 a.m. in the east where we have been up for a long time. jonathan lemire is still with us. president-elect donald trump is still reportedly making phone calls -- especially you, lemire -- yeah, okay. making calls to senators pressing them to support his pick for attorney general. nbc news senior washington correspondent hallie jackson has the latest. >> reporter: this morning new scrutiny for matt gaetz, president-elect trump's embattled pick for attorney general. mr. trump has been reaching out reportedly to senators to ask them to back gaetz's nomination. the now former florida congressman resigned his seat last week ending a house ethics committee investigation into allegations he has denied including illicit drug use and sex with a then 17-year-old girl at a florida party in 2017. attorney joel leppard represents a woman who says she was there. what did your client witness at this party? >> she was walking outside to

the pool, and she observed to her right a friend, who was 17 at the time, of having sex with representative gaetz. they were leaned up to what she described as a game table of some type. >> reporter: did your client believe gaetz at the time knew that her friend was under age? >> she testified that her belief was that representative gaetz had no knowledge that she was under 18. >> reporter: leppard said his clients, both the alleged witness and another woman, testified to that house committee this spring. >> they put a number of venmo and paypal payments by representative gaetz and asked both of my clients what were each one of these payments made for, and my clients repeatedly testified that was for sex. >> reporter: the justice department ultimately declined to bring charges against gaetz and a gaetz's spokesperson says these are to derail the trump

administration. >> the fact of the matter is whether we get the ethics report or not, the facts are going to come out. >> reporter: also coming under fire mr. trump's pick to run the nation's health agency, robert f. kennedy jr., his own cousin, the u.s. ambassador to australia, taking aim at his anti-vaccine positions. >> i think it's dangerous and i don't think most americans share them. >> nbc's hallie jackson reporting there. joining us now nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. garrett, good morning. so what are you hearing as we sift through this list of names, especially matt gaetz, but going down the line of tulsi gabbard and bobby kennedy jr. and pete hegseth at defense as well about the likelihood of there being enough votes for them to get through? >> reporter: a couple things, willie. you can expect democrats to sit on their hands and vote against all of these picks, but sitting on their hands now sort of strategically to make sure it is apparent that the opposition to these picks to the degree that

it exists is coming from republicans. they don't want the narrative to become this is democrats stopping donald trump's picks. they want, if possible, republicans to be the ones put in those positions. and i think there's varying degrees of resistance among republicans. time is of the essence here. you heard from john core cornyn saying the facts will come out. republicans who are opposed to matt gaetz, which privately some reporting indicates could be as high as half the conference, wants the facts to come out soon, because the difference between being opposed to matt gaetz privately and willing to vote against matt gaetz publicly either in a committee hearing or on the senate floor is enormous, and you could see a huge drop-off between sun like a lisa murkowski, who has proved willing to vote against trump picks in the past, who is impervious to the pressure he's able to provide against other senators. that's like one no vote. getting from one to four, which is what you would need to block these picks, i think is

enormously difficult. there's this mad scramble for information now, including this house ethics committee meeting tomorrow where there will be more pressure to release that report on gaetz that i think will be really determinative of what happens down the line if this gets to a confirmation hearing, if it gets to a senate floor vote, every day improves the chances of those individuals. the information is available to senators now where they might be able to convince trump to pull some of these folks will make a big difference. on that end talking to trump sources, as i switch between the hill and the transition, trump is dug in and he and jd vance are applying direct pressure on senators to back these picks. it's going to be a showdown here in the united states senate over the next couple of weeks in particular. >> and as you say that ethics report, a bipartisan ethics report in the makings for two, three years now, it's going to find the light one way or the other, whether the committee releases it or not or journalists may get his or her hands on it, it will become public information. one of the theories we've heard,

garrett, is that perhaps matt gaetz is a sacrificial lamb for donald trump, that he might be willing to let that go in exchange for all the others. are you hearing that still or has that fallen by the wayside? >> reporter: look, i put myself on the entire opposite side of the theory. i think this is donald trump in a power move trying to assert dominance over the united states senate. keep in mind the context here when the pick was announced late last week. he had republican senators who had been crowing about their big victories about donald trump's mandate. he essentially slammed the door and said, that's right, here is my mandate and here is who i want. a lot of these senators have had to toe the party line on weaponized doj, on the idea of lawfair, the department of justice had grown out of control. what matt gaetz was saying, they are, too. now trump is saying, you have to own this with me. it's a huge challenge whether they meant what they said about trump's mandate and about how corrupt they think the department of justice has

gotten. that's why i think the personal issues involving matt gaetz will be crucial to whether he passes or fails in this confirmation process. republican senators are not going to be able to credibly attack him on his positions on the department of justice, which they have also been sharing for most of the last two years. >> and to your point, garrett, the timing coming the same day that john thune was elected majority leader not someone that donald trump particularly is fond of. let's talk about where this could go, of recess appointments. where do you talk to people you're talking to on the campaign and on the hill, how likely is this? >> reporter: look, i think the idea of recess appointments hanging over the senate is useful to donald trump. it's interesting to hear how it's discussed. the republican senator and trump ally was on "meet the press" over the weekend and said, look, if democrats have obstruction here, we do go down that route. democrats are not in a position to obstruct anything, in the senate in particular.

you need 50 seats. republicans have 53, it looks like, to play with here. so i think having that as a threat against republicans who want to protected the prerogatives of the senate, i think provides a lot of pressure to vote for these picks particularly some of the less controversial than matt gaetz ones. going to recess appointments, especially over the will of the senate and the house, would be a nuclear option here by trump. it's hard to overstate exactly how badly that would break the system that has been in place since the founding of the republic to essentially dismiss the senate and say we're going to do this our own way. and so i think all parties would like to avoid that. but for trump, it's a very useful threat at least in this moment. >> all right. nbc's garrett haake, thank you very much. we appreciate it. to other news now, president biden is making his final appearance at the g-20 summit in brazil. the two-day event wraps up later today.

the president delivered the opening remarks yesterday. he spoke about the conflicts in ukraine and gaza and thanked the group for all it has accomplished over the years. >> as you know, this is my last g20 summit. we've made progress today but i urge you to keep going and i'm sure you will despite my urging or not. this group has within its power ushering in a new era of sustainable development to go from billions to trillions to those most in need. this goal may sound lofty, but this group can achieve that. >> president biden was actually not photographed with all of the other g20 leaders yesterday. the president arrived just as the picture was being taken. the prime ministers of canada and italy also missed the photo. a senior u.s. official says the picture was taken early due to

logistical issues. can't they just wait? i mean, can't they just wait for the president to show up? what's the deal? okay. well, their loss. let's turn now to former google ceo and chairman eric schmidt. he is co-author of the new book entitled "genesis: artificial intell generals hope and the human spirit." one of his co-authors was the late dr. henry kissinger. it's good to have you, and i actually want to start with your -- there are two co-authors, and they really all bring something different to the book. explain the three co-authors of this book. >> dr. kissinger, of course, was a great patriot and a great diplomat. >> yes. >> and his impact on our world is extraordinary. >> and a rival and friend of my father's. >> exactly. his brilliance was such that at 95 he could learn a new field. he needed teachers. craig and i helped him understand what algorithms and

so forth were but he was working on the question of humans and their self-identification, how do we see ourselves, since he was studying at harvard right after world war ii. so that's what got him excited about a.i. >> so tell us now what the focus of the book is and where you feel a.i. can it be beneficial to our future and where the great challenges lie. >> the great thing about a.i. is to be incredibly optimistic about its impact on health and science but worried about its use and misuse by evil people, bad governments, all that kind of stuff. there's plenty of good and bad together. the good outpaces the bad by far. so, to me, the most important thing is how we react to it. >> right. >> every child now will grow up with a.i. for the rest of their lives and a.i. will change them. the book talks about this. >> and so, eric, when you -- i think we hear there's great

benefits in medicine and education and all kinds of places, can we be specific about that? what does that mean in, say, medicine? i think the sexier stories are of gloom and doom and the machines are i can at thatting -- how will it make our lives better and easier over the next generation? >> much faster drug discovery. the computer can sort through the different options. we don't understand biology so we have to look through. it can run tests while the humans are having coffee to find the drugs that cure cancer and other diseases. this is a material improvement in human health. climate change, you will not solve climate change without new materials, new energy sources and in particular fusion. you need a.i. for that. over and over again you need the core advances in chemistry and physics and math and so forth. eventually these systems will be smart enough they can develop whole new mathematical series that maybe even we as humans can't figure out.

>> interesting. >> we cover politics every day and during the campaign we see deep fakes and false information and all of that. there are those concerns and calls for legislators, for the congress, to make laws to sort of pump the brakes. it seems to me the united states congress could never keep pace with technology. so what are some appropriate guardrails at this moment for a.i.? >> remember, this stuff is happening much faster than anybody thinks and it's accelerating because there's so much money, trillions of dollars of investment in people to build a.i. around the world. so from my perspective, the most important thing is to look at the extreme cases when there's real harm. we can argue if this deep fake of us was humorous or not, if it's satirical. if there's real harm, somebody is hurt, somebody is killed, there needs to be change in legislation that makes that much tougher to do and the liabilities much clearer. one of the problems with a.i. sometimes when you ask it, it cannot today tell you how it

knows something. that's a problem that has to get solved. >> yeah. >> let's talk about education and the impact good and bad a.i. might have. i don't mean just a student turning to chatgpt for a term paper, though that is a real thing right now, but bigger picture. how could a.i. both help people learn but also maybe get in the way so they don't have to do it on their own? >> first place, we should solve the education problem globally. a.i. can build a tutor that will speak your language and train itself based on how you learn and can do that in math and in physics and art and science and language and so forth and do it on your phone. the vast majority of the world doesn't have access to our education. that would help all of us. so there are so many ways. the real issue to me is this tension between information and misinformation and how it's essentially produced. it's so easy to produce little rabbit holes people, especially young people, end up and they ultimately convinces them to do

really terrible things like kill themselves. those issues have got to get policed either through regulation or through liability or through voluntary guardrails. >> the book is a fascinating look. this is the issue of our time. i'm curious, eric, your point of view just as a businessman taking a step back, new administration coming in, regulation changes, what the economy more broadly looks like to you as a man who understands the way it works so well. >> well, we have to take the future president, past and future president, at his word as to what his goal is. his goal is to unleash economic growth. most people in my industry would be happy with that. he also, however, brought antitrust charges against both google and meta way back when, and his current fcc appointment wrote a series of arguments that say we should deregulate permitting, which is great for telecommunications, but he also said the big tech companies should be heavily regulated on content. it seems to me the administration has not yet figured out are they

fundamentally libertarian or fundamentally trying to regulate? they need to sort that out. we don't know. >> former google ceo and chairman eric schmidt, thank you. >> thank you. >> a new book "genesis: artificial intelligence, hope and the human spirit." it's on sale now. an important book. thank you for coming on the show this morning. all right, a real-world example of one of the perils of artificial intelligence, an a.i.-generated nude photo scandal has shut down a private school in pennsylvania and cost two administrators their job. the lancaster country day school announced it will part ways with the head of the school as well as the board president. the move comes after a lawsuit alleges a former student created sexually explicit a.i. images of nearly 50 female classmates under their watch. the suit was filed by multiple parents who were outraged in how

the school handled the incident claiming they never contacted police or child protective services. classes at the school were canceled yesterday. wow. okay. more to talk about with eric. he'll have to come back. time for a look at the other stories making headlines. russian president vladimir putin is changing the country's official nuclear doctrine in what is seen as a warning to the united states. the krem linl lin says it could consider using nuclear weapons if subject to a conventional missile assault by a country that is supported by a nuclear power. that comes after president joe biden agreed to allow ukraine to fire long-range american missiles deep into russia. about one in eight public school students in new york city was homeless during the past school year. according to the group advocates for children of new york, at least 146,000 students did not have permanent housing.

a 23% increase from the year before. nearly all of those students were either living in shelters or temporarily with friends or family. texas could make lessons about the bible part of the reading and language in curriculum in schools. school districts would receive a financial boost to adopt them. the lessons would cover kindergarten through fifth grade. state officials are expected to vote on the plan this week. monet sold for $65.5 million at auction in new york city. the water lilies era was dated between 1914 and 1970. no, he didn't buy it. i thought he didn't. the piece kicked off a battle between three bidders. not one sitting at this table. an anonymous bidder in asia buying the work. coming up, 60 million

households watched netflix's live stream of the fight between jake paul and mike tyson, despite a number of technical glitches. but will the streaming giant solve those issues in time for its giant nfl slate on christmas day? plus, in what would be an historic crackdown for one of the world's biggest tech companies, will google be forced to sell off its popular chrome browser? we'll get the latest details -- i guess joe is getting them now -- when andrew ross sorkin joins us ahead.

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i keep wondering when this bromance between trump and elon musk is going to blow up like a spacex rocket. for now, at least, it april pierce to be going strong. >> he's done a fantastic job, an incredible mind and unbelievable entrepreneur, sort of everything. i'm asking him, what do you do best? and we were not able to figure it out, but it's a lot of things.

>> well, if you do figure it out, let us know, okay? >> all right. let's bring in the co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk box," andrew ross sorkin. >> i got andrew to answer the question. >> what is that? >> that has intrigued me since friday or saturday -- was the fight saturday? >> saturday night, joe. >> you and i have talked about -- >> i watched a show, "bad sisters." >> -- about how netflix is the standard. >> yes. >> whether it's disney, whether it's peacock, hulu -- >> they are the winners. >> netflix -- >> by a square mile. >> and that's who everybody is aiming to catch up to, which makes their absolute complete failure during the tyson fight all the more shocking. i'm going to ask, how did it happen? why didn't they just reach out to mlb.com and say, can we use

your stuff? they obviously let other people use their stuff. and how in the hell are they going to handle football games if they can't even handle a fight? >> you hit the real issue which is that if you are roger goodell that just made this big deal where these football gims ames going to air on christmas day -- there's not a lot of other programming. and now they have beyonce performing during one of the halftime games, to then watch this complete meltdown of the netflix system, you have to say to yourself, what are they going to be doing over the next six weeks to effectively ensure that those games are flawless? because i don't think anything less than flawless is going to be considered acceptable. i think there were two issues. one was a production issue, which was the folks producing the fight, which was to say some of the ear pieces weren't working. there were all sorts of little technical things.

but they become big technicals things. for those who could actually watch it, they could see those problems. the issue was the buffering, not being able to see anything for large periods of time. >> it was so bad. >> and what they're going to have to do to upgrade servers. they're going to have to, i imagine, partner with and buy access to other services who will help them effectively distribute this. you'll still get it through netflix, but all back end stuff, but needs to get taken care of. >> by the way, willie, that's why i talked about mlb.com. other people used their service. you can be up on mars and pick up the marlins/rays game. >> on your phone. >> they have the best service and a lot of people sub out. i think if i'm roger goodell -- i'm not going to tell roger goodell what to do -- but if i worked for the nfl, i would say, mr. goodell, i would suggest you tell them they either use, like, mlb or somebody else who knows how to do this or -- can you

imagine how angry nfl fans will be if on christmas day they sit down and it's like -- looks like -- >> peacock does a good job streaming. amazon does a good job. >> amazon does a great job now. if you remember, the very early days, there were a couple hiccups with that as well, but it wasn't in prime time. it wasn't certain types of games and everybody is watching. >> peacock and the olympics, they had the gold zone. i think peacock with that, not just because we work in the building with them, they set a new standard of how good that actually can be. and so when you don't see that standard, sports fans are savvy. what's goings-on here? some people subscribed to netflix to watch the football game, and they get a spinning wheel -- >> the objective of these live events is to get new subscribers. if you put your credit card number in and then all of a sudden the wheel is spinning, that is not going to be a

long-term fix. so they're going to have to spend -- and that will cost them money to actually fix. >> tell us about google, chrome -- >> you just had the former ceo of google sitting here, and chrome is the web browser that i think a lot of us use. the new question is whether the department of justice is going to force google considering that a judge has now determined they're a monopoly, if one of the remedies would be to say you have to spin out chrome and that the value of chrome is that so many of us search from it all the time. it's our default. and that in the future the worry is that all the information that's in chrome would just go back to google. if you wanted to use openai or one of these other services, they wouldn't be able to access it. if you want to spin it out -- >> does that mean it's like ma bell is spread out? google will have a new company that will --

>> a new company, it could just be called chrome, and they would have a browser. and the question is, how much money that browser company could make and whether that changes the competitive dynamic with which we all live in today. i'm not sure it will. and the truth is, there's some real questions if you were to break it up and put it over here, whether it would actually create some perverse incentives for others. one last piece to this, now that former president trump is now president-elect trump, a greater chance this does not happen. he has publicly said that while he cares about a fair tan competitive practices, he does not necessarily want google to be broken up. so we're going to have to watch. this could be a last-minute play by this version of the doj, the department of justice, under biden's administration, to sort of try to get this ball rolling before things switch over. >> one other business story to tell you about, the aerospace giant boeing is slated to lay off more than 2,000 workers in

oregon and washington amid plans to cut 17,000 jobs globally, about 10% of its workforce. the cuts come as the company tries to restart production of its 737 max jet and recover from a weeks long strike that halted most of its output. another round of cuts is expected next month. >> let me just say, andrew, as the chairman always said about boeing, it's always darkest just before the light goes completely out. how much worse can it get for boeing? >> i don't know. this piece of it was expected. in part, by the way, the strike hastened some of this. interesting the labor die am in aic -- dynamic going on. higher wages on one end, we'll pay higher here but less workers here. in the context of chrome, to connect it back to this, part of the problem in the united states is we have no competition really among those who make large

airlines. large airliners. it's boeing for the u.s. and that's it. lockheed martin used to. other people used to make planes. because of this, there's no competition. you could argue even the safety issues we've seen at boeing. is there just a sense the culture is off because there's nobody else that they're really sparring with, if you will, in a competitive environment. >> all right. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, as always, thank you very much. and coming up, the nation's airports could be more crowded this year than ever as a record 80 million people are expected to travel over thanksgiving. so how long will your wait be in the security line? that's the question. we'll talk to the head of the tsa about that next on "morning joe."

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♪♪ 37 past the hour. the transportation security administration is expecting a record amount of air travelers over the upcoming thanksgiving holiday. the agency projects at least 18.3 million passengers and crew will pass through their checkpoints from november 26 to december 2nd. this represents an increase of approximately 6% compared to last year. joining us now tsa administrator david pekoske. very good to have you on the set with us. >> great to be back, thanks. >> a lot of long lines, do you think? >> no, i don't think so. >> why? >> because we've increased our staffing. we've gotten more efficient at what we do and we can't keep pace with passenger growth. that doesn't make sense to me. we ought to find ways to be more efficient in things we do. and so i would expect if you're a standard passenger not precheck, you're going to wait 30 minutes or less.

that's pretty standard. it's been like that for the entire year. precheck passengers ten minutes or less. the thing with precheck we have a little over a third of all passengers on any given day are precheck travelers which is great. we're trying to continue to increase that number higher. we had a high of 37% two days ago, which is a really good sign, but we will open more precheck lanes. some precheck passengers think, hey, as this population grows, will i lose that time advantage that i have, and the answer is, no. it's coming from standards so we'll close the standard lane and open another precheck lane. >> you go for one interview, they clear you. you get through the line so much quicker. one of the ten heaviest travel days in tsa history all have happened this year, which is astonishing. i mean, a lot of people traveling more post covid. we know all that. what do you attribute this huge volume of travelers to? >> you're right. it's just the 24th of may, since the memorial day holiday, our ten busiest days ever.

busiest days 7th of july. what we attribute it to, rapid growth in the u.s. system. the economy is good. people want to travel and nowadays, airlines are full, airports are full, but we're all doing our best between airlines, airports and tsa to make sure we move people through in the standards we've had in the past which has been successful overall. >> how are you on staffing levels? any concerns about the congressional budget talks that are upcoming? >> our staffing is in fantastic shape. we have more staff than we've ever had. a year and a half ago congress passed a pay adjustment for tsa, that made our pay the same as every other federal agency. we were just trying to get parity. our attrition rates went down by 50%, so you can imagine how much better that is from -- think of the efficiency of having experienced people in these checkpoints now not leaving, staying with the agency. our attrition is 7.1%, which is

not that different than the rest of the federal government. it was north of 20%. >> it seemed the system was at a breaking point post covid because there just weren't enough people there. not just with tsa but air traffic controllers, pilots, et cetera, et cetera. that's all come back. as you were saying, more passengers but more efficiency, and the question is how does that carry over from this administration to the next? >> it continues. we've made significant investments in technology. basically every single p has new technology attached to it. we need to accelerate some of that technology, for example, the new x-ray that is we have, the c.t. or c.a.t. scan x-rays. we won't get done on the current pace of investment until 2042. that's a very long way off. and really not a very smart way to buy technology. you should buy it a little bit

quicker than that. so our pitch will be, hey -- and we have been making this. let's accelerate the technology investment. >> can i share a tsa pet peeve? >> oh, no. >> are you ready? because i try and really follow the rules. don't you get kind of nervous, put in the tray, listen, because they're telling you, right, they give you a -- >> no water. >> right, no water. they give you a piece of paper and say you don't have to take your shoes off, but, but -- you don't have to take your shoes off. i walk through and they beep and they say, take your shoes off. i'm just saying, i'm trying to help streamline the process. >> is there a question in there? >> do you understand what i'm saying? >> yes. and so thanks for the feedback. thank you for the feedback. it's good feedback p.m. and what we're doing -- >> it slows down the process. >> we're testing -- that's a prototype of testing, how we reduce the number of passengers

that remove their shoes in standard. >> i know. >> it's not easy. >> i try to explain they're going to beep, inget cut off, i go through, they beep, i'm in the line. i'm just trying to help. i get really nervous and want to do it right. >> thanks for your feedback is the equivalent of, bless your heart. >> i really appreciate it. >> tsa administrator david pekoske. >> great job. >> thank you. i appreciate it. coming up on "morning joe" -- i'm sorry, guys, it's just my opportunity. >> bless your heart. >> from his breakout role in "the goonies" to playing the lead to his take in "the avengers end game," josh brolin live in studio about his new, incredible memoir. "morning joe" will be right back.

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i'm sure historians will say, gosh, i wish he could have done better this way or that way. i'm sure something will pop into my head in the midst of the press conference, with all the pressure trying to come up with an answer hasn't happened yet. you know, i hope -- i don't want to sound like i haven't made mistakes. i'm confident that i have, it's just i haven't -- you know, you really put me on the spot, john. maybe i'm not as quick on my feet as i should be in coming up with one. >> being , hold on. that was "w," president george

w. bush, "w." "from under the truck" an uplifting book. >> it is. >> tell them about it, mika. >> the academy award nominated actor takes readers through his incredible life, the most dramatics and downs going back to his childhood in california where the seeds were planted for a successful career and a tumultuous personal life. and josh brolin joins us now. >> thank you. >> i am -- may i start? >> sure. that's why you're here. >> let's start here with -- >> first of all, thanks for being here. i heard you are not here all the time. >> no, we're glad to be here and we're glad to have you here. >> very happy to be. >> your mom -- i want to talk about your parents. >> okay. >> your late mother was a flight attendant in her early 20s but was afraid to fly unless she was drunk. she would insult and then outdrink cowboys be a truckers. she slept with a loaded 9

millimeter pistol at her bedside table. she was rumored to be on someone's hit list. my parents are like horses that maybe fell out of a trailer along a stretch of highway on the grapevine and now have gone sour. my parents have a look in their eyes that always suggests that they may bite you at some point. one has a maniacal look ready to strike at any moment, and the other has the same placid low stare as lenny of "miss and men." >> mika often just does audio books for you so you don't have to read your own book. >> the last line is the most important. >> you have to land it, sa administrator. >> both are dangerous. >> right on. >> tell me about living with your ents, i feel empathy to you and to them. explain why. why one might?

>> i think parenting, as we said before, us being parents, me being the parent of a 36-year-old, a 31-year-old, a 6-year-old and a 3-year-old, you find yourself, especially me looking back on what kind of a parent i was when i was 20 years old -- >> right. >> what kind of parent at 28, 37, 45, and it changes. >> it's amazing. >> we go through the trajectory, our normal absurd circus trajectory and then you're having to raise kids and your responsibility is to hopefully get them to become as self-sufficient and sure of themselves. how can you do that when you're in a life of perpetual adolescence? and for me, which i bring up here, the drinking and all that, alcoholism, whatever, but alcohol had an affect on our whole family -- >> right. >> -- that kept us in adolescence. >> you said were you born to drink.

>> i was birthed to drink. my mother birthed me to drink. i was, without being too creepy, i was a surrogate husband of sorts because my dad wasn't a drinker. he wasn't really a wild man. he would have three beers and kind of hold on to the table to make sure nobody saw him swaying, whereas, my mother didn't. she drove 100 miles an hour in a car, and i was in the seat next to her. it sounds -- it's very hard to promote a book like this because it's a very emotional book. hopefully it's poetic and it's ily viable. i was spinning for about a month doing the audible for this. i got halfway through it and thought, "what the hell did i do?" i have to burden of proof n anys exists. now people, like your response, people are reading it and every response is different. i did howard stern, which you mentioned yesterday morning, and he obviously had read the whole

book, and he had a visceral reaction. so there was this kind of kinship that we got to share throughout that two hours that that's what you hope for when you write something. i'm not writing about just my perpetual life on the red carpet waving at people. i don't find that particularly interesting. >> when i heard, josh, you were writing the book and the raw honesty, i thought of mcconaughey's book "green light" and he's the endorsement on the back of the book. i'm curious about the decision just to write the book, given what you just said, reading through it, oh, my god, what have i done? what am i releasing in the world. why did you feel it was important to take this out of your own heart, your own soul and share it with a whole bunch of other people? >> i don't think it's important. i don't think any of it is important. i just felt like -- i had written books before and kind of threw them into a dark corner and they've gathered dust. i've always written but i loved the act of doing this because it wasn't for me.

there was something with the idea of putting it out there. it was like when you hit 50, you either buy a porsche, if you have the money to, or you go another direction. it's almost like when you get sober. okay, i did that. i got away with it. and now i'm going to live this life and the way i want to live it. i feel it's a second life moment where i'm writing plays and i'm directing now and i wrote this memoir. i think the process for me was instead of, again, this word, adolescently copying other writers who i've loved, it was really becoming my own and especially because when i wrote the book, i wrote probably twice this and the process of cutting it down and clarifying was the hardest and most enlivening learning process of my life. >> that's incredible. >> ever. >> let's talk about some roles, but i want to start with a role -- >> i can read as "w" if you'd like. >> oh, please! >> mika has already done all the

reading. >> i have more sections. >> you have a connection with lawrence o'donnell. you know lawrence back from mr. sterling. >> i do. i know him from back in the day. that show didn't work. it didn't happen. it did work. it worked. it was a good show and people still bring it up, but our friendship lasted, and i like him very much. i usually -- there's a couple of people in your life that you go to and you go, how are we? how are we doing in this life? and he usually gives it to you pretty -- or gives it to me pretty groundedly. i feel there's always a sense of hope when i talk to him in reality. >> he's great. i wanted to ask you, also, we talked before, and i was talking about, you know, a lot of people want to talk to you about, you know, no country for old men and other great works that you've done. like i told you before, i was mesmerized by how "end game"

finished an "avengers" series with 26 films and one of the most remarkable and, again, whether people think it's middle brow or whatever, a remarkable achievement lately to fit 26 movies neatly into a three-hour finale, i thought it was a re, maable job. >> and to book end ten years of success and make the decisions that are going to be interesting enough to be the number one movie of all time. i don't know if it still is. i think, you know, it's that avatar kind of "avengers" thing that goes back and forth. what i love and thought marvel did a brilliant job at they brought in great actors. they brought in ruffelo, they brought this downey, they brought in paul bettany, really good actors. there was something humanizing about those movies that shouldn't have been. >> right. >> they're cartoons. >> and is there a role after all

these years that stands out to you where, i did a pretty damn good job here. i'm not sure that everybody saw it that should have seen it? >> there's a role i just did, "knives out 3" -- >> amazing. >> -- i was very pleased that i was chosen for that. it was a great cast. it's a brilliant script. he's a brilliant director. so i'm happy about that. but, you know, i'll go back and do like "flirting with disaster" where i play this bi-sexual atf agent with an armpit fetish. i'm a character actor. >> that is very specific. the new memoir is on sale now. josh brolin, thank you so much. >> amazing. >> thank you for sharing this. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. missing out on the things you love because of asthma?

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