♪♪ 4:00 in new york. an alarming series of incidents

beginning in the immediate aftermath of donald trump's election victory is compounding the fear. fear that many in this country have about their futures. and it's parking a conversation about how that's to push back against a potential wave of hate. the fbi is reporting over the weekend that a series of threatening text messages were sent to high school students and people in latino and lgbtq communities. phish saying this. some recipients reported being told they were selected for deportation or to report to a re-education camp. the messages have also been reported as being received via email communication. that is after text messages were sent to black americans in more than a dozen states after the election. "the new york times" reports that the messages, quote, told them they had to -- they had been selected to pick cotton and ordered them to report for slavery. some of the messages also made a reference to mr. trump.

some even claimed to be from his administration. a campaign spokesperson said it had absolutely nothing to do with those text messages. "the new york times" adds this reporting. quote, misogynistic social media posts surged in the aftermath of the election with phrases like your body, my choice and get back to the kitchen proliferating online. the threats are not happening in a vacuum, of course. they come at a time when latino communities are fearing what could happen if the trump administration follows through on the promised mass deportations. the lgbtq+ community right now fearing a roll back of legal protections and rights on the part of the trump administration and maybe even the supreme court, not to mention this is a moment in which many black americans fear a roll back of civil rights. add to that a moment in which women are anticipating almost

girding for a further erosion of their autonomy in a post-dobbs america. all of it naturally leading to a question that millions of americans have a right to ask. it's this. what does the resistance against hate in america look like if many of the institutions that have traditionally been a bulwark in protecting americans are now in the hands of the trump administration? for example, would a trump justice department led by an attorney general matt gaetz be active in combatting hate? would it do the same job that the biden administration has done? on that the a.p. reports, quote, justice department employees were already preparing for a major shake-up to the agency's agenda around civil rights and other matters before trump settled on gaetz to be the nation's top federal law enforcement officer. donald trump has also chosen brendan carr to lead the federal communications commission. that agency responsible for the

regulation of the media, among other things. on that "the washington post" reports this, quote, carr wrote in the fcc section of project 2025 that big tech posed a threat through its attempts to drive diverse political viewpoints from the digital town square. in other words, carr is pedaling the notion that conservatives are the ones being silenced on social media platforms. and many hear that he will kate for changes that will allow for even more hate speech to flourish on the internet. quote, carr's appointment drew criticism, including the chamber of progress which posted on x on sunday if i were confirmed it would be up to democrats to defend a content moderation protection policy that keeps the internet from becoming a cesspool. countering heat in the next chapter of the trump era a where we begin. president of the leadership conference on civil and human

rights maya wiley, also joining us former assistant director of counterintelligence at the fbi msnbc national security analyst frank figure lossy. we first bring in democratic congressman from california robert garcia, hits on the house oversight and homeland security committees. what is your understanding or have you had access to any briefings from the fbi about the hate messages sent via text and email? >> those conversations are actually just starting. it is incredibly concerning, especially to house democrats here in congress, on oversight, homeland security. these are threats that are being sent, not just to lgbtq young people, but it to black americans, to women, and it should be very concerning. we don't know where the threats are coming from. we do know that these phone numbers, these cellphones, emails are being purchased and masked and then these horrific

messages are actually being sent. what i also think is important for us it to remember and to note is that what you have a candidate for president that spends and spent the last couple of years saying that immigrants are poisoning the blood of this country or demeaning women or demeaning working people, this is the result that you are going to get, is there are people now empower that hateful messages actually are not going to be pushed back in this country. that somehow people get away with this behavior in harming others. it's very important at this moment that, yes, we had an election and yes, a lot of us are feeling defeated about the moment. we have to push back and fight against this, and in no circumstance should we allow people to receive these types of messages and not investigate it. >> i mean, i am thinking about the efforts -- and i remember somewhat being bipartisan to confront some social media companies about the impact on young girls of some of the hideous content online. would you rule out trying to

form a bipartisan effort to at least get to the bottom of where the hateful messages are coming from which so far targeted black americans, latino americans, lgbtq+ americans and females? >> 100%. we would love to see republicans come to the table in a bipartisan way and investigate where this is actually coming from. so far there has been zero to little interest. at this point republicans in the house want to do whatever donald trump commands them to do. and so this is very daeng rouse. it's important to note that we are seeing also young people, young lgbtq+ people that are literally scared. we're seeing much more need to support them. we are seeing call lines, suicide hotlines shoot up. we are seeing our organizations on the ground seeing more people actually visiting them calling, desperately seeking help and advice. >> this is an an impact on real lives. yes, republicans should come to the table and work with us. unfortunately i am not holding my breath. they seem very uninterested to

do anything productive at this moment except for help donald trump. >> let me read the reporting on what you are talking about from "the washington post." quote, calls to lgbtq+ crisis lines surged followings trump's victory with callers expressing feelings of isolation and fears they would lose access to gender-affirming health care or experience physical violence because of their gender or sexual identity. the trevor project a nonprofit focused on suicide prevention said a third of the calls before and after election day were from lgbtq+ youth also racial and ethnic minorities. what can you do? what can folks do to protect people again who are the most vulnerable right now? >> i would say, and i actually talked to some lgbtq+ youth groups, i'm gay myself.

i told them and i told others we are here to protect and fight for you and, yes, this is a very difficult moment, but we are not going to somehow discard our belief in civil rights and the rights of all people, not going to somehow not fight and stand up for trans families and young people and gay people. these are core values we should have not just as democrats, but as good human beings and good people. so while the other party now in the majority want to attack and belittle and bully, i think it's really important that at this moment we stand up for these groups and, by the way, when you are attacking gay kids, trans kids, these are children. these are kids that we are talking about with families. they should not be bullied and attacked. everyone of good conscience and goodwill should be standing up for them. what is the plan to stand up for injury colleague. let me read my colleague's

reporting. nancy mace said tuesday her effort to ban transgender women from using female bathrooms at the u.s. capitol is a direct response to the election of sarah mcbride who is set to be the first openly transgender person in congress. she was asked by reporters tuesday if the move was in response to mcbride. quote, yes, and absolutely, and then some, mace told reporters, adding, quote, i'm absolutely 100% gonna stand in the way of any man who wants to be in a women's restroom in our locker rooms, in our changing rooms. i will be there fighting you every step of the way. so that's happening up there. what is the plan? >> honestly, first i am disgusted by those vial comments and these efforts. why we are focusing on singling out one member, one member, a freshman member of this body now, and why we're policing that person and where they use the

restroom is shameful. we should push back on this disgusting rhetoric and actions. sarah mcbride has the support of the entire caucus and clearly of the people of delaware who sent her here to represent them. we should allow her to legislate. this attacking of a member, i think it's gross and it should bothers us, this is the first thing that this house majority is focused on. they are not talking about lowering the cost of the groceries. they are policing where someone uses the restroom. unfortunately, this is the vial behavior we should expect from them. hopefully, we can continue to stand up and not allow our values to move backwards. we stand 100% behind sara and she going to be an incredible legislator. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> let me come back you to on the text messages. we'll make our way back to nancy

in a second. what could be the different series of the case that would explain that after the messages were received and a lot of parents of kids got letters from their schools warning families that these messages were out there. i mean, they were targeted at kids, not adults. or i guess they didn't spare kids. what could be going on that there is not any update or information on the investigation? >> this is going to take some work, nicolle. you may remember almost a year ago the swatting incidents that were targeting so many people, and people were scratching their heads, where is this coming from in who has their hands on home phone numbers on people being targeted. after months of investigation, the first arrests that were made were people from outside the united states in eastern europe. so this takes a while. so what is the investigation

looking like? who is buying, if anyone, large lists of phone numbers? who is getting ahold. black fraternity number at colleges. how about students who are latino and their lists. where do those lists appear? and then you have to say, where are the calls coming from, are anonymizers being used? almost certainly so. there is a counterintelligence question here. is this russia? or a foreign adversary saying we are not done with you. yes, our guy won the election. but our main purpose is to divide and sow chaos and we have a track record of doing that racially, that's particularly the russian m.o. with us. so you have to figure this out. is it coming from inside the house, outside the house, what are the violations that prosecutors might use? this could easily be a hate crime, could be interstate communication of a threat, a

threat to kidnap and harm. if you tell people you are being rounded up tomorrow at this time for slavery or you are going to report to deportation camps, you could argue this is a federal interstate communication of a threat and add a hate crime to it because it's targeting ethnicity and race or sexual orientation or perceived ortation, all covered by federal law. on thor end, is this merely an fcc violation involving spam and texts. i think that doj are going to go high on this one. it will take some time. >> and is it the kind of investigation that requires the leadership of doj to be interested in getting to the bottom of it, frank? >> let me scutt to the chase where i think you are going. if this investigation goes beyond january 20th, i don't have high hopes that this will be taken seriously. >> let me show you what matt gaetz said about defunding agencies like the fbi and doj

before he was tapped to lead doj. >> seems like every time i turn around they are engaged in surveillance or list building or monitoring, and i don't care if it takes every second of our time and every ounce of our energy, we either get this government back on our side or we defund and get rid of, abolish the fbi, cdc, atf, doj, every last one of them if they do not come to heel. >> so, matt gaetz there in his own words. we either get the government back on our side or we defund and get rid of the fbi, the cdc, the atf, and the doj. every last one of them, if they do not come to heel. what do you think? >> our side? you know, our public institutions of government, of

federal government or any government supposed to be on the side. people all of the people. that is exactly why we had a civil rights movement. abolished slavery. allowed women to vote and people get to choose their own identities. one of the things that we won in winning passage of the civil rights act of 1964, which my institution, the leadership conference, worked to pass, was so that the department of justice of these united states would have a civil rights division that would protect all of our people. and so the very fact that we have anyone who has been nominated to head a federal agency is essentially saying there is only one side, there is only our side or theirs, it's exactly the kind of rhetoric from any politician or any person in power that becomes a kind of poison of words that

poisons the air, reaches and affects other people and gives permission. permission from what we have heard from the department of homeland security about fears about what we call terror, the folks who are sort of feel that they are legitimately engaging an act when they engage in a hate crime, as well as, frankly, from project 2025, which will now be given full permissions to take over organs of the federal government and undermine the missions of those entities, including the fcc that's supposed to help make sure that the ways in which we communicate with each other work for us and to our better angels. so i think the very rhetoric itself and anybody who is running government, who is purporting that it have a side is essentially telling us it is not on the side of every american.

>> we will is ask ask you stick. thank you for starting us off this hour. when we come back, donald trump choosing another television personality to join his incoming administration. the latest in a long list of somewhat familiar spaces joining him in washington. plus a whirlwind of a day in the ethics investigation into matt gaetz. new developments as donald trump starts to press and personally call senators urging them to approve his selection to be attorney general. and later in the broadcast remember when trump was federally charged with keeping classified documents at his -- mar-a-lago. today he is getting intelligence briefings again. we will bring you those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. n't go anywhe. most from medicare. if you're eligible for medicare, it's a good idea to have original medicare. it gives you coverage for doctor office visits and hospital stays. but if you want even more benefits, you can choose a medicare

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some breaking news to tell you about. in the last few minutes donald trump adding another former television personality to his administration. nominating dr. oz to serve as the centers for medicare & medicaid services administrator. that's a position that manages medicare and medicaid and other programs that cover half of all americans. half of all the people in the country. it's a position under the department of health and human services it that will require senate approval to be confirmed. trump says dr. oz, who ran and lost the senate pennsylvania race in 2022 to john fetterman, will work closely with rfk jr. to, quote, take on the illness industrial complex and all the horrible chronic diseases left in its wake.

trump says this about dr. oz. quote, there may be no physician more qualified and capable to make america healthy again. dr. oz, of course, has no experience in government. joining our coverage is political columnist and msnbc national analyst john heilemann. also msnbc contributor a and columnist charlie sykes. maya still with us. john, president gets to pick whoever he wants in their cabinet. and this president has been very attracted to television figures. >> well, i mean, you know, nicolle, least surprising thing in the world. that's all he is, is a television figure. also our next president of the united states -- you know, i -- i have to say that in the spectrum -- i don't want to dismiss any of -- any of these nominees, dismiss their -- the importance of them.

this is an important public health -- this is an important job that relates to health care, and at least it is true that dr. oz is a doctor. and i don't want to try to define deviancy down here, but i will say that, you know, if you had -- if he had nominated dr. oz to be the head health and human services we would have a breathed a sigh of relief if the alternative was robert f. kennedy jr. who has no relationship to public health whatsoever. the president gets to pick the people that they get pick, they want to pick, that's their prerogative. when you their that quote which is that the two biggest jobs in terms of health care policy and health care administration in the country now are going to be run, if donald trump gets his way, by robert f. kennedy jr. and dr. oz. that is not something that anyone who has any relationship to the healthcare system is going to greet with a lot of

enthusiasm i would think if they are in their right mind. >> charlie sykes, there is something about the two planes. there is the intention from the trump side, which is to throw shiny round shaped grenades that the news cycle. there is a political reality. there are no agencies that touch more people and have more political power if they get screwed up than medicare and medicaid. none. there are no two programs that have the potential to turn red state governors against you if they get screwed up. there are no agencies that have the ability to turn old voters against you if they get screwed up. there are no agencies that have the potential to create a homelessness crisis anywhere in the country if they get screwed up. there are no agencies that a president's fate in their hands politically like these two if they get screwed up. and they are now in the hands of rfk jr. and dr. oz.

>> yeah, could we start with that sentence? as soon as john said it, you know, if we would have said a couple months that the healthcare system in america -- i mean these two agencies would be run by rfk jr. and dr. oz and the tulsi gabbard at the top of the intelligence community and matt gaetz attorney general, people would have said, you guys are suffering from trump derangement syndrome. stop making it up. competence is, obviously, not a priority in these choices. john is right. it is remarkable to the degree this administration has in fact defined deviancy down and absurdity down because you put it all in context and you have people who are utterly unsuited for the jobs they are being given and have a long history of comments and behavior that ought to be utterly disqualifying.

during the covid pandemic, dr. oz was a peddler of pseudoscience and disinformation. now he is going to be running medicare and medicaid. we don't even need to get into the things that robert f. kennedy jr. has done. so this administration is being staffed with reality tv stars and what the consequences are we don't know. i think that one thing i would want to flag is we shouldn't take the focus off the people at the, you know, second and third tiers who will be doing the work these figure heads are supposed to be doing because many of them will have agenda. frankly, i am not sure that the majority of americans even guess that before the election, including the privatization of medicare, the dismantling of many of the medical safety nets that we have in this country. so, again, we're seeing more of the same that we have seen the last week and a half.

>> charlie, something interesting, if you talk to a trump voter, they talk about trump like he is an ala carte menu. i didn't want the retribution piece. i wanted the economy. i don't like matt gaetz. i didn't want him or, you know, i wasn't an rfk person. and wasn't he going to talk to kamala harris if she picked -- the point is, you get all of it. the point about trump is that it's a package deal and you get trump and you get matt gaetz and you get j.d. vance and you get project 2025 and rfk jr. the thing that's interesting though about that, and every reporter out talking to trump voters say the same thing, therein lies the political tension. i think a lot of people, where is the tension going to be? the tension is going to be within his own base about things they don't think they signed up for. they didn't sign up, i don't think they think, for medicare to be messed with. i mean, what are the sort of liabilities with some of these selections?

>> well, they are huge. and donald trump actually does understand this, or did at one time. and one of his major political initiatives in 2016 was when he separated himself from other republicans. he said, i will not mess with social security and med carol. remember when he did is that? and that was crucial to putting together the coalition that he put together. we are old enough to remember the tea party. one of the great paradoxes of the tea party movement people wanted to dismantle the government, slow down the growth of government, but they supported social security and medicare. so there is a real risk there. as usual with donald trump, i think that you should not assume he thought through all of the consequences of messing with medicare. > we were talking about the pick to the fcc, the guy that wrote the chapter about social media. you have now got another pick at

hhs. someone who is known, i believe faced some accountability for some of the unfounded things that he promoted in his past as a television host. what is your sense on sort of the honeymoon timeline? i mean, trump is clearly very, very high and elated on his victory. these are the picks of someone who believes he has a mandate -- brit hume at fox news says there is no mandate and it likes the count will be under 50% of americans who voted for him. what is your sense of where that orbit is sort of flying these days? >> you know, it's so hard to say, but what i will say, and it's the thing we know about donald trump and saw in the election cycle is when things became unpopular, his positions became unpopular, he just lied about them and changed them,

flip-flopped, and said things that are actually inconsistent with many of the things that are said inside project 2025 and mapping to his own nominees. so what it tells us, he is whetted to the positions that he originally took. i mean, i think we are looking at nominees that are not just people he thinks will be very loyal to his agenda in terms of packing government with folks who will do his bidding, for getting civil service, trying to make sure he has his own version of a deep state. that's all you are doing when you say you are going to pack the government with people who agree with you idealogically, when we have a nonpartisan civil service. he is picking, if you notice, the agencies that he most cares about controlling with people he feels extremely loyal to him and to his very dangerous ideas for so many of the people who actually voted for him because if you start to think about

medicaid and medicare, that impacts everyone. and in states where there are real people struggling, medicaid is the way, and in many instances the expansion of medicaid and the affordable care act is the way that people are getting that care. and one of the things we know in project 2025 is that it sets its sights on undermining the program. and it also sets its sights on trying to divide us around whether we should be taking care of any kind of challenges we have in getting it that carol. and that is going to come home to roost and it will be interesting to see if donald trump does one of two things. reverses himself, or uses the machinery he has at his disposal, including elon musk's x, to drive disinformation and division as we were talking about earlier, which has also been part of his m.o. >> these are sort of the kinds

of agencies where all of the disinformation could be staring you in the face. if you are not getting what you need for a loved one in terms of health care, where the rubber meets the road. there is so much more. speaking of agencies trump cares about most, drip, drip, drip. the details keep coming. ones that have been kept under wraps by the house ethics committee about matt gaetz, they continue to reveal themselves as donald trump personally takes this on and lobbies senate republicans to ignore all of it and confirm his selection to lead the department of justice. we will bring you the latest on that story next.

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i mean, the fact of the matter, whether we get the ethics report or not, the facts are going to come out one way or the other. and i would think it would be in everybody's best interesting, including the president's, not to be surprised by some information that might come out during the confirmation in the background check. >> that was republican senator john cornyn urging the house ethics committee to rip the band-aid off and release the report on its investigation into former congressman and trump's pick for attorney general matt gaetz before it leaks out. a eerily prescient warning, a hacker gained access to witness testimony in the committee's investigation, writing this, quote, that file included the

testimony of the woman who alleges she had sex with gaetz when she was 17 years old in 2017 as well as the testimony of a second woman who said she witnessed the encounter and the information is unredacted according to a source. the file has not yet been made public. a lawyer for two of the witnesses says one of his clients testified that matt gaetz was not aware that the girl was 17 when he had sex with her, and that when gaetz found out he didn't have sex with her again until she was 18 years old. despite the increasingly damaging and disturbing allegations coming to light about matt gaetz, donald trump and the trump transition is standing by their man and now making a public full-court press to get him confirmed. nbc news reports that trump has personally been calling senators pushing them to confirm matt gaetz as attorney general. j.d. vance is in on it as well, heading to the hill tomorrow to push for matt gaetz and other trump cabinet picks.

for his part, trump's buddy, elon musk, who himself is the subject of sexual misconduct allegations, posted on social media this. quote, gaetz will be our hammer of justice. we are pea back with john heilemann, charlie sykes and maya a wiley. john, let me play hallie jackson's attorney with an attorney for two of the witnesses. >> what did she see? >> she was walking outside to the pool and she eastbound obamaed to her right her friend, 17 at the time, having sex with representative gaetz t they were leaned up to what she described to as a game table of some type. >> was your client paid for sex by matt gaetz? is that what she testified to? >> how the direct directed the questioning, they put up a number of venmo and paypal payments by representative gaetz and asked my clients what were each one of these payments made

for? and my clients repeatedly testified, well, that was for sex. that was for sex. they provided -- that's what they have done. they don't have an agenda. my clients are not politically motivated. they haven't voted in the last two elections. they don't have a dog in the fight. >> john heilemann? >> um, i hate those open-ended questions. that's not really a question. >> i have a question. i have a question. i censored myself. i'll just say it. so, i mean, they don't have -- >> don't sense you're yourself. >> doesn't trump have a dog -- trump did better among woman than anyone thought. doesn't he have a dog in the fight? he has picked as the vice president a man who thinks women who stay in marriages even when they are violent. trump is himself an adjudicated

sexual abuser. mr. hegseth was involved in an altercation for which the month ray police department lease add report saying it had been called and the woman had a bruise on her leg. that woman took a rape kit test and semen was found and we are having these conversations because these are the men trump is attract today. this is the wave of of, i guess, anti-me too toxic masculinity joe rogan has ushered into america. we are putting into context that matt gaetz after learning that a woman for which he was investigated for alleged child sex trafficking stopped having sex with her when he learned she was 17 and waited to start having sex with her again until after her 18th birthday. i don't want to talk about these stuff, but these are the men that donald trump selected and it's an unbelievable departure from the best people to the alleged sex trafficker. >> right.

so, totally agree with all of that as a description of the situation we find ourselves in. there are a lot of things that one, nicolle, you ranged across the waterfront there in terms of observations. and some of those observations are sews logical. some are cultural. some are about things -- they lead down paths towards the moment we are living in and towards these broader trends. but i guess when i hear this -- what i hear as if you go through that litany is that the guy who was caught on tape talking about how when you are a star you can do anything, grab them by the pussy, that guy who became president after that, that guy who was, as you said, is now an adjudicated -- adjudicated as liable for sexual assault. that guy in the intervening

period ran again for president and got more votes than he got in 2016 and got a larger percentage of the country, won the popular vote. improved his political standing in 92 out of 100 american counties. that guy i think has reached the conclusion that on the politics of it that he is not going to be damaged by appointing to significant and serious positions in the government other guys like him. and honestly, like, from the narrow standpoint of why is this happening, none of us want to be talking about this, is matt gaetz is he gross, is he disgusting? does the stuff that we heard about what he bragged about to his colleagues on the house floor and other members, is that appalling and repulsive? yes, for sure. we knew that long before he was put forward for the justice department. this one of those foish rotting from the head down situations where if you are asking why are we living through it now, donald

trump thinks he pays no political price. if he can do the things he has done, including these last-minute revelations during the campus about his relationship with jeffrey epstein, he has gotten through -- none of these things prevent him from his goal, to win the presidency once and now twice and be in a stronger position politically. if you are asking me is it disgusting, does it say things about where we are as a society now, about misogyny and the per vafsness in our culture? yes. does it surprise me that donald trump has made the calculation given his history and what he has been rewarded for he can get away with putting these people forward? i think that's to be expected from a candidate who has the incentive system built in, been rewarded the way he is rewarded given his own history makes perfect sense to me he thinks, why not nominate a matt gaetz, why not nominate a pete hegseth, why not nominate maybe more

coming down the pike, i think trump thinks he will get away with it and he might. >> i don't disagree with any of that. i guess, charlie, the question about is about the flatlining of the soul of the republican senators. and i have covered the flatlining of any morals or ethics since the "access hollywood" tape that won't be quoted twice. but i think it's remarkable story about them, that john thune doesn't have a bottom, that john cornyn doesn't have a bottom, that mitch mcconnell doesn't have any power, and i guess when mitch mcconnell votes for trump after trump smears his own wife with a racial slur, you don't expect him to stand up for the women of america and say, maybe someone investigated for child sex trafficking isn't the best person to oversee the laws of the land to protect all american women and girls from child sex trafficking. maybe that makes perfect sense. but i think it's a legitimate question to ask if john cornyn and john thune and mitch

mcconnell have a bottom. >> well, we are going to find that out. we will find throughout in the next couple of months. i think this is an interesting aspect of this story. the degree to which donald trump is humiliating the republican senate. he is humiliating them by sending grossly absurd appointments and saying i am going to ram this down your throat and you have to approve them. and then at the same time, even before he has taken office, threatening to strip the senate of its constitutional responsibility of advice and consent. there is a certain of -- there is a huge amount of contempt here. and you are going to see this -- you know, another in a series of tests. but donald trump is basically saying that his presidency involves break the will of the senate. having the senate turn itself into a series of potted plants. and so we are going to find out. you know, john was talking about

the political reality. america elects an adjudicated rapist, what should we be surprised of? there is a moral dimension, you are talking about horrific behavior. behavior that many people who voted for donald trump would never top rate in their community in their family, in any context whatsoever. and yet donald trump is, you know, one appointment after another, it's almost as if this is now a requirement on your resume you have to have a sexual abuse or allegation against you. and i do think that there is a political kai dimension but a moral dimension, and whatever our predictions are we should fully expect republican senators to do the right thing. we should expect them and we just shouldn't just throw up our hands and figure that they are going to do the same thing all over again, although they probably will. >> stay with us. we will have the last word on this on the other side of a break. don't go anywhere. eak. don't go anywhere.

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to get prebiotic, plant-based fiber. with the same amount of fiber as 2 cups of broccoli. metamucil gummies the easy way to get your daily fiber. join the millions who saved on their move with pods. book now and save up to 25% off your upcoming move. with no deposit now and no surprise costs later. don't put off till tomorrow when you can save today! book now at pods.com maya, i was looking at the final polls. it turns out this was as david predicted a one to two point race. there was a theory that women would reject donald trump in numbers to fuel kamala harris' victory across the swing states. that didn't happen. largely because of white women. why do you think that was?

>> well, i want to reframe it just one little bit. we have long had a problem in this country of whether people vote their interests or vote their race. and identity politics is not the issue unless we're talking about whether people are voting for themselves or voting for their race. and that's what happened in some of these instances of voters. but the other thing we have to remember is we have a lot more work we could have done and need to do and invest in communities in all over this country so that people actually show up to vote because we didn't see the level of turnout we could have and should have that would have been women and people of color and people all over this country that would have come out for a better set of principles and values because at the end of the day what we know is that we share and agree more on policy than we realize unless the person at the top of the ticket doesn't look the same.

and that we have to solve. and i just want to say this one last thing. you know, we don't take laying down what any republican senators want to do to roll over to hold on to political power. the issue with the policies we agree on, we should all be safe, we are not going to allow anybody to tell us 1% of the u.s. population transgender people are somehow our biggest danger when it comes to sexual violence. >> yeah. such an important point. to be continued. john heilemann, thank you for keeping it real. charlie, maya, thank you very much for having this conversation with us. we need to sneak in one more break. we'll be right back. ight back.

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show them they're not alone. please call or go online to givetosave.org to help save lives. today prosecutors in donald trump's hush money case told judge juan merchan trump's sentencing should be postponed, added they will continue to fight trump's efforts to dismiss the case. manhattan district attorney alvin bragg's office suggesting they could freeze the case until he is out of office. judge merchan was schedule today sentence donald trump later this month on 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. it that outcome was thrown into tout when prosecutors asked the judge to stay the proceedings while they consider the impact of trump's election victory on the case. we'll stay on top of that. coming up for us, one of donald trump's cabinet picks

likely had champagne corks popping in moscow when she was announced. that is of course tulsi gabbard for dni. we will talk about why after a quick break. and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote.

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>> well, i just think we have to do a really thorough job of vetting tulsi gabbard and asking some very difficult questions. obviously, we have all watched her toe the line of some brutal regimes, defending moscow's invasion of ukraine, engaging in secret diplomacy with bashar al-assad in the middle of his murderous rampage inside syria . i just think we have to ask some real questions about tulsi gabbard's positions.>> hi again everybody, 5:00 in new york, at a time when global tensions are high, donald trump's decision

to tap tulsi gabbard as his incoming director of national intelligence is raising alarms. new reporting uncovers how she has become a favorite among the state media, one of america's adversaries, russia, that is according to the new york times, which reports, in russia, the reaction to her potential appointed has been gleeful, even if putin's government remains weary of american policies even under a second term administration. the cia and the fbi are trembling, a russian newspaper wrote on friday in a glowing profile of tulsi gabbard, noted positively, that ukrainians consider an agent of the russian state, a state television channel called her a russian comrade in the emerging cabinet. the times goes on to report, among members from both parties for support of russia's war in ukraine, and her repetition of

kremlin disinformation have raised doubts about whether she should be given oversight of the intelligence agencies. including the responsibility of preparing the highly classified daily intelligence briefings for the returning president. which, we have just learned trump is now receding as the president-elect after having chosen not to receive them while he was a candidate. trump receding intelligence briefings is remarkable, for the fact that just last year he was criminally charged for mishandling national defense information and classified information. it was already established as disregard for the safety of our nation's secret, especially with those that have access to top intelligence all the more serious. >> i'm a former cia officer, i worked undercover for my time at the agency as a case officer, the reason this nomination is so dangerous is because any damage she would

do, any information she would provide the president, she tweets russian propaganda. she trafficked conspiracy theories, why not push that into the greater ecosystem of intelligence and none of that would ever be seen by the public, there's no opportunity to push back, no understanding, it's not about party or the president-elect, it is about our national security. >> that is where we start, we have some of our favorite experts and friends, john brennan is here, also former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi, msnbc national security analyst, frank is back and the president of media matters, angelo. let me just bring into the conversation before we start, some new reporting in the washington post about the transition which is what is happening right now, the washington post reports, trump has yet to collaborate with the

general services administration which is tasked with the complex work of handing over control of hundreds of agencies because he has not turned in required pledges to follow ethics rules. his transition teams have yet to set foot inside a single federal office, and trump has cut out the state department, its secure lines and its official interpreters. so, trump is right now a black box to the intelligence agencies he is about to oversee?>> well, i think donald trump is a well-known commodity in terms of what he did during his first term and also how he recklessly handled classified information which is one of the reasons why there is such concern within the intelligence communities but let's face it, donald trump is not going to follow any rules but his own, that's why there have been no individuals that have been scanned for background checks,

these ethic pledges have not been signed, gsa has not been able to engage with them to ensure this transition is smooth it seems. but, also with his appointees, i think he is showing that he is going to do whatever he wants and he basically is daring republicans in the senate to defy him. so, given that the director of national intelligence is by law the principal intelligence adviser, the individual who oversees the production of the daily brief which contains the secrets and sensitive classified information, this is a tremendous responsibility that is now entrusted at least in nomination of tulsi gabbard and it is clear based on what senator murphy said, she has done things and said things over the years that really caused great concern about where her some of these and sentiments by. also, she has no experience of head ground in the intelligence profession, yes she served in the u.s. military for years,

but she has none of the experience and credentials that are necessary to lead 18 intelligence agencies departments when we are facing so many challenges around the globe, so therefore donald trump is going to ramrod these sessions through and it's really going to be up to the republicans in the senate to be able to stop them. >> can you just say a little bit about what happens on day one for the workforce of the cia?>> well, on noon january 20th, when donald trump was inaugurated, they are going to be following the direction of whoever is in charge of the agency, so john radcliffe has been nominated but i don't know if he's going to be confirmed soon after that. but, donald trump has the ability to appoint an acting

director, the deputy director of the cia is not a senate confirmed position, so that acting director can actually carry out all of those duties and response abilities, so that person can send some shocking directions to the cia officers who again, put their lives on the line around the globe 24/7, so i think there's great worry and concern about what this means given that donald trump has said he is basically going to blow up the administrative state and do some burning and these are the institutions that we rely on so heavily for national security. and what i don't want my former colleagues to do is leave the agency because we need them to stay strong and to carry out the responsibilities with the solace they have over the course of the cia's history.>> i wanted to read a little bit more of nbc's reporting on how this would work, tulsi gabbard

would pose a potentially unprecedented dilemma for u.s. intelligence agencies, a top official who may not share an underlying premise about which countries are america's major enemies, the job is to define the world as it is, as opposed to advocating for a world as you wanted to be. that is a former intelligence official, former u.s. intelligence officials and lawmakers also worry that tulsi gabbard and the new trump administration might decide to scale back intelligence sharing with ukraine. possibly in an attempt to force kyiv to agree to a peace deal. your thoughts? >> indeed, the job of the dni is to coordinate the intelligence community, everybody growing in the direction of finding the facts that best support u.s. interests, so if the person in charge of that is bias and wants everybody rolling over here away from fact, she has the ability to do that.

she sets the shopping list so to speak for collection across the u.s. intelligence committee and the job is also to decide what goes in the daily brief to the president and if the president doesn't want to hear anything about russia, then guess what, she's going to say i don't want that in the briefing. that is bad news for him. that is not what u.s. intelligence collection is supposed to be. and i know a lot of people are talking about the threat and risk she poses because of her positions and all of that, but it's even worse. we can't stand here and say with any certainty that she is a russian asset or she poses a threat or risk because we are not being allowed to view or engage in the standard fbi background investigation that is supposed to happen with this level of nominee, so that means the senate is flying blind and may even lose their advice and consent powers which are in the constitution if trump goes the

route of recess appointments, that means the senate judiciary committee is not getting what they are supposed to have and it means that the american public doesn't know who is taking one of the most important positions in the intelligence community. no background investigation, what does that mean? is trump afraid that gsa officers would be bugged, is that where we are right now or he doesn't want to have to sign that ethics agreement? we don't even know who these people are because we are deprived of the background investigations and who gives these people clearance by the way, dni has every clearance known to man, who says you get the clearance despite the lack of any background investigation? i don't know.>> i guess, frank, someone who is criminally charged in the case that former attorney general, bill barr basically described as open and shut from his handling classified documents including national defense administration

is doing exactly what you would expect someone criminally charged with mishandling classified information in a case so open and shut that bill barr thought he was toast, right? >> yes, there's a total disdain for the rules here and look, i love shaking things up myself, your autocracy can be ugly sometimes, sure, but we are not talking about that, we are talking about national security threats, about a person who gave highly classified information to russian officials, that is what we as a people appear to have elected.>> angelo, there's something possible to articulate about the mou that commences a landing team of the national security agencies and green lights this process we are talking about, but the reason it is hard to bring that to life is because it has never been an issue, even in 2000 and there was a recount, even in

2020 when trump refused to concede the election, there was a transition, there were teams named, there were government officials to be selected, so the fbi could back them and you would take an oath and swear that your allegiance was to the united states. that is the process that has a been aborted in the trump position and with your expertise, and what the plan was all alone, just share your thoughts and reflections on where we are.>> yeah, the thing that is worth keeping in mind, we are all pointing out that they are accurate, and part of it is that they spent the last four years really entrenching this idea that all of the united states government is the enemy, enemy number one, so every time you point out accurately that they want to undermine it is going to make us less safe, they say yes, that is exactly right because that is the enemy number one

and where that starts from, what that originates, that benefits, that has been discussed and we don't even know necessarily to an extent tulsi gabbard's relationship with foreign entities is because it is not being investigated, the normal channels of a transition are not even being followed which is a reflection of the fact that it is so deeply internalized that all of these institutions are the enemy and they need to go away or d dismantled or destroyed. i think there's something unsettling that is hard to articulate, the best way i can illustrate it, yes there is something unsettling and some ways to understand that, where the news from tulsi gabbard was broken in the first place, it was broken by alex jones on infowars, that's where that news came up first and that is significant, it wasn't by accident, it was by design,

because that is a reflection of where the power is being organized, and tulsi gabbard is an example of somebody that came in as a democrat and she validated as a democrat all of the right-wing narrative they were telling about these government institutions and in a way, even a democrat believes all the things that we are saying about the deep state, about the nefarious forces so not only was she a part of that validation process and also an illustration of what that transition is and how you live and survive and thrive in the right-wing fever swamps. when you pull it all together, she not only helped validate and cultivate that narrative and is clearly a responsive to that audience and landscape but now she's going to be in a position where when trump was previously getting from right- wing media and we saw that play out in his first term, is going to be echoed in one of the

internal intelligence he receives because the underlying institutions are in fact going to be actively and intentionally dismantled or disrupted and that is the reality we are heading into.>> let me illustrate that, this is tulsi gabbard describing the court approved search of mar-a- lago to retrieve classified national defense information on fox news. >> the fbi's raid on mar-a-lago change the country we grew up in, we grew up believing that our government will apply the law equally to all americans whether you are republican or democrat, we are seeing more and more that that country no longer exist. law enforcement, the highest levels of government whether it is the doj, department of homeland security, fbi and the irs has been whip and iced -- weaponized.>> all the people known to be targeted by those

injuries -- agencies were the trump adversaries, which is a complete inverse of what comes out of her mouth, again, whether it is something with russia or deeper is an unknown but the tactics are straight out of russian disinformation playbook.>> they are, and the thing that i always jump to, not only was she a fixture on fox news but she guest hosted tucker carlson who did increasingly more sympathetic russian content, he did that whole big thing in the supermarket laughing and talking about how great the country has and how what we are being fed is a lie, and that to me is the tie-in, we already know what she's going to do in this role because she has been doing it in the right-wing media for the past few years which is taking these attacks on american institutions and american credibility and i agree with what frank was saying, we should defend reflexively institutions that

need to be adapted, optimized, that should always be something we aspire to do but, that is what it sounds like they are talking about but they are talking about something deeper. they have identified an enemy and that is why they are not participating in this process, this transition, they don't even want to undermine their own argument and their own narrative, so every action that goes by, they further reinforce the very story they've been telling as they get one step closer to those official positions.>> when we come back, standing up to vladimir putin becomes all the more critical, but moscow's latest announcement lowering the threshold for russians use of nuclear weapons means for the now 1000 daylong war in ukraine, that is next. plus, vermont, donald trump distanced himself from the highly unpopular project 2025, but now, he is reportedly

vetting its chief architect for a high-level administration job. and there's a lot of talk about the size of his victory, republicans have been saying he has a mandate, but the truth in the data tell a very different story. we will go inside some new numbers later, we will continue after a quick break, don't go anywhere. go anywhere millions of children are fighting to survive

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let me set the record straight. are people born wicked? or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? oh! -ah! [ laughter ] no need to respond. that was rhetorical. hm, hmm. >> some alarming news to tell you about, of russia's unprovoked illegal invasion of ukraine that proves the stakes have never been higher when it comes to supporting our

democratic ally, over vladimir putin's russia, putin just lowered his own threshold for using nuclear weapons. now saying russia can conduct a nuclear strike is attacked by not only a nuclear power such as the united states but also a nation that is backed by a nuclear power such as ukraine. it was a long planned move that putin first announced back in september after warning that he would do so for years. the kremlin says the use of nuclear weapons still would be a last resort measure but it is the timing that makes it appear to be a clear signal to the west from vladimir putin. u.s. officials telling nbc news that ukraine fired into russia overnight, using u.s.-made missiles. the time after joe biden gave the ukraine military the go- ahead over the weekend, the

doctrines publication on tuesday appear to be the latest suggestion from the kremlin that russia could use nuclear weapons to respond to attacks by ukraine carried out by american support. and the response could be directed against american facilities as well as ukraine itself. we are back with director john brennan. now what? >> well, i know that putin is quite angry at president biden's authorization for the ukrainians to use these long- range missiles in russian territory but i'm certain ukrainians are going to use it against military targets, and on the nuclear front, i think it is not surprising however, there's 62 days before putin's dream team arrives in washington and i don't think he would opt to do anything on the nuclear front which really could be a setback to the prospects that donald trump is going to allow putin to have his way with ukraine. because it is quite clear that as you pointed out earlier,

jump has a lot of authority, he can cease intelligence sharing with ukrainians, he can tell other agencies and military to stop whatever corporation -- cooperation is ongoing. i don't think putin would stop that by doing something as radical as using a nuclear weapon on the technical front. i think we are going to see increased russian attacks against ukrainian cities and targets, but i don't think he's going to opt for that, i wouldn't be surprised if there's going to be messages back and forth from the trump campaign to putin to reassure putin that the calvary is coming to help russia salvage something out of this ukrainian fiasco. >> director brennan, is it possible that putin is putting trump in a box, saying the only way to de-escalate from this nuclear threat is to do exactly

what i want in ukraine? >> well, i think he's getting trump the opportunity to claim, look at the deal i'm going to strike with vladimir putin, by negotiating with them and negotiating may be away some of the territory, he has prevented some type of nuclear detonation , so it may be seen as putting trump in a box but it is also getting trump the opportunity to demonstrate that he in fact can dissuade moscow from engaging in this type of nuclear attack. so again, i think putin and trump know each other well and want to work with each other, so again, i just think in 62 days, we are going to see the benefits that trump has really accrued because of the relationship that he has with vladimir putin.>> the efforts to inform and deepen donald trump, sort of teach why nato exists and why we are a part of

it and why russia is an enemy, the effort to try to infuse into donald trump an american spirit when it comes to foreign policy was a debacle and it culminates in john kelly doing a recorded interview in the days before the election and describing donald trump in the harshest terms that have ever been applied to him by any democrat or republican in the nine years he has been at the center of american politics. do you view the affinity for russia as part of that or do you think there's something with jd vance and tucker carlson and tulsi gabbard, do you think there's something else, what is your theory of the case of trump 2.0 via america's adversaries? >> i do think there's something more than just everybody in trump circle magically

deciding, hey, we love authoritarians and dictators, let's model ourselves after vladimir putin. no, i think there has been a massive campaign by the intelligence services in russia and led by putin to convince the trump circle that it's in their best interest to play with team russia. there's evidence of that. we are now deprived of fbi counterintelligence results as a result of the mueller investigation, we don't even know if that was fully explored, but i don't think this is all coincidence, and i think to go back to the last segment, this is precisely why we need a dni who is not going to cover up russian intelligence collection, we need to know if putin is saying

i'm going to start up repositioning some tactical nukes, i'm going to start pointing in this direction. if the decision is made, i don't want to hear it, putin got free license, we are blind. we are operating in the blind. and i don't like where this is going, i think we are in the two minute warning, meaning we have to get some things done fast and that is behind what biden has authorized, the movement of north korean troops into this picture has hastened that, we cannot continue to allow that to happen but it is a two minute warning. >> the person who offered the most scathing report and indictment of donald trump's affinity for ties to and questions about trump and russia is his incoming secretary of state, marco rubio , we need to go over for the senate intelligence committee. do you think they know that, do you think they don't care and

the chaos is the point in this mishmash is mixed messaging? >> i think they don't care, and i think ultimately, rubio is one small piece of it but certainly not reflective of the larger administration or their posture and ultimately what has been signaled both during the campaign and as well as by who he is putting into these places from pete hegseth down, the affinity for russia is not just sort of the geopolitical worldview or that they have been fed right from the ground up because they are consumers of the right-wing media, what russia has been doing with our information landscape for quite a while, but that we should also not lose sight of the fact that there's an affinity there, that russia is at no nationalist state and that is one of the biggest appeals, this idea that he was

exemplifying on fox, but more importantly look how well their society is because they embraced ethnic nationalism and when you put that in the context of other attacks on the ei or other issues, it does boil down to this core idea that there is something there in russia that is if not aspirational for them, at least something that we should take and incorporate into our society. marco rubio is not going to have a lot of influence or power in the broader administration and i feel like everybody knows that.>> frank figliuzzi, thank you for starting us off today, angelo will stick around a little bit longer for us. trump try to run from the deeply unpopular extreme far right blueprint, known as project 2025, but now of course completely different story, as he considers project 2025's

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to do.>> he had nothing to do with project 2025, had no idea what was in it, never seen these people before, it was of course never the whole truth, no matter how many times he repeated it during the campaign because it became so unpopular, as if we needed more proof, trump is welcoming one of the chief architects of project 2025's 900 page radical, deeply polarizing and unpopular agenda, to potentially play a starring high-profile role in his new administration. abc news is reporting this, russ vought, who authored a chapter on executive office of the president for project 2025's mandate for leadership, it has been vetted by trump's transition team, sources say.

they added this, he not only authored the chapter but he was also deeply involved in drafting the playbook for the first 180 days of the new trump administration. he is now one of several project 2025 alums being considered for crucial high- profile roles in the trump cabinet. joining our conversation is the former congressman from florida, david jolly and angelo carusone is still with us. your thoughts? >> even if you take the republican revolution and their contract, a lot of this would be policy debate about the role of government in the role of federal agencies and what we spend money on, but in a trump era of politics, it is laced with this idea of a powerful unitary executive where the authors, donald trump might say he doesn't know anything about it but he's hiring all the people who wrote it, their view of government, the people

surrounding him, personnel is policy, donald trump is surrounding himself with people who have very aggressive constitutional ideas as well a very aggressive views of the role of government, he would be happy to pull the rug out from most government services if they could get that through congress but even what they can't get through congress is where a lot of the people who created project 2025 that are clearly in his inner circle, that the idea of a powerful unitary executive, or the idea that the president himself is now vested with all of these powers is something that needs to be enacted with republicans, it was about resisting national powers to the presidency, keeping within congress. that was true to the vision, but under project 2025 and donald trump's attention through lessening control through his own resolute desk,

even among the m initiated agencies that traditionally had power, that is where this begins to test some real constitutional limits and the one about project 2025, these are not dumb people, they are ready to test the constitutional limits and they believe they have a court system that will probably grant them their blessings.>> angelo, the only possible slowing mechanism is it's deeply unpopular -- i want to show you, fox news, breaking the news, that donald trump does not have a mandate. we are going to pull that up. mandates, real mandates are rare and landslides are even rare, the president would be wise to ignore the talk from his supporters about what an enormous mandate he has and what a great landslide he won because thinking that can lead to trouble.

thinking about a mandate and proceeding with the deeply unpopular project 2025 feels like a recipe for disaster.>> i would like to think so. what i would note at the top, i think that is a reality we have to keep reminding over and over again, part of the reason why we even have to point out that the slimness of the outcome is not necessarily a mandate, is because for the past few weeks, what has been happening more broadly over and over again is reverberating this idea that it was this massive mandate, that if the victory was so significant in total that it was a reflection of the popular will of the people as a result of that, he has to go full steam ahead with all of these promises and directives, we are dealing with the landscape and narrative that is deeply setting in, so now we are working uphill. but as you know, it is deeply unpopular, it always was and there's a lot of assumptions that have been played out that

he's not going to do many of the things he said he was going to do which is how some people made those last-minute decisions because they thought he is authentic, he sent them -- he said those things. but i will note, all the others have all sorts of deficiencies and anxieties, the thing with russ vought that scares me, he has a plan, he didn't just help drive the document that everybody knows about, he has that 180 day agenda, he was the author of the private document. one of the things that it includes at least 350 specific documents, draft memos, individual instruction, executive orders, agency notes, all the legal work that has to be done for a series of directives and what he has been crystal clear about from the beginning is that when they come in, they are going to rapidly engage in a mass deportation effort and part of

that is to fulfill that promise and elicit a backlash where they can smash-and-grab and shop people into submission and he has been saying that one of the goals in these initial six months is to and multiculturalism in america, the era has to end as well as the independent agencies., that is where it gets scary, we are not just going to rely on the boring effect of not having the popular mandate because they know it is not popular and are baking that into their plans and we have the advantage that knowing this is about to happen, that is where we have to start putting more antibodies into the system.>> i want to press you on what that means for us, for the people holding up a mirror to what is happening in the country. but we have to do a quick break first, we will be right back. rik so those who receive can find the joy of giving back. i'm amy grant, and i want to talk to you from my heart about the heart.

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do as president, he just wants to succeed or pretend and be worshiped, but he also listens to the last person that has his ear and if they say this is the direction we should go, he will probably go in that direction and you pointed out earlier, much of project 2025's agenda is deeply unpopular, that is why there is a confrontation that russ vought is suggesting we have to have. let's welcome that confrontation because angelo is exactly right, this is not a mandate, this is roughly 48% of the country that fought for the values that are different from donald trump, this is not a time to all of a sudden resign and give equity to donald trump and recognize that he has some good ideas as well. trump is still a threat to the country and just because his resistance was ineffective in 2024, that doesn't mean the battle is lost, the people who push back on donald trump were successful in 18 and 20 and 22

but understandably not successful in 2024, this is not a time to give up, this is a time to persist every day, fighting for the values that are right for the future of the country. donald trump and others will have their hands at the levers for the next four years but if there is no pushback whatsoever, they will be able to accomplished -- accomplish everything. but those who remain vocal and fight for the future of the country, their implementation of their agenda gets much harder, particularly those pieces that have to go through the house and go through the senate whether they may or may not have the votes to do so, this is not a time to give up, this is not the time to give equity to donald trump, this is a time to fight like it is 2016 all over again, because in short four years, the outcome looks very favorable for democrats. >> let me show you the results, now that most of the counting is done, donald trump just below 50%, david jolly, 49.9%

and kamala harris at 48.2%. obviously trump is still the winner of the popular vote and in the electoral, not landside but swept the battleground states. this morning, it was intriguing to me in this regard, winners also misread their mandates, in 04 when george w. bush won there was a sense he had a mandate for comprehensive immigration reform and privatization of social security, there was no reform and social security has never been privatized. it happens as well in the news, to david jolly's point, that everything was so wildly unpopular, you scrap everything. this is still a country almost completely cleaved into two, to your great reporting, consuming

totally different information, two totally different sets of facts, two totally different sets of reality, that impacted rating from climate change to the weather, the military, just about everything in american life. what are your thoughts heading into the last stretch here before trump grabs the levers of power in terms of how fact- based interests are organized and promoted? >> the dynamics you just played out, they recognize what we were talking about before, he likens this period to 1860, the civil war, when he talks about the policies that he was putting together, he mentions it internally when he talks about it, he was drafting them in mind with a country that is reflective of 1860, he is aware of the dynamics, and on the

public side they might talk about mandate and massive landside and that narrative on a house of cards but internally when they are thinking about how they execute and drive the agenda, they are seeing the landscape clearly, it is a fairly balanced country and a lot of things they are going to be pushing through are not going to be popular and that's where i think about this moment which is we know what is in front of us and what is about to happen, you have to name it clearly to anticipate it, not to be hysterical, not to make people feel so powerless or scared that they disengage and retreat, because that is not going to serve anybody well. what this is a time for is clarity of purpose, and being clear about what they are saying because a lot of what they are going to do is going to hurt people or the people are not going to really like it and the task for the media and the public and all individuals in this moment is to be able to identify when it starts to happen, why it is happening, who it is affecting and where

those decisions came from, that is going to be the responsibility as the last election illustrated, it goes beyond the main news media but it is going to be an individual effort, not to shame individuals but to help people understand why the things that are happening in this moment and why they are driven and that is going to be the process that we go through step-by- step. the thing that is very important and most significant is not stepping on any bear traps, they are designing an agenda that is anticipating of certain degree of backlash they can implement the insurrection act that is going to help create and fuel impotency fast and hard and for us, that is my horizon point, clarity and purpose and also making sure anything i do in my personal life and also in my public work is not feeling that because that is what they are counting on in order to take advantage of the dynamics. >> i think you just articulated our mission for our next segment on these topics, sort

of anticipating just based on what they've said out loud and what they have put in writing. i will put you both on notice, we need to pick this up another day, david jolly and angelo carusone, to be continued, another break for us . we will be right back. right back. [silence] the freestyle libre 3 plus sensor tracks your glucose in real time so everyone else doesn't have to, and over time it can help lower your a1c confident choices for more control of your life. this is progress. learn more and try for free at freestylelibre.us ♪♪ leo! he's there when we wake up, he's there when we leave, he's there whenever we come back home from school, he's just there always. mash it up doofus. ever since we introduced him to the farmer's dog, his quality of life has been forever changed. he prefers real, human-grade food. it's... ...like real food!

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public education, critics argue the curriculum lessons related to christianity more than any other religion, undermined church and state separation and grant the state far-reaching control over how children learn about religion. the texas tribune points this out, the choice to adopt the materials will remain the districts, but the state will offer an incentive of $60 per student to districts that choose to adopt the lessons which could appeal to some schools struggle financially after several years without a significant raise in state funding. an official vote on the curriculum is expected friday, we will stay on top of that, another break for us, we will be right back. right back. the to ge guyour daily f. black friday football on prime is back. touchdown! the raiders.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> our top story is this new women's rights ruling out of