only in theaters november 22nd. i am actually working on a hip-hop album, one about the life of someone i think embodies hip-hop, treasury secretary alexander hamilton. you laugh, but it's true. ♪ yeah, i'm the damn genius that shot him ♪ [ audience reacts ] >> if it is good enough for obama, is it good enough for you? that was a young lin-manuel miranda before "hamilton" became the hit show. tomorrow, maranda makes his

"beat" debut. i am a longtime fan, we finally got him on the beat. we could use that right now. stay tuned for tomorrow. "the reidout" starts with jason johnson, next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> i think mark millie has to be recalled to active duty on the afternoon of the 20th, and i think a military tribunal, a court-martial, has to be called, and paneled a court- martial and mark millie has to be brought up on charges and court-martialed. >> revenge and retribution, trump ally steve bannon isn't just going after general millie, he is calling on the trump administration to imprison attorney general merrick garland and jack smith and also going after the nonprofits, with republicans trying, once again, to pass legislation allowing trump to shut down organizations she disagrees with. good evening, i'm jason johnson in for julie reed.

in an hour our nation's history, only one former president has ever been charged with mishandling classified information. only one former president has taken highly classified information and stacked it next to a toilet in one of his houses. only one former president has been alleged to take active steps to obstruct federal investigators from reclaiming that classified information. that man, donald trump, is now, once again, in receipt of classified information through intelligence briefings as president elect. those briefings started shortly after the election and keeping with a custom dating back to the 1950s. and while we should all be worried about trump regaining access to such highly sensitive information, given his track record of revealing it to our adversaries and the world, we should also be concerned about who will be responsible for preparing the daily classified

intelligence briefings for the returning president. that falls with the office of the director of national intelligence who, if confirmed, would be led by former democratic congresswoman turned maga republican, tulsi gabbard. or as russian state tv has referred to her as, and i'm not making this up, "russia's girlfriend." quite the apt nickname given her deference to the kremlin or at least her willingness to parrot it's talking points. as ruth ben-ghiat points out, nominating gabbard to national intelligence is a way to putin's heart, and it tells the world that, under trump, will be the kremlin's ally, rather than adversary. let's not forget that gabbard, who has never worked in intelligence, ever in her career, would be responsible for overseeing the entirety of the nation's 18 different intelligence agencies and departments. but, perhaps it should not be too surprising to have someone in that position who is so favorable to russia, given that her soon-to-be boss previously sided with putin over our own intelligence agencies, like the infamous helsinki summit in

2018, and claims of russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. >> my people came to me, dan coats came to me and some others, they said they think it is russia. i have president putin, he just said it is not russia. i will say this, i don't see any reason why it would be. >> joining me now to discuss is a member of the house intelligence committee, congressman roger chris morrissey of illinois and also joining us is msnbc political analyst, tim miller, writer at large for "the bulwark" and host of "the bulwark podcast." congressman, you are here with me at the table, so we will start with you. these intelligence briefings, obviously they are very important. we also know from past history that former president trump barely ever read them, didn't pay any attention to them. how problematic is it that he is now given this kind of

information again, and that will be getting put together by someone like tulsi gabbard who, quite frankly, doesn't appear to be particularly concerned about national security, at least for the way that americans have perceived over the last 70 years. >> it is terribly problematic. she is ill qualified for this job, as you pointed out. second of all, this job is really for the ultimate truth teller, so to speak. the person that is going to unearth the facts, tell the truth about what needs to be done to protect our national security. so, if her job is to basically tell him whatever he wants to hear, or to be loyal to him, that goes against the fundamental prerequisite to doing the job, which is telling the truth and being loyal, ultimately, to the american people and protecting their national security. >> tim, one of the concerns that any sort of common sense person would have is that as the congressman just mentioned, the people putting together national intelligence have to be truth tellers, they have to be willing, from time to time, to tell the president, hey,

this thing you want to do, it may not be the smartest thing. or, this thing you believe, it may not be true. we have seen this all the way back to the first bush administration in the gulf war, you cannot lie to these people, the generals will say there is a problem. how problematic is it that this incoming administration has not only pick people who want to be truth tellers in intelligence, but are trying to set up systems where they can remove experienced generals and national security people, who would be able to tell the truth? >> yeah, i think it is troubling, across a couple of different potential avenues, jason. the one that you guys are mentioning is, you know, the top level. right? that donald trump isn't interested in information that goes counter to his worldview. last time -- say what you want about the people around him, and certainly, they failed the country in a lot of ways -- but, he did have a handful of subject matter experts that did their best to try to tell him what was really happening out there, in the national security and intelligence space, but also in some of the other cabinet positions. that is not happening this

time. we are seeing that with his appointments. we all knew this was happening. this was something that we were warned about before the election, so i think that is a real problem. the other layer to the problem, for me, is thinking about how comfortable our allies are going to feel sharing information with us. i think that is something, where there is probably going to be some reflection on in european capitals, when they don't exactly know whether donald trump and tulsi gabbard are aligned with and, in particular, with regards to the situation in ukraine. you know, i think we could kind of go down this rabbit hole a little bit more if you wanted, but i think there is going to be potential issues there of not just coming from internally what people are giving trump, but also how, you know, the fabric of our alliances and how much intelligence sharing there is going to be, there. >> congressman, i'm going to play you some sound from gabbard talking about ukraine, and basically sounding like a russia propaganda artist. i will get your thoughts on the other side.

>> putin has made very clear all along that there security, in his mind, is what is at stake here. and they do not want to see -- >> i don't want to interrupt you, but putin also said ukraine is not a country. >> it is not -- it is not strategically possible to think that ukraine is going to be russia. president putin, zelenskyy, and biden, it is time to put geopolitics aside, and embrace the spirit of aloha, respect and love for the ukrainian people, by coming to an agreement that ukraine will be a neutral country. >> yeah, i don't remember that version of "aloha" in "ohana." maybe i missed that in the film. now, regardless of what people may feel about united states' support for ukraine -- and there are lots of different well-placed and well-meaning opinions on that -- the fact that you have people who don't seem to have at least an appreciation for the american perspective on the issue, and just want the perspective of the nation that was the

aggressor, russia, how problematic is that for our existing military, and for the work that is already being done in that part of the world? >> oh, it's going to harm our ability to assist ukraine. but, one other aspect of this, it helps the russians and their influence campaigns, because they don't need to make a deep fake. >> right. >> they don't need to make some fake persona. they can just play tulsi gabbard all day long. her statements, her press conferences, her videos. you know, they can basically tweet it out to the world and through their bots, and fake accounts, disseminate it throughout other countries, where we are trying to seek to gain the trust of the people there, and trying to influence the way they think about current events. >> so, this is something about the documents scandal from trump that i always thought was extremely problematic when it comes to national security. right?

you ever go to a friends house, you got them a really nice card for their birthday, you come back a week later, you are like "where's the car?" it is in the garbage, or something like that. our allies is how those documents, right, and it is like that christmas card laying next to the garbage like "hey, i give you that, this is important." what is the potential impact of this administration? i mean, clearly, france, and germany, and the uk, and australia, they are not going to want to share information in the same way with a trump administration. how could that endanger regular american citizens? >> well, remember, you know, we have very important alliances in the intelligence community even in the intelligence gathering and sharing spaces where we don't necessarily have eyes around the world, so we rely on others to gather intelligence and share it with us. it could be about threats to third parties, it could be threats to us. >> right. >> and so, if we don't have them sharing the latest and greatest information with us, we can't protect ourselves. we had an arrangement called five eyes.

this is with four other countries in the world -- new zealand, australia, the uk, and canada -- where we share virtually all of our crown jewel secrets. and so, i could see them basically holding back, and that would really impair our ability to protect ourselves, our allies, and our partnerships. >> it is really clear that the united states would no longer be in this national security group chat, with this new administration. and that has real consequences. 10, tim, i want to turn to some of these other people that are taking over some important agencies. we just heard this announcement -- and i honestly thought this was a joke, but then the staff told me, no, this is real -- trump picked former tv personality and senate candidate dr. oz to run medicare and medicaid. just your first thoughts, with another television reality start being put in charge of hundreds of millions of lives,

directly and indirectly, in a huge budget, in a critical government agency? >> yeah, jason, it seems like we are on the wrong side of the political aisle, because we would have been prime cabinet potential, you know -- [ laughter ] had we been on the trump side of things, because tv personalities seem to be the number one experience for him. here is the thing that is not funny. cms, it is like a real bureaucracy, real agency with real responsibilities. it is the type of thing that i am sure many viewers aren't familiar with. the people that have run this agency in the past, they are just competent bureaucrats. they are not tv figures. some of these cabinet roles really are a little bit, you know, our public facing and that is a big part of the job. like, that is not the case, here. this is a massive bureaucracy that provides very serious healthcare services to the most vulnerable in society, the poorest people and the elderly. and putting a charlatan from television in charge of it is preposterous and, you know, it

is hard to predict exactly what the negative consequences are going to be, but surely, this is not the best qualified person for the job. >> congressman, here is the thing. when government bureaucracy fails, the responsibility ends up falling on members of congress, right? >> right. >> if there is something happening with the irs, something happening with healthcare, something happening with social security, they are calling your office going, why can't i get the medicine i need? my son or daughter is stuck abroad on a school trip. how is this level of incompetence in important government agencies going to affect members of congress? >> well, that is the thing. i think we will have tons of constituent services cases rolling in pretty soon, because you are right. everything from a lost social security checks, to your veterans benefits not coming in on time, that is where we go to the civil servants, and we ask them for help. and if they have people like dr. oz in charge, you can imagine how much more complicated our constituent

services situation is going to be, and how many more cases are going to come in, because they are just going to screw up the disbursement of benefits in the first place. >> right. >> i guess, on the other hand, you could see how maybe, you know, we lucked out the first time when trump was in, because some of his draconian policies that he announced weren't implemented properly because of the incompetence of the bureaucracy. >> right. >> or, i'm sorry, the incompetence of the people he put in charge. so, it might be a double-edged sword, but i am not holding my breath. right now, we are -- we need competent people to deliver services. we are not going to get that. we are going to get people who are accused of sexual assault, or they are tv personalities, or both. >> right. so, i am going to close with that, actually, because we have more information here. the new york times is saying there is some hacker who is said to have gain access to the file with damaging testimony about matt gaetz. i don't know what the file could tell us that most

reporting hasn't already made abundantly clear. there is a lot of smoke, here. i suspect something is on fire. just as a member of congress and seeing how gaetz has operated, do you think he is likely to get confirmed? because again, it is not going to be about the scandals, it could just be about the fact that he is not a particularly popular person. do you still think he has a chance of becoming attorney general? >> he has a chance, but even my republican colleagues are saying the -- they don't think he is going to be returned. again, i keep my expectations super low at this point, because i am still looking for a lot of republicans with backbone in the senate and i haven't seen a lot of that. it is kind of an endangered trait. >> yes. >> but, on the other hand, i think with regard to matt gaetz, he has enough people that are kind of his sworn adversaries, that there is a possibility that he may not get confirmed. >> tim, i bring the same question to you, i think the idea that, i don't think trump is sophisticated enough to pick

a sacrificial lamb, he is not going to pick a harriet meyer, because i don't know you if you like this one, i will get the second one in. what is the possibility of just major disruption in this incoming administration if their first selection for ag is not successful? do you think it slows the implementation of any of the more horrendous policies they have been talking about trying to implement as soon as they get in office? >> yeah, potentially. here is the thing, there are going to be very narrow majorities in both houses and these guys are already inviting. i saw a tweet from one republican member of congress, wanted to offer medical leave to women who just had babies from congress, and another republican said "that is unconstitutional." jd vance, the vp elect sent a tweet calling one of steve bennett's producers an imbecile today, and then deleted it. like, these guys are getting in in fights. it is a rowdy bunch. so, i think potentially, gaetz

could be the thing that kicks that off. but, like the congressman, i don't have a ton of hope that we are going to see a bunch of backbone from republicans in the senate, but i do think that their efforts could be stymied by infighting. >> congressman and tim murphy, thank you for starting us off on the show. >> thank you. coming up, trump's threats of revenge and retribution are not just empty rhetoric. steve bannon is already promising war. we will talk to a reporter who interviewed him, extensively. that is next on "the reidout". never “who's waldo?” sometimes it takes someone who really knows you to make you feel seen. gifts that say i get you. etsy has it.

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come january 20th, steve

bannon, one of the president- elect's original supporters and favorite cod -- podcasters will have a renewed sense of self and a greater sense of power. ahead of that day, he has been telling everyone that will listen that he has promised nothing short of brutal revenge against "deep state players" who stand in donald trump's way. andrew weisz, of new york magazine, was one of the people bannon spoke to shortly after he was released from prison. what bannon proclaimed is that america had rendered a decisive verdict, and that they want trump back. he claims this happened by a complete remaking of the american electorate. upon according to rice "if bannon had his way, a lot of democrats, republican turncoats, and denizens of the deep state would be headed to places like danbury. " the prison were bannon spent the last four months. "those on his target list

include president biden, hunter biden, attorney general merrick garland, january 6th prosecutor jack smith, ms. cheney, nancy pelosi, new york attorney general tish james, and manhattan d.a. alvin bragg. " during his show, bannon made clear that the principal order of business was "revenge," because these folks "committed crimes," which of course, he could not define. joining me now to discuss his andrew weisz of new york magazine, the author of the article i just mentioned. andrew, thank you so much for joining us is this evening. i'm going to start with this, something i am really, really committed to. i have said this multiple times. i am not going to spend the next four years talking about palace intrigue. i am actually concerned with the actual news and policy of what is going on, here. i want to start with this. does steve bannon actually think he will be a part of this incoming administration? because, look, jobs have been offered to every single reality tv show, fox news host that is out there but we haven't heard word that steve bannon will be getting security clearance to walk into the white house, like

a lot of other people. >> well, steve bannon himself hasn't been offered jobs, but look who has been offered jobs. matt gaetz, the former filling cohost of "the war room," "the war room" being his television podcast that he does on a daily basis. >> right. >> people like boris epstein, people like cache patel, other people who were close to the president frequently appeared on that show and maintain close relations with him. and trump, himself, maintains an open line of communication to ben. i think it is fair to say that bannon represents, you know, the aid of the mega movement and donald trump always likes to stay in touch with that end. >> so, when bannon is running off this list of people that he wants to destroy, he wants to have them all imprisoned, does he have a methodology for doing this? and again, why this is

important, if we have people who are not elected, but have outside influence in the incoming administration, who can simply say, "i don't like this person," and pull the levers of power and have someone thrown into doubt jail, that is a dangerous, authoritarian state. how does he think he's going to do this? he is not ag, he does not have a department position, so how does he think he is going to throw joe biden in jail? how is he extra doubled down jail for hunter biden? how will the exact the revenge that he talked to you about in his interview? >> i mean, i think it is pretty clear how he intends for that to happen. he had intend for that to happen via donald trump. this isn't just steve bannon saying this. donald trump has called for the investigation or prosecution of everyone from, you know, jack smith, to the pollster in iowa the other day, he was calling for an investigation of her, for information warfare. trump himself has talked about prosecuting his enemies, and

so, the idea that bannon is endorsing this, he really is a voice in the choir rather than somebody out there alone. >> i want to play you some sound of some of bannon's promises of the people he is going to go after and get your thoughts on the other side. >> i think mark milley has to be recalled to active duty on the afternoon of the 20th, and i think a military tribunal, a court-martial, has to be called, and paneled, a court- martial, and mark milley has to be brought up on charges and court-martialed. we are going to burn some of these institutions down to the ground, because you know why? they need to be burned down to the ground, metaphorically. the justice department is getting swept out, the fbi is getting swept out. you people suck, okay? now, you are going to pay the price. >> so, this is been in tearing down the state rhetoric, he has been doing this for 10, 15 years, now. that is not entirely new. he may see his dream come true.

did he express to you in this interview what he thinks any of these institutions should be replaced with? i mean, for example, if you don't like the fbi because they investigated trump, the fbi also investigates domestic terrorism, the fbi also investigates international crime, the fbi also investigates gun rights. so, when he says "tear down these institutions," those who want to build them back up? or, does he think they need to be gone because the state bureaucracy is too big? >> i think whatever steve bannon may want to do, i think what is more likely to happen is that people who are unquestionably loyal to trump are going to be placed in control of these institutions. we have seen reporting today that chris frei, the fbi director, is likely to be forced out, fired as soon as trump becomes president. perhaps, replaced by cache patel, who is a frequent guest on steve bannon's show.

you know, there is -- similarly, at the justice department, it is not just matt gaetz who is there. sort of sailing under the radar is donald trump whole criminal defense team. who, you know, are many of the qualified federal prosecutors, former federal prosecutors, but nonetheless, people who have been working for the past couple of years to make sure that donald trump didn't serve any time in prison, and was able to get away with it. so, really, what we are seeing is a new sort of cadre of folks being put into positions of power. >> i have to ask this, because i think it is really, really, really crucial. bannon has people who he has established loyalty with, because they have appeared on his podcast and because they are sort of kinfolk, ideologically. but, we have seen -- and again,

this is not century, this is practical -- we have seen that bannon was pushed out of the previous administration. is he more aligned with this second trump administration than the first? so, is he likely to be more powerful now than he was the first time? is he going to be a voice that is going to be listened to, and seen less as a threat, but more as a guidepost this time around, then he was before? >> i mean, let's think about who was in the white house when bannon was pushed out. you know, john kelly, you know, and others -- people who consider themselves to be institutional lists, who wanted to kind of cut down on the chaos that surrounded bannon and others at all times in the white house during the first six or eight months of the first administration. you know, i think it is fairly clear, whose side donald trump is on. or, it has been resolved, you know, where donald trump is going to cast his lie, he is going to cast his lie with the bomb throwers, and so, in that respect, steve bannon is

somebody who is a voice that trump listens to. he is a voice that shapes opinion on the right. and so, therefore, somebody that is worth paying attention to. >> andrew weisz, thanks for your reporting and for that interview. >> thanks a lot. up next, what organizations are doing to fight back against trump's extreme agenda. i will talk to naacp president, derek johnson, next on "the reidout". reidout". ce so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. cool right? look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti... he's melting! oh jeez... nooo... oh gaa... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ this is the easiest, non-toxic swap you'll ever make.

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you may recall that during trump's first administration, nonprofit organizations were some of the fiercest opponents of his most extreme policies. groups like the aclu, naacp, and planned parenthood consistently used legal action to fight back against trump's most egregious and inhumane acts. now, these same groups are once again gearing up for a fight. that is, unless trump cronies and congress are able to do anything about it. last week, house republicans tried to pass the stop terror financing and tax penalties on american hostages act. what that bill would do -- other than provide tax relief to americans held hostage abroad -- is give the government unilateral authority to strip tax-exempt status and essentially shut down any

nonprofit deemed a "terrorist supporting organization." one can only support what an incoming president, who has threatened retribution and vowed to go after "the enemy within" would do with that kind of power. the vote last week failed. even as 52 democrats and almost all republicans supported it. but, the house is expected to take it up again as soon as tomorrow. joining me now to discuss is derek johnson, president and ceo of the naacp. thank you so much for joining me this evening. president johnson, i have to start with this, this bill is terrifying. basically, the government can identify any group and say, we are going to take away your 501(c)(3) status. what is the naacp doing right now, with very likely another impending vote tomorrow, sometime this week? are you bringing off the phones? are you looking up the people

who voted for this last time? what is your plan in the immediate sense, in dealing with this bill? >> well, first, let's start with the history of this country. this starts with mccarthyism. >> yes. >> the red scare. it is a committee on un- american activities, which we found something to be called more of a chilling effect, then to actually address some of the concerns. >> right. >> that is what is taking place. this incoming administration are seeking to quash or create a chilling effect against voices of opposition. >> right. >> none of the groups i can think of that are nonprofits are involved in any terroristic activities. in fact, it yields the guard rails of our democracy to raise a voice to opposition, to participate in political discourse, or leverage the federal courts to ensure the rights of americans are protected. so, for that acp, we are urging members of congress not to go in this direction. we have seen this before, and it did not end, for our democracy as a whole, or for individual citizens, individually. >> i have to point this out, because this shocks me when i looked at the 52 who voted last

time. you have members of the congressional black congress, hayes, glenn moore, you would think that the cdc in particular would be more aware of how dangerous this policy is. are you all making targeted calls? or, do you just think there is a possibility that people have recognized the mistake they made in the vote last week and they will not make it again? >> absolutely, targeted calls. lots of times, the language of the bill don't really open up the reality of the impact of the bill. and i just give all of those members deference, that they didn't understand that the language would actually have a disparate impact. we have members of the naacp currently in congress who voted against this. and now, we need to educate more people, not only members of congress, but the american public, that this is not in the best interest of america or our democracy.

>> so, the courts have never necessarily been in favor of consistent justice or freedom for black people in this country, that is not new. >> right. >> we now have a supreme court that basically said -- they would interpret this differently, had harris won -- but basically, donald trump can do what he wants. it is all legal as long as he is president of the united states. so, if a president were to say, in six or seven weeks, hey, i just want mass deportations of everybody, that impacts the black community, right? there are many, many african- americans who have relatives who are not documented, people who might be from the caribbean, people who might be from the congo, one way or the other. is there a legal strategy that the naacp has, in the face of possible mass deportations in january? can you share it, or is it a secret? >> we can talk about the one thing, but we need to recognize all the things. this would be swan theory at its best, so many things coming at you at one time, that you would lose focus on what is really taking place. and what is taking place now, is a power grab. in our democracy, to consolidate in ways in which we have not seen in this country, since its founding. you think about it, there is a

goal to have hundreds of executive orders on day one. there is a goal to have -- nominate and appoint individuals both in the cabinet and on the judiciary. there is a power grab that we need to stay focused on, so we can go and play whack a mole to hit all of the many things or stay focused on what is really taking place, and it is a subversion of our democracy, and so for the organization, naacp particularly, this focuses on a big thing and what is the right approach in this moment? because our democracy is directly attacked, and the enemy is not from somebody outside. the enemy has just got elected to office. >> so, i have looked back -- we talked about this with the team we are preparing for this segment -- trump hasn't spoken at an naacp segment. he hasn't spoken, he hasn't showed up, said he was busy, didn't show up one way or the other. there are some who would argue -- not me, i am not in that

camp -- but some who argue, hey, these are the folks in power. you should be looking to find places in common. you should be engaging. do you see the naacp as having an adversarial, or an engagement sort of philosophy with this incoming administration? >> our goal is to look at the public policy, not the politician. and if the public policy lines with opening up access to opportunities, ensuring that all americans have equal protection under the law, to guarantee the promise of the constitution would apply across the country, that is our focus. and if this administration is willing to ensure that legal protection under the law, that the constitution applies to everyone, and that we have an opportunity to live out that creed of the pursuit of happiness and liberty, that is our focus. regardless of what political party is in place, or the politician that serves in office. >> one last question because i think this is really key. often times, when we are faced with the circumstances such as this -- and none of us have seen this before, this was more like woodrow wilson 100 years

ago -- have you seen an increase in membership? often times, in the increase of authoritarianism or a threat, you see people joining organizations. have the naacp seen more interest, people coming to the website, donors coming saying, i want to be a part of the organization? have you seen that page over the last two weeks? >> the shocking outcome of the election two years ago has created an increase of interest. we have seen membership increase, we have seen support increase, but we also see an increase in cost thing, what are we going to do? people are concerned. we recalled four years ago that the increase in hate crimes went up. in one weeks time, we have seen in pittsburgh a mass shooting, and in louisville, kentucky, targeting the black community, the latino community, and in the jewish community. in america, we should be talking about how we come together, not using racism and other is him to divide us, so that individuals can seize power, and take it away from all of us black, white, green,

or other. >> thank you so very much. i really do appreciate it. in aa president -- naacp president and ceo, derek johnson, thank you for joining us on "the reidout". >> thank you. up next, the threats of people moving because of trump aren't hypothetical anymore. there is more and more talk of people moving to blue states or even out of the country to escape maga's authoritarian agenda. take a look at that, next on "the reidout". "the reidout". [cheering] [car rev] ha, ha, what a hit! and if you don't have the right auto insurance coverage, the cost to cover that... might tank your season. ♪♪ so get allstate, save money on auto insurance and be protected from mayhem, like me. [whoo] [cheering]

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election -- yes, it has only been 14 days -- we have seen a number of headlines and marketing campaigns aimed at people thinking of leaving the u.s. of a. there is the italian village, offering one dollar homes on a website that was "specifically created to meet u.s. post elections relocation needs." with a cruise ship offering a one year "escape from reality," and four your "skip forward trip." while these headlines and the idea of people in mass withdrawn from the resistance to float on a cruise for four years while thinking there would still be a republic to come back to, are kind of funny. they are also the result of something many americans are actually feeling. and unlike in 2016, when you had a number of backpage editorials from academics and colonists saying they want to

leave this country, this time, the energy is different. at this time, people are considering it, not just because they don't like trump, but because now they actually fear government retaliation. and don't just take this from me. google searches for "move to canada" surged over 1000% in the 24 hours after polls closed. searches about moving to new zealand climbed nearly 2000%. and the travel company x pass, saw a nearly 30,000 people visit its website. i want to make it clear, these are not the whims of fancy new york magazine readers with homes in the hamptons musing about a gap year in france while things cool off in the united states. this is regular people, it is government officials, retired military members, people with trans children asking very serious questions about their future and how they could all be targets under a trump regime. it is people in mixed status families, who, while unable to leave the country, are now thinking about moving to states

like california, minnesota, or maryland, where democratic governors are offering to trump proof their estates. these haitian or venezuelan asylum-seekers who are now looking to move to a state that will protect the sanctuary cities and is less likely to let trump take control of the state national guard for deportations. these are real questions. these are real questions in terms america. to make sense of all of this is selena maxwell, thank you so much for joining us this evening. so, i want to start with this. in 2016 as i mentioned, you have people that are like, i'm going to leave the country, blah, blah, blah. but, a lot of that is seen as just talk for wealthy people who can just disappear. but, in the subsequent years, there has been an increase in american ex-pats who are just like, i don't like the direction this country is going. talk a little bit about the motivation some people have to leave the country? because that is a decision you made even before trump came back into power?

>> yeah, jason, i think this is a really, really important conversation happening right now. people are not just thinking about leaving the country on a win. they are seeking safety, and for me, personally, it was emotional safety, physical safety, the ability to live in peace and exist in a place where a race doesn't contribute to blocking my imagination, my ability to reach my highest potential, and to do my job clearheaded, and cover the election, right? i mean, i was dealing with personal loss in my own family, but for me, in this particular moment, especially post election, i think what you see in the searching for places to go, people are looking for safety, jason. >> so, you are currently in italy. i have seen a lot of research with people looking at mexico. obviously, there is lots of people going to canada.

i am curious, from outside of this country, how is this being looked at? people are like, oh, now you want to come over. is there a perspective now about americans possibly wanting to flee our shores and coming to europe? is that welcome? do people find that confusing? how is that looking from abroad? >> from over here, i think there are two things that are true. number one, when trump comes up in conversation -- and i will note here in italy and in sicily, people living in the present, living their lives like anybody else. but when he does come up, the general consensus is, what is wrong with america? i think when you see folks coming over here to live, they are confused because they had been sold this pr notion about america is the land of the free and the land of opportunity, and

when i explained that prices are really high, and that things are really expensive in america, and it is not exactly the picture that has been sold to you, there is a look of confusion on their faces. i think there is a lot of tourism here in italy, especially in rome, and people are looking for an escape, but the folks here that are living, they are very much living their lives, very much living in the present moments, in the smaller moments, and small interactions between actual humans, and i think that one of the things i have learned in being here is that they deeply value connection, human connection, and that is something that, from here, it was so obvious to me that the something that is lacking in the united states, and it is one of the causes of our divisions, jason. >> so, you have worked in journalism, you have worked on the clinton campaign, you have been in politics in the past. many people are afraid, now. we have bureaucrats, as we just

mentioned, retired military workers, campaign workers, who fear that their only crime is that they worked in the biden administration, or they worked on the harris campaign. and they are afraid that they will be prosecuted. as someone who worked on a political campaign that was attacked by trump -- and he said, you know, i want to lock hillary clinton up, and anybody that worked with her -- for years. take us into the mind-set of someone who has just dedicated themselves to running a clean, legal, political campaign for the last 18 months, who is now being told by the incoming president, i want to jail not only the candidate you worked for, but somebody like you, who may have worked for them? >> i think a lot of folks in that position are looking at one another to help protect each other. i think that is something that when you are in the trenches of a campaign, that is something, you come out of that like you are family, and you are looking to do everything you possibly can on that human level to protect your family, and i think that most of the folks who worked on the campaign that are having those fears, they are just coming up with a specific ways that they can protect each other, and that

includes emotionally, jason. i think there is a lot of emotion and stress that went into this campaign. i think the fact that you just said it was two weeks ago, it feels like longer than that. but, i think that there was so much buildup to the election, and i think everyone is processing trauma, and grief, and loss in this moment, but they are really just trying to get themselves put back together, so that they can protect one another from any oncoming threat. >> zerlina maxwell, thank you for joining us, that is a very, very neat perspective. thanks for coming on "the reidout" tonight. >> thanks, jason. >> we will be back with more "the reidout". he reidout". a, save up to 50% off plus free shipping. (children speaking) and start making memories at balsamhill.com

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that's tonight's reidout. be sure to catch the latest episode on my podcast. a word with jason johnson. i spoke to rebecca lytle and colleen long to talk about their new book, i'm sorry for my loss. an examination of reproductive care in america. it's a must-read in the face of the new administration facing a potential national abortion ban. a personal story, guidebook, and a rally cry. definitely a must read. all in with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on all in . mr. president are you reconsidering the nominationof