that can have a pernicious effect. so i think we have a chance of slowing it down, not being just a speed bump on the way to an authoritarian government, and we have to have every opportunity when trump is overreaching, to not just be a yield right of way for his erroneous endeavors. >> congressman lloyd doggett, thank you, i appreciate it. that is all in on this tuesday night. alex wagner begins right now. >> what you talked about could lead to a show. it's the end of your shift. it's a testament to where we are at if there is one hallmark of the trump era, one strategy

that has been employed to force through a radical agenda it might be the sum paid first articulated by steve bannon all the way back in 2018. the democrats don't matter. the real opposition is the media. and the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with-- stuff. he didn't say stuff, but you get the idea. steve bannon was overstating the role of media and understating the role of actual democratic officials, but that flood the zone approaches something we have seen trump to great effect do. it's not that trump is a brilliant tactician, but on some level trump realizes the best way to avoid scrutiny is simply do a whole lot of bad things all at once to keep everyone's attention divided, something we are seeing play out right now today. this hour. today republican congresswoman nancy mace would ban transgender

people from using the bathroom they identify with. this bill was designed to still controversy about sarah mcbride who became the first openly transgender person ever elected to congress in this past election. under mace's bill bride would be forced to use the men's room on capitol hill. it's an obviously dehumanizing attempt to bully a new member of congress. it's a clear attempt to gain the spotlight given representative mace just three years ago cosponsored a bill that would have protected transgender people from exactly this kind of discrimination. and here is what she says now. >> is this effort in response to congresswoman mcbride coming to congress? >> yes and absolutely. if mcbride wants to go to the gym she can go to planet fitness. it's not going to

happen not on my watch. >> the irony here is that if there are any alleged or accused sexual predators coming to town in 2025 they may be two of trump 's on cabinet picks. pete hegseth and matt gaetz are fighting allegations of sexual misconduct, allegations that both men deny. but, nancy mace is worried about transgender people using her bathroom. this is literally what it means to flood the zones. we are talking about nancy mace and transgender panic and not say the unfitness of trump's cabinet picks . the bulwark video of rfk jr. trump picked to lead the health and human services agency suggesting he is open to the idea the global coronavirus pandemic was actually a sinister government conspiracy. >> many people argue that this

pandemic was planned from the outside as part of a scheme i can't tell you the answer to that i don't have enough evidence. >> to be clear, the pandemic that caused the deaths of more than 1 million people in the united states, the covid pandemic, was not planned by the u.s. government. here's another example a few hours ago trump named dr. mehmet oz and former tv doctor to run the center for medicare and medicaid services. prior to joining trump's or get trump had a reputation mccaskill pressed him on during a 2014 senate hearing.

>> why would you say something is a miracle in a bottle? >> my job i feel on the show is to be a cheerleader for the audience. >> years later dr. oz went on to use his platform as a medical influencer to advocate the reopening of schools at the height of the covid pandemic even if that meant potentially hundreds more people including children had to die. >> first we need our mojo back let's start with's that are really critical to the nation where we think we might be able to get into trouble. schools are very appetizing opportunity-- i saw a nice piece arguing opening schools may cost us 2%-3% in terms of total mortality-- >> what's the harm in killing 2% to 3% of people if it gets our mojo back? here's another example again from today, abc news is reporting according to multiple sources trump is considering nominating the architect of project 2025 for a cabinet level position. nbc news has not independently verified that reporting, but remember trump spent the last six months insisting he had nothing to do with project 2025

, so yes, flooding the zone is the playbook here. and now it is being run in a way that we have literally never seen before. so this is a new normal, if this is just the way it's going to be now how do democrats, how does the media, how should the public stay focused on what is really happening? joining me now are dan pfeiffer, former white house senior adviser to president obama, current msnbc political analyst, dan, claire, thank you for being here. clear? let me start with you in terms of how it is drinking from a fire hose quite literally, something we became adept at in 2016, but this feels like a different order of magnitude, and i wonder how you are picking and choosing where to focus your concern and rage. >> that's hard, i am halfway between in a field position

depressed and enraged like every 10 minutes. it's a roller coaster ride right now. but let me just say this. on these nominees every seven or will have to cast a vote. many will cast votes in committee, then there will be a hearing, and the democratic senators will have a lot of things to talk about in those hearings, and hopefully they get covered widely by all stripes of media, not just on our networks, but on fox news, and some of the right-wing disinformation centers, and hopefully americans see why these people are completely unqualified. a bunch of these senators know that this was not a landslide. the republican senator did not win in wisconsin. senate candidate didn't win nevada. the senate candidate even

though he had money was popular did not win in maryland. there were a lot of states, where republicans reminded this is not a country that is lopsided in favor of unqualified nominees for important, complex government jobs. and i think trump may be surprised, you only have to have four. if you take the people who aren't running again you get to four. >> dan, could that, do you think, i wonder, i mean i understand the desire to sort of sift through the wreckage and say to debate whether trump has a mandate or not. i think it's clear that certain lines of criticism or coverage

have not resonated the way i think perhaps a lot of people who are tethered to earth one and the truth would have liked them to. i wonder if you think particularly democrats in the senate who will be part of this confirmation process should adopt a different strategy when thinking about what to focus on with these potential cabinet picks. >> i don't know about the different strategy we have a robust case to make all of i think we have to be careful, it's something we all fell into when trump was elected, we become the defenders of the status quo, defenders of the institution, and i think what we can do here is acknowledged that seeing institutions and government need to be reformed, but they should not be changed in the way donald trump is proposing, and i think we can make the case against rfk jr., tulsi gabbard, matt gaetz, but it is pure cronies and corruption, he's putting in place people who will serve his interests, not the nation's

interests. that we have a whole lot of people who voted for trump who don't like him or agree with them, they voted for him for lowering their costs and bring change to government. this is not the change they voted for. this is the case we should make. >> what you think of that argument as far as it is concerned, people like tom tillis, people up for re- election, people who maybe the pivot points here? do you think the argument works? that this is one man's self- serving agenda? is it sexual assault allegations? what is most resonating? >> i think in terms of messaging that democrats need to be disciplined about presenting these candidates not just potentially guilty of sexual assault, that they are holy and qualified, but they are part of a trump agenda to do things americans don't want.

pinning down these folks on where would two thirds of the workforce you're going to be in charge of or where would you cut those two thirds? mosque has said they will cut two thirds of the employees. well i would like dr. oz who with a straight face told me it was okay for him to say that berries were a miracle in a bottle and cut your fat and all that silliness he did on his show, i would like him to explain to the american people how you cut two thirds of people to process medicare payments or how you cut two thirds who administer healthcare in this country, getting payments out to help americans. i think focusing on the american people will be much more effective. but remember why these guys were chosen, not just to further trump's ego, and his idea this is all about him, but

the other reason they were chosen is they are good, performative politicians. they will do performance, they will do soundbites. these are not people that are qualified to run anything. most of these folks have never run anything in their lives, much less really sprawling, complex organization with essential services to the mac and people who pay for them. >> it seems to claire's point about the qualifications, how is that all is going to manage cms? what exactly is pete hegseth going to do in terms of running the giant sprawling bureaucracy that is the u.s. military? what issues in particular do you think are the most easily brought to the floor by democrats that will, not just with republican senators, but the mac in public?

we've had like a whole election play out, and it seems like the harris campaign tried to hit on nonpartisan issues people put out, and some degree that did not resonate at all. what's the lesson for the issues specifically that need to be focused on? >> i think it is worth separating the effort to convince republican senators to vote against them with the broader effort to against the public that the maga extremist party cannot be allowed to govern in '26, '28, and forward. republican senators who have seen mike pence come out attack rfk jr. for being having supported abortion access in his career, so we should do everything we can to defeat these candidates, there's a broader story we want to tell. the part we had to be careful on is a lot of voters, the ones

who went from biden to trump, the ones who came into the process for the first time who voted for trump they are very cynical about government, they are very cynical about politicians, they are distrustful of institutions, and if the answer is for they are not expert enough, they are not from washington enough to do those jobs that is going to fall by the wayside. we have to be specific about the ways in which these individual appointments will affect people's lives. what senator mccaskill hit him with dr. oz and medicare and medicaid is very important. for matt gaetz he is not there to protect us from crime, right? to stop terrorism, stop financial fraud and all the things the-- and not investigate who donald trump does not want investigated. so making it more specific about how it affects people's lives will be better unqualified

argument although that may work with republican senators for sure. >> it's too complicated. i get what you are saying, dan. the argument for tom tillis-- but the idea that democrats have been forced into the position of defending institutions and bureaucracies, and in a moment of like with the american public is desirous of change that's not a good place to be. do you agree with that? do you think that careful choreography of defending democracy and transparency and rule of law can exist apart from a more strident defense of institutions people have lost faith in? >> yeah, i agree with dan. what this should not be about the status quo in government is what we are here to protect, because no americans are going

to go oh yeah we love the status quo of government it's perfect nothings ever wrong i'm never put on hold, i never have to worry about getting answers to my questions, that's like asking people if they love going to the dmv. it is really not a good idea to take the position that these people are going to hurt the status quo. what these people are going to do is hurt you. they are going to hurt your life, because they are planning on doing things that you don't agree with it and that is the challenge of the senate. specific qualifications to, that will speak to certain senators. those senators will learn about their backgrounds. i guarantee there are votes enough to confirm matt gaetz. so, but this really is about chuck schumer and the democratic caucus having the discipline of messaging. this is about defending the american people. >> dan pfeiffer, client and

claire mccaskill, thank you. coming up the president- elect attends a spacex rocket launch with a man who is already received government contracts and stands to gain more. trump has started receiving intelligence briefings again despite being indicted on 40 cans of mishandling classified intelligence. what could go wrong? a member of the house intelligence committee joins me to discuss next. iscuss next. switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your business. take full control of your brand with your own custom store. scale faster with tools that let you manage every sale from every channel. and sell more with the best converting checkout on the planet. a lot more.

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today we learned president- elect trump is now receiving intelligence briefings once again. we don't know the specifics of those briefings, but it's highly likely they involve classified material. remember the last time donald trump had regular access to classified information remember that? he revealed capability of satellites tweeting out a photo of an iranian missile launch sites he shared classified intelligence by gathered by a foreign ally with russian officials in the oval office, and of course he was indicted on 40 federal criminal counts related to the mishandling of classified documents after he left office. remember all that?

we learned trump's team is continuing to opt out of the official transition process in ways that jeopardize national security. in calls with foreign heads of state trump has cut out the state department its secure lines and its official interpreters as he considers appointees for key jobs trump has also declined to let the fbi check for red flags and security threats against espionage relying on campaign leaders for some appointees and doing no vetting at all for others. joining me now is congressman jason crow democrat of colorado who serves on the house intelligence and foreign relations committees. congressman crow, thank you for being here. we rattled off a list, a litany of distressing reporting about this trump transition, and i

wonder if someone who sits on the committees you do, what alarms you the most about what we are hearing? >> wilma, alex, it's hard to decide where to start. policies and procedures, security checks on protocol, and these aren't put in place just for fun, right? those are put in place to protect against spies, espionage, to protect the transfer and dissemination of really critical information that isn't going to just be left somewhere. we have to understand there are adversaries actively trying to get this stuff, to penetrate our cyber security systems every day, so protecting this and having these processes in place is meant to protect the american people and is meant to protect our intelligence officers, and there were servicemen and women who are serving in dangerous places which that information could

put them in a compromising position. certainly the process is flawed, but as we all well know the fundamentals of these nominees and their very policies themselves are disturbing as well. >> can i follow on that, would you assume foreign adversaries are trying to listen in on these phone calls trump is having with world leaders giving that he is not using secure lines are engaging in protocols that normally exist? >> i don't have to assume that, i know that to be true. as we sit here right now having this conversation we have thousands of intelligence officers around the globe in very dangerous situations putting themselves at risk to collect information or protect information to prevent attacks against the american people that prevent our financial systems from being breached we have servicemen and women around the globe in dangerous places protecting american citizens, protecting our assets. this is an hourly occurrence. this is an act-- letting her guard down poses a substantial

risk. when you look at the people who he has nominated like tulsi gabbard and others who not only are incompetent and don't have the experience to do this, but i question their loyalties in some cases. tulsi gabbard has a very long history of showing affinity to dictators and autocrats, of being irresponsible with russian propaganda, and when i say irresponsible that's generous for somebody who has purposefully perpetuated that propaganda. and it's a very dangerous time here. >> i was going to ask about tulsi gabbard, i believe it is 18 intelligence agencies. what about pete hegseth? soldiers accused of war crimes, there are his own sexual assault allegations, an nda he assigned in the wakes of a woman that is an ongoing situation on the hill. what concerns you

about his nomination? >> the lack of experience and simply that he was nominated, because he will be loyal to donald trump. in your prior segment when you are speaking with dan and claire you made an interesting point about democrats being put in a position of defending agencies and the parents. that's actually not what we are doing. we are not defending agencies and departments, what we're trying to do is ensure that government works to protect americans, that it works to serve americans, and that can take the form of fraud waste, and abuse, that that's addressed that nominees are not put in nominations to dismantle organizations, to line the pockets of cronies are supporters of donald trump, or to weaponize those agencies against donald trump office opponents, which clearly is the

case with matt gaetz for example. it is the same thing we are doing. we are working to ensure the government works for americans, not for individuals, not for donors. >> can i follow up on that? i think there is a more fine line than there should be separating the idea of democrats who want to ensure the integrity of institutions and the notion of just being a blanket defender of bureaucracy. the window has shifted so much that unless you are there to bring it down you are part of the deep state. and, i wonder if you think of that job of democrats defending the institutions of democracy and the guardrails that protect our representatives democracy is going to be harder in trump 2.0 when you have people like matt gaetz at the department of justice and tulsi gabbard at the office of national intelligence. can you talk a little bit more about that?

>> yeah, people talk a lot about defending institutions, defending the guardrails, but defending the institution the guardrail does not mean the end. that's not the ultimate goal. it's to protect americans and ensure that government serves them. that's the goal. these guardrails, these institutions are furtherance of that goal. whenever we talk about defending the rules, based international order, defending institutions, a lot of people are like well why not? and to what end? so it's, we talked about what we are trying to achieve and how it serves americans, and the people in my district in colorado, the families. how their lives are impacted by clean food, clean water, aviation inspectors, a rail line inspector, intelligence officers thwarting attacks against americans, that is the goal, and that is the way we need to pursue policy and oversight. >> congressman jason crow,

thank you so much for your perspective on this. it's really great to hear from a sitting member of congress about the road ahead. i appreciate your time tonight, sir. humming up, the coziness between donald trump and elon musk was on full display and spacex's latest rocket launch. how much more money, power, and influence can one man have? that is next. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a

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most likely it's going to have occasion, because we have a lot of land with nobody around. if it blows up it's cool. >> that was elon musk, richest man, owner of spacex in 2018 talking about spacex's launch site, boca chica. it is one of the southernmost points, and a tiny strip of that property surrounded almost entirely by government owned land. that's why elon musk thought if stuff lows up it's cool. and stuff certainly has loan up over and over again, but here's the thing about boca chica, texas. even though there are to ton of people nearby it doesn't mean it's empty. the government-owned land is made up of state parks,

beaches, and national wildlife refuges. the area is home to protected bird habitats to a breeding ground for the most endangered species of sea turtle. here's his description of a successful launch. again this is a successful launch, no explosions involved. mech hours after the launch a team from spacex, u.s. fish and wildlife service, and the conservation group began canvassing the fragile migratory bird habitat surrounding the launch site. the impact was obvious. the impact unleashed a burst of mud, stone, fiery debris across the public lands encircling mr. musk's $3 billion base compound. chunks of sheet-metal and insulation were strewn across the sand flats on one side of a state park. elsewhere, a small fire ignited

leaving a charred patch of grass lands remnants from the blastoff that burned 7.5 million pounds of fuel. most disturbing to one member of the entourage was the a smear on the soil in the same spot a bird's nest lay the day before. none of the nine nests recorded by coastal bend basin estrous program before the launch had survived intact. egg yolk now stained the ground. and that was a successful launch. for years now spacex has been at odds with government agencies like u.s. fish and wildlife service and the department of the interior and epa over the impact of spacex's boca chica launch pad. today elon musk was joined for spacex's latest launch by president-elect trump, himself. last week trump tapped musk to what he's calling the department of government efficiency. the idea is that musk would be given a broad remit to suggest cuts to federal agencies as

musk sees fit, fish and wildlife, and department of the interior, and epa. familiar agencies if you are elon musk. the cherry on top is because musk would be an adviser to donald trump and not an actual government employee musk to be confirmed by the senate, nor would he have to divest from any of the companies overseen by the agencies that elon musk would now be overseeing. spacex's flight with the government in boca chica are really just the tip of the iceberg here. elon musk office companies have been targeted in over 20 recent investigations or reviews by federal regulators, and now elon musk has the president's ear. trump is literally attending elon musk's rocket launches, and potentially giving him free range to cut the government agencies elon musk has problems with not to mention all of the

money musk stands to make on government contracts alone. we'll get into that and much more coming up next. next. ♪♪ playing games! ♪♪ dancing in the par... (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound)

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following donald trump's election win the world's 10 record billionaires got richer be the man who gained the most was already the world's richest person, elon musk. overnight musk's wealth increased by a staggering $26.5

billion, and that could just be the first installment as trump's cochair more of an outside advisory musk could have unprecedented power over how the federal government functions and operates including how federal contracts operate, which is not a bad place to be if you are elon musk and two of your companies have received over $15 billion in taxpayer money including for programs like spacex. the relationship that by the looks of it today may only get more cozy. joining me now is a reporter for the new york times who has been covering campaign finance and the influence of billionaires in american politics, teddy, thank you so much for being here. i've been eager to have this conversation with you. each day brings a new data point about the trump-musk relationship. i was struck by the launch and

trump saying i am heading to the great state of texas to watch the launch of the largest object or of-- involved in this incredible project. presidents having admiration for space programs is not new, but the relationship between spacex and the federal government seems to be a particular one. can you talk more about that and how much money is being exchanged there? >> certainly. even if kamala harris had won etiquettes to elon musk would have a big role in american space policy. i mean he runs kind of the largest private space company, and i think it's fair to say he would always play a large role, but trump is clearly enamored by the role that musk is playing right now. you can see it on the screen, he's having a lot of fun. he's getting to see up close how -- launch he's clearly enjoying the fact and trump doesn't

really know anything about space policy, he knows a little of manufacturing, but i think part of the reason they get along so well right now is because trump is learning about this industry, he is seeing rockets, big billows of smoke and fire, i mean, he's having fun. >> is easily understandable, a giant rocket going into space. space x has received $14.4 billion in contracts across agencies. i , the, the charmingly-- the cozy relationship between these two men certainly has to be a good thing for elon musk just in terms of continuing to keep the money flowing. then there's the issue of

tesla, which musk obviously has a vested interest in. i think tesla earned $1.79 billion from carbon credits. this seems like a little bit of a more complicated relationship given the climate to nihilism that composes much of the gop. on the expectations going into that, trump and his climate change skeptic at the epa potentially, and generally that republican posture on climate and musk's vested interest in climate technology. >> you would think for a minute or forget for a minute elon musk in driving a tesla card carrying element of being a proud democrat. elon doesn't talk much on climate anymore. look at his twitter feed, and what he has said publicly he hasn't really been asked to square policy on climate change with his support for trump.

he cares about immigration, crime, i would love to have a great answer, but it makes you wonder does trump really know about elon musk's traditional sense on climate issues and whether elon himself cares about the issue. the first time elon musk was about the paris climate accords. elon politics certainly have changed, but you raise a good point, which is it is unclear that issue that animates elon to get involved with electric vehicles [ inaudible ] >> potential help he might do something to sway trump on climate change seems like a far-

fetched idea indeed. i wonder though, you know, we talked about musk's various business interests here. he now will be cochairing this department on government efficiency. it's not an efficient official government agency. is there talk of the trump administration tinkering with the law to take up elon's recommendations more wholeheartedly, for the white house to take more control of the pursestrings, that's normally with congress, do you expect elon musk to use this agency to benefit him and his bottom line given what we know-- >>-- has enter a government there are conflicts of interest the inevitable i don't really buy the idea this is impossible

to manage. i think what the challenge is with this particular department that elon is proposing setting up, is that this is a government body outside the normal kind of disclosure regime . it's unclear these will be public, that's a big difference from ceo of goldman sachs going to be secretary of the treasury, that is a well-worn path in the revolving door of american capitalism. here, i think disclosure this will be frankly think what the government body will do and we don't have either for this right now, and look. with vivek ramaswamy and elon musk they can play a role in federal government and budget- cutting, but we need more information frankly about how exactly this will be

structured, so-- which can be done. >> i'm going to say that's a cautiously optimistic note for doge and musk. i am pessimistic for the record, but i agree, teddy schleifer, from the new york times. thank you. donald trump once a get out of jail free card for felony convictions in new york, but prosecutors are still trying to get justice. what they are willing to do, coming up next. ming up next. to buy, or not to buy?

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♪ it's time to try defying gravity ♪ ♪ ♪ manhattan prosecutors succeeded in convicting donald trump on 30 for felony counts are not giving up the fight-- das office to that trump is president-elect and in the wake supreme court's ruling on presidential immunity. the das office rebuffed that request given the unprecedented

nature of this case prosecutors also signaled a willingness to put trump's sentencing on hold while trump is in office. the decision to freeze or dismiss the case, judge juan merchan is expected to say something about it. a lot has changed, sir. first of off white is bragg-- >> this judge both of those are extremely unlikely to happen. he has two bad choices. one is to sentence the president-elect of the united states to time served as basically all of this was for

nothing. the other is to say i'm going to sentence him in a way that balance he's these constitutional norms of respect for the presidency, and respect for the jury system, kick it down the road and sentence him he won't interfere with the presidency at all. so alvin bragg is going to be asking for jail time if it's put four years in the future. right now there's no choice. the only sentence available is what is called an unconditional discharge, which means that is it, the case is done, he has a felony conviction, and that's it. >> reading between the lines here, it sounds like you believe that if juan merchan preferably kicks the can down the road it's because he has something in mind for trump that's quite serious in terms of the sentence? >> i think the pathway to incarceration is there, it's narrow, but abscess in a post- presidency, but there's another reason is and think could happen in the next four years.

the judge-- anything could happen, by kicking the can down the road he preserves a lot of options, it gives him chance to rule on these motions in a way that is not really time pressured, he can make the decision. without legal precedents, he wants to try and get it right, and there's really no rush anymore. >> we are seeing cans being kicked down the road or being thrown into the recycling bin outright. georgia court of appeals canceled oral arguments that were scheduled for december 5th about whether the fulton county d.a. should be disqualified from the election interference case she brought against trump. this has to do with the whole kerfuffle with nathan wade. they canceled the oral argument. what does that say to you about what's going on with this case? >> there are bigger issues at stake here than this sideshow about the prosecutors and disqualifications. trump was losing those arguments prior to the election.

i think now they are probably reevaluating the whole case whether it can go forward. they are dealing with all the constitutional issues this court is dealing with, so in a way they are saying this is a sideshow right now. we have to get to the meat of the issue, which is canada's prosecution go forward? can any state prosecution right now go forward against the president-elect? so, i think the reason they canceled it without any comment is that this is just a minor sideshow at this point with your problems. >> is your assumption that case goes away? >> i think the two federal cases are dead on arrival obviously, and i think the other two are sort of withering away slowly, and there are pathways to a conviction in georgia. there's a pathway to incarceration in new york, but it's narrowing. it's dying on the vine, and i think it's going to be tortured. if it survives it will only be

because it survives a very tortured process. this has given trump's lawyers so much to argue in balancing norms and how a case like this goes forward, that might be years before anything ever really happens on either of these two state cases. >> in the meantime his allies are still being prosecuted in at least four states, rudy giuliani, mark meadows. so there is some accountability for some people who are affiliated with the plot to sway an election. duncan levin, the evening. "way too early" can jonathan lemire is coming up next. ♪♪ i would suggest that they