it is not just about protecting folks that make up the fabric and entrepreneurs of our city, but also make sure that they can thrive and be empowered, which is another thing we also have to lead on in the city of l.a. and i think that has an effect of having -- giving the larger population a vision of what the city can look like. we can't be doing it by trying to sacrifice folks that are coming here to work and make a living and uplift their families. >> hugo soto martinez from los angeles, i thank you very much. a pleasure seeing you. appreciate your time. >> thank you for having me. >> that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. you can always reach me on social media at jd balart and watch clips from our show at youtube at msnbc.com/jdb. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," president-elect's choice to run the pentagon, former fox news host pete hegseth, on capitol hill today, facing senators as

2017 police report detailing conflicting accounts from hegseth and a woman over a sexual assault accusation. his attorney general choice matt gaetz tries to rally support, republicans on the house ethics committee blocked the release of a partisan report about the former congressman who is investigated for sexual misconduct and illicit drug use. joining me this hour, jack reed, an appropriations committee chair patty murray, on trump's controversial cabinet choices. os controversial cabinet choices. good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington where president-elect trump's pick to be defense secretary pete hegseth is under intense scrutiny today, as he's lobbying with republican senators for support. the former fox host facing allegations of sexual assault in 2017, detailed in documents

released by police late wednesday. the woman referred to as jane doe in the report met hegseth at a republican event in monterey, california, where he was speaking. she said her memory is fuzzy, but that after meeting hegseth, she found herself in an unknown room with hegseth over her. both hegseth and his lawyer have said the encounter was consensual. he was never charged and his lawyer says the accuser was paid in a civil confidential nondisclosure settlement in 2023. all this as accusations loom over another one of trump's controversial choices. on wednesday, republicans on the ethics committee blocked the release of a draft report about trump's choice for attorney general, matt gaetz. the committee was investigating sexual misconduct allegations, including that he paid a high school girl who was 17 years old at the time. according to a lawyer for another woman who witnessed the encounter, and had gone to high school with the teenager, gaetz did not know she was under age. gaetz denies all of the allegations. ethics committee members say

they will revisit the issue two weeks from now after the thanksgiving break, which starts today. the democrats on the evenly divided committee have pushed for the report to be released now. joining us now nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard, and sam stein, managing editor at "the bulwark." vaughn, what more do we know about the allegations against pete hegseth and how is trump world responding to it? >> reporter: serious allegations that are laid out in this police report from october of 2017 from the monterey city attorney's office releasing it overnight, and in this police report, which ultimately did not lead to charges against pete hegseth, there are two competing accounts provided. pete hegseth making the case this was a consensual relationship, that took place that night, and noting that there was video surveillance from that hotel showing him and jane doe walking with their arms linked and her apparently from

that surveillance video which was not provided as part of the police report that she was smiling. the account though of the woman, the accuser here, is that pete hegseth, that very night, that to not only her, but another woman who she was with, gave off, quote, creepy vibes and se had little to drink at that point, she had a little champagne, did not have hard liquor but believed there was medication, a drug that was put into her drink to potentially make the events hazy, and then late that night, she was led back to this hotel room, where the sexual encounter took place, she said, told police she had told him no multiple times. it was several days later she went to the hospital and that is when police got involved at this point. so at this time, pete hegseth, of course, while he's up on capitol hill, his attorney releasing in a statement denying the allegations made against him, saying that the settlement

that was paid to this woman several years later was an agreement made between the two sides but in no way was an acknowledgement of the claims that were made against him, and tim parlatore, the attorney, maintaining innocence of pete hegseth. >> and, ryan, how are these allegations against hegseth playing on capitol hill, what are the concerns, how are republicans reacting? >> so, pete hegseth just left jd vance's office here on capitol hill, right by where i'm standing. and addressed these allegations against him for the first time since that police report was made public. and hegseth said i'll read his direct quote for you right now. as far as the media is concerned, i'll keep this very simple, the matter is fully investigated. i was completely cleared and that's where i'll leave it. not completely accurate in that the idea that he was completely cleared, but it is accurate that police did look at the evidence in front of them and decided not

to charge hegseth in that matter. as it pertains to the republicans that met with him today, he met with i think four or five different republicans, they all left that meeting for the most part believing his account of that story and many of them saying that he has the ability and the capacity to be the next secretary of defense. listen to what markwayne mullin of oklahoma had to say about his meeting with hegseth and his explanation about these allegations against him. >> i don't think there is any way in the world you can say this was a sexual assault. you can read the report yourself. you read it. you can see that it was two people partying with each other. >> reporter: and we pressed mullin what he means by the report being enough to exonerate hegseth in this matter, especially given the detail that the victim at the time described about her experience.

and mullins essentially argued that this is a he said/she said incident and both parties knew what they were getting into and therefore he believes hegseth's versions of events and that he specifically is talking to him about it, and he believes that he's being treated unfairly in this regard, especially given the fact that charges weren't filed. whether or not that's enough for other potentially skeptical republicans, especially when you marry it up to the fact that he doesn't have a tremendous amount of experience managing an organization the size of the pentagon, the biggest federal department underneath the federal government's budget, that remains an open question. the small group of senators he met with this morning, andrea, seemed to be impressed by their conversation and seemed to be inclined to support him. >> of course, also the controversial things he said about not having women in combat, other things that he has said about the military. so, ryan, what is next also for matt gaetz? the republicans, as you know

better than anyone, the ethics committee evenly divided 5-5, 5 republicans blocked the ethics committee report and unusually susie wild, the democratic leader on the committee came out and contradicted what the chair had said. they have strict rules about not saying anything when they come out. >> reporter: yeah, i mean, i think the battle over this ethics report is going to extend into december for sure. the ethics committee is going to meet again when they return after the thanksgiving holiday to have a conversation about the next steps forward. and the ethics committee could be in a situation, andrea, where their hand is forced. two democrats have already moved privileged resolutions on the house floor that would require a full vote of the house to make that report public. and you would have to imagine that every democrat would vote for that, and, of course, the margins being so tight, it would only take a handful of republicans to cross over and vote with democrats to make the

report public. and there are a number of republicans who won re-elections in districts that kamala harris also won that may not be inclined to stick their necks out and vote to protect someone like matt gaetz. that's a live ball. the broader question, though, is will it have any impact on the deliberations by the senators that are ultimately going to decide matt gaetz's fate. and there is a lot of concern about matt gaetz privately, we reported on that quite a bit, there is a big difference between private concern and public votes and this has been made very clear by donald trump that he views matt gaetz as a high priority, he wants to see him confirmed as the next attorney general, and at this point, as i said many times, there is not a single republican senator that says they're a no vote for matt gaetz. could that change if the ethics report comes out, could that change after a public hearing where he's asked tough questions by both republicans and democrats? yes, that is all possible.

but at this stage, matt gaetz still has a path to confirmation, andrea. >> although senator cornyn, and a few others did say that this could come out in other ways. that the witnesses could be subpoenaed by the judiciary committee, amy klobuchar, the democrat, clearly, but certainly said that. let me follow up with sam stein. the democrats on judiciary are going to push to find out about the testimony. whether they see the report itself and the conclusions, they're going to want to see the witnesses, what their statements were or even subpoena them to come in. >> yeah, and you see some republicans say the same thing, that they actually want to see some of the details of the report, possibly the subpoenas do exist. this is the one nomination frankly where you are seeing some pushback within the party. some skepticism that he, matt gaetz, has a chance for confirmation. has been put at under 50/50 by trump people according to my colleague's reporting this

morning and that's because there is a lot of baggage there. this report arguably would serve matt gaetz's interest to get it out now, rather than have it lingering over his head and there has been talk within trump world and their allies about whether that's the smart thing to do, to have him call for it to be released and then just go on the attack over it. he has a number of different questions hanging over his head beyond just this report. his suitability for the post, the idea he might be simply a tool for donald trump's political desires at the department of justice, he's on the hill telling senate republicans, look, i'm not here to do retribution campaign, but there are legitimate fears that is what he's going to be doing at the justice department if he ends up there. so this one is a particularly hazy confirmation fight. >> ryan nobles, vaughn hillyard, sam stein, thank you to all of you. and joining us now is democratic senator from rhode island, jack reed, the chairman of the armed services committee. mr. chairman, thank you very

much for being with us. first of all, let's talk about the defense secretary choice. your reaction to the choice of pete hegseth. >> well, there are very serious questions ranging from his expertise and capability to do manage the largest agency of the federal government. he has never done anything like that. today, of course, the revelations in detail of accusations of mistreatment of a woman, that has to be looked at. in fact, we have to begin really with a very thorough background check by the fbi to look at all these aspects of his behavior. and then we have to give him an opportunity frankly to explain himself. and that's something that should be done within the context of the confirmation proceedings. but they're serious questions about both his capability and

also his behavior and as you suggested too this correlation between his position about women in the military and at least the accusations by one woman that he does not treat them well. >> senator, hegseth was on the hill this morning as we were saying and there was a question shouted at him. i want to play that now. >> as far as the media is concerned, very simple, the matter was fully investigated and i was completely cleared and that's where i'll leave it. >> i think he was asked -- a little hard to hear, he was asked if there had been an assault in monterey, california, and he said no, i think, according to the notes we saw. in any case, hegseth said controversially women should not be in combat roles, that men are more capable, current defense secretary lloyd austin pushed back on that in an exclusive

interview with our pentagon correspondent, and so did former joint chiefs chairman mark milley, who was interviewed by stephanie ruhle. let's watch both of them. >> they do impact readiness. they make us better. they make us stronger. as the years have gone by, our women get better and stronger. >> don't lecture me about women in combat. women have been in combat and it doesn't matter if that 762 hits you in the chest, no one gives a [ bleep ] if as a woman or a guy who pulled that trigger, you're still dead. >> both of them very forceful, senator. >> yes. no, i think that women have made a substantial contribution to the readiness of the united states military forces. we couldn't operate without them. and they can function in combat, they can contribute to our readiness, and also to our ability to deter. we hope the enemies and if necessary defeat the enemies of the united states.

and in many respects too, combat today is not codified to several kilometers between one of the battlefront, if you will. it is a wide area in which women in many different capacities will be effectively in combat. many of the skills going forward also are those that require great intelligence and skills such as the space force and other highly tactical areas, that is part of our expertise and women can do that extremely well, as well as some men. we're in a situation, i think, where women are essential to our continued readiness. >> you have an example among your colleagues in tammy duckworth who sacrificed so much in her service in iraq. >> yes, her service is remarkable. as a helicopter pilot, she was shot down, lost both of her

legs. we have several of my colleagues both in the house and the senate, that have served and they have demonstrated the kind of courage, leadership that is remarkable and it would be very difficult to replace. >> i also want to get your reaction to donald trump's selection for national intelligence director. tulsi gabbard. she is now criticized by nikki haley. let's watch that. >> this is not a place for a russian, iranian, syrian, chinese sympathizer. are we comfortable with someone like that at the top of our national intelligence agency? >> she's controversial for secretly going to syria, meeting with bashar al assad, controversial for what she has said about russia's invasion of ukraine, justifying it and saying it was justified by ukraine wanting to get into nato, a lot of things like that. it is also that she hasn't had

any experience in intelligence and she would be having the final edit on the presidential daily brief as well as appointing the briefer, say nothing of running 18 intelligence agencies. what are you and your colleagues hearing from the intelligence community? >> i think they are really concerned because all the reasons you indicated. one, very little -- practically no experience in intelligence, and that is a very complicated field. 18 different agencies, multiple sources of intelligence that have to be evaluated. and her statements have been supportive of our antagonists. she made statements about the united states setting up secret biological weapon systems in ukraine, which is basically reinforcing russian disinformation and propaganda.

the russians don't need a cohort in the intelligence community of the united states. >> chairman of the armed services committee, senator jack reed, thank you as always. >> thank you. and up next, the biden administration pumps another $275 million into the ukraine war effort, amid uncertainty about donald trump's support for ukraine. trump's support for ukraine. throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. ["the glory of love" plays] giving. [♪ you've got to give a little ♪] [♪ take a little ♪] giving without expecting something in return. ♪ giving that's possible through the power of dell ai with intel. so those who receive can find the joy of giving back. ♪ [♪ that's the glory of love. ♪]

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criminal court, united nations institution, issued arrest warrants for israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu and former defense minister yoav gallant. and also a hamas military chief for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity. accusing netanyahu and gallant of human rights abuses in the gaza strip, with the death toll there now more than 44,000, including thousands of children according to local health officials. israel denies the accusations calling them antisemitic, absurd and false. joining us from tel aviv is raf sanchez. so, raf, neither israel nor the u.s. recognized the criminal court, but many of our allies in europe do. does this mean that netanyahu cannot go to the uk, cannot go to france, germany, for instance? what is the real impact there? >> reporter: it is ingly looking like that, andrea. we have the prospect here of an

israeli leader being unable, basically, to travel anywhere in western europe. as you said, there are 120 nations around the world that are signed up to the international criminal court, and that includes the uk, france, germany, canada, for example, and we are already hearing from both justin trudeau in canada, keir starmer in the uk, they will respect their obligations under the treaty of rome and by implication by extension that they will arrest benjamin netanyahu if he was to step foot on their soil. so that is a pretty shocking position for the leader of israel to be in, as you said. he's denouncing this decision, he's denouncing the court, he's saying this is an antisemitic move by a corrupt prosecutor and by biased judges. but, andrea, he now joins a lonely club along with vladimir putin of world leaders who are wanted for war crimes. the court says there is reasonable grounds to suspect

that both netanyahu and gallant used starvation as a weapon of war, that they deliberately blocked humanitarian aid getting into gaza. you might remember that immediately after october 7th, gallant actually said in front of a camera, no food, no water, no electricity is going into gaza. israel said that was rhetoric, in reality they fairly quickly did allow food in. but as you mentioned also the one surviving or potentially surviving member of hamas' top leadership also now under an arrest warrant issued for him. andrea? >> and just one clarification, because i noticed that the hamas leader who was also warranted here with this arrest warrant is mohamed deif and officials told me he was killed in june, they verified that. >> reporter: that's exactly right. so israel says deif is dead,

killed in an israeli air strike. hamas has never confirmed that. and the court is saying basically that they are unable to say for sure one way or another, so they're issuing that arrest warrant. >> he was the number two to sinwar at the time. >> reporter: that's right. >> who subsequently was also killed by the israelis. raf sanchez tracking all of this, thank you very much. today western officials are zbut despite ing ukraine's claim today. they say it was an experimental missile, not an icbm, a much longer range missile not used in the ukraine war. the u.s. is continuing to rush aid to ukraine announcing a $275 million package now to meet kyiv's quote urgent needs. this is partly in response to the more than 10,000 north korean soldiers who are now

reportedly in the russian region of kursk, where forces launched an offensive in august and are bracing for a russian counteroffensive. joining us now is alexander veinman, former national security council director for european affairs and senior adviser at vote vet. great to see you. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me on. >> the complex situation here is that some would say critics argue belatedly president biden has now this week alone given ukrainians approval to fire atacms, longer range missiles, into russian territory against russian bases that are firing against ukraine. it is a defensive measure, according to both the u.s. and ukraine. but it was the day after where more missiles started coming from russia and we certainly have seen the deployment of the north koreans. this is the first time that we know that russia's ally north korea, which has been arming them, weaponizing them, but is now giving them missiles is now

sending troops, which russia badly needs because of the high casualty rate for both sides of this war. >> yeah. well, it is hard to see how we get from here to anything approaching substantial peace talks or winding down the conflict. if anything, it seems to be expanding. the north koreans are operating inside russian territory in this area that the ukrainians seized kursk to try to beat back the ukrainian occupation of russian territory. the ukrainians did that to trade that territory for territory that russia is occupying in ukraine. this escalation that we're seeing right now with this medium range ballistic missile attack on dnipro is something new, it is a missile designed for nuclear use. they used a dummy warhead or some sort of payload that was clearly not nuclear. we know that much.

but this is a signal to the administration, the current administration, and more importantly to the future administration that russia wants the west to withdraw support. something that donald trump, jd vance are already inclined to do and they're trying to compel them with nuclear saber rattling. and this is why the decisions of the incoming administration, more so than even the outgoing administration, yes, they lifted the prohibition on defense contractors, they lifted the restriction on long range missile attacks inside russia, but this is mainly a conversation with the incoming administration. that's why it is absolutely critically important that qualified people are in the position to advise. so that would be the tulsi gabbards of the world, odni, that would be pete hegseth as the secretary of defense that has a critical role as a top adviser on national security and defense issues, that these are qualified capable people able to provide council that are not succumbing to misplaced fears or

overreacting to the signals that the russians are sending intentionally. it is the same challenges that existed before will exist the day that putin -- that trump comes into office and they'll probably amplify as our enemies look for opportunities to exploit. >> clearly the biden administration is trying to give zelenskyy some leverage at the bargaining table, assuming that this negotiation is going to be forced upon him and you will be at great disadvantage since the russians have been advancing really since last january, february, when our stalemate in congress refused to give them weapons at all, the europeans tried to give them $50 billion, but haven't given them the money that was frozen from russian assets, supposed to be unleashed. and now how do you feel about the president providing land mines, very controversial -- >> i think this is -- >> this has been banned by a treaty, by most of the nations of the world. >> but not the u.s.

i think the fact is that we're talking about an ally, a strategic partner of the u.s. that is fighting for its survival. it is an existential threat. they are the best to judge the deployment of the land mines. the citizens are the ones that would suffer the consequences of errant land mines, that's the whole idea is to limit the exposure of civilian population. and they need these capabilities to defend effectively. it is incumbent on us to be good allies and supporters and provide them with what they need. we obviously have been very tardy in our support, that is not just the recent phenomenon, that dates back to the very beginning of this war. right now there is a hard press to take just about everything that is not bolted down and transfer it over to ukraine to buy them some additional time. some months in which that ukrainians could hold back the russians and the europeans could step up in a more robust manner to defend themselves and that's

now a much, much more shaky proposition that the u.s. arsenal of democracy supporting ukraine, that's not likely to happen, europeans have to step up, ukrainians continue to fight on as long as they can, but it becomes a lot more difficult to see how this winds down, likely spills over with more european involvement to support ukraine. >> how concerned are you given what donald trump has said in the past and the people he's nominating? he hasn't nominated yet, but deciding to nominate for these key national security posts, rather than marco rubio, except for that final vote, strong supporter of ukraine. how concerned are you that ukraine is going to have to surrender or make big concessions? >> so, i'll be frank, my considerations are always foremost about u.s. national security. and these -- the selections that donald trump is making probably

puts pressure on not just ukraine, but our european allies. it emboldened our adversaries, russia, china, iran may be the only one that is a little more tempered because they know the threshold for military hostilities is so low. i think i'm concerned about these picks in general for u.s. national security. >> we have major breaking news, so i'm going to interrupt you because we now learned that matt gaetz, donald trump's choice to lead the justice department, is withdrawing his name from consideration. let's go right to nbc's vaughn hillyard. vaughn, what has happened here? >> reporter: andrea, this is in a social media post just moments ago, i'm just going to read it directly to you from matt gaetz, who, of course, was up on capitol hill yesterday meeting with senators, jd vance. this is from matt gaetz. i had excellent meetings with senators yesterday, i appreciate their thoughtful feedback and the incredible support of so many. with the momentum strong, it is clear my confirmation was

unfairly becoming a distraction to the critical work of the trump/vance transition. there is no time to waste on a protracted washington scuffle, thus i'll be withdrawing my name from conversation to serve as attorney general. trump's doj must be in place and ready on day one. i remain fully committed to see that donald j. trump is the most successful president in history. i will forever be honored the president trump nominated me to lead the department of justice and i'm certain he will save america. matt gaetz, eight days, andrea, after being nominated and his name being put into the fold for attorney general of the united states is dropping out. this all while there was debate within the house ethics committee over whether to release the ethics report, looking into the allegations that he had a sexual interactions with a minor, dating back several years ago, ultimately yesterday the house ethics committee was at a stand still, choosing not to release the report at this time.

but we know that senators including some republicans were interested in having the details of that the underlying allegations and evidence in the hands of the house ethics committee. matt gaetz turned heads when donald trump first picked him. they were on their way from washington, d.c., aboard trump's plane back here to mar-a-lago eight days ago, when the decision was made by donald trump, in flight, to nominate gaetz in a surprising fashion to lead the department of justice. of course, these were all allegations that the department of justice had looked into, people like speaker kevin mccarthy had publicly stated just this year that he thought that matt gaetz would eventually be in jail because of the underlying evidence that was in the hands of house ethics members, but now you fast-forward here, i think this is really the first time in which you see donald trump, who made the case that he learned a lot from his first administration, and wanted to surround himself by loyal

cabinet members, and came to a roadblock up on capitol hill. it was going to take just four republican senators to block his confirmation and there was hesitancy among many of them about not only the underlying allegations against him, but also the way in which he would potentially use and wield the power of the kept of justice. there was concern about political prosecutions, that he would go and not only remove individuals from within department of justice career prosecutors, but also try to go and investigate and convene grand juries to bring indictments against perceived enemies of donald trump. and now we're at the point where matt gaetz removed himself here from this confirmation process. >> and i think, just judging from my knowledge of the hill and what i was talking to people last night, i think some of those meetings with republicans did not go well. i think in particular senator cornyn, who as you know was up for leadership and highly respected, former, you know,

prosecutor, former judge i believe in texas told him everything was going to come out eventually and if everything is going to come out eventually, why not get it over now, why have it come out in a senate judiciary committee hearing, at a critical point, closer to the inaugural, after the inaugural, and have this stretched out and potentially influence other nominees. he was not that close to the president. it is not one of his most personal choices. president-elect, i should say. and amy klobuchar, judiciary committee member said last night, on our network to lawrence o'donnell that everything was going to come out, that they were going to subpoena -- senator blumenthal on that committee said we don't want to subpoena the women accusers because they -- we don't want to victimize them again, there is a way to get that testimony read into the record, their lawyer has been out there, doing interviews with us and others, about what they

said. and the one i guess exculpatory fact was that the lawyer said that the women -- the woman who was a witness to one of the sexual encounters with the 17-year-old said that while she knew the woman was 17 years old, because they had gone to high school together, that, in fact, gaetz did not know he thought she was 18, but now this tracing of the payments, $10,000, venmo, just to these women alone, to these two apparently, traced by "the new york times" and others and we have now gotten those documents as well, it is just piling up and that's the kind of accusations, you know, that just are not sustainable on a confirmation. vaughn, stand by. you have so much information on this. i want to bring in our justice correspondent ken dilanian joining us here on set. ken, aside from the personal factors, there is obviously a lot of controversy over his ability to run the justice

department over the fbi. we know donald trump said he wants to clean house there. don jr. said that, others in the circle. steve bannon certainly. he would be the hammer. but that said, this is the justice department. and the fbi has critical intelligence, counterintelligence, about our, you know, our enemies, terrorism, counterterrorism report, counterterrorism intelligence. all of the things you cover every day. >> and no doubt whoever comes next in this process will also be a person tasked with carrying out donald trump's stated vendetta against the justice department and the fbi, but there was really deep concern inside the fbi and the justice department about this particular nominee, in part because there are people who work over there who investigated him on a criminal basis, there are people whose job it is to investigate sex trafficking.

and they were confronted with the idea that a person accused of sex trafficking was going to be their boss. as you said, leaving aside that case, then to the qualifications issue, mr. gaetz had barely practiced law, had not held any job remotely akin to running a huge department like this, and as you said, this is not just the top legal officer in the united states, the attorney general is a very important national security figure, with access to some of the same intelligence that the president gets, with access to very secret information about counterintelligence investigations by the fbi, fisa warrants. there was great concern, even above and beyond the typical concern about what donald trump brings to the justice department, and, you know, you had todd blanche, donald trump's lawyer, elevated as the deputy, that is being greeted with a sigh of relief over there. he's a real lawyer who worked at the justice department. matt gaetz was the opposite of that. >> and the department of justice, the deputy known as the dag, has huge powers. more so than most ies, to

run prosecutions, intelligence, and all the like. senator patty murray is standing by. i want to bring her into this conversation. if you'll all stand by on this breaking news. democratic senator from washington state, the president pro tem of the senate, the most senior member of the senate, also chair of the appropriations committee, senator murray, sounds like the meetings on capitol hill did not go well for matt gaetz. he's frankly known as and despised by many people in both parties, including his own party, in the house, but also in the senate, for things he has said about many senators, many house members, but senator tillis and several others who are voting on him, and senator cornyn. >> of course, and i'm not surprised by this news because of what you just said. but i do think it goes to the larger point here. i served in the senate for a long time. and served with numerous presidents from both parties.

and they always vetted who they send over to head these really critical agencies. we need people who are running these agencies, who are capable of doing it, who understand the policies, and understand the implications. and you don't just send anybody over that happens to be on tv to run an agency. you need qualified people who cannot have information in their background that could be used against them. blackmailing or anything else. you need people who know the policies and you need people who really understand the implications of the incredible importance of there being a secretary of health education, services, all of our different agencies, and certainly this doesn't surprise me because we have an administration coming in that doesn't vet their nominees before they get to us. >> i know we're going to focus on matt gaetz and this remarkable withdrawal. but there is also the politics of all of these confirmations

and all of these choices. and so much is at stake. you brought up health and human services which is rfk jr., of course. and do you have concerns now that the mar-a-lago white house, the president-elect, in reacting to this withdrawal, will believe that, okay, critics have gotten one of his choices, but this will make it easier for him to confirm hegseth for the pentagon, rfk jr. for hhs, and importantly also tulsi gabbard for dni, leading 18 intelligence agencies which she has no qualification. >> well, one interpretation could be, we have a trophy, we can get rid of that and do everybody else. that would be the wrong message to take from this. the right message to take is that we need to vet each one of these candidates, and look at them clearly. let's take rfk. he is someone who is a

conspiracy theorist when it comes to vaccines. we have decades of experience in this country knowing that ing kids are vaccinated so they don't get polio, mumps, measles, rubella, serious implications for healthcare for the future of our country. not vetting these candidates and having the american public know they can trust the person who is overseeing our health, to make sure that we don't fire scientists who are doing research, that we don't tell people that they're not going to have their insurance covered for vaccines anymore, or that our kids are going to be unsafe or the next pandemic that comes down the line, we don't have researchers in place to make sure we protect people's health. every one of the nominations you mentioned need to be vetted, we need to know their back ground, we need to know they have the right policies and it is our job as united states senators, democrat and republican, to be responsible for the votes we take on these nominations. i think the message from this

current nomination being pulled is that we are taking our job seriously and we will continue to do so. >> but you're going to be in the minority after january 20th -- earlier in january when the new congress is sworn in, first week in january, i believe, so how will you assert your power over people like, you know, hegseth and tulsi gabbard and rfk jr.? and do you have concerns, i mean, it used to be, it sounds quaint now, when i was covering the bill clinton white house, two nominees for attorney general were rejected because of nanny issues, employees were not documented and paid properly. paid off the books, whatever it was. and that was considered a serious enough offense to have them withdraw. be withdrawn. now we're talking about people not just matt gaetz but others

like the nominee for secretary of defense who have allegations of sexual misconduct against them, and have to be investigated. but none of these people have been vetted by the fbi because the president-elect decided that this would be done privately by his team and not engage the fbi about who he's very suspicious to prevent them and at least come up with these things. this -- the accusations against matt gaetz would have been clearly presented to the president-elect if they had done that properly and signed the ethics agreements. >> you started your question by asking me what can i do as a democrat. one of the things we have to do is make sure these candidates go through the vetting process in the senate. and we have a process for that. it is our committee hearings, we bring the nominees before them, we ask questions, the committees need to look at their background, especially now since we know this administration does not. and i think it is republicans who will be in the majority and

will hold the responsibility to make sure we do that on each one of these nominees. that is really critical moving forward. >> before i let you go what about recess appointments? can't these people be poid appo for as long as two years as acting? >> the answer to that is why would republicans be afraid to vote on these candidates if they believe they're qualified and don't have anything in their background that makes them unacceptable to them to vote on. we're not blocking them from a nomination, there is no reason to have any recess appointments, bring them up, republicans should be responsible for voting for them and they have the opportunity to do that. >> senator patty murray, thank you so much for being with us today. >> you bet. and ryan nobles, let's go back to you on capitol hill. because this is the kind of withdrawal which saves arguably the president-elect more embarrassment from this nomination and saves matt gaetz

the embarrassment of seeing the details in this ethics committee report come out because as according to senator cornyn yesterday, and others who we met with, the details are going to come out one way or the other. >> reporter: and they may still come out. i don't think this is a guarantee they won't. perhaps they won't be pursued as vigorously as they would have been if he were the nominee for attorney general. i was on the air maybe 25 minutes ago and told you there was still a path to confirmation for matt gaetz and this just dropped like a bomb here on capitol hill. the idea that he has now decided to withdraw from consideration as the next attorney general. every single senator that i've seen as i've walked from where i was in the russell office building to where i am here, not a single one of them seemed to be aware of the information. they were finding out about it just like the rest of us through matt gaetz's x feed. this was not something necessarily communicated to the rank and file senators charged with the confirmation.

and it is just a complete 180 in terms of the language and the posture we had seen from gaetz and from republican senators about the pursuit of this nomination. we saw the president-elect donald trump just a couple of days ago, when he was in texas, saying that he was still committed to his nomination and did not want to see gaetz remove removed from that position and gaetz last night, after leaving meetings, here all day long, seemed upbeat and positive about the prospect he had to become the next attorney general, despite the headwinds he was facing and despite the real concern that many of these republicans were expressing privately. but i do think what is important to point out here is that we long have been asking the question, will there be a scenario where senate republicans stand up to donald trump? and i think just by reading between the lines of matt gaetz's statement, he describes his potential nomination as a

distraction, something that would take away from donald trump's administration in its early days, that certainly reads as resistance from senate republicans to his confirmation. if he thought he had the opportunity too sail through confirmation, there would be no distraction. this would not be a problem. and so i think this is the first sign and albeit perhaps it was a very serious trial balloon that donald trump sent to see and get the temperature of senate republicans, but this is certainly without a doubt the first sign that they are willing to stand up to him if they do not think that an action that he is taking is appropriate. so, how far that goes, i mean, you can make the argument that gaetz is as far from that as possible, but at least it shows the degree of backbone that i think many were questioning whether or not senate republicans had. >> and it may be that he is --

he was by all accounts despised on capitol hill by any and all republicans and democrats, having very few allies. i want to read from the president-elect on truth social, a new post. i greatly appreciate the recent efforts of matt gaetz in seeking approval to be attorney general. he was doing very well, but at the same time did not want to be a distraction for the administration for which he has much respect. matt has a wonderful future and i look forward to watching all of the great things he will! no point -- no mention, ryan, of putting him in some other slot where he might be less controversial. i want to bring in joyce vance, former u.s. attorney to talk about matt gaetz and the impact that he would have had on the justice department. now, it is clear that whoever is going to be, you know, leading the justice department instead of matt gaetz is going to carry out the president's wishes or try to. and it could be todd blanche, who is the designated person for

the deputy, very powerful position, and highly respected lawyer. joyce? >> you know, the nomination of matt gaetz signified something that i think we all knew in advance, that donald trump is ready to go to war with the justice department. ready to undercut the mission and the work by career employees across the country whose job is to protect the american people. because gaetz was never a serious nominee and that's how he was perceived inside of the justice department. there was shock. there was concern. but there was never a belief that someone like this could actually be confirmed, someone who was credibly investigated for sexual assault, was not seen as someone who could lead the justice department. i think the problem is this, andrea. now all eyes at the justice department and elsewhere will be on the next pick because even with gaetz stepping aside, there is no indication that trump is any less serious about his mission to take apart the justice department, the real question is whether the senators

will continue to use their constitutional responsibilities of advice and consent to protect the institutions. >> i want to go back to ken dilanian for a moment. one of the things at issue is what will happen to chris wray. he has a longer term, ten-year term, but indicated to some people he was willing to step aside, knowing that donald trump wanted to fire him. but him being there might protect the fbi from what could be down the road, depending who does end up leading justice. would this potentially stop him, prevent him from resigning before the inauguration? >> it is hard to know the answer to that. but i do get the sense that chris wray does not want to be fired. if he gets the sign that donald trump wants it replace him, we saw a tweet by -- a post by jd vance suggesting they were interviewing candidates for fbi

director, if wray gets that impression and i believe he has that impression, they will plan to have him move out before there is some kind of disruptive firing, the way there was with jim comey, which is how chris wray got his job in the first place. >> chris wray was chosen by donald trump. >> he was chosen been donald trump, he's a life long republican and did his best to keep his head down during the trump administration. and he obviously fell out of favor as the fbi was pursuing these people counsel investigations. he had to sign off on the fbi search of donald trump's home at mar-a-lago. so, that's when donald trump began to lose enthusiasm for chris wray. but it is bigger than that. chris wray is an institutionalist. he believes in the fbi. donald trump and the people around him are saying the fbi is corrupt and unethical and needs to be blown up. and so that raises real concerns that they bring in a figure like kash patel to lead the fbi, which would be a matt gaetz part two. >> highly controversial, former pentagon official, he couldn't

go to the cia because gina haskell then the director of cia said she would quit if he were put at the cia. he is someone who is really controversial in washington and elsewhere. mimi rocca talked to me about todd blanche who is the successful -- successful attorney. he was the losing defense attorney on the trump case. but now is named to take over as deputy attorney general. and that would be perhaps the easiest way to just move him up. >> yeah. and, look, andrea, i'm going to say something that some people won't like because i'm not here to vouch for todd blanche, but i do know him personally and more importantly i grew up with him in the southern district of new york. so i literally know what he has been taught about the department of justice. does that mean that under the

weight of donald trump that won't waver? i can't sit here and say that. but i know that todd blanche, not as defense attorney, which was a different role, but todd blanche as a leader of the justice department knows what the justice department is supposed to be, that it is supposed to be the prosecutor of the people, it is supposed to prosecute violent crime, fraud, political corruption, and i worked with todd on those cases, i know that he likes those cases, that he believes in the mission of the department of justice to do the right thing in the right way for the right reasons. and i do hope and believe that he knows that, and that he will continue that once he rises to the occasion in that role. i know i'm going to get a lot of blowback on that, because there are a lot of people understandably who have no faith anymore in our institutions, or

in the guardrails holding. but i think if there is someone who can be that person in this time, and i don't mean resist everything that donald trump wants him to do, that won't be his job, and that's not what we're here to ask for, we're here to ask for someone to hold on to the justice department as it is meant to be doing the right thing, not a political thing, not carrying out retribution. and the last thing i'll say is that he has experience as a prosecutor. for all the stuff about matt gaetz, he doesn't know how the department of justice runs. literally the day to day, about the approvals you need, what the prosecutors do, about what the analysts do, and that is so critically important when you're taking over an enormous institution like this. todd knows that. >> and, ken, i know you got to run, you do got so much to do rt now, but that's the key to this. not just the controversy, the

sex accusations, but the lack of experience and qualifications of many of these people. >> that's right. and the belief by matt gaetz the justice department was corrupt, the special counsel investigations were political. it will be interesting to see who is the next pick for attorney general, somebody in matt gaetz's camp or todd blanche's camp. >> thank you. vaughn, if we can briefly talk about what's next as far as you know. joyce, i'm sorry, joyce vance, let's talk briefly, very briefly about the justice department now after this extraordinary experience with matt gaetz. >> well, mimi makes a great point about what comes next, andrea, talking about todd

blanche's essentially having grown up inside of the justice department. in 98% of doj's cases, he's somebody you want, somebody with experience who understands the mission. the question involves the other 2% of cases and whether he will sign off on partisan prosecutions, whether he'll be willing to help the former president reward his friends and harm his enemies. i think we're watching new guardrails, hopefully, be put in place whether blanche's former colleagues like mimi rocah making it clear they intend to keep an eye on what he does, whether that will help to keep the justice department on track. i mean, it speaks really to how many of our norms have fallen by the way side, that that's the expectation we're hoping will keep things on track, but nonetheless, it is important for someone like blanche and trump's other nominees who are doj folks to understand that if they stray from that path, their colleagues will be watching and calling them to account. >> joyce vance, thank you so much. and thanks to mimi rocah, ken

dilanian, vaughn hillyard, ryan nobles and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." "chris jansing reports" starts after a short break. is jansing s after a short break. better than their old dish soap, removing 99% of grease. that's why only dawn is trusted to save wildlife.

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