hi, everyone. it is 4:00 here in new york. when donald trump's first pick for attorney general fox news fixture loyal trump ally and florida man matt gaetz went down in flames, rejected by just enough senate republicans to doom his nomination, donald trump turned to the next best thing, another fox news fixture, loyal trump ally and florida woman. pam bondi is his second pick to lead the justice department. worth note sheg brings significantly more legal experience to the table than matt gaetz, having been the ag of the country's third largest state for eight years. that's not why trump is nominating her. pam bondi has been by trump's side through thick and thin. in 2013, she was florida's attorney general, she ignored

nearly two dozen complaints about the for profit trump university. declining to join a multistate lawsuit after the trump foundation donated $25,000 to a pac supporting bondi. it was an illegal donation, by the way, trump had to pay a $2500 fine for it back in 2016. the incident led stephen colbert to say this. >> one thing's for sure, pam bondi is the only person in the world ever to make money from trump university. now, i don't know other than donald trump, other than donald trump. >> bondi went on to defend trump in his first impeachment trial. she pedaled the baseless election fraud claims trump used to try to overturn the 2020 election, by his side at his criminal trial in manhattan and through it all, even when she was florida's ag, she was a fox news personality, pedaling all sorts of right wing talking points and conspiracies.

>> murderers, rapists from priso our country, it should scare and terrify everyone in our country. >> we have evidence of cheating, but we are still on the ground in pennsylvania, i'm here right now and we are not going anywhere until they declare we won pennsylvania. >> pam, did you just say fake ballots? >> there could be. that's the problem. if they're letting -- >> do you have any -- do you have -- have you heard stories of, you know, ballots that are fake and if so, just tell us what you know. >> well, we know that ballots have been dumped. there were ballots found early on. >> this is just one big press conference, trying to smear donald trump, trying to hurd donald trump. do i want to see him in jail? absolutely not. i wouldn't put it past this judge, though. and president trump should be allowed to be out on the campaign trail every single day. this trial shouldn't even be going until after the election. >> listen, all the rights here,

i'm a prosecutor, former prosecutor. all the rights here go to the defendant because it is his liberty at stake. and that has not been happening in this courtroom. this case should have never, ever been brought. >> pam bondi also brings with her some eyebrow raising baggage. "the new york times" reports she's a lobbyist for a powerhouse republican firm for which she represented major corporations and foreign governments with interests before the u.s. government. among the clients for which she was registered to lobby were major companies including amazon, general motors and uber. on that last client, usa today reports she ied in 2018 and 2019. the state department has strong relations with qatar, but the department also reported significant human rights abuses in the country. including the enforced disappearance of social media users and human rights

advocates, arrests, gender-based violence and restrictions on free investigation. expression. that's where we start the hour with andrew weizman and msnbc political analyst david jolly and with me at the table msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. it is good to see you all. lisa, what do we need to know about pam bondi? >> first thing about pam bondi, when talking about her career as a lobbyist, they are no stranger to donald trump. it is where susie wiles built her career and so in turning to pam bondi, you can see the potential hand of susie wiles all over that nomination. but the other thing that i think folks should understand about pam bondi is that her experience in government is extensive even though her experience with the department of justice is relatively zero. she never worked at the department of justice before.

on the other hand, she was a prosecutor for 26 years altogether, 18 years in the hillsborough county prosecutor's office in florida, and then another eight years as florida attorney general. and then that in that respect, from a resume perspective alone, what she reminds me of is someone that i don't think anyone saw coming in this conversation, which is janet reno, who was bill clinton's attorney general, having spent multiple terms as a state attorney of miami-dade county. that means that pam bondi, if she's confirmed, will be all the more reliant on those people that donald trump is going to staff the department with who do have that justice department todd blanche, two people who have the two traits trump was allegedly most looking for, competence and loyalty, is a dangerous 1-2 punch. >> and i want to know how you think that's going to play out at doj. i have to give the rights to david jolly as a florida man to comment on the florida woman and what you know about her based on her time as ag?

>> sure. and i know pam bondi, i know matt gaetz. i would tell you these are two very different nominations. and we should breathe a little sigh of relief, the strong difference between matt gaetz and pam bondi are this. pam bondi is qualified to run the department. lisa is right, no doj experience, but eight years as attorney general, state of florida, she's imminently qualified. she's also a very likable person. i say that not because i have a personal friendship, but democrats and republicans alike consider her to be a professional. i think she'll do very well in the nomination hearing. she hasn't been accused of sexual misconduct or sex trafficking. what this sets up is fascinating, and it is this, this nomination hearing now becomes specifically not about the fitness of the nominee, like we were discussing with matt gaetz, but about donald trump's view of the department of justice, and about pam bondi's willingness to execute on donald trump's agenda. now this goes very quickly to do

you think that the department of justice should be an arm of the executive office of the president? do you think that if donald trump suggests you prosecute a specific individual that you have a duty to the president to honor that wish? and we have seen this game before on capitol hill. pam bondi cannot answer those questions any other way but how donald trump wants those questions answered and so what -- however likable she is and however qualified she is, we have a national conversation about whether or not donald trump's attorney general truly is intended to execute on an enemies list, to investigate the media, what are the other priorities of an attorney general pam bondi? i believe she will sail through the nomination process on a strictly partisan line vote. that partisan line vote will be because that this will be donald trump's new view of unitarian executive using the department of justice as an arm of the executive office of the president. there will be some hard questions for pam bondi, no question. you bring up the relationship

with brian ballard, one of the most powerful florida lobbyists, not having a d.c. firm until trump gets elected and sets up shop in d.c. and populates his firm with wiles and bondi and other people, close to donald trump. you can follow pam bondi's career from a relatively mainline republican and donald trump hits the scene and she is part of team trump and over the last eight years has demonstrated that loyalty, that willingness to really do anything he asks, and raises some really hard questions then. do you think the election was stolen in 2020? what about those comments in pennsylvania? i think this will be a hard confirmation hearing for pam bondi. she'll get through it, but i think it is going to open up the lens a little bit to what four years of donald trump's doj is intended to look like. >> i wonder if you agree with david jolly's analysis of what that confirmation hearing looks like that pam bondi has no choice but to say what it is donald trump wants to hear. in some ways, that might be more

transparent than her going through that confirmation hearing and saying, no, of course it should exist as a separate and independent branch, of course it should have its own sense of oversight. i wonder if susie wiles, for example, is able to say, let's get through this confirmation hearing, let's keep things status quo, and then wink, wink, we know how you feel about this. >> yeah, i don't know whether she is going to be completely candid about what her plans are and how she views the executive, but i think that what we do know right now is all of her prior statements and her record and i think one thing that is important is for our viewers not to sort of recalibrate simply because there is a new normal that she is not matt gaetz. that's not the standard for

whether somebody should be the attorney general of the united states. it is also not the standard that you have been a state prosecutor for many, many years. absolutely she has that experience, but the real issue is, i think, sort of the second part of what david was talking about, which is, one, does she believe in that facts and law are what is supposed to govern the department of justice and all decision-making? two, do you think it is right for the president to say who you should prosecute and who you should not prosecute? and so, questions like do you believe there is a stolen election in 2020 are totally appropriate ones. when she talks about going after, you know, political enemies of donald trump, is that the appropriate role for the department of justice? she shouldn't have to walk them back because that is the

critical issue. it is not whether you are matt gaetz who is completely unqualified, it is not whether you have serious sexual criminal investigation that there is a report that you're trying to not make public, and so i think she does have a lot to answer for. and on the $25,000, that you began the show with, there i think there is two issues. obviously she and donald trump say there was no quid pro quo, that is certainly an area worthy of questioning, to see whether that in fact is true, but my issue with that is let's assume there was no quid pro quo, that's a big assumption. let's assume that. what prosecutor takes $25,000 from somebody who is under investigation that just simply raises a specter of really, really poor ethics and really poor judgment. and that is the foundation of

what you -- the opposite of what you want in the tiger of the united attorney general of the united states. i think this is going to be a searing investigation during the confirmation process. whether she gets through or not, that's not my area. i'm hear from a legal analyst, and i think there is a lot of questions to ask. >> well, to the point you made, andrew about her prior statements, i want to play something for all of you that pam bondi said back in august of 2023. take a listen. >> when republicans take back the white house, you know what's going to happen, the department of justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted, the bad ones. the investigators will be investigated because the deep state, last term for president trump, they were hiding in the shadows, but now they have a spotlight on them, and they can all be investigated. >> what does that mean? >> i think we should take pam bondi at her word, until she

disavows that during her confirmation hearing or something else. i think there is at least a will there to begin to do an investigation as she says of the people like jack smith or state prosecutors who have been involved in prosecuting donald trump. and i think it is fair to ask her during those confirmation hearings what would you be investigating these people for? what federal criminal statutes do you believe that they could have violated? we're not asking you to violatet on television in august of 2023 and said those people should be investigated, what were you thinking could be the nature of that investigation and does that constitute or rise to the level of criminal activity. that's a fair question. to both andrew and david's point, there is a difference between qualifications and fitness. competence and fitness are not the same thing. and i would say that fitness for this office includes one's character and is not just a

question of being devoid of allegations of sexual misconduct. the character is also a question of will you follow the facts and fall the law wherever they take you, even if they're not where donald trump plotted he wants you to go. >> there is a clip making the rounds again, it is from 2016, and it was pam bondi being interviewed by anderson cooper right after the pulse massacre. take a listen and we'll talk about it on the other side. >> i want to ask you, i saw you the other day saying that anyone who attacks the lgbtq community, our lgbtq community, you said, will be gone after with the full extent of the law. >> exactly right. >> i talked to a lot of gay and lesbian people here yesterday who are not fans of yours and said they thought you were being a hypocrite, you for years -- you have gone after gay people, said that in court that gay people simply by fighting for marriage equality were trying to do harm to the people of florida, to induce public harm,

i believe was the term you used in court. do you really think you're a champion of the gay community? >> let me tell you, when i was sworn in as attorney general, i put my hand on the bible and was sworn to uphold the constitution of the state of florida. that's not a law. that was voted into our state constitution by the voters of florida. that's what i was defending. it had nothing to do -- i never said i don't like gay people. that's ridiculous. >> but is it hypocritical to portray yourself as a champion of the gay community when -- i'm just reflecting what a lot of gay people have told me. >> i'm not portray ing myself a anything other than trying to help human beings who lost their lives who are behind us now in hospital beds, who have family members, who aren't getting the services they need. >> i play that sound to ask you about what it says about actions and words aligning. >> yeah. i remember that interview very

specifically. i would say this, pam bondi's rise to florida politics it kind of accelerated very quickly from a local prosecutor to state attorney general. and in some ways the state attorney general campaign made her and there were a lot of stumbles along the way. in fact, very honestly they kept her off the trail a little bit and ran a tv heavy campaign in the state of florida where she was easily elected. and i think the disconnect you saw there, look, every prosecutor would understand sometimes you have to enforce the law even if it is different from your own positions, but the stumble you saw there could actually reappear, i think, in a senate confirmation hearing, whether or not she is strong enough to handle the grilling about her own inconsistencies and some of those inconsistencies will now manifest themselves in a contemporary issues like we have been discussing. some of the statements we have seen, was she on the payroll for some type of trump enterprise at the time, it is known she did work for even up to maybe now

some of trump's legal defense funds or some of his outside interests, what was the overlapping interest there and when she gets pressed, can she handle it differently than she was handled by anderson cooper in that environment. it was a terrible moment for pam there. i also think there is something as fascinating about this. in 2017, this speaks to what i've been discussing her ability to handle a confirmation hearing and the $25,000 check. they was considered for a nomination in 2017. but the politics were so different, even though donald trump had just landed on the scene, that she was the one considered probably unconfirmable. they weren't sure in 2017 she could get through a senate confirmation hearing and therefore she wasn't nominated because she wasn't ready for primetime or perhaps this question around ethics of the $25,000 contribution. we're so far past that now eight years later, given the gaetz and hegseth nominations and otherwise. i think what this will

ultimately come down to, i love lisa's comparison to janet reno in terms of qualifications, but in terms of how she will perform, it is bill barr. she'll be the bill barr of this administration and test every boundary that bill barr tested for trump. the question is there a line she won't cross like bill barr faced or will she go all the way? >> andrew, lisa, thank you so much for getting us started. david, you're sticking with me. when we come back, the latest addition to the team trump, robert f. kennedy jr. once called his new boss a racist demagogue. we'll show you how he's now trying to walk that one back. she had been stripped of her committee assignments in an earlier era on capitol hill. marjorie taylor greene is back, she's been picked by her colleagues to work with the brand-new department of government efficiency. how they expected to work together, that remains to be seen. and later, matt gaetz may be on the sidelines for now. but will any of the other dangerous and unqualified

cabinet picks be too much for republican senators to stomach? all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after this. d more whe "deadline: white house" continues after this introducing new eroxon gel, the first fda-cleared ed treatment available without a prescription. eroxon gel is clinically proven to work within ten minutes, so you and your partner can experience the heights of intimacy. new eroxon ed treatment gel. —no peeking. —okay. okay. ♪♪ open. ♪♪ ♪♪

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of giving back. freshly surfaced audio from 2016 first published by cnn reveals donald trump's pick to lead the department of health and human services rfk jr. once compared his future boss to adolf hitler. and trump supporters to nazis. listen to kennedy's searing comments that came during trump's first candidacy for president. >> one of the things that you write so beautifully, and your

stuff is so fun to read, but you write about trump, quote, the way that you build a truly vicious nationalist movement is to wed a relatively small core of belligerent idiots to a much larger group of opportunists and spineless travelers whose primary function is to turn a blind eye to things. we may not have that many outright nazis in america, but we have plenty of cowards and boot lickers. and he's not like hitler. hitler had a plan, you know, hitler was interested in policy, he was interested in -- he had a historical view. i don't think trump has any of that. i think he's like noncompos noncompos mentis. >> just like vance reversed course on his once harsh criticism, rfk jr. attempted to brush off his comments in a

statement today, saying like many americans i allowed myself to believe the mainstream media's distorted dystopian portrait of president trump. joining us reverend al sharpton, "new york times" editorial board member and msnbc political analyst maura gay, david jolly still with us. spineless fellow travelers and now he's one among them. >> oh, gosh, it is one of a parade of individuals. the comments that actually come to mind are nikki haley's as well, because we had such whiplash from all of these republicans who in the days, especially after jan 6th, had nothing but horrible things to say about donald trump and now have changed their tune. i think in many ways this is actually the number one problem that america is going to face

right now when donald trump returns to the white house, which is, yes, elections have consequences, and i may personally disagree with much of the policy that the republican platform has come to embrace, but the bigger issue that we have is actually that so many of the people that donald trump is filling the government with is going to be, you know, people who are loyal to him, not to the country. and, you know, we have yet to really fully kind of piece apart what that is going to mean for the day to day lives of americans. and i think it is very clear that there are some folks who are concerned about the campaign of retribution, for example, that donald trump has promised, people who have really, you know, put their neck out, people like liz cheney, prosecutors, that's one bucket, but the day to day lives of americans are going to be impacted in ways we don't fully understand yet. and, of course, rfk front and

center, came out of a pandemic, you know, what this means, we don't know. we don't know what the capacity is too of these individuals to come in and actually oversee an agency and manage that agency. a lot of these people are not managers, so the changes may take some time to implement. how much they can do before the midterms is really what the question is, because there are no guardrails at the moment. if the midterm elections go in the direction of the democrats, they may have some guardrails. how much can someone like rfk do for better or worse in two years, we're about to find out. >> rev? >> i think that clearly when you see the language here, let's not act like this is just some political difference. it is a stretch to say that someone is like hitler. i've been controversial a lot of my career, lies written about me

being controversial. but you would not call somebody that you disagree with hitler unless you really felt extreme. so you have to ask yourself, what is the judgment of jd vance and rfk jr. if they felt that extreme, that they could call them hitler and how they get all the way back here. and the second question is what is the way donald trump deals with people if he is all right with people that have called him hitler? he's comfortable with that. i can't imagine my ever dealing with anybody, particularly appointing them to something that called me hitler. so, is he that transactional in playing with the public or is he not offended by this? i can't understand how they could be that extreme and all of a sudden have an overnight conversion and i can't understand how he can get comfortable with it so quickly unless there is some thing here

today both sides are not saying. >> david jolly, over to you, but i also want to be clear that rfk jr. just adds to the long list of one trump critics turned supporters. >> i'm a never trump guy. i never liked him. >> i got the easiest job in politics. all i have to do is go out and remind the american people that donald trump was the president of peace and prosperity. >> i bet you all know, you all have friends, you all have friends that are thinking about voting for donald trump, friends do not let friends vote for con artists. >> by giving voice to everyday americans, president trump has not just transformed our party, he has inspired a movement. >> donald, you're a sniffling coward. >> god bless donald j. trump. >> he's a race-baiting, xenophobic religious bigot. he doesn't represent my party.

he doesn't represent the values that the men and women who wear the uniform are fighting for. >> this is the toughest guy i think i ever met. he's the modern version of teddy roosevelt. >> okay. so, i guess david jolly, political sm. this is not that. and the reason it matters is the point that mara raced, one of loyalty, the depths of that loyalty and what that loyalty to the man rather than the constitution could mean for american citizens. >> if your skin is crawling, you're not alone. that is so unsettling. i think why it is so insightful and rfk jr.'s comments on that podcast, jd vance's tweets or text messages where he questioned whether or not trump was hitler, what we see there is the independent judgment of these individuals, it is clear in those moments, clear to hear

rfk's rift there, he's speaking from the heart. jd vance reflecting his independent judgment. lindsey graham reflecting his independent judgment. but then they engage in this negotiation for what they can get out of capitulating to donald trump and abandoning their own independent thought and independent judgment and falling in line. so the danger becomes what are they negotiating to get? often with themselves. for lindsey graham, he saved his political career. ted cruz similarly. but for jd vance, he got the vice presidency and for rfk jr. he got -- he likely has the hhs job because they have things they want to do. rfk jr. wants to remove fluoride from america's water. he says, okay, i'm going to abandon my independent judgment, my independent exercise of thought, i'm going to resign over so i can have the power to remove fluoride from water or if it is in the case of pam bondi, so i can have the power to be attorney general and execute against an enemies list that that's what the cost is and the job. the danger here is many of the

people are now going to be serving in office. they're going to make it through. and the nation is going to look very different now under a trump second administration. >> david jolly, thank you for your expertise and for joining us. rev and mara are sticking with me. marjorie taylor greene tapped to lead a made up house subcommittee that will work with the department of government efficiency, an agency led by elon muvg sk and vivek ramaswam. what is she doing there? we'll try to figure that all out next. s she doing there? we'll try to figure that all out next then we learned about bulkamid. an fda approved non-drug solution for our condition. it really works, and it lasts for years. it's been the best thing we've done for our families. call 800-983-0000 to arrange an appointment with an expert physician to determine if bulkamid is right for you. results and experiences may vary. we really don't want people to think of feeding food like ours is spoiling their dogs. good, real food is simple. it looks like food,

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a few years ago, representative marjorie taylor greene was removed from her congressional committee assignments for controversial and pretty abhorrent comments like saying the parkland high school shooting was staged, calling the september 11th attacks a ax, and amplifying conspiracy theories like . come next year, greene is set to lead a house subcommittee that will work with the department of government efficiency headed by musk and ramaswamy. what does this mean? we have no idea. but as representative alexandria ocasio-cortez wrote, this is good, she barely shows up and doesn't do the reading. it is like giving someone an unplugged controller. joining our conversation, punch bowl news senior congressional reporter melanie zenona. what do you make of this? >> that quote is funny, but i do

think there is some truth to what she's saying. let me peel back the curtain for how on how the committees work. it is a very powerful and important committee, that is considered where you would put the work horses versus the house oversight committee where you put the show horses. leadership in both parties will usually stack that committee with some of the firebrands, a way where they can let off steam, and i think in this case this is another example where marjorie taylor greene will hold a bunch of hearings and draw a lot of attention, but i'm not sure she's going to be holding all that much. it is important to note that the appropriations committees are the ones that actually do the work of authorizing and doling out spending, so she can go after the government agencies from her perch on the subcommittee, but she doesn't have the power or the authority from that committee to do any spending cuts. so, yes, there will be investigations, she will i'm sure fund-raise off of this, she's going to have a line into this new administration, she's

going to work with vivek ramaswamy and elon musk, she'll do lots of high profile meetings and that sort of thing, and she will have a critical voice being so close to donald trump in this congress. in terms of what i'm expecting from this committee, not a whole lot. >> i want to read you some more from aoc. absolute dying at those two now getting assigned the privilege of working with mtg, that's actually hilarious, enjoy, fellas, very prestigious post you have there. >> she is so good, what she says and how she handles it, aoc. she says it all. they almost deserve each other. if they were not talking about serious issues. but they're not in a serious enough position for us to panic. >> world's richest person dealing with qanon lady. >> and one of the most

celebrated deniers of the fact she doesn't even agree the sun shines. the conversation they have we should make a reality show of elon talking with mtg. imagine that conversation. and it is furtherance of how they made a mockery of government. i think that no one has really dived it in a deep enough way that this whole trump pre into the inaugural area or pre him taking office, how he has mocked the whole united states government system. putting a guy that was suspected of under age sex buying as an attorney general, another guy with sexual assault as the head of department of defense, having the richest guy in the world who is running around with spacex with mtg is almost like he's mocking us. he makes us look ludicrous to the world.

>> let me add something to your list there, which is creating a government subcommittee in the interest of creating government efficiency. like, the equation doesn't quite work. >> well, it is like with this -- did this idea come from the onion and from the comedian or george orwell? it is, right, the first thing that you do also i think for a lot of us as journalists, we covered many what we call principles, they could be mayors, governors. there are a lot of favors to return after elections and when you don't know quite what to do with somebody, who you owe a favor to, sometimes you create a commission and you just say, you know, go solve some problems, be my brain trust. and they'll give you a bunch of recommendations and often the principle will ignore the recommendations. we don't know what will come out of this. i don't want to just pretend

like this is of no import because we don't know what is about to happen. at the same time, i think congresswoman ocasio-cortez is right to say, you know what, great, they deserve each other as the rev said and maybe that's not the most important government office, so that is actually a point of hope, maybe. >> i think, melanie, the people are trying to read in these tea leaves is the fact that there may be folks who say, yeah, we need to deal with bureaucracy and there is an appetite to examine government efficiency, but based on the things that musk and ramaswamy have said independently about how they might go about that, for example, a random lottery, that doesn't seem like the most effective way to get at the root of their described problem. >> yeah. and i would argue there is probably bipartisan interest in making the government more efficient. the spirit of what they're trying to do is not something that is inherently partisan.

this idea of rooting out waste, fraud and corruption is not a navel concept on capitol hill. but when you really drill down, what they say they are trying to accomplish, they are trying to cut down government spending by going after the federal workforce. okay, well, the federal workforce only makes up about 4% of the entire federal budget. if they are really trying to reduce spending, cut back on the deficit, what they need to go after really is entitlement reform, medicare, social security, those are the things that are the biggest drivers of debt, the biggest line-items on the budget, but trump said he's not going to touch those things, it is the third rail in politics. while they may be focused on cutting down on the federal workforce and go after some grants and things like that, you're nibbling around the edges of the problem that they are trying to really address. >> melanie, thank you so much for joining us and writing us your reporting. trump's transition team

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over 400,000 people with afib have left blood thinners behind with watchman. a safe, one—time implant that reduces stroke risk and bleeding worry, for life. watchman. it's one time, for a lifetime. [♪♪] looking for a moisturizer that does more than just moisturize? try olay regenerist for 10 benefits in every jar. olay visibly firms, lifts, and smooths wrinkles, by penetrating the skin, to boost regeneration at the surface cellular level. try olay. i have nothing to do with project 2025. that's out there. i haven't read it. i don't want to read it. >> project 2025 is not affiliated with the trump campaign. >> i don't know what it is. it is project 25.

he's involved in project -- and then they read some of the things and they are extreme, i mean, they're seriously extreme. but i don't know anything about it. i don't want to know anything about it. >> well, so much for that. new reporting from nbc news reveals that trump's transition team is already turning to project 2025 to help staff the next administration. from that reporting, while project 2025's massive book of conservative policy recommendations received most of the attention from democrats, a central part of the effort was putting together a database of officials had framed as conservatived linked overseein to reach out to potential hires who names and contact information were part of the database. there is a lot of positions to fill and we continue to send names over including ones from the database. hard to find 4,000 solid people, we're happy to help. we're back with the rev and mara, both are absolutely

shocked by this revelation. i want to play for you some of what co-chair of trump's transition howard lutnick had to say to cnbc from back in september. >> former president trump has disavowed project 2025. >> he's disavowed it to me, that's for sure. >> have you read project 2025? >> i did. >> you did. okay. have you met with either paul dans or anybody involved in project 2025? >> here as the best answer i can give you. absolutely zero. how about that? absolutely zero. no connection, zero. >> okay. >> and that's -- i wanted to ask -- >> i won't take a list from them. i won't take a topic from them. i won't touch them. they made themselves nuclear. >> yeahinteresting because, of course, i think like many americans who were somewhat engaged in the political process over the past year, i always

took quite seriously the relationship between project 2025 and jd vance, donald trump, and i think unfortunately there are a lot of americans who may have even voted for donald trump who may not have known about it because of the ecosystem that they were in, in terms of media, or they simply voted for donald trump because they were upset about prices, they were -- something was going on in their own lives. i don't know. i'm not sure that the project 2025 agenda -- >> what was they voted for. >> was what they voted for and to be clear it is a deeply unpopular agenda. another way it think about what happened in the election, it was close, and we now know how close the election was, is that across america, even in places where donald trump won, you had popular referendums and support

shown for things like abortion rights. for things like lgbtq rights. and so these are in direct opposition to project 2025, which is an extreme really christian nationalist, i hesitate to even use the word christian, you know, in this conversation about this document and this plan. so, this is not a popular agenda. and i think that, again, we have to really look at the ways in which these policies impact everyday americans, not how they're going to impact the democratic party. >> that's right. you led me exactly where i wanted to go in this conversation, which is there are a lot of folks who voted for donald trump who did not vote for project 2025. and some of those folks are going to be among the most impacted by the policies that are laid out in project 2025. >> some of them are going to be the most impacted because they're the most targeted by project 2025. and i think that if people had a

wider knowledge of what is in those 800 some odd pages, and what the plans are that directly deals with them, they would have been lined up voting against that. there is a reason why everybody from trump down acted like they were not there. and they didn't -- >> i've never seen such a hot potato before. never heard of it. >> i knew nothing about it, i don't want to know, all of that. and they rarely give a definitive denial because they knew if it got out there, that people would be very much concerned, because it is about them, it is going to hurt average people, just like i've been saying and i don't understand why people are not looking at this, as he's made these appeals to black men, you and i talked about this, he has not appointed one black to his cabinet, not one. friday night, and he's been appointing every day, now he may give us an after thought over

the weekend, but where is all the guys that were running around talking about the democrats haven't done nothing for me, trump will give us more, we are not even on the list that he has put out for cabinet. >> it may not be too late to put your name in the database, sir. >> the database they want to put out names is not for cabinet. i thinsaying how do you and you won't put them in the cabinet? how do you say this or that about efficiency, but read project 2025? they need to challenge him about what it is that they have represented and in fact what they have already done in this pre presidential period. >> it is a treat to spend time with you. i love my new schedule but i miss our hands off every saturday. thank you for being with us. thank you for spending some time with us, mara, sticking with us a little bit longer. a short break for us. we'll be right back. us we'll be right back. with the watchman implant. watchman. it's one time, for a lifetime.

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today judge juan merchan postponed donald trump's sentencing in the hush money case where he was convicted of 34 counts of falsifying business records. judge merchan said he would give trump's defense more time to argue why the case should be dismissed. now that he is the president-elect. comes after earlier this week manhattan district attorney alvin bragg's team agreeing to stay on the sentencing was appropriate for now, but said they will oppose a forthcoming motion to dismiss the case from the defense. in his order, judge merchan set deadlines of december 2nd for trump's motion and december 9th

for the prosecution's response. we'll stay on that story. up next, matt gaetz out of the spotlight, will some of donald trump's other controversial cabinet picks get a closer look? we'll try and do just that after a very quick break. d do just thr a very quick break a push and...! so, we scheduled at safelite.com. we were able to track our technician and knew exactly when he'd arrive. we can keep working! ♪ synth music ♪ >> woman: safelite came to us. >> tech: hi, i'm kendrick. >> woman: replaced our windshield, and installed new wipers to protect our new glass. that's service on our time. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ on chewy, save up to 40% on holiday gifts for your pet. like their favorite treats, toys and food. the best presents. at the best prices.

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prejudge them but yes, it is a pretty concerning accusation. >> hi, everyone. it is 5:00 in new york. now that trump's controversial pick for attorney general matt gaetz is no longer under consideration scrutiny will turn to his other cabinet choices, some of whom themselves are raising concerns prq just heard from kevin cramer of north dakota speaking about pete hegseth. in 2017 a woman accused hegseth of sexually assaulting her, an on he denies. she claims she was paid in a settlement. it begs the question will republican senators draw a line in the sand with this pick as well? nbc news reported five senators would vote no on gaetz. as bill kristol writes today, the good thing is when you've decided to become captain of

your soul once, you can do it again. gaetz is gone. others can be made to go too. why should a deplorable and dangerous nominees like pete hegseth and robert f. kennedy jr. be next? couldn't trump the forced to toss them overboard as well? he could if senators would take a stand and stand their ground. let's remind you of the other picks. we already mentioned pete hegseth for defense secretary, whose in the hotseat. then there is rfk jr. who has touted debunked conspiracy theories like vaccines cause autism. and tulsi gabbard has raised alarms among some of those in the intel community. punch bowl news is reporting gop senators are reporting they will be interested in probing tulsi gabbard's posture with intelligence apparatus she ran and confirmed.

republican senators have privately discussed their efforts to viewing gabbard's files, which is done for every nominee. the implication, documents could reveal previously unknown information about gabbard including possible foreign contacts. nbc news cannot verify what's in gabbard's file. whether gaetz 's withdrawal helps or hurts gabbard, it remains a major unknown. republicans are calling on the rest of trump's cabinet choices to avoid the pitfalls. tommy tuberville said come up here and go through the gauntlet. you've got to sell yourself. you've got to prove yourself. that is where we start this hour with columnist charlie sykes, host of the podcast and special correspondent from vanity fair, and laura is back with us. you know, charlie, i've been thinking about this as far as politicsif any of these

people are chosen to lead but you reframed it for me in your writing, which is the value statement that makes to put these folks forward knowing what donald trump knows about them and the value statement it would be on the part of senate republicans to confirm them. >> i think we stick with the false setting republican senators will cave in that bill kristol makes an interesting point. republicans have drawn a line not once but three times. they found it donald trump on three major things. number one, they refused to cave into his demand to have a maga loyalist as the leader. that was number one. number two, they did not go along with his attempts to have recess appointments to surrender their powers -- their constitutional powers of advise

and consent. they basically threw up in their mouths at the idea of matt gaetz. you know, donald trump started this transition with a lot of shock and awe by coming up with these all controversial appointments. there is a lot of time now for republicans to think about this, whether or not gaetz was a speedbump or whether or not they will take their responsibility seriously, their role as a guardrail seriously. as ridiculous and absurd and as dangerous as matt gaetz was, so is had sec -- hegseth, so is -- >> you know, when you pivot from matt gaetz to pam bondi, one should emphasize she has a lot more legal experience than matt gaetz had so in that way she may have the resume and experience comparatively.

that's not the same as being uniquely qualified to take a position and i think that concept of pivoting from one to another applies to the whole group, right? which is simply because matt gaetz is off the table and republicans have shown once, it does not mean they have now done their job. >> no, and i think charlie has a really good point here. these nominees have to last until january or february, right? because mitch mcconnell said no recess appointments, these people will have to go through congressional hearings. there are some people trump nominated like marco rubio -- marco rubio will get through but these other candidates have serious issues coming up and we see with pete hegseth more and more stuff coming up. there are two purple state senators up for reelection in 2026 and they will be, you

know, going -- if trump's second term is anywhere near his first term which likely it will be even more so those two will be in a brutal election and that those are thom tillis of north carolina, a state democrats have done well, and susan collins who has her own coalition but those are two senators who really need to not have to vote for people like pete hegseth. >> we are going to return to those names a lot, thom tillis and susan collins when it comes to the mechanism we see the trump mechanism try to use to deportation. having taken a vote in which they say, yes, let's spend american tax dollars on the thing that is not universally supported and popular, the same will be true with these nominees. when you look at the bouquet of issues, who do you think here has the biggest challenge?

>> [ laughter ] >> i think that of the nominees, hegseth easily has the biggest challenge. i think, you know, these are individual senators who receive intelligence briefings. these are people who think about i hope seriously at this point what their own power will be as they kind of govern the country alongside donald trump. you know, they have -- they noo. that they want to have with this president. do they want to spend the next several years essentially under the presumption that the president knows that they are going to rubberstamp everything? that may not actually be what the senators want to go to washington to do so i do believe there is a little bit of pressure that they are applying on this president to say, you know, we are not

giving him a blank check. that is about self-preservation for whatever purpose, whether it be a vulnerable member like susan collins, the issue they care about, their own family, their own constituency. i think hegseth is a good example of a nominee, you know, maybe that is a hill to die on because it's not just, you know, o, elections have consequences and this is a conservative or right-wing individual. this is someone who is not only unqualified but has extreme views that could seriously harm the military, especially when you look at just women and lgbtq individuals in the armed forces. there is a security risk there and that gives senators the permission structure, i would say. >> i will talk about that with the congresswoman it just a bit, but i want to play for you a little bit of what senator

josh hawley had to say just yesterday. take a listen. >> someone who opposes abortion, does it concern you given such a significant policy? >> i assume he will adopt the positions -- if he is confirmed he will adopt the same positions president trump has. the cabinet secretary, these people serve the principal and the principal is the president so i assume he will support the president's policies whatever his personal position is. >> charlie, what do you make of that analysis? >> basically he is acknowledging the cabinet members are simply going to be donald trump's will. they are figureheads. to a large extent, that is true and one of the big differences in trump 2.0 from the first

term, it's hard to imagine any of these individuals standing in the oval office and saying no to donald trump or pushing back when he says i want to use u.s. military on the streets against american citizens, or when he adopts some, you know, radical conspiracy theory about vaccines. so -- but the problem with robert f. kennedy jr. and pete hegseth, there are so many multiple problems. it will be extraordinary, not just the things in the past but i do agree that hegseth's nomination is the most problematic and i think there is a real chance he doesn't make it until january. robert f. kennedy jr. is not just absurd and dangerous, he is deadly because if he does in fact dismantle the fda, if he does in fact move ahead with his initiatives to limit the use of vaccines for our children, this

will lead the country dangerously vulnerable to the next pandemic and there will be another pandemic. will we -- you know, will the country be prepared for it? i think these hearings will be unusually high stakes and i don't think the answer that i'm here to do whatever donald trump wants will be a sufficient answer. >> molly, let's talk about trump's pick to head the department of education. quote, mcmahon has been accused of failing to stop at ringside announcer for grooming children in the 1990s and the suit says mcmahons were aware of a credible abuse accusations against mr. phillips. >> it's like q and on, right? q and on is based on the theory people enable such crimes.

look, linda mcmahon was able to negotiate the first trump administration because she did not run afoul of ethics violations because she took her private jet so these are the people we are talking about here. what's interesting about linda mcmahon, she wanted to become her secretary but her cochair had gotten the job so trump had to find something for her to do so he put her in charge of education, a department he would like to eliminate. >> there is an opportunity cost, right? i have two children in public school, constant force among parents is the teacher shortage. it's hard to find a sob and you have teachers filling in for other teachers. there is one way that it manifests in the light of everyday americans. there are issues that need to be addressed and solved like the national teacher shortage which is why you would ideally want someone serious about public education.

>> i think it is just tragic because i think one way to think about this appointment is a patronage appointment. donald trump, yes, it's shocking but he's putting a loyalist in charge of an agency he doesn't care about. it is tragic because all across america, we have children entitled to an education, who deserve an education and need one and, you know, this is a department tasked with ensuring they received the education to which they are entitled and now it looks like there will be an empty suit in that chair. just to kind of pull back a second, as all americans know very well, education is a local issue, so this is one area i do believe we will see and hope innovation and a defense of this particular entitlement to public education from governors across the country.

you know, not just democrats but republicans as well who are really going to hold the line on this. this is a direct public service that americans have come to expect and depend on for generations. i don't believe it will be very popular to take that away. so the question is what can local government do? what can governors across the country do to make sure their kids are protected? >> that's also why i've got the next school board meeting on my calendar with a big heart and circle because for those who want to remain typically active it's a good reminder of how we have a voice in our communities. charlie, i can't get out of this conversation without talking about tulsi gabbard meeting with senators after thanksgiving. punch bowl was told, quote, this is an individual the president wants on his team but let's talk about information the president didn't have or information that comes up. at that stage, do we advise the president to look elsewhere or

do we offer our consent? what are we seeing? >> i certainly hope there is pushback because putting someone like tulsi gabbard in charge of the intelligence community is a reckless act as the world becomes more dangerous and deadly. there may be more that we don't know about her. we don't know what's in the fbi file. what we do know is she has been one of congress's leading defenders and apologists. she has been aligned with vladimir putin and has helped some of the kremlin's own propaganda and this is someone donald trump wants to put in charge of the nation's intelligence community. i think there will be consider a pushback and i'm guessing the senators will be hearing from people in the cia, you know, singh this is a dangerous

thing, this is the person who will be in charge of, you know, critical intelligence to the president of united states. do you really want somebody whose judgment is this questionable, and who may have some very, very questionable ties? so, yes, i do expect more pushback. you are seeing questions like this now in november. that's an indication this is far from a done deal. >> talk to us about the timeline. >> there will be more and more allegations to come out. trump is not even sworn in until late january and the late hearings in february and march. you will have people like pete hegseth sitting across from tammy duckworth, right? pete hegseth has written about women not being in the military. tammy duckworth lost her legs, okay? you are going to have a woman who has given so much to

service and i think that is going to be pretty stark contrast. >> charlie sykes, molly jong- fast, mara gay, thank you oh. when we return, pete hegseth's views on women in combat as we were just discussing sharply at odds with leaders. a climate of profound fear and anxiety. a former navy pilot will be our next guest. also ahead, what vladimir putin is up to in the final weeks of the biden presidency. moscow's promised ukraine and western allies. russia and the united states are closer to direct conflict than they have been in decades. and later, a committee on maternal mortality has been disbanded after reporting about the deadly impact in the state's abortion ban. deadline: white house continues after a short break.

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n.com so, social justice infiltrating another example is military sexual assault. it's a problem. we shouldn't be having military sexual assault. everyone understands that. you think you bring women into the infantry you exacerbate that a little bit? not saying that is anyone's fault but that is a consequence of that also. when you say we will handle that problem by stripping of the authority of commanders, to

take it out of the chain of command, that means you don't understand the military and when you start to erode that you start to erode a lot of what the military is all about. >> that was pete hegseth, trump's pick for secretary of defense claiming women shouldn't serve in combat roles in the military because addressing the sexual assault problem to change the culture of the military. hegseth has been accused of sexual assault. the incident was reportedly a little after year after he made that speech. hegseth has denied the allegations. hegseth paid his accuser an undisclosed amount in 2023. hegseth was investigated but not charged with a crime. not surprisingly, women serving in our armed forces are terrified both because of hegseth's hostility towards women serving in combat but also because of the chilling signals it would send. quote, when you have a leader that's already been credibly accused of sexual assault and

already has other signals in his background that he's not concerned about the contributions women can make the national security could create bad signals up and down the chain of command, said one defense department official who was granted anonymity to speak. there is already profound fear and anxiety. joining us now, mikey cheryl of new jersey. congresswoman, what kind of message does this send for the incoming president to nominate someone with those allegations to be secretary of defense? >> i mean, just shocking that across-the-board there are people who have sexual assault allegations or are aware of sexual assault allegations that they do nothing about and don't address. it is really striking. then you hear from pete hegseth that he thinks the problem is women serving, that if you put women in places that men are, they will be sexually assaulted

? i mean, i guess you have seen his worldview and we seem credible allegations he is carrying out sexual assault himself so i think what we are looking at is a real concern someone who is saying he doesn't respect the service of about 20% of our active duty military will undermine this good order and discipline. again, to point out to your viewers, the way we fight now is so different from how we would have fought in world war i. there aren't trenches or front lines, people on the battlefield and people in the background helping them. there are people interwoven that the military in so many different ways and i'll tell you we have certain positions now like the lioness squad that only women can do. when you are clearing homes of women in the middle east and you're trying to gain valuable intelligence information, you need women doing that.

is interesting to hear the report someone is guessing there is fear and anxiety by women in the military. what i've heard is anger and deep-seated anger and disrespect for the 30 years of service of women in combat that is being undermined by this person, that is just markedly unfit to serve as secretary of defense. >> at the individual level and as a question of military readiness. the atlantic writes this about the selection of hegseth. quote, hegseth considers him self to be at war with basically everyone to trump the left. a defense secretary with a tenuous grip on reality who can't differentiate foreign enemies from domestic political opponents and who seems to exist in a state of permanent hysteria is a problem the united states has never had to survive. the main question i was looking to answer when i started reading hegseth's collected

works was whether he would follow a trump command to shoot peaceful protesters. after having read them i don't think you would even wait for the order. do you believe secretary hegseth what unleash the u.s. military on civilians? >> well, this tracks because as we saw the one group that really stood against trump as he was trying to remain in office despite an election that he kept trying to co-opt, the one group against him was the military and we have seen military members, the veterans who served in his administration, some of the people who knew him best have questioned his dedication to the constitution have said that they have grave concerns about how he might undermine this country. and i'll tell you, that's why i'm running for governor right now because we need strong leadership. we need strong democratic governors when we are facing an onslaught of people trump is trying to appoint to very senior positions in the country, people in charge of men and women not just in the

intelligence agencies but in our military over education, over the attorney general's office, people that are simply loyal to him, not the constitution, not the people of the country, but loyal to him. we need leaders who are willing to stand up to that while at the same time continue to deliver. deliver on affordability, on housing costs, on grocery costs, deliver for the american people in the wake of the chaos trump seems to inevitably court. >> i was going to ask about your gubernatorial run in the greatest state in the union but before i do, i want ask you about tulsi gabbard. she will likely be one of his many picks who will not be vetted by the fbi. the concerns that raises for you? the implications? >> again, so your viewers know, a security clearance is done by the fbi. they clear people, so the fact that she basically won't be put forth for the director of

national intelligence without a basic level security clearance is shocking and should not give her access to any classified material. certainly trump can way that, but when you're intelligence community knows that she has been seen as a possible threat because of her foreign travel, because of her support and her questioning of our national intelligence saying he has committed more crimes and her saying she has not seen evidence even though evidence existed for war crimes and blasting his own people with mustard gas, she is parroting russian propaganda to the point they are calling her comrade and that seems like a national security threat. trump is putting this person up for the director of national intelligence. you look at this and you know

intelligence agencies will be very curtailed on what they want to give her or show her, and you know our allies will not want to share intelligence with us. trump himself has a history of talking about intelligence that i have to just -- i cannot stress enough that she is a danger to the men and women in the field who are gathering intelligence to protect us here at home. she is a danger to them in the sense she could out of them too. foreign adversaries, she could out them to a president, out them on tv, and put people in danger who are serving this country. >> congresswoman, you will be running to replace phil murphy when his term expires. what do you want viewers to know about your campaign and the role of governors in this upcoming administration? >> well, we talked about what we might see coming from washington so it is important people have real leadership. as people are thinking through these critical issues, they know there is someone on the

front lines who is working hard for them and working hard to push back against these problems so they don't feel they are individually responsible for addressing all of the critical issues going on in this country. and instead, they can focus on how are they going to raise their kids? how are they going to pay their bills? how is that going to be delivered? in new jersey, we need a fresh perspective. we need a new generation of leaders who aren't going to, you know, take on the status quo and that is what i'm committed to doing because we know there are times of opportunity in the state. it's just not available to everyone. we know there is so much people can do, and yet they are not seeing the results of their hard work and in too many cases, feeling they just can't make it in jersey. as you said, it's the best state in the nation so if people want to stay here we want to make sure they have the opportunity

to do so. >> mikie, saying that sign always reminds me how proud i am to be from the state. mikie sherrill, thank you for your expertise. up next, russia is rattling its sabers and threatening ukraine and allies with nuclear war. that's ahead. (luke) that's why we do it, marci. (marci) it really makes all the effort worth it. gathering the most in-depth info, making a clean, new homes-dot-com that improves home-shopping, creating a better way for people to... (luke) ...people to find the perfect home to build their lives. (marci) are you okay? (luke) no, it's... it's the dust-based allergy. oh, there's another one! (marci) that's why we do it. isn't it... got a lot of dust in your... (luke) it's so dusty. (marci) yeah. (vo) homes-dot-com. we've done your home work.

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nothing underscores the need for competent foreign policy

leadership quite like national security nominees walking into. global tensions are evolving this afternoon and it not for the better. in a warning to western nations, vladimir putin says he's ordered an attack on ukraine to be played out by a ballistic missile. that escalation response to ukraine firing long-range missiles deep into russia this week, missiles provided by the united states. joining us now, former ambassador to russia and msnbc affairs analyst michael mcfall and former secretary of state and public affairs during the obama administration rick, it is good to see you both. ambassador, put that news in context for us. >> well, this is putin's response to the use of american- made attacks used the first time a few days ago against

targets inside russia. this has been a debate for many years now, by the way, about whether they would have the ability to use these american- made weapons inside russia. president biden finally gave the green light, rightly in my view. it should have been done long ago. putin promised escalation and what you reported on, this weapon, this intermediate ballistic missile, it was used for the first time ever so we've seen a for-tat and an escalator away. if you read putin's statement and listen closely, i don't hear him saying he wants to make this a major aeschylus tory move and especially i united states or our nato allies. >> here is why i want to weave this into what we have been talking about the last hour, the stakes for assembling a national security team in this moment. >> couldn't be higher.

there is a major war, the biggest in europe since 1985 with the possibility of escalation. there is a major war going on in the middle east, a major threat of war around taiwan. this is a very dangerous time, much more dangerous than the first era of the trump administration. and, yes, for these kinds of issues, for issues of national security, you want very competent, trusted people with deep experience in national security affairs and diplomacy. >> we learned this afternoon visiting donald trump today at mar-a-lago. what do you think about him being elected? >> i don't know. he -- donald trump, by the way, non-donated -- nominated someone who has been very anti- u.n. for most of her career.

as far as cabinet officials he is nominating people who are against the mission of the actual agency they have been selected to run and as you mentioned in the last segment, the fact so many people including the head of the director of national intelligence will not go through an fbi investigation is just mind boggling. if you read that in a spy novel, you would know the conclusions they would come up with. this is a difficult time in the national security sphere. part of the problem i've always thought of democracies is that we don't always have people with the right expertise to deal with these things. what we are seeing in russia and ukraine now, trying to eat up territory, make gains before trump comes into office because trump has been claiming he will

settle this within 24 hours so both sides want as much material for that settlement as possible. >> that is one quarter of the world and rick, i want to play you something from 2018, trump talking about north korea and kim jong un. take a listen. >> we have a back and forth and then we fell in love, okay? no, really. he wrote me beautiful letters and they are great letters. we fell in love. >> that was 2018. best for to today. north korean leader kim jong un appeared to rebuff the prospect of reviving his nuclear diplomacy with president-elect trump and his first talks since the election. state media reported friday the 40-year-old dictator called the u.s. a superpower operated by force rather than to coexist in his cash-strapped regime.

anything in there surprise you? >> [ laughter ] in history, human history of authoritarian leaders, none of them like to be described as writing love letters to other leaders are saying they fell in love with them. this is not their first rodeo now with donald trump and they understand he has this strange rhetoric and he is doing this for show business purposes and they don't want to be doomed again. you've seen kim jong un say i don't want to go down that path again where i am potentially marked by everybody in the world and as we have seen he has drawn closer the last few years and recently with russia he has sent 11,000 troops to help putin in ukraine. that's another extraordinary difficult foreign policy issue this new administration will have to deal with. >> you have a top south korean official today saying russia do -- supplied air defense

missiles to north korea. your response, mr. ambassador, going into the second trump term? >> i was in south korea the day vladimir putin came to north korea for the first time in 20 years to sign a new military agreement with kim jong un and everybody then was anticipating a deepening of this relationship so we saw the first move -- extraordinary move, by the way, that does not get enough attention. 10,000 north korean soldiers in europe fighting against a european power and of course he wasn't going to do that for nothing and this reporting suggested what he got in return which makes our allies very nervous especially because they were nervous during the first trump era when he threatened to pull out and said you've got to pay us to keep our soldiers there, this notion we don't

have allies, we have business deals. it's extremely nerve-racking for our allies in europe and asia. >> any time putting together a competent leadership team has never been more important. michael mcfaul, rick stengel, thank you for being with us. i will shift gears. in one state, one move a top georgia official made after revealing a new abortion ban. we will have that for you right after a quick break. ok y'all we got ten orders coming in.. big orders! starting a business is never easy,

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amid the growing outcry of abortion bans donald trump's hand-picked supreme court justices allowed to go into effect or lead to the death of women. antiabortion advocates have landed on a solution, get rid of the evidence. two georgia women died after abortion care was withheld for them for hours. georgia responded, not i trying to prevent similar deaths from happening in the future but by dismantling the maternal mortality committee responsible for the reports. confidential information provided to the committee was inappropriately shared with outside individuals. dr. kathleen toomey, commissioner of the state department of public health, wrote a letter addressed to the committee. even though the disclosure was investigated the investigation was unable to determine which individuals disclosed information. therefore effective immediately the current mmrc is disbanded.

the organization's mission is to protect women's health and women's lives. in an op-ed in the wall street journal, elon musk and vivek ramaswamy says they will use their organization to defund planned parenthood. talk about the implications of that decision in georgia. >> we saw in georgia con gss -- conscientious whistleblowers in that committee, who really did what they professionally thought was right. i don't know them and i don't know who they are but we have seen throughout our history in a democratic process folks, you know, stand up and say i have evidence something is catastrophically wrong and thank god for them, right? thank god those folks on the committee stood up and said we are going to get this

information out to the public and pro-public a and their journalist broke a story about amber nicole thurman and candy miller. if we did not know their stories, how much more work would we have to do to inform the american people of the crisis at hand? you know, their families need to live with this evidence i've read a -- every day. no amount of change to this committee changes the fact georgia has an abortion ban that has led to the death of these two women that can be proven and countless other women across the country who have died from abortion bans. the implications are chilling. this is really going to create even more barriers for information to get out to the public, to the press about the ramifications of these bans and

it's frightening what they're trying to do in georgia and i fully expect texas to do the same. >> in texas, they pointed to idaho dissolved their own mortality committee, so this is already happening. planned parenthood responded with a statement. quote, one in three women have been to a planned parenthood health center in their lifetime according to the kaiser family foundation. planned parenthood doesn't get a blank check from the federal government. like any other provider or hospital, affiliates are reimbursed for services provided to patients at health centers. what must and ramaswamy call federal overspending provides critical and sexual reproductive health care to thousands of people every day. talk to me about what the landscape looks like for folks in this country seeking to access care if all of a sudden

planned parenthood is no longer an option. >> it would be inconceivable. it's the number one healthcare provider in our country for reproductive health care and that includes cancer screenings, pap smears, well woman care. so much so many rely on. the most trusted brand. the most trusted brand for women's healthcare in this country. it is an infrastructure that could not be replicated. what they highlight and their statement is so important for folks to understand. planned parenthood is not a progressive word as they classify it in their statement or their op-ed, musk and ramaswamy. they aren't experts on women's health. they aren't getting a federal grant. they are getting reimbursed for services they provide as a healthcare provider. like many of our clinics, our doctors offices, our hospitals get reimbursed because they are a healthcare provider.

it's not new. they have survived these things before. it's a popular gop extremist witchhunt. donald trump ran and won by promising americans he would not impose a national abortion ban. defunding planned parenthood, going after healthcare services as part of a larger framework of attacking reproductive healthcare in this country, so it's our job to make sure americans understand that the gop committed to them, committed to america they will not go after this healthcare, and this is what they would be doing if they defund planned parenthood and we are ready to fight. >> mini timmaraju, you warned us this is where we would be an here we are. thank you for joining us, mini. quick break and we will be right back. ually sa ng goodbye to his old phone. i'm switching to the amazing new iphone 16 at t-mobile! it's the first iphone built for apple intelligence.

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shop etsy's cyber spectacular se until december 3rdme conn for up to 60% offates. gifts crafted by small businesses. get fetching finds for friends with fur friends and everyone else on your list. for up to 60% off gifts that say i get you. etsy has it. starting in august, a new bible based curriculum for elementary schools will be available in texas after that state's education officials today approved bluebonnet learning, a curriculum that has ignited fierce backlash. hundreds of texans protested for months while the state's largest union and parents including some christians argued the lessons blur the lines between construction and provides scripture as truth to children as young as five.

the curriculum is optional but financially incentivized to the tune of $60 per student. a quick break for us and we will be right back. plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. most plans include the humana healthy options allowance. a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. plus, your doctor, hospital and pharmacy may already be part of our large humana networks. so, call the number on your screen now, and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. and remember, annual enrollment ends on december 7th. humana. a more human way to healthcare.

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thanks for spending heart of your friday with us. we are so grateful. catch me tomorrow and sunday morning on the weekend. tomorrow we will talk to mark elias and on sunday, congresswoman elect sarah mcbride joins the table. catch it right here on msnbc. the beat with ari melber starts right now.