play becomes more of a naturalized thing as they leave their appointments -- apartments and go on this adventure. they cross an ocean together. i think it's about how the human need to, one, connect with nature and two, how there is an inner responsibility to take care of each other. >> all this to say, this is a musical comedy, by the way. we are talking about what ♪ ♪ good morning. it is saturday, november 23rd. i'm elisa menendez with symone sanders thompson and michael

steel. new this morning, donald trump floods the zone with even more controversial cabinet picks. marc elias is with us at the table as we unpack their plans for the federal government. joining us, on democrat's push to confirm as many of president biden's judicial nominees as possible before time runs out. the fight for the future of the democratic party. we will look at the big names in the running for d nc chair. grab your coffees settle in and welcome to "the weekend." ♪ ♪ breaking nover night, there's a new group of maga loyalists in town and they're set to join the trump administration. donald trump picked russell vought to lead the office of management and budget. he's not necessarily new. he wrote project 2025, the far-right plan donald trump

claimed not to know anything about during the campaign. here is steven miller after last night's announcement. >> he has been the guy for the last four years who has been developing the plan to take down the deep state. that's ross. he will be at omb to execute the plan. >> a bunch of these people work for him. now, donald trump tapped former nfl player scott turner to lead the department of housing and urban development. turner is a leader at the america-first policy institute, a group that like project 2025 has been planning for months to overhaul the federal government in a second trump term. the president-elect named far right conspiracy theorist sebastian gorka to a key national security role and a foxconn tributor fox contributor pick. rounding out the list, scott bessent, a billionaire executive and top campaign fundraiser to be his treasury secretary. joining us is msnbc political contributor and "politico" white

house correspondent, eugene daniels. >> eugene, welcome back to the table. i have something i want to play for you because i think in this sound is the essential ingredient for everything we're seeing play out with trump and the people he selected. let's listen to mr. vought on ukraine funding. >> you think about ukraine and the president in that first term wanted to cut off funding for ukraine. why? because it is a corrupt country and we didn't know how it was going to be spent. it was totally normal policy process to go through that the people lost their minds about. >> right. >> but the bureaucracy was literally just ignoring it and, quite frankly, his political appointees like john bolton were ignoring him as well. and what we then did at omb was i had been personally told, you know, i want the money cut off until we can figure out where it is going, and we cut the money off and it was like all hell broke loose within the

bureaucracy. >> we got impeached, yeah. >> and so -- >> okay. the ignorant laugh at the end aside, that's the core. put these pieces together. the president wanted something done. the bureaucracy and establishment said, no, mr. president, that's not how we do this, there's a problem doing this. the president personally calls want it done and it gets done. that's why donald trump wants the loyalists. that's why donald trump is emphasizing on the picks that he wants this time being loyal to him because he wants to tell them directly what he wants done, bypassing the internal infrastructure that's there to protect him, yes, from doing stupid stuff, but, most importantly, protecting the government's processes and its functions. >> i mean one of the things that, you know, donald trump and his allies, key allies and people that are still around him say that if the -- if he had like a mistake in his first

administration and term, it would be that he had people around him that were stopping him from doing things. >> right. >> right. as you said, some of those things were things that they felt were illegal. there were literal people in the white house that were like taking documents off his desk so he wouldn't find them because they were worried that the blow back would be too fierce. that's clearly not happening. through line from all of the people that we've heard from this long period -- the short period of time where he has been tossing out cabinet secretaries is that they're all loyal to him, they're people who have been on tv defending and protecting him in different ways, and a lot of them have kind of a disdain for the bureaucracy of the departments, of the very departments that they're going to be in charge of. so that tells him clearly they will be willing to dismantle the kind of things he thinks are a waste of time, but there's a lot of stuff in government that just moves slow and will continue to move slow, right. when you think about elon musk and vivek ramaswamy and doge,

lawsuits will happen immediately as they start firing a bunch of people, trying to get rid of different departments. they can only get rid of departments created by the executive branch. otherwise departments like the department of education created by congress -- >> there's a lot of work that goes into that. to that point, eugene, there's reporting in "the new york times" about vought. quote, his role in project 2025 was to oversee executive orders and other unilateral actions trump could take during his first six months in office with the goal of tearing down and rebuilding executive branch institutions in a way that would enhance presidential power. when i asked former trump administration officials who they thought would have power in a second trump administration, vought was often someone who was referenced in part because he did run omb, he understands how the budgetary mechanisms work. he learned a lot in that first term that he has spent four years now preparing for so he

can execute on a short timeline, right. the fact that they are talking about things they can do in the first six months seems to me to be a big tell. >> you know, it really is. i mean, you know, people don't know this but omb has a lot of power. >> it is like the most -- one of the most powerful posts. >> powerful, right. often these are people who are like quiet, you don't see them a lot. the current omb director is not always out there, she doesn't do a lot of the, but behind the scenes there's a lot of work that happens. dealing with congress, working on the purse strings, et cetera, and so what you are going to see from vought is exactly what we -- exactly what we saw in project 2025, especially when it comes to which departments get how much money. what is really interesting, and you guys did a lot of talking about this, is project 2025 was something that -- and its allies and the people that wrote it, donald trump didn't want to talk about them. he didn't know them, right? that is clearly, one, well, never true and it is clearly becoming true some of these

folks are going to be within the federal government and doing the very things that they kind of outlined in that document. and we talked about this, you know, it could have been 100 years ago at this point, but a few months ago that donald trump doesn't always care about, like, the ins and outs of policies. he doesn't care about the tiny things in bureaucracy that can protect or keep you from doing something as president, but someone like vought, who does know how to operate, those are the people that are going to be making a lot of these decisions with a lot of advice and trump telling them exactly what to do. so that's something that is going to change over the next four years, that folks are not going to be used to, and a lot of this is going to happen behind the scenes and folks won't see it. >> people will not see it. i mean there's a lot of picks that, again, we talked about in the beginning, scott turner. he is a motivational speaker and he's going to lead the department of housing and urban development. >> bless him, leading hud. >> i mean it -- first of all, why does everybody -- i mean

every single president, has there ever been a white person who has been the secretary of housing and urban development? >> not since the 1960s i'm sure. >> it is a rhetorical question, but, yes, there has been, but i'm just kind of like, okay, all right. so a lot of -- >> not recently. >> well, i'm glad we have one here today on the list. because look at this list. these are the trump cabinet picks thus far. okay. we also have scott bessent, he is going to serve as the treasury secretary. i mean, what, y'all got something to say? >> no. >> i just was asking, and it is not just republicans that do it, okay. >> scott though, i don't know what it is about hud. >> bush did it. what is it about hud. >> d don't want that job either. >> you don't have a lot of black folks lining up to be hud. >> put me in charge of commerce.

>> yeah, put me in charge of commerce, treasury. >> okay. here we are. >> housing, giving the fact -- we are joking about it but i just want to know, look, housing, we talk about the campaign, bread and butter issues, the economy. housing is one that when you ask people the follow-up question what they mean by economy, they talk about prices are too high, the housing, the rent, the affordability of housing. so actually who is head -- the secretary of hud matters. when the immediate past secretary of hud in the biden administration was in charge, she took on appraisals, discriminatory appraisals. she built public/private partnerships in building new housing. i just -- this position matters, eugene. >> it is definitely going to matter over the next four years. one of the things we heard every single day when we talked to voters, when we talked to the campaign was that housing came up every single time because it is a thing in pricing, in your wallet that you see every single month, right? it happens every single 1st,

2nd, 3rd, 4th, if you are later than 15th of the month when people have to pay that bill and it was rising. there weren't enough housing for people who wanted to leave their first home, therefore, people couldn't get their first home, and then apartment prices were all over the place and it was across the political spectrum. and, more importantly, across age groups. so whatever, you know, he's going to do at hud is going to be something a lot of people are watching. that's why when i talk to folks who, you know, were confused about this pick a little bit, it was that this gig is going to be one that is going to shape how americans view this administration in a lot of ways. >> right. >> the prices stay where they are, they're not going to be -- he is not going to get any credit for it. >> speaking of shaping not just america's views but shaping the course of this new government, "the new york times" reporting on vought and project 2025, notes vought's role in project 2025 was to oversee executive orders and other unilateral actions trump could take during his first six months in office

with the goal of tearing down and rebuilding executive branch institutions in a way that would enhance presidential power. at the end of the day that's why all of these people are here. project 2025, which everybody on the gop and maga ran away from over the course of the summer, are now seemingly, oh, i don't know, using as a foundation for the government. who'd have thought of that? >> you guys. you've talked about it a lot. i think like, you know, this is something that folks are not going to pay a lot of attention to. people are exhausted by politics at this point, but it is something that they probably should pay a lot of attention to, right? the kinds of things that they're going to do on the executive branch level, right? executive power has been expanding for a long time, and it is not just republicans who have done it. democrats have done it as well. so we're going to see how far they can stretch it. the difference is that a lot of the courts stop certain things that some of the democrats wanted to do on executive. we saw it a lot with joe biden.

the supreme court seems poised to be okay with a lot of the things that donald trump and vought want to do when it comes to the executive branch and executive power. so it is a place that a lot of things are going to change, possibly quickly, and americans should pay a lot of attention to it because it is one of those things that will actually affect their daily lives. >> eugene -- >> i just want to note since its inception because people are going to fact check us, hud had six black secretaries. during the clinton administration the secretary of hud was, in fact, not black but the secretary of commerce was. come on now, president clinton. >> there you go. all right. there it is. thank you so much, eugene. appreciate you being at the table. next, democrats are still pushing to release the matt gaetz ethics report. congressman sean cast inis leading the way and he's here to discuss it. you are watching "the weekend" here on msnbc. on msnbc.

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is so late this week trump replaced his controversial pick for attorney general with another controversial pick. former florida ag pam bondi. she is an election denier and, of course, a maga loyalist. while the fight to keep matt gaetz from becoming attorney general is over -- okay, that's done. some house democrats still want the ethics committee's report on his alleged misconduct to be made public. this week illinois congressman sean casten introduced a privilege resolution seeking the release of that report. congressman casten joins us now. he serves on the house financial services committee and is a member of the transparency caucus. welcome, congressman. >> and it is his birthday. >> it is his birthday. >> happy birthday! >> i'm sure, congressman, you dreamed of waking up on your birthday and talking about matt

gaetz, so happy birthday to you, sir. >> thank you, thank you. i've been wishing for this for years. >> let's talk about this. i think there are folks who will ask why it matters that this report is released and what it is that house democrats can do to sort of force the hic committee's hand here. >> let's take the first question. none of us would want to work in an environment where you can commit the crimes matt gaetz is accused of committing, and let's not sugar coat this, including allegations of having sex with a minor child. none of us would want to work in a place where resigning from your job or seeking to transfer to a different division allows you to wipe it under the rug. this matters. it also matters for the integrity of the house. you know, we talk about this from a legal perspective but all of us know in our lives that there is a standard of what is ethical. there is a lower standard of what is legal, and then there's a lower standard still of what is cost surrounds himself with

people that make it expensive to prosecute them for their crimes. we are to remind american people in the house we care about ethics. when you have elections, that we are the country that is not always perfect but at least aspires to that vision that our founders laid out where no one is above the law. and to do that, we need to release this report. >> i appreciate that, that approach because when you were speaking there, councilman, it reminded me of other institutions that tried to hide the sins of their failings, of their members and those who are part of their organization by setting them aside and those things come back to haunt. >> indeed, and it doesn't help the credibility of the institutions as we think about it, does it? >> it does not. it does not. that to me is, you know, again, one of the tools that i think democrats have, not just to talk

about from the ethics standpoint but procedurally and process wise. you need votes to get this done, right? you get this in front of the house. talk to us a little bit about the process so people understand, not just what the intent is but what it is going to take to get it done. >> yes. so this is a unique place where the house really has some authority over the senate as we think about all of these trump cabinet picks. the senate has the advice and consent clause, but in this case the ethics report was done by the house. we have the ability to release this. now, with the privileged resolution we've brought forward simply says that the house members have to go on record yes or no of releasing this report. so the house members cannot say, well, the ethics committee told us it wasn't done. well, we know that's not true because they were prepared to vote on this last july. they can't hide behind that. so this doesn't guarantee it would be released but it forces every member of the house to come forward and vote yes or no for the public to see, or should

this information be released. and given how tight the balance of the house is and quite candidly how many members of the republican caucus there are who, while they might turn a blind eye to sexual assault, do not like matt gaetz. there is the real possibility of it being forced to be released through a house vote. >> you know, congressman, this whole conversation throughout the course, ever since former congressman gaetz was nominated, to me it was -- i was so struck by it because if he were qualified, this would be the one thing that should be the disqualification of why he should not serve. but he wasn't qualified for the position he was nominated for in the first place, you know. what was his qualification to be the attorney general of the united states of america? the fact that he went to law school and passed the bar? i mean it is just kind of like the very serious things that we are learning via press reports and what is in this ethics

report, frankly, as i have been saying are cherries on top of an already nasty cake. it seems to me speaker johnson has thrown his, you know, weight behind speaking out on a number of things that have nothing to do with the issues that the american people are most focused on. you know, he has spoken out about the report and had many meetings and conversations and talked about what he thinks should be done with this report and decorum and how he thinks this should not become public, speaker johnson. he is jumping in with nancy mays talking about where a member can use the bathroom. like this just seems to me like not a focused republican caucus here. >> well, look, there's a tremendous sadness here that we shouldn't lose sight of. i mean matt gaetz is, indeed, as you say, not qualified to hold himself above the law and make sure that the law applies equally to everybody by any stretch. we also have people nominated, you know, the d.o.e. secretary

is a clinic denier. tulsi gabbard is a clear national security threat. we could go on down the list, but i think what scares a lot of us, you know, who served in congress during the last trump administration is that trump puts loyalty above talent. and when he nominates people, the republican house and senate have found it very difficult, if not impossible, to stand up to donald trump and, you know, all of us are still struggling with the fact that the last time donald trump nominated someone with a credible history of sexual assault to the senate, that was brett kavanaugh. we know in hindsight that the fbi was blocked from completing that investigation and the republican senators basically didn't care. they thought it was easier to give a lifetime appointment to somebody with those charges against them than it was to stand up to donald trump, and so that really comes to this point where we are saying if -- if we

care about that stuff, if we think these things matter, if people -- look, we can disagree on political issues, but, my goodness, put someone who truly does hold these truths to be self-he self-evident, that we are all created equal, that equal protection under the law matters. if we care about those things and we are a co-equal branch, stand up for it. and we simply have lost any confidence that -- not republican voters, but elected republicans in washington will stand up for those basic foundational principles of our democracy. >> congressman sean casten, just thank you very much for joining bringing some very sobering realness and elevation to the conversation. we hope you will come back. appreciate your time. >> thank you for having me. still ahead, california senator alex padilla joins us to discuss donald trump's very dark plans for the justice department. also, "the weekend," folks,

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breaking overnight, new details on donald trump's revenge plan for special counsel jack smith. according to "the washington post" trump wants to fire the entire team that worked with smith, including career attorneys typically shielded from political retribution. nbc news reporting that such a move could impact dozens of employees. it is reported that jack smith plans to resign before donald trump takes office. >> well, that is -- we knew that was happening. >> i'm looking for -- for the reason people are surprised. >> right. you know, i don't know what people think is going to happen next. you know, i said this earlier this week with some of -- you know, with the matt gaetz stuff and bondi coming on. i'm like, why is everybody acting, oh, my god, did you

hear? he's -- donald trump has told us before all of this where he wanted to go. so to now say that guys like jack smith -- and there will be others in various departments who did their jobs. they didn't seek a bit -- the one thing that's always missing in all of this is donald trump's own behavior triggers this stuff, you know. so i don't understand why everyone now, you know, is sitting here thinking that the retribution act is -- is something to be surprised at. he said, i am your retribution. that usually tells you he is going to go after people. >> yeah, and it is not going to just be reserved for the people at the top, the name that we all know, jack smith. he is also going to take on the noted. i mean to be very clear, i don't want anybody to be misconstrued to say it makes it right. it is not right. >> no, it is not right. >> but this is what he said. and for months, years, frankly, many of us have been saying, you

know, i think you should take the former president, now the president-elect, very seriously. elections have consequences, folks, okay. so strap in, get ready. make sure you know what is going on, but, like, this is a function of the next trump administration, and i would just note that it means a lot of people are going to have to get some personal lawyers to be ready. but there are so many folks who have been critics of folks like us, who like to say, oh, well, their hair is on fire, they're not looking at donald trump's policies. look at -- they're just talking about the rhetoric, and the rhetoric though is connected to the policy i would argue. >> at the end -- go ahead. >> no, i was going to ask you the question, i think with these confirmation hearings for all of these folks, for pam bondi, for others, but particularly for pam bondi are going to be really interesting, and it is going to be an opportunity for senate

democrats to really hold her feet to the fire. i mean i think there are important questions that can still be asked here to get her on record about what she believes, what she believes the role of an independent judiciary is supposed to be. i wonder, michael, both what you want to see asked and what you want to see answered at those hearings. >> look, the answers won't matter, and that's unfortunate to say, because the narrative is going to be set by the republicans. and so i think the democrats have to press real hard because, as we've already seen with people who have come before who have said to us for their judicial appointments to the supreme court, that stare decisis, roe is settled precedent, their answers don't matter because they're going to lie. they're going to lie. their one goal is to just get -- this is the process they're going to have to go through. they have to sit through the ignorant questions from democrats because they know they will have the votes anyway.

so this is the problem we're in, and the one last piece that i think is important that no one should be -- should miss here, trump is also planning to assemble investigative teams with the justice department to hunt for evidence embattled ground states that fraud tainted the 2020 election. folks, this is about retribution and proving that the election in 2020 was stolen, clear all of the people out of the way who said that the election was lost. >> i know we have to go. alicia, i would note to your point, to your question, maybe i just think back to the kavanaugh hearings, the ones with bill barr, the confirmation hearings and senators had pointed question, one of them kamala harris, and a lot of things that were said then came back around and were foundational for kind of reporting and what not. so, look, get your questions ready, senators. get the questions ready, but i

just think these people are going to get confirmed. >> okay. so that is what republicans are doing as they gear up for a new administration, but, next, the candidates emerging to lead the democratic party into the future. you're watching "the weekend." ♪ ♪

the next chair of the democratic national committee will have a big job on their hands, leading top-level infrastructure, organizing fundraising, all for democrats ahead of 2026 and 2028 elections. they also will be in charge of

shaping that process in 2028 -- really 2027 for the primaries. so far two contenders officially have thrown their hats into the race, martin o'malley and the chair of the democratic arm ken martin. ken martin is currently a dnc vice chair. nbc news has learned that wisconsin democratic party chair ben wikler is considering a run for the role. also here is politics reporter dave wigle. greeting, all. >> greeting, everybody. mo, first to you, you worked inside and outside of the dnc. what do you think the party needs to be looking for in the next leader? >> full disclosure, i'm on the dnc's rules and bylaws committee, which we govern not just the nominating process but

for the next chair selection. so we will be meeting in a couple of weeks to layout the process for the chair selection. look, i think the d nc chair has one specific job and another really important role to play in the situation. one, they've got to set up the committee to help win elections. first and foremost, that's the gig. that means raising money. that means setting up infrastructure. that means making sure we have ground games and strong operations in all of the states. that means making sure we take our data and technology operation to the next level. that's the gig, is to just set up the organization so that round of elections. number two, in this case after we just got beat, the dnc chair can be part of the process and help force the conversation about what direction the party wants to move in moving forward. i want to be clear, it is not like the dnc can wave a magic wand and say, this is who we

are, this is what we're going to do, this is our message. there are a lot of other cooks in that kitchen, but they can have a seat at the table to help the party answer the tough questions it needs to answer. i expect you will hear some of these candidates talk about that. >> so, you know, the interesting thing about all of this is how you kind of -- how to mo's point you set up the game. i can tell you as a county, state and national chairman, you have two specific jobs. raise money, win elections, right. that's the core. then there's the directional piece, and i thought pete buttigieg put up an interesting warning to panicked democrats. he noted, we cannot be mesmerized by the worst things that we see happening. we will be inclined to react with shock by some things that are done precisely with the intent of shocking us. we need to move very quickly through the shock. that's going to be the hardest part of this, because to mo's

point, in those other kitchens everybody is in shock and they react out of shock and they want to do things that are absolutely bat crazy in terms of trying to move the party forward. the chairman has the opportunity to work with the national leadership, the minority leader in the house, the minority leader in the senate, that other teams sort of work through that shock. how do you see that process for democrats, given there are so many constituencies that need to be tending to, herding them through that shock can be difficult. >> yes, between the lines of what you were just saying, this is a lot about 2027 and how they take the next nominee. in a conversation a lot of democrats have had was kamala harris wasn't hurt because of things she did in 2024. she was hurt because of things she did in 2019. when democrats were running for president, people were angry about what the trump administration was doing. they went on tv and said things

that would hurt them. unpopular things, raising your hand when reaction to the border should be de criminalized. one thing that he said was maybe fox news was back in the mix. democrats said, we're not going to have a debate on fox news anymore. well, he said, we need to reach out to people not familiar with our message. he didn't get into this, but how many forums things that might be an unpopular? they can have an answer that might not be popular with that part of the base, but they can't be in position where they're promising everything on video republicans can come back and use against them. it is not the first job of the chairman, but it is how you protect the candidates a bit. donald trump wouldn't go to these forums. he wouldn't go to these debates. he wouldn't take an invitation where he might say something that's unpopular in a swing state. can't protect your candidates from that. how do you make them robust enough they're not making mistakes. >> let's be very honest. i'm sorry, but some has to do

with who is advising the candidates. >> yes. >> okay. i've been on a debit set.they t hand, don't raise your hand. 2020, joe biden's hands was like this, he doesn't have hands to raise. why are we raising hands? we're not in class. you are going to be the president of the united states. perhaps you say, let's not raise hands, i want to say what i need to say. i don't think the candidates did themselves any favors the last time. when you interviewed ken martin and secretary buttigieg and ken martin had similar constructs. i interviewed the secretary on thursday where he made these comments, but when you talked to ken martin, we'll put it on the screen, for first time in history he said, for the first time in modern history, the perceptions americans have of the two major political parties has switched. the majority of americans believe the republican party is the party of the working class and the poor.

that is the deep challenge to our brand. what do democrats need to do to become competitive? you have have the dnc chairs ra mo, and it is not just the dnc chairs, it is the vice chairs. some people will say, oh, this is inside baseball, but these are the people that are going to help shepherd the primary process we just talked about in 2027 and 2028. these are the folks that are going to raise the money. a strong chair is important, but i'm wondering your thoughts of the dnc members, frankly, about the structure. are we returning to a strong ceo model? frankly, is that something members would like to see? >> look, i think members would like to see the dnc actually follow the lead that stacey abrams had in georgia. after she lost her first governor's race, what did she do? she started organizing, like the next day. she started delivering message, not for herself, not for any particular candidate, but for the brand. when i was at the dnc as the

coms director back during the 2014 mid terms -- >> tough mid terms, honey. >> tough mid terms, right. post romney, pre-trump. we did surveys around the country. i will say a word, draw a picture. first word was republican. the commonly drawn picture at the time was a dollar sign. when we asked people why they said, because they're the party of the rich. they wouldn't say that now. but the most commonly drawn picture for democrat was a question mark. that's so much worse. they didn't really know what the dnc stood for. >> you're ten years later. >> this is the question. >> you've still got a question mark. >> this is what i think a lot of democrats are hoping that the party can actually help fill that void by answering that question on the ground. all over across the country, in these battleground states, in working class neighborhoods, working class whites, working class blacks, working class latinos, answering that question

mark now before we even know who is going to think about running for president. >> dave, i take mo's point that this job has some actual tasks before it. you have to be able to raise money, you have to be able to set up a ground game, you have to be able to set up the infrastructure inside a committee. i do wonder what your reporting tells you about the likelihood that this turns into a proxy fight about the future of the party, especially given all of the very hot takes week have seen in the wake of democracy' loss? >> that would dependent in part on who else runs because other people have been making calls or been appealed to mentioned. a lot of state chairs, a lot of progressives in the party do not one person to run, but he is the sort of person that -- as it was said, the party needs to be clear when saying no to an interest group or constituency that might hurt them in a couple of years if they make the wrong promise. the advantage is they're not as weak as they were eight years ago when the party was divided

over the bernie-hillary primary, divided over e-mails that were hacks. they're very strong now and they have the infrastructure that can get out there and win, but not if people have decides six months, a year before the election democrats are the question mark party or the party that's not going to do anything for them or the party that was responsible for inflation. i don't think it will be like eight years ago where there was ideological, what do we stand for test. it will be more about how do we protect the candidate -- as the candidates, is it going to be them saying what we stand for. it will be governors reelected in swing states that say what we stand for. how does does the party create a structure where they're not being caricatured on social media. it is not just trump reaching out to the alternative media podcasts, but democrats being defined not by the candidates but by radicals that were not actually running for office. it is really complicated.

no one has figured this out, even with the presidency of four years and joe biden not doing the things republicans were attacking him for, that got much harder. the chair can set up a structure where the candidates are performing well, that's why i don't think it is going to be like a who's responsible for losing the election fight because everyone was. there's not a faction that they could blame. >> mo. >> i don't know about rahm emanuel, i think it is crazy. >> you like rahm? i was about to say. an hour and ten minutes more to get on the record with that. we will come back to that, mo. thank you both so much.lking about chairman's corner, i thought he was going to talk about facial hair corner. they took you off the screen too soon. quick programming night. a two-night event "the sing sing chronicles," the four-part documentary investigates the inmates of the notorious new york prison. first two episodes air tonight

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♪ ♪ i just think whoever is running for dnc chairman has to drop a bomb in the middle of the whole thing and go, okay, this is how we're going to do this and we're rolling this way. because there are two pieces that got to come together as you set up the elections for next year. you've got to figure out the messaging and you've got to put in place the messengers and the party has to play a role in doing that, but it has to have some kind of -- the vision has to be there where you want the party to go. it is not just process. it is not just -- it is not just all of these individual pieces. it is how the leader kind of brings all of them together. i had to work with that after '06, getting our clocks cleaned in 2006 and losing the presidential in 2008. going into 2009 with two critical elections that november in new jersey and virginia, i had to be able to position the party to get it in the frame --

mind frame of winning again. >> but you gave them money as well. >> yeah. >> and you understood -- >> i dropped a lot of coin. i had to drop $6 million because 38 states didn't even have sufficient websites to make a case. so, yeah. >> that's a part of the messaging, the messengers and the local folks and the national people. i just -- you know, for people to understand the process, this is -- the vote on who the next chair and vice chairs are going to be. very similarly to like when all of these folks were trying, you know, to say joe biden need to step down that weren't anybody

wants to be the chair needs to make sure they are making calls to the members. the black caucus is led by virgi collins. if you are not calling the members of the largest caucuses trying to rally the people within the caucuses to earn their votes i'm not sure if you understand the role before you. >> don't be giving that good advice away for free. >> i know. >> i'm getting paid to be here. i'm coming to my black job for free. i'm paid to be here. that would be my two cents. lastly i don't think i'm pooh-pooing on rahm emanuel for nothing, he is a lovely man. but when he was the chief of staff for obama, many great things the obama administration did. one of the things that some of the obama people did is they didn't invest in the party. they hollowed the party out and they did an outside infrastructure where they said they would do all of this

organizing in this new model. it didn't work. look at michael drinking his coke. it didn't work. >> no, it didn't work. >> during that time we lost more than 1,000 legislative seats across the country, democrats did. i'm trying to figure out why in the moment where we need to broaden the party out, going back to a strategy that jaime harrison people did, in fact, employ, are people saying rahm emanuel needs to be the chair of the democratic national committee. maybe i know nothing. >> we will get on record more and you will refill that cup because there's another busy hour of the weekend straight ahead. we will be joined by california senator alex padilla, representative susie lee and marc elias. do not go anywhere. do not go anywhere r money with . woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her.

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