>> reporter: so thankfully, everyone was able to get out of this area. thankfully, everyone was able to get out of this area, but there were still a few swift water rescues which had to be done last night and late yesterday, but the storm is moving south. it's pushing into central california. areas like santa cruz under the gun. it's also snow in the higher elevations. so folks in the sierra, especially around lake tahoe, they're excited because they've gotten several feet of snow and potentially another foot of snow to come. so ski resorts are starting to open up as the system moves through utah and colorado. ski lovers really excited. >> my goodness, the wineries as well. thank you very much, chase.

this week is ending with donald trump's first loss as president-elect. his first pick for attorney general dropping out thursday. that is a key post where trump had vowed a fight, only to drop it. now it is putting heat on some other potentially problematic picks to faith similar questions. trump has prioritized the justice department more than any other division of government. and he picked firebrand matt gaetz, and that was seen as his true desire. he wanted a total warrior, but it was also clearly this week a test of his power. he did not consult the senators who had both on the matter. trump just acted and basically dared them to oppose him, by claiming he might try to i felt their confirmation vote anyway with a recess appointment. and maga leaders spent the last week or two saying this was a preview of trump's second term. unbridled trump who would mow

down even republican opposition or just right around it. he would dare the senate courts to stop those recess appointments. in other words, let them get what he wants or he will go around you anyway. here is where he takes stock of the world as it really is. how did that go? it failed. trump lost his first cabinet clash before the new senate was even sworn in, let alone hearings for some of these nominees. it was a week of tough headlines about both trump and gaetz, now he is this week with reports you see here, about the failure, the brutal reality check that maybe he won't get his way on everything. i can only tell you the facts as we get them. none of that dictates anything about the future of the whole trump term for this justice department. it simply shows that these tests, as they are calling them, are tests for everyone. they work both ways. that is typical for politics. trump claimed he was testing the senate. in fact, the senate tested him. and it found his resolve to even wage this uphill battle did not extend two weeks. and

we are working in a field where you need a lot more than weeks of resolve. he could not go two weeks, let alone the seven weeks left until the senate is even, well, holding these hearings. until donald trump is sworn in, et cetera. now, i will tell you that trump has famously cozied up to many different people in public life, including rapper $.50. but we can end the week with this fact. donald trump broke the maxim where he said, quote, it's easy to see when you look at me, if you look closely, 50 don't back down. well, trump due back down. and washington politicians also know something that has become clear when you put aside the bluster and spend. donald trump's larger victory that we saw this month is one of the smallest margins in the modern era. if you take the three elections he has had, you see them there very simply, trump's current winning margin, about 1.6%, is

far smaller, less than half of biden's margin in 2020. so what you see there is a trump win, 1.6, trump loss in 20, 4.4, and the margin in 2016 was 2%. in other words, hillary clinton had a better margin, she got more total votes than donald trump when he won the electoral college in 2016. these facts are driving the stories that are, frankly, more sober than the first few days of the reaction to the comeback of donald trump early this month. new york times has a big piece today that notes the narrow win was the landslide that wasn't. trump had one of the quote smallest margins of victory in the popular vote since the 19th century. so, against that backdrop, trump has now rushed out his new ag pick, someone who knows better than matt gaetz, that is pam bondi. she is an aggressive ally, she certainly talks tough and has tough political rhetoric. she is different than gaetz.

bundy served as the attorney general of the big steak, just as kamala harris did. trump now tapping the florida former ag who brings more experience than someone like gaetz. on paper, as i mentioned when the news broke last night, this is the kind of resume more familiar to presidents and has cycles in both parties. you bring someone who has a lot of federal doj experience or you bring someone who has risen pretty high in the state, even to the top law enforcement job of a state ag. and this is a big state, there is more work and more experience there than, say, idaho. if you stop there, that would be a positive. certainly in the eyes of the senate, a positive compared to the first ag nominee who is now out. but bondy also went farther than many similarly situated legal officials, especially in her time since leaving office, to echo donald trump language. lies about elections and abusing government power. >> we do have evidence of cheating, and i will talk about that in a minute. >> the department of justice, that of prosecutors will be

prosecuted. >> we will not go anywhere until they declare that we won pennsylvania. >> the investigators will be investigated. >> we won pennsylvania. >> fake ballots are coming in late. >> did you say fake ballots? >> there could be, that's the problem. >> even fox news has to kind of ask a follow-up question, did you say fake ballots? do you have evidence of that? are you lying about fake ballots and election fraud? and you heard her kind of measure up there. she said from fake ballots, to there could be. that is a quick change to what the actual truth is, it is my job to fact check it for you. there were no fake ballots or stolen election fraud in pennsylvania. indeed, the difference between how some of those trump allies have sounded and the factual community is we follow the ballots no matter where they lead. for example, trump won pennsylvania this year, fair and square. you did not hear is much talk about fake ballots. bondi was there on the side, pushing misinformation in a cycle where he lost

pennsylvania. the doj clash also enforces how the senate can stop other nominees before they even get to hearings, especially if republicans think those hearings will be a bad thing for the whole party. and not just donald trump. there are concerns about the largely unvented into and defense picks trump is made. wonderful can already warning against the intel pick, based on support for ukraine, which could be a big issue. republicans are also asking if the pentagon pick will bring the kind of heat that gaetz did. pete hegseth faces allegations of a 2017 sexual assault. the donald trump teams as they are blindsided by that sexual assault allegation. the wall street journal reported that. i want to tell you something, that is more than admission the next donation, because trump's team is refusing to sign the standard transition agreements or submit its nominees to fbi background checks. that is an extraordinary choice, and one that makes the nomination process riskier,

politically, for the trump folks. riskier for the senate to deal with. but also riskier for potentially the united states. it could leave more top officials subject to blackmail or very big surprises later, if you win these things after they are confirmed. and national security concerns. the pentagon pick has a second gaetz style problem relating to d.c. relationships. he has attacked some of the republican senators he now needs to get confirmed. >> this is a swamp but it. this is a mitch mcconnell special. >> she's been voting for democrats more than she voted for republican sprayed her in susan collins physically are taking on mitch mcconnell. until there is no leadership of that senate conference, it's not going to change. the priorities are not going to change. >> i told you before, people have every right to share their views. their first amendment rights. even extreme positions. that is why pam bondi could say what she said in public life, which is different than saying that in court, where some of those claims might have been illegal. might have been perjury. mr. hegseth , like mr. gaetz,

can clearly expresses reviews of senate republicans. as i mentioned in coverage earlier this week, if the only thing were attacking the establishment of either party, well, that's plenty popular around the country for good reason. you stack all these things up along with this really dangerous choice not to even that the people going into government, and you have to ask two weeks in how this small margin pseudo-mandate is going. we will be back on that with a special guest. and get samsung galaxy s24+ with galaxy ai and watch and tab, all three on us. even if your phone is old or dated, you can turn it in at verizon for gifts for you and the family. all three on us. that's up to $1,900 in value. only on verizon. i'm not a doctor. i'm not even in a doctor's office. i'm standing on the streets talking to real people about their heart. how's your heart?

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>> none of trump's picks are particularly popular. a new poll found that marco rubio, told together, and rfk junior are viewed with approval by only four in 10 americans. those four, marco rubio, told together, rfk junior, and the brain worm. >> we are joined by the nation's joan walsh. she has written about trump's shrinking margin of victory and

what it means to win so narrowly. how are you? >> i'm pretty good. surprisingly. >> feeling better than you thought you would? great weight in the week. he's honeymoon, most winning presidents get a honeymoon. that is just the nature of it. this is how he is spending it. he spent the first two weeks saying he was going to test the senate, and at least on one pick they tested him. >> right, so he wasted his honeymoon. he wasted it, he wanted to rush these people out and he has proven that there are republicans in the senate with some kind of backbone. and i don't know if it's because he is a lame-duck, or if they've seen morality or these picks are so shocking, but i hear people say oh, well, they took out gaetz but they've got to get everyone else. that is absolutely wrong. that's absolutely not true. people need to be judged on their merits, and that includes pam bondi, who, in many ways,

it is much more qualified than gaetz. but her $25,000 donation to her pack from trump university, you know, her election to nihilism, these are all valid questions and should be concerning comic even to republican senators. then you go down the list. pete hegseth, rfk junior, told together, these are all unacceptable picks. and i hope republican senators will agree. >> i think you make a fair point, as well. we are talking about staffing the government, so we are back to governing. there was a lot of politics, a lot of names, we are back to governing. if you don't meet the basic requirements of governing, then you have to deal with that. about a less important job than attorney general. let's just go with babysitter. and you run a little background check, or you do some vetting, you find that the level of ethics or safety, the first candidate does not meet the requirements, then you disqualify them.

i'm not aware of any serious person, i really don't care how you voted. whatever, red, blue, in between, who says on the second pick, we already disqualified one babysitter, so now we just have to take whoever walks in. it's actually, i'm pretty sure, the opposite. on matters of import, particularly safety, you do all the vetting every time. and if it takes longer, that's what you do the vetting. >> exactly. and the idea that they are not going to be vetted by the fbi, it opens a can of worms for him, for them, and also makes the republican senators more vital. i hope they feel that way, too. we are going to see. >> yeah, you made an important distinction, we said this and actually, we tell stories with pictures. i showed her and kamala harris side-by-side, because they both held posts. and if you go into doj, the fact that you have actually been the top law-enforcement official, particularly of the big state, and needs something. on the experience she is much

closer to a harris dinner gaetz. that's government experience. then there is how she actually used her powers, which is different than only do you have experience. but what do you stand for, what are your values? how do people think you would do the job? i want to play a little more of how auntie has sounded. experience, yes, but quite tough and quite overarching in her view of what sometimes the government can do. take a look. >> murderers from venezuelan prisoners coming straight into our country, they are coming to a town near you. it should scare and terrify everyone in this country, the deep state, last term for president trump they were hiding in the shadows. now they have a spotlight on them. >> they are trying to suppress our voices now, and they will not do it. >> what you think as a new candidate, literally last night, less than 24 hours we've had her now in the books, are the questions she should face in the senate about some of

what we might call her political rhetoric, public advocacy, et cetera? >> the election to nihilism, obviously she is entitled to her opinion or whatever false facts about immigrants, but i also think the big question is who do you work for? who do you believe the attorney general works for? are you the president's lawyer? or are you the people's lawyer? and we know from the first term, trump wandered around saying where's my roy cohn? it was not jeff sessions, and even bill barr could not satisfy him. he thought the attorney general should work for him. and that's not how it works. and she looks like somebody who might agree with it. >> yeah, that goes to this language of purging, and sort of what second term you really get. and again, donald trump won a narrow election, and he did it by going at the status quo. the economy, the government, perceptions, fears, sometimes, perhaps exaggerated or not, that many in the people country felt.

all these bad things. you have every right to make that case. you do not, under our constitution, have the authority to just take over the military or purge the way they are talking. we have, quickly, bonnie and hegseth on that trump labeled. take a listen. >> the department of justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted. >> any general that was involved, general, admiral wasn't called in any of the eei woke has got to go. >> what you think the senate should be asking these nominees, for example, if you say that as a general opinion, fine, got to go. that's your opinion. >> fox news host, fine. >> right, but the actual pentagon chief is not supposed to be picking, let alone purging generals based on partisan considerations. >> right, absolutely not. he also doesn't want women in combat, which should be disqualifying. and makes it very hard to have the fighting force we have.

there is so much that's wrong with him, including his utter lack of managerial experience. like we said, pam bondi has some. he has none. he has no qualifications for this, except he will do trump's bidding, he will purge the military of woke, perhaps take women out of combat. so i think there's a lot for them to ask, and a lot of reasons to reject him. >> yeah, i think you raise a lot of important points. cogent as always, i'm glad you are feeling so good. maybe people will be inspired by how uplifted you feel. >> i hope so. >> joan, thanks for being here. have a great weekend. we have a lot coming up top. conservatives telling trump that there are support problems he has, and he has to understand what the voters said and did not say. certainly not a reagan type and date peggy noonan here. nan her and try new vaposh ower max for steamy vicks vapors.

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>> we finally have something much closer to the full tally of the popular vote.

trump made a comeback, i told you that. although, historically, it's one of the smallest margins. as you can see, presidential elections have gotten closer in general. that is a bipartisan trend since the reagan era. trump's win comes in below biden and obama, at a fairly narrow 1.6%. in politics, that matters. especially if the new administration goes beyond broad priorities like the economy and tries more radical measures that other in congress, including some republicans, may find outstrips the actual mandate, the actual win. it also speaks to how trump has already been getting pushback on some of the picks. this is the traditional honeymoon period, but there are people in both parties who look at some of the picks like matt gaetz, now gone, or rfk junior, as less than qualified for the post. one conservative writer with credentials that date all the way back to the reagan era, peggy noonan, writes that much of trump's cabinet might belong on the island of misfit toys. trump often confuses his own antic malice for daring, his

own on seriousness for boldness. she recommends viewing the voters demands as a kind of path election, reading again from noonan, she says quote, you choose reagan, he cut a path through the forest. this year tens of millions of people who did not like trump voted for the path he promised. now, that path vowed lower prices, prosperity, less economic pain, and those goals required a focused and competent set of government leaders, i would say, at the very least. so let's discuss it all without fear or favor, back on the program is pulitzer prize- winning peggy noonan, wall street journal veteran, best- selling author of 10 books. the new one is called a certain idea of america. a certain idea of america, i tell you to go get it wherever books are sold. welcome back. >> thank you, it's good to be here. >> tell us about your point on these paths? >> i just had a feeling in the

summer that america was feeling frustration with the way things had been for the past four years. they did not like it. it didn't feel to me like, oddly enough, kamala harris and donald trump. it felt like path a warpath b, and they were going to take the trump path. and of course, many trump supporters are very much his supporters. but a great number of them, i think tens of millions of them, are simply people who feel his path and his general direction is one i am more comfortable with. >> i don't know if you remember fiddler on the roof. on the one hand, on the other hand, and then on the other hand. if you are familiar with reasoning, that happens. i have some of these hands for you. this margin on the other hand,

even in the currently what you call very split or divided electorate, these are the three trump elections we now have. 16, two fewer votes, but the votes were counted in our system. 20, down 4.4%. covid election, loses to biden. 24, he is up 1.6, but even less than what hillary had in 2016 if we look at the country. on the one hand, very narrow. on the other hand, now i'm on the third or fourth hand, the new york times is not considered an overwhelming friend of trump. writes this today. he proved he is not the historical aberration that many strategists thought he was, doomed to be repudiated and not re-elected. he demonstrated that more americans, quote, agreed with his view of dystopian nation in crisis. that is what they think we are right now. and with willing to accept a convicted felon as their

leader, more than that, considered him the unacceptable fascist leaning threat to democracy that his opponents described. your thoughts? >> two headlines that i think are just, they feel different but are part of the same picture. one, trump's numbers are going down as the numbers are still counted in america, from the 2024 election. but the republican, mr. trump, won the popular vote. not by two or three, maybe by one point or whatever, but it is the first time in 20 years the republican won the popular vote. so that's big. the second big thing, we are a 50-50 nation. down at mar-a-lago, i feel that they are feeling heady because they just won so much. first of all, he came back, historically. senate, house, popular votes. they are feeling pretty great. they can forget it was a close run thing.

it is 50-50. cool your jets. cool the triumph. you have half of the country to win over and persuade. >> that makes sense. >> thank you very much. >> i spent time covering around donald trump, when the kids say that energy, that term, the peggy noonan energy. what you just said. they don't typically, we can see what happens in the future, but they don't typically have that peggy noonan energy. you think that's a mistake? >> i think they are people who, in a nice way to put it is exuberant. they are like chefs and a huge kitchen. there is a big stove. it has eight earners. they've got pots boiling on each burner. they are all on a boil. it is steaming up the room. if it's all too much, lower the temperature.

navy the treasury secretary pick today, scott besson, is a temperature lowering. he certainly seems. i'll tell you, gaetz out , good trade. but he seems, mr. besson, this is the background of a grown-up and of a serious person. those sort of things are good, because there is half a nation to be reassured. and there is nothing lowering about that. that doesn't mean you did not just win. it means you are being a grown- up as you go forward. and perhaps inhibiting yourself from wild animal spirits and being sober. i'm sharing my fantasy life with you here. this is just a huge fantasy, and more of it is in my book. >> welcome i'm always happy to do that when you come around. a certain idea of america.

this is chris hayes and lin- manuel miranda. here they were in middle school. >> okay, you're on. >> so, full disclosure, it goes back a ways. but lin-manuel miranda makes his beat debut later tonight. il va. the vaporizing night time, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, best sleep with a cold, medicine. i was out on a delivery, when i came across a snake. fedex presents tall tales of true deliveries our battle was legendary. maybe now my friends will believe me. we did this for one delivery, see what we can do for your business. fedex.

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>> it shows us that the voters are there looking for a message. so we still have some soul- searching to do as democrats. >> for all the talk about the trump transition and the debate over trump's cabinet selections, there is also a big conversation inside the democratic party. and we have a guest, democratic senator brown of ohio served three consecutive terms. i want to show you something we have here. i mentioned on-air couple of days ago, and you might as well be able to talk about what we say about you. that's only fair. this was a positive point, it was interesting to see that you ran ahead of the democratic nominee in your state by several points. many people have said ohio has turned more conservative, more republican in various ways. so i don't know, a lot of people say stuff about you is a politician. we were having a discussion about how your economic positions, your defense of labor, of working people, healthcare, a lot of that may have helped you in ohio, even as

the winds may have turned. first i open the floor to you. any thoughts on that and the democrats, and what the party should be doing? >> yeah, democrats need to talk to workers better than we do. not look down on workers, talk to them. go to union halls. walk picket lines. help in organizing drives. i talk always about the dignity of work. whether you strike a badge, punch a clock, work for tips, care for an aging parent, or raise children, what we have in common. put everything else aside. what we have in common in this country is pretty much everybody, and lets you clip coupons or you are the very rich, everybody works. that's what by this. if we focus on the dignity of work, we will win elections and we will govern better in terms of pensions, wages, healthcare, in terms of combating elation and these companies that fleeced their workers and fleas consumers. >> do you think, and i am not trying to put words in your mouth, but you think that part of the democratic party that has been associated either with

selling out too much or being too cozy with wall street interests, with bankers, with elites, whatever you want to call it, and this sort of so- called elitism, which we could do two hours on debating that, do you think that stuff might have been a drag and hurt the democratic parties branded ohio, did it hurt you? >> of course he did. i don't see politics particularly as left to right, i see it as whose side are you on? i still hear about nafta in dayton or whatever, since nafta, workers have drifted away from democrats because we are not fighting for them. we don't seem to be on their side. and as i said, i don't think politics is left and right, i don't think governing is left and right. it means standing up for workers and families, standing up to the drug companies, standing up to the oil industry, standing up to the companies that outsource jobs. that is why ran seven or eight points ahead of the national ticket. because i make that contrast of

whose side you are on, and a lot of ohioans, unfortunately not quite enough this year, because of the national brand, if you will, but a lot of ohioans understand that. i think that is the case from maine to california. >> anything you notice that is been different? i manage your public term, your service, a lot of our viewers know you. anything that is changed a lot over the years in terms of how you found voters and your constituents learn about politics, misinformation, accurate information, grassroots information? what did you find out this cycle? >> all the above. this year i saw more excitement than i've seen on the ground than any year i've run. i will start with that. but it's clear that just money has become so dominant. the money made with 22 times what i spent when i beat mike dewine, incumbent senator, in 2006. more than 20 times the amount of money spent. when they spend that kind of money, i'm not wanting here. i understand that. when they spend that kind of money and they lie about

things, it's pretty darn hard to win. and that's why we got to do better, talking to workers. if we talk to workers better we will have a lot more grassroots support to go up against these moneyed interests. that is how we should govern, that's how we're going to win. >> senator, i knew you weren't lying. your voice is a little too gravelly to ever sound like you're wanting. >> i don't smoke, i never did. i just talk this way. >> it just doesn't sound money. a level of sonic analysis, sir. let me play something for you from one of your colleagues. the incoming president, as we've been covering, won the race and he will try to put him his ideas and people. but some of them might not be constitutional. then you deal with that. here is senator rand paul, your republican colleague, warning against potential misuse of the military. take a look. >> i'm not in favor of sending

the army, in uniforms, into our cities to collect people. i think it's a terrible image, and that's not will use our military for. we never have. it has actually been illegal for over 100 years to bring the army into our cities. i will not support an emergency to put the army into our cities. i think that's a huge mistake. >> do you share that opposition? and what do you say to your party, the democrats, about where to push back on things from president-elect trump, versus other things where you try to work together? >> i never thought i would say this, i agree with a lot the guy whose last name was paul. but 20 years ago i agreed with rand paul's dad, ron, who stood with me as we fought against the iraq war. eventually we will see what happens. it goes back, i'm not going to give advice tactically on which of these nominees they stand up to and fight the most, and how they do it. i do come back, my long-term vision and long-term goal is to how to make the democrats the workers party, as it was when i

was a kid. because we will win elections if we do. we will talk to people in their pocketbooks, it is limiting prescription drug prices, saving pensions, buying american whenever there are u.s. tax dollars for bridges or buying flags or whatever the things we do. it's all pretty simple. you love this country, you fight for the people who make it work. we stay on that message in 2026, 2028, it will be good years for democrats. more importantly, good for the country, without a doubt. >> really interesting. thanks for catching up with us. appreciate it. i showed chris hayes in middle school moments ago. we are going to show you why, his old friend, and our guest, maverick star interview and hamilton creator lin-manuel miranda next. e certified. it's gotta be tide. speaker: who's coming in the driveway? speaker: dad. dad, we missed you.

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others emphasize the widely known truth that america is literally a nation of immigrants. even the founding fathers came here from other countries, like alexander hamilton. who was reintroduced to many through the hit musical by lin- manuel miranda, bringing to life debates about immigrants, patriotism, money, and race the can still resonate a lot these days. miranda's political poetry made its way from off roadway to the obama white house, to some of the largest stages and streaming platforms in the world. he is our guest right now tonight, making his beat debut. we welcome lin-manuel miranda. i'm going to tell you a little bit about something i was wrong about. who am i? i'm just a lawyer and a journalist, just a person. people started coming up to me, for whatever reason, because they know me a little bit, and saying, and this is early days. i think you are at the public theater where you open, and i live in new york. ari , you're a lawyer.

you love rap. there is a hip-hop musical opera about the founding fathers, you've got to see it. and i thought that sounds really wack. i was imagining like of pbs telethon, and it then became a thing you had to see. and then i got to see it when you were still performing, which is kind of a broadway miracle nowadays if you tell someone that. and it was so astounding, so different from the terrible pitch i heard. >> yeah, that's about elevator pitch. >> and the material you are working with was so different and dense in so many ways, and you did so many interesting things, which is why i believe my view resonated beyond just the people who like each of those component parts. as you know, it became a sensation. so we pulled some of the early bits together, including you going to a white house kind of poetry jam event. i just want to show a little

bit of that original moment early on, then michelle obama later talking about it. >> i'm thrilled the white house called me. thank you. >> we were blown away. we were sitting there, there are probably shots of us sitting there with our mouth open going who is this dude? what is he up to? >> that was quite a journey in four frames. >> yeah, what was the interplay, what did it mean to not only get into the white house, but have that reception then, as an interplay with a show that is about the white house, about america? >> yeah, it's funny, i would back with such admiration to 2009. me, because at that moment i

only have the 16 bars about hamilton. i have not even finished writing the quarries yet. i finished writing the quarries for the occasion of being invited to perform at the white house. and i had one musical under my belt, in the heights. they invited me to perform a number from that. but they said in less you have anything about the american experience. i said i have one thing about the american experience. i had just started writing. and like you hear it, i introduce as an album, it wasn't even a show yet in my head. i am sort of amazed at the bravery of that 29-year-old me. no stammering, because i made the mistake of looking the president in the eye. that's too terrifying. and looking around the room until i found my focus. >> you use the hamilton writing to completely meet people where they are. i was in all the first time i saw it.

if you come in cold, you get a great show. if you, like a lot of good art, if you learn and study and know a little bit more, you might get another layer. >> if you know about the federalist papers that's like an easter egg. >> yeah, and i have notes here on some of the ways you touch on these references. very early on, you had prodigy, only 19 but my mind is older. the cabinet rap battles are steeped in both the original oratory of that era and a link to hip-hop. biggie you give much love to in many ways, some references, spelling. jay-z is in there, brandy and monica are in there. so we made something for you. you've probably seen pieces of this. but you quote all of these greats, from the founding fathers to the greats of hip- hop. to then build something else. you were quoting lyrics, fair? now, and politics, isn't it crazy? everybody is quoting you. >> i'm terrified of who is

about to appear. >> let's take a look. >> what was it that lin-manuel miranda said? the room where it happens? isn't it great to be in the room where it happens? >> i'm not in the room where it happens. >> for all of us, whether we are in the senate, the governor's homes, or with the president himself, you think of the line from hamilton. history has its eyes on you. >> and this is certainly the room where it happens. >> this is the room where it happens. >> so we may not live to see the glory, as the song from the musical, hamilton goes. let us grandly join the fight. >> every little girl and boy in america is going to know anything and everything is possible as the first black woman will be in the room where it happens in the u.s. supreme court. >> that's pretty funny. >> you created a language. >> i anticipated, i hope that

hip-hop hit fans would like it. i did not anticipate how those in the halls of power would grab on to all of these songs about power. because the room where it happens, as you noticed, the most quoted one. and that is what everyone is trying to get into. the fact that that song is about the deals that happen in the back room, and it is narrated the one guy who wasn't in the room. i think it really speaks to politicians, man. you've got mitt romney and amy quoting it, that's pretty crazy. >> funny question i was thinking about, we've had the opportunity to talk to a lot of different people in the arts, at different stages of their career. adversity, darkness, sadness, loss, these are big themes. your art, i don't know you as a person, personally, but your art is so positive and hopeful. >> i mean, everyone hamilton dies, i mean, it depends on how

you want it. >> that's the story, but i can argue that with you. grading on the curve of how that story has been told, which i alluded to earlier, to how you tell it. i would say that is one of the more positive versions, the losses, on the stuff you're dealing with. of all of the canon of 100 years, and of course, organically or otherwise, you can tell is how it happens. you end up being pulled into more children's stories, more disney, a largely positive nature. they deal with serious themes, but i'm curious, artistically, is that positivity a product of your natural state, your goals, or do you not even notice it? >> well, i think we unconsciously make, you know, i think i'm in the arts because as much as my parents didn't want me to be in the arts, they love the arts. and by their love of the arts they showed me something i really wanted to do. and my dad, as a kid, took me to every action movie and every

musical. his favorite movies are like total recall and the unsinkable molly brown. and my mother loves every sad, intense, depressing -- she took me to last tango in paris, and schindler's list. i think unconsciously i'm always trying to make the thing the both my parents will like. we will sing, dance, were going to have a good time. but you will think about mortality and you will be crying by the end of it. >> we will get into worriers like this. you have so many different choices. so when you make choices that are considered unusual, or some would say odd, or, of all the things, that thing, this might be in that category. maybe that makes it even better. but tell us about that. >> sure, i think that when it comes to writing some winglike unoriginal score, like my cowriter and i did for this album, you have to go with the ideas that don't leave you alone. because they got to sustain

you. if they are raising their hand in your head and going hey, that movie you saw when you are four, that's your roman empire and you should probably do something with it instead of just watching it a lot. >> so, from your personal obsession. not everyone would love this, it. >> i mean, yeah. i think everyone starts with if i think there's something here, hopefully someone else out there it resonates with them. >> we could do a little trivial pursuit, maybe someday this will be an actual trivial pursuit question. what do these people have in common? billie porter, ghost face killer, buster rimes, and lauren hill. >> they are all on worriers. our concept. it is quite the mad libs. i think that was the fun, taking this iconic movie that is been referenced so much in hip-hop culture and global culture, and it was set in 1979 . and really using that era of new york as our musical playground and landscape.

and again, because there are so many characters and so many gangs in that movie, we get to play with all right, what's the best energy for 96th street, what's the best energy for the south bronx? and that's a really fun assignment if you're a new yorker. >> thinks watching the beat we can. be sure to join us weekdays at 6:00 p.m. eastern. the beat on msnbc.

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you can save. good evening, and welcome to politics nation.