and you told them the truth about what happened to her. >> they ask in certain ways and when i told him i will not hide anything from you and i will tell you as much as i can, the oldest son, he told me, my dad tricked us. and i said yes. >> reporter: your dad did not tell you the truth but we will. >> yes. >> reporter: the truth about a woman who never gave up on her cell for the future she wanted. edition of dateline. i am andrea canning. thank you for watching. . good morning, and welcome to the sunday edition of morning joe weekend. it was another fast-moving newsweek. there some of the conversations you might've missed.

>> dave, what more can you tell us about the new choice with matt gaetz now to the side , stepping in, the former florida attorney general. we know she's been a defender of donald trump in the legal sense during impeachment and also on television, very close to the president, one of his true loyalist. what kind of attorney general would she be at the national level? >> thank you for the dramatic experience of my statewide election loss in 2010. i lost in the democratic primary. pam was running on the she likes to say that she beat me and then hired me. that gives me too much credit. i didn't even make it to the big game because i lost in the primary. even though i endorsed my democratic opponent who ran against her in the january election, she appointed me as the drugs are to shut down all the pill mills that made florida the drug supplier for the rest of the country. she reached across county lines, she got a lot of support

from her fellow republicans. there's one story where there was a party leader in southwest florida who got in her face and thought he could be so gold as to put a finger in her face and say how dare you appoint democrat dave ehrenberg to this position. she responded by putting a finger in his face. she is loyal. and the fact that she is loyal to her friends and people who work for her is an explanation of why trump picked her, because she is loyal to donald trump. but this loyalty, this love for donald trump, it's a real love. it's not the lindsey graham, kevin mccarty kind of love where they praise him in front of his face and then make fun of him behind his back. she is a true believer. but with that said, she is also someone who believes in the rule of law. she is a prosecutor for 20 years, attorney general for 8 years. even though she engages in some political rhetoric, i do not believe she will be matt gaetz

2.0. she's not going to burn it all down. she's not going to put forward fake charges. we become used to that by now, but in the end, i do not think you will see anthony fauci or adam schiff walk out in handcuffs like donald trump and the maga universe want. >> inmate john durum look like an absolute fool. and when they tried to prosecute the prosecutors, investigate the investigators, they were the ones who ended up being damaged politically. so let's pull back. let's look at not only gaetz, but also toasty gabbard and pete hegseth. we have susan glass for a second talk about what this means for the nomination process. but i think for a lot of people in washington, a lot of people going, okay, well -- in this first test, there were enough

republican senators to stand up and say, no, to a very bad pick for attorney general, and now wondering, who is next? a lot of people talk about pete hegseth. i actually think toasty gabbard will be the one that four, five, six republicans just can't allow in dni. >> it's interesting for people in the intelligence community but also on the national security side. you are right that it is toasty gabbard that is provoking or concern actually and pete hegseth is, maybe because people feel like department of defense can work around pete hegseth. maybe it's because you still got the secretary of state, marco rubio, and the national security advisor they can mitigate what happens at dod. but toasty gabbard, what i have been told is, one thing she is not particularly famous for is keeping secrets, so there's an irony there of putting someone that has that reputation at the

head of the intelligence community. but dave, that -- what you think or ideology is when it comes to the justice department? what is it she wants to do to reshape the justice department? >> you know, i think that she's going to pursue trump's initiatives on immigration, and that will be controversial. the mass roundup of undocumented migrants. but she will also proceed with strong policies against fentanyl. she will go after anti-semitism on campus, so i applaud her for that. but she is not a revolutionary. she is not going to burn the place down. she is someone who has ties to people on both sides of the aisle. she works within the system. and i know there are democrats were still upset about the pick, but keep in mind, sally yates was not walking through that door. you are not going to see eric holder become attorney general. donald trump made it clear who

he was going to appoint, and the fact that matt gaetz was rejected josie of guardrails again. and so i think this pick is about as good as you're going to get from a democratic perspective knowing that at least she is not going to put forward fake indictments to go after trump's enemies. yeah, she will do stuff that is controversial, but in the end, she is not matt gaetz. >> stated attorney for palm beach county florida dave ehrenberg. thank you very much. one thing we need to look at is that whole trump university payments and her supportive him, and we will be following that part of the story as well. i'm sure that will be talked about during this process. let's bring in the ever mention staff writer at the new yorker, susan glasser. >> you talk about the explosion of matt gaetz and other early lessons in trump 2.0, and you write in part, this. >> trump overwhelms, the exhaust . the first few weeks of trump redux indicates that this will be more the case during the

second four years in office, yet it is striking how little having lived through it before provides in the way it was him for how to navigate the onslaught once again. tuning out will be the answer for me, i suspect. an understandable response, but hardly a desirable one. at least on the point of view of democracy survival. remember all that earnest discussion about the platforming in 2021? a certain number of liberals probably slept better at night as a result, if the assumption was that trump was a force in american politics or that excluding him from front page coverage would somehow erase his political appeal to a large swath of the population, well, that was not correct. and susan, i couldn't agree with you more. >> so susan, it's interesting, there seems to be a balancing act when you talk not only

reporters, but also the journalists covering donald trump when they are saying just what you said. he has to be covered every day. you can't ignore it. you can't turn your head from it . at the same time, also saying, he said this yesterday to democrats. we got to figure out a better way to do this. in fact, if everything is a five alarm fire, then nothing is a five alarm fire. how do we best respond and keep things in perspective to keep voters engaged on the issues that matter the most? >> i think that really is the challenge. it is exhausting. we are not anywhere even near the inauguration of donald trump and i feel like every day i am having a sort of 2018 flashback. we are right in the middle of the trump new cycle again. that was the whole reason i started this column in the new yorker in 2018 was because by thursday, you couldn't remember what had happened on tuesday. and this is certainly one of those weeks where that was the case.

i defy you to remember all the wild appointments the donald trump is made just this week, stocking his cabinet with a full roster of fox news contributors. you know, i'm glad we are talking about toasty gabbard again, one of the most extraordinary sort of outside of any kind of norms for american government appointments i have ever seen. this is someone who not only met secretly with the syrian leader, but has repeatedly amplified russian talking point throughout and ever since russia's invasion of ukraine. really remarkable stuff. and yet, it is hard to focus on that when you are also focusing on the prospect of matt gaetz as attorney general. i also think that trump has once again failed dates, but he is once again succeeding in a way in redefining what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. the idea, for example, promoting pam bondi as a

longtime supporter of the rule of law, when she also was at donald trump's side throughout his challenge of the 2020 election. the first time in american history that we have ever had a president essentially seek to overturn the lawful results of an election. is that really the rule of law you are supporting there? i agree with you, joe. the five alarm fire doesn't work for me, for you, for anybody. but you know, it's our job not to look at outcomes as journalists, and focus on making sure that we are documenting this for history and to give people the context and perspective they need on what is happening. >> suleman, at the last part, have we not normalized some extreme stuff, like the fact that bondi did help to lead the charge about trump's bogus charges about the election was rigged? because gaetz was so

extreme, she seems normal , when in the normal course of things, we would be saying -- wait a minute. we need to really dig into your misrepresentations of the vote in 2020. but now she almost gets a free pass because she is not gaetz. talk about how that becomes problematic. >> i so agree with you. i think that what trump does is he shifts the contours and defines the terms of the debate of what is acceptable and what is not. okay, fine. maybe even pro trump republican senators can agree that serious allegations of sexual misconduct might disqualify you from being the attorney general of the united states. so we have shifted our perspective of what is acceptable and what is not. i would also say to people that looking at trump's potential appointments at the next level down these agencies, remember, trump is now essentially proposing to install a large

number of his personal lawyers, people who were fighting the justice department on his behalf as the people who would oversee it. he explicitly talks about his agenda at the justice department as seeking to stop the, quote, weaponization of it against him. we saw in doing our book on the first trump presidency, a three line for him has always been pressuring those who work for him to seek to use the instruments of the justice department and the fbi on his own behalf. i think that is the question you are probably going to want to see senators asking directly of all these appointees. but this is not the republican party of eight years ago. that's the other thing. we are not two weeks into the trump era. we are eight years and two weeks into the trump era, and it is a much more compliant party. >> staff writer at the new yorker, susan glasser. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> morning joe weekend will be right back.

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so one of donald trump's longtime allies is actually's eking out against the president- elect's plan to use the military as part of that mass deportation of undocumented migrants. is republican senator rand paul of kentucky said yesterday in an interview with newsmax. >> i am not in favor of sending the army in unifinto our cities to collect people. i think it is a terrible image and that is not what we use our military for. we never had. it's actually been illegal for over 100 years to bring the army into our city. i will not support an emergency

to put the army into our cities. i think that is a huge mistake. >> elise, i hope this is right. you are a libertarian/conservative. and that is -- that ideological strain runs through, still runs through this republican party. i would guess that is not just one standalone center. that is a big chunk of republicans who voted for republican candidates, donald trump's senate or house members that have always warned about the military getting into the streets of american cities. >> i will give senator rand paul props for coming out and saying it in opposition to donald trump and staking out his territory, as he's going to be the new head of the tenant homeland security committee. and of the republicans, hopefully, can follow his lead and say, yes, we want violent criminals removed from the country. we don't want criminals that

are using the military in a way it was not intended the founders to be used. >> mr. secretary, when you look at the plans is a been floated out there, which were talking about getting 11 million immigrants out of this country by force in many cases, what are you expecting, what are you preparing for here? >> you have to be prepared for donald trump attempting to deport that many people. you never know at donald trump, whether it is lester -- he said we were going to build the wall and mexico is going to pay for it. of course, th built. mexico didn't pay for it. but this has been a fantasy of his. this mass deportation for a while. and it's true that he has a team now around him with her experience and were know how on how to get this done. and a supreme court that is more supportive of him. so there is already significant pushback from other legal groups providing services also to undocumented immigrants who are in the process of trying to

become documented. i think there's going to be pushback from local police chiefs who don't want the police departments to become immigration agents, because they feel that is going to make communities less safe, and i agree with you all that, to the extent that the administration sticks with a much more limited plan of people who are violent criminals, you know, it was good to see justice for the family, and people agree with that. if there is someone who commits a crime like that, no matter what their status is, they should be punished for that. but i think when you get into, for instance, saying somebody that has a speeding ticket from 20 years ago who otherwise is a productive, good member of a community, i don't think that is in the same category. and i also don't think that dreamers, for instance, who know no other country, should be deported. >> if he tries it, there's going to be a tremendous amount of blowback.

not just from democrats, but i think for moderates and some republicans. >> this is a tough issue to sort of sort through politically if you are looking at democrats and republicans, because what is set on campaign trails often does not match what happens in reality. and donald trump, when he talked about building the wall, it was actually lindsey graham, and it was, i believe, john cornyn. but there was one republican senator after another republican senator that said, building the wall -- building the wall is not going to take care of the problem. that was a '17 '18 worm republicans controlled congress. let's dig even deeper. people don't remember, barack obama was hammered by the hispanic community, by his panic leaders, because he deported 2.1 million illegal immigrants. 80% of them, by the way, violent criminals.

donald trump -- if my count is right here, deported 1.2 million. and that wasn't for a lack of trying. again, it's not just having people on the ground to push the deportation. there's 1 million different things that have to go on. >> tony gonzalez who represents a good part of south texas, including areas right along the border, mentioned that he had inquired how many folks fit that bill of violent criminals and that it was several hundred thousand. the number that we are talking about is not 11 or 12 million. the vast majority of people who were here were undocumented -- yes, they may have come in and they broke the law when they came in, but they have law- abiding, good productive members. people who go to the same church, whose kids go to the same school. >> can we also say, help work run family restaurants, make businesses work and a lot of

these -- these towns -- main streets across america. again, obviously, they are violent criminals, if they are criminals that have committed serious crimes, i think 95% of americans want them out. but if someone has been for 20 years, been a law-abiding citizen, i think that's when it gets more difficult politically for republicans, for some -- again. if we have the images that we saw in 2017, that is a political loser for any party that tries to do it. >> donald trump could deport a couple hundred thousand violent criminals. gives him a win. it gives them plenty of images. it gives him, i've done this, delivered on a promise, and it doesn't muddle everything that he has done by taking it too far. so i would use the example -- the counterexample, building the wall. donald trump didn't build the wall, but he built enough and it showed his voters and

americans that he was trying, didn't penalize them for it. this could be the same kind of political deal. >> up next, we talked to ed from the financial times about his new column -- trump's demolition of the u.s. state. that will be coming up after a quick break. quick break. moderate to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture. now i have skyrizi. ♪ i've got places to go and i'm feeling free. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me.♪ and now i'm back in the picture. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi helped visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and with skyrizi, many were in remission at 12 weeks, at 1 year, and even at 2 years. don't use if allergic. serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur. before treatment, get checked for infections and tb.

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patients are going to love to see sensodyne on the shelf. let's get to ed luce, his latest piece in the financial times. it's entitled trump's demolition of the u.s. state, and you write, in part, it is time to study caligula, the most notorious of roman emperors killed what was left of the republic and centralized authority in himself. donald trump does not need to make his senator, it will be enough to continue -- rome was not destroyed by outsiders, it

was demolition work -- it was the work of barbarians from within. p hegseth, trump's nominee to run america's sprawling military bureaucracy, was considered too much of a security risk in 2021 to protect capitol hill from protesters. matt gaetz, trump's pick for u.s. attorney general, reportedly won the mar-a-lago beauty contest by declaring, yeah, i will go over there and start cutting laughing had. given tulsi gabbard's close affinity to vladimir putin's russia, she would be unlikely to get a low-level security clearance in regular times. now she will be custodian to america's most classified secrets. rome was not built in a day, as the study goes, but it squandered its spirit with remarkable speed. and i think -- i think what you're talking about also is, democracy itself is imperfect,

and also fragile. >> yes, extremely fragile. and the republic, you know, is only as good as the people upholding it. these, i think are charlatans. you have got very deliberate choices. people like rfk jr. an else. peter hegseth i guess could continue as an anchor. matt gaetz is not going to get a job anywhere else. you know, he's not going to get a job running a medical center at some university campus. these are people therefor who are chosen for their loyalty. they have nowhere else to go. other than to demonstrate their loyalty to trump. and so i think there is a larger patent here. it's not just that you are getting charlatans being picked for these really important roles. it is that you have a dismantling of the federal government. have a disabling of the federal government, which is a very explicit part of elon musk's mandate -- elon musk, i think,

being the de facto sort of vice president or copresident in terms of a lot of these selections. has always had an explicit desire not just to cut spending or to get rid of regulatory agencies, which of course creates enormous conflicts of interest with his business, but to disable a vast institution of the federal government that he believes gets in the way of the heroic wealth makers such as him. so we do have larger method in the madness than just trump choosing people who look good on tv. i think we have a very clear ideological agenda here to demolish the effectiveness of government. >> of course. i was saying, with the justice department officials saying on the background -- in that one case. but there is a bigger thing going on here, and it lines up with what donald trump has said

in the campaign, which is he was talking about bringing the fcc into the white house, talking about bringing all these other places. their attitudes on secretary of date was, you know what? they can go around, smile, shake people's hands, we are going to be running it out of the oval office. again, you can read applebaum's twilight of democracy three or four years ago. and what she said was, if you want to disable the state, the quote, deep state, however you want to put it, what you do is, you undermine agencies by replacing competency with loyalty. that is part one. for part two, there is a real belief in trump world that, you know, it is like louis xiv, who said, i am the state. that is the attitude trump is the state. and so he wants to know why --

if you look at these pics, why do i need confidence? were going to be running it all out of the oval office. which, of course, for many, many americans, you know, 41 point nine percent of americans, that is deeply troubling. >> i'm most concerned if we are talking in terms of -- we had a brilliant focus on how liberal democracy becomes illiberal democracy. sort of the hungarian model that is so beloved by many around trump. i am most concerned by peter hegseth. trump's real complaint about the pentagon in 2020 was that it resisted marc millie , they resisted the insurrection act. they resisted the politicization of the military. and trump came out of that saying, i was betrayed by the military. they did not swear an oath of loyalty to me. they kept saying their oath of loyalty was to the

constitution. well, pete hegseth fully agrees with trump . he thinks it is a woke dei, politically correct organization, the pentagon, that needs to be cleaned out. and three and four star generals need to be vetted to check their loyalty to the commander-in-chief. not as the abstract, to this one. as you know, there are certain people like the fbi director who i think, chris ray, i think trump really does want to remove, and god for bid, replace with somebody like cache patel. but there are protections for a lot of these jobs. there are certain fixed contracts. for generals, you can get rid of them as commander-in-chief. you can get rid of them for whatever reason you like, and you can promote a corporal if you find that corporal more congenial. you can just have them leapfrog several levels and become generals based on their loyalty

to you. and that is pete hegseth's role, i think. and that is the most worrying, therefore, to the future of the rule of law in this republic. coming up, democratic senator gerard brown will be coming back to talk about what went wrong in his bid for re- election and what democrats need to do in order to move forward. morning joe weekend will be back with that. ck with that. n. ♪♪ fun recip... (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound)

let's bring it democratic senator sherrod brown of ohio. he lost his bid for another term earlier this election. it's been fascinating to listen to these after action reports about why democrats went wrong. your race, though, your spent not just your campaign but your entire professional life focused on workers, the things the democrats say oh, we should have focused more on working people across racial and gender lines. so what is your assessment, not just of what happened in your race were you one well ahead of kamala harris, but with with the national party needs to be thinking about now? >> i wrote a book about the senate call desk 88, a history of the senators who held my desk. i tried to keep a historic perspective, and claire knows this very well. the democrats -- this wasn't a one year, even a four year problem.

the democrats have drifted away from workers -- workers have drifted away from democrats. i grew up in ohio with the sons and daughters of workers and autoworkers and electricians and millwright and carpenters and laborers and bricklayers. and those jobs began to move south in the nonunion states, then they began to move overseas because the presidents of both parties, frankly, betrayed those workers with these trade agreements. we got to talk directly to workers. we've got to restore the tradition and the history of democrats being the party of workers. not just union workers, whether you punch a clock or swipe a badge or work for tips or care for an aging parent raising children, we got to be that party and focus on the decade of work. we didn't do that over the last 30 years, and we paid this price were far too many workers left the democrats. as you said, i ran 7.5 points ahead of the national ticket. you can't do much better than

that. but when we have the historic perspective of workers leaving our party, we got a serious problem. >> senator, when i looked at the races even a year out, i said, well, sherrod brown is going to be okay in ohio. the guy is connected to ohio better than anybody. you are one of the democrats, and he's going to figure out a way to win, because he has such a connection with working-class voters. and so when you lose, that sort of suggest that the democratic party is in deep, deep trouble across the midwest, the industrial midwest. i want to know, what did you hear from workers when you are campaigning who would have voted for you four years ago, eight years ago, who voted for barack obama in 2012 and 2008? what did they tell you? why were they leaving the democratic party?

which i totally agree with, but what was the got answer that they that made you kind of realize, man, we have lost working americans? >> even with the accomplishments we talk about, it's 1 million veterans, 40,000 in ohio will already gotten care because of our bill on the exposure to vern pitts, even with the pensions, we save 100,000 pensions in ohio. that wall street essentially took away, if you will. even with the prescription drug at $35 a month or $35 a month ceiling for insulin, even with those things, it was hard to start the conversation, because particularly in a small town in rural ohio, the city like i grew up in a 50,000, the midwest, as you know, joe, is dotted with a lot of small industrial cities and provide a minimum, and provided a decent middle-class wage. you couldn't even start the conversation about being a

democrat and many of those counties where the bottom dropped out. 10 or 15 points worse than even six years ago. so until we start talking directly to workers and listen to workers about where -- why they have left, where they have gone, they don't necessarily love trump. they just put the democratic rant at some damage. >> why though specifically? what do you hear over and over again specifically? why have they turned against democrats the way they have? >> well, we don't think they are the party the represents of anymore. you know, i saw the transgender ads, i saw that. one of my favorite -- i will do the whole story. the story of dr. king is, when he was assassinated, he was in memphis because he was there talking about the digging of work. and he can better than any historic figure weave together civil rights, human rights, and worker rights. we don't do that. we are the party of double

rights, as we should be. and i will never ever back off. i voted for marriage equality 30 years ago, i was one of the few that did. i will never back off that. but with the one thing about worker rights is it binds all of us, except for the coupon clippers who occasionally come on your show, joe. 90% of the people in this country, what binds us together is we work together. whatever kind of work you do, we should be talking to that. we should center -- we will talk about other things. we talked a lot about abortion rights, of course. we should center a discussion on workers and how they are the centerpiece of our country. they are what binds us as a nation. >> by the way, the boston red sox over the past three years offering prospects coupons to the buffet in pensacola, florida. all-you-can-eat buffets, thinking that that was somehow

going to get otani. maybe it will give some hope. >> we are going to get soto. no doubt about it. >> come on. >> of course. but it's not going to end up with the guardians. >> does barnicle understand the red sox fans have become almost as bad as yankee fans? does he understand that fact? >> thinking of finding a way to bind you altogether. >> you've done it. you've done it. >> it cuts like a knife. >> claire and i -- can i loop for the americans teams, the cardinals in the guardians. real middle america baseball. >> listen, i am totally down with you on what you're talking about, the dignity of work. but the other unaddressed topic here that we've got to expose is that most of these guys you are looking right now think baseball is only played in new york and boston.

they do not understand -- >> it's just the east coast. go ahead. >> come on, you guys. you are such snobs when it comes to base well. >> it is boring. >> you should let the woman talk. all you guys interrupt claire. the fact is, the cardinals of the second best franchise in major league history in terms world championships. >> i like to say the guardians do. but you guys a moment really clear about that. >> i got to get this question in. you are back there, you are walking on the floor, you're talking to your colleagues. how confident are you that there are more than three votes to stop matt gaetz? >> i don't know that for sure. i'm pretty confident. i'm afraid that you are just talking to colleagues last night that gate is so bad that republicans will jettison him and then bring in the other terrible cast of characters,

maybe making a path for him. i don't know. i am not going to vote on these anymore, but longer term, we got to get our act together and fight for workers and focus on workers. coming up, two time emmy award-winning actor ted dance and will join us in studio to discuss his new show, a man on the inside. ted dance and will join us next on morning joe weekend. and a grandmother of two. about five years ago, i was working full time, i had an awful amount of things to take care of. i saw the commercials for prevagen. i started taking it. and it helped! i noticed my memory was better. there was definite improvement. people say to me, "barbara, you don't miss a beat!" prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription.

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we're joined now. wait a minute, this look so fun. i'm trying to think of what -- like, when you go into the pitch for this, you are saying, picture what show and what show mixed with what show? >> it's tough, i'm sure. he did the good place, and he is very good at that trojan horse think of making you laugh , you know, isn't this funny? and it is funny to see someone my age trying to be good with, you know, camera glasses. but then, you start talking about aging, you start a real conversation which we don't usually have in this country about aging. so it is -- i am so happy. >> and what an untapped well of opportunity for laughs, and that is people who are at a later stage in life who have a different attitude toward things. >> it is, but it's never at them. the laughter never comes that there fence, you know? i mean, we go deep. we go

memory loss, and it is really, really sweet. people after they see this immediately call their parents, which is a good sign. >> your resume is about compare, been a fan forever, cheers was a defining show for me. but this is also something that you are still doing. you are still working. you are young man, of course, but just tell us the parts of this role that resonate with you. >> yes. i decided i really would love -- realized i wanted people to find out what it was like to be funny at every age of my life. and it gets harder, and harder. you know, age is not necessarily -- aging is not necessarily easy, but i met jane fonda about the same time i was turning 70, she was turning 80, and my wife mary was about to work with her on a film. i was thinking, oh, can i find a big spot?

and i watched her, and she has her foot on the gas pedal. she is 86, and all she does is stop -- you know, she just goes out in the world and tries to make things that are, and it's like, oh, yeah. there's not an expiration date. >> i been trying to prove this for a lot of women over 50 and letting my platform know your value. we have women in their 50s, 60s, 70s, 90s, over 100. they are actually still reaching their greatest success later in life. >> it's a great message for young women and young men that, oh, you can be creative and contribute to life until forever. watch me, kind of thing. >> it is the message for the younger generation. you are talking about, you know, trying to handle your spy glasses. here's your character, charles, testing out your new spy gear. >> against the fruit guy in

conversation. remember, casual, confident. just observing. >> hello. i was wondering if you could answer a question i had about your peaches. >> sure. >> you do not need to be that close. >> sorry. i travel the world looking for great peaches. i'm part of a peach club. >> were you always in a club? >> stop talking to me. you are talking to no one. >> i just love peaches, man. i will take all your peaches. >> really? >> did you just buy all of his peaches? >> yeah. >> i am not reimbursing you for this. >> so fun. so what do you hope -- i love the people call their parents after this. is that what you hope people take away from this? >> yes, yes. we tell our kids, you can be anything you want, and then we stop saying that to ourselves. and there's no age limit to that.

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welcome back to a second hour of "morning joe weekend" on this sunday morning. let's jump back into some of this week's important conversations. >> let's start with your piece, where you talked about the nomination of gaetz ending was actually, well, perhaps some guardrails being put up in the second term. what do you say? >> well, i think the important thing now is that we sort of move away from our free-floating nightmare of what donald trump might be and start dealing with the reality of donald trump, where it is sometimes concerning and it is sometimes dangerous. and that requires focus. it also requires understanding what the constraints are on the ground. we worried trump would have no guardrails. but in the past few weeks we have seen since his -- since the election that his margin of victory was pretty small, that the margin by which the republicans control the house is smaller than it was, that the

margin of republicans controlling the senate is just three or four votes. so a few people going the other way, can change the way things turned out. and that's what we have seen in the gaetz case, but even before that we saw trump's pick to lead the senate, rick scott, be defeated by john thune. we have seen mitch mcconnell say, nope, we're not going to do recess appointments. you're going to have to go through the senate, and we have seen some real pressure on his other candidates. and it is by no means a certain thing that hegseth or tulsi gabbard or rfk jr. are actually going to sail through this. and trump's not going to get to be the i can do whatever i want president that he wanted to be. and there are other, finally, checks and balances out there. you've talked about them earlier in the show. things like markets, and businesses, and some of the plans that trump has are things

that they are not going to react well to, and that's going to put pressure on him, and we have already seen that too, with his treasury secretary pick. he hasn't been able -- howard lutnick wanted that job. he's over at commerce now. and he's trying to get somebody that's going to be acceptable to wall street. not because he's feeling charitable to wall street, but because he knows he needs the support. >> right, we have talked about bill clinton this morning already and robert rubin. there is that famous part in the woodward's book about first couple of years of -- the first year, actually, of bill clinton's presidency where at some point he wants to expand the programs, expand spending, greenspan comes in and says, no, you can't, the bond markets are going to go crazy, it is going to tank your presidency and bill clinton kind of, like, yells, wait, are yoyou telling me thaty presidency is going to be held hostage to the markets? and rubin goes, yeah, greenspan

goes, yeah, that's exactly what i'm telling you. and by the way, he raised taxes, republicans came in and cut spending, and we had four years of balanced budget. so you're right, some of the outward pressures actually sometimes end up doing great things for america, but, david, i want to follow up on something, and i would love for everybody here to talk. we're not going to have commercials this entire hour. sorry, comcast overlords. but i think this is the most -- one of the most important questions that democrats face right now in a second donald trump term. and it is not about ideology. we'll ulz have the debates on ideology and my position is, yes, i think the democratic party should move to the center, that shouldn't surprise anybody, i'm a conservative. but we'll have those ideological debates. and at the end it not so much about ideology as it is connecting with voters. but you said something that i

heard -- was going to say mayor pete, secretary pete buttigieg say yesterday that we just played a clip of john fetterman saying earlier that mika said on monday, which is, we can't set our hair on fire every time. if everything is a five-alarm fire, nothing is a five-alarm fire, we have to learn from the first eight years of donald trump. so, easier said than done. but i love what you said about, you know, the things we have to balance. could you go a little deeper on that? then i would love to hear from the table. >> yeah, look, i think if we take the threats that trump poses seriously, then we need to keep a cool head, focus on them, understand what our leverage is, understand who our allies are. you know, if trump wants to go and deport 10 million people and that causes chaos in the streets, it is also going to cause problems for small

businesses. so they may be the allies. it will cause problems for big businesses. they may be the allies. it is going to cause problems in specific republican-controlled districts. those people may be the allies. the markets may be the allies. we have to understand that and come up with a strategy for each of the things that we think is a problem. but, you know something, just to wrap up, you know, i was listening to your show as i was driving into the studio and your discussion earlier about inequality, growing inequality cuts right to the core of it. democrats have an opportunity. they need to listen to trump, and set the narrative by explaining to people who are in the working class and in the middle class that every single day from now on trump's doing something to hurt them. and we need to explain it in a way that resonates with them and where we're in a real dialogue, understanding what is most important to them. but the biggest ally democrats

have right now is that trump's agenda is antibusiness, antigrowth, antiworker, pro inflation, against all the things they thought they were electing. so, let's communicate that. let's take back the narrative. >> all right, the daily beast david rothkopf, thank you so much. his latest piece available to read online right now. so congressman, the same question to you. how do we move forward as a country, how do democrats move forward in really what's a 50/50 nation right now? but in a nation where democrats have gotten more disconnected from work class americans across the board. >> i think what you said, what david said is right. we first need to calm down and take a deep breath. it is not even thanksgiving. as fetterman said, trump does

not take office july january 20th. we need to calm down and democrats need to stop saying how could you vote for donald trump and start asking why did you vote for donald trump and figure out what it is we missed that we lost the presidency, lost the senate, lost the house. we got to take a deep breath and listen to the people. you talked about bill clinton earlier, i love bill clinton. >> he listened. >> he talked to people, regular people. i remember when trump first got elected, i took office when trump first took office and there was a big post mortem, what happened, and the union guy said the democrats used to show up at the bars and show up at the church picnics. we don't see them anymore. we don't talk to the people. we got to talk to the people and listen to the people. >> we'll have much more of "morning joe weekend" right after the break. "morning joe weekend" right after the break. ivity protectio. patients are going to love to see sensodyne on the shelf. ♪ announcer: at bombas, we dream of comfort and softness. which is why we make the best socks and slippers in the history of feet.

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let me set the record straight. are people born wicked? or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? oh! -ah! [ laughter ] no need to respond. that was rhetorical. hm, hmm. welcome back to "morning joe weekend." let's pick up with the conversation we were having just

before the break. >> so, lauren, so let's take an issue that is very important to you, very important to mika, very important to millions and millions of americans. and that's reproductive rights, which actually come down to supreme court justices for the most part. i think it's good for not just democrats, everybody to understand, a lot of times people don't vote on that issue, so you take care of the issues that you hear about when you knock on doors, whether it is public safety, whether it is inflation or whatever, you get to influence these issues that matter the most to you, but not before you do what you hear about when you knock on doors. that's not to say there aren't so many people that care about reproductive rights. i'm sighing, saying, though, t can be true at one time. >> two things were true in the election. you are ballot initiatives that

won in places where trump also won. there was zigzagging around the ballots for people in ways we never anticipated. look at arizona, any of these places. where people have those opportunities to kind of do both, right, to vote to secure their freedoms, they did, they chose to do that. it was clearly very animating for a lot of women. but for, you know, then there is this, like, you know, 1.5% margin that trump wins by and in all districts like yours, more significant, also next door to him, gillad who won -- who flipped a district, similar strategy. she talked about the border in hempstead, an issue important to her constituents. i want to take issue with one thing with david from before, though, i feel like it matters, he said you know we need to explain to voters more about blah, blah, blah. no. this is the problem. we keep trying to explain to voters and tell them why they're wrong about things. they didn't understand that the economy was actually better than it is.

well, that's not a thing you can explain. you either feel it or you don't, right? so, i think this is part of it. like we do need to diversify in a serious way our political consultant class outside of all my friends from the cities. we do need people from around the country. and last thing, my friend adam frisch was saying yesterday, campaigning in colorado, the dignity, dignity, which i think is what you're talk about in terms of wages and the quality of life, people want to be treated with dignity. and i think that is, like, a baseline that we have to figure out how to do better. >> 60% of americans did not graduate from college. and people that don't graduate from college can have great lives and great jobs and we need to be supporting them and treating them with dignity and respect and the worth that they have. in america, all men and women are created equal. that's what we're aspiring to all the time. >> you talk about instead of

explaining to voters, having voters explain to you. when i ran my campaign, i knocked on, my first time, 10,000 doors. after knocking on six, seven, eight doors, you know this, i didn't -- i never took a poll. i never spent a dime on polls. they september kept saying you know -- i know what they think. i'm knocking on doors. they tell me what they think. when i hear the same thing over and over and over again, i don't have to explain to them what is important, they explain to me what's important. and the second thing is, one of the best bits of campaign advice i ever got, i got from a guy who said, listen, here's the deal. go into a room, don't talk to people. just sit there and listen. and keep listening. and if you are really smart, take out a note pad, and start writing down what they say. and when they walk away from you, they will say that is such a smart, articulate young man. it is listening.

>> yeah. and one of the questions for democrats is, like, what to listen to. because if you think about the -- about the experience that we just went through, the last time there was a competitive democratic presidential primary, i think looking back on it, if you worked for kamala harris or involved in the democratic party, you may say fairly in that moment in 2019, that the online discussion, what was happening on twitter and other social media platforms was the loudest voices in the democratic party and they were far to the left of where the center of the democratic party is. >> we said that in a real time 2019, you and i on this show, we said they're listening to twitter and they're getting disconnected from where even the voters in the democratic party are. >> it was note thabl able that end joe biden won, the one person not listening to that,

his campaign was not connected to that at all. and there is a reason why joe biden led in the south carolina primary, even after his collapse in iowa and new hampshire. he never dropped below bernie sanders in south carolina because black voters in south carolina were like, we need to beat donald trump and we're focused on who is the most likely person to win against this guy. and they looked at joe biden and thought that was him. and this is the question i'm asking, though, as we go forward, not to get in some stupid fight on that platform or any other platform, it is the case that it is unrepresentative, the conversation there, just as it is way more toxic and right wing on those platforms, it is not that it doesn't represent where the mainstream of the republican party is, it is way far to the left of where the democratic party is, if you go out and talk to, not just the party in general, general election voters, but primary voters are further to the right than the twitter conversation. they didn't have anybody to listen to in 2024, because biden was presumed to be the nominee.

then there isn't the infrastructure that got built up ahead of obama, and clinton, the infrastructure particularly that got headed up when clinton came in, a 12-year conversation about, how do we change the party, we lost three consecutive presidential elections. that doesn't exist anymore. dnc is weaker than it has ever been. those institutional framework doesn't really exist. and the main place where you hear democrats speaking en masse is unrepresentative sample of democrats on social media. so how do democrats figure out who to listen to and how to channel this conversation productively because everybody in the party has an opinion. >> "morning joe weekend" will be right back. >> "morning joe weekend" will be right back after careful review of medical guidance and research on pain relief, my recommendation is simple: every home should have salonpas. powerful yet non-addictive. targeted and long-lasting.

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always talked about democrats, working class voters. this year, that's expanded out. it is not just white working class voters, it is hispanic working class voters, it is black working class voters, not in massive numbers, but in enough numbers that the democratic party has a real concern. what is the answer? do you agree with senator murphy, this is how democrats reconnect with working class voters? >> i do agree. in my op-ed that came out yesterday, i made similar points in what is going on with nio liberalism and -- >> can you define neoliberalism for people that went to the schools i went to? >> yeah. >> it is the idea that markets should dictate how the people are provided assistance and services and opportunity, almost exclusively. the other side of that is also

the individual takes center stage in the conversation. self-agency and there is not a sense of collective -- >> so this is sort of, like, the -- the real attacks on the democratic party becoming neoliberals started with bill clinton, right? the whole robert -- whenever you talk about neoliberalism, people say this started with robert rubin and bill clinton. worried more about markets than people. >> i want to be clear about the contrast, public goods, public education, healthcare, clean air, clean water, roads, infrastructure, things that the collective have to invest in and need to invest in for the collective good, the neoliberal outlook says maybe we can leverage the private market, the private sectors innovation, ingenuity, for these purposes. the challenge is when the market and the system we have is driven by the profit motive. what happens when the goal is to maximize profit. over time, it undermines the collective sensibilities.

the market moves, right, with an invisible hand, the blind eye to the reality of the people, the people, for generations now have been persistently caught in the gap of economic opportunity that this design has created. and it is growing. right now, 60% of folks right now in this country living paycheck to paycheck. 60%. the top 1% own more wealth than the bottom 90%. first time in this country's history where the top % owns more wealth than the entire middle class. when you talk about why democrats are losing communities it because economic inequality is growing at an accelerated rate that is swallowing up the very essence of our democracy. that is the real threat, by the way, to democracy. >> let's be clear here, and we had our good friend curt anderson on for a week talking about his book, talking about evil geniuses, and the point i always made as a conservative,

as a small government, like, capitalist, is that capitalism works if capitalism has guardrails. but capitalism hasn't had guardrails for a very long time. so, you know, we republicans, when i was a republican, we used to always -- income redistribution. oh, you don't want to take from people that -- well, the great -- check it out, it is true, the greatest income redistribution in the history of mankind, womankind, has been the income redistribution from middle class americans starting in 1993, 1994, to the richest .0001%. this is a country of billionaires. and, yes, let me say very clearly, i am deeply concerned about the authoritarian language, about what i called

the fascist language of this campaign, of donald trump. i will tell you, though, that is here. and right here is also and we're seeing it before our very eyes, not only the rise of a.i., but the rise of billionaire s, untethered. so, we now have a capitalist system that has fewer and fewer guardrails and the richest of the rich are making hundreds of millions of dollars in the market. >> and we're the party that is supposed to help working people. >> and let me just say, people at home going, okay, you're speaking in generalities, the democrats had a chance when they controlled the ways and means committee to do things on carried interest, to do things on making sure that billionaires made -- had to pay as much in

taxes as their clerical workers in the back offices. and they refused to do it. and if the democrats aren't going to do it, then who the hell is going do it? because let me say, again, this is not the -- this is not the generality. i'm not going to call anybody out here, people can google it. but the chairman of the ways and means committee of the democratic party said, no, on carried interest. said no on making billionaires pay the same thing that clerical workers paid and that is also why we are here. >> and, joe, you -- >> the reason. >> it is the reason. >> and the more insidious part of this, an additional insidious dimension of this, you then dress that neo liberal logic with representational politics. you put in front of it a black face, a woman's body, and you think you're actually addressing the conditions of folks. and then identity politics becomes the issue, right?

so what we think about the democratic leadership caucus, this is why i find some of the critique of the loss of kamala harris' loss offensive and gaslighting. the part that we have lost the -- that we lost the white working class. democrats, you rightly noted, lost working class white folk for a long time. >> hispanic working class voters too. >> but we're saying at the margins. when we talk about the hard hat right of 1970, what was that in response to? we talk about reagan democrats what was that in response to? we talk about the forgotten americans, what was that in response to? when we talk about triangulation and democrats making the decision, coming out of the democratic leadership conference -- council, we need to distance ourself from the base, distance ourselves from unions, distance ourselves from black folk and then get the sister soldier moment with clinton where he specifically has to put jesse jackson in his place. and the like. and then you wonder, right, when

you begin to look at the data, the farther the black folk get from the civil rights movement, the more they're locked into the democratic party. >> i remember '92, when the dlc, al gore, bill clinton, running, jesse jackson, rainbow coalition, i was head of the ministers council, i literally lived through -- same problem. they blamed identity politics but were coming with this as you bring up now, not putting any kind of boundaries on what we're dealing with in terms of big business, which is the lieutenant governor is dealing with. and so deregulate everything, allow things, carried interest, all of that, by democrats, dlc types and then you blame the identity politics that you didn't work with -- >> but let's be clear, we need to talk about this. we need to talk about also as you and i have said for years, there are people on the far left specifically white progressives

from the far left that talk about identity politics. but don't want to talk about what you hear in -- from the pews, and that is i want to be safe, i want my children to be safe. there are no buts there. and if you put a but there, then -- then you lose everybody. let's be clear, that's -- there is nothing racist about saying, that a child should be able to walk to school safely. >> nothing racist about that. >> nothing racist about that. >> you're talking about people who use identity politics for people they don't identify with. you got to identify with people that want crime dealt with and at the same time want to see workers' rights put front forward. >> up next, "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner has charts on the success of vak vaccines and why that's stewing concerns about robert kennedy jr. being trump's pick for hhs secretary. obert kennedy jr. being trump's pick for hhs

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joining us now, "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner. steve, bobby kennedy hides behind being a skeptic of vaccines, therefore he feels he can say he's not antivaxx, but let's walk through some of the data behind all this. your first chart is about what vaccines actually do, which we need to remind people of these days. >> yeah, you covered a bit of

this. joe could have come over to the southeast wall for his comments, he would have had some charts to help along. but let's talk about polio first being perhaps the most famous case. polio really erupted in 1916 in brooklyn with a lot of cases, but then took off again when fdr, remember fdr got polio in 1921 and that spurred the first effort it really develop a vaccine. some of us may remember the march of dimes where everybody gave a dime to develop a polio vaccine. coincidentally, a huge spike in polio in 1940s. 1955, the polio vaccine was licensed. i want to inject a rsonal note here, i was one of the first cohorts to get injected and i remember how excited and relieved my parents were that their kids wouldn't have to worry about polio and it dropped to zero cases today and the red line here are the deaths of which there were a significant number. you mentioned covid and operation warp speed. amazing accomplishment, vaccine

developed in less than a year, and we have good data comparing people who got the vaccine to people who didn't get the vaccine and you can see the weekly death rate, this is the surge, this is the death rate for people who did not get the vaccine. this is the death rate way down here for the people who did get the vaccine. and for people who got the booster, and even lower death rate. >> so your next chart as we move across the wall is some other benefits that come from vaccines to our society. what are you looking at there? >> again, we went down a similar path with a lot of other childhood diseases, i grew up in a world where all these diseases, not smallpox, but most of these diseases were ones that we were susceptible to as kids. but look what happened. from an average of 530,000 cases of measles in the 20th century, we dropped down to 47. 99% drop. whooping cough, similarly.

mumps, 99%. rubella, also called german measles, 99%. we have essentially eradicated smallpox everywhere in the world, an amazing accomplishment. polio, zero. and then that hasn't had a significant impact on childhood mortality rates around the world. essentially this is the death rate of infants under the age of 1, dropped from 10% back in 1974 to about 2.8% i believe in 2024. and this is what scientists estimate the death rate would be without vaccines. 101 million, call it 100 million, infants around the world, have been saved over this period of time, because of vaccine rollouts around the world. >> all right, so let's move over to your final chart, steve, some other concerns if bobby kennedy does get this job at hhs, he has talked repeatedly about taking fluoride out of the water. another of the great accomplishments of the last century. what are you looking at there?

>> yeah, this is also in the antiscience ignorance, whatever category you want to put it in. fluoride disease control, the p froze 40% to 50%. the average number of decayed treeth teeth dropped like that, from 4 to 1.4, yes, 1.4. and it is not all fluoride, expert will tell you fluoride water played a significant role in that. let me turn to an issue that bobby kennedy is on the right side, in my opinion, at least partially because he has other ideas around this that are less sensible, perhaps. on the issue of food and what kids eat and obesity and so forth, we have had an upsurge in type 2 diabetes among children. used to be considered adult onset disease, happening more and more among children. it is closely linked to obesity.

and that, of course, we know what the nutritional issues are for kids. not surprisingly, kids of color have had a much higher rate of childhood diabetes and much faster growth in it. we have a huge nutrition and weight problem in our country among kids. and this is actually an issue in which i think some agreement -- i'm not sure taking food dye out of kids' cereals is part of this. certainly the cereals in mcdonald's all the rest of that is contributing heavily to this. >> well, i mean, we'll see what happens there, maybe when michelle obama and michael bloomberg talked about obesity and the like, they were hammered by conservatives saying don't tell us what to eat. the thing about obesity, though, especially childhood obesity, obesity in general, it is such a massive issue. it is such a massive healthcare

issue. it is also a massive fiscal issue. the costs of medicare and medicaid would plummet. would plummet if we seriously addressed obesity. so i'm with you. if there is a renewed focus on childhood obesity from whoever is the next hhs director, that's obviously important. and also, i don't know, this is radical, running, exercising, like, you know, everybody is so competitive and, oh, am i going to get into this school or that school, yeah, that's great, do that. you got a better chance to study , exercise. if schools make their students move more, i remember jfk's presidential fitness award when we were growing up, that encouraged kids to get out there

and exercise. and now this is where you respond, steve. steve, over to you. it is the first time he's done this. so he's going to be good the second or third time. >> you're right, joe. i do remember the kennedy challenge i think it was called to get us all out to exercise and the obesity problem is much more than a child problem and much more than a type diabetes problem. it is as you say, it costs massively to our medicare costs and it is something we need to do something about. as you also said, quite correctly, trump administration rejects anything that they can ize as being the nanny state. they don't believe government should get in the way. you talk about fluoride in the water, there is enormous push back particularly out west, they're taking fluoride out of the water in certain places,

antihealthcare, antiscience mentality that exists in certain parts of our country, among certain parts of our citizenry, it is scary and dangerous. vaccines, how can you possibly say, you know, that vaccines are a bad idea? we invented the smallpox vaccine, first one 1796, it wiped out smallpox over time with help from bill gates and others. but think about it, would you like to have smallpox back? >> no. steve ratner, thank you so much. up next, new reporting from lebanon amid the ongoing war in the middle east. "morning joe weekend" will be right back. e middle east. "morning joe weekend" will be right back look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti... he's melting! oh jeez... nooo... oh gaa... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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the international criminal court has issued arrest warrants

for israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and former defense minister yoav gallant. prosecutors are accusing them of war crimes and crimes against humanity, over their alleged actions in gaza since the october 7th terrorist attack. arrest warrants also have been filed for the leaders of hamas. not clear what practical implications they may have on israel as the country and the united states are not members of that court. still, netanyahu has called the move antisemitic. president biden also criticized the prosecutor over that investigation saying israel has the right to defend itself. joining us now, contributing editor for the financial times, kim gatas, her latest piece about the conflict in the middle east is entitled "letter from bay beirut, the many questions of war." good to see you. let's get into some of the questions from your time in lebanon. what did you see there and what questions did they raise for you? >> good to be on the show, fresh

from beirut. i live in beirut after having lived in the u.s. for some time, and i think it is important to remember the direct impact of decisions that are made in washington and tel aviv and israel on the real people, whether in gaza or in beirut where i live. the questions of war that it raises, first of all, i want to point out, the noises of the war i think my next piece is "the noise of war," the constant hum of the drone above your head, the whizzing missiles over your head at 3:00 in the morning when i'm walking my dog because she's barking like crazy, can't stand the booms, the loud noises of the missiles landing five minutes away from where i live in the southern suburbs of beirut. and it is very complicated for the lebanese who feel stuck between israel on the one hand, and iran and hezbollah, on the other hand. hezbollah has many opponents in lebanon. some of whom are probably thinking that israel is helping

get rid of that problem. but they are also facing the destruction of parts of their country, and heritage, devastation. more than 3,000 people killed. so these are complex questions. there are cease-fire negotiations under way at the moment. and, of course, we'll have to see how that unfolds under the trump administration. >> kim, you have an article in "the atlantic" recently where something you wrote just stayed with me. you were talking about how israel right now has become in a situation much like the u.s. after the invasion of iraq. could you talk about that a bit and what you see and compare and contrast it? >> sure, it is the idea you can remake the middle east, the grand plans to remake the middle east, which rarely end well. it didn't end well for the united states in iraq. it actually gave iran further power and ability to be a spoiler in the region. and it strikes me that israel today is trying to solve a

problem it created in 1982 when it first -- when it invaded lebanon, had invaded lebanon in a prior time as well, in '78. in 1982, it invaded lebanon to remove the palestinian grill uea fighters and it succeeded in that. it also created the problem of iran, that you were just discussing in a previous segment. 1979, islamic republic sees an opportunity and sends fighters to lebanon in june of 1982 and those fighters helped form hezbollah which stayed with us all these years. in 2006, israeli prime minister ehud olmert went to war with hezbollah because hezbollah had kidnapped two israeli soldiers on the border between lebanon and israel and ehud olmert said we're going to go to war and destroy hezbollah. that war ended in a stalemate and hezbollah has never been

stronger in those 18 years since then up until the recent events, which have definitely massively decimated its capabilities as a threat to israel, but there is deep concern in lebanon that there are still very powerful domestically. >> coming up, we take a look at the new fx series "say nothing," which dives into the murder and mystery surrounding the period of conflict in northern ireland known as the troubles. in northe known as the troubles. and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention.

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my mother and father were both proud members of the irish republican army. >> have i taught you girls how to make explosives? >> quite a happy childhood. >> we were catholic. it was a segregated society. everything went to the protestants. we thought joining the i.r.a. was -- >> you're not going to school. >> you're missing your chance to win this war. >> we wanted to be doing what the boys were doing. >> what have the boys done? >> farm raising. >> that was a look at the new fx limited series "say nothing," based on "the new york times" best-selling nonfiction book by author patrick radden keefe. it follows a group of young

members of the irish republican army focused on two sisters as they navigate their way through the troubles. and patrick joins us now. he serves as executive producer on the fx series and is also an award-winning staff writer at "the new yorker." a brilliant book, one of the best i've read in a very long time. talk to us about translating it to the screen. >> so, yeah, the book came out in 2019 and at the time i didn't even know that it could translate possibly, but i knew a producer, a guy named brad simpson, who had done a series "the people versus o.j. simpson," very great, very vexing issue of race and the pitch to me was, come on board, you'll work with us, and it will be a partnership and so i spent the last five years getting this thing made. and i'm really delighted for the results. >> it is so fascinating. just seeing that clip, it reminds me of a dear friend who was raised in the troubles, in northern ireland.

irish catholic. and she said that her -- it was noble. her brothers, she said, her brothers were all members of the i.r.a. they never told their 4'11" mother because they feared her more than they feared the i.r.a. >> say nothing. >> say nothing. but it was -- it was a way of life. it was a battle for what they believed was, you know, their very soul. >> i think part of what we're trying to do in the series is show what were the circumstances like for you in you were a young person in your teens and early 20s, living in a system in which you think there is a lot of oppression, there is injustice, very deeply divided society. and suddenly it flips over into violence, what do you do, and to take the long view of that. so it kind of starts as a thriller and ends as a tragedy. we're trying to reckon with the costs of that kind of radical politics. >> yeah. and just give us a little bit of a sort of sense of what this -- this means in history and sort of the lessons from this. >> well, i think that the you

have this kind of interesting situation in northern ireland, six six counties still part of the uk, still are today, and there was a lot of discrimination and oppression of catholics living there during the 1950s, 1960s. it all boiled over in the late '60s, early '70s. there is a huge amount of violence. some images would be familiar to us in america today. peaceful protests, you have tear gas, you have militarized police on the streets, and a lot of people asking themselves, what is the best way to kind of get from this place we are today to a better future for this country. sometimes making good decisions, sometimes making bad ones, what we wanted to do is tell a very dramatic story that looked at the whole kind of spectrum of choices that people made under that kind of pressure. >> that's it for us good morning. it