that will do it for me, thanks for watching, i will be back next saturday and sunday at 6:00 p.m. eastern. follow us on x, instagram, tiktok, threads, and now bluesky using the handle at weekend capehart. and watch clips of the show on youtube. you can also listen to every episode as a podcast for free. just scan the qr code on your screen to follow. don't go anywhere, ayman is next. good evening tonight on ayman.

who is funding the president- elect's transition? sparking serious ethics concerns ahead of his second term. and all of the presidents men, donald trump returns to project 2025 to fill key roles in his administration. plus, how u.s. politicians are responding to icc arrest warrants for israel's prime minister and the former defense minister, as well as a hamas leader. i am ayman mohyeldin, let's do it. as the vote count from election night continues to be tabulated, donald trump has now slipped below 50% of the vote. that's right, the latest choses victory was one of the smallest margins since the 19th century. one thing it was not, a landslide point with inflation and economic security considered key reasons behind

why the incumbent party lost and with many working-class americans turning towards republicans and donald trump, how is he looking to meet the needs of the american working class? by handing his administration over to the highest bidder, of course. the trump transition team is now running on secret donations. nbc news has been reporting on how trump's team has declined to sign an ethics agreement that would force him to disclose who was finding this transition, in exchange for federal matching funds. now, the new york times explains that by refusing to sign, trump's team is raising untraceable sums of money from unknown sources, domestic and foreign. this of course raises the obvious possibility of a pay to play and blatant corruption, which while extremely alarming, should come as no surprise for this incoming administration. look, we arty know that five days before trump's first in operation in 2017, a secret $10 million withdrawal was requested from the state run

national bank of egypt. money that u.s. intelligence believed may have ended up in the hands of donald trump. this investigation was shut down by trump's that attorney general bill barr, and the president-elect went on to have a very chummy relationship with the egyptian president, even calling him his favorite dictator. that was far from the only sign of corruption during trump's tenure in the white house. the watchdog group, crew, found more than 3400 conflicts of interest during trump's first term. from holding events at his properties and golf courses and lining his pockets to foreign officials patronizing trombone businesses, possibly in exchange for political favors. and during his most recent presidential campaign, we learned that trump invited all ceos to mar-a-lago promised to hand over his energy policy to them if they could steer $1 billion to his campaign. this is on top of the more than $100 million apiece he received from three billionaire mega- donors, timothy mellon, and elon musk, who appears to be co-

running, if you will, trump's administration and transition. make no mistake about it, this is not an administration that is being built to address the needs of the working-class voters who elected it. it appears to be smash and grab operation and then auctioning off of the presidency for profit. the questions ahead, of course, how much are they going to get away with and who is going to stop it? joining me now to discuss this and more, tara, cofounder and ceo of the seneca project, she is also former gop communications director, and ameshia cross, democratic strategist and a former obama campaign adviser. ladies, it is great to have both of you with us. tara, surprise surprise, no one can say they do not expect this, it hasn't even been a month, i guess, since the election, and here we are already seeing some shady misprint >> yeah, it is make america corrupt again. i mean, donald trump has been doing this for his entire political career. all the way back to when we

were talking about him and his dealings with russia. but throughout his entire presidency, there was a lot of shady business deals going on. cabinet members included. his son-in-law, jared kushner, who got billions of dollars from the saudis as a result of his coziness to the president and his work inside the white house. i mean, it is outrageous. and we have been distracted with so many other things, outrageous and unethical things that donald trump has done from the sexual impropriety and misconduct to his cabinet members with these problems that we have kind of forgotten about this corruption side of things. the unethical side. just last weekend, donald trump was sitting ringside at the ufc fight with the head of the saudi public investment fund. so, i mean, it's pretty obvious. elon musk isn't hanging around because he wants to just be cool and be part of the presidential transition team. elon musk has a lot invested in

this here, literally and figuratively. so, anytime that you see this, the people that donald trump is surrounding himself with, i ask the american people, how do you think this is going to benefit you in the middle class, how do you think any of these relationships are actually going to benefit you and fix the affordability issue that so many people claim that that is the reason why they voted for donald trump? they forgot about everything else, they rationalized everything else, all the other problems, but it is because donald trump is going to fix the economy for us. is he, is it really going to be for them or is it going to be for him and his rich friends question mark >> yeah, ameshia, basically the sign on the white house is going to read open for business or for sale, one way or the other. after all the talk after the election about working-class vote shifting republican, isn't this going to create a wide opening for democrats, shouldn't it create a wide opening for democrats to combat trump and the republicans? clearly these donors are not here to fight for working men

and women in america. >> no, absolutely. the working-class voter, that vote was up for grabs, and unfortunately, the democrats lost on the. with that said, nothing about donald trump up to and including the present shows that he ever really cared about working-class voters or those who are not in the top five or 1%. what we see now and can acknowledge very full throat of the is this is a guy who does not want to release specific donor names or where this money came from, because with those monies comes ties to things that he doesn't want the american public to know about. with that money comes ties to and the task at promised to do the bidding of those individuals and those foreign entities as well. i think there is a reason why ivanka trump, as well as jared kushner, are no longer a part of anything having to do with the trump campaign or the incoming trump administration. they got their money and they ran with it. donald trump is a businessman. i failed one, yes, multiple times bankrupt, but a businessman. at the end of the day, the man is appointing people in

positions who are also willing to turn that time and sell us out to the highest bidder. that is what donald trump is known for, it is not building a working class, it is not supportive union workers. by and large, even in his own business, he was known for firing people instead of extending opportunities for them to work overtime. this is a guy who has never supported union workers, this is a guy who does not have a record of supporting the working-class, and regardless of how much he turned himself into a shape shifter in terms of messaging, this is not a guy who will support the working- class. what we are going to see is him sell america, its secrets, and its opportunity off to whoever sent them the most money to do so. that is not your everyday american voter. >> tara, it is not just corruption, it seems, because as the times as noted, the transition team, since they failed to sign a separate agreement with the justice department, the fbi is unable to conduct background checks and needed to grant these incoming appointees security clearance, and as a result, the transition is reportedly using private firms to vet candidates, leaving open the possibility that federal law

enforcement may never properly review trump appointees. i mean, if you have been wondering about the questionable vetting of some of these cabinet pics, this might be the reason why. >> 100%. and this is, i think, something -- i'm glad it is being reported on now, because this is something that, again, is so highly unusual. during the transition, there is a lot that goes on during transitions that people don't see, because it is supposed to be a smooth transition. they start this like six months before the inauguration, so that the american people really don't feel any difference in handing power from one person to the other. we saw what was exposed, the under belly that happens when you try to thwart the power like what happened in 2020. this time, there is nothing about the election being fraudulent, but what they are doing this time around, and this is why it is so much more nefarious than before, because

these guys actually know what they are doing now and they have had four years to figure it out. by not letting the fbi do these background checks, you don't have a public record exposing all of the problems. the last time we had problems with the sf 86 form, i think it is, where you have to fill out your financial disclosures and things, and jared kushner had to edit it like 100 times or something, that was the biggest scandal before. this time, they are not signing over anything. the gsa can't transfer things over, they can't use money with the funding to help with the offices and, you know, the computers and the basic logistics of handing things over to a new administration. they can't do any of that. and on top of it, you have all of these cabinet members who would normally be vetted by the fbi that are not being vetted now, because donald trump doesn't want us exposed. look at how many people have problems, whether it is with their own personal behavior or with their finances or questionable, you know, lawsuits and who they are doing

business with. if the fbi does this, then that is exposed, there is public record of that, then senators have access to it. i mean, how many people do we know of with this mass deportation, how many of the private prison magnates are lining donald trump's pockets, so they are ready to go when it is time to set up the camps, when they round people up? i mean, there are so many examples of donald trump turning this into his own personal feet with all these people around him that it should be alarming to the american people, but you know, sunlight is the best disinfectant, and that's why they don't want us to have any of it. >> we do have one more thing to add to the list, ameshia, about the graft, and that is coming soon from a republican publishing house, cofounded by none other than donald trump jr., donald trump's upcoming book: save america, is on sale for a mere $99. $499 for signed copies, apparently are already sold out. this according to a trump social media post, captures the magic we had and will soon have

again. [ laughter ] >> i mean, from gold shoes to fake playing cards to -- >> trump water. >> the trouble watches, it just keeps coming. this is a guy was known as a marketer in chief, this is a guy who is known for trying to flip democracy in his own image, this is a guy who believes that the structure of our democracy is fundamentally unhinged and he does not support any of the systems that will come of it and wants to eradicate it as we know it, in addition to shaping our constitution in a very different format than it was originally intended. so, i'm not necessarily surprised that this book is coming out or that his son has pushed it. the imagery in and of itself, donald trump unfortunately, there were multiple assassination attempts, he took that one in pennsylvania to have a shot seen around the world when it comes to the fist pump, he knows what he was doing when he was doing it, and at this point, i think he is

going to try to paint all of that for years to come. >> i wonder if he is actually paying any royalties to the photographer who took that picture with the sale of those books, it will be interesting to see. >> i doubt it. but yeah, we will see. it is definitely not a picture that he can pretend he doesn't know was taken by somebody else, an actual professional photographer. what's that? >> and said like that matters to donald trump. >> absolutely, the rules don't apply. stick around, we have got a lot more to discuss. up next, trump's wholehearted embrace of project 2025 now that he has won the election is out in the open. [ music ]

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>> those were just some of the many times donald trump tried to distance himself from the heritage projects far right playbook project 2025. the president-elect was worried about being associated with such extreme and unpopular policies, but that is of course before he won the presidential election. now, all cards are on the table. trump has topped russell vought, coauthor of project 2025, who pushed for trump to take control of government agencies to lead the office of management and budget. his pick for border czar, tom, who contributed to project 2025, and maybe best known as the father of the family separation policy. it doesn't stop there, trump's twice for chairman of the federal communications commission or the fcc is brandon carr, he wrote a chapter in project 2025's planning document on deregulating broadcasters and cracking down on media outlets. then of course there is john ratcliff, trump's picked to lead the cia, he served as dni during trump's first term, and can you guess what? he also contributed to project

2025. tara and ameshia are back with me. ameshia, this was, again, all too obvious for anyone who is following or watching the campaign. you think trump had convinced anyone, anyone across the political spectrum that he was genuine about not infusing his administration with project 2025? >> absolutely not. i think that most people knew, definitely those who cared about project 2025, but most people knew that donald trump was lying about his allegiance to and his acknowledgment of who was involved and how he aligned with some of the precepts of project 2025. people will say that they voted for the economy or they voted inherently about the price of eggs and things like that, but what we do know is on the campaign trail, donald trump was echoing sentiments of project 2025 live in real time without any of the others standing next to him. what we also know is you chose a vice presidential candidate who is now vice president- elect, jd vance, who is not

only someone who is very friendly towards the heritage foundation, but somebody was also endorsed heavily by the project 2025 authors. it was never a secret that project 2025 through and through had donald trump's name and brand on it, but moreover, i think at this point, watching who he decides to appoint, watching who he decides to have in his war chest, watching who you decides to have in his trust, all of these people are individuals who project 2025 uplifted. all our people who wrote parts of it, all are people who have endorsed it, all are people who have heavy and long-standing relationships with the heritage foundation, which helped to publish it. >> tara, trump and republicans are arguing that because he won the popular vote and the electoral college, he has a mandate to do whatever he wants. never mind that as we laid out, is popular vote was one of the smallest, a very slim margin, but recent polls just before the election or show the majority of voters were clearly against project 2025. >> yes. and i think, you know, there

people aware of what project 2025 was, who those people were, and their relationship to donald trump, and what it would mean if he got elected. we did that at the seneca project, we put out content to explain that, and when people saw it, the reaction was unbelievable. they were like, wait a minute, what? because sure, donald trump does a lot of things, you see the shiny object over here, meanwhile project 2025 was something they had been working on for four years. this started working on this back after he lost the first time. so, they had a lot of time to put this together, and i think it is important for organizations like ours, because we are going to continue to do this, we have to continue to educate the american people and shine a light on what they are doing and what this means, because what is at stake now, i mean, it is a little late because they voted for donald trump to try to stop it, per se, but we need to make sure we don't make

it easy for them to implement, especially when it comes to women. it's interesting, one of the service, what it showed about project 2025 as a media and surrogates from the democrats were speaking out about this all in one voice, this was an example of where you have unified messaging. it had an impact on public perception, but the one area of project 2025 that people started to think, well, maybe he is not going to do it, was when it came to women's reproductive health. that was when you said i'm not going to do a national abortion bans. for some reason, that resonated. no, i'm not going to do that. meanwhile, we know what is in there and the people who he has put in place, they want a national abortion bans, they want to make it more difficult for women's reproductive health, and it is putting women's lives at risk, whether it is the comstock act, whether it is when you can't have emergency care if you need abortion care to save your life, they're trying to push that and make it illegal. they are turning the department of health and human services into the department of life. there are all kinds of very concerning things in there. try to strip away the eeoc of

their authority for equal opportunity and enforcement in the workplace, that is enforcing discrimination, making sure that doesn't happen, that impacts women and minorities. there are some things in project 2025 that are in the 900 page document that i don't think the american people are fully aware of, but they are about to be, because the american people are about to ask around and find out, because all of these people who have been put in place by donald trump are there to dismantle, not reform. and we have to make it as difficult as possible as we move forward, and that is definitely what we are going to do at the seneca project. >> ameshia, it is kind of comical, because there is this 180 degree pivot from people at fox and others on project 2025. in july, she said no president ever has or ever will outsources policy and personal choices to a think tank, especially one who is causing political problems. that of course was back when project 2025 was seen as a

political liability for republicans. let me play for you what she is saying about it now. >> of the left is already going crazy because of vaughn's connection with project 2025, because project 2025, to be very clear here, a lot of their ideas were just classic maga ideas. >> your thoughts on that 180? again, another example of deny, deny, deny, but then once they won, full embrace. >> well, yeah, it is called pre- and post election. in the pre-election, we saw that there were people, based on some of the reporting out of this network and others that it dug really deep into project 2025 and some of the things tara mentioned just a moment ago and it scared the american voter, so people who will acknowledge what was in it, maybe they read it, maybe they didn't, but they are things on networks or they dug into some of those precepts, were very vigilant against it. now that donald trump has taken office or that he is about to assume office, there is a

window for fox to say, hey, this isn't that bad. at the end of the day, this is a maga. and they are right, this is maga. a lot of the people who stand behind maga doctrines are the same people who wrote this thing. be mindful, parts of [ inaudible ] are already being implemented in republican state legislatures across the country. this is a and a federalized tone. this is not it in its entirety. we have seen it take shape and majority republican state legislatures already. this is something the heritage foundation has been working on for quite some time and something they have ridden legislation for and have tested it out in places across the country. in donald trump, they found somebody who could speak to it in a national level and that is where we could see it take shape. there are very scary things in there, up to and including the erosion of all things women's rights, but when you see donald trump, a president-elect who is willing to appoint people who are not only being investigated for sexual abuse and sexual assault, who are absolutely fine standing by as women are being

violently attacked. when you see folks, and we are talking about hegseth, talking about black people having smaller brains and smaller capacity and not needing to be in leadership positions, you have people who are antithetical to civil rights and women's rights, those are the people who he is appointing to be in some of the most major positions the united states has to offer, that is what we look forward to from project 2025, that is what america can look forward to in the people who he is appointing. that's a very important point on that, ameshia cross, tara, thank you both for joining us this evening as always. next up, an ob/gyn who is demanding immediate changes to the abortion laws in texas. >> [ music ] >> [ music ] people you can knock down. it's about how many people you can lift up. at ram, our calling is to build game-changing trucks. so when you find your calling... nothing can stop you from answering it.

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medical license. these are the penalties awaiting doctors providing abortions in texas if they provide care that violates the state's strict heartbeat abortion bans. more than 100 texas ob/gyn's recently published a letter condemning the ban and called for immediate reforms to the states abortion laws. they write, "antiabortion groups and others are saying blame does not fall on texas law, that is simply not true. as ob/gyn in texas, we know firsthand how much these laws restrict our ability to provide our patients with quality, evidence-based care." now, this comes after propublica released reports on joe sally monica and novaya crane, two women who died after their miscarriages went untreated as a result of that band. joining me now to discuss this, one of the ob/gyn's who signed that powerful letter, dr. austin tendered. dr. dennard, thank you so much

for joining us, you have experienced the consequences of texas is abortion laws firsthand, both professionally and personally. when you were pregnant and learned that the fetus you were carrying had a fatal fetal anomaly, and had to leave texas to get that abortion. can you tell us about your experience and what led you to it? >> sure. absolutely, thank you so much for having me this evening. you know, this all became so personal for me when i myself had to flee my home state of texas, a place where i am now a sixth generation texan to get the care that i needed. i was 11 weeks pregnant, just so excited to be adding a third baby to our family, and i looked up at the ultrasound screen at the routine visit and saw that the baby inside my womb had no brain and do not have in school. and i knew at that moment not only is this not going to be a brother or sister for my children, but this is a

pregnancy that i am going to need to end to save my life, and now because of the abortion laws in my state, i'm going to have to flee my state to get the care. so, it was heartbreaking and it was a watershed moment for me, both as a mother and as a texas woman, but also as a physician, as an ob/gyn myself. so, it was the beginning of even more advocacy work that i am now a part of your in dallas. >> i'm so sorry that you and your family had to go through that, i thank you so much for sharing this deeply personal story and tragedy that you went through. and you know, you're putting the spotlight on it, i know there are many women out there probably going through similar experiences and don't have the ability to talk about it or get the care that they deserve. there was a recent study that found as a result of the abortion ban, many texas ob/gyn's, 44%, i believe, reported they would consider or have already changed how or where they practice. have you

given any thought as well, what does this mean for the quality of care patients are receiving now in texas? >> absolutely, i will never forget the moment that my husband and i were sitting in a coffee shop right after i had had my out-of-state abortion, we work heartbroken, we were tearful, we were just kind of dumbfounded, and we had a very frank conversation, the two of us, about what else is it going to take for us to need to leave our state and practice medicine elsewhere if we can provide standard medical care, the type of medical care that we learned in medical school and residency, what else is going to have to happen in our state? and we started listening to different states that we would consider moving through. i'm a proud texan, i love my state, and i really never want to leave, but it was a conversation that we had. and what we are seeing now as a result of these horrific abortion bans, there are

physicians that are leaving the state, there are physicians that are changing their specialty, there are for sure a reduction in the number of applicants for ob/gyn as a specialty in our state. it is really changing the future of our specialty and the future of medicine in our state, so, there are so many downstream effects and repercussions of these horrific laws that we really have to do something to change it. >> i want to ask you about the efforts and the rejection from the texas supreme court here, because i understand texas lawmakers have introduced bills in an effort, both in the house and the senate, to create new health exceptions to the van, which would broaden doctors ability to intervene and provide life-saving abortion care. you have actually taken action on this issue, i believe, he participated in a lawsuit against the state, asking for clarification on the exceptions, the supreme court i understand has refused this.

can you walk us through that? i mean, what do you make of this new effort and what are the specific exceptions have been refused by the texas supreme court? >> you know, this is the problem with the laws currently, how they are stated in texas are so vague and so confusing, on top of the fact that physicians can lose their license, they can serve jail time, they can be fined thousands and thousands of dollars, the aiding and abetting, these vigilante laws have induced so much fear in the medical community that that has paralyzed our ability to take care of patients, and you know, we want to do the right thing, we want to take good care of our patients, but our backs are against the wall with fear that we are not going to be able to continue practicing medicine or even be with our families if we are providing abortion care, and outline that is drawn between what is life- threatening and what is not life-threatening is extremely

confusing and it really paralyzes the type of care that hospitals can provide for patients, which is why you are seeing these horrific outcomes over and over and over again. it is not a surprise, honestly. but it is something we have been seeing coming down the pipeline, because we just can't provide the right type of care for patients anymore in our state. >> thank you so much again for sharing such a personal story and for your advocacy and all of this, and certainly look forward to continuing the conversation with you in the weeks and months ahead. >> thank you so much for having me, it is such an important topic for us to continue talking about. >> thank you so much, dr. pete next up, what what the icc arrest warrant for prime minister benjamin netanyahu means for both israel and the u.s. and next hour, i will speak to the ceo to protect journalists jodi ginsberg as donald trump has republicans killing the bill that would defend freedom in this country. stick around for that. >> [ music ] >> [ music ]

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for the first time in history, the international criminal court issued landmark address warrants for benjamin netanyahu and former minister of defense, yoav gallant, along with now deceased olmos a military leader mohammed. the world's highest criminal court made up of all 27 members of the european union and more is now saying that if netanyahu or gallant set foot on the territory of a state party, that state party has an obligation to arrest them and transfer them. it is worth noting that the united states, despite playing a critical role in establishing and operating the united

nations war crimes commission, the world war ii tribe at nuremberg and tokyo, is not a signatory to the icc. in fact, neither is israel. but the jurisdiction of the icc actually extends beyond member states, and its word carries tremendous weight. the language in this rolling is devastating. the states that netanyahu and gallant have committed crimes against humanity of murder and persecution and other inhumane acts, as well as the war crime of directing an attack against the civilian population. no one who has closely followed this war over the past 14 months would be surprised by these charges. especially the charge that israel is using starvation as a weapon of war. in fact, countless human rights organizations and aid group have been sounding the alarm from the beginning of this war. but there is more obvious proof

that according to the icc, that israel knowingly deprived the population of food, medicine, fuel, and electricity. they said they would bid on october 29th, 2023, then israel defense minister gallant announced to the world a complete siege of the gaza strip that would allow no food, water, electricity, or fuel into the 2.3 million residents of the strip. israel's leaders essentially announced last october that they would do what the international criminal court just filed arrest warrants for them doing. as expected, prime minister netanyahu denounced the court's announcement and claimed that it is anti-semitic. former human rights watch executive kenneth ross responded by saying, "netanyahu cheapens the concept of anti- semitism to try to save himself. at a point when jewish people around the world need to rally

support against anti-semitism, netanyahu throws them under the bus by equating anti-semitism with criticism of his own war crimes." the israeli newspaper wrote that netanyahu brought the icc ruling on himself, and now he is whining about anti-semitism. but how the international community has reacted is also critical in all of this. the european union's foreign policy chief joseph peralta said that all eu member states should respect the court's decision and implement it. and nations including france, ireland, italy, spain, canada, and south africa all said that they would meet their commitments under international law. but how did the united states, the country at the center of the rules-based international order that has helped build this system and its image, how did they react? the country whose current president, after four years of trump turning away from the international order, pledged to put human rights at the center

of his foreign-policy, how did that country, the united states, react? by slamming the court and calling its rulings outrageous. president biden added, "we will always stand with israel against threats to its security." threats to its security? netanyahu and gallant are being charged for using starvation as a weapon of war, not with defending itself. they are being charged for doing what gallant publicly announced to the world that israel would do. biden knows all about the israeli government restricting million peer off of gaza's coast because of it, a peer that collapsed faster than american credibility on internationalist age. the charges also include crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts. take a look at the average number of children killed per year during these recent global conflicts, from russia's devastation of ukraine and israel's war in gaza.

how did joe biden and secretary of state antony blinken react when icc charged vladimir putin with war crimes? by welcoming those charges and urging the international community to actually comply with them. make no mistake about it, the hypocrisy and depravity here is bipartisan. last march, lindsey graham called icc arrest warrant for putin a giant step in the right direction for the international community. but guess what, on thursday, that very same senator, lindsey graham, called icc a rogue and politically motivated organization, and he followed it up with this threat on friday. >> so, to any ally, canada, britain, germany, france, if you try to help the icc, we are going to sanction you. >> the hypocrisy even turned to hostility for republican senator tom cotton after personally attacking the icc's chief prosecutor, senator cotten said woe to him and

anyone who tries to enforce these outlaw awards. let me give them all a friendly reminder, the american law on the icc is known as the invasion act for a reason, think about it." yes, i want you to think about that. a prominent republican senator and ally of donald trump threatening military action against the international criminal court in order to defend american funded alleged war crimes. in 2020, joe biden campaigned on restoring america's standing in the world and respecting international norms, and his administration promised to champion human rights. the actions of this past week alone have put an exclamation point on his failure to do so, exposing american hypocrisy and its weakened influence in this world. now, biden will hand the keys to the white house to donald trump, a man who makes no promises about human rights or international norms, only the threat of more fire and fury. we will be right back after a

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before the break, i discussed both democrats and republicans rejecting the international criminal courts arrest warrants for benjamin netanyahu and the former defense minister, yoav gallant, but this was not the only example of them this week, on wednesday, the un security council voted overwhelmingly to

approve a cease-fire resolution in gaza after 14 nations voted in favor of it, including america's allies britain and france, it was left to u.s. a deputy ambassador to the you and robert wood, who raised his hand to veto it. it was the fourth time the biden administration used its veto power at the u.n. to reject a cease-fire after claiming that it was working tirelessly towards one. joining me now to discuss this and more, craig, an international human rights lawyer and former senior u.n. official. craig, it is great to have you back on the show. our viewers may remember that you of course resigned your post from the uni commission for human rights back in october 2023. you said at the time, the u.n. and human rights community were failing in their duty to prevent what was happening in gaza. do you see these icc warrants for netanyahu and gallant as a positive step or too little, too late? >> well, there certainly late, but i think it is absolutely historic that finally these arrest warrants have been

issued, and coming on the heels by the way of israel being on trial for genocide across the way at the international court of justice, the findings and official reports of a number of international mechanisms finding that indeed, israel has engaged in genocide war crimes, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing, gross violations of human rights, the practice of apartheid, for example. so, it was very frustrating to have to watch the slow start on the part about these mechanisms. icc, for example, the file on palestine goes back almost a decade. those are unprecedented delays, and indeed, we saw another unprecedented delay in the final issuing of the words themselves after they were requested. the icc has never taken six months to issue requested warrants, but we know now that that was because the court was under extraordinary pressure. not just the public threats and obstruction coming from washington, but also from israeli spy agencies threatening and obstructing in private. and of course, all of

the sort of usual trolls attacking the court for daring to take on the issue of israel's violations. but they held on, they did the right thing, as has the international court of justice, but we have only just begun in the struggle for justice, and we are talking of course about a country, israel, that has enjoyed 77 years of impunity guaranteed by the west and in particular, by the government of the united states. that impunity is beginning to show very important crack. >> let me ask you about that impunity for a moment, because a lot of it is because of the united states. i mentioned both of the biden administration and republicans support of the ruling, they supported the icc when she was warranted for vladimir putin, but now for someone to literally go to war with them over the warrant for netanyahu and gallant, what you make of this bipartisan american response and what does it say about america's role in the international community? >> well, i think the curtain has been pulled back as of the hypocrisy that we see on

display now. the u.s. has always advanced rhetoric about the rule of law and international justice. if we are honest, it has never been a particularly positive player in those initiatives. as you said earlier, the u.s. is not even a party to the rome statute of the international criminal court. there is a gratification record on human rights instruments, 193 countries in the world, only one has not ratified the main international treaty that protects the human rights of children, and that countries united states. it is alone in that way, and these days, it is much more isolated on a whole range of these sorts of issues, and the current situation, with regard to their obstruction, i must say, of the lawful actions of the icc, of the international court of justice, has only served to isolate them further. not to mention the four vetoes of the cease-fires that could have saved thousands and thousands of lives. so, what we are seeing is quite remarkable. we are seeing a u.s. government

that is sacrificing its own interests, its own standing in the world, its own diplomatic clout, its own reputation on behalf of an impressive foreign regime. not only are they promising to harbor international fugitives, to protect them from justice, but they are also attacking the court itself. that is deeply shameful, that is mafia behavior, that is not the behavior of a global power. and remember, these are the same u.s. politicians that are daily expressing outrage at russia's invasion of the european country, ukraine. they now are themselves threatening to invade european country, in this case the netherlands, which is the seat of the icc, and the same ones that welcomed the icc's role in issuing warrants for president putin are now condemning the court as illegitimate. so, this is truly remarkable. it is not cost free. it will certainly have political and diplomatic costs for the united states, but i have written as well that there are actually provisions of international law that could result in individuals being held accountable legally for interference with the work of

the court, and i think some attention needs to be played to that as well by these politicians who view this as some kind of a game. >> we are going to certainly keep the spotlight on that and certainly have you back to answer more specific weston's as these warrants, if they are ever executed, and ultimately, if this ever does lead to any kind of trial, it will certainly be one that the whole world will be watching, as you said, and others have noted, there is no other word for the way americans have responded other than hypocrisy with these arrest warrants. craig, thank you so much for your time and your expertise, greatly appreciated. >> thank you, ayman. >> a new hour of ayman starts after a quick break, don't go anywhere. >> [ music ] re. >> [ music ]

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