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tv   Alex Wagner Tonight  MSNBC  November 27, 2024 6:00pm-7:01pm PST

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cabinet, what that does just generally to people, how that flows down to folks that may be experiencing this and thinking about whether they're going to come forward were going to talk to someone about it. >> that's the concern, right, that people who have had these types of horrific experiences will say, what happened to me i guess doesn't matter. nobody is going to care about it. nobody's going to take my claims seriously and they're not going to be properly investigated. and you're going to have prosecutors out there that just decide not to charge because now you're going to possibly infect the jury system, where you have people who are going to be making a decision on these cases and thinking, like i don't believe this person.
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>> michigan attorney general, dana nessel, thank you very much, that is all this week, have a great thanksgiving. >> good evening, happy thanksgiving to you. as we begin, donald trump is nearly finished picking the people he wants in his cabinet with just two cabinet level position still unfilled. the trump transition has announced a new way of administration picks. today, he announced he will use keith kellogg to serve as the special envoy for ukraine and russia, dr. kellogg who served for mike pence in the first administration has advocated
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for a cease-fire and negotiated a settlement to the war. and also suggested conditioning further u.s. military for ukraine, and peace talks with the russians. trump has filled nearly 60 spots in his administration, all at breakneck speed, it's not just the speed and the qualifications and the various nominees that are turning heads, this week, multiple news outlets reported that the trump transition is investigating boris epshteyn, they are trying to personally profit off of his presidency. according to the washington post, asked potential ministration nominees to give him monthly consulting fees in exchange for advocating to them for trump. this sort of behavior isn't new, during the first administration, his then lawyer and fixer, michael cohen was also trying to cash in on his a
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proximity to trump.>> some companies had businesses pending with the new administration, a senior official at novartis telling nbc news they reached out shortly after the election, promising access to the administration, the company said it paid cohen nearly $1.2 million. >> the administration recommended that trump fire boris epshteyn, saying he tried to shake down the eventual treasury secretary pick for $30,000 a month to promote his cabinet seek around mar-a-lago. in an interview with conservative news outlets, trump said it is a shame that it happens, but no one working for me in any capacity should be looking to make money. personally profiting off of his presidency unacceptable, unless you are of course donald trump himself, with branded watches
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and bibles and sneakers and now even guitars. when asked about the controversy this week on fox, eric issued what could only be perceived as a light warning.>> i have never known him to be anything but a good human being, so that said, i will tell you my father has been incredibly clear, you do not do that under any circumstance and believe me, there will be repercussions if somebody would. i have never seen that side of him, i have known him for a very long time and i certainly hope the reporting is false and i can also tell you if it is true, the person would no longer be around. >> as far as we know, trump has not fired boris epshteyn but the press signals that at least some members of his circle are disturbed that his dealmaking will run him out. this is another reminder of the importance of guardrails. the
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traditional vetting process is that the trump transition has so far sought to avoid. joining me now, tim miller and managing editor, sam stein, good evening, good to see you both. sam, two weeks ago, the new york times was writing a profile about boris epshteyn and how he had acquired so much power and proximity, life comes at you fast, what you make of this?>> thank you for having us, i guess there's no such limit to too much bulwark, that is good to know. this seems to be par for the course, obviously in another administration this would be terribly corrupt but in this case, selling access is something that we have seen before as you alluded to with the michael cohen news. it is important to know boris epshteyn and how he got here, one of the early trump a.i.d.s. , very few people were willing
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to go on tv and bowed for trump, boris is one of them, he had taken on this fixer role, an advocate for trump publicity but he never made it into the white house because boris also has problems dealing with other people, let's put it that way. he has annoyed other people in the trump orbit, people look at him suspiciously. but he did come back in 2020 two help with the recount and stealing campaigns. that is why boris is currently with trump, that he is stuck with him and trump looks at him as a dutiful soldier, i think it is very telling that even though the study was commissioned, even though it was leaked to a very friendly trump news outlet, boris continues, as far as we know, to be employed by the trump team . >> tell me what that means, the fact that there was this investigation and the fact that it was leaked and he continues
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to work there, what does that tell you? >> while it might be thanksgiving week, we are really living in groundhog day and we are going to relive the same thing for four years. it is going to be open business for these guys giving the trump administration, as far as access peddling, paying people off, to get to the administration. donald trump has a very few random issues that he cares about, everything else he is pliable on based on the last person that got in his ear. we saw a lot during the first administration, obviously his family, jared kushner the chief among them is a far as the money they received. but is going to continue and the people stay around, boris isn't going anywhere, in the trump world, they claim they hit the media that they talk to
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the media all the time to try to leak against their internal rivals and also, a lot of these guys are going to be open for business and they are going to do so in ways, at the most generous you can say, color outside the lines or enter into gray areas.>> i hear the two of you on par for the course on groundhog day but asking the future treasury secretary pick for 30,000 per month, it is pretty brazen, i don't just want to skip over that. do you have any reporting, any sense, is donald trump angered by the fact that not only was he potentially trying to make money off of the access, that he was doing it so brazenly? >> it is brazen, it is also pretty idiotic if you think about it, how he would suspect it would get back to trump is
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beyond me, and it did. in terms of reporting, our colleague reports that people internally, within the orbit have long found boris to be abrasive and don't want him around frankly, he got into a fight with elon musk already, elon thinks he's an idiot, this is not my words. this is what was told to us. and trump is fine if you pay trump. there's a reason that elon has this position, he spent hundreds of millions of dollars to help trump get elected, but he is not fine when you are taking a slice of the cash, and this is how the reporter put it as well, that is why trump is upset right now. boris is trying to get his and trump thinks it is totally irresponsible and outside the lines if you profit off of his name. that is where boris really stepped out of line, that he try to take a cut but it is all brazen and ridiculous.>> if we accepted
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that some of this is status quo for these folks and you talk about a cabinet that is largely filled at this point, is it your sense that during the confirmation hearings that you have members of the u.s. senate specifically republicans in the u.s. senate who are willing to go out and ask the hard questions about access, about influence peddling? >> yes, i just want to say, 30,000 might feel brazen but i think it is small potatoes to the type of money that is going to be moving around, and i think that is the big question i know, we saw this tiny bit of spine with matt gaetz, will they do the same if they have to speak in public customer i hope so, there's more positive signs but it remains to be seen. >> okay, tim, the new york times reporting that mitch mcconnell is feeling liberated, ready to stand up for his chambers independence, do you buy that? >> you know what, i'm going to
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let myself get suckered in a little bit, i do buy it a little bit, i think the matt gaetz thing was surprising honestly, i actually thought both the republican senate would bend over and say sure, why not? and trump would push for it. neither happened. mitch mcconnell, i think to a degree, if you look at these nominees one by one, he should in theory have problems for different reasons, for rfk junior obviously, mitch mcconnell's opponent, he clearly believes in vaccines, and rfk junior is clearly a skeptic. for tulsi gabbard, mitch mcconnell has been pro- engagement with ukraine and the war against russia, obviously he has problems with tulsi gabbard. and for pete hegseth, you have to imagine that mitch mcconnell looks at it and says this is outrageous , why would we put a fox news television host into the department of the doj? it takes three others for
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anything to materially matter, so yes, i do think there might be something to it but i ultimately don't know if it is going to matter.>> thank you sam for your vote of confidence that i couldn't in fact run a bureaucracy, i appreciate it. tim, i feel like the dance you do is that sam allows the amber of an idea to live and you come in and throw cold water on it, so please tell me whether or not you believe this reporting about mitch mcconnell and also what it could mean, the importance of having a republican in the senate be able to act independently, even if that is only an idea. >> i would do more of an ambassadorship for you, but we can talk about it, we will negotiate, we'll see if boris can lobby on your behalf for some extra cash. as far as sam's hope for mitch
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mcconnell, i just don't have it. i would love to be surprised, if i'm going to be pleasantly surprised, then that would be great. but, why? what evidence would you have that these guys are going to actually show some spine? i don't really see it and i think the matt gaetz thing was probably a one off and trump didn't really fight for it, i thought he would fight for it more, trump is not going to get bullied by these guys for too long. and trump doesn't like anything more than humiliating establishment republicans. so, i just don't expect he's going to get pushed around by mitch mcconnell.>> thank you for joining me on this very special bulwark thanksgiving edition, it is good to see you both, we have a lot more to get to including an attempt to
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persuade the new york attorney general to drop her civil case against trump, the novel argument, it is for the good of the country. and trump's pick to lead the national institute of health is making health experts a little more than nervous, we will talk all about that, next.
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>> donald trump's list of
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leaders to take over the country's health agencies is nearly complete and hardly conventional. take for example this newly resurfaced podcast interview with robert f kennedy junior. >> i would probably today be diagnosed adhd, i couldn't sit skill, i had no idea what was happening in school and i was at the bottom of my class. i started doing heroin, i was at the top of my class, i was probably at some level medicating myself. but you know, it worked for me and if it still worked, i would still be doing it, but it didn't work.>> to recap, the prominent anti-effexor who may lead the department of health and human services says heroin
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helped him become a better student. in that same interview, kennedy goes on to suggest that antidepressants are the potential culprits behind the rise of mass shootings, and it can't be just the guns. just a couple of years after a global pandemic killed millions across the globe, kennedy wants to suspend the funding of infectious disease research by the national institute of health. yesterday trump picked right person to make that happen, a nonpracticing, stanford physician who was called for overhauling the agency. he was vocal about his anti- lockdown stance during the pandemic, coauthoring the great barrington declaration, which suggested that young people should be allowed to spread the coronavirus freely at the height of covid in order to reach herd immunity, dr. fauci dismissed the declaration of that as total nonsense.
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what has been the medical community's response to dr. bhattacharya's nomination ? >> and they are in a panic, especially infectious disease experts, very nervous about all of trump's picks, of course robert f kennedy and dave weldon, the former congressman trump has picked to run the cdc, they are all on a slate, a polite way of putting it would be unorthodox. >> so you would say specifically infectious disease doctors are concerned, what is it they are concerned about? >> robert f kennedy junior said he wants to cut the research budget for infectious disease, he says we are going to let infectious disease take a rest for the next eight years, experts know that a pandemic
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could happen at any time, we've got a bird flu outbreak in cattle and poultry and that is very worrisome, if bird flu were to jump from human to human, it would be far deadlier than covid. they are worried about nih, he stood in opposition to standard public health measures like masking and social distancing and school closures and experts who are more in the mainstream say that those measures saved a lot of lives and if we have another pandemic, they are very worried about how this trump team will respond. >> just to illustrate the extent to which you stood in opposition of those messages, he was one of the authors of the great arrington declaration, can you tell us a little bit more about that? >> it was a gathering of epidemiologists and others who issued this manifesto in 2020
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saying basically we should let covid spread unchecked throughout the population, among young people and people who are healthy while protecting the vulnerable and they called this focused protection and it was dismissed as fringe and in fact, dangerous . anthony fauci called it nonsense, francis collins said it was, bhattacharya was a french epidemiologist and we have to understand where bhattacharya is coming from, he is a medical economist so he's not pete -- speaking about a health frame of let's save as many lives as possible, he's thinking about balancing the economy and other factors against public health imperatives. >> to that point, as you know, a lot of these picks come down
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to managing budgets and making decisions about how money is spent, rfk junior has said he wants to move nih funding away from infectious disease research . what is your reporting telling you about whether or not that would be possible with dr. bhattacharya leading the nih? >> well, certainly the hhs secretary, if he is confirmed, has latitude over the budgets of the agencies, the underlying agencies if you will, nih reports to the hhs secretaries so it is certainly possible that funding would be cut. there's no question about that. >> i only have about a minute left but i want to ask you, from new reporting tonight from nbc news, rfk junior has likened to the vaccination to sexual abuse by the catholic church and claimant the cdc is a cesspool of corruption, filled with profiteers, harming
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children, and when you have talked to medical professionals, what is their concern about vaccinations specifically as it relates to america the young population?>> well, we are worried, vaccinations are dropping among children, more parents are opting out of vaccinating their kids, we are seeing measles outbreaks and the concern is that if someone like rfk gets confirmed, he will be urging states to drop their childhood vaccine mandates. these mandates have been the foundation of the greatest public health triumph in history which is the elimination of some very deadly diseases like polio and measles and mumps. so, there's obviously great concern about rfk junior's views on vaccination. how much he will be able to achieve, government is like a big battleship, it is hard to
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turn around but clearly the president-elect wants to shake things up with these nominees.>> thank you so much for your time and your expertise. still ahead, donald trump has already had all of his criminal cases postponed or dropped, he and his lawyers are pressing their luck with one more case, we will talk to kristi greenberg next. cade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ ask your doctor about farxiga.
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>> since donald trump became president-elect, his litany of criminal cases has slowly disappeared, sending in his hush money case in manhattan where a jury found him guilty is now indefinitely postponed, the pending federal cases against trump for his alleged mishandling of classified documents have now ended, earlier this week, jack smith filed motions to drop all 44 federal criminal counts in those cases. saying the justice department's position that he is sitting president cannot be charged. now trump's lawyer is demanding that the new york attorney general drop her case against trump, too. the attorney general charged trump of fraud.
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he owes the state of new york more than $450 million in damages, a judgment is currently being appealed, but in a letter to attorney general james, trump's lawyer argues resident trump has called for our nations partisan strife to end and for the contending factions that join forces for the greater good of the country, this call for unity extends to the legal onslaught against him and his family that permeated the most recent election cycle. joining me now is kristi greenberg, former federal prosecutor, good to see you, thank you for being here for the good of the country, what do you make of that? >> it's just so absurd, the idea , this whole letter, it is four pages and it is a history lesson, they are inciting abraham lincoln and the thanksgiving proclamation and george washington, all about this call for unity when all donald trump is called for is cause for retribution, against
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the prosecutors, he has called the democrats the enemy from within and this very lawyer who drafted this letter is the one who got up before the supreme court and said donald trump has the power to order seal team six to assassinate his political rivals, this is not about a call for unity, it is laughable , this is not a serious legal argument, nothing is a serious legal argument, it is more political rhetoric that is really on befitting of experienced defense counsel. >> and it is coming on the heels of these other cases being dropped. what makes this different?>> well, this is a civil fraud case, this is not a criminal case and this is not a federal doj where they dismiss their cases or move to dismiss their cases because there was doj policy to do that, here you have a civil case where there is supreme court law that is
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very clear and it was upheld in this most recent decision that says, if you're talking about unofficial acts that happened before the president was the president, there is no immunity for that and you actually can still bring those claims while a president is a sitting president. but, that is not at all in this letter, he cites a lot of case law and none of it relates to the fact that this is a civil case and it is different from the others. i think she gets a good laugh this thanksgiving, maybe she response to it but, it is clearly, this is nonsense, we are not dropping anything and by the way, he is asking for the entire case to be dismissed. donald trump was one defendant in this case but this was a case against other family members, against his businesses, not just against donald trump. the idea that letitia james should just drop the entire case against everybody is
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again, laughable.>> this request was sent by his pick for solicitor general, how unusual is that? >> this is also a love letter to donald trump, he talks about the fact that he's the most successful developer in all of new york city, this is a historic election, all of the flattery, that is why he was picked, this is what trump does, it's not just the law but all of his picks, you have to be somebody who flatters him and that is how you get into his orbit. he sees the department of justice and solicitor general and all of these legal positions really as people who are going to be his lawyers focused on his interests, not the interests of the public but his own and that is very dangerous and something we have never seen before. >> and when he said he's
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willing to take this case to the supreme court, what happens then?>> i think the president here is pretty clear at least with respect to this case but with the supreme court, who knows. i think we also thought there wouldn't be complete immunity for criminal prosecution, you know, that was a very surprising decision so i think you can never count out the supreme court to do something that hasn't been done before.>> kristy greenberg, thank you so much for being with us. coming up, the major showdown between major cities and officials over there radical plans for mass deportation of immigrants, that is next, stay with us. get fetching finds for friends with fur friends and everyone else on your list. for up to 60% off gifts that say i get you. etsy has it.
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in boston, the mayor said her city's police will not cooperate with federal immigration agents. all around the country, city and state level officials are preparing to fight the mass deportations and trump's team is preparing as well. the washington post is reporting that advisers to president-elect trump are discussing how to unilaterally stripped federal resources from cities if they refuse to participate in the deportations. how will this showdown play out? joining me is the former mayor of san antonio, texas, and deputy director of the immigrants rights project, thank you both for being here, help us understand the power that cities have to resist trumps deportation efforts? >> thank you, these mayors, mayor johnson, mayor bass in los angeles are following a long tradition of mayors who
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have poked -- pushed back against getting local police involved in immigration enforcement. there are many cities that don't participate in the 287 g program that involves local police acting as immigration enforcement agents and cities have what is known as home willpower under state constitutions so they have a good amount of power themselves. usually, the way the federal government would try to make them comply would be to threaten to withhold funding for transportation projects, for public safety, any number of other items if they don't comply. these conflicts have gone to court before and actually, the courts have been getting a lot of latitude to cities in certain cases, so it is going to be fascinating to watch and i think probably disappointing for donald trump if he tries to force these cities to comply
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with his wishes. i'm glad to see them standing up, i think it's what people need right now and it's also good for keeping neighborhoods safer, police chiefs make the argument over and over again, you turn local police into immigration agents, people will be afraid to report crime. >> that is such an important point, that we want to talk about public safety and what he is proposing will make u.s. citizens much less safe in their own communities. you have him saying he wants to use the military to help carry out his deportation plans. is that legal and can you talk us through the ways in which the aclu is preparing? >> first of all, for the secretary's point, i think that is critical, police chiefs around the country, particularly in big cities will tell you that if immigrants are scared to come out of their houses, to go to the police and report crimes, it makes
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everyone less safe so it is a matter of public policy. it doesn't make sense to terrorize immigrant communities and to try to enlist police chiefs to go after them. the aclu has been preparing for close to a year for a possible second term of the trump presidency and what he might do if he tries to involve the alien enemies act to have the military looking for immigrants. we think that is illegal and we are prepared for that. and on mass deportations, there are many ways we are going to push back. as we talked about, the public needs to push back and i think the public will push back. right now it's just this abstract notion of mass deportations. when i think they see it in practice, when they see babies left behind, innocent children going to foster care because we are deporting parents who are working in the communities and contributing to the communities
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with no criminal convictions. i'm hopeful the american public will say enough is enough, just like they did with family separation the first term.>> there's still a lot of details that have yet to emerge, we have some sense of their planning, there is the stickiness around how they are going to pay for their big ideas, that is one of the first hurdles they are going to have to get beyond that we have lived through this before, we know what workplace raids look like, we know the devastation that is left in the wake of those, and at the same time you have project 2025 calling for resending guidance about what are referred to as sensitive places. that was the guidance that prevented immigration officials from conducting arrests of sensitive places like schools, hospitals and places of worship. when you are showing up at someone's church and pulling people from the pews, it becomes
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very real that this is not targeted and it is going to affect a broad swath of american society. >> it is, i agree that it is not something i think that americans are going to like, it is not something that a lot of people i believe will support or stomach. they think it one way in theory on paper but to see it in practice, that is going to be something entirely different. it is going to very quickly come off as cruel and un- american, something that we don't practice, i think we don't want to engage in. and it has been quite a while since we have seen those images from family separation and kids held in detention centers, so that is what we are about to see a lot of again if trump marches down this path, and very quickly i believe public sentiment is going to turn against trump. i do think, i
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agree also it is important for people to make their voice heard. it can just be the lawyers and the politicians, it needs to be the public. >> and i want to be clear, we are talking about blue cities where these leaders are going to be maybe the final line of defense, there are first lines of defense that will come before them again, tom, senator collins, let's see whether or not they are willing to vote to fund mass deportations in this country, can you explain from a legal perspective, 54 days until donald trump is sworn in, what can be done in that time? >> i think the biden administration could take certain steps to ensure the law is violated once trump comes into power but i think right now we are trying to make sure we are connecting communities, connecting religious organizations to communities,
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so people know where to turn once it starts. we don't want to have to all of a sudden try and put things in place once it starts. and to your point, it is not just going to be the democratic mayors who are pushing back, i think mayors of all stripes, republican or democrat are going to be very disappointed if the federal government's rating immigrant communities because it is the republican mayors that recognize, forget the grand stand of revitalization, and they are not partisan about it, they just know that there communities are working better. so i'm hoping those republican mayors, local republican officials pushed back as well and say this is not what we want, you can go after criminals and national security threats, that is different. but let's be clear, mass deportation is not the way to go. >> thank you so much for being with us on this important
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topic. coming up, jack smith is done with donald trump, as he dismisses the charges in his two federal cases but is trump done with jack smith? we will discuss with david rohde after this quick break. ♪ vapocooooool ♪ nyquil vapocool. the vaporizing night time, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, best sleep with a cold, medicine. speaker: who's coming in the driveway? speaker: dad. dad, we missed you. daddy, hi. speaker: goodness. my daughter is being treated for leukemia. [music playing] i hope that she lives a long, great, happy life
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>> the department of justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted, the bad ones. the investigators will be investigated because the deep state last term for president
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trump, they were hiding in the shadows. but now they have a spotlight on them and they can all be investigated and the house needs to be cleaned out.>> former florida attorney general, pam bondi is investigating those who prosecuted donald trump, that was following the matt gaetz nomination, her past val of retribution is coming into focus this week with jack smith, having moved to abandon his investigations into trump, filing motions to drop all federal charges in the classified documents and election interference cases, and prosecuting a sitting president. jack smith has long bed -- been targeted but as the special counsel appears to be with trump, the question is whether trump and his allies have special interest with jack smith. joining is the senior executive
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editor at nbc news and the author of where tyranny begins, what a pressing and title. what steps do you think jack smith might be taking in anticipation of these investigations? >> i'm sure, i know other people who could be the focus of our hiring lawyers, the people that i know, i have not spoken to jack smith, they see years of investigations ahead but they are not worried about actually going to jail because they are very confident that they have done nothing illegal. there was particularly in the classified documents case, there was extreme, 100 classified documents, trump was asked to return them, he said he returned them all at one point and there was video footage that showed a lot of people hiding boxes the day the fbi came down and that what led to the search at mar-a-lago.
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these were basically removed by the supreme court which came in with a ruling that said presidents are immune from prosecution and -- >> as you are sounding reasonable, jack smith saying i'm wrapping up these cases because of the supreme court, you have senator mike lee of utah pointing to smith's actions as a sign that these investigations were political, there's going to be chaos in the mix. >> and i just want to say, withdrawing the cases is exactly an example of jack smith following doj rules, this is a rule that was set up during watergate and nixon, a sitting president should not be criminally prosecuted, you shouldn't have a local d.a. prosecuting because it would lead to chaos, so the substance
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of these cases have not been dismissed by any court, and the florida judge ruling, it was a technicality that jack smith wasn't properly named a special counsel, so the fact that jack smith is doing this, and obeying this norm shows the fairness of the system and he said that in this statement that he was doing this because of the need for a president to be free from this but he wasn't doing it because of the weakness of the case or something improper, what happened on january 6 is incredibly serious and so was president trump's handling of classified documents.>> do you have a sense of how career prosecutors are winding down with this?>> yes, they are looking to lead the department but most people are staying. >> staying so long as they are welcome. >> a second project the trump
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administration has talked about, right now there's only about 4000 political appointees , there's a few dozen at the doj, there is talk of changing that and instead, having tens of thousands of people personally appointed by the president of the united states, that would give even more power to the president and our system is a division of powers between three branches, it is frustrating but this is the key of this whole deep state, the theme is that there is out of control bureaucrats who are unfairly prosecuting the president and wasting taxpayer dollars, i have not found evidence of that. these are generally people, there is bias they want to support their own department they work in but i have not found any evidence that there is a secret cabal of prosecutors who are trying to undermine democratically elected presidents. if you want to shrink it, that is fine, this is a different level. again, there's some
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secret coup by workers at the epa and the department of interior and the justice department and again, i have not found evidence of that.>> pam bondi, she comes with her own challenges in terms of confirmation, the lobbying, the trump university back and forth , do you think that she sails through? >> i think she has a lot of experience, she was a local prosecutor, what does she do? i think there will be an investigation of jack smith, i don't think they will find crimes. jim comey committed crimes. john brennan committed crimes. durham did not have any strong cases. i think it will be the same. >> thank you so much for coming in. that does it for our show tonight. you can catch me back here on the weekend. now it is time for the last
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word with my friend

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