system. right? where you have people who are going to make a decision on these cases. i don't really care. understanding again the trauma inflicted and for people. the cdc does studies where we lose trillions of dollars a year in economic losses because these offenses and the effect it has on society in general. these crimes matter and those voices matter. and these people, sexual assault survivors matter too. >> michigan attorney general dana, thank you very much. that is all in for this week. have a great thanksgiving. alex wagner tonight starts right now with alicia in. >> good evening. happy thanksgiving. >> donald trump is nearly

finished with two cabinet level positions still unfilled. for the past 24 hours, the trump transition has announced a new wave of administration picks. today, trump announced he will nominate retired army lieutenant general keith kellogg to serve as special envoy for ukraine and russia. general kellogg has advocated for a cease fire. so far, trump has filled nearly 60 spots in his administration. all at break-neck speed. it is notaeums the speed and the qualifications and the various nominees turns heads. this week, multiple news outlets reported the trump transition is investigating long time trump adviser boris

epstheyn. he asked potential administration nominees to give him monthly consulting fees in exchange for advocating for them to trump. this isn't new to trump's circles. during the first trump administration, trump's lawyer and fixer was accused of trying to cash in on his proximity to trump. >> tonight, nbc news is learning new details about those payments including some from companies that had business pending with the new administration. saying cohen reached out to the company's ceo shortly after the election promising access to the new administration. they paid cohen nearly $1.2 million.

>> he trying to shake down scott bessent for $30,000 a month. in an interview with conservative news outlets, just the news, trump said, it is a shame. but it happens but no one working for me should be able to. unacceptable unless you are donald trump himself. with branded watches and bibles and sneakers and now, maybe even guitars? trump's son eric issued what can only be perceived as a light warning. >> i had known boris for years and never knew him to be anything but a good human being. i will tell you my father has been clear. you do not do that under any circumstance. and there will be repercussions.

i have never seen that side of him. i certainly hope the reporting is false. and i can also tell you if it is true. the person will probably no longer be around. >> trump has not fired epsyhne. but some members of trump's circle are concerned by his deal making and want him out. this episode is another reminder of the importance of guardrails. traditional vetting processes that the trump transition has so far sought to avoid. joining me, good evening guys, good to see you both. sam, just two weeks ago, the new york times is writing a profile about epsthyn. life comes at you fast. what do you make of all this? >> first of all, thanks for having us. i guess there is no such limit

to too much bull work. this seems par for the course. honestly, in any other circumstance, this could be terribly corrupt and it is terribly corrupt but in this case, selling access is something that we have seen before. it is important to know boris and how he got here. he was one of the early, early trump aides in 2015. very few people were willing to go on tv and vouch for donald trump. boris is one of them. he had taken on a fixer role. boris has problems dealing with other people. let's put it that way. he wears on people. people look at him suspiciously. they sense he is corrupt. to stop the steal campaigns.

he earned trumps law and appreciation. he is stuck with him and trump looks at him as a dutiful soldier. it is telling. l soldier. it is telling. continues as far as we know to be employed by the trump transition. employed by the trp transition. >> it may be thanksgiving week we are living in groundhog day, and that's where we will relive the same thing. re we will reli the same thing. donald trump has a few random issues he cares about.

everything else he is pliable on based on the last person in his ear. we saw it during the first administration and his family and jared kushner chief among them concerning the amount of money they adreceived for advocating for a certain interesting. cory is around and boris is not going anywhere and in the trump world you have warring factions leaking against each other and hate the immediate and and talk to the media to leak against their i tern rivals and a lot of guys will be open for business in ways the most generous thank you can say is enter into a gray areas. >> asking the future treasury secretary pick for 30k a month, it's pretty brazen right? i don't want to skip over that do you have any reporting any

sense of -- is donald trump angered by the fact he was potentially trying to make money off the access but i mean, he was doing it so brazenly. >> it's brazen and idiotic how he suspected it won't get back to trump is beyond me and in terms of reporting, our reporter, reports people internally within the orbit have long found boris to be, you know, abrasive and don't want him around frankly. he got into a fight with elon musk already. elon thinks he is inan idiot and trump is fine if you pay trump. there's a reason elon has this position and he spent hundreds of millions of dollars to help trump get elected but trump is not fine when you are taking a

slice of the cash. and that's why, and this what what was reported and that's why trump is upset right now. boris is trying to get his. and trump thinks that it's totally irresponsible and outside the lines if you profit off his own name. that's where boris stepped out of line. is that he tried to take a cut. it's brazen and ridiculous. >> if you accept him which i don't wanty of us to accept, but if we did, some of this is status quo for the folks and you talk about a cabinet that's largely filled out at this point, is it your sense during the confirmation hearings you have members of the republicans in the senate willing to go out there and ask the hard questions about access and influence peddling. >> yeah, i will get to the republican senators but i want to say, 30,000 might feel brazen but i think it's small potatoes to the money around d.c. and as far as republican senators, i think that's a big

question right now. we saw the tiny bit of spine when it came to matt gaetz will they do the same when they speak in public? i hope so. there's more positive signs but remains to be seen. >> sam, you have "the new york times" reporting mitch mcconnell is feeling liberated ready to stand up for his chamber's independence, do you buy that, sam? >> you know what, i am going to let myself get suckered in a little bit. i buy it a tiny bit. i think the gaetz thing was surprising. i actually thought the republican senate would bend over and say sure why not and also trump would push for it. if push came to shove. neither happened. and mcconnell, i think, you know, to a degree if you look at nominees he should have problems with each for different reasons for rfk jr.

mcconnell believes in vaccines and rfk jr. is a critic and tulsi gabbard, you know, mcconnell has been proengagement with ukraine and war against russia. obviously he has problems with tulsi gabbard who is a putin apologist. mcconnell look this and says it's an outrageous pick. why would we put a television host no offense to television hosts. why do we put that person in charge of the dod that seems outlandish. he may be liberated but it takes three others in addition to mcconnell for anything to materially matter. i do think there might be something to it, but i ultimately don't know if it will matter. >> thanks, sam for your vote of confidence that i could manage a bureaucracy. >> you could manage any department you want, okay. >> tim, i feel like the one-two dance you do is sam allows the ember of an idea to live and you come in and three cold

water on it. tell me if you believe the reporting about mcconnell and what it could mean. the importance of having a republican in the senate be able to act independently even if that's only an idea. >> yeah, i was thinking ambassadorship for you, but, you know, we can talk about it. we can negotiate. we will see if boris can lobby on your behalf. for extra cash. as far as what sam's home for mitch mcconnell. i don't have it. i don't -- i would love to be surprised if i am going to be pleasantly surprised that would be great. but, you know, like why? what evidence would you have that these guys are going to, you know, actually show some spine. i don't really see it and i think the gaetz thing was probably a one off and trump as said sam trump didn't fight for it. i thought he would fight for it more. trump is not going to get bullied by the guys for too

long. the thing that nothing that -- trump doesn't like anything more than humiliating establishment republicans more than nicknaming or golfing or other interest. i don't expect he will be pushed around by mitch mcconnell. >> tim miller sam stein thanks for joining me on this bull work thanksgiving edition of alex wagner tonight. we have a lot more to get to including a trump lawyer's attempt to persuade the new york attorney general to drop the civil case against trump. the novel argument for the good of the country. first, why donald trump's pick to lead the national institute of health is making health experts more than nervous. we will talk to someone who covers health policy for the new york sometimes next. the new york sometimes next.

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new reaction as result of the presidential election reverberate throughout the country. >> we are getting a picture of what a donald trump cabinet looks like. >> president-elect trump's return to the white house has shaken nato allies. >> pre president-elect trump will inherit a chaotic situation in the middle east. >> firefighters on both coast battling dangerous blazes. >> federal reserve is widely expected to lower interest rates. >> in israel. >> new hampshire. >> from msnbc world headquarters. . . donald trump's list of leaders to take over the

country's health agencies is nearly complete and hardly conventional. take for example this newly resurfaced podcast interview with robert f. kennedy jr. >> i live proudly today diagnosed adhd. i was bouncing off the walls. i couldn't sit still in school. i was noncompass and he had no idea what was happening and at the bottom of my class. i started doing heroin and went to the top of my class and i could sit still and read and i could concentrate. i was probably hit some level medicating myself, but, you know, you know, it worked for me, and if it still worked i would still be doing it, but it didn't work. >> okay. so to recap the prominent antisackser who may lead the department of health and human services says heroin helped him

become a bet are student. kennedy goes onto suggest that antidepressants are some of the potential culprits behind the rise of mass shootings. he claimed "it can't be just the guns. just a couple of years after a global pandemic killed millions across the globe, kennedy wants to suspend funding infectious disease research by the national institute of health. yesterday, trump picked just the right person to help make that happen as leader in the. h dr. jay bhattacharya a nonpracticing physician called for overhauling the agency. he was vocal about antilack down stance and coauthored the great barrington declaration and young people should be allowed to spread coronavirus to reach heard immunity. anthony fauci dismissed it as total nonsense. joining me "new york times" washington correspondent covering health policy. good to see you. what has been the medical

community's response to dr. bhattacharya nomination. >> sheer terror. they are in a panic. especially infectious disease experts are very, very nervous about all of trump's picks. not only dr. bhattacharya but robert if kennedy and dave welden who trump picked to run the cdc. they are all on a slate of polite way of saying is unorthodox. >> infectious disease doctor are concerned what are they concerned about? >> well, as you mentioned, robert f kennedy jr. said he wants to slash the research budget for infectious disease. he says we are going to let infectious disease take a rest for the next eight years. experts know that you know a pandemic could happen at any time. we have got a bird flu outbreak

in cattle, and poultry, and that's very worrisome if bird flu were to jump from human to human it would be far deadlier than covid. they are worried about jay bhattacharya. he stood during the pandemic in opposition to standard public health measures like masking, and social distancing. and school closures. and experts who are more in the mainstream says the measures saved lot of lives and if we have another pandemic, they are very worried about how this trump team will respond. >> just to illustrate the extent to which he stood in opposition to some of the messages -- methods and messages he was one of the authors of the great barrington declaration. can you tell us about that how it was received. >> the great barrington declaration was a gathering of epidemiologists and others who issued this manifesto, in 2020 saying basically that we should

let covid spread unchecked throughout the population. among young people, and people who are healthy while protecting the vulnerable. and they called this focused protection. and it was dismissed as fringe and in fact dangerous. people tony fauci, as you said called it nonuses and francis collins says watt -- bhattacharya was a fringe epidemiologist. he is a medical economists. so, he is not thinking in a public health frame of let's save as many lives as possible or let's stop the spread of the disease at all costs. he is thinking about balancing the economy and other factors against public health impairtives. >> to that point, as you know, a lot of the picks come down to managing budgets and making

decisions about how money is spent. rfk jr. wants to move nih funding a way from infectious disease research. what does your reporting tell you whether or not that's possible with a dr. bhattacharya leading nih. >> well, certainly, the hhs secretary if robert f. kennedy is confirmed has wide latitude over the budgets of the agencies, the underling agencies nih, reports to the hhs secretary. so it's certainly possible that funding would be cut. there's no question about that. >> i only have a minute left but i want to ask you we have new reporting from nbc news, let me read you a little bit of that rfk jr. likened vaccination to sexual abuse by the catholic church and claimed the cdc is a cesspool of corruption filled with prop tiers and likened to nazi death camps. when you have talked to medical

professionals, what is their concern about vaccinations specifically as it relates to america's young population. >> well, we are worried vaccination is dropping among children, more and more parents are opting out of vaccinating their kids. measles outbreaks now. and the concern is that if someone like rfk is confirmed, he will be urging states to drop their childhood vaccine mandates. the mandates have been the foundation of the greatest public health triumph in history which is the elimination of some very, very deadly diseases like polio, and measles, and mumps. so, there's obviously great concern about rfk jr.'s views on vaccination. now how much he will be able to achieve, you know, government is a big -- it's a big battleship and hard to turn around. but clearly, the president-

elect wants to shake things up with the nominees. >> thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> and expertise. still ahead tonight, donald trump as president-elect had all of his criminal cases postponed or dropped. but he and his lawyers are pressing their luck with one more case. we will talk to former federal prosecutor christy greenberg all about that next. prosecutor christy greenberg all about that next. sleep more deeply and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattresses exclusive gel flex grid draws away heat, relieves pressure and instantly adapts. sleep better. live purple. save up to $1,500 during our black friday flash sale. visit purple.com or a store near you.

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since donald trump became president-elect the litany of criminal cases disappeared. sentences in the hush money case where the guilty is postponed. pending federal cases for alleged mishandling of classified documents attempts to overturn the 2020 election have ended. earlier this week special council jack smith filed motions to drop all 44 federal criminal counts in the cases. citing justice department's position that a sitting president cannot be charged. and now, trump's lawyer is demanding that new york tone general letitia james drop the case against trump too. she successfully pros caughted him for civil fraud and he was found liable for manipulating net worth to dough fraud banks and owes the state of new york more than $450 in damages.

a judgment is currently being appealed. but in a letter to attorney general james, trump's lawyer argues president trump has called for our nation's partisan strive to end and for the contending factions to join forces for greater good of the country. this called for unity extends the legal onslaught against him and his family but permeated the recan't election cycle. joining me is kristy greenberg who served for over a decade in the u.s. attorney office for the southern district of new york. good to see you. thank you for being here for the good of the country. what to you make of that. >> i mean, it's just so absurd, right, the idea that this whole letter is four pages and it is a history lesson. he is citing lincoln and thanksgiving practice lamation and george washington all about this call for unity. when all donald trump is called for call for retribution against people investigating him and the prosecutors who prosecuted his cases, and he

called democrats the enemy from within. and then this very lawyer who drafted this letter is the one who got up before the supreme court and said donald trump has the power to order seal team 6 to assassinate his political rivals like this is not about a call for immunity. it's laughable. it's not serious legal argument nothing in here is a serious legal argument. it's more political rhetoric that's really as judge chutkan said about trump's lawyers unbefitting of defense counselor. >> it's on the heels of the other cases being dropped. what makes this case different. >> well, one way in which the case is different is this is a civil fraud case. this is not a criminal case. and this is not federal doj where they dismiss their cases or you know moved to dismiss the cases because there was doj policy to do that. here, you've civil case where there is supreme court law that is very clear in clinton v jones and it was upheld in the most recent immunity decision that says if you are talking

about unofficial acts that happened before the president was the president, there is no immunity for that. and you actually can still bring those claims while a president is a sitting president. like that case can go on. but that jones didn't show up the four pages he cites case law and none relates to the fact that this is a civil case and it is different from the others. >> so what do you think james does? >> i think she laughs and gets a good laugh this thanks giving. maybe she responds to it, but it is clearly a hey, this is nonsense we are not dropping anything. and by the way, he is asking for the entire case to be dismissed. so donald trump was one defendant in the case. but this was a case against other family members, this was a case against trump's businesses. right, like this was not just against donald trump. so the idea he should -- that she should drop the case against everybody is just again laughable. >> so, this request for dismissal it was sent by john

sower who is john's pick torso listtor general how unusual that. >> this is why -- it's also the letter is a love letter to donald trump pea talks about the fact that he is at most successful developer in all of new york city, this is a historic election victory. all the kind of flattery that is in here that, i mean, that's why he was picked. this is what trump does. it's not just the law but all of his picks you have to be kissing the ring, you have to be somebody who flatters him and that's how you get in his orbit and he sees the department of justice, and the solicitor general and all of these legal positions really as people who are going to be his lawyers. focus on his interests, not the interests of the public but his own. and that's very, very dangerous in something we have never seen before. >> perhaps he said he is willing to take case up to the supreme court what happens then? >> i mean, again i think the supreme court precedent here is

pretty clear. at least with respect to this case. but, with the supreme court, who knows. we also thought that there wouldn't be complete immunity from criminal prosecution for official acts. and that's a very surprising decision. so, i think you can never really count out the supreme court to do something that has not been done before. >> kristy greenberg what a treat to have you in studio. coming up the latest on showdown between leaders of major u.s. cities and incoming trump administration officials over their radical plans for mass deportation of immigrants. that's next. stay with us. tion of immigrant that's next. stay with us. regina king is in our studio looking radiant as ever. don't cover up your glow. ♪♪ flawless. all eyes on you. skin esteem is a beautiful thing. ♪♪

trump's new border czar tom oman is willing to arrest leaders like yourself for standing in the way of the policies they want to enact. would you be willing to go to jail for these things. >> yeah, i am not afraid of that. >> that was denver mayor mike johnston said we be willing to go to jail to stop the mass deportation of immigrants. in los angeles city council passed a sanctuary city ordinance barring resources from being used for federal immigration enforcement in boston michelle wu said the city's police will not

cooperate with federal immigration agents. all around the country city and state level officials are preparing to fight trump's mass deportations. and trump's team is preparing as well. the washington post is now reporting adviser to president- elect trump are discussing how to ute laterally strip federal resources if cities that refuse to participate in the mass deportation agenda. so, how will the showdown play out. joining me former secretary of housing and urban development and the former mayor of san antonio, texas. deputy director of the aclu immigrants rights project. thank you both for being here. as former mayor, help us understand the kind of power that cities have to resist trump a deportation efforts. >> thanks, well, these mayors mayor johnston and mayor bass are following in a long tradition of mayors who have pushed back against getting local police involved in

immigration enforcement. there are many cities that don't participate in what's known as 287g program that involves local police acting as immigration enforcement agents. and, you know, cities have what's known as home rule power under state constitution. so they have a good amount of power themselves. now usually, the way the federal government would try and make them comply would be to threaten to withhold funding for transportation projects, for public safety for any number of other items if they don't comply. these types of conflicts have gone to court before, and actually, the courts have been pretty -- have given a lot of latitude to cities in certain cases. and so, it's going to be fascinating to watch. and i think probably disappointing for donald trump if he tries to force these cities to comply with his wishes. i am glad to see them standing up. i think it's what people need right now, and it is also good

for keeping neighborhoods safer. police chiefs make the argument over and over. >> that's right. >> you turn local police into immigration agents, people will be afraid to report crime and every body will be less safe. >> i think that's such an important point if you want to talk about here is public safety. then what donald trump is proposing will actually make you as citizens much less safe in their own communities. you also have him saying he wants to use the military inside the u.s. to help carry out his deportation plans. is that legal and can you talk us through the ways in which the aclu is preparing. >> yeah, well, first for the secretary's on the i think that's critical. i think police chiefs around the country particularly in big cities, will tell you if immigrants are scared to come out of the house to, go to the police, to report crimes, it makes everyone less safe. so i think absolutely as a matter of public policy, it doesn't make sense to terrorize immigrant communities and to

try to enlist police chiefs to go after them who need their cooperation. the aclu is preparing for close to year now for possible second term of trump presidency and what he might do if he tries to invoke the aliens enemy act for military looking for that's illegal and mass deportations there's ways we will push back. but as we talked about before, it can't just be in the courts. the public needs to push back. i do think the public will push back. right now, it's just sort of this abstract notion of mass deportations and people say i am in favor of immigration reform. when i think they see little babies left behind and going to foster care because we are deporting parents who have been you know working in the communities contributing to the communities have no criminal convictions, and they start going after those people, i am hopeful the american public will say enough is enough just

like family separations the first term. >> right, and there's still a lot of details that have yet to emerge. we have some sense of what is the planning, there's the stickiness around how they are going to pay for all of their going ideas right. so that's the first hurdles they are going to have to get beyond. but we have lived through this before. we know what workplace raids look like. we know the devastation that is left in the wake of some of those raids and at the same time, you have project 2025 calling for rescinding ice guidance about referred to sensitive places. let's read from the guidance interest prevented immigration officials from conducting arrests at sensitive places like schools, hospitals, and places of worship. and i mean, when you are showing up at someone's church and pulling people from the pews, it becomes very real that

this is not targeted and it is going to affect broad swath of american society. >> it is. i agree that it is not something i think that americans are going to like. it's not something that a lot of people i believe will support. will stomach. they think of it one way in theory on paper but to see it as was said, in practice, that is going to be something entirely different. and it's going to very quickly come off as cruel and unamerican something that we don't practice. i think we don't want to engage in. it's been a while since we have seen those images from family separation and kids held in detention centers and so forth. that's what we are about to see a lot of again. if trump marches down this path. and, very quickly, i believe public sentiment is going to turn against trump and administration, and i do think -- i agree it's important for people to make their voice

heard. it can't just be the lawyers and the politicians speaking. it needs to be the public. >> right, and i want to be clear, lee, we are talking about, you know, blue cities, blue states where some of these leaders are going to be maybe the final line of defense. there are first lines dove fence that will come before them again. tom tillis senator collins let's see whether or not they are willing to vote to fund mass deportations in this country. could you explain from a legal perspective, there's 54 days until donald trump is sworn in what can be done in that time? >> yeah, well, i think the biden administration can take certain steps to ensure that the law is not violated once trump comes in to power. but right now what we are trying to do is make sure we are connecting communities, connecting religious organizations and ngos to communities so people know where to turn once it starts. we doesn't want to have to all of a sudden try to put things

in place once it starts. and i think to your point, it's not just going to be the democratic mayors pushing back. i think maybes of all stripes republican democrat are going to be disappointed if the federal government is coming in and raiding immigrant communities because it's the republican mayors you know many places, that recognize forget the grandstanding by immigration. ilgrants revitalized the communities and making their communities work. and they are not partisan about it. they know that their communities are working better with immigrants. so i am hoping those republican mayors local republican officials, push back as well and say wait, this is not what we want. you request go after hardened criminals national security threats that's different. but let's be clear, mass deportation is not the way to go. >> thank you both so much for being with us on this important topic. coming up, jack smith is done with donald trump as he moves to dismiss the charges in

his two federal cases. but is trump done with jack smith? we will discuss with nbc news national security edtor david rode after this quick break. vi rode after this quick break. you're stuck dealing with leaves, debris, all kinds of headaches. excuse me. i'm sorry to interrupt. i'm ray sparks from 318 down the street. you did our gutters last year. the sparks family. we cleaned, sealed and installed leaf filter. yes, sir. of course. i love you, man. you make me feel so free. to schedule your free inspection. call 833 leaffilter today or visit leaffilter.com.

>> the department of justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted. the bad ones. the investigators will be investigated. because the deep state last term for president trump they were hiding in the shadows. but now they have a spotlight on them. and they can all be

investigated, and the house needs to be cleaned out. >> former florida attorney general pam bondi promised to investigate those who prosecuted donald trump. and that was before trump tapped her to be the next attorney general following the implosion of congressman matt gaetz nomination. the path of retribution is coming into focus with jack smith moved to abandon the investigation into trump. filing mowings to drop all federal charges in the classified documents and election interference cases citing long-standing justin department policy against prosecuting a sitting president. he has been a target for president-elect and his allies but as special council appears to be finished with trump, question now, is whether trump and his allies are finished with jack smith. joining me is david rohde senior executive editor of national security and author of

where tyranny begins. what a title. all right. what steps do you think jack smith might be taking in anticipation of the investigations? >> i am sure he is lawyering up. other people could be focus of trump investigations hiring lawyers. the people i know i have not spoken to jack smith, they are not -- they see maybe years of investigations ahead, but they are not worried about actually going to jail. because they are very confident that they have done nothing illegal here. there was particularly in the classified documents case, there was, you know, extreme hundred classified documents, trump was asked to return them for over a year, he said he returned them all at one point, and then there was video footage that showed actually people hide a bunch of boxes the day the fbi came down there and that's what led to the search of mar-a-lago. with jack smith's cases, these were basically removed by the supreme court which came in, you know with a ruling that

said, you know presidents are immuned from prosecution and ruling by cannon. >> you sound reasonable which i love and love we are living here and not yet in the upside down shall but as you sound reasonable and jack smith saying i am wrapping up cases because of the supreme court, that you have senator mike lee of utah pointing to smith's actions a sign the investigations were political law fare. so it's going to be chaos agents in the mix. >> so, i just -- and i am just -- i just want to say that like withdrawing the cases is exactly example of jack smith following doj rules. and this is a rule set up during watergate a sitting president shouldn't be criminally prosecuted. a local d-a shouldn't prosecute a sitting president because it would lead to chaos and so, the substance of the cases, have not been dismissed by any court.

eileen cannon's ruling the florida judge was technicality that jack smith was not properly named, you know, a special crown counsel so the fact he is doing this and obeying the norm shows that the fairness of the system. and he said that in the statement that he was doing this because of the need for president to be free from this but he wasn't doing it because of the weakness of the case or this was something improper. what happened on january 6th was incredibly serious. and so was the president's -- sorry president trump's handling of classified documents. >> do you have a sense of how career prosecutors are dealing with the winding down of the cases? >> they-- the people involved are, you know, think. >> both. >> they are looking to leave the department. but most people are staying. and most people you know. >> staying so long as they are welcomed. >> staying so long as they are welcomed. a second project the trump administration talked about there's 4,000 political appointees by the president across the federal government. a few dozen in the doj.

you know, there's a talk of changing that. and instead having tens of thousands of people personally appointed by the president of the united states. that would give even more power to the president and you know, our system is a division of powers between three branches and frustrating, but it's divide powers. but this is sort of the key the deep state -- the theme is there's out of control bureaucrats unfairly prosecuting and the president who are wasting taxpayer dollars. i have not found evidence of that. you know these are generally poem -- there's bias and they want to support their own department they work in, but i have not found evidence there's a secret prosecutors who are trying to undermined democratically elected presidents. if you want to shrink government that's fine. you say there's too many employeeser there bureaucrats, that's fine. this is a whole different level that again there's some secret coup by workers at the epa and the department of interior and the justice department, and i,

again, i have not found evidence of that. >> less than 30 seconds left but pam bondi comes with her own challenges in terms of confirmation, the lobbying for qatar and trump university back and forth. do you think she sails through? >> i think she sails through. she has a lot of experience. she was a local prosecutor for 16 years. she was ag for two years. what does she do? you know does she -- i think there will be investigations of jack smith. it will be like the durham investigation i don't think they will find crimes. an effort gym comey committed crimes and durham didn't have any strong case and think the same thing could happen with bondi. >> david rohde thanks for coming in. that's does it for the show tonight catch me on the weekend 8:00 a.m. saturday and sunday. and now it's time for the last word with my friend, jonathan in for lawrence. good evening jonathan. >> hey, so do you cook for thanksgiving? or go out like we do? >> i do