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tv   Dateline  MSNBC  November 29, 2024 9:00pm-10:01pm PST

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double down, open our eyes. i talked to lindsay from the immigrant offenders law center, she said we had 30 lawyers under the first trump term, we have 200 ready to go. right now, there are people on the front lines that are sort of preparing for the type of deliberate cruelty, and that is me as a journalist, this is not my opinion, the deliberate cruelty of the first trump administration, they are saying that it will come again, and if you are turning away, you're not going to see it, you're not going to be able to react to it in a way that will stop them. >> those are the two things, people want to turn away, but they want to know how they can help, they can help by not turning away. jacob, thank you so much for spending this hour with us and for bringing this film to all of us. and thanks to all of you for letting us into your homes
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>> and at the time i thought it is not over yet. >> in the er suite, it was. her daughter was brought to her
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bedside. >> she said i don't think mommy is ever going to come home again. >> the third day after she had been wheeled into the er, her exhausted colleagues pronounced her dead and turned off the machines, keeping her alive. >> my life ive.feels like it is make sense without her. >> her husband and families now had funeral plans to make and darker days to get through. but one person wasn't done with the mysterious case of autumn klein, his work was just getting started. the associate medical examiner for allegheny county performed the autopsy on autumn. >> it was regarded as a sudden unexpected death. >> that meant the county had to figure out why this otherwise healthy woman was dead. there was no reason to suspect fertility hormones, vitamin supplements could have led to a collapse. her brain showed no signs of a
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stroke although there was an abnormally shaped heart valve. >> it is a congenital anomaly found in 2% of the population. >> does it lead to early death? >> not in your 40s. >> at the conclusion of the autopsy the medical examiner was perplexed as to what killed this woman. >> i'm not seen anything. i'm seeing a healthy white female. for all intents and purposes she should be alive. >> reporter: on the form that asked for cause of death he wrote pending, no definitive answer but in a few days time he would have more information. the blood work was back from the lab. autumn had suffered an unnatural death. tural death. >> coming up, what exactly had killed autumn? >> i was shocked. i couldn't say anything. nythi >> or is the question who? when dateline continues. ntinu carefully crafted by small businesses.
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two days out to the associate medical examiner performed the autopsy the phone rang. the voice on the other end was from the hospital. autumn's blood tests were back. he was startled to hear what the lab found. d. >> a deadly amount of cyanide. that told me that i have a cause of death now. . >> cyanide, the poison of the
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death camps and the jonestown massacre, lethal, fast killing stuff. not a common cause of death. >> this is my first case of cyanide poisoning. >> reporter: the toxicology work found cyanide levels of 3.35 milligrams per liter in autumn's blood. >> this is a lot of cyanide. >> that is correct. >> still, he needed to confirm the results. he wanted to re-examine the remains to see if he could find cyanide in other parts of the body but by then he had released her to the funeral home. >> so you go back to the body and take a second look. >> we would love to. when we got the phone call on tuesday that she had a lethal level of cyanide in her blood, i called the funeral home immediately and she had already been cremated. >> reporter: but they still had blood samples and the
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toxicology unit performed its own test. alicia smith added a simple solution to the blood. if cyanide was present it would turn the center well of this disc purple. they demonstrated what they found. found. >> this example that we use today is very representative of the autumn klein sample, almost identical. >> reporter: sure enough, the sample changed color. ost >> her color change was a deep dark purplish pink and obviously positive for cyanide. >> reporter: does that tell you you have a lethal amount ? >> yes, definitely. even the one milligram per liter and the light pink color change means there is cyanide there. a significant if not lethal amount of cyanide present. >> she had died from cyanide poisoning, no question about it, he said. he grew more confident when he reviewed the details of how she collapsed and suffered. once ingested it can quickly starve the body of oxygen.
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>> so oxygen is not being utilized by the body. >> reporter: it was the trapped oxygen that had turned her blood that vivid .. and he also considered the 911 call. her husband was begging for help and she could be heard moaning in the background. >> seat she is having a seizure. seizure. he says that was likely autumn struggling to breathe. another important sign that cyanide was in her system. he knew he had a bizarre death on his hands and immediately contacted the police. >> i let them know that cause of death is cyanide poisoning. you need to help me with the manner of death. >> reporter: he had wanted to er know if she ohad committed suicide or murdered. >> there is a note on my desk saying that the corners office had a woman who came in that had a lethal level of cyanide in her system. >> cyanide poisoning? how many of those have you seen? >> my first one. >> soon her mom was giving the
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results and she called her niece out in washington. >> she said are you sitting down? i was like okay. she said it was cyanide. >> just like that? >> and i was shocked. and i cannot say anything. i cannot catch my breath. eath >> when her colleague heard about it she knew right away her friend had suffered an agonizing death. >> as a medical professional i know about how people die from cyanide poisoning. and i could not dwell on that. >> reporter: l and just as in old cozy murder mystery about a cyanide poisoning in the village, the inspector was about to call. senior investigators were en route to talk to robert. did he have any idea how cyanide found its way into the bloodstream of his late wife? w coming up, a husband's theory of how and why his wife
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died. >> why would she do this to herself? >> what was he suggesting? did he know something that police didn't? when dateline continues. ntinu ! jason! boop! friends. let's go, let's go, friends! hold onto your dice. woohoo!! -nice frosting, pratt. -thank you! how we doin', keke? tastes like money to me. i can't go back to jail! wait, did you rob my bank? -hehe. -are we winning!? -ha ha ha! -oh boy! yeah! money, power, friendship. let's go! no more gross cough syrup. we all want you to feel better. i want extra tv time or i'll walk!
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millions are under winter weather alerts friday from northern minnesota into upstate new york in the great lakes region is experiencing snow effect expected throughout the weekend and in the south millions are under a freeze watch their. and we are getting a first look at the restored notre dame cathedral five years after a devastating fire devastated the landmark. the french president toured the restored cathedral which will reopen one week from now.
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five days after doctors turned off the machines on dr. klein, detectives made their way to the three-story house where she made a home with robert ferrante. jim mcgee took the lead. he was greeted and his partner. >> we started talking to him and what he can tell us about what happened to his wife at that point. >> reporter: he told his detectives how his wife had returned after midnight. >> she came through the door and collapsed on the floor. >> even recounted what he told 911. >> i think my wife is having a stroke. >> he thought his wife had suffered a stroke. the detectives informed him he was wrong about that. >> we asked him if he knew that his wife died from cyanide poisoning. he kind of gasped and said why would she do this to herself? >> why would she do that to herself? >> reporter: the man looked visibly shaken. it seemed he was suggesting his wife had committed suicide.
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he then told a story about autumn trying and failing to get pregnant. he said she had recently been taking creatine in the hopes it would help with fertility. the detective understood the late wife's emotional agony. >> she is trying to have another child and that is a lot of stress on a woman when they're trying to have children and they cannot have children. >> reporter: could be distressed state of mind lead to suicide? they had to consider that. but cyanide is an unusual way to kill yourself and a hard to get poison. how could she have gotten her hands on it? >> we looked into the labs where she worked. she did not work in a lab. she worked with patients. >> she was a clinical doctor, right? she was working hands-on. >> yes. >> but the relapse stocked with poisons including cyanide. maybe she wandered into one of those. those. detectives pulled hospital footage from the last day and
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here is what they saw. that is autumn as she is getting ready to leave work. she goes up a set of escalators, disappears for roughly 6 minutes before coming back down and heading home. question, in those minutes missing from the camera, had she found her way into a lab with toxins? >> maybe this is where she goes to get her hands on cyanide to inexplicably kill herself? >> that is correct. rect. >> it there was a problem with the scenario, a big one. the investigators learned that to get into any of the labs she would have needed a special access card. is there any sign she had a card swipe that put her in an area where another researcher or someone may have had cyanide? >> there are no card swipes at the time she left work. . >> the more they dug the less detectives believe this unexpected death was a suicide. true, autumn was frustrated
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with her infertility, but disappointment was all it was, thinks her cousin sharon. suicide was never on her radar. >> that was not autumn. >> family, friends and colleagues agree, autumn was a woman with plans to live, not die. she was scheduling vacations and new research projects just before her death. so your theory eathis she did n kill herself, the only place to go is homicide. >> that is correct. >> reporter: who would want to murder autumn klein? the spouse is almost always a suspect until they are not, but the husband was a renowned medical researcher who did not seem to fit the bill. >> a professional guy, well- regarded, there did not seem to be any money issues in the household. >> in fact their marriage appeared to outsiders to be a good one. still, detectives had to consider the husband's line of
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research. he worked routinely with toxins in his lab, but not with cyanide. more than a week after the first interview the husband detectives began talking to his lab associates. >> the people that we talked to said there was no research with cyanide. >> yet detectives were just getting started. they come through labs and laptops, interviewed friends and colleagues, reanalyzed hospital footage. ital footage >> once we got all the pieces of the puzzle we had our picture. >> a picture, he said, that revealed only one person with the motive and the means, her husband. husband. although the evidence was largely circumstantial, three months after her death the cops were ready to make an arrest. at the time he was visiting his sister in florida. the pittsburgh pd detective headed south to make the arrest, but when he got there the sister said he was gone. >> she said he got a phone call from an attorney and he got in the car and said i have to go
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and he left. >> did you think he was doing a run around you? >> he was trying to get away. >> yes. i mean, we were told he was going to his attorney, but he was running from us, he knew we were coming. >> in your books he is a fugitive. but not for long. he was on his way back to pittsburgh, to turn himself in, says the attorney, and he was pulled over by state police and later handed over to pittsburgh authorities. police had their man. now they and the commonwealth of pennsylvania had to prove to 12 men and women that he was the right one. >> it was a very clean case. >> to the judge that would preside over it all, the case was far from a sure thing and could leave jurors scratching their heads. >> i'm not one for predicting verdicts, but i would not have predicted one here. >> it could have gone either way and you would not have been
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surprised? >> that would be correct. >> coming up, was jealousy a possible motive for murder? what did he discover about his wife? >> if this was somebody that she was remotely interested in, she would have told me. >> when dateline continues. .. ? billy: no. grandma: generating offer... carvana can pick it up tomorrow! billy: that's an amazing offer. announcer: sell your car the easy way with carvana. - bye, bye cough. - later chest congestion. hello 12 hours of relief. 12 hours!! not coughing? hashtag still not coughing?! mucinex dm gives you 12 hours of relief from chest congestion and any type of cough, day or night. mucinex dm. it's comeback season.
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with wegovy®,... ...i'm losing weight,... ...i'm keeping it off,... ...and i'm lowering my cv risk. check your coverage before talking to your prescriber about wegovy®. let me set the record straight. are people born wicked? or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? oh! -ah! [ laughter ] no need to respond. that was rhetorical. hm, hmm. dr. autumn klein and dr. robert ferrante had all the
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trappings of success, prestigious jobs at the university of pittsburgh and its medical center, and at one time it all seemed enviable. >> did you think they were a good couple? >> yeah, i did. >> and then it all went so wrong. dead from a parent cyanide poisoning, her husband standing trial for her murder. even to the presiding judge with years on the bench, this was a first. >> we had a very intelligent man accused of poisoning his wife and experts who argue with one another. and very good lawyering and very good experts. >> reporter: it would be up to the prosecutor to explain what drove an otherwise mild- mannered scientist to kill the wife he supposedly loved, and in such a cruel manner. she opened by describing a man infuriated, one losing control of his more successful wife who had grown tired of him.
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alan jennings was in the courtroom. >> prosecutor say he was obsessed, jealous and he realized he was going to be dumped by his wife. >> reporter: the prosecutor asserted that the marriage was in freefall and autumn believed her husband had emotionally checked out, especially when it came to the issue of having another child. she told her cousin sharon he was a cold fish. >> my husband is a psychologist and is there a gene for compassion? because if there is he is missing it. ing it. >> the prosecutor showed an email autumn had sent her husband in the months before her death. she wrote, i realize now i have been alone in this entire emotional journey. i cannot even speak to you without getting angry. >> did she ever say i'm going to leave him? >> yes. she did to me, yes.
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>> and he was rattled to the core, city prosecutor, when he found out autumn was texting and emailing a male colleague she had spent time with in san francisco. the prosecutor suspected his wife was having an affair but she is certain that is not true. >> if this is someone she is remotely interested in she would have told me. >> so you don't think there is anything physical happening certainly? but as the prosecutors told it, the defendant believed otherwise. other than shoring up a crumbling marriage, the scientist, his wife the new rising star, came up with a cold leaded solution. he poisoned her. >> the motivation, just jealousy ? if he could not have heard no one was going to have her? >> ferrante, the prosecutor said , thought he could get rid of his wife quickly. when she did not die immediately he had to mislead the paramedics and doctors.
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the prosecutor played that 911 call. >> i think my wife is having a stroke. >> the prosecution was establishing dr. ferrante's attempts to lead everybody that he encountered, starting with the 911 operator. he said i think she has had a stroke. so steering it. >> when autumn finally died, ferrante said something that he thought would keep the cause of death secret. death secret. lois client testified that he said he did not want an autopsy. >> i said i am her mother and i want an autopsy. i said i cannot believe you don't want to know what happened to her, and his response was that people do that, they do autopsies, and then people do not want to know the results of it, so -- that was that. that.
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>> the prosecution had described a man who had lost control of his wife, killed her, and then tried desperately to cover it up. defense attorneys. >> you get this picture of a jealous guy whose career is being eclipsed by his wife, thinks she has a lover, and she is dead. >> that is the spin they put on this thing and the reality is that is not the case. >> they say the alleged motive made for melodrama but it was miles away from the truth. >> bob was very successful with huntington's disease and on the verge of big breakthroughs. >> bob ferrante was a living man, devoted to helping his wife, not hurting her, and to sell that image they flabbergasted the courtroom by calling the defendant himself to be stand. >> the defendant made that choice. i have often and.said that it i risky at best. the minute the defendant takes the stand we now have the government's proof versus the defendant's credibility. ndant
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>> a gamble ferrante was willing to make. he wanted jurors to see him for the man he was, one who loved his bright, complicated wife. >> you wanted the jury to understand what was going on in the marriage and you know, tell them how badly his wife wanted to have a child. >> he conceded he had been a jealous husband for a brief moment, but then he and autumn had kissed and made up in the weeks before her death. >> they go on a trip to puerto rico with their daughter. as the neighbors describe, when they come back they are glowing, they're in love, they are holding hands. those actions speak 1000 words. >> he said he honestly thought she was having a stroke. when she died he wanted simply to honor her wishes and donate her organs, and that is why he did not want an autopsy. >> he is aware that have a full autopsy is done it will destroy the ability to donate the organs, which was his wife's
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request. >> a loyal and loving husband to the end, not a mad scientist treating his wife like a lab rat, killing her with cyanide. speaking of which, the prosecution's claim of how she died was all wrong. >> there is not evidence that my client had anything to do with her death, let alone her death caused by cyanide. >> in age old poison and a connection to a medical researcher and it was about to be analyzed under a different kind of microscope, the unforgiving eye of the law. . coming up, one someone as smart as robert ferrante, would they really use something as obvious and easy to trace as cyanide? >> that is like me buying a shotgun and two hours later my wife is deceased from a shot gun. i would be the dumbest guy in the universe. >> when dateline continues. on
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welcome back to dateline. the prosecution made the argument that bob ferrante certainly had the means to kill his wife. now it was the defense's turn in their goal was to dismantle the largely circumstantial case presented, questioning the motive and whether she even died from the poison at all. now with the conclusion of lethal weapon, here is dennis murphy.
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>> the commonwealth of pennsylvania had tried to paint robert ferrante as a jealous husband, driven by rage to poison his wife. how did he do it? prosecutors believe he slipped the cyanide in a drink and gave it to her shortly after she came home, a theory the judge said that was tough to prove. >> no one stood there with their two eyes and said i saw him put the cyanide in the drink and give it to her. that is a weak point in the prosecution's argument. >> circumstantial evidence, even though most people do not believe what it really is, is very powerful. ry powerful. >> the prosecutor told the court that ferrante used his wife's vulnerability, namely her infertility, to trick her into taking cyanide that night. earlier autumn had sent him this text, i ovulate tomorrow and he texted back, perfect timing, creatine. smiley face. >> this is the solution? >> this is it.>> ferrante, the
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prosecutor alleged, had convinced her that creatine could help her get pregnant. he whipped up a poison drink. the theory was cooperated by something told later to a doctor friend of ferrante. >> he told him, he said i don't know, she came home, i gave her a creatine drink and passed out on the floor. >> and no one may have been the wiser for it if it had not been for a skyhigh amount of cyanide in autumn's blood. subsequent tests were also positive for the poison. the associate medical examiner underscored that for the jury. >> what caused this woman's death was cyanide poisoning, period. no doubt. oubt. >> more was there any doubt as to who poisoned autumn. police discovered the defendants laptop hidden in a laptop safe and inside it a wealth of information that told them bob ferrante had indeed
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been a very busy researcher in the months before his wife's death. >> dr. ferrante was googling searches concerning cyanide, where to purchase it, how to purchase it, the effects on people. >> he did not stop there. the prosecutor said bob ferrante made an interesting request, something later relayed to detectives. >> he goes to the purchasing person in the laboratory and he tells this person that he wants to order a bottle of cyanide. >> has he ever done that before? >> never. >> the doctor asked for the cyanide to be delivered overnight. >> when is all this in relation to autumn slipping to the floor? >> two days prior. >> he says ferrante had left his fingerprint on the container, which had 8.3 grams of cyanide missing. >> that is like a heaping teaspoon full maybe? >> i think about a teaspoonful,
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about eight grams. >> is that a lethal amount of cyanide? >> yes. >> the prosecutor said he thought he was so smart, fooling his wife and then everyone else by using a poison he assumed was untraceable. >> standing and looking at unt jury, he points to ferrante , that man right there was one blood test away from the perfect murder. >> they say robert ferrante did not commit a crime because there was no crime. >> i said this as forcefully as i could, we do not believe and we will never believe that autumn klein died from cyanide. >> they were attacking the blood test that could never be trusted, they said. >> there is no way that result is reliable, throw it out. yes. >> he says the lab initially
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screwed up with the calculation and only caught the error months later, correcting the level ii 2.2, a still lethal amount of cyanide in autumn's blood. >> it raises a real issue of credibility. >> it gives the defense something to work with. >> it gave them a lot to work with. >> far more reliable was another test done in the weeks after her death. it found cyanide in her blood but at low levels, nowhere near lethal. >> that alone as he eloquently articulated, was more than reasonable doubt for this jury to acquit mike client. >> the reports are highly conflict in. >> hly reporter: the defense h introduced him into the legal mix, a renowned pittsburgh internationally recognized pathologist of many years. he had weighed in on cases from the jfk assassination and the deaths of elvis pressley and jonbenet ramsey. he told the court that they
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demanded a tiebreaker. >> you have to send it in again for laboratory testing, preferably to a third highly respected toxicology lab. that was not done. >> more compelling was evidence of scarring around her heart, which could have triggered an electrical malfunction stopping the organ. only on the spot cpr could have saved her. >> the absence of somebody hitting you in the chest, somebody knowing what they're doing with training and cardiopulmonary resuscitation, you probably will die. >> the defense said she could have died from natural causes. they added that crime scene technicians never did find so much as a trace of the poison. and the clients google searches, done for research purposes, not murder. >> here he is in january asking about the nature of cyanide. this looks very bad.
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>> in april he is asking about cyanide, potassium cyanide for a research project. >> he further explained his actions. he ordered the poison for work and took it out of the box when it arrived. that is why his fingerprint was on the container.besides, his lawyer added, a man as smart as bob ferrante would never use a weapon that could so easily be traced back to him. >> that is like me buying a shotgun telling everyone i just bought a shotgun and two hours later my wife is deceased from a shotgun. you would be the dumbest guy in the universe. >> they begged the jurors to use their common sense, which they later said is what they did. their common sense and the science presented told them that autumn klein had died from cyanide poisoning because the defendant gave it to her. they found him guilty of first- degree murder. >> crushing, especially in this case, absolutely crushing. ly
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>> yep. good description. description >> robert ferrante was sentenced to life in prison. at the time of the interview autumn's family thought they had gotten justice. the anger towards her husband had been overshadowed by all the what if's. >> not only do i grieve autumn and the loss that she is to me and to us as a family and to our community and friends, but also her patients. my heart breaks for her patients. >> reporter: it was all that she ever wanted to do, help others. now that chance is gone. e. swept away way too soon. n. that is all for this edition of dateline. thank you for watching. tching

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