unhealthy way, clearly, let's just stipulate that. but he seems to be more interested in foreign affairs than i think people have understood. he appears to have voted for trump in 2016 and appears to be maybe just a disaffected trump voter. he wanted a ramaswamy-niki haley ticket earlier this year. he's not on its face a dye in the wool democrat but he's clearly been politicized in recently years very intensely. >> that's a good assessment. i have to read about the other piece you wrote about president biden and the pros and cons of potentially pardoning or commuting the two potential sentences of his son hunter. despite him saying he wouldn't do either, you make a case for the president do it before he leaves office and expect backlash if he does. can you go quickly for our viewers? >> i think there are two key points here. one is the two criminal cases brought against hunter biden concerning his rchase of a

drug -- excuse me, a gun while being a drug user in delaware while evading tax charges effectively in california, given the nature of the conduct of each of those cases -- and i won't dig into particulars, but the key take away is that those sorts of episodes are usually reswraufled not through criminal prosecutions but through diversion programs and maybe fines with things like the tax charges. there was a plea deal in place, and this is the second key point. there was a plea deal in place last summer of course that would have resolved these cases without hunter biden going to prison. but a judge balked and the trump appointees balked claiming it was a sweetheart deal, but it was not. i think when we take the whole thing in its entirety and take a big step back here and say, okay, donald trump was being prosecuted, too, he's going to the white house. president biden's son would potentially be going to prison. i mean, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me intuitively, and it seems quite unfair.

>> okay. it's very nice to meet you on the air. come see us again. thank you. coming up the word of the day meat loaf. i'm not kidding. you're going to understand in about 30 seconds. good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we begin this hour with 51 days until inauguration and new details on donald trump's first round of sparring with world leaders and a surprise visit to mar-a-lago by canadian prime minister justin trudeau. this photo shared by pennsylvania senator-elect dave mccormick seen here at the table -- at the front of the table there in the center shows prime minister trudeau last night next to trump after trump threatened a 25% tariff on imports from both canada and mexico. the toronto star reports that meat loaf was on the menu along with meaty matters including unresolved contentious issues.

mexico's new president on thursday pushed back on trump's claims to close the border and even declared there would be no tariff war while democrats warned of potential consequences. >> these are our two largest trading partners on our north and south, canada and mexico. it's going to affect the price of cars, the price of trucks, the price of food. unfortunately, see an administration more keen on tearing things down rather than building up and improving the lives of the american people. meanwhile on this small business saturday amazon workers around the world are taking part in a strike until sunday. they accuse the company of abuses and that's to democracy. amazon pushed back on those accusations saying, coat, we provide great pay, great benefits, and great opportunities, adding we created more than 1.5 million jobs around the world. in just this last hour vice

president harris was at a bookstore in d.c., out there supporting small business this saturday. and a new analysis by nbc shows how the 2024 national vote stacked up. according to the actual popular vote count kamala harris got 48.3% of the vote, trump got 49.9%, while the final nbc news poll showed harris and trump tied at 49%. we've got several reporters and analysts ready to unpack the big headlines of this day. we're going to start with nbc's ali raffa in west palm beach, florida. just a few moments ago donald trump named his pick for a critical ambassador post. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: in just the last few minutes we've seen this announcement by president-elect trump announcing he's picked charles kushner to serve as ambassador to france. he says in a statement in part, quote, kushner is a great

business leader, fillen thropist and business leader. charles kushner is the father of president-elect trump's son-in-law, jared kushner, who's married to his daughter ivanka trump, the younger kushner serving as one of trump's senior advisers during his first administration. but if confirmed because remember this ambassadorship is still a confirmable position, he will bring to the table a very controversial past. remember in 2005 he pled guilty to tax evasion, witness tampering, as well as making illegal camp pain donations. he also served two years in federal prison, and then in 2020 trump pardoned kushner for those crimes, so this election really following in this pattern, this history of president-elect trump choosing those most loyal, choosing family members to serve in his administration. but no doubt that kushner's past and his history is going to be

an interesting topic that senators could bring up during those confirmation hearings that are expected to begin in january, alex. >> yeah, absolutely. and no mention of any of that in the latter part of the announcement, of course. what about the canadian prime minister who visited mar-a-lago last night? what we hearing from justin trudeau about his conversation with donald trump? >> reporter: yeah, alex, we're still awaiting a read out of this meeting between udeau and trump from the trump transition team. we did here from trudeau when he was briefly asked by reporters how this meeting went. listen to his comments here. >> prime minister, how was your meeting with the president-elect? >> it was an interesting conversation. >> reporter: and president-elect trump posting on truth social this afternoon and calling this meeting a productive one about energy, about tariffs, about

curbing the flow of drugs across the u.s., mexico, as well as u.s./canada borders. remember this is all coming as trudeau has been under growing pressure to get trump to stand down on that threat of a 25% tariff on goods from canada and mexico unless canada and mexico does something to curb the flow of migrants as well as drugs crossing from their borders and into the united states. trudeau has warned over the last few days that that would not just affect canadians economically but also americans. it seems for now at least there has been progress made at least as you heard from these two men. but as we see with so many things involving president-elect trump, it really goes until the first day of his term when he says these plans would take place whether those will actually be implemented, alex. >> yep, we've got about 7 weeks to wait and see. thanks so much, allie raffa for that.

as we turn to capitol hill where investigators are looking at the latest round of swatting calls targeting democratic lawmakers over his thanksgiving holiday. what have authorities uncovered about these serious threats and any consequences for anyone involved if they're caught? >> reporter: really serious consequences because these are serious crimes. they are punishable, of course, by law. and it could result in decades of prison time if not life in prison if these hoax callers, these swatters, these folks accused of placing these calls that resulted in things like swatting incidents, which of course results when a fake phone call is placed, and then a lot of cops, law enforcement presence, s.w.a.t. teams even sometimes show up to the home, the private homes of lawmakers, of some personnel that president-elect trump had picked to be in his cabinet as well. you mentioned the democratic lawmaker most recently we heard from a rhode island congressman who posted on "x" saying he was

recently notified of a bomb threat targeting me and my family at our home. we are safe and there is no evidence of a bomb on the property. alex, this is what we saw with all these other calls as well. no actual evidence of a bomb. he continues we would like to extend our deepest gratitude to the police department for their effective response. i should note this affected democrats and republicans. we know of at least ten members of congress or even senators ineincluding sheldon white house of rhode island who received these threats. we also know of several lawmakers from new york, former lawmaker lee zeldin who trump announced to be in his cabinet and elise stefanik a congressman from new york who was alerted of a bomb threat at her home. certainly a scary incident we've been seeing a rise in political violence, political rhetoric that turns to violence in repeat years here. and this is something that law enforcement personnel on the ground, fbi federally, and also law enforcement here in the

capitol are taking very seriously. i obtained a security notice cept by senate security officers to senate staff to chiefs of staff as well alerting them of these possible incidents and to make sure that they stay coordinated with their law enforcement locally as well, alex. >> okay, thank you so much for all of that. very comprehensive reporting, julie. meantime, we have breaking news to share from the middle east as hamas today is releasing a new video. this one here it's of israeli american eden alexander who's been held hostage in gaza since october last year. in the footage he calls for president-elect trump to negotiate for his release. it comes on day 4 of the tenuous cease-fire deal between hezbollah and israel and lebanon that appears to be holding and a syrian anti-government rebels take control today of most of the country's second largest city of aleppo. joining me now from jerusalem is nbc's hala gorani. first, what more can you tell us about this hostage video and then the latest on this

cease-fire between israel and hezbollah? >> reporter: indeed, very significant news out of the middle east today. first that video hamas released the video. today you showed a portion of it. our policy is not to show anything beyond the -- because obviously these are filmed under duress -- beyond what the hostage says is his name, in this case adan alexander. he called on president trump to help release him for a deal. his mother and grandmother showed up to the square, where families have been gathering since last year. he also called on the prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, to strike a deal to get the hostages out. we understand from the mother of edan alexander to prime minister called her promising he would get her son out of the gaza strip. of course the hostage families, as many of our viewers know, have expressed a lot of

frustration with the prime minister benjamin netanyahu over the last year plus since october 7th, saying he certainly has not done enough, according to them, to get the hostages out. as far as the cease-fire between israel and hezbollah, despite a few skirmishes right now, it appears to be largely holding, alex. >> let me ask you also, hala, about the insurgent tagover in aleppo. who do these forces represent, and what could it mean for the regime of president bashar al assad? >> reporter: so this is an extremely difficult development and one that has surprised even the most avid syria watchers. they were based in the north western part of syria. some of the rebel factions have support from turkey. essentially what they did is in a matter of days they took the second largest city in syria, aleppo. this is in the north, and the

regime forces appear to have just completely vaporized, and this really is the result of a domino effect really that started on october 7th because hezbollah is now weakened. iran is having trouble resupplying its allies in syria, the regime of bashar al assad. and russia, which is a big supporter of the regime, is preoccupied in ukraine. the rebels saw an opportunity, they took aleppo. they promised to go further south to damascus, but this is a very, very significant development in the middle east with a realignment of the power -- the power balance, if you will, in an important country because syria is kind of -- has been the playground for all of these factions, countries including the united states and israel, which have bombed positions inside of syria of militant -- of militant bases inside of syria. so a lot going on, and we're keeping a close eye on it for you guys.

>> there's a lot to watch and i appreciate that because they're important stories both of them. thanks, hala. coming up next we're going to take you to the one spot in the country that could see 6 feet of snow this weekend. we're back in 90 seconds. ekend. we're back in 90 seconds ♪♪ it's nice to know you're free to focus on what matters, with reliable medicare coverage from unitedhealthcare. why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

a megawinter storm is complicating the rush to get home after thanksgiving. thousands of flights have been delayed so far, but some good news this hour.

the power is back on at philadelphia international airport after an earlier outage. some flights, though, were impacted. we have reporters braving the crowds and the cold today. we're going to begin with nbc's george solis, who's at the home of the buffalo bills to learn the plan ahead of tomorrow's game. george? >> reporter: welcome to buffalo. we're inside highmark stadium right now and we're starting to see the impacts of the lake effect snow. it's coming down at a good clip, maybe 2 to 3 inches an hour. when we first got here this morning you can still see some of the green of the grass here. you can see now completely covered by the snow, and it's only going to intensify throughout the day today and into tomorrow. the bills themselves asking the legendary bills mafia to help them dig out here because they expect these stands, these seats here to be covered in snow. and so, of course, many of fans already with shovels in hand. we actually saw some already getting ready for the tailgate for tomorrow's big game against the 49ers. so they are certainly going to

help this stadium clear out for the game. now, we were actually in some of the south towns here where this lake effect snow has really taken ahold. and we're starting to see some good accumulations there. those are the ski towns, we're told, and they want that snow. what they're really concerned about as this snow moves here into orchard park and even closer into downtown buffalo, how the town can respond to some of this snow. remind you this is the first big snowfall of the season, and so far we know talking to the director of public works and the commissioner here, they are working diligently. it is all hands on deck right now to clear out some of this snow, to make sure the roads are clear for the big game and for people to get around. good news for them, they don't expect this to be an event that's going to completely shutdown the city as a blizzard event. nevertheless, as you see it just keeps coming down more and more. and the expectation so far is for that big game on sunday night football to kick off

between the buffalo bills and the san francisco 49ers. interesting enough north of here, just north of orchard park in the town of amherst, still no snow out there. you can see big snow bands and they might see a couple of inches, maybe a dusting or two. but, again, this really is the story here. you can see if we can look over here at the end of the other goal posts, some of the visibility starting to deteriorate. again, that's only going to continue as this snowfall intensifies here. again, all told, it's looking the crews have a good handle on this. the game expecting to kick off tomorrow. and again, you can expect the fans to help this stadium dig out. and we'll be here monitoring the conditions as conditions continue to unfold. back to you. >> all right, george, thank you for that. we're going to go from there now to nbc's maggie vespa who's at chicago's o'hare airport. i know you've been tracking the delays and cancellations today. so how's it going? >> reporter: well, alex, it's getting worse as it tends to do.

we've been tracking through flight aware. let's pull those numbers up. they just deteriorated a bit to use george's word. so far today 2,400 delays is that bottom row that you're seeing, and 58 cancellations. but compare that to the overall totals for yesterday. we have 4,000 delays yesterday by the end of the day, but we've already blown past yesterday's overall cancellation totals. that doesn't bode well as, again, that snowstorm continues to worsen out east. we're several states away. we're in chicago. people here, though, very cognizant of the fact they're part of a record setting travel crowd. tsa said around 80 million americans were traveling for thanksgiving, the majority driving. but still record numbers here at the airports as well, and weather can play a big factor snarling flights later on and in the day. i met one couple earlier trying to get home to seattle. they came to the airport this morning and were shocked at the crowds they saw. check this out. >> i mean i should have thought,

like, it's thanksgiving maybe people are going to be here. i didn't think about it, though. >> thing is we were trying to beat the people here if anything so we can get through earlier. yeah, time's not on our side. >> reporter: if we can pull up the misery map which airports hit the hardest. even though we're talking about snow out east, that can ripple west easily. check out chicago o'hare, number one so far today for delays and cancellations. it's always good to be number one except in this scenario. alex, i'll tell you the guy in that interview, by the way, told me he said this is actually his first time flying. he flew here from seattle on thanksgiving, first time ever on a plane and he said since doing that he's gotten pummelled in the face by snow and now he's braving record crowds. jury's still out how he feels. >> i hope he gets another try. there's a big world to explore, but who knows. all right, maggie, thank you for

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as many democrats struggle with how to deal with a second trump term, some progressives are going with a new strategy. according to politico, more liberal dems plan to take the

president-elect's, quote, populous working class proposals at his word or at least pretend to. that way if he puts his mun where his mouth is, they'll take some credit for bringing it to him and bringing it to the table. he doesn't, they can bash him for it and call out trump's popular bluff. joining me now. good to see you both. hope you had a good thanksgiving. i'm going to begin with you here. i'm curious your take on this now progressive dem strategy being floated of holding trump's feet to the fire on some of these issues and what are the potential drawbacks? >> i think no matter who gets elected, the other party is always poised to hold their feet to the fire. that's kind of how it goes. but i do think the voting electorate shouted resoundingly they wanted to have a better

economy, they want their dollar to go further, they want to work and not have their electricity cut off, they want to have access to better health care. at the end of the donald trump, he doesn't have a mandate based on votes but he has a mandate based on policy. and a lot of policies americans want to see are progressive. he talked about the economy on the campaign trail day in and day out, he tried to elevate it. i think responses for that are rightly flying squarely at his lap and saying, hey, this is what people wanted. are you going to put your money where you mouth is, additionally to that if he shape shifts, they're ready to call him out on this. i think it's a smart play. >> this change in strategy comes after years of dems resisting trump, which of course ended with him just returning to the white house. does this approach honor the voting public's demand for change, but does it still hold

trump accountable? >> perhaps. if -- i think if their plan is to potentially work with donald trump, they're going to be waiting a long time to find anything. i don't imagine there's going to be a lot of bipartisan law making on trump's agenda. this feels like they're overthinking if a little bit. here's what's going to happen. donald trump is going to see himself as having a mandate and overreach. every president overreaches. every new congress overreaches, and it always ends up blowing up in their face. i think it's that simple. the politics don't need to be too complicated here. sure all of a sudden if donald trump becomes this progressive popialist in their mold, that's great for them. i don't think that's going to happen, and i don't think they need to get too complicated in calling him out if he doesn't. he's probably going to engage in a level of tariffs that could be really disruptive to the economy and raise prices. he's probably going to overreach in his immigration enforcement, which if done correctly could be popular, but he doesn't

understand how to do things correctly. simple overreach, that's what history shows happens time and time again no matter who's in charge. >> democrats argue as trump's lead in the popular vote shrinks, it challenges his claim that the american people have given him a mandate. do most americans really endorse his plans to overhaul government and implement sweeping change? >> so i think that in the narrative democrats are splitting hairs here. i don't think the average american cares how much of the popular vote he won. they just constitute it as he won the popular vote and they let the rest go. donald trump is seeing the presidency, the house, and the senate as a mandate because republicans are in control of all of them. he's also seeing state ledgish lachers across the country, the majority of those controlled by republicans as well. does this mean sweeping change will happen? i agree with what we heard from brendon a few moments ago. i think trump is going to issue a lot of things in overreach particularly in immigration but several things as well that will

shoot-up the costs for every day americans in addition for overreach in the states. we're going to see cases come up. we're going to see democrats fight many legal battles on a front i think is the last they have in this case because of republican leadership. we're going to see a lot of this infighting in the courts. and donald trump is going to be true to himself. he's somebody who likes to -- he's somebody who likes to push things too far. we've seen this time and time again, and i don't think this is going to change with this cycle either. he just now has at least in the interim, this election we just got over a few weeks ago. we're going to see him posturing doing really big things really fast. and that comes a lot of change swiftly, and i don't know the american public is going to stand back and stand by and get excited about those changes especially if they feel them with their wallet first. >> brendon, elon musk, are we getting a clear sense what his role will be in the incoming administration? or is it just getting cloudier

because he seems to have a say or at least participating in a lot more than just the new department of government efficiency as he was originally slated for. >> yeah, you know, look, as it relates to the department of government efficiency as they're calling it, i appreciate the spirit of what they're doing. i think there's a lot of people who think that government's too big and we should find ways to root out waste and that's great. it's not that simple, though. the problem here with elon musk he's an obvious novice to all of this. it's very clear he's looking at a lot of these issues for the very first time, perhaps in the last few weeks. and now the president is empowering him with a lot of things. i think it's easy to look at this and sort of laugh it off. he named it after an internet meme. he himself doesn't seem to be taking it seriously. i don't think we should laugh off whatever role elon musk has this year. i think he seems at the moment very passionately dug into this,

and we should watch closely what he does whether that relates to conflicts of interest he may have or simply bad ideas because he doesn't understand the policies he's playing in. but it sounds like there's a congress or house at least very interested in being a partner with this. so could take a lot more -- could become a much more significant -- much more significant role for him and congress than perhaps a lot of people appreciated. >> yeah, and i think we're going to add to how long he stays in it, we'll see about that, too. as we stick with musk, rather, during a midweek post on his "x" platform he accused trump impeachment witness alexander vindman of treason and suggested, quote, he will pay the appropriate peniment. it seems like there is no reach to his -- no limit to his reach in the trump universe right now. how dangerous a problem can this present, giving him sort of an unbridled sense of power at this point? >> very dangerous. this is a guy who -- the

wealthiest man in the world who also now extends that to power. wealth does include a significant amount of power. he's sitting in the hands of donald trump when we're talking about some of the meetings he's having at mar-a-lago. this is a guy up in the middle of the night doxing people who happen to be career civil servants. this is guy on his own retribution tour. i think it matters because elon musk just got a whole lot more powerful. and he -- he and trump i think they're going to clash at some point because too extremely powerful people typically don't get along that well for that long. and trump doesn't like to at least have himself look like he's being puppeteered, which i think elon is trying to do in some instances. at this point we're watching elon musk put targets on the backs of people he does not like. when he was testifying he didn't like him either and tweeted out a bunch of things. at this case when he thinks all the cases against trump have

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president biden is touting the efforts of small business owners today, posting this small business saturday we're celebrating all small businesses including the 20 million new

business applications, 20 million acts of hope since i took office. and just minutes ago vice president harris did some small business shopping of her own after visiting a bookstore in washington. you see it there. a record 183 million people are expected to shop in stores and online from thanksgiving day through cyber monday. some are showing up in person for more than just great deals. >> we have been coming here for the last three years the water park and the decoration and the whole shopping experience is great. >> it's great to see the sales and the holiday spirit and see all the degerations and what the stores have to offer. >> a lot of shopping is done online so being out with people and this being one of the largest malls in america, it definitely gives a nostalgic experience. >> nbc's maya england has been speaking to small business owners, and maya joins me right now. so the small business owners,

what are they expecting for today? we see a lot of people out in the malls, so do they think this is going to be good for their cash registers? >> i think most small business owners are cautiously optimistic. in 2023 americans spent $17 billion on small businesses, and with today being small business saturday, the u.s. chamber of commerce says 50% of shoppers plan to prioritize small business saturday over black friday and cyber monday with 30% of gen z adults expressing a high likelihood of participating in small business saturday. in terms of revenue the u.s. chamber of commerce says despite 83% of consumers saying they'll be spending less, 8 they'll be increasing their shopping compared to last year. important to consider for our local shopping lists. >> there's a bit of a generation gap here. do you even know what a cash

register is in. >> i do. >> anyways, let me ask you the question when it comes to the reasons these small business owners offer for why it's important for shoppers to support them. what do they tell you? >> so i spoke with the owners of two toy stores, the march hare then east village of new york and the haymark in long beach, and they told me they've had to rely on other streams of revenue like merchandise to keep their businesses afloat and sometimes even dipping into their own savings. the people in the neighborhood are we're going to listen to susan hay who's been a toy storeowner for 50 years. here's what she told me. why do you think it's important to support small businesses? >> just to keep the local community going. it's really difficult in today's day to work against the big box stores. so the fact you're coming into a little mom and pop store, you're supporting their families, in turn they support the community.

>> alex, when folks are looking for places to shop, keep an eye out for the stickers and labels that say locally owned or family owned businesses. when you're using search engines like yelp or google maps. >> okay, very good idea. thanks so much, maya, for all of that. the message donald trump's cabinet picks are sending to the me too movement next. ing to the me too movement next so you start to wonder. if i put a sheet of bounce on the finance guy, will it make him softer? bounce can't do it all but for better laundry, ♪ put a sheet on it with bounce. ♪ (man) mm, hey, honey. bounce can't do it all but for better laundry, looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm.

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a new op-ed by michigan's attorney general warns of the threat to victims of sexual assault posed by president-elect trump's cabinet. president-elect trump has chosen multiple people facing sexual misconduct allegations for key administration posts, down-playing the accusations, which all of them deny. his pick for defense secretary, pete hegseth, stands accused of sexually assaulting a woman in 2017. he acknowledges paying her to sign a nondisclosure agreement. the op-ed argues these nominees show, quote, disdains for victims and sends a message to both survivors and law enforcement that sexual assault should not be taken seriously. joining me is the writer of that piece, dana welker who we welcome to the show. you write with these nominations we are telling survivors of sexual assault they don't matter, that their trauma is meaningless and that they should stay silent. so let's have you elaborate a bit on that, and does it start with merely being chosen these

picks that begins that messaging? >> well, we already have a situation where 2 out of 3 survivors of sexual assault don't feel comfortable reporting these crimes to law enforcement. and when you pick, you know, nominee after nominee that has some sort of scandalous behavior in their background, where they've been credibly accused of either committing sexual assaults or aiding or abetting in it in some way, it sends such a negative message to these survivors that if they come forward, they're not going to be believed especially when you have people who are in charge of these enormous bureaucratic agencies like the military, who's traditionally had a problem handling sexual assault cases against women who serve. so this message i think sets us back not years but many decades. >> how about general law enforcement and its pursuit of

sexual assault cases, how does it affect that? >> yeah, i mean, the whole point is you have to have law enforcement officials who start out believing people when they come forward with these accusations and investigate these cases properly. but when you have people who are in these very high positions of power, who can get nominated, and who knows maybe even confirmed, irrespective of their conduct when it comes to these kinds of activities, i think it tells law enforcement that these crimes are really not as devastating as we know they are, and it also sends a message to -- to judges, to jurors, and to really the public at large that we're not taking these kinds of cases seriously, and people who commit these offenses really haven't done anything that bad. and nothing could be further from the truth. >> so whenever president-elect trump says that he plans to declare a national emergency now to secure the necessary

resources to deport millions of undocumented immigrants. but experts say that's going to pose enormous financial and logistical challenges. so how might the diversion of funds to deport people impact our state and federal partnerships in human trafficking and cold case sexual assaults? >> yeah, well, i would say we are really worried about this in our department. we have all kinds of partnerships that involve local, state, and federal authorities. and specifically we work with homeland security. we work with the fbi. we work with u.s. marshals, and we've sort of already been told by some of those entities our ongoing projects where we work to apprehend serial killers and cold case homicides and human trafficking cases, that they don't know they're going to be available to work with us on those kinds of cases in the future because they're going to be so busy diverting their

finite resources to try to apprehend individuals who may be in the country illegally. and, you know, irrespective of what your opinion is about ensuring that you're detaining undocumented people, the concern is a lot of those people while they might be here illegally, and that in and of itself is a crime, it's a federal misdemeanor, but when you decide to use those resources to capture those individuals as opposed to rapists and serial killers and traffickers, that we're making our communities a whole lot less safe by doing that. >> wow. i mean by that explanation you're going to be focusing on this quite the intently. dana nessel, thank you so much. we appreciate your time with us. meantime, donald trump's legal team gets creative, really creative. that story next. ally creative that story next. hey! try new robitussin soft chews.

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♪ you gotta give the people ♪ ♪ you gotta give the people ♪ ♪ you gotta give the people ♪ ♪ what they want ♪ wait till you see this. donald trump's legal team is employing a new strategy in hopes of making the new york city fraud case disappear once and for all. in a letter penned to attorney general letitia james, a trump lawyer said james has an opportunity to help cure oppositions by abandoning the lawsuit that she's already won. joining me now is steven bannon, nbc political contributor and producer for the rachel maddow show. steeb, it's good to have you back on the show.

and we look at your new article for msnbc.com in which you called this move a weak new pitch and wondered if the lawyer behind the letter was able to type it with a straight face. did trump's team have to go on record for appearance sake? did they know it's not going to go anywhere? >> it's a good question. donald trump is leaning on his attorney saying what can you do to make this case go ahead. i think your viewers understand there's four cases, this is another case in which his business was charged with systemic fraud over the course of many years. he's already lost that case. the judge has already imposed hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties on the trump organization as a result of this systemic fraud. now we have this post election environment where lawyers going through the motion appealing to letitia james saying for the good of the country you can look the other way that my client engaged in all this fraud. to your question why did he do

this, i think in all likelihood the president-elect is saying i've already made some progress on other legal fronts, perhaps you could make this go away for me, too. >> to that end it comes from team trump and comes just days after an appeals court agreed to dismiss the charges related to donald trump's mishandling of classified documents. when you couple this decision with the dismissal of the federal election interference case, does it close the book on special counsel jack smith's prosecution of trump, at least for those two cases? >> it does. i think in all likelihood the minute donald trump won that second term, jack smith and the special counsel's office looked at the realization they simply didn't proceed, not because they didn't want to but because the justice department has a long-standing policy a sitting president cannot be prosecuted under federal law. with that in mind, regardless of the merits, rarlts of the evidence, regardless of the fact they had a good chance of winning the cases, jack smith and his team realized they have

to pack it up and move on. having said that, there are still other areas of legal interest in georgia and the civil fraud case we just talked about. for those interested in seeing donald trump held accountable the demise of the jack smith case is one thing, but there are other cases we also need to keep a look at. >> let me challenge that with one thing. our colleague says smith's decision to drop the january 6th case could be an effort to keep the case alive. any sentiment you agree would there? >> there's an element to be sure. the thing to keep in mind here is once donald trump's term is over assuming we're looking at an environment four years from now in which donald trump is prepared to leave the white house, and he's at that point a private citizen, and yes, barbara mcquade is absolutely right there's no reason in the world they couldn't pick up that case and run with it and continue to hold donald trump accountable because the case

would still be legally viable at that point. that's true. >> okay, one more. i'm curious what this all means for the georgia election interference case. has fulton county d.a. fani willis indicated at all she could drop those charges? >> the short answer is no. right now we're looking at an environment there's kind of a holding pattern. there's supposed to be a pretrial hearing this week. fani willis has canceled for reasons unknown. the case is very much alive. so there's still a possibility that case will proceed although we know in all likelihood the likelihood of having a sitting president sit in georgia for a criminal count is unlikely, but that case will continue. next to that remind your viewers there's a whole bunch of codefendants in that case who