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kash patel to service the next fbi director. plus, trump's feud with the press escalates as he threatens to replace more traditional media with favorable influencers. trump in cabinet quickly fills up, one state continues to dominate his picks, that would be florida. i'm sam stein in for ayman mohyeldin. let's do it. let's start tonight with the breaking news that donald trump announced he would take kash patel, former chief of staff to the acting secretary of defense during his first administration, to services fbi director. nbc news correspondent von hilliard joins us by phone. thank you so much. after abruptly firing james comey as fbi director in 2017, trump chris wray to replace him. chris wray was an establishment type figure. a chris christie guy. tonight trump has apparently

announced his intention to fire chris wray, even though chris wray's term is not done until january 20th. what do you make of what is happening here? >> right, this is a saturday night announcement, i think that is an understatement. you are looking at chris wray, who was donald trump's own selection back in 2017, serves that 10 year term. we reported just earlier this month that chris wray was anticipating either being forced out through firing or resigning with the expectation that he would be fired by donald trump upon him taking office this january. and now, tonight, even before donald trump has publicly indicated whether he will fire chris wray or not, you can say preemptively made the announcement that he intends to install kash patel as the fbi director. let's be very clear. this is a staggering announcement, because of the political nature in which kash patel has aligned himself with donald trump over the years. he has pledged to go after the

individuals who he says form up the deep state inside the fbi, the cia, the intelligence community, the department of justice, and donald trump first floated having kash patel serve as fbi director or within the cia at a top-level capacity at the end of his first term in 2020, at the time, it was gina haskel who is the cia director who said that she would resign if kash patel was installed as her deputy. and it was bill barr, the attorney general the time, who also spoke out and was very explicit in his memoir in the aftermath of meeting the administration, he said kash patel had virtually no experience that would qualify him to serve at the highest level of the world's preeminent law-enforcement agency. just one year ago on stephen's podcast, he was very explicit in not only going after prosecutors and other officials in the doj says unfairly targeted donald trump, but

again, this was from kash patel very directly. quote, we will go out and find the conspirators. not just in the government, but in the media. yes, we are going to come after the people in the media who lied about american citizens, who helped joe biden rig presidential elections. kash patel has been very explicit that he intends to use the fbi as an investigatory tool to go after those who are perceived enemies of donald trump. and of course, he will have to be sent to confirm, but if he is confirmed, this is about as close to a loyalist that donald trump could possibly find and install in the capacity of director of the fbi. >> and i guess the question we are all sort of trying to figure out is to what degree will senate republicans stomach this? this is a confirmable position. there's going to be 53 republican senators that can stand to loose three. if you have people like bill barr saying no, this man is not qualified, that was in the past, obviously, but it does not take long to dredge up that quote. i imagine you are going to have

other people in law enforcement, officials saying this is a terrible road to go down. do you imagine that there is enough backbone amongst the republicans, or other the already saying look for we have to look down matt gaetz, you want us to vote down pete hegseth, you want us to vote down tulsa gabbard, how many more can we vote down? >> right, i think that this is going to be an extension of the matt gaetz test case. and matt gaetz, who had effectively been given education of people like mitch mcconnell and lisa murkowski, susan collins, were not going to vote to confirm him. i think that is really the next step. if matt gaetz was a startling pick for anti-or moderate or reticent republicans to donald trump, then i think kash patel would be an extension of that. this is donald trump doing exactly what he said he would do on the campaign trail, and that was to use these agencies and these departments to go, and in his view, right the wrongs of the last four years

and in fulton county. it is tough to see that some of these republican senators like lisa murkowski and susan collins signing on to cash patel, but it is a question of, pete hegseth is still an open- ended question for the pentagon chief, so this is going to be really a battle and a test to see how much of a resistance some of these republicans and the u.s. senate that are reticent to donald trump's loyalists coming in with the very overt intent to be institutionalized, to stop law enforcement agencies and what extent they are willing to stand up to him. i think it's a real test of what we can expect over the next four years in terms of the relationship between senate republicans and donald trump. >> yeah, we are in uncharted

territories here. thank you so much, really appreciate it. tonight donald trump called his next pick for the director of the fbi, kash patel, a quote brilliant lawyer, investigator, and an america first fighter. but patel's record tells a different story. last year patel pledged to quote go out and find the conspirators, not just in government, but in the media, accusing them of helping joe biden rig the presidential election. he has a record of pushing trump my in conspiracy theories, and even promoted an anti-vaccine diet supplement, claiming they could reverse the effects of covid-19 vaccines. patel has little experience for the role, and a pattern of exaggerating his qualifications. he wants claims to be the lead prosecutor in a federal case against a libyan tied to the 2012 then ghazi attack, but the justice department records don't list him as the leader, or even as part of the team.

in a 2016 case involving a palestinian refugee who pleaded guilty to supporting isis, a federal judge removed patel from the courtroom. the judge called his presence unnecessary and criticized him for his lack of professionalism and inappropriate attire. when trump entertained naming patel as deputy director of the fbi during his last presidency, former ag bill barr, as von just noted, said, quote, over my dead body. now, adding to this growing list of controversial picks, this is the man trump wants to run the fbi. let's bring in my panel. man-o-war hayes brown, writer and editor at msnbc daily, and april ryan, white house correspondent at thegrio and an msnbc contributor. hayes, the news provides stuff to talk about. in a quote

shocking attachment from reality. and here we are again. what is going on here? >> kash patel shows the one thing donald trump cares about, which is loyalty. he has been by trump's side, thick and thin, since before he was part of the administration. in 2017 he was on the house intelligence committee staff, looking into claims of russia investigation being a deep state lot. that went nowhere. he got moved over to the national security council in the white house, where he was part of the plot to basically blackmail ukraine. trump was at one point convinced he was running ukraine policy, even though he wasn't. he got shuffled over to the director of national intelligence. got shuffled over to the pentagon. and since leaving the administration, he has been a loyalist at a pro trump think tank. kash patel as fbi

director would be like if you crossed alex jones with j edgar hoover, in terms of how much he would want to ignore precedent and the constraints of input on the fbi over the years. with all the conspiracy theorizing, all of the eagerness to fan the flames of the worst instincts of president trump put into power he is a couple of votes away from that happening once he gets to the senate. >> yeah, four senate republicans. april, the thing that is overarching here is january 6th. the attempt, and at this point, somewhat successful attempts to rewrite that day. kash patel was involved in the planning and around that day. but mostly he has talked about retribution. for what happened. and retribution for the people who were arrested on that day. how do you imagine that this all plays out in a subsequent confirmation hearing?

won't the republicans who fled for their lives on that day want to avoid the discussion? or are we at a point where trump has successfully recast january 6th so it is not a big problem for the senate republicans anymore? >> for all americans, we saw it on television. it was not a bunch of people going for a tour of the capital. it was not a picnic where they were skipping along holding hands. they were peeing on statues, defecating on things, and doing things that caused harm or potentially could have hurt one of the lawmakers there. so sam, in the midst of this you have a man who is now nominated to head to the federal bureau of investigation, that is supposed to uphold the constitution, the mission is to protect the american people and uphold the constitution, and protect the

american people against crimes that are against u.s. laws. what is all of this fit in with january 6th? january 6th is the juxtaposition of the constitution. many think it was treasonous. and for him to be one of the conspirators, this is now left to the court of public opinion. because you are going to have a lot of senators, republican senators, who are loyal to president-elect donald trump. and they will close and i, turn ahead, and there might be others who say things, but the issue is the american public is going to be the one that has to speak. and we saw what happened with matt gaetz. the court of public opinion pushed matt gaetz to say look, i don't want to be a distraction. the question is will this be along that same line? making kash patel a distraction for donald trump?

>> hayes, what you make of that? matt gaetz didn't even make it as confirmation hearings. made it seven days, i think. too many skeletons in the closet. is there a sense that kash patel as the relationships with republican senators to avoid that same fate? >> i mean, i doubt it. i don't believe he has ever been in the senate confirmed. he has never had to go through that process. trump kind of just shuffling around in the various placements where that was not necessary. so he has never had to go through the grind of publicly defending his past statements, of which there have been many. like the opera file on kash patel has to be as long as the files he wants to put together as fbi director on all of us here in the press. the number of things he has said that should disqualify him as being in outlook service at all, let alone as head of the federal bureau of investigations, is too numerous to list. the question then becomes matt gaetz, let's go back to him. he had enough of a toxic relationship with other republicans on the hill that he

was a detriment. it is unclear whether kash patel, whose name is not a household name, will get that same level of pushback. as matt gaetz saw when he was the one named attorney general. >> yeah, i guess we will find out. hayes and april, you guys are both sticking around. thank you very much. coming up, is joe rogan about a getty white house press pass? everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. and you have this dream every night? yeah, every night! hmm... i see. (limu squawks) only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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let me set the record straight. without daily hiv pills. are people born wicked? or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? oh! -ah! [ laughter ] no need to respond. that was rhetorical.

hm, hmm. hours ago trump picked kash patel as is fbi director, another trump loyalist who is no friend of the press. after serving a full term in the white house, donald trump still seems to believe being president grants an exclusive entry into a protected class. when that is shielded from scrutiny from the press corps. he is learning that is much as he pushes and threatens, is just not how journalism is supposed to work in a democracy. this week the new york times ran a piece about natalie hart,

a former right-wing cable anchor . she was nicknamed the human printer on the trump re- election campaign, maybe because she literally lugged around the portable printer that was used to supply trump with a paper stream of good news. she also seems to adore her boss. in a letter seen by the new york times and confirmed by sources close to both parties, she wrote, quote, i don't ever want to let you down. she may also be the only woman in history to refer to him as her quote guardian and protector. soon after the story was published, trump ranted about the new york times on true social. he wrote, quote, i don't believe i've had a legitimately good story in the new york times for years, and yet i won, and record fashion. the most consequential presidential election in decades. where's the apology? trump's response says it all. he did not to sound angry, he sounded entitled. and it could be a clear glimpse of what he will demand from the press the second time around.

after that outburst, donald trump jr. set on his podcast that trump is considering kicking traditional media out of the white house press briefing room and replacing them with friendlier faces from the podcast world. as the new york times pointed out earlier this month, trump's turned to the podcast world in his campaign allowed him to quote sidestep more confrontational interviews with professional journalists where he might face tough questions, fact checks, and detailed policy debates. the influencers he met with rarely challenged mr. trump, and often lavished him with praise. trump challenging the press is not anything new. during his last presidency his administration secretly obtain phone records and emails from journalists at the new york times, the washington post, and cnn. on the campaign trail this year he threatened to revoke broadcast licenses and throw journalists he did not like in jail. but this week's developments suggest donald trump has graduated to the next phase. elevating media figures who he

expects to be mouthpieces for his administration and shutting out journalists who publish consequential or even unflattering pieces about the president-elect and his loyalists. hayes and april are still with me, and joining us now, somehow, we let them through. max tony, media reporter at semaphore. april, let's start with you. in april 2010, trump told you, infamously, i would say, to sit down during a press conference after you asked a question about voter suppression. look, what did the moment reveal for you, not only about how trump views journalists, but also about the crucial topics that journalists investigate, like voter suppression, and how they will have to go about pushing this stuff in the next trump term. >> first of all, sam, you and i covered presidents for a while. and we know that watching the last trump presidency, it feels like so many people did not take civics. reporters are not there just

asking questions just ask them. we are the first line of questioning an american president. before the state. and when we ask questions, there is a give-and-take. a lot of times presidents don't like it, but they still find a way to give us the information, or maybe there is a bit of retaliation. with former president trump, now president- elect trump, he was very clear with his disdain with reporters. after i asked that question, he told me to sit down, a grown woman with children, has a standing in a community, he told me to sit down. he responded to me. and that's the reason why i stood up. and the next day he said he was going to revoke jim acosta's press credentials and he did, someone asked is there another person? he said yeah, that april ryan is a loser. i never got my credentials revoked, but what people have to understand, it's not personal. it's about policy. what we see. and i believe them when they

say they're going to bring in a new line of reporters, that they consider reporters. because that happened last time. i would not be surprised if joe rogan comes in. but typically, until helen thomas, we do not have commentators or columnists sitting in the room. so i would not be surprised. but the issue is, if you have journalists there, who are not asking serious questions, and just being there, the american suffers because you do not know what's going on. that's the bottom line. this is something the white house correspondents association is dealing with. they plan to shake up the seating anyway. they were looking at those who weren't coming in, as normal, et cetera. and i would like to see, i would love to be a fly on the wall to hear that conversation between the incoming trump team and the white house correspondent association. to see how they are working this out. because they are the advocacy

group for us to ask the questions of the president of the united states. >> now, max, i want to come to you on this one. because the other part of this equation is that journalistic institutions, mainly major newspapers and outlets, are kind of reassessing how they should go about covering trump. not necessarily saying we can't be doing critical coverage of him, but also, at the same time, wondering and asking themselves whether they had the right balance, whether they have the right voices, whether they should do endorsements. how do you feel like those conversations are progressing? what do you think will change in terms of the trump coverage in the next administration? >> yeah, i think that is a great question. it is something that i've heard is going on a lot of newsrooms, a lot of legacy media newsrooms. there is a lot of reflection about the fact that over the last nine years, there is been a tremendous amount of negative coverage and critical and fair coverage of trump that has revealed some very, very damning incidents, both things

that are out in public, and incidents behind the scenes. and yet, trump is more popular than ever. you see that in the polls, and you see that in his most recent victory. so i think there is a question with a lot of legacy newsrooms after trump in election victory in november, about whether there are a large group of people who are just simply not seeing these stories, that are very critical because of changes in the way that people consume media. or simply that they don't care. i think that is definitely something that a lot of news organizations are thinking about. i don't know if it's necessarily going to result in a tremendous amount of changes, but we have seen some moves along the margin. you have the l.a. times, hired a pro-trump commentator from cnn to be on its editorial staff. so there are some small changes. but of course, i think it remains to be seen whether there will be some broader

moves. >> and hayes, the other thing, i've talked about this with max prior to the segment. the thing that is ironic here, let's put it this way, is that trump obviously goes to war with the media, criticizes the media nonstop, threatens the media nonstop. he also loves the media. loves it. wants to be the number one story all the time. wants to be on tv. wants to be on the front page. the guy cuts out every time magazine cover that he's ever been on and posted on his wall. and that has always been this weird dichotomy, which is that yes, he is a clear and present threat to the press. but he also really worships the press. as you go about assessing this back-and-forth, how honestly, how fearful are you about press freedoms? i'm not saying it is illegitimate to be fearful of it. i'm just curious how serious you take his threats, or do you consider them part political act? >> i mean, i think that yes, there is that dichotomy between trump worshiping the media and

wanting coverage, and railing against the media and calling people fake news. but i think unfortunately, it all does speak to the same thing. trump likes attention, for sure. but given his tendencies, he wants all that they said to be good. whether they are true or not. he does not want a free and independent press. he wants propaganda. he wants people to tell him that he is the best leader ever, he wants people to tell him that there's nothing he can do wrong, that all of his ideas are the best ideas. he that he won by a larger margin than anyone in the history of the country, even though that's not true. he doesn't want a press that tells the truth, unless it is a truth that he sees as making him look good. so yes, he does enjoy having an enemy. someone to push back against. to point at the press at rallies and save those of the people who are telling made-up things about me and get the crowds to boo, so the crowd is on his side.

but he is completely willing to go around us, or come after us, i think, in the press. should we keep saying things that are true that he does not like. >> and max, just one more on the state of journalism as it is, because if they are indeed going to reimagined the press briefing room, look, i was there in the obama years when they were also going to reimagine the press briefing room, and call on people in the back row, and there was going to be online journalists and all that stuff. and in the end, there were changes. but fundamentally, tv still dominated. major print organizations still dominated. are we in a different place now, where in fact we have seen enough of a sort of institutional shift, where in fact podcasters, alt media figures, nontraditional reporters will, in fact, be prioritized? or are we a place where television still is king, where print media still is king? >> i think it is a really great

question. april said something earlier that i thought was important. which is that trump actually did try to do this last time. a great example of this was there was someone from the gateway pundit, which is a right-wing kind of online conspiracy outlet. they announced after trump's first win that they were going to have a white house correspondent who is going to be in the briefing room. and this person showed up, went to a few briefings, and did not ask me questions and eventually left because, essentially, it was boring and it wasn't necessarily something they were interested in, covering the ins and outs of policy and the day- to-day machinations of the federal government in the white house. so i think while trump's team might wonder joe rogan to be there, the question is whether rogan himself wants to be in the white house. my guess is that he probably doesn't. because he could just interview trump for three hours and that

is much more interesting than having to wait your turn or show up there every day, go to all the security, and maybe get one question. i think even if trump wants to remake the briefing room, i don't know if these youtubers or podcasters or twitch streamers want to be in there every day, asking questions about agriculture policy changes, or whatever the big news of the day is. >> yeah, april, they don't know. it's a lot of waiting around in that room. >> hurry up and wait. >> max, april, hayes, max, sorry you are not sticking around. coming up, is donald trump trying to make america more like florida? rida? ut the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people—whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur,

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donald trump is filling his incoming administration with allies from florida, which should come as no surprise. he just won the state by more than 10 percentage points, way up from his 3% win in 2020. and of course it is home to mar- a-lago. trump's pick for attorney general, pam bondi, and marco

rubio, are both notable figures in florida politics, in addition to being his allies. there is susie wiles, one of trump's top aides and a veteran in the political world. she is going to be his incoming chief of staff. just like trump, florida is confusing and full of contradictions. floridians have lived through two of the deadliest mass shootings in u.s. history, yet lawmakers keep loosening gun laws. it is a state that prides itself on being a place where people can live free from government interference, but it's leaders police women's bodies and decide what books kids can read. in spite of its hundreds of miles of suffering coastlines, talking about climate change is taboo. soon enough, this weird political culture could go mainstream in the white house. back to my panel now for that. hayes, look, just today we had canadian prime minister justin trudeau. he flew to florida to meet with trump over his tariffs. trump often takes major

meetings at mar-a-lago, may do so during his presidency, as well. florida is like the second white house, right? it's going to be the epicenter of the u.s. politics for the next four years. >> yeah, absolutely. it was weird when, in the first term, we were referring to mar- a-lago as the winter white house because trump would fly down there to escape d.c. in the winter months. but it is something that apparently we have to get used to again. trump is going to, trump does not like being, even though he likes being the president in the sense of being protected from lawsuits and from criminal trials, he does not like being physically in the white house a lot of the time. he wants to be on his golf courses, he wants to be at mar- a-lago. and having moved to florida, which has so very much in race 10 as his people, now, it makes sense that he is staffing up his administration with people who have been around him, who have had the most access to him, who have supported him as he has made that shift from a new yorker to a floridian.

>> right, and in many ways it is kind of the state as a reflection of trump. it is filled with people who have moved there as retirees, like himself, but those people often come from blue states and they go down to florida. they have embraced these culture wars that have really personified the desantis administration. and trump, too, has played a role in that. april, i'm wondering if you see it that way, if you see trump as a manifestation of florida politics, or is florida politics a manifestation of trump? >> you know, i think the two merge very well together. you know, donald trump is the reality show star who is now president, and he likes the entertainment of it, as well. think about this. florida went after mickey mouse. the state of florida went after mickey mouse over the lgbtq plus community. and that is something that trump wants to go against, as well. banned books, black books, talk of anti-woke, what they

consider. they were very maverick, like sarah palin said, in that. there are so many pieces to this puzzle for the state of florida that matches so well with donald trump. but florida is also a place, we can't forget what florida is. it is agriculture, it is tourism, it is economy, it is climate. it is so many different things that will be in the news of the next two, three, four years, even longer. florida is a very critical state, and i just want to give this piece, this back foot, as well. remember when george w. bush was president? he would go to the southwest white house, what they called it at the time, in texas. so, trump is not the first person to make another place or, in his mind, the white house in another location. >> right, hayes, so trump went for matt gaetz, also from the florida, for his first attorney general.

obviously did not work out. then he went with pam bondi. is this because he is familiar with these people? now residing in florida? obviously he has a connection with bondi. bondi worked on his impeachment trial. trump has donated to her while she was considering an investigation into trump university. is the similarity we are seeing? because i will note that another state that is staffing a lot of these potential government posts for trump, they are from new york. trump's's other state. i suggest that? is it just familiarity? >> it is familiarity mixed with how much you are going to do the thing i want you to do. and matt gaetz was, in trump my in mind, even though it was reportedly decided on a whim on a flight, that matt gaetz is the kind of person who would be the kind of attorney general who would do whatever trump says is the law. not worry about what is actually legal or not. in the same way, pam bondi has shown herself to be someone who

trump can rely on to do what is in her best interest. especially if that aligns with him. so, i think in trying to put pam bondi, i think, also, there is no one else really comes to mind who fits those two frameworks. someone who has been the ag of a state. who has held that role. who has been someone who is the chief law enforcement officer of a full state, even, in the executive branch of that state. it is also willing to listen to him and say you know what? yeah, we can make an exception here. we can find whatever loophole you need to in the law here to make sure that things go okay for you. >> yeah, it is an interesting combo. hayes in april, i'm not done with you two. stick around, we will's pig to again later this hour. but first, we are shifting gears to gaza, where palestinians are facing a new threat from harsh winter conditions. conditions.

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let's turn now to gaza, where palestinians who fled israeli bombings are facing the added threat of harsh winter conditions. here is nbc's hala gorani. >> reporter: they ran for the bombs, only for the sea to come for them. the storms rippling through the region, blowing away tense, soaking what few belongings the displaced of gaza have left. here in communist, tarps became

makeshift homes on the shifting sands of the beach. but the elements all but destroyed them. children here pick canned food from the sand, floating in trash filled water. the sea will kill us, says this woman. they live 17 to a tent here. with winter coming, the winds are stronger. plastic trash bags flapping in the wind, the air getting colder , nature, unforgiving. even towards the most vulnerable in its path. i have no clothes for her, they are all wet, says the mother, holding her five-month-old daughter. in a football field in gaza city turned camp for the displaced, dark clouds hanging over the tents. rain is in the forecast. and the residence trying to insulate their tents, doing what they can to keep the water out with old rolled up rugs.

a woman who lost her husband and son clean the coffee pot with the sand, with no sanitation or clean water. they say they are on the verge of freezing. temperatures here can dip into frost overnight. death would be better than this life, she says. as the bombs continue to fall. israel has damaged or destroyed two thirds of the structures and gaza, according to the u.n. so there are fewer and fewer shelters across the strip. that means that for many of the homeless and gaza, as winter approaches, there will be no place left to hide. back to you. >> thanks to nbc's hala gorani for that. we will be right back after this. craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after

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it's time now for our worst of the week. normally we like to pair two unfortunate candidates against each other, but this time it's really no contest. this week's dishonor goes to florida state senator randy find. the truck backed republican is currently running to fill a soon-to-be vacant seat in the house of representatives, but fine is already threatening two of his potential collies. he has targeted congresswomen rashida tlaib and ilhan omar, the only two muslim women of congress.

find posted on x, quote, the hebrew hammer is coming. rashida tlaib and ilhan omar might consider leaving before i get there. he ended his deranged post with the hashtag bombs away. my panel is back with me now. hayes, let's start with your reaction to this post. omar, they have been subjected to racist attacks since they were elected. trump infamously told them to go back where they came from. that was a quote. now a republican endorsed by the president-elect feels empowered to make this frankly violent post. what you make of this? >> i want him to, should he win this special election to fill the seat, should he actually become a congressman from florida, i want him to say that to the congresswomen's faces. i really have severe doubt that randy find would have the courage to try to say that to rashida tlaib or ilhan omar spaces.

and that lack of fortitude, that willingness to play big online and shrink down in person is really part and parcel with the maga brand. >> yeah, i don't know if i want him to say it to their faces, i will be honest, i hope he does not say at all. april, look, this is not the first time that fein has engaged in this type of rhetoric towards muslims and other marginalized communities. in 2021 he celebrated the bombing of the gaza strip on facebook with that same bombs away hashtag. last year he said he was fine with the racing, erasing, that is a quote, the lgbtq community under the guise of protecting children from them. i guess this is a pattern with this man. >> it is an unsafe pattern. you know, when you are someone who is a leader in the federal government, you have to have sober mind, sober thoughts, sober words. and when you are a leader who

is representing america, if you will, even though he is from florida, he is voting on things from all around the country. and even possibly the world. you represent everyone. to include those in the lgbtq plus community. to include muslims. to include people like the congresswoman he is talking about, and i do not want to see him jump in front of the congresswomen as women. one, he should never say those kinds of things to their faces, but i think that would create a hostile atmosphere that right now this nation does not need. his words are incendiary, and let's see if he does meet the mark to go to the house. >> well, something that's happening here, i want to get your take on, kind of this outraged industrial complex. you say something totally off- the-wall, incredibly outrageous, and look, we are talking about it. then he can fund raise off it, and he gets to be more of a

celebrity in his circles. i'm reminded of this past week, congresswoman nancy mace, who relentlessly attacked her soon- to-be colleague, sarah mcbride, who is the first openly trans person ever elected to congress. this was actually a pivot for mace, because in the past she had actually been pro trends in her rhetoric but is this what it takes to succeed as a maga republican? you have outraged people? >> absolutely. coming from the top . but it was not something that was invented by donald trump. this is been going on long since before he was on the scene. he helped bring it to the forefront. but when i was first started out in covering politics, you would see state legislatures like randy find saying the wildest things about muslims, about gay people, hoping to make the national press. so you are right, there is this industrial complex about it, where we are now discussing it, his name is becoming more public. but it helped break the country

down further that this is what they think it means to be someone who is an elected official, not a public servant. >> april, quickly, because we don't have too much time, but what you do as a journalist when you know the people are trying to get a rise out of you, and to do that, they go off and they threaten their potentially future colleagues? do you cover it? i think you kind of have to. but certainly you know in the back of your mind that they are trying to use you, right? >> yeah, you cover it, but you also have all voices in it. you don't give so much light and fire to that that is so incendiary. you try to give it light, enough so people can say i am aware of it. but also counter it with real news, and people talking about what it does, what it means, et cetera. we have to really figure out in this moment, polite society is gone, those who are hating

others are trying to make it mainstream. >> i agree with that. all right, hayes brown, april ryan, thank you both so much. really appreciate it. and thank you to the viewer for making time with us on this really crazy night. i appreciate that, too. i'm sam stein in for ayman mohyeldin, have a good night . when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... ...being me. keep being you... ...and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people—whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex.

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