ourselves, and we have the key to unlock them and be free of them. what is the lesson here for women who feel trapped, like you did? if you ignore the need to make a change until you become desperate, then you make the wrong kind of change. acknowledge you need to change something, and then move forward and do it in a healthy way. if i had had the insight and the strength to do that 15 years ago, i could have picked a much healthier way to change my life. [music playing] that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. [music playing] . good morning, and welcome back to this special day after thanksgiving edition of smoe.

we're on tape this morning, bringing the best segments of the last few weeks, including a hard look at how donald trump was able to win a second term in the white house. >> we want to get to the maureen dowd piece. we're going to do something a little different this morning because we're going to read the entire piece, but it's worth it. i think a lot of people have already been talking about this. we got a lot of calls about this piece, and it's an interesting message for democrats. maureen dowd's piece for the "new york times" entitled democrats and the case of mistaken identity politics. it really crystallized how some democrats are waking up and realizing that woke is broke, and maureen writes this. donald trump won a majority of white women and remarkable numbers of black and latino voters and young men. democratic insiders thought people would vote for kamala harris, even if they didn't like her, to get rid of trump.

but more people ended up voting for trump, even though many didn't like him because they liked the democratic party less. i've often talked about how my dad stayed up all night on the night harry truman was elected because he was so excited, and my brother stayed up all night the first time trump was elected because he was so excited, and i felt that democrats would never recover that kind of excitement until they could figure out why they had turned off so many working class voters over the decades and why they had developed such disdain toward their once loyal base. democratic candidates have often been avatars of elitism. michael dukakis, al gore, john kerry, hillary clinton, and second term barack obama. the party embraced a world view of hyperpolitical correctiveness, condescension and cancellation, and supported

diversity statements for job applicants and faculty lounge like latinx and black indigenous people of color. this alienated half of the country or more, and the chaos and anti-semitism at many college campuses certainly didn't help. when the woke police came at you, rahm emanuel told me, you don't even get your miranda rights read to you. there were a lot of democrats barking, people who don't represent anybody, he said, and the leadership of the party was intimidated. donald trump played to the irritation of many americans, disgusted at being regarded as insensitive for talking the way they had always talked. at rallies he referred to women as beautiful and pretended to admonish himself, saying he would get in trouble for using that word. >> those strong and i would say beautiful but i'm not allowed to

use that term anymore with women because if you say beautiful it means the end of your career in politics. you're not allowed to say a woman is beautiful, so i will not tell you how beautiful they are, but they are beautiful. but those strong, beautiful, intelligence women, they won. they won. >> continuing with maureen dowd, one thing that makes democrats great is that they unabashedly support groups that have suffered from inequality. but they have to begin avoiding extreme policies that alienate many americans who would otherwise be drawn to the party. democrats learned the hard way in this election that mothers care and this is a key line in this piece, that mothers care both about abortion rights and having their daughters compete fairly and safely on the playing field. keep that in mind.

>> and keep this in mind, a revealing chart that ran in the financial times showed that white progressives, and this is how it has been for too long, white progressives hold views far to the left of the minorities they champion. white progressives think at higher rates than hispanic and black americans that quote, racism is built into our society. and get this, many more black and hispanic americans surveyed compared with white progressives responded that, quote, america is the greatest country in the world. >> god smack ed democrats have reacted to the whiteout in different ways. touting trans rights and repudiating israel. others feel the opposite, calling on the party to, marie glusenkamp perez narrowly held her seat, owner of an auto shop

told the times that democratic condescension has to go. there's not one weird trick that's going to x the democratic party. it's going to take parents of young kids, people in rural communities, people in the trades running for office and being taken seriously. on cnn, the democratic strategist julie roginsky said democrats did not know how to talk to ordinary americans. >> we are not the message of common sense, which is the message voters sent to us for a number of reasons. when we address latina voters as latinx, for instance, because that's the politically correct thing to do, it makes them think we don't even live on the same planet as they do. when we are too afraid to say, hey, if you're trashing a campus

at columbia university pause you're unhappy about a policy and you're taking over a university and trashing it and preventing other students from learning, that that is unacceptable. we're so worried about alienating one or another cohort in our coalition that we don't know what to say when normal people look at that and say, wait a minute, i send my kids to college so they can learn, not so they can burn buildings and trash lawns, right. >> maureen dowd continues. kamala, a democrat lawmaker made the colossal mistake of running a billion dollar campaign with celebrities like beyonce, when many of the struggling working class voters couldn't afford a ticket to beyonce concert, much less a down payment on a home. i don't think the average person said kamala harris gets what i'm going through this democrat said. kamala, who sprinted to the left in her 2020 democratic primary campaign tried to move toward the center for this election, making sure to say she'd shooting an intruder with her

glock, but it sounded tinny. the trump campaign's most successful ad showed kamala favoring tax-funded gender surgery for prisoners. bill clinton warned in vain, that she should rebut it. james carville gave kamala credit for not leaning into her gender and ethnicity, but the party had become e , radiating the idea that identity is more important that humanity. we can never wash off the stench of it he said calling defund the police the three stupidest words in the english language. it's like when you get smoke on your clothes and you have to wash them again and again. now people are running away from it, like the devil runs away from holy water. what do you think?

>> i think we could talk about this for four hours. i'm looking at this. it's stuff we have talked about, the trans add, which of course we have talked about time and again. rick wilson came on and showed an opposing ad. 30,000 times on nfl they showed kamala harris saying that she would support the funding of transition surgery in prison and taxpayers would pay for it. and it of course was law at the time during the trump administration, but they refused. despite bill clinton and everybody else saying you have to respond to this ad, it's impacting black men, white working class men. willie said after the election, even his mother said, wait, this is weird, what's up with the democrats. and so they didn't respond to that. there's so many other things. we talked about it all last spring. i mean, maybe it makes you feel

good when you see people trash college campuses. i know it doesn't. maybe it makes progressives go, it's like the 60s all over again. most americans didn't like the trashing of college campuses in the '60s. that's why richard nixon got elected twice out of 49 states in 1972. trashing of college campuses. can't send your kids to campus safely. defunding the police. back in 2020, reverend al, you and i were talking about how representatives in the toughest parts of new york city in realtime were saying, defund the police. no, no, we need more police on the street protecting our children as we walk to school. we need more children in the classroom, you know, in the classrooms. more police officers, safety officers so our children can go to and from class, so our

businesses can be safe, so we can live a safe life, and it's something, again, you have a great line about wokeness and limousine liberals and everything. i just want to say, this is what we've known since 2017, what you and i have talked about, that white elitists that run the democratic party are far to the left of many black and hispanic voters in the democratic party, and i remember a pollster for barack obama. i think his name is david sachs, it came out and had that poll in 2017, and got absolutely hammered on twitter. absolutely hammered by the far left. how dare you say this, how dare you -- but he was right. and it was true in '17 and it was doubly true in 2024 that

these white progressives on the far far left said we're going to save you, black and hispanic people of america. a lot of black and hispanic people in america say, no thanks, you're kind of wild. you're too far left. we believe in the american dream. we want to be part of the american dream. thanks but no thank it is, keep that in your college classes, rev. >> absolutely. the whole goal of the civil rights movement and the movement now is to correct the system, not to overthrow the system and to make things work equally for everyone, not to just turn everything and change everything to some undefined utopia, and these latte liberals that speak for people that they don't speak to, that want to lead people that they don't even like are running around, trying to represent things that was never part of what we were saying.

all of us that want police reform, never said defund the police. we were trying to get police of color and other circumstances up in these departments to deal with stop and frisk and deal with other things, and then when you come and disregard and disrespect common people that are trying to get their kids in college and pay the tuition and student debt loan forgiveness and all, and you're going to disrupt the campus, it's very interesting to me that they were very selective in the causes they wanted to fight, and causes on the ground that every day people had to deal with, they were absent. i text you on that last week, which is why many people when they raised the problem came back to us, and the woke people, i don't know what they were woke from because we were never asleep. they were the ones up in the ivory tower taking a nap while we were dealing with people on the ground who have every day problems. >> yeah, it is something that i have been saying on the show for

a couple of years now that when i would have dinner with democrats, with democrats, we would all be sitting there having dinner, and i don't know if your experiences are the same, but about halfway in somebody would say, my daughter is at pick the school. my daughter is at university of virginia, she can't even raise her hand and speak in class because if she says the wrong thing, she's immediately canceled. the professors don't back her up. the administrators don't back her up. if you're at columbia, good luck. if you're at a lot of other elite institutions, good luck. i would say when i was at university of alabama 800 years ago, you say something conservative in class, and you still, even in that environment, sometimes you get pushback. but the professors and the administrators would say, no, no, no, we want to have a fair and open debate.

there are a lot of students and their parents, and again, i'm talking about democrats, who complained more and more about this over the past four, five, six, seven years. >> absolutely. i feel this very viscerally and strongly. as you know, i spent 20 years living in the united states since 2014, and i have been struck when i come over and meet my friends, many democrat friends and i didn't think that i had changed but found myself having increasing number of arguments on cultural issues. the whole elite moved to the left in a weird way. the whole issue, the trans issue, for example, the economists very loudly and clearly all along took a view that was anti-woke, if you will. we were skeptical about medical interventions, very skeptical about men on women's sports. from elite liberal types, what

was the economist doing, what was this, and what strikes me now is yes, people have realized that elites on the left were way different from where ordinary people are. as you say, lots of people saying what is happening in our schools and colleges, the question for me now is how does that change. everyone seems to have had a wake-up call. how does that change, and how do the kind of, you know, the elites of this party actually turn things around. it's not obvious to me that that's going to happen for us enough. i'm stuck even in the last few days, there are people on the cultural left, doubling down on the cultural left position. i don't know, it's your country, not my country. when you live in london, you come to the u.s. and think, what on earth is going on here. this place has culturally gone off the reservation on the left. >> and so isolated too. i said on the show really before we heard a whole lot. i'm sure the economist was writing about this.

we were very critical about a man who's a swimmer in the ivy league who transitioned and swam against women, and went from 386th best swimmer against men to the first against women. and i remember saying something about it at the time, and people going, how dare you say that, you're a radical extremist. actually, 85% of americans agree with me, and it's so fascinating, zanny, that all of these people who have been championing women all of these years sort of abandoned girls who had been waking up and their parents have been driving them to go swimming and running track and field from the time they were 5 years old at 5:00 in the morning. and suddenly they abandoned them, and won't say a word because they're afraid they're going to be canceled. it's insanity.

>> i think that fear of being canceled is what drove it. there's a sense amongst many many in the sort of liberal elite. i guess you're all part of it here. to be worried about saying anything, for fear of being ex-communicated, for fear of being canceled. people would go along with things they knew. latinx, what on earth is latinx. no latino person uses the word latinx, but people spouted this because they felt they had to, and their de and i industry told them they had to. and don't get me wrong, there are important, real civil rights issues that need to be dealt with in this country. i'm not in any sense saying there's nothing to be done, nothing that anyone needs that the u.s. is completely perfect. i think it's completely over the board. >> it did, and again, you look at surveys for white elitists

who write about white fragility, and talk about how horrible the united states of america is. you look at the surveys, and it shows that more black americans and hispanic americans believe in the american dream than those people spouting those extreme positions. yeah, we say every day, we have a long way to go to be a more perfect union. being an extremist and setting one party up to lose year after year, every four years, that's no way to do it. thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. still ahead, it's been 24 years since malcolm gladwell released his book "tipping point," which became a "new york times" best seller. that's next on "morning joe." ex. hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪

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♪ ♪ i have one, too. i'd be so lost without mine. we are talking about mentors, right? yes. a mentor can guide you. support you. and unlock your potential. being a mentor can be just as life-changing. you can create opportunities. and inspire the next generation. helping someone find their path can transform your own. so find a mentor. or become one. wait, can i do both? you know what? let me ask my mentor. of course, you can. bring someone along on your journey. and see where it takes you. nearly 25 years ago,

journalist malcolm gladwell, picked liz first book titled "the tipping point," how little things make a big difference. how ideas spread like viruses, first of his seven "new york times" best sellers. now he's revisiting the themes of the book, with the new book, "revenge of the tipping point" over stories, super spreaders and the rise of social engineering, and malcolm gladwell joins us now. thank you so much for being here. what made you decide to revisit this subject, and "the tipping point" was largely an optimistic look at the world. this one not so much. >> it's a little darker. i was -- we live in darker times. i wrote the first one at the end of the 1990s, crime was falling, the berlin wall had, you know, had gone away. i was in my mid 30s, the world seemed like a happy place,

cheerful. this time around i was originally going to do a light revise on this 25th anniversary and i realized i had so much more to say. my perspective on many of these issues had changed, and i wasn't full of the same kind of sunny optimism that i was when i first wrote the book. >> you know, malcolm, i don't mean to say you're a guy who's in love with epidemics, but there's a lot of epidemic stuff in this book. let's leave covid aside and go to opioids. >> yeah. >> do you think the american people are more susceptible to being swallowed by an epidemic like opioids than other cultures? >> it's funny. the opioid crisis, i begin and end this book with an account of the opioid crisis. the summation of the arguments is my kind of revised history of what happened. and i open with a very simple graph that shows opioid overdoses in all of the major western countries, and what you

see is the united states is up here. scotland is sort of close to us. then you go down a hole, you get to canada, and then there's a host of other countries, france, italy, portugal, that had no opioid crisis at all. one of the themes of the book is epidemics of ideas and behavior observe boundaries in a way viral epidemics do not. we need to be asking the question, looking at the countries that didn't have an opioid crisis and ask why. it's not because they're richer than us. we're not richer than them. they don't have lower rates of unemployment than us. in every way we're probably a more successful economy than they are. somehow they avoided the catastrophe this country has gone through for the last 15 years. >> you're a genius, what's the answer? why? >> there are many answers, but one is thing, purdue pharma, the

company that produced oxycontin was able to exploit some holes in the way that we regulate painkillers, in particular they were able to target a very small number of doctors. they realized a couple thousand doctors were all they needed to carry their epidemic forward, and they ruthlessly pursued, persuaded, exploited, manipulated those doctors, and that same dynamic doesn't hold in other countries in the west. >> the covid epidemic and the opioid epidemic, i can see why those things may make you feel darker than you did 25 years ago. is there more than that? we spend our whole time on the program saying there's so much going on in the world that's not particularly sunny at the moment, but is there something structurally in the world or in your relationship with the world that has made you less

optimistic? >> maybe it's because i'm older. i have kids now. once you have kids, you worry about things you didn't worry about before. i have a chapter in the book on a town, called poplar grove. it's a perfect, upper middle class suburb that's had this ongoing crisis in their school system over the last ten years or so. and it's a crisis caused by affluence, essentially, by the extraordinary expectations that wealthy, highly educated parents have placed on their kids, and that's a kind of -- that's a new kind of problem that's quite specific to america that is occurring in the most unlikely of places. if you visited poplar grove, as i did, this was the last place you would think is engulfed by this kind of -- i don't want to give away exactly what's happening there. so that's a kind of -- realizing that sometimes we have problems

because we have been successful in other areas, that's something that is new to my understanding. it was kind of central to this book. >> everything malcolm gladwell writes is a must read. his new book, "revenge of the tipping point" is on sale now. malcolm gladwell, thank you for joining us. >> thank you so much. still ahead, in his first interview since losing his reelection campaign in ohio, democratic senator sherrod brown talked to us about what went wrong and what democrats need to do moving forward. do moving forward. but i've always felt most comfortable up here, with the folks that made me who i am. i'm right at home, out here on the land. and i'm in my lane on the shoulder of the interstate. because this is where i come from. i've been showing up here for nearly 200 years. and i can't wait to see what's next. hats off to the future. nothing runs like a deere™

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giving. ♪ giving that's possible through the power of dell ai with intel. so those who receive can find the joy of giving back. let's bring in democratic senator sherrod brown of ohio, he lost his bid for another term earlier this month. senator, thanks for being with us this morning. it's been fascinating to listen to these after action reports, these autopsies about why democrats went wrong. your race, though, you have spent not just your campaign but your entire professional life focused on workers, the thing democrats say oh, we should have

focused more on working people across racial and gender lines. what is your assessment, not just of what happened in your race, where you ran well ahead of kamala harris, but of what the national party needs to be thinking about now. >> well, i wrote a book about the senate called "desk 88," a history of the senators who held my desk. i try to keep a historical perspective, and claire knows this well, the democrats since nafta. this wasn't a one year or four-year program, workers have drifted away from democrats. i grew up in mansfield, ohio, where the sons and daughters of steel workers and auto workers and electricians and mill wrights and carpenters, and bricklayers, and those jobs began to move south into non-union states. then they began to move overseas because presidents of both parties, frankly, betrayed those

workers with these trade agreements, and we've got to talk directly to workers. we've got to restore the tradition and the history of democrats being the party of workers. not just union workers. workers, whether you punch a clock or swipe a badge or work for tips or care for an ageing parent or raising children. we've got to be that party and focus on the work. we didn't do that over the last 30 years. and we paid this price where far too many workers left the democrats. as you said, i ran seven and a half points ahead of the national ticket. you can't do much better than that. but when we have the historic perspective of workers leaving our party, we've got a serious problem. >> so senator, yeah, you know, when i looked at the races even a year out, i said, well, sherrod brown is going to be fine in ohio. the guy is connected to ohio, better than anybody, and you're one of the democrats i was like, he's going to figure out a way to win, again, he has such a

connection with working class voters, and so when you lose, that sort of suggests that the democratic party is in deep, deep trouble across the midwest, the industrial midwest. i want to know, what did you hear from workers when you were campaigning who would have voted for you four years ago. who would have voted for you eight years ago, who voted for barack obama in 2012 and 2008. what did they tell you? why were they leaving the democratic party? what was sort of the not nafta, et cetera, which i totally agree with, what was the gut answer that they told you that made you kind of realize, man, we have lost working americans? >> yeah, even with the accomplishments we talk about, a million veterans, 40,000 in ohio have gotten care because of our bill on the exposure to burn pits.

with the pensions, we save 100,000 pensions in ohio that wall street essentially took away, if you will. even with the prescription drug at $35 a month sealing for insulin, even with those things, it was hard to start the conversation because they -- particularly in small towns in rural ohio, the city i grew up of 50,000, a lot of the midwest, as you know, joe, is dotted with a lot of small industrial cities that provided a decent middle class wage. you couldn't even start the conversation about being a democrat in many of those coins where the bottom dropped out. ten or fifteen points worse than even six years ago. so until we start talking directly to workers when we listen to workers about where they've, why they've left and where they've gone, they don't necessarily love trump. they just they that the democratic brand is so damaged.

>> why though, specifically? what do you hear over and over again specifically, why have they turned against democrats the way they have? >> well, they doebt n't think w the party that represents them anymore. i saw the transgender ads and i saw all of that. one of my favorite, i won't do the whole story, the story of dr. king, when he was assassinated, he was memphis because he was there talking about the dignity of work, and king, better than any historic figure, wove together civil rights, human rights and worker rights. we don't do that. we're the party of civil rights as we should be, we're the party of human rights. i will never back off. i voted for marriage equality 30 years ago, i was one of the few that did. i'll never back off that. one thing about worker rights is it binds all of us except for the coupon clippers you occasionally have on your show. 90% of the people in this

country, what binds us together is we work. swiping a badge, punching a clock, whatever work you do. we should center our -- we'll talk about other things. i talked a lot about abortion rights, of course, but we should center our discussion on workers and how they are the center piece of our country. they are what binds us as a nation. >> when he says coupon clippers, of course the boston red sox over the past three years, offering prospects, coupons to barn hill, country buffet in pensacola, florida. all you can eat buffets, thinking that would get ohtani, it failed. >> we're going to get soto, no doubt about it. >> come on. >> but he's not going to end up with the guardians either. >> does barnicle understand red

sox fans have become almost as bad as yankees fans. does he understand that? speaking of finding a way to bind you all together. >> you've done it. >> we salute you, senator. >> claire, help me here. claire and i for like -- claire and i root for america's teams, the cardinals and the guardians, real middle america baseball. >> sherrod, listen, i am totally down with you on what you're talking about, the dignity of work, but the other addressed topic that we've got to expose, most of the guys you're looking at right now think baseball is only played in new york and boston. they do not understand -- >> east coast. >> they visit those other cities. >> just the east coast, but go ahead. >> oh, come on, you guys, you are such snobs when it comes to baseball, it is boring. >> claire, i think you should let the woman talk. i mean, all you guys interrupt claire, but the fact is the cardinals have the second best

franchise in american league history in terms of world championships and competing. >> senator, i'm going to pass up the chance at a cheap shot based on the cleveland guardians playing the white sox 19 times a year making the playoffs, but we're going to let that go. i want to ask you, given your -- >> just lost an election, mike, come on. >> beyond your admiral career -- >> be a little more tender. >> fighting for people who we all grew up with, who work with their hands and built this country, what are you going to do now in january? do you have a plan yet? it's tough getting defeated, there's no doubt about that, given your record. what are you going to do? >> i don't know. i've got a lot of options. people are talking to me. people working with your hands, if you would spend the time i do on work sites and manufacturing jobs, companies and small businesses, whatever, you know, i always reject the term rust belt because we're not that.

it's working with your hands and working with your brains. these jobs in american manufacturing are increasingly high-tech. they take great skill. i spend a lot of time with carpenters or bricklayers or mill wrights, apprentice programs and i see five years of workers getting trained, starting at to dollars an hour. the end of five-year apprentice, $35 an hour with insurance and health care and no college debt, and those are highly skilled middle class jobs. i spoke at one of the programs as it launched, apprentice program. all of these young people were wearing shirts that said path not middle class, and we're going to see more of that. we were successful in the c.h.i.p.s bill that you have talked about on the show, having a project labor agreement, 7,000 good middle class union jobs building these plants and we're going to see more of that if done right. >> democratic senator sherrod brown of ohio. coming up, the hidden truth

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welcome back, donald trump won the white house again, largely through his promises to crack down on immigration at the southern border and grow the u.s. economy. yet, a new investigation from the "new york times" reveals the two political issues may be tied more tightly together than previously known. the paper details how major u.s. brands and major corporations are using questionable staffing companies nationwide to fill roles at warehouses not typically wanted by american workers. the "times" investigation reads in part, quote, the broken border has been a lifeline for america's on demand economy under both democratic and republican administrations, including mr. trump's first term. thousands of companies have

exploited its porousness by plucking workers from the ranks of unauthorized migrants, sometimes with impunity. joining us now, one of the investigative reporters behind this piece, steve iter joins us on set. what more did you find on this? this is fascinating because i think a lot of people don't think of this story from this angle. >> yeah, sure, well, thanks for having me, and happy to talk about it. this all sort of began with us looking at, you know, the issues of the broken boarder and that notion and kind of what's behind it, who's benefitting from it. >> right. >> and so that led us to when the border bill failed, for example, earlier this year, that led us to the answer comparing american businesses, and we wanted it interrogate how that works and how is it that migrants come into the country find work. that led us to staffing agencies, and brought us into this whole investigation of the

middle man role staffing agencies play. >> and elise, these are companies we know that people, you know, often make orders to. >> and some of the companies cited as having used these workers are ones we would go to frequently such as home goods and marshals, and these various companies might have used workers that came from one of these staffing agencies. can you talk about the staffing agencies you used as a case study, looking into how this crisis has gotten where it is. >> we focused in on a case study, a company called barren hr, run out of southern california, and what we learned was that barren hr was run by an individual who had been the staffing agency for two decades, had quite a few legal troubles over that time but had grown once and again into this large outfit, and that what we found was, and we talked to workers. we talked to, for this project,

we talked to a hundred workers, and you know, many of them barren workers and what they told us about was not getting paid on time, having injuries at work sites and struggling to get their claims handled. they talked about discrimination, so that brought us through, and we were able to look, too, from there into the clients that barren hr would work with around the country, and you know, began to try to map out a world that can be difficult to map out. >> steve if donald trump puts into place the proposals on the border that he has set forth during his campaign, what sort of impact is this going to have in terms of this part of the sort of hidden part of the economy. >> i can say this, i hate to speculate, but what i can say is that this type of system where, i mean, look not all staffing agencies are breaking the rules and engaging in this. a lot of companies do use us. it's gone on under the current administration, the previous

administration, donald trump's administration, and obama, so it's a system that's been in place for a long time and has taken on new shapes and forms over time and become increasingly important, in the consumer demand age. it's quite systemic. >> katty kay. >> if there is a real crackdown on the border or depor tation o people here illegally, what impact does it have on these companies or the u.s. economy? >> it's a good question. you can see companies are routinely turning to staffing agencies, some of the staffing agencies are using this worker pool, coveting this worker pool. that could be a potential ramification as affecting, you know, the movement of these types of goods. we're seeing this particularly, you know, in our reporting in warehouses and factory settings, and, you know, in logistics and such and the movement of goods. >> all right. investigative reporter for the

"new york times" steve eder, thank you so much for coming in and sharing your reporting with us. we appreciate it. coming up, we're joined by the man behind the menu of the first plant-based restaurant to earn three michelin stars. acclaimed chef and owner of 11 madison park, daniel hu will join us next on "morning joe." j" ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ woah, limu! we're in a parade. everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. and you have this dream every night? yeah, every night! hmm... i see. (limu squawks) only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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the quality of our food, it's changing in front of us rapidly. i started to realize the impact that animal farming has all over the world. i started to realize what was going on in the fish industry. and how broken it is. i started to feel guilty because i felt that for a long time i didn't question enough exactly where our food was coming from, like all of our food.

when you have that knowledge, you have the responsibility to speak about it. >> so that's a clip from the netflix documentary series "you are what you eat" featuring our next guest, world renowned award winning chef, daniel humm, the owner of a new york city restaurant, eleven madison park, famed restaurant, which he reopened after the covid pandemic in 2021, featuring a completely plant-based menu. he's the author of a new set of books, hefty and beautiful, titled, eleven madison park, detailing the transformation of the restaurant into the first plant-based restaurant to earn three michelin stars. it also features some of the plant-based recipes which made the restaurant so famous. and chef daniel, thank you so much for being here. congratulations on the book. beautiful volumes here. tell us about the beginning of this journey for you, with both

the restaurant that led to everything else about realizing how animals are treated and why you wanted to change how your restaurant prepared it . >> yeah, i'm a student of the french cuisine, and i grew up in switzerland, and i did classic training. my goal was to earn three michelin stars, and that's what we did. it was a beautiful journey. i was an athlete before cooking so i had this athlete's mentality, and winning was really important, so we chased all the awards that were there from the michelin stars to the "new york times" stars and then eventually to this list of the best restaurants in the world. which in 2017 our restaurant was named the number one restaurant in the world. >> that's pretty good. >> and at that time, i started to think a little bit more. i reached the mountain top, and

we sort of were looking for the next north star. we started an organization, i cofounded an organization called rethink foods. we take foods and prepare meals for people in need, and then of course the pandemic hit, and that put all our whole restaurant on hold for almost two years. during that time, i transformed the restaurant into a community kitchen, and for two years, all we did was cooking meals for people in need, and it completely changed everything that i was thinking. i reconnected with food in a whole new way with the language of food. i felt like there was much more purpose in preparing these meals than what we did before. >> so when we talk about plant based, maybe not everyone knows what that means, so would you

give us an example of what a sort of plant based meal looks like. i know you guys do thanksgiving. what does plant-based thanksgiving look like? >> plant based is not using any animal products, that's what we are currently doing at the restaurant. for thanksgiving, for example, we have as the main dish, it's sort of a squash, pumpkin stuffed with stuffing and braised in the oven and then of course we have like all the sides that, you know, i didn't grow up in america, but i'm aware that the sides are usually what people are mostly about anyway. i mean, i don't know how many people really love the turkey part. but it's really about the sides.

think about planet and animal health work, do you have tips for americans in that position? >> any choice matters. every meal matters. i am not 100% vegan either. found although i think as a restaurant, it is important to be going all the way and has moved us creatively to show the beauty and everything possible. the truth is that every meal really has an impact on the environment and we do need to reduce how much meat we eat, even if you just start one day a week or two days a week and it is also healthy. >> the volume book set is titled "11 madison park the plant-based chapter." you can reorder it

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good morning and welcome to a special post- thanksgiving edition of morning joe. it is 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. we are on tape this morning with some of our top discussions from recent weeks. take a look. ♪ [ singing ] ♪ ♪[ singing ] ♪.

>> that was the great bob dylan back in 1963 performing the classic song "blowing in the wind." that song along with bob dylan's life are celebrated in the new book from pulitzer prize eroding writer peggy noonan,. wall street journal columnist draws on previous writings hoping to teach readers how to see and love the united states. and peggy joins us now. it is good to see you. >> wonderful to see you. good morning. >> good morning, peggy. it is great to have you here. your book is such a wonderful read. it reminds me, in part, charles

krauthammer, i love hiswork. he wrote his last book and said, this is not going to be about the day-to-day of politics, the messy details that will not survive decades. i'm going to write about things that matter. bigger things that matter. that is what you say here. this is not about the day-to-day politics. it is about something bigger. talk about it and why you decided to write this book. >> a publisher came to me and said, let's do a collection. and i thought, i don't know about that. and we looked at what i had written in the last few years and we continually saw a kind of attempt to celebrate great lives and see america in some sort of fresh way perhaps the way we have been seeing it for the last 10 years. and we simply picked columns that were about great men and great women and great moments in

history. great literature. geniuses like bob dylan who is not just an iconic figure and a great songwriter but a winner of the nobel prize in literature. and so we were not leaning toward some sort of positivity but we were leaning toward that there are good things here. let's talk about them. >> let's talk about them. first, if you don't mind, if we don't talk about the scrum of politics, the current situation, because i think about you and you have sort of this perfect arc to explain a lot about what has happened to the democratic party. if i remember, you were out as a young child with jfk flyers. your family was democratic. you came from

chris matthews. came from an irish catholic family. and we just had on a few minutes ago, sherrod brown who was a champion of working families and seemed better connected to working families in ohio up until the selection and then, getting blown out. we asked him, we are grappling with it. as someone who has seen this full arc, what do you think? the disconnect between working because families and democrats, what do they need to do in your mind to reconnect? >> i listened to senator brown very closely and i thought that his mind was very much on the right things. this is the way i see it. going through my life from the time i was a kid to the time i

was a young woman, the democratic party was seen as three things, it seems to me. a, it was the party of the little guy. it was the party of the nobody. it was the party that was going to take care of people who were not protected in america. two, it was the party of generous spending. they were not too tight with the purse strings. they thought, spend the money. we will make it up at the end. and three, they were the antiwar party by the 60s and 70s. joe, it seems to me they have seeded that to the current republican party, to the trump party. the trump republican party says, we are the party of the little guy. we are the party of generous spending. you guys think you can spend. hold my beer. we are the antiwar party. so if the democratic party was on these, resting on these

three pillars, little guy, antiwar generous spending, and that is gone and they see now the party, of the academic administrator of brown university, not the little guy, and they see more activists in the world and their only as big spending as republicans and lost their pillars, it means they have to rebuild those pillars or new find new pillars. that is how it seems to me. >> peggy, i was skimming through the book earlier today about 5:30 a.m. in the morning and i came to a dead halt when i get to page 188 in your portrait in 2010 of a man that i know and have truly admired. and he is horribly miscast by many in the media. it is wisdom of a non- idiot billionaire, ken langone.

>> he was a little kid on long island, italian american from a plain regular family and born i think perhaps about eight decades ago. and went on and tried, as an ambitious kid, a poor student but an ambitious guy, got through college with the help and encouragement of a lot of people. tried to get a job on wall street because he thought, i'm an american. i'm going to get rich on wall street. they said, you are a tall, italian american kid. you can work in the back with the irishman and the jewish guys. it was a whole other world 50 or so years ago. anyway, he started pretty much his own life as an investment banker. and he went on to invest in great things. he was a very wealthy and will entropic person. and he wrote a book about, guys, you can complain about

this and that but free-market capitalism is the thing that allows lives to happen because it makes jobs which allow families and generosity. so he is just a regular american and i thought, give him some praise. >> as i was looking at the book, i remember you and i were on a panel taping a television show years ago. it struck me that you did a whole column and weekend billy graham. and i grew up in a black baptist pentecostal environment. billy graham was idle to my mother. in one of the things people don't know about his evangelism is he reached out to dr. martin luther king. talk about billy graham's impact on america where he was the president's preacher across

party lines for decades. and took courageous stands even though he was, if i can use the term, godfather of american evangelistic religious tradition . >> thank you. he was an ecumenical figure, billy graham. it was years just after world war ii when he came up and he was this young, southern preacherand he wanted to bring christ to the masses. so he started holding rallies and word got around and the rallies get really huge. and people who had previously not had faith through say the great depression and world war ii, or had seen their faith grow vague or without an animating spirit, they started to listen to him.

they flocked to his rallies and invited friends. but the ecumenical part was that he wasn't saying, be a protestant or catholic or this or that. he was saying, love christ. this is who he is. talking about him and reading, he had nothing in his notes but the bible, which he would quote. and he became a great figure. there is a beautiful portrait of him in the british netflix series, "the crown." he goes to london, billy graham, and gives a series of fabulous rallies in england and the queen of england sees him and thinks, my faith isn't so great. maybe i could meet with him and calls him in and they have lunch and they talk about the more important things in life. i think, when i was coming up, and pretty much when you were coming up, guys like billy graham were considered so impossibly old-fashioned and some kind of southern kind of

gavel's knocking phony. and he wasn't that. he was a great man. and he gaze to gave his life to his beliefs and he meant it. >> the new book, "a certain idea of america" is on sale now. pulitzer prize winner and new york times best-selling author peggy noonan, it is great to see you. >> wonderful to see you guys come all of you. i give you a kiss. >> see you soon. coming up, joe's interview with oscar-winning actor al pacino about his extraordinary life and career. you are watching morning joe. we will be right back. be right back. join our st.. we need you. please donate now.

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there is a plane waiting to take us to miami and an hour. you broke my heart. you broke my heart. >> that is one of the most iconic scenes arguably in movie history featuring al pacino in the godfather two. last week, joe had the chance to sit down with the legendary

academy award-winning actor who recently released his memoir entitled "sunny boy" which was his childhood nickname. al pacino and joe reflected on his incredible journey from an apartment super in manhattan to playing one of the greatest characters ever, michael corleone under the direction of francis ford coppola. take a look. such a great honor. >> you have had a lot of odd jobs. reading this book, i found out that i lived in an apartment on 68th and central park and i'm walking in and this lady says to me, you know, al pacino was a super here. you might have been one of the worst ever. i said whatever. and then i'm reading the book. and you were a super at this apartment complex. >> i was young. 21, 22. someone took a photo of me.

eight by 10. it was one of these pose photos. i put on the door with band- aids to keep it on the door. and i put super under the picture. >> you went through some tough times. martin sheen, who was just a wonderful, beautiful man, comes through in your book. you talk about martin sheen. >> he came into my class and he did this monologue. i had never seen acting that great. it was great acting. and i was enamored with him. he and i, it was a place called the living theater and it was on 14th street and sixth avenue. and we were working for them at the theater and you have to set the stage before the actors start doing it. we would lay the rugs and stuff. i remember being in the back.

we used to clean the toilets and stuff. sitting in the back of the theater looking at the play. saying, my god, look at that. amazing. >> so you had success in the theater. and then your agent says to you, i need you to fly out to the west coast to see francis ford coppola. >> francis saw me in the play. and i had a manager by that time. i had done a couple of plays and i won a tony award. i was a little bit in the conversation. so obviously, saw the play. and asked me to come out to san francisco to the agent. and i thought, i don't want to go there. i don't want to fly. >> my manager says, you are going out with me. i will go with you. i went there and i got to know francis. so he knew me a little before

he called me for godfather. >> and he believed in you before anyone else did and you felt it. >> he called me at my house a year later. that is how this works. what we do. it works that way. they said, they gave me "the godfather." i'm going to direct "the godfather." that's good. i knew this was a great big book . everybody read it. it was one of those. and so it was going to be a movie. and i said, that is great. he said yes. and i want you to play in. i said, he is going too far. he is out in san francisco. god knows what he is taking. practically humored him until i thought of paramount pictures. and i thought, paramount pictures, high as him?

they are smart. they know how good he is. he is a genius. and so i thought, they are smart . and he wants me and that is not so smart. anyway, i said, i had to call my grandmother up. the only one left in my family. i said, granny, you know the book "the godfather?" and yes, i have heard of it. i said, they want me to be in it. can you imagine? and going to play michael. and she calls me back in about 15 minutes and says, granddaddy was born there. in corleone, sicily. >> and you had to start thinking of that part. i said this is great. this is the fate or whatever. >> you had so many challenges in that role. the executives didn't want you. it was very tough.

you said the actors were supportive but there was this scene. everything you write is so vivid. francis ford coppola calls you and says, i need to talk to you. and he is eating dinner with his family and you are forced to do what? >> stand there by the table. i'm standing there. i'm standing at the table. and i know the family there. >> the family is all sitting down eating. >> i'm sitting there and francis is sitting there and saying, you know how much i feel about you and how much i have stood up for you and wanted you. and i'm standing there saying, -- i don't know what is coming. he says, and you are not doing it. i thought, what is it that i'm not doing?

i'm not doing anything. he says, look, i put some film together that we had shot already. they were going to show it to me. >> go in peace and may the lord be with you. >> i'm standing with you. and he left. >> i will just go out and kill myself. it's okay. so i went to the paramount and started looking and thought, wow! this is not so bad. i had planned it. >> as an artist, you are starting and understated with michael. and so it has the build pick they gave you a lousy saying. >> johnny is my father's godson. >> what are we supposed to do?

>> a couple of teenagers. >> it was to show nothing. i didn't want it to and particularly. i wanted to blend. my whole idea of the part is that it would finally show itself and at the end of this film, this guy becomes sort of an enigma. enigma. that was -- i couldn't communicate. the amount of experience i had. i don't know what kept me from saying this. but when i saw the footage, i felt, it's not very good so to speak or whatever that means, good. and i went back to him and i couldn't tell them that this is all a plan. i could not articulate it. i said, i know what you mean. i see what you mean. and we talked about it. i went into the church and i

was to sit there and up you just sitting there thinking and talking to god. and i said, i went in and the next thing you know, they are doing the scene in the restaurant. and so i was prepared for that. that was cool. i could do that stuff. that was the pivot. and the scenes are very clear. you can understand what is going on. and i went in there and i did it. the story was that it was not supposed to be shot that day. and they were looking to fire me and they moved it up. and i did the scene and came off and those two guys are such great guys. and they were so good to me. such good actors. and they knew something was going on. >> that is what you said about

all the actors and the godfather. they knew you were in trouble. and they put their arms around you. >> exactly right. >> awesome. >> i will never forget it. of course everybody looks back and they say, of course the godfather. it is going to be a great hit. of course it was going to be a classic. a while was going on you said, as an actor, you don't really know. and everybody has doubts because you do your part. you start something else. and it is what they do with the editing and the director. you said there was one moment where you said, you know what, we may have a shot. and it is when you see francis ford coppola weeping in a cemetery. >> it was burying the godfather at the scene. people at the cemetery coming

in and out. the day is over. and i'm happy. go have a drink and i had no lines that day so it felt good. and so i walked gingerly to my camper and i see sitting there in the distance, francis ford coppola, on a tombstone. and he is bowling. he is heaving. and i said, what's the matter? and he looks up with tears in his eyes and says, they won't give me another set up. they won't give me another set up meaning, another shot. and i thought, this guy cares. my god. look at him. i don't know what to say. i just said, i think he is on to something. if he has this much passion, that is a good sign.

and i started to think, maybe this is a good movie. >> next, we will have more from joe's sit down with al pacino where they talk about his struggles with fame and addiction. we parade. everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. and you have this dream every night? yeah, every night! hmm... i see. (limu squawks) only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens or you have a parasitic infection. headache and sore throat may occur. ask your doctor if fasenra is right for you. either we heal now, as a team, or we will die as individuals. that is football, guys. that is all it is. now, what are you going to do? >> that was the scene featuring al pacino as a football coach and "any given sunday." i recently sat down with the

legendary actor who is out with a new memoir entitled "sunny boy." that is more of the interview here. and we talked about his struggle to deal with his newfound fame after the success of the godfather. >> a lot of people don't want to talk about this. but how suffocating fame was for you. you are on the corner. there was a redhead and you say, how are you doing. and she says, hello michael. and you said, my world is over. and you started drinking more. and sort of self-medicating. just the pressure, the anxiety that came with that. talk about that. >> it was very strange to have this. being shut out of a cannon is what it felt like. that is how i adjusted to it. probably no wonder i did not look at the godfather much. it reminded me of the state of my life i guess. i didn't know how to take advantage of that. i didn't know how to take

advantage or recognize what was going on because we usually earn friendships because we earn them. people, we get so active. i like him or i like her and we enjoy each other's company. because we do things that is part of our soul come our humanity. and that is how you make friends. i didn't have to do that all the sudden, i would stand there and everything came to me. that is a dream, right? that's like, i wish i had that. sometimes when you are driving around you say, i wish traffic which is clear up and let me through. and you have that feeling and you don't know how to handle it. i didn't know how. i was not prepared for it. >> so you sort of self medicated with drinking. >> yes. and then i started doing other films and then working has always been my lifeboat. and i think that is what has kept me alive.

knock on wood. keep going. >> i'm a baptist but i will cross myself for you. there is this great saying, but there is a madness after the godfather and a craziness. everybody is around. hollywood finally decides, they are going to give you what you should have gotten 20 years earlier, an academy award. and you write about how there wasn't the after call. you were not pumping your fists. there was actually a very zen moment. can you tell everybody about that? >> it was before i won it and after. there was the story about being nominated and then getting so high and drunk that i wouldn't know how to get on the stage. >> so diane keaton, jeff bridges, you are there. and you are so high and so

drunk that by the time you are like, i hope i don't win this. >> i knew i wouldn't win. i went there and knew i wouldn't win. charlie went with me. i'm not going to let these guys down. and then i sat there with diane. we were very close, diane tonight. and we sat there and i was very drunk. i had to go on the plane. but i sat there and i looked sort ofimpassive. but at the same time, i'm thinking, well, we are watching this. and i'm telling her little jokes. she is laughing. and i'm telling the jokes. and as i'm telling her, i'm popping valium. and then i turned to jeff bridges, the great actor, sitting next to me. he didn't know me or he knew me. i don't know what it was. he was looking at me. but might have seen me taking all these pills. i don't know what it was. but he was in different. and i said to him, look, they

are not going to get to the best actor award. and he said, what do you mean? i said because hours have gone by. know best actor theme. he said to me, this is three hours. oh my god. i'm not going to make it. i'm not going to make it. so i went into some spasm. and i said thank you. and i said to diane, this is three hours long. that is what my whole feeling was. the fear mixed with the, i don't belong here kind of feeling. i don't know what it was. what made me like that. but when jack lemmon won, i was like, yet jack. this guy is such a great guy. look how happy he is. i just didn't know. i knew i could not make it up on the stage. >> and you got an award for

"scent of the woman." after you won, you are very zen about it. and it was an oscar and you are fine. >> bruggeman called me. i was doing carlito's way. i had to get back on the set. i did not get a chance to enjoy anything or live it. i had to get on a [bleep] plane to go back to new york to go and do this thing. and i sat on this big plane by myself. my girlfriend was staying in california and i was by myself with my oscar. and i hold my oscar and i remember the time when i was on the subway train. i got into the actors studio. i must have been 22, 23. and i looked in the mirror, the reflection. and i remember standing there thinking, i'm an actor.

i am an actor now. i am in the actor's studio. i'm an actor. and i said, i got an oscar. wow . and it felt good. and for two weeks after, it was like the olympics. people are like, great! and then it's gone. >> it is interesting. you win but you are a working actor. like you said earlier. it is your life raft. even going in, you realized you had a girlfriend. and at that stage, you realized , i'm just not going to be able to really commit to ready and do what i'm doing. >> that's right. >> i saw that because, i sought really getting in the way. and i was young at the time. i

didn't even know where i was. i was drinking of course but i was also having a good time too. but that was my life. coming and going. who cares. i had my booze. that is all i know. i'm taking care of. it was a pleasant time for me for a while. >> you had your booze and then you didn't. you said, this didn't work. >> i was getting there. i was on my way to something that brings unhappiness and tragedy sometimes. i remember just going to -- and i had a hard time. had to say it was difficult to do godfather two because the character was so -- just all the difficult things i had

to do. >> no way you could ever forgive me. not with this sicilian thing that has been going on for 2000 years years. >> he kills his own brother and goes through so much. and at the same time, i was, wi godfather to different places we went to. >> i almost died. >> in my home, in my bedroom where my wife sleeps. where my children come play with toys. >> and i think it did weigh on me and i came out of that and then i did dog day afternoon which was wild wild. >> get away from the alarms. >> and i don't know.

it sort of crept up on me. i didn't know what i was doing really. i knew it when i was working. when i was developing characters and doing a play. i knew what i was doing. but handling a life at that time. i'm not saying that i didn't have great times but pretty soon, later, i found myself -- i took off for four years. and that is when i had some big- time failures. >> scarface was a huge failure, by the way. not many people know that. >> i didn't know that. >> it was a failure? >> yes. when it came out. >> financially? >> the audience came but not in droves. after a while, it was difficult because this movie is different.

and then it started catching on. you had the hip-hop generation that just took it. and they embraced it and understood it. and vhs came out. all the sudden, the dvds. and the spreads all over the world. and it just kept going. and it was just out of nowhere. the biggest movie i've ever made. it is close. >> we have more of the wide ranging conversation with al pacino just ahead. they will talk about the godfather, hollywood fame and the oscar-winner's near death experience with covid that is straight ahead on morning joe.

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the face in the light. >> hello. >> gino. i have a meeting with a very handsome cowboy man. >> he is waiting for you at the bar. >> well, since i just started watching the film festival, i think i know who you are. >> it is my pleasure, mr. shores. thank you for taking an interest. >> al pacino in a late career role as a classic movie agent. from quentin tarantino's "once upon a time in hollywood." sunday what is the name of al pacino's just released my more and here, in the final part of the revealing conversation with the legendary actor, we get the story behind some of his past struggles and his tumultuous upbringing in the bronx.

>> i have to say that i have never heard, until this book came out, about how you were fleeced. >> all my money was gone. >> of course. >> your father, the accountant . >> how did that happen? >> i don't know. i just didn't think about money. some people don't. you think about it of course. especially when you have kids. then it comes into play. >> my thing with money. and then i find out that it is gone. all of it is gone. i have about three different places i live. >> i'm supporting -- pneuma. >> a $400,000 landscaping for a house you said you never went to. >> la, i never went to.

>> i didn't look at certain things and unfortunately, i still don't. i have to be aware of those things. it was a big thing. my account went away for seven years. >> prison. >> a couple things about this that stood out. really vivid storytelling. you can tell that you grew up around people that told stories. the second part, strangely enough, you thought about this really big character, a huge character with scarface and everything else. but there is a humility here. to know war stories. there is a real humility and gratitude. >> is that your grandparents or your mom? >> i think it was the environment i grew up in. certainly from my grandfather. i know that.

but my mom too. she was that way. i guess that was to show off in the apartment. >> i remember throughout this whole thing. you get so used to it. i was swinging on the fire escape. i fell right on my head. and i had a concussion. a bad one. and i think it affected my whole life. >> in a positive way. >> and i thought, why is my brain in a fog? i had covid three times. they say that it fogs up with covid. >> and almost died it. >> you said, i'm not so sure i died. there i was talking to the guy giving me the iv. and he is doing that and i'm looking at him trying to remember his name. gone.

and i thought, i couldn't think of anything. i didn't think of anything. i opened my eyes and there were five or six paramedics in my living room. and they were doctors covered from head to foot with this stuff. like we are on another planet. and i told mike, my assistant, they told him that my pulse stopped. that is a tough thing to hear. you get a little panicked from that. i don't know. how could all of those people have gathered there. and be ready to take me somewhere. it had to take more than 30 seconds. it had to take four or five minutes tops. i couldn't withstand that if i was dead. my brain dead. no. that is the aftereffect. i kept thinking about it. and i thought, did i really

die? to be or not to be. >> i want to read the end of the book. you said this life is a dream, as shakespeare said, and the sad part of dying is you lose your memories. memories are like wings. they keep you flying like a bird in the wind. if i'm lucky enough and i get to heaven perhaps, i will get to reunite with my mother there and all i want is a chance to walk up to her, look in her eyes and simply say, ma, look what happened to me. >> quite a ride. >> that was beautiful. >> talk about that. look what happened to me. a kid from the bronx poor, hungry. you went to the tragedy of losing a mom and having an absent dad. >> what i had though is, i had

a connection to the streets with my friends. i think that is what saved my life. i really loved my friends. and it went the way of the needle. i love to them. and i always felt this close like to tom sawyer. it has that reflection there. we were adventurous. we were street people but we were together. and we lived in this world where from time to time, we were threatened. the times we were together helped. but just living through all the adventures we had. >> you said the one thing you had was your mother and grandparents to love you. even grandparents that you did not remember until later on,

were there for you helping you through it all. >> that is right. i had family. and that is what it is. family. >> that is what this is about. i think i know you on the screen. love you. we learned so much about you. and i'm so grateful. >> i learned about you. you are really good interviewer. you do a lot of other things too. >> the storytelling is amazing. thank you so much. >> that is it for this hour of morning joe. we have you have a great day! the news continues after this short break right here on msnbc. good morning, it is sunday december 1st.