were there for you helping you through it all. >> that is right. i had family. and that is what it is. family. >> that is what this is about. i think i know you on the screen. love you. we learned so much about you. and i'm so grateful. >> i learned about you. you are really good interviewer. you do a lot of other things too. >> the storytelling is amazing. thank you so much. >> that is it for this hour of morning joe. we have you have a great day! the news continues after this short break right here on msnbc. good morning, it is sunday december 1st.

i'm alicia mendez. it is the latest drastic move to diminish checks and balances on his power. this morning, democratic congresswoman elect, janelle binan is here. how she flipped her district to blue. grab your coffee, settle in to "the weekend." didn't warn you, donald trump is lining up yet another yes man this time to replace the fbi director. last night, trump announced he will nominate kash patel, a 2020 election denier to lead the fbi. now, patel is a maga loyalist lacking serious experience in federal law enforcement, but why should that stop him?

he's obsessed with a so called deep state that doesn't even exist and has called for a purge of any fbi agent perceived to be a trump enemy. we should mention trump is hiring for a job that's not open. trump hired christopher wray during his first term after he fired james comey. wray's ten-year term should not end until august of 2027, unless of course he gets fired when trump enters office in 2026. or '25. we appreciate tara being here. good morning. >> good morning, thanks for having me. >> we have heard kash patel's name bandied about for a long time. tell us how this decision came together? >> i think it was evitable that kash patel was going to get a senior position within the administration.

donald trump mused about making him fbi director in his final days in the white house as well. it was just a matter of whether to give him a position that required confirmation or not because he already has a pretty tall order with some of the people he's asking the senate to confirm, and that's, you know, tulsi gabbard who has visited with assad, who is on a no fly list, who has a favorable view of putin. pete hegseth, accused of sexually assaulting a woman. and a new letter came out from his mother calling him an abuser. and robert f. kennedy, he's adding another person to a piling list of difficult people for the senate to swallow, and to confirm and really these nominations can be tanked by four votes. you've got people like lisa murkowski, susan collins and

mitch mcconnell, the new senator from utah, willing to tank those things. he's added another person, and i question why he's using so much political capital right now on these positions, and i think, you know, whatever happens kash patel will probably find a prominent position within the white house or the administration, even if it's not confirmable. this is going to be difficult to confirm, matt gaetz difficult. >> the thing to understand is that donald trump values political capital very differently than most folks in washington, d.c. it is a commodity that is highly fungible and in unlimited supply. but to that end, you've got the fbi trying to save face as much as possible, i guess, under the circumstances, issuing a statement saying, quote, every day the men and women of the fbi continue to work to protect

americans from a growing array of threats. director wray's focus remains on the men and women of the fbi, the people we do the work with, and the people we do the work for. those growing array of threats happen to be the individual who are being nominated to lead the fbi among other agencies. how does the fbi, along with some of the other ones, the department of justice, and the department of health, how do these agencies continue to stand up or do they fold like a cheap suit once these nominees get in place? >> an organization is only as powerful as the people who make it up. you can have a leader. kash patel is going to need to fill out loyalists and if he plans on purging the organization, getting rid of the so called deep state or bureaucrats, you know, who will actually take those jobs, lead

those positions and will they have the institutional knowledge to be able to protect the country? the fbi is not just law enforcement, you know, agency within the u.s. they also coordinate with interpol, they deal with domestic terrorism and international terrorism. they are, you know, keeping us safe every single day in ways we don't know about. handling bomb threats, handling attacks to national security. so it's a -- he's going to have to recruit as well, and i mean, if he's maligning the people that are already in there, it's going to be difficult to recruit. you can't stand up an entire agency like that on one person. i think, you know, if he gets into the fbi, it's going to be -- it's going to be extremely disruptive. then it has to be functional, like a lot of positions that donald trump t he leaders he ha chosen for the institution. they're exciting to people who

want to tear it all down. once you tear it down, you have to build it back up, and you have to do that in day one. i think that if the american people don't think that government is running smoothly and they feel that they're unhappy with the execution with the governments, you're going to see a whiplash in the next election. >> can i say to tara's point, michael, how they want to bring it down, what they want to do is defund the fbi, kash patel specifically, even if he were to tear it down, rebuilding it in his image becomes difficult if he does not have any money. >> you have to recruit talent like any organization. you have to be able to pay people. you need to be able to execute plans, and you know, it's just massive bust. it's a huge agency. it's sprawling all over the u.s. with various, you know, offices. it's so much more complex than one, you know, 44-year-old former public defender who put

up a memo, you know, saying that the fbi botched the russia hoax. it's like, you know, you need credentials for this kind of job. >> it's wild that every former director has asked for more money in order to keep america safe and secure and this guy wants less. so these confirmation hearings, this will be part of what congress is dealing with in their first hundred days. we're getting a sense more broadly of what it is that they're going to be doing this from "axios." the first hundred days of a new presidency is seen s a critical period for legislating. he failed to check off items in 2017 when republicans had a 20-seat buffer in the house. that likely means rough conditions ahead for trump's plans on immigration, taxation, trade policy and more. what are you anticipating? >> trump is coming in with so much swagger, you know, thinking, yes, he won the

popular vote. that's a huge deal, especially for republicans. that just hasn't happened in recent history. but he doesn't really have the, you know, he doesn't have the electoral capital in the house and in the senate. he won a number of s in the senate. he only got one vote majority in the house, you have zero defenders. you can't have people out for various reasons that are unrelated to their support of your legislation, and truly you know this, you really can only get things done within the first year, and then people are just already thinking about the midterm elections, right, and members, they get anxious. they're not going to necessarily kowtow. they've got to think about their own political survival. a number of senators are in the same position that are up in 2026. some of them are obviously worried that they might be primaried from the right. somebody maybe like senator bill

cassidy, lisa murkowski and susan collins, they're pretty strong brands in their state and can withstand some abuse from donald trump. others, maybe not so much. lindsey graham seen as too maga by some in south carolina, and too liberal by others. you know, they have their own political consideration, and trump has a really big thing on his plate, and that is corporate tax cuts. how are they going to go home and sell corporate tax cults to their constituency, and say this is somehow benefitting you. the senate has a really tall order, and trump doesn't have a lot of time, and he's wasting a lot of political capital on these appointments frankly. >> real quick before we let you scoot, tara, to that last point, wasn't of the things i have been hearing from a number of folks around town, that's why the emphasis on day one executive orders that they know that the margins are tight, so this is going to be a presidency at

least in the first few months that's going to be driven largely been executive orders. what are you hearing on that front, and how massive will that look like? >> absolutely. i mean, he's going to test the limits of the executive branch and its powers. i imagine a lot of this will be held up by courts. he tried to do this on day one in 2017. you know, there was the muslim ban on day one. there were a number of executive orders, a flurry of them, many never survived, and that's the thing about executive orders, it's not quite as strong as a full, you know, as legislation produced through the congress. but he's going to try as much as he can, but the executive orders are often for them symbolic. it's like assigned to his base, trying to enact this legislation, and worst case scenario, it doesn't pass, all he can do, he can blame congress and use him as a foil, and say this is the problem, it's them.

they're already so unpopular that it's an easy foil for donald trump to say, i tried to pass legislation, congress wouldn't let me do it. the lower courts are stopping me. there's liberal judges appointed by chuck schumer. he'll start turning on his own republicans if they try to block him at all. i feel like this is going to be a rerun of 2016, but at a heightened level because they know what they're doing this time. it's not just steve bannon and steven miller hanging up in the executive office building, typing up executive orders that have no way of passing. they have project 2025. executive orders that have been drafted years ago, ready to go. and they have been legally vetted, so they may hold up in court, unlike the other ones that were slap dash. >> yes, there we are. tara palmeri, thank you so much for starting us off, little boys and their toys.

next, elon musk starts naming names that he wants to cut from the federal government. making it clear that he's only looking out for himself. you're watching "the weekend." —no peeking. —okay. okay. ♪♪ open. ♪♪ ♪♪ over 600,000 usps employees working in sync to ensure everything sent on its holiday ride ends with a moment of joy. ♪♪ the united states postal service. liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself.

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this coming week, house republicans will meet with elon musk and vivek ramaswamy, trump's picks to completely gut the federal government despite never having worked in the federal government. one of the duo's new targets, the consumer financial protection bureau, surprising no one. project 2025 called for the cfpb to be shut down too. democratic congressman, chris delusio, of course the billionaire crowd wants to shut down a watchdog for cons and crooks. good morning, congressman. >> good to see you. so mike johnson, the speaker of the house announced that, you know, did this on x, by the way, that the doge crowd, you know, the elon musk, vivek ramaswamy

show is going to be meeting with him next week, i guess, to talk about how they're going to blow up their jobs because, well, why not. how do you see this whole doge thing playing out, and what exactly can democrats do to at least let the american people know that when, you know, the cfpb goes and other agencies disappear, all the things that protected them, all the things that they have come to rely on in terms of a properly functioning government go away? >> well, it's not just properly functioning government, it's the parts of government that are protecting all of us to keep costs down, to protect us against fraudsters and crooks and grifters. as i said, it's not surprising that you put a couple of billionaire guys in charge of this stuff, and they're going after the exact watchdog that saved the public $20 billion over the last decade or so. these fights aren't new, right?

fdr talked about the economic royalists he was fighting back in the great depression. donald trump is going to put billionaires in charge of protecting all of us and doing the things that they're going to do to make life more expensive. if that's the lesson they learned from the election, we're going to crush them at the polls. the american people do not want to get ripped off. they think life is too expensive and guys like me are going to fight to break down the costs, and fight the handouts that donald trump is going to be doing in his second term. >> i think you're getting at what is a core tension here, which is a lot of the policies or a lot of the things that, you know, cfpb was able to implement going after junk fees, going after predatory lenders, those were some wildly popular positions. didn't matter where you were on the ideological spectrum. folks don't want to be paying more money to their credit card companies, simply for the act of borrowing. i understand that project 2025

wants to demolish cfpb because it doesn't benefit their corporate cronies. there would seem to me to be a political tension in terms of the pop ulist popularity of the things cfpb delivers. >> credit card fees is a great one. it saves people money. it's wildly popular. it's good policy. you have a billionaire crowd that wants to go after the cfpb for doing exactly that, tackling credit card fees and medical debt. you have right left agreement with working with the new president on capping fees. bernie sanders and senator hawley in missouri, that's a weird pairing but tells you it's a popular policy. seems like donald trump is going to stack his administration with those people. that's the fight ahead, and i think democrats ought to be looking to folks who are willing to fight for people and against

some folks. talked about for too long, democrats were about finding some win-win framing, and you know what, sometimes there's a villain. sometimes there's a bad guy, and you got to punch him in the mouth and fight for your people. we need more of that in the democratic party. >> it's interesting for me, having grown up in washington, d.c. i'm not a big government guy. i'm a small government conservative. i believe in the proper role and function of government. it has a place. what is frustrating is that over the years republicans have become delusional when it comes to government and that's manifest in the appointment of these two, you know, misfits as part of this that donald trump has put in place. as someone whose dad was a federal employee rings home in the "washington post" noting how

ramaswamy and musk whose personalities will clash, unless ramaswamy decides to bow to everything musk decides he wants to do, as they put this together, the panel's most immediate impact could be to demoralize the federal work force, and increase attrition, an outcome that could hinder critical government functions, such as approving permits for businesses. when something like that takes place, not just permits for business but to get the checks processed, to get information about your parents' care, and things they need or for your own personal business. that part of it, congressman, is the most frustrating. you think so little of the men and women who actually make the government function. it can be lopsided and crazy sometimes, but in the name, these are good people with long careers of public service that is now being degraded and spat

upon by the idiocy. >> there's a good example of this. i used to be like my federal veterans do, 2025, wants to continue this privatize toward outsourcing veterans care. they outsourced all the veterans claims exams. those companies are making a ton of money. there's little oversight. that's the model. they want to look for efficiency on the backs of veterans, while fiscally, recklessly handing out tax cuts for businesses. they want our government to deliver on basic promises like veterans care, rail safety. i talked about what happened in east palestine, to my constituents, we're going to tell the railroads there are rules you have to follow to keep all of us safe. i think the american people

expect us to do that, expect us to have common sense, straightforward rules that everyone in the economy can follow. >> you won your seat, a swing district, kept it in democratic control, even as we saw other losses for democrats in your state. i want to read this one. you know, when in western pennsylvania, without union workers backing you, you added, and i never took that support for granted. that was central to my economic pitch to voters, having a strong and vibrant labor movement is not just good for our economy and workers, it's how we can elect candidates who stand up for those workers. one of the conversations coming out of this past election, of course, or to democrats' relationship with those who runs the unions, not necessarily the same relationship with workers in those unions. what are democrats going to need to do to regain that trust? >> we got to listen, number one. listen to where rank and file members are. you got to put economy issues front and center. i talked a lot about not just

this campaign, but my first term in office about making more stuff in america. senator fetterman and i put out an agenda early this fall, we're going to keep working on. that's about bringing home more manufacturing. bringing our supply chains back and strengthening union protections on the job. people want good solid jobs. if you work hard and play by the rules, the american dream is yours. we lose sight of goodness, we lose one of the greatest parts of this country. lots of democrats put everything center and forward. you want to win in the rust belt, you better have a strong economic message to folks. >> chris deluzio of pennsylvania, thank you so much for being with us this morning. >> thanks, guys, good morning. congressman elect janelle bynum joins us.

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of giving back. we have got news since we've last seen you, ben wikler, formally announcing he's going to enter the rain for chair of the dnc, having served as the head of the wisconsin state democratic party since 2019. >> he's joining ken martin out of minnesota, and of course mark o'malley out of maryland running as well. so this field is beginning to take more shape. i just, i think this is good stuff. i have a particular affinity for mr. wickler. he's got this real grass roots vibe from him. he's a street guy. i think he knows what the parties like on the street. >> in a place where it has not necessarily been easy for democrats to win. >> not been easy, and i think

that's going to be something that really makes a difference. not to toot a horn here. you all should read what i wrote about this on msnbc daily. because i don't write much, when i write, it matters. >> as my favorite author once said. >> seriously, i think he just brings a sort of -- i probably am killing his chances here, but as someone who knows how to win elections, hey, he seems to have a good sense of what that takes, and so that's going to be an interesting piece, you know. native son o'malley notwithstanding, you got to give props out to maryland, but this is about how the party repositions itself, and i think this guy, i love that smile, it's infectious, he's got a connection with people. and you need that. i mean, those are some of the things that we were talking about yesterday, where you've got to be able to sell the message. you've got to be able to sell the messengers.

in addition to the message. and then you've got to have a broad sense of how you want to lead the party, and so we'll see. >> this is what he said in his statement out today. today the country we love needs the democratic party to be stronger. i have led the democratic party of wisconsin for the last five years, helping to transform it into an organizing, fund raising and winning machine. for democrats to move forward we must build a big tent, organize in every community and platform, and reach voters who currently get their news about democrats from republicans. that is a good way to put that. that will be my mission as dnc chair. >> that's it right there. and that's why i said what i said because that's connective tissue that's very important. and i think, you know, look there's a lot of road ahead before this vote is cast, and their process is much more involved, more people voting than we had on the republican side. but still, this is a national

campaign for the job at a time where the party needs leadership. so congrats to ben for getting in. good luck to all of the champions seek to ing to hoist flag for the dnc. coming up, how much damage could trump's economic plans do to america's economy and your wallet. well, we want to talk that with our friend ali velshi when he joins us at the table next. this is "the weekend," that's where we do this. ," that's where we do this unpack once and get closer to iconic landmarks, local life and cultural treasures. because when you experience europe on a viking longship, you'll spend less time getting there and more time being there. viking. exploring the world in comfort. [♪♪] did you know, how you feel

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so trump's new art of the deal playbook threatening steep tariffs as an act of diplomacy. this weekend, trump warned he will inflict a 100% tariff on brics countries if they move away from the u.s. dollar. including brazil, russia, india, china and south africa. this comes on the heels of what trump called a quote, very productive meeting this weekend

with canada's prime minister, justin trudeau met with trump friday at mar-a-lago to discuss trump's threat to impose a 25% tariff on all goods from canada. joining us now, the moment has arrived in which the one and only, the host of velshi, ali velshi is at the table with "the weekend." >> we're all friends but i'm a huge admirer of the show. i get a little bit at the end. this is fun for me. >> we haven't invited you for your economic expertise, we have invited you as a canadian to tell us what you think about justin trudeau. explain to me, i understand this is not, like, real economics. economics is not what is driving any of these decisions around tariffs, around specifically -- >> it's mostly political. a little bit of economics, mostly political. >> let's talk about this brics thing, this is interesting, a

group that started in 2005 and 2006, they recently had a meeting, and vladimir putin was there, and the whole thing has changed. these were emerging economies that were not part of the g7, russia was, it was g 8, but they were sort of on the side, fast growing big economies, brazil, russia, india, china, south africa. this is a lot of stuff. they have had a discussion in recent years about shifting away from the dollar. at one point they were talking about using the chinese currency, obviously russia would like to not have the dollar central to its operations and they're talking about switching away from the dollar. now donald trump after talking about the tariffs on canada and the mexico and china has added a separate thing that he will put 100% tariffs on these countries if they stop using the american dollar for trade. they're probably not going to switch away from the american dollar, but it was a point of leverage for them. then you're talking about this other stuff, mexico, canada and

china. fentanyl and immigration. that's not a canada program. it's weird that canada got roped into this thing. it's the way he starts a negotiation. the rest of us would say let's renegotiate these trade deals we've got. he's got everybody to the table. claudia sheinbaum is saying you do this for us, we'll do it to you, justin trudeau is taking a different approach, very canadian way of doing things, can we just talk about this, guys, china is where the issue is. there's a real thing that has to be solved with our trade relationships with china, and china is vulnerable right now. their economy is softening, they are zero interested in a trade fight with america. they're even zero interested in taking over taiwan at this point. they don't want to happen to them what has happened to russia. they don't want to be a pariah, and they don't want to be isolated. as is often the case, he's on to something, but he's taking a sledge hammer where you need not just a stiletto but years and years of negotiation.

we do need to reorder the way the world trades. he wants to get there. this isn't going to be the way he gets there. >> is that why we see over the last few weeks and certainly the "wall street journal" has reported yesterday, quote, corporate america is unleashing an unorthodox campaign to influence donald trump's agenda in the weeks leading up to a second inauguration, a period that is emerging as a key stretch for shaping the next administration to break into the unusual circling of influence that surrounds trump. chief executives are discussing whether to try to secure an appearance on joe rogan's podcast. they're buying the trump family's cryptocurrency token and e-mailing tips about spending cuts to vivek ramaswamy, what the hell is these folks doing? they're not just playing with matches relative to our economy. serious time bombs given what donald trump is saying he wants to do, and all the other players that are out there, who could

react in a way that could harm the very interests of these folks on wall street. >> they're doing, i think, what they called in the 18th century or the 8th century, bending the knee. they are doing what timothy snyder said. they're obeying in advance. companies have always lobbied, they have tried do the thing that puts them in the administration in charge. there's a delineation between the outgoing biden administration and the incoming trump administration. it's got to do with regulation. a lot of companies have faced a trade commission under lina khan that has been very assertive. no new laws. she has been assertive, you can't control too much of the market. you can't do certain things. they want not just a trump -- remember in 2016, you wanted a trump who didn't target you on social media, who didn't take your name, who didn't come after you. now you want something different. you want a deregulatory trump, a trump that's going to allow your company to do what it wants, if you're social media or a company that controls up to a third of

the market, which is the threshold for federal regulation. you really want these guys on your side. so they are paying homage to him. they're showing up in the places where he will listen. i don't love it, and i'll tell you why i don't love it. there's something called the trust barometer. the public relations firm, has been seeing who americans trust. in the absence of trusting your government and your courts, they are trusting their businesses, believe it or not. corporate america has greater trust than any of the other institutions in our society. they're giving up that trust. we're in a low unemployment world. employees want their companies to be doing the right thing and be in the right places more than they even want raises and titles. companies are signaling to employees and customers that we care more about engendering favor with the administration than we do about our core principles. that's a big long-term mistake, and as it relates to gender equality, as it relates to

racial equality, as it relates to the climate and things people care about, they're sending a signal that we care more about deregulation, low taxes and currying favor with this administration than we care about you, our customers, you our employees. i think , it's a bad long-term strategy. >> we have less than a minute left. you're a tv person, you understand what i say when i say that. we're also talking about mass deportation. there was reporting at the ag industry, we're going to be spared because you understand the inflationary nature of not having nature. >> republicans have always understood that. republican governors in the west. john huntsman of utah, 15 plus, maybe 20 years ago about the fact that they wanted a guest worker program for their workers. america is going to suffer. now, look, that may be the only way to solve this discussion, to realize that when if you try and deport 11 million people, not only will your agriculture suffer, your construction, ability to build roads, home

building will suffer. all of these will suffer. a lot of people saying i don't want to get in the way of your weird political policies but this is an economic policy, this will hurt us all if it happens. i think it's like the 25% tariffs on brazil, and on mexico and canada and china. not 100% sure all of this is going to happen. these are opening sal vos, beginnings of discussions. this is going to be economic. >> polly anna and trump don't necessarily go together in the same sentence. it's more than 11 million people because what happens is the cold effect it has on everybody else who decides i'm not going to go to work tomorrow because i don't know if i'm on some list or not. >> we don't know where the lists are. >> everybody seems to have them. kash patel is coming in with his own lists, a lot of lists going around. >> a lot of lists. >> i just want to be on santa's list. that's the only list i want to be on. >> no one smarter, no one better dressed. >> i paid her to say that for our boss, but thank you.

>> nice to be with you guys. >> what a treat for us. and you can see more of ali right after "the weekend" on "velshi." next up, what we can expect from jack smith's final report on his trump administrations. kristy greenberg joins us at the table. you're watching "the weekend." ."

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special counsel jack smith has dropped the federal election interference case and the classified documents case against trump. smith stressed that his decision was not about the strength of his cases, rather his reasoning hung on the justice department's belief that the constitution prohibits prosecutions of sitting presidents. special counsel plans to release a final report as required by law on his investigations. attorney general merrick garland is expected to publicly release it as he has with past special counsel reports. with us now, former federal prosecutor and legal analyst, kristy greenberg. good morning. >> there's been a whole lot of

noise, and excited utterances about the melt down of these cases on the heels of the election and what that may mean. i thought barbara mcquade, our friend, said something very interesting, she noted, quote, smith's brief contains another tell when he writes that olc has noted the possibility that a court might equitably toll the statute of limitations to permit proceeding against the president out one side of office. that is a court could call a time-out, pausing it on trump's inauguration day on january 21st, 2025, and then restarting the clock when trump leaves office in 2029. that would give prosecutors plenty of time to refile charges. this reminds me a lots of aluminum siding. it's what people used to put on their homes to protect their homes from the weather and the storms that would come, and so

this is a way of sort of protecting the case, sort of encasing it if you will for a future possibility. am i being way too hopeful here in making this leap or is this something that jack smith suddenly was putting into place? >> i agree with bart that the statute of limitations could be told her. jack smith referenced that in his papers that that was a possibility, and it seems only fair, you don't get to say, hey, you can't prosecute me but also have the statute of limitations for when the prosecutors could act still going. you can't have your cake and eat it too. that said, i'll use a different analogy, these cases are going into a coma for the next four years, and i think they're effectively dead. i think it's highly unlikely that they're revived after the four years. you're talking about i think what we're setting ourselves up for in the next four years are exactly what the trump people are saying.

pam bondi, the incoming ag, if she's confirmed, saying we're going to investigate the investigators. we are going to prosecute the prosecutors. these prosecutors or investigators are in for a long haul over these next four years if the trump people are to be believed and i believe what they say. is somebody really four years down the road, we don't know what this will look like, what is the state of the evidence, are witnesses going to be available, are they going to be threatened, idated? cases don't get better over time, they get worse. we don't know if they will preserve the evidence. will they? these are trump's lawyers being brought into doj. it's hard for a new prosecutor to pick up a case from another prosecutor, and this kind of complex, sprawling investigation, to pick up the pieces wherever they may be four years down the road and assume that the new doj, whatever party that is would have the will to do it politically? i just, i don't want to get people's hopes up that this is

something that is realistic, because i don't think that it is. >> how about the public report, what can we glean from that? >> i don't know that we're going to glean all that much. i mean, jack smith really, i mean, not only put together a detailed indictment but then in a follow up brief really laid out why he thought a lot of these acts were unofficial, and really put a lot more meat on the bones there. i'm not sure how much will be new. my selfish hope is that there is a lot that's redacted, and the reason why is i'm hoping -- because we know he just charged donald trump. right? but we know there's coconspirators one through six in that indictment that are not identified but we have a good idea of who they are. and what i'm hoping is that he's redacting those pieces because he's taken the evidence that he has and he's sharing it with the state prosecutors because nothing is going to happen with the federal government over the next four years but the state prosecutors can still proceed. they can proceed against these coconspirators, and yes, donald trump has effectively gotten a get out of jail free card but why should these other people, the enablers, why should they

get that? >> especially when you think this is not only retrospective but the idea was to set a standard by which people did not want to crime in the future. that warning was supposed to be issued not just at trump, but at folks around him. >> yeah, but the problem is the system showed that it was probably way more flexible than it needed to be. and you can go back to earlier stages of this coming off the heels of january 6th and that process being delayed by merrick garland, and a lot of people heaped stuff at his feet, and i think rightly so, but there are so many other aspects of the trump crime syndicate, if you will, that is involved t just, you know, classified documents, but other acts that it just really put the system through its paces, and it's still

stunning to me that we elevated a private citizen to a position where they were above the law. on the one hand, even jack smith in his report notes that, oh, well, you know, we have this thing with donald trump having now been reelected or been elected president so he's the president of the united states, but then in the next breath, you talk about, well, no one is above the law, well, yeah, they are because he is. and so what does this say for the future of this system, particularly by the time, four years from now, these guys are done going what they're going to do to it? the folks who are inheriting doj and the fbi and the other federal organs related to law and order are there for trump. they're not there for the citizens. these are trump lawyers doing trump things. and the rest of us are just going to watch the system be deconstructed to the point where

it's nothing? >> i mean, not to be totally a debbie downer this morning, but i agree with you. i mean, i don't think that the lawyers that he is appointing to come in that are his lawyers, he's thinking, oh, well, now the loyalties will shift, and they're now taking an oath to uphold the constitution, they're there to serve the public and not me. that's not why donald trump is putting them in there. he's putting them in there to continue to serve him. a lot of legal experts say they will recuse themselves for anything involving donald trump. of course they won't. jeff sessions did that in the russia investigation, and trump was furious. he's not going to let that happen again. these guys are there essentially to do his bidding and we should be very clear eyed about that. yes, has the system failed with respect to donald trump, absolutely it has, but, you know, so what is the next bet, if you actually care about upholding the law at all, and i

think it's these other coconspirators. there's no immunity for rudy giuliani, boris epshteyn, the sidney powells, all of these other, you know, john eastman. those other people named in the indictment, what they did was terrible, and they should be held to account, and even though doj isn't going to do it, the state prosecutors can. we have ongoing state prosecutions in arizona, and in georgia. there are based on my reading of the indictment, the federal prosecutors could be referring out to states in michigan and pennsylvania, potential charges against rudy giuliani. i mean, it's laid out very clearly here that there is more that could come, and i'm sure they've built their own cases but jack smith built an airtight case here. he had a lot of evidence that we don't even know, you know, scratch the surface and seen in the indictment. share it. there's a way you can get orders federally to share the evidence with the state. let them use it and go after these coconspirators with appropriate charges. >> we need to see it. absolutely. share it. two words.

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