good morning to you. it's sunday, december 1st. the president-elect has sent his clearest signal he's going to up-end the law enforcement agencies and the rule of law itself. last night trump announced on truth social he plans to replace the current fbi director, christopher wray, with one of trump's staunchest allies, kash patel. replacing the fbi director, who's limited to serving a single ten-year term is an unusual move in itself, buttist something trump has done before, you'll recall, early in his first presidency. trump fired fbi director james comey, who is leading an investigation at the time regarding possible ties between trump's campaign, some of his aides and russia. wray was then appointed to succeed comey as fbi director and now wray won't be able to

serve his term. this is the latest episode that shows how paranoid and frustrated trump has been of the law enforcement arm of the federal government ever since he entered office. >> in 2016 i declared, i am your voice, today i add, i am your warrior, i am your justice, and for those who have been wronged and betrayed, i am your retribution. i am your retribution. i will fire the unelected bureaucrats and shadow forces who have weaponized our justice system like it's never been weaponized before. sick, these are sick people. >> trump has been in search of people loyal to him to lead various departments and shield him from any future investigations. as he reiterated over and over again on the campaign trail, he also wants revenge. in order to do that, he needs someone to help him build the

legal apparatus to do just that. he might have found that person in patel, if patel can be confirmed by the senate. patel has been one of the most controversial figures in trump's orbit for years. he promoted the baseless claims that trump won the 2020 election as well as other conspiracy they'res. patel has held several administration posts during trump's first term in office. this is want the first time he has proposed putting patel in a top position at the fbi. he promoted making patel deputy fbi director. barr objected, later writing he told mark meadows he would only allow that to happen, quote, over my dead body, end quote. and wrote, quote, patel had virtually no experience that would qualify him to serve as the highest level of the law enforcement agency, end quote.

he tried to install patel as deputy fbi assistant, and gina haspel threatened to resign over the matter. patel has been a critic of the federal law enforcement agencies. am his own memoir titled "government gangsters," he wrote about cleaning house in the justice department and fbi. he openly threated to prosecute members of those agencies and other civil servants across the federal government. during an interview with steve bannon last year, he vowed to go after the press and the media. >> we will go out and find the conspirators not just in government but the media. yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about american citizens who helped joe biden rig presidential elections. we're going to come after you. whether criminally or civilly, we'll figure it out. but, yeah, we're putting you all on notice.

>> whether it's criminally or civilly, we'll figure that out, which gives you the impression they already decided what they want to do. they just have to figure out how to do it. patel's promise to clean house and go after trump's perceived political points will roil that agency and could, importantly, divert time, resources and attention as well as deplete the fbi of the man power. needs to investigate serious crimes and threats to the country. but most crucially, the patel pick brings into sharp relief the danger of not just the breakdown of the rule of law in this new trump term, but a weaponization of the federal law enforcement apparatus against donald trump's perceived political enemies. i'm joined by mary mccord, an nbc legal analyst and director of cy.

as well as carol eonnig, author of "a very stable genius" and i alone can fix it." thank you for being with us. carol, let's start by talking about kash patel. he's been in trump's orbit for some time. he does that thing that people who get appointments into trump's administration do, they postulate ideas, and patel says he's going after trump's perceived enemies in media, the government, his critics, the prosecutors. that's sort of his main mission. talk to me about a bit about kash patel. >> first off, i want to say that i think you hit the nail on the head in describing kas h patel' pick by donald trump as the most dramatic -- by the president-elect, to signal, you know, a huge roil, as you said, of federal agencies.

kash patel has been -- we talk a lot about loyalists in donald trump's orbit but he may be loyalist number one or number two in terms of how much he has been by donald trump's side and echoing and co-signing essentially every conspiracy theory donald trump has promulgated. the first was, remember, he pushed -- he was the author of the nunez memo. he was a staffer for congressman nunez and wrote a memo explaining how the claims of investigating russian operatives communications with trump campaign operatives was totally illegal and appropriate and kind of tried to undermine the claim underneath this entire investigation. it was a stretch. patel's argument. he changed a few things to make this argument. so, that was the very beginning. but his loyalism went on and on and on.

he also was at donald trump's side during his new york trial on business fraud claims. he was also with donald trump insisting that the fbi had been weaponized to attack him. lease talk a little bit, al, about what kash patel has said he will do if he gets inside the fbi or if he gets inside an important position. he's talked about the need to close down the hoover building, the fbi headquarters, and make it a museum to what he calls the deep state, the politically weaponized agents of the fbi. he's talked about the need to reduce the side of the fbi, that 7,000 people is too many. he's talked about how the fbi gets into all sorts of trouble, political trouble, politically motivated trouble when it looks into intelligence. yet part of the reason the fbi works so hard on counterintelligence is because of 9/11.

he's saying the fbi should just be cops, go be cops, send them out into the country, the hinterlandses, let them cash drug dealers, but counterintelligence, as i think you'll hear from mary, is a pretty important part about the fbi. >> i'm very happy you brought that up. prior to 9/11 there wasn't a department of homeland security and there are books written about the intelligence that wasn't shared as effectively between the cia, fbi and other intelligence bodies. mary, let's talk about this. one of the things that concerns me, less so than kash patel saying he's going after media and government people, that is very serious and very mccarthy like and very not democratic. we can talk about that. but the fbi's got a job to do. his historically it has been on the job or not on the job. and it can be criticized for that or not. the fact is if you devote that kind of energy to cleaning house, that may be energy that's not going to some serious

national security issues and threats. >> there's no question about it. after 9/11 famously the wall was taken down between our intelligence community and our fbi doing criminal investigations. that was because it was perceived, i think, rightly, in the 9/11 commission revealed this, that not sharing information put americans at risk. it put our safety here in the homeland at risk. that, of course, came to pass on 9/11. let's just look at one example when it comes to kash patel. with respect to the mar-a-lago investigation and the the prosecution that has now been dismissed for donald trump, that prosecution for mishandling of classified information, kash patel rushed to donald trump's side to say he had witnessed donald trump declassify in bulk information before he left the

white house. therefore, donald trump couldn't be prosecuted for mishandling classified information. first off, others within the white house dispute the factual accuracy of that. there's no records or nothing other than kash patel saying this and some of donald trump's other allies saying this. there's no evidence that took place. but even assuming otherwise, can you imagine a person like kash patel has worked at department of justice, other national security positions briefly but still has worked in them, why would he even as a matter of national security want to suggest it would be acceptable to, in bulk, declassified reams and reams of intelligence information. the danger to our national security from this kind of bulk declassification really can't be emphasized enough. what will our allies think if he is the head of the fbi. what will those who share counterintelligence and counterterrorism information

with with the u.s., they will not be able to trust the fbi as an entity to fulfill its national security role. so, i think beyond the danger to public safety which is significant here in the homeland, we also have this national security threat. >> carol, this is another very important point and it -- some may apply to tulsi gabbard, too, but in order to get these positions confirmed, kash patel has to go before the senate judiciary committee and some people might have very specific concerns that mary talked about. there's actually a potential increased danger. so, while they may be critics of the fbi and there may be reasons to reform the fbi, there probably always are reasons to reform these government institutions, there is a potential danger that extends beyond this that some republican senators may feel is a bridge too far. ed. >> absolutely there are senators now, whether quietly or a little

more noisily on concerned about that exact thing. our alliances are part of the mosaic, the web that keeps this country safe. without five eyes, without those people trusting us to keep their secrets, to protect their operatives and protect their intelligence-gathering sources and methods, why in the world would they help us figure out what's going on in iran. why in the world would they help us figure out what's happening in china or north korea. there are places and physical locations, we won't get into it on a public television program, but, you know, there are important assets that we don't control and they are foreign controlled. we need that cooperation. there's one other thing i'd add to this, ali. it isn't just democratic senators who are concerned about this. remember, republicans who served with donald trump, who wanted to see his agenda delivered, were

concerned about this particular person being in positions of high authority. at the national security council, at the cia, at the fbi when donald trump wanted to fire chris wray and his deputy and install kash patel as deputy director. they're concerned about his temperament and his experience. and the loyalism that he has for trump, kind of no pun intended, trump's everything. and you need, in this kind of job, a lot of republicans and senators are saying, this is a worry. you can't have loyalism be the guide for the premiere law enforcement agency in the country. >> thanks to both of you. i appreciate your analysis. mary mccord, an msnbc legal analyst, and carol leonnig, from "the washington post." an escalating situation in the middle east right now as syrian rebels advance after seizing control of most of the

country's largest city of aleppo. what all of this means for tightening tensions in the region. a live report next. a live report next

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days into a new and unexpected offensive, rebel forces in syria have captured control of most of the city of aleppo in addition to several towns in the provinces of aleppo, idlib and hama. this marks the first escalation in years in syria's 13-year-long civil war, which has been mostly dormant since a cease-fire in 2020 halted years of bloody hostilities. the war, being waged between a loosely tied together group of rebel faxes, some of which are backed by islamic militants, some by turkey, some by the united states and some by some regional arab states against the syrian government's bar shar al

assad's regime, which is backed by russia and iran. it's caused a major migrant crisis across the region and into europe. fighting came to a head in 2016 during the months long deadly and destructive battle for the city of aleppo, which was ultimately won by assad following a prolonged siege of the city, which included the use of chemical weapons and russian air strikes, and which destroyed most of that ancient and beautiful city. now russia's defense ministry says it is again carrying out air strikes in support of syria's military. joining me from jerusalem is hala gorani. we have you on double duty. this one has caught a lot of people by surprise. what is going on in syria and why is it happening now? >> reporter: right. this was a lightning attack by these rebel factions. you described them very well, ali. there is one faction in particular that really led this

charge. it's hts, this was a militant group that was an al qaeda offshoot that then broke its link with al qaeda and has been in control of large portions of the territory in idlib province. essentially what's going on is hezbollah has weakened because as our viewers well know, israel has taken out its entire leadership practically. iran is on the back foot and russia is preoccupied in ukraine. these rebels saw an opportunity to move on aleppo. i don't think that even some of their backers believed that they would be able to take the entire city in 24 to 48 hours. they were posing in front of aleppo citadel, which you just showed on your screen there. that is the very heart, the very center of old aleppo where there were some ferocious battles in 2016. now, i've been in touch with people inside aleppo, which is

syria's second largest city. they tell me the city is calm, that rebels are milling around, that there are some checkpoints. essentially, that they're leaving civilians alone. the big fear, though, now is for minority communities, christians, for example, that have aligned themselves with bashar al assad because of their fear of alarmist groups. they are terrified these islamic groups, despite the leader of hst is assuring people they will respect religious diversity, they are terrified they will be targeted. the other big concern, and that concern has started playing itself out already, is that the regime and its russian backers will start bombing rebel positions once again. and those rebel positions, if they are inside densely civilian -- densely populated civilian areas, that doesn't really matter to the russian air force and regime of bashar al assad. when they do that, they kill

scores of civilians in the process. it's a high-risk moment for the country and the regime of bashar al assad right now, which is a main, main conduit for hezbollah, between hezbollah and iran for weapons and supplies, that regime must be very worried right now for its safety. ali? >> thank you for your great analysis. nbc news correspondent, hala gorani from jerusalem. i'll talk to the former ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul, we'll talk about a potential peace deal to end russia's deal in ukraine and how that war is complicating the situation in syria. situation in syria liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. cool right? look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti...

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in a new interview with sky news' tu wart ramsey, volodymyr zelenskyy says he's open to

ceding territory to russia, at least temporarily as terms of a cease-fire, if the rest of the country is taken under the umbrella of nato. >> if we want to stop the hot stage of the war, we should take under nato umbrella the territory of ukraine that we have under our control. that's what we need to do fast. then ukraine can get back the other part of its territory diplomatically. >> this comes as president-elect donald trump who recently promised to end the war in 24 hours, has named keith kellogg as special envoy to ukraine and russia. kellogg is a retired lieutenant general, former national security adviser to trump, former national security adviser to then vice president mike pence and a former fox news contributor. and coauthored a paper in april for the pro-trump america first policy institute in which he

argued the u.s. should strongarm ukraine and russia into entering peace negotiations and there should be a cease-fire along with a demilitarized zone between the two countries. kellogg's paper argued ukraine would need to give up nato aspirations, at least for now. joining me is the former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul, from stanford university, an msnbc international affairs analyst and author of several important books, including from "cold war to hot peace: an american ambassador in putin's russia." thank you for being with us. i would love to get your take on this developing position for volodymyr zelenskyy because until now, generally speaking, in and around the ukrainian government apparatus, the idea of ceding, even temporarily, any

land has not been on the table but this new idea of putting ukraine under nato umbrella is interesting. what do you think of it? >> publicly president zelenskyy has never said it, you're right. but private for for months now the zelenskyy government is getting ready for what they call plan b. president trump winning re-elections. they understand things are going to change and so you're seeing his position changing. he understands there is going to be pressure for some negotiations. what they don't like is all the pressure is on him and none on putin, by the way. it will be interesting when the trump teams finally gets to talk about some day what they're going to do to pressure putin, but zelenskyy's trying to change the conversation here. he's trying to say, okay, we may for a while, like he says, not try to reunite our country through military means but in return, we have to be in nato. the reason that is so vital to him is without being a member of

nato, he believes, and i think he's right about this, that if there is a cease-fire, it will only be a temporary cease-fire. we already saw that. there was one in 2014, they invaded in 2022. the only way to get out of that future is nato membership. >> ambassador, riddle me this, vladimir putin has said sips the beginning of the war and prior to this and, by the way, tulsi gabbard agrees with him, that the west pressured russia into this war by encroaching, taking all these former russian satellites and making them nato countries. putting aside the fact that vladimir putin will want no part of such an arrangement, is it conceivable nato might say, not a bad deal, we'll take the rest of ukraine in and deal with the disputed parts later. is that even conceivable that that could happen? >> yes. if european leaders want peace in europe, this is the only way to have peace in europe.

and i think we should remember other historical moementsd. west germany, they eventually joined nato. stalin and all the people said the same thing, if you do this, it will lead to world war iii. it did not. south korea did the same thing in 1953. they had to agree to try to not reunify their country through military force in return for signing a treaty -- a security treaty with the united states. and it's a bad outcome. the country is still divided but it's a much better outcome than a continued war. and the notion that putin somehow will not accept this, i completely disagree. first of all, he doesn't get a veto. he doesn't sit in brussels. he won't sit at the table when they are meeting to do this. we should remember that. second, the day the war ends, that will be his greatest day. he'll be talking about victory, how he's expanded victory and the empire.

xi jinping will show up for a parade on are the red square. i think zelenskyy has a rather brilliant idea. and brilliant for trump. if trump wants a lasting peace, not a peace he negotiated with the taliban, this is an outcome that would be stable and enduring and he would get the credit for it. >> i'm glad we've had this conversation because i've been looking for and waiting for your analysis on this. i always appreciate it. ambassador michael mcfaul, former united states ambassador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst. coming up, walmart the latest major company to roll back diversity, equality and inclusion efforts in the wake of george floyd. why so many companies are bowing to public pressure to rein in dei and why some others are not. . these are the moments that make up the story of your life. but, as you get older, your risk of missing those moments

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this week the nation's largest private employer and biggest retail company, walmart, announced it would roll back many of the diversity, equity and inclusion policies that it had announced in recent years. walmart executives say the company will no longer use the term dei, will no longer engage employees in racial equity training, will no longer provide data to the human rights campaign corporate quality index and will not renew funding for the racial equity center, a $100 million initiative from the walmart foundation that started in the summer of 2020. the news about walmart's news was broken by this guy, robby star starbuck, an anti-dei activist. he worked as a music producer in los angeles before becoming a trump backer. he produces documentaries for followers. he has taken to his popular social media account to call out corporations that have diversity and inclusion policies and taken credit when those corporations

roll back their commitments. he has made videos about tractor supply, john deere, jack daniels, harley-davidson and more, targeting customers whose customers tend to live in more conservative areas for holding bias training or inclusive healiath ves. many corporate dei programs, including walmart's and john deere were publicly ramped up in 2020. tractor supply followed, harley-davidson did have a diversity program prior to 2020 but that summer dropped a dealer for making disparaging comments against black lives matter and released a company statement on fighting racism across society. following the police killing of george floyd and the wave of racial justice protests that spread across the country that summer, corporate america seemed to want to show that it was listening and learning. later that year job listings for

diversity and inclusion related positions shot up by 123%, according to indeed, a popular job site. but then came the inevitable online backlash from conservatives. those big corporate dei departments began to shrink. microsoft laid off an internal dei team in july and they wrote to employees, dei programs everywhere are no longer business critical or smart as they were in 2020, end quote. last year microsoft received a letter from 13 republican attorneys general urging them to slash their dei initiatives. zoom laid off its dei team in february, which launched in the summer of 2020. wayfair downsized its dei team by 50%, according to data from workplace analytics company. it's worth noting that tech companies shed their dei teams, in many cases in part of companywide layoffs.

but public pressure from the robby starbucks of the world is not the only force currently working against diversity and inclusion policies. bloomberg is reporting that, quote, corporate america is bracing for dei's death, end quote, since trump's elections win. trump has promised to ban diversity initiatives via executive order on his first day in office. anti-dei laws have been introduced in at least 30 states and signed into law in ten states, according to account by chronicle of higher education, which is an education news site. the supreme court's decision in 2023 to ban affirmative action has inspired conservative legal groups to file hundreds of lawsuits against law firms, government agencies and educational institutions for their diversity and equity goals, often citing reverse discrimination. now, despite all this, an analysis of 902 large publicly traded companies by "the wall street journal" and the drucker institute show that companies

with dedicated dei staff do better in customer satisfaction, in innovation, and in employee engagement. despite losing some ground in the court of public opinion over the past 18 months, a majority of americans still see dei as a good thing, according to pew research. 52%. it's down from 56% in 2023. and it's important to note not all dei programs are so vulnerable to public pressure campaigns. meier, for example, is another large company that launched specific diversity programs in 2020. in 2008 meier was one of the worst places for lgbtq plus employees and customers in the country. it scored a zero on their corporate equality index. but they amended company policies and has fully rebounded. hrc now gives it a perfect score. it also committed to supplier diversity, one of the many

policies that walmart has backed away from this week. buying goods from companies that are majority owned by women, minorities or disabled people or members of the lgbtq plus community. simultaneously, meier is expanding, opening new stores, groiing its business. diversity and inclusion programs are good for business and they do work, but they are more likely to last when they're enacted by a company that means it when they say that they want to have a diverse workplace or to create more able leadership structures. perhaps this is what is behind meier's success and perhaps the difference between meier and companies whose diversity efforts seem more vulnerable to political pressure is they launched these policies with less fanfare and more deliberation. harvard business review wrote, what matters is how an

organization harnesses diversity and whether it's willing to reshape its power structure, end quote. whether it's willing to reshape its power treasure. after the break, i'll be joined by two experts on diversity, gender and policy to discuss where dei goes from here. scuss where dei goes from here asthma. does it have you missing out on what you love, with who you love? get back to better breathing with fasenra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems. serious allergic reactions may occur. get help for swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens or you have a parasitic infection. headache and sore throat may occur. ask your doctor if fasenra is right for you.

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of gender and politics at royal holloway university of london, director of the school's gender institute and ada, vice dean for faculty and diversity at washington university in st. louis and author of the book "gray areas: how the way we work perpetuates racism and what we can do to fix it." i'm fully prepared to have you two expert guests poke a lot of holes in this thesis i've postulated here. jennifer, i'll start with you, in that dei -- if you don't like dei, it's like not liky puppy dogs and apple pie. diversity, equity and inclusion is not complicated but when it's done in a more deliberate matter sometimes it may succeed better because you don't get the attention of the lunatics trying to dismantle it. i don't know. does that make sense? >> first of all, thank you for having me. on the question of apple pie, i think you can make an argument here because diversity, equity and inclusion, although the right ps to focus on gender and

race and ethnicity because these are particular boogiemen for them and dei is absolutely concerned with gender, ethnic and racial diversity it's also about diversity across many axes, veteran status, age, sexuality, people with caring responsibilities and disability also very important. there is a broad swath of americans who have different identities, all of whom benefit from having workplaces inclusive to them. on the second part of the performative, there are so many companies that are doing the work of being more inclusive across the board and all these different identities without making big, splashy headlines about it. even if you're making big, splashy headlines about it, the way to do the work is slowly, surely, over time, not just when the political moment, such as the black lives matters march in 2020 called for it. those are the companies where it's successful, it's built into the corporate culture and, perhaps, has a bit of this apple

pie quality you mentioned. >> i don't want to be pollyanna about this, but in europe there's been a longer effort to try to deal with some of these things in corporations, in boards, perhaps the words don't have the same lightning rod affiliations that they have in america. but tell me why you think this is happening the way it is in america and whether -- is europe somewhere to look to say better examples? >> i don't know that i would necessarily say that. i think america is certainly a unique place and i think we have a long history of backsliding. we make examples and efforts towards racial progress. i don't know necessarily that europe is a leader in this area. no shade to europe. but i do think there are opportunities available for companies to really dig in and to stay focused on the bigger picture. to me, the bigger picture is this, we are a rapidly diversifying country that's not going to change any time soon. companies really do themselves a disservice when they move away from the focus on where the

country is going and the opportunities to welcome and to include all members of society into organizations and into work opportunities. >> so, let's go back to that, jennifer. bottom line is, we've seen studies that indicate, generally speaking, if you are more representative of both your workforce and your stakeholders, including your customers, these companies do better. why is the public pressure, the robby starbucks of the world, why are they having more influence in that moment? because companies like meier, and there are many, many others, that the one study i cited cited 90 large public companies. companies do do better when they consider themselves more diverse and more equal. why bow to the pressure? >> let's first talk about why do they do better? that's really important to understand. because one of the things that when companies take diversity seriously, is they broaden the talent pool. they think about recruiting not just for lower level but

especially for higher level positions beyond the networks they've usually looked. they look to people traditionally different from how ceos or c-suite executives have usually looked. the reason they perform better is in diversifying the talent pool, they draw more talent in. these arguments you hear from the right, you hear from the robby starbucks type that dei is counter to merit, they sound good, but they're actually completely backwards. they get the facts completely wrong. dei is about broadening your talent pool for who you're putting in positions of power. that's why companies are successful because they develop better business strategies when they draw on the talents of all americans. >> that's where we're stalk, right? this argument that any of these, affirmative action quotas, dei, all of these are counter to merit. i imagine we can all find a handful of examples in which there have been instances where someone has been hired counter

to merit because of initiative but the rest of society doesn't bear that out perform the rest of examples do not bear that out. we are stuck on that, at least some people in this country, are stuck on that narrative. how best to fight that? a lot of companies i've talked to say we don't have the energy to fight it. those people like the robby starbucks of the world, invest themselves full time in this and we have a company to run. how do you change the narrative without changing the narrative? >> sure. i would invite people to think a little more deeply about this question of merit, which i think is interesting. the assumption that previously this country where everything was decided on one's own skills and talents rests upon the idea that the most skilled, qualified, brightest people were almost exclusively white men. beggar's belief. that doesn't sound consistent or seem consistent with a broad diverse society we have. that's not really an accurate way of defining merit. if your merit skews in such a way that primarily one racial or

gender group has disproportionately taken all the seats of power and high-ranking roles throughout society. so it's not really accurate we have been this meritccatic society. we have been a society that has systematically had biases in place and structural inequalities in place. by acknowledging those and putting into place policies and initiatives that address those and create opportunities for all to be included, then we are actually moving toward a place where there is more of a likeness towards more of a movement towards meritocacy. everybody has opportunities to be included, everyone has opportunities to compete on a more playing field and more level playing field than if we were systematically excluding certain groups of people. >> jennifer, donald trump has a lot of plans for day one, he will dismantle dei. you can't do that, right? if companies have organic visions about equity and

inclusion, how would he -- what would -- it's different from having an affirmative action policy at a university. it's a different thing because there can be legal controls put on that. but you can't tell a company it would be illegal to be more diverse. >> that's right in the broad sense. federal courts recently kicked back the florida law that tried to ban anti-dei completely. they kicked it back on the grounds that republicans had long fought for in federal law, which is the corporations have the right to freedom of speech. most of the lawsuits, velshi, you mentioned in your introduction are going after these targeted programs, right, so a foundation, say, targets, women owned or minority owned businesses. they're not able yet to go after a program that a private company has, say, around mentorship or diverse recruitment. i think the challenge here or the worry, i would actually say, is that companies are walking by

these initiatives not for fear of a legal challenge or federal obstruction to their work, but perhaps anticipating the trump administration will look more favorably on companies that is towing its preferred line. walmart depends on selling cheap products to their consumers. walmart might be thinking how it would fare under a new china policy, and would trump look more favorably on a walmart that has walked back dei. this is very worrying from a political standpoint. >> that is -- feels like there needs to be a part two, three and four to this conversation. i'm planning it right now. thank you to both of you. i appreciate your time. "inside with jen psaki" begins with right now. welc