tells us that president biden has decided to issue a pardon for his son hunter biden, reversing the president's stance on using executive clemency. i'm melissa murray in for ayman mohyeldin. let's do. just moments ago president joe biden issued a pardon for his son hunter who was found guilty of gun-related charges in delaware and who pled guilty to tax evasion in california. president biden has repeatedly said that he would not use his executive authority to pardon his son or to commute his sentence, but according to exclusive reporting from nbc news the president changed his mind over the thanksgiving weekend and in the last hour the president issued a defiant statement that reads in part, quote, the charges in his cases came about only after several of my political opponents in congress attacked me and opposed

my election and a partially agreed to plea deal unraveled in the courtroom. a number of political opponents in congress taking credit for bringing political pressure the process. had the plea deal held it would have been a fair, reasonable resolution of hunter's cases, end quote. president biden continued, quote, no reasonable person who looks at the facts of hunter's cases can reach any other conclusion than hunter was singled out only because he is my son and that is wrong. hunter has been five and a half years' sober even in the face of unrelenting attacks. in trying to break hunter they want to break me and there is no reason that it would stop here. enough is enough. end quote. this pardon comes ahead of hunter biden's december 12th sentencing on those federal gun charge convicts. hunter biden is set to be sentenced in a separate criminal case that one on december 16th after pleading guilty in september to federal tax evasion

charges. again, there is a lot going on here. biden concluded his statement tonight saying that he, quote, hopes americans will understand why he made this decision as both a president and a father. joining me now to discuss all of this is nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli who is here on air. so, mike, what more do we know? are we getting information about the internal dynamics of this discussion within the biden family in what is the likely fallout going to be in the west wing on monday morning? what's going on? >> well, melissa, you just read from the statement that we received from the president in the last hour, and there are times when the white house issues a statement in the president's name where it was clearly something that had been worked up by his aides and then there are times you can tell where the president has offered his own words and in fact, i would hesitate to suggest that perhaps hunter biden's voice is in this, as well because this statement is so personal, so

direct from the man himself that it really speaks to what has been a heart wrenching ordeal for this entire family not just over the course of the last year as hunter has gone through not one, but two trials, one ultimately was cut short when he decided to plead guilty to those tax-related charges, but over the course of the last six years, when the president decided to run for president in 2019, it was only after the family had a heart to heart conversation with each other about whether they were prepared for everything that might follow including the fact that the then president donald trump might weaponize the family and go after hunter biden, in particular. that was the decision they ultimately made to go forward together, despite that. over the course of the past year we've seen the president at times through his spokespersons as well repeatedly saying they would not issue a pardon for his son, but the conversations that are happening within the west wing are different than the conversations between father and

son. first and foremost the president was concerned over whether doing this was something that was his son's desire, as well? was this something that would be good as his son has been on this long road to recovery from addiction, an addiction that deepened and became much more serious after the death of his brother, the president's son beau biden, and the fact that this comes after the thanksgiving holiday is really so telling in the biden story. the president has been going to nantucket with his family, with hunter and beau specifically since just the year after he lost his first wife and his infant daughter that happened at the start of his political career. now as the president is ending his political appear this was solidified by what was an intimate gathering of the family in nantucket over the last few days including the extended family, but just now. >> sorry, mike. we also have seenior investigative reporter and she is joining us by phone.

sarah, mike just mentioned that this likely was a decision reached by the family over thanksgiving in nantucket, a very intimate gathering of the family. what have you learned about those discussions among the biden family and how all of this played out and this decision ultimately came about? >> so, we know that these discussions have been very private, very close to the vest. they have been essentially locked down in nantucket and really just focusing as a family, kind of on these discussions and been a very, very private way and not even the president's closest aides were fully informed about what was transpiring. we learned in our reporting tonight that we published tonight we mentioned that the president did discuss the possibility of pardoning his son after his conviction on gun charges in june and that there was a discussion about the possibility of pardoning even

though he had publicly said that he would not do it. with that option, it was in some ways in the president's mind always on the table although, to be clear, hunter biden's legal team continued to prepare for a second trial that he was set to go to trial for in september and ultimately the morning that the jury selection was about to start hunter biden showed up in court and surprised everyone by saying that he had made the decision to plead guilty. hunter's legal team had also been preparing for a sentencing, but i think we had a real hint, if not that the president would make this decision, but at least that there was -- he had -- he was perhaps being given important talking points, important things to consider. yesterday, you know, just a little over 24 hours ago hunter

biden's attorney abbe lowell put out a white paper, a 52-page document which kind of summarized the key arguments and laid out a narrative as well as a time line and it was called the political prosecutions of hunter biden and essentially this document was a very detailed, primarily all information that was already in the public domain from court filings to even president trump's tweets, but laying out how the hunter biden legal team viewed his two criminal cases and the various steps over the last five years that kind of put him in this particular position. so i think the timing is somewhat significant. yesterday hunter biden's attorney would not respond to repeated questions about if this document had made its way to the president or if this document had made it to the white house, and so i think it is safe to say

that some of these arguments that -- that the -- you know, that hunter biden's lawyers felt that this was an unusual and improper prosecution of the president's son that probably would not have occurred if his name was hunter biden. i think that probably was a major factor in the president's decisions making. >> sarah, can i ask, do you think it's likely that the family discussed the lit cal consequences of this decision, as they made the decision to have the president issue this pardon for his son? >> look, i think these are very, very private conversations. however, i think that this is a family that is always, you know, considering what those implications may be, and it's not just the implications for the president and his legacy. it is also the implications for hunter biden, hunter biden's safety and there was an awareness among everyone that this pardon could -- the

potential of this pardon could really cut either way. would it -- it would prevent hunter biden from having to potentially serve a very significant amount of jail time. however, i think there was also a consideration that would this potentially put a target on his back. the special counsel, david weiss is a trump-appointed special counsel. there has been no -- we have been recording extensively on what the plans are and will that special counsel continue in a trump administration? could there be other charges or other a temps to go after the biden family including hunter biden. this was not as simple as, could this potentially kasz a gritter political firestorm, and i thinkity matly the decision you

see as a father. >> thanks so much for that insight, sarah, and great reporting. we will go now to hs nbc legal analyst danny cevallos. how is this pardon decision going to play in the court of public opinion? >> it's going to play poorly and really it's going to play poorly because of biden's statement not because of the pardon. look, months and months ago i said the president will pardon hunter by then on his last day in office and folks said no, he said he's not going do that. and to that i said yes, but it's his son. he'll commute a sentence and commuting say lesser form of the pardon where you essentially shorten somebody's sentence and usually when they've already served team. let's talk about this. at the time i said no, he's going to get's full pardon. it's his son, and it may not be

right, but it's what i would do, it's what you would do and what i believe almost anybody would do. this has been going with the bill clinton pardoning his half brother and pardoning jared kushner's father. the pardon power isn't used as much as it should be, but unfortunately for me as a criminal defense attorney it doesn't make me feel that much better that i see the people who do get the benefit of executive clemency are the president's son or jared kushner's father, but that's why, and i'm glad you brought up the other point which is there is the presidential high-profile process where a president can tweet or make an announcement and completely and fully pardon someone, but there's an office of the pardon attorney where typically have to's ply. and usually they've been

convicted. this is not the normal process, but just because the executive branch has set up this process doesn't mean the president has to follow the pardon power. since its inception the framers envisioned this. it is one of the broadest, if not the broadest, the plenary, unfettered power of the president. it can't be reviewed. it cannot be stopped. this is over. >> i love that you used plenary. it warmed the cockles of my law professor heart. i want to point out, danny, this this full -- that he committed or may have committed in january 1 through december 31, 2024, and almost a 10-year span. she said that the family whether or not would have put a target on the hunt hbo's bank on him by the trump administration as it comes into power january 20,

twbt 25. this is a ridings lace of tim that would to be after december 2024. so so after hubtser biden keeps his nose out he's out of the woods. >> like i said, the pardon power knows almost no scriptures. you can't pardon future crime like what would be a license to go commit crime. you can pardon something that happened, and it could be any and all conduct, forever and ever, amen. by the ten-year limitation and that's pretty darn broad and it makes sense if the president's going to pardon his son, go big or go home. make it a broad, expansive power to protect him from future prosecution whether you think it's righteous or not.

you might as well, because if you make it narrow, yes. you get someone on the other side and the incoming administration who thinks it's that bad then they may look into hunter biden. so if you're going to protect him then you've got to protect him and that's exactly what the president is doing here. >> what do you of the tone of this statement. it turns intimate. he talks about his love of a son as a father, but it's also incredibly defiant talking about the attacks on hbo as effort, and is there a pri president that there's nothing left in the tank and he's deifing it on the dance floor? >> that's a good point. the president isn't concerned about about the politics of it andy say that because it wasn't a very nicely worded statement. i would have said i pardon my son fully and completely from

this date to this date, but this explanation that it was not a righteous prosecution, not a good look. >> thanks so much for that, danny. we will be back with much more on this breaking news. president biden deciding to issue a pardon for his son hunter biden after saying he would not all after this. stay with us. g he

welcome back. we continue our breaking news coverage tonight. nbc news was the first to report that president joe biden has issued a pardon for his son hunter was found guilty of gun-related charges in delaware, who also pled guilty to tax evasion in california. during the campaign the president was adamant that he would not use his executive authority to pardon his son or commute his sentence, but the president changed his mind over the holiday weekend and tonight he issued a defiant statement announcing hunter's pardon and referring to his son's prosecution as politically motivated and selective. let's go back to nbc news white

house correspondent mike memoli. mike, what are you hearing inside the west wing and at the white house? how are they prepare for example what is likely to be a busy news day tomorrow? >> well, what's interesting about this is i think this news came as a shock to most of the white house staff and in pack, it's also worth noting that the president is going to in about an hour and a half leave the white house, travel to andrews air force base and then fly to angola. he's scheduled to hold the last likely foreign trip of his time in office, an important long-delayed trip to the subcontinent of africa that he has promised to visit. so this certainly will overshadow that trip. it also might give us a chance to hear from the president. typically, he at least entertains shouted questions from reporters as he boards air force one. so we'll have that opportunity. we know that as the president, as his close, very close-knit team and of course, his son hunter himself have evaluated whether to take this dramatic step. one of the considerations, of

course, is to try to take away the threat of jail time, the possibility of jail time at one or both of the sentencings for the different charges he was facing and ultimately pled guilty to and was convicted by a jury of the other. the other question, though, the other issue that remains despite this pardon is what will happen on capitol hill and we're getting our first reaction from republicans in the house, in particular, i want to read a statement we just received from the chairman of the house oversight committee james comer who says in part that joe biden was lied from start to finish about his family's corrupt peddling activities. the charges hunter faced were just the tip of the iceberg in the blatant corruption that president biden and the biden family have lied about to the american people. what that rhetoric embedded in is whether or not the justice department under a president trump and under a potential attorney general pam bondi may choose to continue or widen other areas of investigation

that the special counsel, david weissman in the state of delaware had already been looking into including foreign lobbying, we know that republicans in the house that are already holding the gavels now and the senate republicans and the republicans will soon take over the committees when they assume the majority next year can continue to beat this drum. they can continue to hold hearing after hearing. they can subpoena hunter biden to come in. they can try to explore whether there might be other potentially wrongdoing. so on one hand this pardon does take that threat of jail time away, but there are certainly political consequences to come. >> sorry to cut you off, but we have the representative from texas joining us from a plane. there you are, on a plane . what is the democratic caucus saying about regarding hunter biden's pardon? >> i won't speak for the whole caucus, but i will say way to

go, joe. let me be first to congratulate the president, we have a 34-count convicted felon, for anyone who wants to clutch their pearls now because he decided that he was going to pardon his son, i would say take a look in the mirror because we also know that when it comes to this cabinet, this cabinet has more people accused of sexual assault than any incoming cabinet probably in the history of america. so we are living in unprecedented times, and we know that this was completely political as someone who serves on the oversight committee. this was gamesmanship the entire time and we know that this investigation had been taking place for five or six years. we know hunter had accepted responsibility and it was the oversight committee that was pushing to say no, it warrant enough wasn't enough and so the judge decided to reject the plea. considering what took place and considering where we are in this country, i say way to go, joe. >> it sounds like the seatmates

behind you think this is unprecedented to have someone on television while they're boarding a plane. we talked a lot on with you on msnbc programs about the way that african-americans and latinos are often brought up in the drug trade and results in criminal convictions. do you think going forward that this is an opportunity for the president to use this clemency power more broadly? certainly given the kind of criticism he's likely to face, but to expand the array of individuals who are also offered clemency as his term wines down. >> thank you so much for the question because i actually have a letter that i am actually about to push out a lot more widely. this letter is to actually work on the disparities that we've seen specifically for crack cocaine. it is a conversation they started with the attorney general before the election. it was something they wanted to do in the lame duck no matter who won the presidency and so we know that there are people that are still sitting in custody in the federal government, federal

prisons because they were charged with crack cases years and years before the law ever changed and even when the law changed under obama it still was 18 to one disparity. it is time for those people that have been sitting there and had disparity held over their heads and it's nothing, but racism that's drive 10 and it's time to go ahead and have their sentences recalculated. we have the numbers and we know the percentages of people of color. we know the percentages of people that would get out, and so i'm hoping that the president takes us up on it. >> thank you so much for joining us, representative crockett and making time in economy class, no less. thank you. >> can we go back to mike memoli on capitol hill and at the white house? is mike still with us? >> yes. >> you just read from that statement from house representative james comer. does it look like this is an invitation to the house to start doing some more hearings with

hunter biden when they get back in session in the new year. >> this begs the question of giving purpose to hearings that might already have been taking place. one of the interesting dynamics that we have seen criticisms of trump and trump allies during the past four years is the way in which they believe that the former president, and now the president-elect was subject to continued legal and congressional oversight persecution, a politically motivated one. it's very possible that republicans were already considering the ways that in the new congress they might take steps to conduct oversight of the biden administration, of the president, his policies and even his family. so i think certainly what we saw from congressman comer who is a chairman of the oversight committee will continue likely to be so is that they now have further justification for in their view proceeding along those lines. i want to just share with you, melissa, and we in the last moment or so released a new statement from hunter biden himself. obviously, we've heard from his father. now i want to read from you the

statement from hunter biden himself. he says in the statement i have admitted and taken responsibility for my mistakes during the darkest days of my addiction. mistakes that have been exploited to publicly humiliate and shame me and my family for political sport. despite all of this, i have maintained my sobriety for more than five years because of my deep faith and the unwavering love and support of my family and friends. in the throws of addiction i squandered many opportunities and advantages in recovery we can be given the opportunity to make amends where possible and rebuild our lives if we never take for granted the mercy that we have been afforded. hunter concludes i will never take the clemency i was given today for granted and will devote the life i have rebuilt to help those sick and suffering. those are the first words we're hearing tonight from hunter biden himself. over the course of reading that statement i am struck by the intersection of the president's son's legal woes and the

political dynamic on capitol hill. we reported in the past was watching closely when his son, for instance, appeared in a congressional hearing room when those very committees were holding hearings about him. he was very proud of the fact that his son was willing to sort of stand up for himself, and so i think it mixed with all of the emotions and all of the considerations of the political future and the legal future is an element of pride between father and son in this moment of more than anything, seeing him in this process of recovery which we know continues. it is not something that ends. it is an ongoing process and they're hopeful that this is a continued step in the right direction. >> that's mike memoli at the white house. we will take a quick break and be back with this breaking news with hunter biden just after this. news with hunter biden just after this ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ ask your doctor about farxiga. speaker: who's coming in the driveway?

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welcome back. we continue our breaking news coverage. earlier this evening, president joe biden issued a pardon for his son hunter who was found guilty of gun-related charges in

delaware and who pleaded guilty to tax e vagsz invasion in cali. a notice hads s been filed in delaware. the president's pardon moots the pardon and entering judgment in this case and requires an automatic dismissal of the indictment with prejudice, they write in each file filing. president biden has said repeatedly that he will not use his executive authority to pardon his son or to commute his sennence, but as first reported tonight by nbc news the president changed his mind over the thanksgiving weekend and in the last hour he issued a statement that was both defiant and deeply personal. the statement reads in part, quote, no reasonable person who looks at the facts of hunter's cases can reach any other conclusion than hunter was singled out only because he is my son and that was wrong. there has been an effort to break hunter who has been five and a half years sober even in

the face of selective prosecution. in trying to break hunter they've tried to the break me and there's no reason to believe it will stop here. enough is enough. end quote. this pardon comes ahead of hunter biden's december 12th sentencing for his conviction of federal gun charges. biden is also set to be sentenced in a separate criminal case, that one on december 16th after pleading guilty in september on federal tax e vak charges. i am being joined now by carol lam an msnbc legal analyst for the southern district of california. carol, let's talk about these pardons. obviously, the pardons -- the pardon is very broad. it not only covers the california tax evasion case as well as the delaware gun-related charges, but these are only for federal crimes and only within that ten-year period. is there a possibility that some trump-directed governor maybe not in delaware, maybe not in california, but somewhere in the united states might prosecute hunter biden going forward for other charges in another

jurisdiction at the state level which would not be covered by a presidential pardon? >> right. >> you rightly point out that the constitutional pardon power that the president of the united states has covered only federal crimes and federal prosecutions and federal sentences and that doesn't apply to state cases and that's why you see in the case of donald trump, the new york state prosecution continues and will continue on, but in this case it is a broad -- it's a pretty broad ten-year coverage for hunter biden on the federal side, but yes, if a state wanted to come forward and prosecute hunter biden they being, but i think odds of that are fairly slim. most states have sort of a five-year statute of limitations and mostly six-year statute of limitations so they would have to gin up a grand jury and an investigation and bring any charges related to these charges fairly quickly. >> all right. it's unlikely to happen at the state level.

what does seem more likely given statements from republicans on capitol hill that there may be more congressional attention paid to hunter biden. what's the likelihood that we see more congressional investigations, congressional hearings on this matter as we go into the new congress in january. >> we might see some of that, but frankly, hunter biden does not seem to be someone who is cowed by congressional investigations. he's sort of -- was fairly -- he was fairly antagonistic, i would say, with respect to the congressional hearings. he showed up for one and said he wasn't going to testify and that sort of thing, but the criminal convictions, you know, that follows the process, and i don't think there's a lot of juice that can be gotten out of these criminal convictions in congressional hearings because he was convicted of one charge and he pled guilty to the tax charges. so there isn't a question of

actually what happened anymore. we know what happened. i think it's likely to be just more of a smearing that you're a bad person and so you must have done other bad things. >> we certainly heard that before and joining us now to talk about the rhetoric on capitol hill with regard to hunter biden is congressman joe walsh. welcome. what do you make of this? what is likely to be the response on capitol hill to this breaking news? >> good to be with you. >> see? i told you so. they're all like that so the next time any of us complain about anything trump does, this -- this pardon is just deflating. for those of us who have been out there for a few years now yelling about what a unique threat donald trump is, for joe biden to do something like this, trump -- nobody's above the law, we've been screaming. well joe biden just made clear

his son hunter is above the law. donald trump lies every time he opens his mouth, we've been screaming. joe biden repeatedly lied about this. the politicization of the justice system, donald trump and his people have been screaming. that's exactly what biden said here. >> joe, is this a politics of purity. we had donald trump pardon sheriff joe arpaio during his term and there was not a lot of a cry about that and this was a father who saw his first wife killed, his daughter killed in a car crash. his two young sons survive, one goes on to r have real difficulties with a ddiction an another died. i would have put good money on this happening. are many people going to be surprised that a father who is also the president would do this for his son?

>> i don't know pa people would be surprised because you're right, joe biden repeatedly said he wouldn't do this so he repeatedly lied, but this just furthers the cynicism that people have about politics, and that cynicism strengthens trump because trump can just say i'm not a unique threat. everybody does this. if i do something for my kid, my son-in-law, look, joe biden does the same thing. i get it, but this was a selfish move by biden which politically only strengthens trump. it's just deflating. >> all right. joe walsh, a big hot take, and we'll stay with us. you also at home stay with us and we'll have much more on this breaking news right after this. s breaking news right after this grab bounty. (♪♪) bounty is made to be stronger... ...and more absorbent. so, while ordinary brands can't hold up, one sheet of bounty keeps working,

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breaking news. president biden has decided to issue a pardon for his son hunter biden reversing the president's stance on using his executive authority for that purpose. joining me now to discuss all of this and more is msnbc justice and legal affairs analyst anthony coley. anthony, welcome back. >> melissa, good to see you. >> joe walsh just came in hot with a very hot take. this is a deflating pardon that this essentially makes the biden administration look worse than what they have accused the trump administration and the trump campaign of doing. what's your take on this? is this an understandable move from a president who is also a

father or is this more there? >> i strongly disagree. in the midst of a story of a father's unconditional love for his son, melissa and it is absolutely justified. if we were to step back and look at the people that donald trump is appointing or plans to appoint and nominate to the highest levels of the justice department, i'm talking about kash patel to the fbi. the lead investigative agency of our nation's federal government apparatus to the attorney general of the united states, somebody who herself pam bondi, is an election denier. what this means is that he is putting place people who disregard facts, who disregard the law --? anthony, let me sprupt you for for a minute -- >> what's that? >> that is all true and we were talking about kash patel before

this news broke, but in making after this pardon after disclaiming the prospect of a pardon for his son how has president biden made it difficult for republicans or for independent republicans in the senate and democrats in the senate to oppose some of these nominations including kash patel's? >> well, listen, the reason he is degree it is because donald trump is -- is putting the pieces in place to make good on his threates to weaponize the justice department. my question to any of these people, melissa is how and why would you leave your own son exposed legally when you see what these republicans are doing and the pieces that they are putting place to weaponize the justice department in a way that it's never been done before in our nation's history. and so, you know, joe biden did the right thing. i think personally i probably would have waited until after the sentences were hanned down in both of these cases in

mid-december, but listen, i didn't disagree with the akd at all and quite frankly, i'm glad he did it considering what our nation did to the justice system. >> if the president does get this on capitol hill what should the plan be. we talked about this all night, the clemency power is woefully under utilizeded. there are thousands of individuals who are currently incarcerated in federal prisons for drug crimes and non-violent drug offenses. is this an opportunity for the biden administration to make a real statement about the clemency power and expand the scope of its use beyond hunter biden and to other individuals who might not have the opportunity? >> i suspect we are firmly in the christmas and holiday season so i suspect before this is all over, said and done what we will see how long people who have -- in many instances have repaid

their debt to society. and that's what we tend to see at the end of any presidential administration. my whole -- to your broader question about what happens in congress. this is all -- it will be political posturing, right? whatever republicans decide to do in the house and senate judiciary committee or oversight committee, hunter biden knows how to -- how to comport himself in front of both of those, in front of both of those, but now, rightly, jail is off the table for him. >> all right. okay. anthony, lots of great information here. thank you so much. we are going to take a quick break and be back on this breaking news after this. breaking news after this we're i. everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. and you have this dream every night?

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welcome back. breaking news. president joe biden has issued a pardon for his son hunter biden, and we've just received a statement from stephen cheung

from the trump campaign. the failed witch hunts have proven that the democrat-controlled doj and other radicalized the justice system. due process must be restored for all americans which is exactly what president trump will do as he returns to the white house with an overwhelming mandate from the american people. end quote. my next guest is someone who is very familiar with the first family. joining me now is michael derosa, former press secretary to first lady jill biden. thanks for joining us on this very short notice on this night of breaking news. again, the president repeatedly disclaimed the pros pekts of using executive clemens toe pardon his son hunter biden and now he has and there will likely be criticism on capitol hill for that. why make the statement that he would not do this in the first place and then ultimately turn around and do it? i think most people would have understood if he as a father chose to pardon his son under

these circumstances? >> yeah, and i do understand the frustration that congressman walsh is talking about or speaking from. you know, we really at the biden campaign in 2020 and the white house, we always held ourselves to a much higher standard. at the same time, it's important to remember that when we talk about the weaponization of government, hunter biden specifically is ground zero for the weaponization of government. i mean, this is a very non-politically active son at the time of a former vice president who is seen as the main threat to the sitting president. so what did they do? they appointed prosecutors who took five years, longer than the monica lewinsky-ken starr investigation to come up with a first-time gun offense, a gun he

never loaded and owned for 11 days and a first-time tax offense for which he paid that in full with penalty and interest the way most americans -- many americans do because millions of americans don't pay their taxes on time, as well. so the politicalization and the weaponization of family is really a can of worms. i think the republicans have opened up on a political front that i think they're going come to regret because now they're putting family in play. they're putting in-laws in play, and they're putting children and kids and grandkids of elected leaders in play, and i don't know how they're going to put that back. >> you make a good point and certainly before these federal prosecutions there was discussion of hunter biden's business transactions in ukraine with burisma, and this is someone who was in the news for a while and has been the target

of a lot of inquiries and attention. >> sure. >> of course, the pardon power has been use by other presidents, bill clinton with roger clinton. >> oh, sure. let's talk about jared trump. his son-in-law's father and three campaign advisers and people who were convicted of war crimes, of murder in iraq. he pardoned all of them. so to be having this conversation right now, look, i think it's important what the president did. i'm always weary of timing and politics and whether he should have been so adamant in the first place, and if you want to pardon him, however, we can't sit by and let these double standards just go by and these crimes would never have been investigated at the federal level by the justice department or his last name not biden. >> you had a front-row seat to

the biden family over the last few years. what were these discussions within the biden family likely at thanksgiving and how did this go down? quickly. >> look, these are painful discussions. they raised their family at a point in politics through the '70s, '80s and '90s where there was civility in politics. this has been a hellish experience for the biden family for five years. i'm just glad that this thanksgiving they can now put this behind them finally for the first time in five years. >> all right. michael la rosa, lots to say here. we'll see more of this shaking out. any closing thoughts before we leave? >> no. you know, my heart goes out to dr. biden and the biden family because, like i said, they've been through hell because of what the republicans have done to this family over the last five years before they were in the white house, in the white house, and i'm sure it will go on after they're out of the

white house, too. >> michael la rosa, thank you for those insights. our breaking news coverage continues. my colleague jonathan capehart is up right after this. pehart is up right after this and get samsung galaxy s24+, and watch and tab, all three on us. only on verizon. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well. ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance... ♪ ♪ ...at each day's start. ♪ ♪ as time went on, it was easy to see. ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c! ♪ and for adults with type 2 diabetes... ...and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. serious side effects include increased ketones in blood or urine, which can be fatal. stop jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, trouble breathing, or increased ketones. jardiance may cause dehydration that can suddenly worsen kidney function and make you feel dizzy, lightheaded, or weak upon standing.

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>> good evening, i'm jonathan capehart, we continue our breaking news coverage out of washington this evening, joe biden has issued a pardon for his son, hunter who pleaded guilty to tax evasion in californ