breaking news this hour, exclusive nbc news reporting tells us that president biden has decided to issue a pardon

for his son, hunter biden, reversing the president's stance on using executive clemency. i am alyssa marie in for ayman mohyeldin, let's do it. it just moments ago, president joe biden issued a pardon for his son, hunter, was found guilty of unrelated charges in delaware and who also pleaded guilty to tax evasion in california. president biden has repeatedly said that he would not use his executive authority to pardon his son or to commute his sentence, but according to exclusive reporting from nbc news, the president changed his mind over the thanksgiving weekend, and in the last hour, the president issued a defiance statement that reads in part, "the charges in these cases came about only after several of my political opponents in congress instigated them to attack me and oppose my election. then a carefully negotiated plea deal agreed to by the department of justice unraveled in the courtroom. a number of my political opponents in congress taking credit for bringing political

pressure on the process. had the police been held, it would have been a fair, reasonable solution of hunters cases." president biden continued, "no reasonable person who looks at the facts of hunters cases can reach any other conclusion than hunter was singled out only because he is my son and that is wrong. there has been an effort to break hunter, who has been 5 1/2 years sober, even under the face of unrelenting attacks and selective prosecution. in trying to break hunter, they have tried to break me, and there's no reason to believe it will stop here. enough is enough." this pardon comes ahead of hunter biden's december 12th sentencing on the spero dedes gun charge convictions sprint hunter biden is also set to be sentenced in a second criminal case that went on december 16th after pleading guilty in september to federal tax evasion charges. again, there is a lot going on here. biden concluded his statement tonight, saying he hopes americans will understand why

he made this decision as both a president and a father. joining me now to discuss all of this is nbc news white house correspondent mike who is here on air. so, mike, what more do we know about this? are you getting any information about the internal dynamics of this discussion within the biden family? what is the likely fallout going to be in the west wing on monday morning? what is going on? >> well, melissa, you just read from this statement that we received from the president in the last hour, and there are times when the white house issues a statement in the president's name where it was clearly something that had been worked up by his aides, and then there are times you can tell when the president has offered his own words, and in fact, i would hesitate to suggest that perhaps hunter biden's voice is in this as well, because this statement was so personal, so direct from the man himself, that it really speaks to what has been a heart-wrenching ordeal for this entire family, not just over the course of the last year as hunter has gone

through not one, but two trials, one ultimately was cut short when he decided to plead guilty to those tax related charges, but over the course of the last six years, when the president decided to run for president in 2019, it was only after the family had a heart-to- heart conversation with each other about whether they were prepared for everything that might follow, including the fact that the then president donald trump might weaponize the family and go after hunter biden in particular. that was the decision they ultimately made to go forward together, despite that. over the course of this past year, we have seen the president at times publicly, through his spokespeople as well, repeatedly saying he will not issue a pardon for his son. but the conversations that are happening within the west wing are very different than the conversations that are happening between father and son, and first and foremost, i think the president was concerned about whether doing this was something that was his son's desire as well, was this

something that would be good as his son has been on this a long road to recovery from addiction, an addiction that really deep end and became much more serious after the death of his brother, the president's son, beau biden. and the fact that this comes after the thanksgiving holiday is really so telling in the biden story. the president has been going to nantucket with his family, with hunter and beau specifically since it just the year after he lost his first wife, amelia, his other infant daughter in accident that happened just at the start of his political career point now, as the president is ending his medical career, this appears to have solidified by what was a very intimate gathering in nantucket by the family over the next -- >> the mike, we also have nbc news investigative producer and story editor sarah fitzpatrick, she is joining us by phone. sarah, michael just mentioned that this likely was a decision reached by the family over thanksgiving and nantucket, a very intimate gathering of the family.

what have you learned about those discussions among the biden family and how all of this played out in the decision ultimately came about? >> so, we know that these discussions have been very private, they have been essentially locked down in nantucket and really just focusing as a family kind of on these discussions in a very, very private way. not even the president's closest aides were fully informed about what was transpiring. we learned in our reporting that we published tonight, we mentioned that the president did discuss the possibility of pardoning his son after his conviction on gun charges in june, and that there was a discussion about the possibility of pardoning, even though he had publicly said that he would not do it. so, that option, it seems, was in some ways in the president's

mind always on the table. although to be clear, hunter biden's legal team continued to prepare for a second trial that he was set to go to trial for in september, and ultimately, the morning that the jury selection was about to start, hunter biden showed up in court and surprised everyone by saying that he had made the decision to plead guilty. hunter biden's legal team had also been preparing for a sentencing. but i think we had a real hint, it's not that the president would make this decision, but at least that there was -- he was perhaps being given important talking points, important things to consider. yesterday, just a little over 24 hours ago, hunter biden's attorney abby putout what he called a white paper, a 62 page document, which kind of summarized the key arguments laid out, the narrative, as

well as the timeline, and it was called the political prosecutions of hunter biden. essentially, this document was a very detailed, primarily all information that was already in the public domain from court filings to even president trump's tweets, but laying out how the hunter biden legal team viewed his two criminal cases and the various steps over the last five years that kind of put him in this particular position. so, i think the timing is somewhat significant. yesterday, hunter biden's attorney would not respond to repeated questions about if this document had made its way to the president or if the document had made it to the white house. and so, i think it is safe to say that some of these arguments that hunter biden's lawyers felt that this was an unusual and improper prosecution of the president's

son that probably would not have occurred if his name was not hunter biden, i think that probably was a major factor in the president's decision- making. >> sarah, can i ask, do you think it is likely that the family discusses the political consequences of this decision as they made the decision to have the president issued this pardon for his son? >> look, i think these were very, very private conversations, however i think that this is a family that is always, you know, considering what those implications may be. and it is not just implications for the president, for his legacy, it is also the implications for hunter biden, hunter biden's safety. i think there was a real awareness amongst everyone that this pardon could -- the potential of this pardon could really cut either way. it would prevent hunter biden from having to potentially serve

a very significant amount of jail time. however, i think there was also a consideration that would this potentially put a target on his back? the special counsel david weiss is a trump appointed special counsel. we have been reporting extensively on what, if any -- you know, what the plans are, will that special counsel continue in a trump administration, are there other charges, could there be other attempts to go after the biden family, including hunter biden? and so, i think this decision was not as simple as, you know, ending -- could this potentially cause a greater political firestorm? and i think, ultimately, the president made the decision as a father, [ inaudible ] >> so, thanks so much for that insight, sarah, and great reporting. we are going to go now to msnbc legal analyst daniel. danny, this will obviously get

hunter biden out of a court of law, but how is this pardon decision going to play in the court of public opinion? >> it is going to play poorly. and really, it is going to play poorly because of biden's statement, not because of the pardon. look, months and months ago, i said the president will harden hunter biden on his last day in office, and folks would say no, he said he is not going to do that. and to that, i said yes, but it is his son. and other said no, no, he will commute his sentence, and commuting is a lesser form of the pardon where you essentially shorten somebody's sentence, usually enough to let them out of jail or prison that very day. that's usually when they have already been serving time. >> the let's talk about that, it's very interesting, but at the time, i said no, he is going to get a full pardon, and the answer is because it is his son, and it may not be right, but it is what i would do, it is what you would do, it is

what almost anybody, i believe, would do. and this has been going on with the pardon power for many presidencies. whether it is bill clinton apart pardoning his half- brother, this is what president's stupid and during this show, you yourself said, i thought this was a great point, the pardon power is not used as much as it should be, but unfortunately, for me as a criminal defense attorney, it doesn't make me feel that much better that i see people who do get the benefit of executive condiments he are the president's son or jared kushner's father, and that is why i'm glad you brought up the other point, which is there is the presidential high profile pardon process which we are seeing now, where the president can tweet or make an announcement and completely and fully pardon someone, there actually is an office of the pardon attorney, where typically people have to apply, and usually they have already served a sentence, they have been convicted. this is not the normal process. but just because the executive branch has set up this process doesn't mean a president has to

follow it. the pardon power, since its inception, the framers envisioned this, it is one of the broadest, if not the broadest, unfettered power of the president. it cannot be reviewed, it cannot be stopped. this is over. >> i love that you used plenary. i just want to point out for you, danny, that this full and unconditional pardon covers any crimes that hunter biden committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from january 1st, 2014 through december 1st, 2024, so almost a 10 year span. so, going back to something that sarah said, she said that the family likely talked about whether or not this pardon would have put a target on hunter biden's back and whether there would be even more attention on him from the trump administration as it comes into power on january 20th, 2025, but this is a pretty wide array of time that is covered under this pardon, so if there is going to be further attention paid to hunter biden, it would have to be after december 1st, 2024. so, after today.

so, as long as hunter biden keeps his nose clean from here on out, he is pretty much out of the woods, is that your assessment? >> of course. like i said, the pardon power -- it knows almost no pictures but one of the few pictures are you can't pardon future crime, that would be like a license to go commit crime, so you have to pardon something that has already happened. you don't even need to know what it is, it can just be any and all conduct forever and ever, amen. now, there are some limitations here, about a 10 year limitation that you pointed out, but that is pretty don broad, and that makes sense. if the president is going to pardon his son, go big or go home may get a broad, expansive power to protect him from future prosecution, whether you think it is righteous or not, you might as well, because if you make it narrow, yes, if you get someone on the other side in the incoming administration who thinks it is that bad, then

they may look into hunter biden. so, if you're going to protect them, then you've got to protect him, and that's exactly what the president is doing here. >> what you make of the tone of this statement, it turns intimate, he talks about his love of his son as a father, but it is also incredibly defined, talking about the attacks on hunter biden as an effort to undermine him and his presidency. is this a president who has nothing left in the tank, he is leaving it all on the dance floor? >> yeah, i actually think that is a very good point but i think the president isn't as concerned about the politics of it. in his mind, he will let the people who come after him deal with that, and i say that because i don't think that was a very wisely worded statement. had i been advising the president, obviously it was not, it should have just said i pardon my son fully and completely from this date to this date, and that should have been it. but this explanation that it was somehow not a righteous prosecution, not a good look.

>> thanks so much for that, danny, we will be back with much more on this breaking news, president biden deciding to issue a pardon for his son, hunter biden, after saying he would not. all after this, stay with us. , asthma. does it have you missing out on what you love, with who you love? get back to better breathing with fasenra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems.

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welcome back, we continue our breaking news coverage tonight. nbc news was the first to report that president joe biden has issued a pardon for his son hunter, who was found guilty of unrelated charges in delaware and who also pleaded guilty to tax evasion in california. during the campaign, the president was adamant that he would not use his executive authority to pardon his son or to commute his sentence, the president changed his mind over the holiday weekend, and tonight, he issued a defined statement, announcing hunters pardon, and referring to his son's prosecution as vertically motivated and selective. let's go back to nbc news white house correspondent mike manley. mike, what are you hearing inside the west wing and at the white house, how are they preparing for what is likely to be a busy news day tomorrow?

>> well, what's interesting about this is i think this news came as a shock to most of the white house staff, and in fact, it is also worth noting that the president is going to in about an hour and a half leave the white house, traveled to andrews air force base, and then fly to angola. he is scheduled to hold the last likely foreign trip of his time in office, an important, long-delayed trip to the subcontinent of africa that he has promised to visit, so this certainly will overshadow that trip, it also might give us a chance to hear from the president. typically, he at least entertains questions from reporters as he boards air force one, so we will have that opportunity. but we know that the president, as is very close knit team and his son hunter himself have evaluated whether to take this dramatic step. one of the considerations, of course, is to try to take away the threat of jail time, the possibility of jail time at one

or both of the sentencings for different charges he was facing, and ultimately pled guilty to and won and was convicted by jury of the other. the other question that remains, despite this pardon, is what will happen on capitol hill? and we are getting our first reaction from republicans in the house in particular, i want to read a statement we just received from the chairman of the house oversight committee, james comer, who says in part that joe biden has lied from start to finish about his family's corrupt peddling activities. the charges hunter faced were just the tip of the iceberg in the blatant corruption that president biden and the biden crime family have lied about to the american people. what that statement indicates and hyperbolic type rhetoric embedded in it is that whether or not the justice department, under a president trump and under it potential attorney general pam bondi may choose to continue and maybe even widen other areas of investigation that special counsel david weiss in the state of delaware had already been looking into, including foreign lobbying, we know that republicans in the house that are already holding

the gavels now and the senate republicans, the republicans that will soon take over the committees when they assume the majority next year, can continue to beat this drum. they can continue to hold hearing after hearing. they can subpoena hunter biden to come in, they can try to explore whether there might be other potentially wrongdoing. so, on one hand, this pardon does take up right away, but there are certainly the political consequences to come. mike, i'm so sorry to cut you off, we have representative jasmine crockett of texas joining us on the phone from a plan, i believe, there you are on the plane. representative crockett, what is the democratic caucus saying about this news regarding hunter biden's pardon? >> i won't pretend to speak for the entire caucus, but it was a way to go, joe. let me be the first one to congratulate the president for deciding to do this, because at the end of the day, we know that we have a 34 can convicted felon that is about to walk into the white house, for

anyone that wants to clutch their pearls now because he decided he was going to pardon his son, i would say take a look in the mirror, because we also know that when it comes to this cabinet, this cabinet has more people accused of sexual assault than any incoming cabinet probably in the history of america, so we are living in unprecedented times, and we know that this was completely political as someone who serves on the oversight committee. this was gamesmanship the entire time, and we know that this investigation had been taking place for five or six years. we know that hunter had accepted responsibility and it was the oversight committee that was pushing to try to say, no, it wasn't enough, and ultimately the judge decided to reject the plea. so, considering everything that took place and considering where we are in this country, as a way to go, joe. >> can i ask a question, and it looks like your seatmates behind you think it is very precedented to have someone be on the television while they are boarding the plane, but we have talked a lot with you on msnbc programs about the way african americans and latinos

are often brought up in the drug trade and results in criminal convictions, do you think going for that this is an opportunity for the president to use his clemency power more broadly, certainly given the kind of criticism is likely to face over this, but to expand the array of individuals who are also offered clemency as his term winds down? >> so, thank you so much for the question, because i actually have a letter that i am actually about to really push out a lot more widely. this letter is to actually work on the disparities that we have seen, specifically for crack cocaine, it is a conversation that has started with the attorney general before the election, it was something that i wanted to do in the lame- duck, no matter who won the presidency. and so, we know that there are people who are still sitting in custody in the federal government -- the federal prisons, because they were charged with crack cases years and years before the law ever changed, and even when the law changed under obama, it still

was 18-1 disparity. it is time for those people that have been sitting there and have had this disparity held over their heads and it has been nothing but racism that has driven it, it is time for them to go ahead and have their sentences recalculated, and we have the numbers. we know the percentages of people of color, we know the percentages of people that would get out, and so, i'm hoping that the president takes us up on it. that's all right, thank you so much for joining us, representative crockett, and making time, in economy class and no less, thank you. >> [ laughter ] >> can we go back to mike on capitol hill and at the white house, is mike still with us? mike, you just read from that statement from house oversight committee chairman james comer. does it look like this is an invitation to the house to start doing some more hearings of hunter biden when they get back in session in the new year? >> well, i think this begs the question of giving purpose to hearings that might already have been taking place. i think one of the interesting

dynamics that we have seen, criticisms of trump and trump allies during the past four years is the way in which they believe the former president, now the president-elect was subject to oversight persecution, politically motivated. it is very possible that republicans were already considering the ways in which congress might take steps to oversight [ inaudible ] and even his family, so i think certainly, what we saw from congressman comber, who is the chairman of the oversight committee and will continue likely to be so, is that they now have further justification for, in their view, proceeding along those lines. i want to share with you, melissa, we just in the last moment or so received a new statement from hunter biden himself. obviously, we have heard from his father, now i want to read to you the statement we just received from hunter biden himself. he says in the statement, "i have admitted and taken responsibility for my mistakes

during the darkest days of my addiction, mistakes that have been exploited to publicly humiliate and shame me and my family for political support. despite all of this, i have maintained my sobriety for more than five years because of my deep faith and the unwavering love and support of my family and friends. in the throws of addiction, i squandered many opportunities and advantages paid in recovery, we can be given the opportunity to make amends where possible and rebuild our lives if we never take for granted the mercy that we have been afforded. i will never take the clemency i have been given today for granted and will devote the lights i have rebuilt to helping those who are still sick and suffering." so, that is the first word we are hearing tonight from hunter biden himself. and over the course of the last year, reading that statement, and struck, as we talk about the intersection of the presidents sons legal woes and the political dynamic on capitol hill, the president, i have been told in the past and we have reported on in the past, was watching closely when for instance his son appeared

in a congressional hearing room when those very committees for holding hearings about him. he was very proud of the fact that his son was willing to sort of stand up for himself, and so, i think mixed with all the emotions and other considerations of the political future and the legal future is an element of pride between father and son in this moment, of more than anything, seeing him in this process of recovery, which we know continues. it is not something that ends, it is an ongoing process, and there will that this is a continued step in the right direction. that's that is mike at the white house. we will take a quick break and be back with this breaking news on hunter biden and his presidential pardon, just after this. idential pardon, just aft this. look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti... he's melting! oh jeez... nooo... oh gaa... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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welcome back, we continue our breaking news coverage. earlier this evening, president joe biden issued a pardon for his son hunter, was found guilty of gun related charges in delaware and who pleaded guilty to tax evasion in california. notice of president biden's pardon of hunter biden has been filed in the dockets in hunter biden's cases in both

california and delaware. the president's pardon moves [ inaudible ] and entry of judgment in this case and requires an automatic dismissal of the indictment with prejudice , they write in each filing. president biden had said repeatedly that he would not use his executive authority to pardon his son or to commute his sentence, but as first reported tonight by nbc news, the president changed his mind over the thanksgiving weekend, and in the last hour, he issued a statement that was both defiant and deeply personal. the statement reads in part, " no reasonable person who looks at the facts of hunters cases can reach any other conclusion that hunter was singled out only because he is my son, and that is wrong. there has been an effort to break hunter, who has been 5 1/2 years sober, even in the face of unrelenting attacks and selective prosecution. in trying to break hunter, they have tried to break me, and there is no reason to believe it will stop here. enough is enough." this pardon comes ahead of

hunter biden's december 12 sentencing for his conviction on federal gun charges. biden is also set to be sentenced in a separate criminal case, that one on december 16th, after pleading guilty in september on federal tax evasion charges. i'm being joined now by carol lam, msnbc legal analyst, and former united states attorney for the southern district of california. carol, let's talk about these pardons. obviously, the pardon is very broad, it not only covers the california tax evasion case, as well as the delaware gun related charges, but these are only for federal crimes and only within that 10 year period. is there a possibility that some trump directed governor, maybe not in delaware, maybe not in california, but somewhere in the united states, might prosecute hunter biden going forward for other charges in another jurisdiction at the state level, which would not be covered by a presidential pardon? >> right, you rightly point out that the constitutional pardon power that the president of the united states has covers only

federal crimes and federal prosecutions, federal sentences, so it doesn't apply to state cases, and that's why for example you see in the case of donald trump, the new york state prosecution continues and will continue on. but in this case, it is a broad -- it is a pretty broad 10 year coverage from hunter biden on the federal side, but yes, if a state wanted to come forward and prosecute hunter biden, they could, but i think the odds of that are fairly slim. you know, this prosecution -- most states have a five year statute of limitations, maybe six years, so they would have to sort of drum up a grand jury and an investigation and bring the remaining charges related to these charges fairly quickly. >> so, unlikely to happen at the state level. what does seem more likely, certainly given statements from republicans on capitol hill, that there may be a more congressional attention paid to hunter biden. what is the likelihood that we see more congressional

investigations, congressional hearings on this matter as we go into the new congress in january? >> we might see some of that, but frankly, hunter biden does not seem to be somebody who is cowed by congressional investigations, he sort of was fairly -- he was fairly antagonistic, i would say, with respect to the congressional hearings, he showed up for one, said he wasn't going to testify, that sort of thing. but the criminal convictions, that follows a process, and i don't think there is a lot of juice that can be gotten out of these criminal convictions in congressional hearings, because he is convicted of one charge and he pled guilty to the tax charges, so, there isn't a question of actually what happened anymore. we know what happened. i think it is likely to be just more of a smearing that you are a bad person, and so you must have done other bad things. >> we certainly heard that

before, and joining us now to talk about some of the rhetoric on capitol hill with regard to hunter biden is former illinois congressman joe walsh. welcome, congressman walsh. what do you make of all of this, what is likely to be the response on capitol hill to this breaking news? >> good to be with you. you see, i told you so. they are all like that, so the next time any of us complain about anything trump does, this pardon is just deflating. for those of us who have been out there for a few years now, yelling about what a unique threat donald trump is, for joe biden to do something like this -- nobody is above the law, we have been screaming, well, joe biden just made clear, his son hunter is above the law. donald trump lives every time he opens his mouth, we have been screaming for joe biden repeatedly lied about this.

the politicization of the justice system, donald trump and his people have been screaming. that is exactly what biden said here. >> joe, is this the politics of purity? i mean, we had donald trump pardon sheriff joe r pao during his term, and there wasn't a lot of human cry about that. and this is a father who saw his first wife killed, his daughter killed in a car crash, his two young sons survived, one goes on to have real difficulties with addiction, another dies because of cancer. this is a family that is really troubled. yes, he said he wasn't going to do this, but did anyone ever believe that was the case? i mean, i would have put good money on this happening. are many people going to be surprised that a father who is also the president would do this for his son? >> i don't know that people will be surprised, because you are right, joe biden repeatedly said he wouldn't do this, so he repeatedly lied. but this just furthers the cynicism that people have about politics, and that cynicism

strengthens trump. because trump can just say, i am not a unique threat, everybody does this. if i do something for my kid, my son-in-law, whatever, look, joe biden does the same thing. i get it. but this was a selfish move by biden, which politically only strengthens trump. it is just deflating. >> joe walsh, big hot take, and we are going to stay with us, but you at home, also stay with us, we have much more on this breaking news right after this. >> ght after this. >> these sulfate-free formulas deeply penetrate and replenish nutrients. ♪♪ to boost hair health in just one wash. ♪♪ all without the salon naturals price tag. ♪♪ ♪♪ it's supercharged herbal essences. ♪♪ when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be.

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breaking news, president biden has decided to issue a pardon for his son, hunter biden, reversing the president's stance on using his

executive authority for that purpose. joining me now to discuss all of this and more is justice and legal affairs analyst anthony. welcome back. joe walsh just came in hot with a very hot take on this is a deflating pardon, that this essentially makes the biden administration look worse than what they have accused the trump administration and the trump campaign of doing. what is your take on this, this is an understandable move from the president who is also a father or is this more law fair? >> yeah, i strongly disagree with congressman walsh. i've got to tell you, [ inaudible ] a father's unconditional love to his son, melissa, and it is absolutely justified. if you were to step back and to look at the people that donald trump is appointing or plans to appoint and nominate to the highest level of the justice department, i'm talking about kash patel to the fbi, the lead investigative agency of our

nation's federal government apparatus, to the attorney general of the united states, somebody who is an election denier. i mean, what this means is that he is putting in place people who disregard facts, who disregard the law -- >> anthony, let me interrupt you for a second. that is all true, and we were talking about kash patel before this news broke, but in making this pardon after very extravagantly disclaiming the prospect of a pardon from the sun, has president biden made it difficult for republicans or independent republicans in the senate and the democrats in the senate to oppose some of these nominations, including kash patel? >> listen, i mean, the reason he is doing it is because donald trump is putting the pieces in place to make good on his threat to weaponize the justice department. i mean, my question to any of

these people, melissa, is how [ inaudible ] your own son exposed legally when you see what these republicans are doing and the pieces that they are putting in place to weaponize the justice department in a way that has never been done before in our nations history? you know, joe biden did the right thing. i think personally, i think i would have waited until after the sentences were handed down in both of these cases in mid- december, but listen, i get it, i don't disagree with the action at all, he was right to do it, and quite frankly, i'm glad he did it, considering what republicans are going to weaponize our nations legal justice system. >> so, the president does get blowback from this on capitol hill, what should the plan be? we have talked about this on that, the clemency power is woefully underutilized. there are thousands of individuals who are currently incarcerated in federal prisons for drug crimes, nonviolent

drug offenses, this is an opportunity for the biden administration to make a real statement about the clemency power and maybe expand the scope of its use beyond hunter biden to some of these other individuals, perhaps might not have the same opportunity? >> absolutely, and i suspect now we are firmly in the christmas, the holiday season, so i suspect that before this is all over, said, and done, what we are going to see, a long list of people who have in many instances paid their debt to society, and that is what we tend to see at the end of any presidential administration. my hope here, though, your broader question about what happens in congress, this is all -- it will be political [ inaudible ]. whatever republicans decide to do in the house and senate judiciary committee or oversight committee, hunter biden knows how to -- and knows how to comport himself in front of both of those [ inaudible ],

but now, rightly, joe is off the table for him. >> all right, okay, anthony, lots of great information here, thank you so much. we are going to take a quick break and be back on this breaking news after this. breaking news after this. ♪♪ good to go out even later. ♪♪ with cabenuva, there's no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it's two injections from a healthcare provider, as few as 6 times a year. don't take cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients, or taking certain medicines, that may interact. serious side effects include allergic reactions or rash, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if these occur, get medical help right away. tell your doctor about your medicines or supplements, medical conditions, liver or kidney problems, mental health, pregnancy, and breastfeeding. the most common side effect is injection site reaction

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welcome back, breaking news, president joe biden has issued a pardon for his son, hunter biden, and we have just received a statement from stephen chong of the trump campaign. the statement reads, "the failed witchhunts against president trump have proven that the democrat-controlled doj and other radical prosecutors are guilty of weaponizing the justice system. that system of justice must be fixed and due process must be restored for all americans, which is exactly what president trump will do as he returns to the white house with an overwhelming mandate from the american people." my next guest is someone who is very familiar with the first family. joining me now is michael, former press secretary to first lady jill biden. michael, thank you so much for joining us on such short notice on this night of breaking news. again, the president repeatedly disclaimed the prospect of using executive clemency to pardon his son, hunter biden, and now he has, and there will

likely be criticism on capitol hill for that. why make the statement that he would not do this in the first place, and then ultimately turn around and do it? i think most people would have understood if he as a father chose to pardon his son under the circumstances. >> yeah, and i do understand the frustration that congressman walsh is talking about or speaking from. you know, the biden campaign in 2020 and the white house, we always hold ourselves to a much higher standard. at the same time, it is important to remember that when we talked about the weaponization of government, hunter biden specifically is ground zero for the weaponization of government, i mean, this is the very non- politically active son of at the time a former vice president, who was seen as the main threat to the sitting president. so, what did they do?

they appointed prosecutors who took five years longer than the [ inaudible ] investigation to come up with a first time gun offense, a gun that he never loaded and owned for 11 days, and a first time tax [ inaudible ], for which he paid back in full with penalty and interest the way many americans do, because millions of americans don't pay their taxes on time as well. so, the politicalization and weaponization of the family is really a can of worms. i think the republicans have opened up on a political front that i think they're going to come to regret, because now they are putting family and play, there putting in laws in play, there putting children, kids, and grandkids of elected leaders in play. and i don't know how they're going to put that back into the

can again. >> no, you make a good point, and certainly before these federal prosecutions, there was discussion of hunter biden's business transactions in ukraine, this is someone who has been in the news for a while and has been the target of a lot of inquiries and attention, and of course, the pardon power has been used by other presidents to pardon family members. bill clinton and donald trump. >> let's talk about trump's -- his son-in-law's father, i think three campaign advisers, and people who were convicted of war crimes, of murder in iraq, he pardoned all of them. and so, to be having this conversation right now, look, i think it is important what the president did. i am always -- i'm always weary of politics and whether he should have been so adamant in the first place that he wasn't going to pardon him. however, we can't sit by and let these double standards just

[ inaudible ] . these crumbs would never have been investigated at the federal level [ inaudible ] >> the michael, you have had a front row seat to the biden family over the years, what were these discussions within the biden family at thanksgiving likely about and how did this go down? quickly. >> well, these are painful discussions, like they raise their family at a point in politics, through the '70s, through the '90s, where there was civility politics. this has been a hellish experience for the biden family for five years. i'm just glad that this thanksgiving, they cannot put this behind them, finally, for the first time in five years. that's all right, michael rosa, lots to say here, we are going to see more of this shaking out. any closing thoughts on this before we leave? >> no, my heart goes out to dr. biden and the biden family, because like i said, they have

been through a lot because of what the republicans have done to this family over the last five years, before they were in the white house, in the white house, and i am sure it will go on after they are out of the white house, too. >> the michael, thank you for those insights. our breaking news coverage continues, my colleague jonathan capehart is up after this. t is up after this. taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems. serious allergic reactions may occur. get help for swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens or you have a parasitic infection. headache and sore throat may occur. ask your doctor if fasenra is right for you.

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