fbi directors are unique,

they are chosen to last through multiple presidential terms because they are supposed to be insulated from politics. which makes the latest decision by trump to replace the current fbi director with a model loyalist and self-described loyalist against the deep state, extraordinary. so who is kash patel? a 44-year-old lawyer who worked for a few years in the doj at the aral prosecutor on counterterrorism. according to reporting, he left doj aggrieved and frustrated after that he went to work for congressman nunez on the house

permanent select committee on intel, this was back in 2017 and newness had him focus on the fbi's justification for the russia investigation and the origins of the steel dossier where again, according to the atlanta, he started to believe in the conspiracy donald trump was calling the deep state. from there, he left to donald trump's national security council in the white house and developed a reputation for intense, some would say dangerous, devotion to donald trump. so worrying, that high-ranking officials in donald trump's first administration threatened to resign when trump try to promote him into the upper echelons of the intelligence community. today, without the quote, adult in the room from the last administration, trump is trying to promote him again, this time, to head of the fbi. the very bureau he has decried as being embedded with deep state traders. >> the fbi's footprint has gotten so freaking big and the biggest problem the fbi has had has come out of its intel, i

would shut down the fbi hoover building, on day one and reopening the next day, as a museum of the deep state. christopher wray can go to congress and say domestic terrorism prosecutions are on the rise, and he can say, him and garland can say we've got 1000 people under investigation for this insurrection. this insurrection nobody was ever charged for but it's a political narrative added stuff to defeat, it sounds lethal, you know, storming of this, hijacking of that, insurrection but when you look at some of the people involved, their lives have been destroyed by the justice department. >> one thing we learned in the

first go-round is we've got to put in all american patriots top to bottom. we will go out and find the conspirators, not just in the government but in the media. we will go after the people in the media light about american citizens who helped joe biden rig elections, we are coming after you. yeah, we are putting you all on notice and this is why they hate us. this is why we are dictators because we are going to use the constitution to prosecute them for crimes they said we've been guilty of but never have. >> quite a lot there. so what will the republican-led senate do with this nomination? all right, let's get into it, give me more on who kash patel is and his qualifications to be in this position? >> i've called him the personification of model rage, as you saw there, one thing is

a theme that runs through this is a real sense of grievance. and that's at a lot of institutions but particularly the fbi and justice department. he spent a lot of years as a public defender and then spent three years where he was on the national security division and in that time, he later said he was the lead prosecutor going after the benghazi terrace, which is manifestly untrue and it's been debunked, and he had mid-level jobs in the trump administration of the defense department, nothing that would suggest he is qualified to run one of the most important intelligence agencies and the most important law enforcement agency in the country. and he is a person who has threatened to dismantle the fbi and to use it to pursue donald trump's aims of prosecuting his

political enemies and we should take that seriously. the fbi is an extremely powerful law enforcement organization, with a lot of tools at its disposal to conduct surveillance that americans will never see. there are safeguards in place to prevent those tools from being abused but we've seen, those safeguards don't always hold. so this is a very serious moment for american democracy. >> i want to get more about the origin story of kash patel. elena, you've done a lot of deep reporting on it. >> i think it starts, grievance, being a theme that runs through his career and that's right, to me, what i found to be a formative moment for him and my reporting was,

when he was a federal defender at the miami public defender's office and was berated by a federal judge in houston for showing up without a tie to court. certainly, the judge's outburst was disproportionate to the quote unquote crime but that moment, coupled with the fact that when the washington post published a report about this, back in 2016, the department of justice would not go on the record defending patel despite doing so in private. so for kash patel, that, to him, read as, manifestation of the system being unwilling to back up the people in the rank and file, so that i think was sort of what escalated as he went on to work for devin nunes, and this idea that you know, his grievance against the system, he's steadily accruing the powers you would need to exact revenge on the people who

he feels has wronged him. >> did you see any of this when you're working with him at the fbi? >> this will surprise people, no. when he was working a number of east african terrorism cases, pieces of benghazi, i was directly involved in all that, he was a very responsible, motivated attorney, who built good partnerships with fbi agents and task force officers and across the agencies, so he has described himself as the legal liaison, but he built strong partnerships there and wound up working pretty routinely it's called joint interagency task force in washington, d.c. he was effective, if that kash patel showed up for senate confirmation, he would be well received. it is the actor in this

political theater -- >> do you recognize this guy? >> not at all. >> it's disappointing. >> given your experience with him, christopher, and what we've seen of him since he left the fbi and started working in the national security council and being in the wiles of the public sector, what has been motivating him? is this a money move for him because as you've have outlined, this guy's got, books, we have some screen grabs, a children's book included, talking about, you know, everyone is trying to go after donald trump and they went after the king, something like that, he's got wind, he sells wine, a reversible scarf, r.i.n.o. tank tops, kash crew golf

polos, i mean he's like donald trump in the way that he is branding himself and trying to make money off his current position in the maga world, so, is it that he's animated by, he's a true believer, going after what he sees as political enemies and the deep state or is this a moneymaking proposition for him? >> i would say the moneymaking, the merchant selling and whatnot came by necessity when the first trump administration came to an end, and he was really struggling to find offers, that he felt he deserved, he was coming off of having been chief of staff to the acting secretary of defense. i had sources tell me that he would regularly complain that anyone else in his position would immediately receive an offer from let's say oracle or boeing and he wasn't getting anything like that, so the commodification of his association with donald trump became a natural way to make

money and grab from various pots, you could say, when he didn't have a regular, steady job, his elevation to directorship of the fbi, excuse me, it would really signal that he is finally tabling those things and actually making good on the promises he made in the first trump administration. >> i want to ask about the loyalty question because you describe him as somebody who would do anything for donald trump, what is the evidence of that, what does that mean, to do anything for donald trump, is it within the bounds of laws or outside? >> i can't predict that specifically but i will say that when there is a staffer who is not motivated in a way

that someone like stephen miller is, which is to say, a pretty coherent ideology, think about stephen miller, you think about his specific views on immigration policies, kash patel is not the same. this is not somebody who is animated by a particular worldview when it comes to national security or american intelligence. this is somebody who has really tethered himself to donald trump, the man, which is to say that whenever he wakes up tomorrow and once kash to do something, he will do. i've one former officials say to me, in the course of reporting my story on him a couple of months ago, that donald trump knows that kash patel is the kind of man that you would say, i'm not telling you to break into the dnc but when it be great if something like that happened?

>> expand on that. >> listening to elena, and chris talk, i think you can figure out why those offers from boeing and oracle were not forthcoming because as much as he would have been and was a partner to the fbi during the period of time when chris knew him, he went from being that partner to a person under investigation by the fbi. in 2022, he was forced to testify in the classified documents investigation because initially he took the fifth amendment. he refused to testify. until the department of justice gave him use immunity meaning nothing that he said in the testimony could be used against him to prosecute him. that is a person whose loyalty is so secure to donald trump that until he was offered that immunity, he would not say a word about that involvement. and what we know about that is he is a person who said donald trump declassified everything, but we also have an fbi 302 document that's an interviewing memo from the fbi saying that a person who seems to be kash patel, was the only person who potentially would testify that that actually happened.

>> sometimes those safeguards don't hold and if you look at the abuses of the fbi, which changed the positions of the director, director hoover was there for over four decades and the fbi was used to go against american citizens and adversaries which led to counter intel pro which reformed the intelligence committee. the issue is the concern about the safeguards, they will have a monopoly at doj, so a lot of the things that govern what we do or the attorney general guidelines, they can be rewritten, leadership at the fbi, office of professional responsibility, all of those will be under the umbrella of the leadership, and if they are just blindly following, the

safeguards are being removed. >> are you worried, given the kash patel that you see out there now? >> if the statements that he is making are borne out, 100% because some of the statements are in direct violation to the constitutional rights, coming after the press, people's freedom of expression, those are things, the fbi stays way away from. >> any reaction within doj to this? >> as you can imagine, people are very concerned. they don't think he's qualified, the people i've talked to, they think that this pick amounts a way to troll and they hope that he's not confirmable but they think this

will be a test of the real independence because there will have to be a reason as some republicans decide to stand up and not confirm kash patel, there isn't a scandal as there was in the case of matt gaetz that would stand in their way, so they will have to cite perhaps his views and the things that he's asserted about the fbi and the justice department. and that's hard for republicans and many have said the same thing in public in recent years. >> i want to ask this while you're here, a question about the pegs, there's new reporting that is disturbing about pete had the -- pick seth and his past positions, the oversight of various organizations, this is from the new yorker, again, and there's a whistleblower report, cb, the whistleblower said that he had to be restrained while drunk from joining dancers at a louisiana strip club where he brought his team. the report says that hexa --

that he -- they also allege that he ignored serious accusations of impropriety, there was another former employer who described him in another situation, while he was at a bar saying, chanting, drunkenly, kill all muslims, kill all muslims. there was a lot more in this report from the new yorker. nbc has not confirmed any of it, and a spokesman for hegseth told the magazine, that this is not true. but given this, and the police report that we were documenting last week, what is the vive out there on hegseth? >> one of the frustrations is the press is not able to see the remainder of the documents that deal with that report from 2017, but, if the new yorkers reporting is true, katie, i would say the vibes should be increasingly bad.

they are of a piece not only with the incident in the police report but with the email that his mother sent him over the weekend, this is somebody who has a pattern of disrespect for women, a pattern of inebriation and bad judgment when it comes to female employees or associates. even if there was no sexual assault to have happened, the idea that a future defense secretary was taking staff members to a strip club for a teambuilding activity, is a revelation of judgment. >> his lawyer said we won't comment on outlandish claims. all right, thank you very much, still ahead, what republican senators are saying about kash patel plus joe biden pardoned

his son, hunter. what trump is threatening to do to a coalition of countries who are considering moving away from using the dollar as its currency. we are back in 90 seconds. givi'e through the power of dell ai with intel. so those who receive can find the joy of giving back. have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further. can find the joy proudly made in tennessee, a safe step walk-in tub is the best in it's class. the ultra-low easy step helps keep you safe from having to climb over those high walled tubs, allowing you to age gracefully in the home you love. and now, back by popular demand,

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the fbi. they expect to see sweeping change and kash patel is the right person to do it. >> is only qualification is that he agrees with donald trump that the department of justice should serve to punish, lockup, and intimidate donald trump's political opponents. >> all right, current fbi director christopher wray will have to resign or be fired to make way for kash patel. and then he faces a confirmation battle in the senate. what is the word on kash patel? >> senators coming back to town today, we expect we will hear more from them than but patel's nomination is certainly one that should be received with scrutiny and even over the weekend, we saw some sitting senators making the comment basically that this job isn't open right now.

mike rounds, for example, one senator making the point that he likes chris wray, he has found him to be good and competent when he briefed senators behind closed doors and unlike what senator haggerty was saying in the clip that you play there, other senators have said that they like wray in this position. that being said, we've seen this film before, while an fbi directors term is supposed be for 10 years, the very fashion with which trump began his last administration was after the first few months, firing the fbi director at that point it was james comey and then of course, beginning the installation of the new members of the cabinet, so that could be what he's preparing for here, of course, kash patel, a very different kind of person, someone who marches in lockstep with the so-called maga agenda, with president-elect donald trump, and he's made very incendiary and conspiratorial comments about media organizations, about reporters, about the so-called, deep state, things that we hear about at trump rallies that could be mainstreamed if patel is ultimately confirmed and

elevated to this position atop the fbi. that of course is the role of the senate to advise and consent and senators here have largely said they will do that with all of these nominees, now that they are coming back to town after the thanksgiving recess. it'll be interesting to see if it's just rounds who seems to be backing him up or if there are other senators who might want to say, not so fast, there's somebody already in that job. >> this is from his children's book about the deep state, let's listen. >> we are living in unparalleled times of corruption both for media and government. it's our job to expose the truth no matter what cost. my name is kash patel and i've written the first ever children's book. it's a fantastical telling about how we try to put trump over evil. please go to the link below and

order your copy today. >> are we going to see clips like that during the confirmation hearings? >> you've got to imagine that will come up the fact that these clips exist is something that democrats will immediately seize upon but i think the larger story here in all of these confirmation battles whether it was initially gates or hegseth or patel or any of the people who have just been put up, the real litmus test here is creating in real time, how much the senate is willing to just take from the incoming administration. how much and how often will they just do what the president- elect asks them to do, confirm the nominees, pass the legislation, prioritize the pieces, all of this is a litmus test in real time. so we talked about that as the role of gates, specifically and certainly he played a big part in establishing those norms, what the senate could stomach and what they couldn't, but patel, pam bondi, how she talked about investigating the investigators, law enforcement

capabilities were watching trump put together the team he wants in charge of them and now it's on the senate to basically either go along with the conspiratorial agenda that trump and his allies have put forward for the last several years, or, for the senate to try to reestablish some norms and traditions within that section of the government and candidly, i don't know that they will do that. >> thank you very much, ali. al.

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after repeatedly promising he would not use his executive authority to pardon his own son, president biden did just that. hunter biden was scheduled to be sentenced later this month for his conviction on federal gun charges. he was also sentenced or

scheduled to be sentenced this month on federal tax evasion charges which he pleaded guilty to as well. the presidents full and unconditional pardon spans an 11 year period from 2014, to the present. joining us now, former attorney for hunter biden, chris clark. it's good to see you again. >> so glad to be here. >> last time we talked, you were about to get a plea deal and that ultimately fell apart. since then, a lot has gone apart, he has now pleaded guilty to gun charges and to tax evasion. why do you think the president went back on his promise not to pardon his son? >> i think it's a different perspective, you are right, we had a plea deal, and mr. white's went back on the deal we had, it was a bit tragic. i think it put everybody through all kinds of trauma

that no one needed, and we all went through the lawful process and that unfair result came about and the president had to make things right, so you and i spoke and we had a deal. and unfortunately, he reneged on it. i was shocked. i think a lot of people were shocked, and that's why executive clemency exists because when people do things for reasons that are not, i don't want to say, right but maybe motivated by different things, you need a chance to override them. >> even after the plea deal fell apart, president biden, promised on the campaign trail multiple times that he wasn't going to do this, implying it

would set a bad precedent for him to pardon his own family members, so you call it a corruptive process, you said it was politically compromised. so why, even after the plea deal fell apart and after he promised not to do the pardon, why would he come out at the last minute and say, you know what, i've changed my mind. i will do it for this 11 year span, not just for these two crimes but for anything he may have done between 2011 and the present day? >> i didn't say a corruptive process, i said a problematic process. it's the same extent of the plea deal that we had because the point was, you need to end these things. hunter biden was never a political actor, he was a man who was a troubled man who turned his life around. i thought, actually, i really

did think that mr. weiss before certain people got a hold of him, understood and appreciated that. and we came to an agreement, not just as lawyers and gentlemen but in a contract that all of those issues were resolved. and he reneged on that. he then took him to trial, twice, katy, no one in delaware has ever been prosecuted for possessing a gun as a drug dealer except hunter biden and one other guy and the other guy, mr. weiss dismissed the case against. these are charges that should not be brought and regrettably, the process did not work and the president had to fix it, that's what executive clemency is about.

and i don't think you wanted to i don't think we wanted him to have to we fought for years, for five, six years to get a resolution that made sense that people agreed to and they backed out of it at the last minute, i mean, i don't know, everyone can draw their own conclusions. but this isn't like someone breaking a promise, this is someone who is using a process that we have to try to resolve things, does anyone really care in the united states that hunter biden had a gun for 24 hours? does anybody care? i'm sure there's a bunch of people that will raise their hand on truth social but they don't, really. >> let me ask you about something you just said, which

is that david weiss reneged, went back on the deal after somebody got a hold of him, someone got a hold of him, do you think it was congress, what do you think changed? >> i mean i'm not sure i said someone but yeah, congress went crazy on the guy. yeah, we had 4 to 5 briefs submitted by members of congress about a plea deal, congress isn't a party to a plea deal in federal court. what possible interest do they have in again, hunter biden has struggled and he has successfully overcome his struggles. and what possible issues do they have, political partisanship, that was kind of it. and so, yeah, i feel like mr. weiss gave into that, i don't think i was very quiet about it at the time.

i think i filed an affidavit in court about his discussions with me, and it was deeply disappointing that that is the way that it went down. >> i remember you telling me on the air, the statement from david weiss was funny because of the investigation is ongoing and i asked you about that and you said, your understanding the investigation was not ongoing and you would not make this deal with the assumption that anything else was later to come. let me ask you about the 11 year span because president biden was very specific not to pardon him for just these two crimes. does that tell you that he's worried that the republicans under donald trump might try to go after hunter biden in some other way after this, or if the president had only pardoned him for specifically the gun charge, and the tax evasion? >> i mean, what it tells me is that this should be brought to

an end, i'm going to use the term, nonsense, i mean hunter has been through a lot of stuff in his life, you cannot like him or not like him but he doesn't need to be a political whipping boy for anyone anymore, his dad is not going to be president anymore, and i think very thoughtful people have realized that we have to stop this -- i was going to use a word but i will not use it, this stuff, where we are taking out aggression on people who really don't deserve it. he doesn't deserve it. and so i think people thought in a forward thinking way, let's make sure that this incident. and it should be

ended, it really should. >> one of the criticisms that is out there about this pardon is not that he did it, but it's the way in which he did it, instead of coming out and saying hunter biden is my son, i already lost one son to cancer, i don't want to lose another, i can't let him, you know, go to prison. he didn't come out and say that, i'm a father, i'm not going to let this happen, instead what he did was kind of go after the process, and he in some ways, went after parts of the doj, helping to eat into the confidence for an agency that is already suffering a great deal in the public's perception of it. would you have gone after the department of justice the way that president biden did in issuing this pardon for his son? >> i will answer that two ways, one is, there are people who

have been screeching and screaming about the weaponization of the doj for the last six years. i was hunter biden's lawyer for years, and it's hard for me to think of a more weaponized thing than what we dealt with for him and i will say, as a person who was deeply involved in this process that the process that hunter biden went through at the doj was deeply unfair. and i was and a former official of the doj and i deeply respect the doj, and its integrity is incredibly important, but again, when you have a deal with the doj, people in my world believe they live by it.

and they didn't. and that undermines it just as much as when it's weaponized. the doj's word has to be just as solid as you know, swiss gold, and when it's not, it's problematic and you have to fix it, so, i don't think that's why the president did what he did. it is tragic with the biden family has been through over the years. though biden's demise was tragic, but, this wasn't a good process. it just wasn't. i mean i was there the whole way, and it wasn't a good process and now it's been corrected. >> have you spoken to hunter? >> not today. >> in the past 24 hours? >> i have not. i'm lucky enough.

>> you are happy -- we are happy that you were able to join us but i could spend more time but i will free you from the clutches of cable television. >> always a pleasure, katy. coming up, what the political cost of hunter biden's pardon might be. be. are e plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. most plans include the humana healthy options allowance. a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. plus, your doctor, hospital and

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let's get reaction, joining us now new york times reporter michael schmidt, and lisa rubin. i want to touch on something chris clark said at the end, that there are problems at the doj and he witnessed them in the center biden case. and they needed to be righted. the criticism for this as you well know, has been that the doj is already so hammered in the public atmosphere, it's not trusted the way it used to be and this would only make it worse. what did you think of chris clark and his comment there. >> look, i think clark feels really burned in this process. i think that he thought they had an agreement that would have brought a resolution to this, and it would have

satisfied the justice department at the same time, protected hunter biden from prosecution under a trump presidency. this was back in the summer of 2023, and they thought this was done and they thought that they were very close on this and they went to court and the whole thing blew up in their face. so if you are clark, you are very, very disappointed by the whole process. you are angry about that because you thought that you had a deal that brought it into it, not only did it not bring an end to it, it brought on to further indictments of hunter biden, and the fact that hunter biden was looking at a massive amount of time in prison, something that if they had gone along with the deal that clark thought he had, maybe, hunter never would have been going to prison. so i think there's a lot of deep frustration on their part because they think the government betray them on this

deal. that happens in investigations but i think what clark is saying and what the biden folks would say is that once the political pressure from the outside got amped up on the investigation and there were whistleblowers coming forward and there was more and more pressure from congressional republicans, the prosecutor on the case sort of changed what he wanted, and he began to move the goalposts, and when they say that that is unfair, i think that's what they are saying. >> lisa? >> there's a lot of lame to go around with respect to the unfairness. i think chris clark is right, in the sense that he is right to be frustrated with the way in which the deal fell apart. there was clearly some meeting of the minds and by the time they got to court to assess what the deal look like, they weren't able to tell the judge that they saw the deal in the same way and reasonably, he's frustrated. the other reason they should be frustrated, is the judge who

oversaw the delaware case where the plea deal ultimately went down because the deal was structured in a way that made the plea in both of these cases the gun charge on one hand and the tax charges on the other, interdependent, and put the judge in charge of whether or not hunter biden was in compliance with his plea deal at the judge rejected that role for herself and said wait a minute, doj is usually the one who says whether they've done with what they are supposed to do but the way the deal was structured was purposeful. they did it that way to protect hunter biden against a later department of justice being retributive to him and saying that he violated his plea deal, that was done for hunter's benefit and when the deal fell apart, that is what they revealed they didn't have a meeting of the minds. >> all right, lisa rubin, michael smith, thank you very much, and coming up next, trump's latest terror threat, don't go

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and urinary trfections, headache, and injection site reactions. it may increase the risk of infusion-related reactions and infection. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart hytrulo for gmg and picture your life in motion. donald trump is making more threats about tariffs on truth social. what are the new threats? >> these are for the bricks countries and that's brazil, russia, china, south africa and a few more and that's a group of countries that's been growing and they've been meeting and they've been in emboldened a bed and there's been talk behind the scenes of trying to may be diversified

away from using the us dollar and using local currency. it's a way to needle the united states and trump clearly sees this as a threat to the united states dominance, he says i will put a 100% on any of these countries if you use or make another currency that you will all be using together. there's not much risk that they will all of a sudden have their own currency. but if you look at what he said on truth social, they can go find another sucker, i think that is going to be a real common denominator of trump economic policies 2.0. he seems to think that trade deficits means the you as is losing and someone else's winning and he's going to use this tariffs gun that he has, to loaded on the table, look, i'm going to be able to threaten you at any time

because you need us more than we need you. >> 100% tariff on china, don't we need china quite a bit? just, what people rely on in terms of their daily needs, most everything you use everyday comes from china? >> for the past 40 years, china has become the factory floor to the rest of the world and the united states. and he's tapping into that, we have outsourced our factories to other countries and they win and we lose. and he's using this as a big threat. this might very well be the beginning of the conversation, so this stops anybody in their tracks from talking about using a different currency. us dollar is the queen currency of the world. >> i'm just thinking about four years of this. all right, christine romans, hope you are getting some sleep. that will do it for me today, deadline white house starts up, after this quick break. quick bk

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