confession. he and others were ruled out in part because their dna didn't match. some who followed the case from the start say the tainted crime scene makes it impossible to really rule anyone out. back to you. >> really fascinating. thank you. that does it for us today. thanks for joining us. thanks for joining us. >> catch our show online around the clock on youtube and other platforms. i'm anna cabrera reporting from new york. jose diaz-balart picks up our coverage right now. >> good morning. 11:00 a.m. eastern. i'm jose diaz-balart. we begin with the intensifying firestorm in washington surrounding president biden's decision to issue a sweeping pardon for his son hunter. moments ago, the judge in hunter biden's delaware case formally dismissed the case in light of that pardon. but the political backlash is

not letting up. >> if it was my son i'd pardon him too. here's what i didn't like. don't lie to us. don't tell us you're not going to do it and do it. >> as a member of congress i'm angry because it's going to be incredibly important that political leaders of both parties stand up for the independence of the department of justice, stand up to these attacks suggesting that the department of justice had become politicized and needs to be dismandled. >> i think it's damaging to democracy, i think it's damaging to the rule of law. i think it hurts severely president biden's legacy and the american people's confidence in our system of government. it was a terrible decision. >> this was the first lady responding to questions about that news. >> i support the pardon of my son. as nbc news news learned the president discussed the pardon with some of his closest aides

in the months since hunter's conviction in june according to people with direct knowledge of the discussions and said it was decided then that the president would publicly say he would not pardon his son even though privately it remained on the table. the white house denies that reporting and says the pardon decision was made over the weekend. joining us now nbc's gabe gutierrez. basil michael, and tim miller. so gabe, how is the white house responding to this ever increasing backlash? >> hi, jose. good morning. you played that sound from first lady dr. jill biden saying she supports the pardon and said that yesterday but president biden has not answered shouted questions while on his three-day trip to africa and white house officials aren't saying a whole lot publicly either. karine jean-pierre was pressed on this yesterday during a briefing aboard air force one and she has kept reiterating

that the president wrestled with this decision and that two things can be true, that he still believes in the justice system but believes in these cases that it was infected by wild politics and they went after his son. take a listen to some more of what she had to say yesterday aboard air force one. >> we have seen not just us, other people who have commented on the president's actions in the last 24 hours and lost track of time. you can see that hunter was singled out because his last name was biden, because he was the president's son. that's what we saw. and to the president believed enough is enough, and the president took action, and he also believes that they tried to break his son in order to break him. >> now the white house press secretary right there referring back to the same wording that president biden had in his written statement. now, i will talk a little bit about the timing of all this,

jose. this came just a few days before hunter biden was set to be sentenced on two separate criminal cases and the announcement of the pardon came just days after hunter biden's defense team had released a lengthy document outlining why they believe that this was a political persecution. the language in some of president biden's statement mirrored that document, at least some parts of it, and we've asked the white house whether president biden saw the document or whether he was briefed on it. we haven't heard baesident may people? >> karine jean-pierre said yesterday we should expect more pardons and clemency before the end of the president's term. we don't know who might be pardoned. >> how much did the incoming administration influence the president's decision? >> karine jean-pierre was asked about that and did say that the

president believed they would continue to go after his son. now, there is an outstanding question exactly was that the trigger for this? as we understand according to sources familiar with the discussion the president had been considering this pardon much earlier back in the summer, when hunter biden was convicted. so there's still a lot of questions about how much the incoming trump administration weighed on the president but the white house continues to insist that he took all of this under consideration and that he made his final decision this weekend. jose. >> gabe gutierrez at the white house. anna, senator tuberville said if it was his son he would pardon him too, but how damaging is it that the president and everyone insisted for months there would be no pardon, not even a commutation? >> i think this is one of the biggest lines of criticism so far is that repeatedly when

asked directly president biden said he would not pardon his son. his press secretary was asked over the last several months if he might consider a pardon and said no the answer was no. the complete 180 of that decision, in light of those repeated answers in the past, clearly raises a lot of questions and has left a lot of people wondering, you know, why. why say that for so long and so adamantly if this was to be the decision in the end. i think it's worth pointing out and you played that sound there from republican senator tuberville saying if it was my son i'd pardon him too. we've heard that expressed from different lawmakers saying they understand the actions of a father here, especially one who has spoken steadily over the years about his support for his son, struggling through his addiction issues as well, especially after losing a previous son as well, beau biden, how much the family rallied around hunter, and this is something i know from sources

close to the president how much this issue has weighed on him that his son could potentially face jail time over the years ahead. so we know that was in the background hire. i think the larger issue here, what you're hearing feeding the criticism is that what could this potentially fuel ahead. you've seen president-elect trump reference this pardon and asking whether or not it extends to the january 6th rioters, he calls the hostages or patriots. he's considered issuing pardons for those who attacked the capital on january 6th of 2020221 and undermines for people the argument that the institutionalist of president biden that said nobody is above the rule of law the legacy he leaves behind. does it fuel president-elect trump coming in being able to say this is what we talked about, the weaponization of the department of justice, it needs to be ended, rot needs to be removed. does it bolster some of his nominees' cases like kash patel at the fbi who he says will

completely reform and remake this law enforcement agency. what it leads to ahead i think we have yet to see, and that's where a lot of the criticism is based. >> basil, this is interesting because there are almost two sides or aspects of it. the one is what the president and his people are focusing on, which is, you know, enough is enough. they were trying to break hunter. they were trying to break me. it will not -- they will not be successful. that's for the specific case. taxes and the gun charge. but then the unusual and the sweeping nature of this pardon and the period of time it includes. it covers any crimes or potential crimes dating back to january of 2014. that's a different aspect of it entirely. what does it tell you? >> i think to your earlier question that's where the president is thinking about potential retaliation against trump or the justice department

in a trump administration that they may continue to use hunter biden as this sort of political football. i think, you know, and for all the hand wringing we're not going to get rid of the pl pardon. that's not going to happen. presidential pardons have been controversial. my issue with the decision from biden is that it didn't go far enough. he could have used the opportunity to talk about the persistent oversentencing and overcharging in our justice department broadly and how it affects community of color. that's where i would have taken it. >> which he could do january 20th. >> absolutely right. >> because it's clear that, again, there isn't as much of an issue over the merits of whether or not he should be pardoned. people don't like the fact that joe biden initially said he wasn't going to do it. my only concern after that is, if you're concerned about that, how are you going to behave in a trump administration that is likely going to put a lot of people who have he will pardon

in positions of power and talked about doing that with the ambassador of france. it's not like hunter biden is going to take this position of power, but we do know that president trump or president-elect trump is intending to do exactly that and if you look back at his earlier administration, 3400 cases of conflicts of interest, we should be talking about that also. i just want to make sure democrats understand that they've got a lot ahead of them, this is the least of their concerns. >> although both the newly picked ambassador to france the pardon was for specific crimes in a box. frank rich, clinton, specific box. there always seems to be with the exception of ford of nixon, a box. this is a broad, widespread, whatever may have happened, i don't know, whatever may have happened, you're clear. i want to play some of what joe

manchin said. listen to this. >> do you know of any fathers that wouldn't have done the same? that's all. and then basically i went one step further. i thought it would have been a little better move if he'd have pardoned trump too. you follow me? bygones be bygones and put the past behind him. >> you follow him. should president biden pardon president-elect trump? >> no. and i don't think that he should have done either. i'm sorry. i'm sympathetic to hunter biden and his problems and their family concerns, but look, i think this notion that i've noticed among democrats since the election, which is, donald trump won that means that the rules are out the window. our arguments for the rule of law and norms didn't work because he won this narrow election less than 1% and we can just not care about that anymore and we need to get ours. i just don't get it.

i don't think that makes sense. i think that that argument would be defensible if president biden acting to protect through pardons instead of the suggestion of president trump that joe manchin suggested, maybe the people on the target list in kash patel's book, government gangsters, lists a group of deep state individuals that the incoming administration will look at, pam bondi, incoming attorney general plans to prosecute the prosecutors, trying to figure out how to protect those people who worked to better democracy, been targeted like andy mccabe and others. those folks did the right thing and are going to be targeted potentially by this aspiring authoritarian government. hunter didn't. for me, i think it undermines the credibility, the arguments the democrats might be able to make in the next two years. i think the democrats will

regret giving up that high ground. i understand the impulse right now that when a man that has 34 felony counts and is adjudicated sexual assault, convict, somebody that doesn't care about rules and norms, he won maybe the rules are out the window. i understand that impulse. you i disagree with this. >> if you're looking at it in political chess this will be utilized by the other side as carte blanche to do all kinds of things maybe it would have been politically difficult to do had this not been carried out. >> yeah. i think there are probably those who make the credibility argument incoming president trump doesn't need an excuse to do the things he would want to do anyway but this gives him fuel, right. we saw that with him referencing the pardon on truth social, his incoming press secretary in an interview yesterday reference

the pardon to talk about some of the potential actions that incoming president-elect trump might take as well. these are the real questions. does he use this, does he continue to cite this, when he does become president again, for future actions f or as we say remaking the fbi or he says ending the weaponization of the department of justice however he and his team interpret that. could he fire career attorneys and say he's using this as justification as well? we don't know. and i think the point being made here is right that democrats to some degree have lost the moral authority to criticize some of those actions because of this and many who are speaking out against president biden's decisions now, against the pardon, are trying to maintain some of that. >> thank you so very much. in just 90s seconds, new fallout over two of president-elect trump's picks

for his next administration. we'll talk to a former fbi agent about why he's worried about one of them. breaking news, why south korea's president is declaring martial law. later, a powerful look at family separations at the border during trump's first administration. jacob soboroff shows us what he saw inside a detention facility as part of his documentary "separated". >> that was the time where i saw what had been rumored in the media, kids locked up in cages sitting on these concrete or linoleum floors. healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your

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16 past the hour. following breaking news out of south korea where an unannounced address this morning south korea's president declared martial law accusing opposition parties of sympathizing with north korea. south korea's parliament passed a resolution demanding martial law be lifted. these are some pictures that are coming out of the capital. a live look at protesters outside parliament there in the capital of seoul. joining us janis mackey frayer. what do we know about what led the president to take this step and there's been so much reaction to it, much of it people putting it out on social media? >> well, this is a dramatic political move by south korean

president yoon suk yeol in this late night tv broadcast said he had no choice but to resort to martial law to safeguard what he called free and constitutional order to protect the republic of korea from the threat of north korean communist forces and eradicate the despicable north korean anti-state forces. the main opposition in south korea has condemned the move, calling it unconstitutional and having a vote and calling on people to converge on parliament to have the vote on the declaration. the last time martial law was declared in south korea was in 1979. it means political activities are banned, protests pro hib bitted. the media is being censored. large crowds gathering outside the assembly building. inside the building shows people are gathering in there, too. police are around enforcing this decision, special forces reported to be inside as well.

now, the world is watching this. the biden administration says it's been in contact with the south korean government. that they're monitoring the situation closely. president biden has yet to chent on this declaration of martial law. things are moving quickly. there is a lot of public confusion and we're likely to see that grow through the night. jose. >> janice, i'm seeing here about 1:18 a.m. there in seoul at this hour, but do we know what triggered this? in other words, to say that the opposition is, you know, directly linked to the north korean dictatorship, do we know what prompted the president to do this at this time? >> at this time it seems the president was prompted by frustration. he's had difficulty in making moves in particular with the

budget. he had tried to get a very paired back, reduced budget passed through the national assembly and it was voted down. so he -- this really is a last straw measure for the president in encountering what he sees as opposition forces and he's attributing to north korea and support for north korea. what we also have to understand, the subtext and the context of the situation right now, jose, is that unification is off. there have long been the objective of people within the south korean government and within the north korean government that perhaps the korean peninsula can unify. over the past year we've seen north korea move more closely to russia. kim jong-un forging a friendship with vladimir putin.

and north korea effectively calling off any sort of negotiations with the south to the point where they've been blowing up roads that lead from north korea to the border. this is a volatile situation and on the part of the president a risky political move given the context of relations with north korea. >> north korea sending troops allegedly into the russian side. north korea's long established relationship in so many ways with china. janis mackey frayer, thank you very much. we'll stay closely to what is going on in seoul. some reports of opposition leaders having to jump over the fence surrounding are parliament building it's fenced off and not allowing people in.

jumping fences to get into parliament about 1:21 in the morning. thank you very much. up next we'll go live to capitol hill where some democrats are trying to push veteran members of their own party out of important committee positions. a deep dive into two of donald trump's most controversial administration picks. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. ♪ giving that's possible through the power of dell ai with intel. so those who receive can find the joy of giving back. i'm the team mascot, and boy, am i running late. ha, ha, what a hit! and if you don't have the right auto insurance coverage, the cost to cover that... might tank your season. ♪♪ so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, like me.

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president-elect donald trump is set to make his first trip abroad since the election. trump posted online that he will be going to paris on saturday to attend the reopening of the historic notre dame cathedral devastated by fire five years ago as his pick to be defense secretary pete hegseth back on capitol hill for more meetings with senators amid allegations of misconduct against him. allegations some republican senators are brushing aside.

>> our soldiers sometimes wild childs? yeah. that can happen. but it is very clear that this guy is the guy who, at a time when americans are losing confidence in their own military, in our ability to project strength around the world, that pete hegseth is the answer to that concern. >> with us now, nbc's vaughn hillyard and frank an msnbc national security analyst. so vaughn, good morning. what's a trump transition team saying about these allegations against hegseth? >> right. there are some senators who are asking questions including republican senator roger wicker of mississippi who suggested there should be a traditional fbi background check into pete hegseth and other nominees put forward by donald trump so they can better make the decision on whether they give the thumb's up

or down on these nominees. when it comes to the trump transition, right, they actually over the course of the last week as the stories started to trickle out, especially "the new yorker" piece as well as "the new york times" publishing an e-mail from several years ago from pete hegseth's mother to her son in which she was very clear in which she wrote as part of her e-mail that, quote, you have abused in so many ways women, quote, i have no respect for any man that belittles, lies, cheats, sleeps around and uses women for his power and ego. the mother of pete hegseth said that she disavowed her statements to her son in that e-mail saying that she apologized in their sentiments at the time of the e-mail were not an accurate description of her son. we have seen the trump transition team not necessarily go out on the front lines to defend him from the accusations and allegations that have been

reported in these articles, but we did hear from jason miller a senior adviser to donald trump during his campaign and this morning on television in which he was explicit by saying, quote, when it comes to pete hegseth, there aren't any concerns and we feel very good about his positioning for being confirmed by the senate. this is, of course, just days after matt gaetz dropped his nomination to be attorney general because of concern that there were going to be too many republican senators who rejected his nomination. pete hegseth is up on capitol hill for a reason. nearly two months out from when we should expect the confirmation proceedings to begin and that is an interesting it's going to be important for him to settle concerns that any of these senators, particularly republican senators, may have about him based off of these allegations that have come to light. >> so, vaughn, you get any sense of which of the candidates that the president-elect has picked for different cabinet positions are the ones that team trump

feels are the ones they should be more concerned about? >> i think if you're pete hegseth, if you're a tulsi gabbard, i think those two individuals particularly along with kash patel, are individuals who we know several republican senators would like to see fbi background collection on and so far the trump team is not committed to going through those standard procedures that past transitions, including trump administration number one's transition team, went through. and so it depends if they are able to get enough firm commitments or that becomes a priority for the -- these republican senators who could potentially be holdouts. if you're looking at the likes of pam bondi, her positioning to be confirmed is in better position than others who have deeper national security concerns about the ways in which they use the executive branch

institutions and the powers that come with those positions. >> let's focus in on donald trump's controversial pick kash patel, and you wrote in a piece for msnbc.com patel's particular problem goes far beyond competence. his record shows no devotion to the competition, blind alee glance to trum. spread the theory that the 2020 election was rigged against trump and has promoted the conspiracy of a deep state within government institutions whose aim it is to topple trump. what are you basing that on, frank? >> well, you don't have to listen to me or read my column. we just need only listen to his own words. he said on podcasts and in interviews his intentions would be to go after the media, prosecutors, investigators, dismantle a so-called fake deep state. his language echos pam bondi, same words used, her, of course,

nominee for a.g. the two of them together working together look a hijacking of the criminal justice system federally, and i want to point out that the discussion around fbi background checks here's what trump within the last week has hinted at, he'll try -- he may try to appease the senate judiciary committee permitting background checks only after in office, after he will place kash patel into an acting position as fbi director and guess who will oversee the so-called fbi background investigations, someone unlikely to want to see any derogatory information. that 200-day acting period can extend beyond seven months if there's wrangling and dispute within the senate judiciary committee. with regard to hegseth from the national security perspective, someone who paid off one woman, his own mother calls him a

womanizer and abuser, what that does for our foreign adversaries, we have somebody who might be black mailable, subject to extortion. what else is there out there we don't know? i can assure you our adversaries are working on that issue right now. >> yeah. the key issue, that just doesn't go for this time, people that have some perceived weaknesses could be blackmailed by foreign governments and foreign entities, enemies of the united states. frank, the issue of fbi background checks, why would an fbi background check be different from other kinds of background checks? >>. >> this concept trump is allegedly using a private firm is laughable. in an fbi background check the fbi has access across the u.s. intelligence community, the national law enforcement

community, to do file checks, to see what does the agency, ha do we have on tulsi gabbard's trip to damascus, embrace of vladimir putin. on a classified level no way a private investigator firm can get to the bottom of that and the senate judiciary committee would be flying blind to the most essential information they need to maintain their advice and consent powers under the constitution. >> frank and vaughn, thank you. senate democrats elected chuck schumer as their leader as we're watching the house where jamie raskin is challenging jerry nadler to be the ranking democrat on the judiciary committee. joining us jake sherman, an nbc news news political contributor. great seeing you, my friend. what are these moves all about? >> i think they signal, jose,

democrats after the election, after joe biden was pushed out of the election because of concerns about his age and after nancy pelosi, steny hoyer and jim clyburn stepped aside, they are ready, house democrats ready, to put new people into positions of power. in the house democratic caucus they have no term limits for committee chair. zero. you have someone like anita velasquez been across the small business committee for 26 years, across the committees no significant challenges and mechanism to inject fresh blood into the leadership of the democratic caucus. so i think that's what's behind it. i think democrats really want to put their best foot forward in battling trump and i think we've seen this before. we've seen people both republicans and democrats, make the case in the past in different political scenarios, but i think quite plainly, that democrats believe jamie raskin

will be a better foil to jim jordan, the republican chairman of the judiciary committee, than jerry nadler. >>, and i'm thinking about this, jake, it's december 3rd. so we have the presidential elections, right, and then thanksgiving, and then we took all the thanksgiving stuff down and we put up the trees and stuff like that. the white house has already been decorated for christmas. and california still has an undecided house seat? >> yeah. that's right. >> how are things shaping for the gop? >> it ain't looking good if you're a house republican. they'll keep the majority but the race between adam and john in california looks like it's going to adam gray the democrat, which will narrow mike johnson's majority to zero votes. a fi in the house of representatives does not pass if a bill ties, whatever the tie would be, depending on the breakdown of the house, but they could be -- i mean basically in

effect, pushes the house republican and senate republican agenda, donald trump's agenda, into the spring and early summer. that's the tax cuts and all sorts of things the republicans want to get done, it will be difficult for them to get that done if they have a zero seat cushion. it could be done, doesn't look likely. >> zero seat cushion means is there a possibility now that actually the house could switch? >> no. not really. because -- not really because of a host of factors. doesn't seem like it at this point. seems like the republicans will have, you know, effectively a one seat cushion, but all of that said, on a day-to-day basis if a bunch of republicans are out of town f there's a funeral, someone gets sick, dies, their kids have a dentist appointment they have to take them to, democrats could be in the majority for a day which doesn't

mean anything, republicans are the house majority, but shows how perilous the position is here on capitol hill. >> jake sherman, thank you. appreciate it. >> thanks. >> up next new reporting shedding light on rfk jr.'s past after trump picks him to lead the health and human services department. and soon president biden will be speaking at the national slavery museum in angola. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. r diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. r. it kills 99.9% of bad breath germs for five times more cleaning power than brushing and flossing alone. get a next level clean... ahhhhh with listerine. feel the whoa! ♪ like a relentless weed, moderate to severe ulcerative colitis symptoms can keep coming back. start to break away from uc with tremfya... with rapid relief at 4 weeks. tremfya blocks a key source of inflammation.

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38 past the hour. new details on one of donald trump's more controversial cabinet picks, robert f. kennedy jr. who trump has chosen to be secretary of health and human services. "the new york times" has a new profile including how trauma and addiction changed his life. quote, friends and close associates say his choices are best understood as a quest to live up to the legacy of his father and namesake robert f. kennedy, former attorney general, senator, and liberal icon who was assassinated running for president in 1968. with us now is one of the journalists behind that great profile, "new york times" reporter susan [ inaudible ]. great seeing you. struck when reading it, which everybody should, said i am i, plus my circumstances.

everyone enters life and goes through life being impacted and changed by one's circumstances. >> and i always feel as a journalist to understand somebody you have to understand their upbringing and their parents and what got them to where they are. it's so important. and when you think about robert f. kennedy jr. and what he went through just even in the first 20 years of his life, it just is a way to sort of understand him. it doesn't justify anything. there's circumstances that are very important. >> what are some of those that you think are more impactful in his life? >> early on he went through the assassination of his uncle, john f. kennedy, then his father when he was running for president in 1968. and those -- he's talked about those, that those circumstances, particularly the assassination of his father, led him to drug abuse and in his 20s he was arrested for possession of

heroin, he was an addict. he has hepc from using needles. these are just in the first 25, 26 years of his life. but then what you see he became an addict, and he went through rehab, and he came out and says he had hasn't used drugs since then but what you've seen in his life is other extreme behavior that he has cycled through, and i think his addiction runs through his life, not just with drugs, which is, obviously, important, was formative, but other addictions and sort of extreme behavior he's had. some of it people say not only has it been extreme, it's been dangerous when you look at the rhetoric he's espousing about vaccines. >> many or some the kennedy family had that experience had to go through drug addiction and alcohol -- >> a lot. >> addiction. in his particular case, how does he go from, you know, being like you were just mentioning

experiencing those traumas in life and then becoming an environmental lawyer and then, you know, having some would say extremely controversial thoughts and concepts about vaccines? how do you go -- >> that's the million dollar question. we do see him very successful environmental lawyer. he worked on cases with other lawyers that got national headlines. he got a lot of attention for that. but had sort of a track that looked very promising and successful and not extreme. and then he moves into and almost leaves the environmental career behind him -- he still has a law firm that does that with a partner of his but for the most part he went head-long into vaccine, vaccine rhetoric and talking the dangers of vaccines. i don't know what the break was and where that happened, but you've seen other extreme things in his life, whether it's he had flandsering that broke up his second marriage, in 2010, it was

divorce filing there and a lot was his extramarital affairs. he kept a diary at one point that became parts of it -- not became public but reported on. so i don't know where the break was, but he does cycle in. it's not just the vaccines. i want to make that clear. he also was saying that aids was caused by poppers, drugs you can inhale. >> there's also separately been very focused on the planet and on, for example, he's gone into the whole thing of food and raw milk and getting chemicals out of, you know, foods. >> some of the things he says is interesting. they're logical. most people would agree, we probably need less additives in our food, but then it veers into this area of really extreme, you know, rhetoric. >> yeah. >> susan craig, always great seeing you. appreciate it. following breaking news from florida right now, former

president donald trump is among the mourners at a public memorial service for three palm beach county sheriff's deputies. the deputies died after they were hit by an suv last month while conducting traffic enforcement. trump is attending today's memorial service and not expected to speak. at any moment president biden is due to speak about america's history of enslavement at angola's national museum of slavery. we'll take you there live as soon as he begins. coming up more than a thousand children separated at the border during trump's first administration are still waiting to be reuniteded with their families. jacob soboroff has been covering the stories and here with a preview of his documentary "separated." this was a policy created to separate children from their parents. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. nr waiting years for it to grow? new pantene with more pro-vitamins, plus biotin & collagen.

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>> i was at a kid's birthday party where i got another call saying we're going to let you into the epicenter of separations. and that place called ursula, the central processing center in mcallen, texas. i still remember i was wearing a light blue buttoned down shirt, had my notepad. that was the time where i saw what had been talked about and rumored in the media, kids locked up in cages sitting on these concrete or linoleum floors. >> and jacob soboroff, executive producer of "separated" is with us. what a treat. >> thank you so much. >> more than 5,000 kids were

separated under that trump administration policy. what struck you the most of that policy and where are those kids? >> i think that's the most important question. there's as many as 1400 who are still -- >> today? >> do not have confirmed reunifications today. when errol morris, and i set out to make this film about what a republican appointed judge called one of the most shameful expecters in the history of our country -- chapters in our country, how the government could have done something deliberately cruel, that's not an opinionated statement, that's based on fact, how it could have been hap hazardously implemented. it was child abuse according to the american academy of pediatrics. we shared these questions. we never would have known four years ago when we set out today as i was talking to you donald trump the man responsible for that policy would be on the verge of walking back into the white house today. >> in 2019, i specifically asked

then president trump about his family separation policy. take a look at what he said back then. >> the zero tolerance policy was it a mistake? >> it's not a mistake. we want to have strong borders. it's not a mistake. let me explain something. children -- >> border -- thousands -- >> we had separation -- when i became president, president obama had a separation policy. i didn't have it. he had it. under the obama plan -- >> sir we're talking about your plan. >> i'm the one that put people together. they separated. i put them together. >> you did not. >> you say that policy is really the brainchild of then attorney general sessions and tephen miller. >> i will never forget that day when you did that interview with donald trump because that was one year to the day that donald trump signed the executive order ending the policy he himself put into place. what did he say?

i didn't like the sight and feeling of the families being separated not because he felt that way, look what he said there, he wanted to do it again, because of public pressure. that's what the film reminds me about people stood up in opposition to this policy. it's different than the moment we're in today where immigration has become such a divisive political football. it was like x-ray vision of what the immigration system was doing to chin, ripping them apart from their parents only to harm them, scare other people away from coming to this country. >> there was historic numbers of deportations under obama and george w. bush, but the specific policy of ripping apart parents from their children, was never instituted in any of those administrations. >> never. i'm glad you mentioned that. we wouldn't have gotten to this point without bipartisan years of bipartisan punitive based deterrence immigration process that treats migrants as criminals. nobody has done what trump has ever done.

and perhaps we're on the verge with mass deportations. >> are you worried about that? >> i think everybody out there subjected to family separation by another name that's what mass deportation is is worried about that. that's what you hear when you talk to people. >> i have to tell people it's important they see the film, and i'm so glad we're going to be seeing it here on msnbc. i thank you. much admiration to you. >> likewise. thank you so much. >> thanks. "separated" premiers here on msnbc on saturday at 9:00 p.m. eastern, 6:00 p.m. pacific. if you're in the new york city area catch a screening tonight at the center with a question and answer between jacob and "the new york times" michael barbero. scan the qr code on your screen and get ticketses there tonight. turning back now to our breaking news out of south korea. moments ago south korea's opposition leader said the emergency declaration of martial law has been lifted to the country's parliament voted to revoke the move made earlier

today. these are live pictures. we're talking about 1:52 a.m. the protests outside of the parliament in the capital seoul. joining us now is victor cha, senior foreign affairs contributor, president of the geopolitics and chair for studies. what's your reaction to what's going on there? >> it's really totally unexpected when the news came out i called people in korea to ask them what was going on, and they had no idea that this was happening inside and outside the government. completely unexpected. it was clearly a response to efforts by the opposition party to use legislative majority to block the budget. but the reference that the president made to anti-state forces it's not clear where all that is coming from, if it's north korean inspired. there's a lot of right now we don't have a clear sense of what

motivated this action. >> because it's a substantial and important action, right? declaring martial law has a significant impacts on the country and there is no -- i mean what did the president say was the reason behind him calling for this drastic action? >> well, again, he made ambiguous references to the opposition party working with anti-state forces implicating perhaps north korean communist elements involving this. it's really not very clear and as you said like once in a place like korea a vibrant democracy the president to call for martial law, harkens back to the 1970s and '80s when generals turned into politicians did declare martial law. so this was like the nuclear bomb of political moves, and i'm not sure how he gets out of this. the legislature has now voted to overturn the martial law and you

can see people are out in the streets protesting. part of this effort was to stop people from protesting in the streets. it's created massive protests in the streets. >> thank you very much. i'm going to go right to angola. the president of the united states, first sitting american president, to visit that country is about to speak. >> angola. government civil society, students, young leaders, staff of the national slavery museum, distinguished guests, i sincerely mean this when i say thank you for being here today. thank you for allowing me to be here. it's an honor to be with you today in angola. just got off the phone with the vice president telling her i'm sorry she's not with me to be here today. you know, you and angola, the vibrant city, and look, not the city, the city i know is not angola, but angola in a vibrant

city, and i'm joined by members of the united states congress, senior officials of my administration and american business and civic leaders. we think that it's important we get together. we thank all people in angola for your warm hospitality. please sit down. i'm sorry. i want to ensure you all have seats. we are gathered in a solemn location because to fully consider how far two countries have come in our friendship, you have to remember how we began. we hear them in the wind and the waves. young women, young men, born fre in the highlands in angola, only to be captured, bound and forced into a death march along this very coast to this spot by slave traders in the year 1619. the building next to us baptized into foreign faith against their will. their names changed against their will to anthony

[ inaudible ] isabella and then condemned to a slave ship, bound. back together. a third of those souls did not survive the journey. one third died on the way. made it to the british colony of virginia where they were sold into servitude and became two of the first enslaved americans in a place that 150 years later would become the united states of america. they had a son considered the first child of african descent born in america william tucker. began to have slavery in the united states. cruel, dehumanizing, our nation's original sin, original sin. one that haunted america and casts a long shadow ever since.

the bloody civil war nearly tore my nation apart, the long battle with jim crow into the 1960s, the civil rights an voting rights movement which got me involved in public life, american cities were burned, to the unfinished reckoning of racial injustice today. [ inaudible ] all account in number of all enslaved people shift to america. today millions of african americans have reached loilg. as i said at the u.s. africa leader summit held in washington two years ago, our people -- the heart and deep and profound connection that forever binds africa and the united states together. we remember the stolen men and women and children who were brought to our shores in chains subjected to unimaginable

cruelty. with us today are three americans direct descents of anthony and isabella, first enslaved americans in america. wanda tucker, hamilton, virginia. there you are, wanda. god love you. her brother vincent. [ applause ] as well. thank you for being here. the tuckers learned about history around the dinner table that led wanda here to angola a few years ago. she didn't speak the language but that didn't matter. when she arrived she felt something profound like she had come home. she called it a connection without words. ladies and gentlemen, i'm here today to honor that connection between our people and to pay tribute to the generations of

angol lanes and american families like the tuckers who have served in government d i've served in government over 50 years. looks like i'm 40 years old but i've been around the government for 50 years. but in that 50 years i've learned a lot. most importantly i've learned that history can be hidden. it cannot and should not be erased. it should be faced. it's our duty to face our history. the good, the bad, and the ugly, the whole truth. that's what great nations do. that's why i've chosen to speak here at the national flav slavery museum today just as i toured. that's why your president visited the national museum in washington, d.c., the second most visited museum in the state. he saw what i see, a stark contradiction between my