listen now. president-elect will likely

inherit a chaotic situation in the middle east that we are getting a picture of what a donald trump cabinet will look like. in israel, new hampshire, from msnbc headquarters. it's good to be back with you on the second hour of chris johnson reports. can he win them over? donald trump picked to lead the fbi will decide whether he lands the job. what they are saying now. plus the president-elect to paris. donald trump heading to france to celebrate the grand reopening of the notre dame cathedral and we just learned that joe biden will be there as well. which he had a face-to-face with? billionaire glow the legal hit elon musk just took taking $56 billion out of his pocket. why a judge rejected the historic package.

also inside the justice department to mark three decades of investigating and preventing potential abuse of power by law enforcement for our nbc news reporters are following all the leads development first to capitol hill were compass to lead is getting a mixed reception from republicans. we've been tracking that. what's elitist, ryan? see magazines pretty clear that in order for kash patel to win affirmation at the fbi director that he'll need every single republican to get on board with this nomination. he only has the luxury of losing about the republican vote because he won't get a single democrat to vote for his nomination and at this point, republicans at least seem open to the idea of giving him a fair shot. there's no doubt that kash patel is a controversial nominee. he someone who was heavily involved in the efforts during the 2020 election and has said some pretty radical and sometimes controversial things about what he'd like to do at

the fbi if he were to become the fbi director. clean house in many ways. that is going to draw skepticism from many of the senators up here on capitol hill. but the republicans that we talked to have said they at least want to give them the opportunity to prove that he is up to the job. they are going to want to have an extensive vetting of him as a candidate. that means having interviews and conversations with him for public hearing as a result of this process. but also an extensive background check on patel to make sure there isn't anything in his background that would serve as a conflict of interest or would preclude him from being able to take on the responsibility as fbi director. there's been some controversy around whether or not the trump transition will allow those fbi background checks to go through or if instead they just offer a background check as being conducted by an independent third-party. there are many senators that want to see the fbi do this that they believe they are the best equipped to handle the investigation like this. i can

be the difference between whether or not kash patel wins confirmation. if he gets the vetting that many republican senators are looking for. 's me matt ryan, thank you. and donald trump's plans for first trip out of the country in a year and a half, and this is to paris that could bring him face-to-face with first lady jill biden. recovering the trump transition. why do the president-elect even decide to go in the first place? >> reporter: this will not only be his first trip overseas since winning the election but also since 2023 when he last visited his golf clubs in europe . for donald trump, this is a notable first trip. going to be for the reopening of the notre dame cathedral was sheerly burned down in 2019. but of course emmanuel macron will be at that ceremony on saturday as well. for these two men, this is the relationship that spans back to the first trump administration. the two men, macron flattering

donald trump to avoid tariff worsens donald trump selection . emmanuel macron has been outspoken about tariff wars drawing in france with the united states, but also particularly with china in the midst of china's mass electric vehicle production. this is at a moment in time coming days in which charles kushner was nominated or chosen to be nominated by donald trump to be the u.s. ambassador to france. of course charles kushner is the father of jared kushner. so for donald trump, by going to paris, this is a tacit endorsement about the importance of the two countries, the allies' relationship and also for donald trump, it's not just justin trudeau coming down here to palm beach or the new native general secretary coming to palm beach to meet with him directly, but also a willingness of donald trump to

leave the united states to go and build relationships with other foreign leaders. >> thank you. now to the loss for elon musk illegal build to get his $56 billion tesla pay package from 2018 reinstated. the tech reporter laura joins me . in the realm of the world's richest man, this isn't going to change his lifestyle, but what does this exactly need for him? >> reporter: thank you so much for having me. elon musk stopped compensation from the 2018 pay package and it ended up being worth over hundred billion dollars for yesterday's closing price and he's fired up. obviously he wants that money. he and tesla are planning to appeal the case to the supreme court and hoping judges will overturn chancellor mccormick's opinion. if he doesn't prevail,

shareholders were only about 10% more of tesla stock. almost like a buyback. by the way, must is very political. he's attacking delaware's authority of the state has the longest history of handling this corporate dispute and now musk is to incorporate your business in this space and he accuses the judge of corruption with no evidence and called her a leftist activist posing as a judge. now he's trying to start a movement of businesses to incorporate outside of the state . >> laura, thank you for that. let's go to the justice department now and their thirty- year commemoration of holding police accountable and eliminating misconduct. nbc's ryan riley is following this for us. tell us more about what happened there. >> reporter: it's really remarkable, this police oversight that started 30 years ago. you can trace it alongside technology. it came about in the aftermath of the l.a. riots and the beating of rodney

king on home camcorders what captured it originally and then fast-forward almost 30 years down the road to a recent memory where you have the video of george floyd being killed. so this is -- traces along with technology and this is how this came about. take a look at what breonna taylor's mother had to a >> i never imagined one day -- so i'm five years and i don't feel -- don't understand why she's not here. i know it happened. it still doesn't make sense to me. she didn't deserve this. no one does, for that matter. it's hard to continue to watch

people die at the hands of the police. >> reporter: the context is critical because a couple of months, will probably see that pendulum swing once again when it comes to police reform. the civil rights division is one of those areas where there's a real significant change within the justice department from a change of administration and particularly when you're going from one party to the next. previously the trump administration holdback on all these pattern and practice investigations are pulled back on the investigation and baltimore and previously the attorney general had criticized these kinds of reports a is anecdotal even though they were comprehensive and based in ferguson, for example, on an overall review of all the work that the ferguson police department for example is doing. you can definitely expect some backtracking on that over the next several years and something that will be covering closely and watching out for.

>> ryan, thank you. coming up in 90 seconds, did the hunter biden pardon, was it a political gift to trump two pardon january 6th rioters? with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. cool right? look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti... he's melting! oh jeez... nooo... oh gaa... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ (vo) this holiday, verizon will turn your old or broken phone into a gift. trade in any phone, in any condition and get samsung galaxy s24+ with circle to search, and watch and tab. all three on us. survive the holidays with samsung, powered by verizon. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to?

can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. (agent) we've always said never sell a house in the winter. that's not true. and build a treatment plan with you. with opendoor, you can skip the showings and get a real cash offer. you are disguising my voice, right? (director) ahhh, of course. (agent with altered voice) foof, just checking. (vo) it's true. opendoor makes selling easy, in any season. president biden is overseas now but here at home, new criticism. his parting of his son hunter under fire from all sides. job bidens pardon of hunter biden proves president trump's

campaign promise to end the weaponization of our justice system needs to happen. >> a pardon at this point will be used against icing democrats against politicizing it which is certainly what president trump plans to do. this will be used against us when we are fighting the misuses that are coming from the trump administration. headlight seven largely critical for publications that lean right, left and in between. the new yorker says the decision undermines joe biden's legacy and adds indeed, regardless of whether biden age, now 82, or his character is to blame, the statement he released about the party makes it clear he does not grasp the differences between his responsibilities to his job and his responsibilities to his family. nbc's kendall is reporting from dc.

ken, is there concern within the doj that joe biden's decision is emboldening trumps accusations against the department? >> reporter: absolutely, he acknowledged that biden had the absolute right and the authority to pardon his son, but they really take issue with the justification that he gave for it and the shots essentially that he took at the justice system. the accusation that it's politicized. as a conduit donald trump has been saying for years without evidence and they fear that this is playing right into donald trump's hands. is not just the justice department officials, donald trump sawyer during the russia investigation has has become a critic has told us he believes trump will use this pardon as a rationale for pardoning, for example, january 6th felons. trumbull do what he's going to do but the public and his supporters will now buy into that rationale and will see this as everybody does it kind of a

situation. and as you saw there, democratic members of congress criticizing this. senator gary peters saying this was just wrong and was going to further erode confidence in the department of justice and in our judicial system at large. so widespread concern not necessarily about the pardon itself, but the rationale that president biden gave when he said his son had been the victim of selective prosecution. several courts have concluded that that is not the case and that there's no evidence for that. schema i wonder if you think, governor, this helps and whatever pardons he might decide to give, including for january 6th rioters. >> i think all the criticism we've heard in this little segment means everything that needs to be said has been said, except i haven't set it yet. everybody laid it out here as clear as you can see. i mean the biggest problem in all this is biden said he

wouldn't do it. he said he wouldn't do it over and over and over again and then he turned around and did it . we are at a point in our country where people are questioning the strength and the decency and fairness of our institutions, and then this happens. this was just a big, big mistake and it will pass, but of course republicans who are trump stirrers, jumpers or anyone who's just watching will say they did it, and we do it. it just was a terrible mistake in my judgment. everybody understands why a father would do it. people say that, but don't go around saying you're not going to do and then turn around and do it. it was multiple times, chris. it's done. we move on. >> multiple times whether or not he would consider pardoning hunter and he did say knows -- know. understanding all the arguments you just spoke about and the

idea that he did say that and did something else, do you think there's just as many americans discouraged -- the scourge of drug addiction is so widespread. you know what's going on in ohio. everybody out there knows someone who has known someone who has an addiction problem. do you think that maybe they think, i might do the same thing . there's at least one member of congress who said if it was my kid, i might do the same thing. and understand he's already been put through the ringer. i'm not making that as an excuse but you think the american people might not be so tough on him as some politicians are. >> no, i think the public is going to say, as i said, some people, i just talked to a guy down the hall who said i wish he hadn't done it, but i can understand it but i wish he hadn't done it.

i think one of the problems that we have people, the many people in the country i think the system doesn't work for them and there's a group of people here that get better than a fair chance than what they get. this is sort of emblematic of it your people are going to look at it and they are going to be kind of disgusted and say this would never happen for me, but it happened for them because they are powerful and rich and they are favored. that's the problem. it's a further undermining in faith and basic institutions. that's when we come apart. there's republicans and democrats, we lose trust in the justice system, the justice department, the fbi or any of these other things and this is just a further example of, maybe it is a two tiered system. as a point to talk about health care is a is a two tier system. that's an insidious and dangerous thing, but there's reason for people to suspect that and to think that.

i ultimately think these institutions, all of them, including a decision like this, they need to be re-examined. we need to change. that's what people voted for. they want change. so we don't need to throw the institutions out but there's going to be change inside of them that will make for a healthier america and maybe less skepticism and cynicism on the part of the public. >> i mentioned it, we have the sound of tommy turberville who was asked about the decision that joe biden maiden here's what he said. >> i'll put it this way. it was my son, i pardon him too. here's what i didn't like. don't lie to us. don't tell us you're not going to do it and then do it. that's not what a president should be like if you're going to do it, at the end of this day when somebody asked him that, i'll make that decision later. >> is out again what it boils down to? the pardon can be defended, but i didn't repeated promises, i

mean his popularity frankly was already low. he'd won some admiration for stephanie sy for kamala harris, even though some people said it was too late. i wonder if history will look at this differently? they look at the broader picture than what we are looking at now work >> i don't think so, chris. it's pretty clear and turberville who said it clearly, he said i may pardon my own son, what i wouldn't have made a promise. is tough when it pulls at the heartstrings. i had to figure out whether there were not so much pardons, but whether we were there wiping the slate clean. trying to look at the extenuating circumstances but these are hard decisions. don't say you're never going to do it and then do it. i'm seeing -- of being repetitive but i'm concerned about the fact that there are so many people who say the

system is just terrible and i don't trust it anymore. we need leaders to restore trust and let's hope that trump can start that process. we need better leaders are going to play by the rules, who are going to be square with people and not deceive them. or maybe he should've said i shouldn't have said it, but i can tell you, it was a bad decision. i don't think history will look back at this and say we need to understand the broader context. i don't think so. >> can and governor, stay with us. coming up on chris jansing reports, widespread problems throughout the great lakes states including where the governor is. look at the scary moment. in erie pennsylvania, a train fell into an 18 wheeler and got stuck in the snow and ice while trying to get over the track. will have a report from that area and the forecast next.

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right now millions of people in michigan, pennsylvania and ohio are bracing for whether and windy snowfall. in erie, pennsylvania, this car could barely make it off the side of the street before a good samaritan give it an extra push. boy, do they need to push. city hall says garbage trucks there now could take two extra days to reach home.

and snow was so heavy in ohio it way down the roof of this high school northeast of cleveland. the superintendent search our local affiliate after announcing students can't come back to that campus. >> my job and my priority is to make sure students are educated . so we will have to relocate them for the time being. >> erin is live in erie, pennsylvania. what are you seeing there, aaron >> >> reporter: all the snow is causing havoc on the roadways in michigan yesterday on i-94, there was a 17 vehicle pileup, including three semitrucks. one driver was seriously injured. authorities there say the pileup was caused by bad weather and people driving too fast. they are urging folks to go slow on the roads. meanwhile here in pennsylvania, they have been digging people out of their homes following that massive dump of snow over the weekend. people here saying they've

never seen anything like it. >> i haven't been able to get my car out. it's been a couple of days so i don't know if will be able to get it out anytime soon. >> reporter: expert saying the exact heating bills to rise by 10% compared with last year and they are directing lower income households to state programs to help pay for part of those bills in addition to the department of energy who's urging folks to set their thermostat to 68 to 70 degrees during the day and lower in those overnight hours when they're sleeping and away from home. back to you. stomach nbc meteorologist bill is here with me in the studio tracking the forecast. ain't over yet and some parts of the country. >> is still snowing there. we don't have a big huge snow that we did the last couple of days in the snow will get worse in the days ahead so this is our

break day. we have a couple of spots of concern. strauss was moving into central new york and this is dangerous because the ground is frozen cold now. it could be fine, driving in clear and then driving to a snow squall and that's when you get cars pileup and things like that. we show you those pictures of the high school partial roof collapse and it still snowing there but now starting to drift. it will end today. now we will have what we call a small weak winter storm going through in that blast of cool air behind it, more lake effect snow. later on tonight we watch the snow move into northern portions of minnesota, wisconsin and michigan and then it will blowdown tomorrow through michigan. still breaks out in areas from western new york to central new york as we go through wednesday evening. wednesday night overnight is and everyone will get a coating of snow and snow place in new york city likely won't stick, but other areas it will be plenty cold enough. anywhere and what you see here, we get to the blue, that's

where you have to do some shoveling and plowing. that's all of western michigan. a good section of northwestern pennsylvania, upstate new york and then vermont, new hampshire and maine. later amounts between boston and hartford. a lot of big cities along i-95 will not be getting snow. very cold today and then as the system comes through, it will be cold behind it. chicago, 14 thursday morning. bismarck negative two. not even including the wind chill. minneapolis, not quite as brutal in the northeast but morning lows will continue to be on the cold side down into the 20s and into areas of maine . by the time we get to the weekend, quiet for travel. tracking some rain saturday and sunday moving out of the south into areas of the southeast. once we get past the snow event as we go through tomorrow into thursday, then a couple days of cold and then a big reprieve. everyone should feel by the end

of the weekend temperatures where they should be at the beginning. >> which is where? not long enough is the answer for me. shopping goes travel deals. >> i'm not leaving my house. the white house responding to . department says the u.s. isgrea storming the postelection alternative for democratic social media users who are leaving elon musk for blue sky. alexandria ocasio-cortez has $1 million. she said people are leaving twitter because it's not fun anymore and no one is obligated to be on a platform they don't enjoy. we'll be right back.

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in the last hour, we have new information from the white house about south korea's president declaring martial law and the parliament demanded he lift. kelly o'donnell is on the white house for us. tell us what more we know. >> reporter: what we are learning from officials here at the white house, they did not have any advanced warning from the president about his plan to declare martial law and that's notable because there is a strong partnership between the united states and the republic of korea, and the president has

been a guest at the white house. he was part of the president summit at camp david. so he has close ties there. at the same time, it would be great concern from the administration here trying to be in touch with the counterparts at various level, president biden is out of the country visiting angola so he's out of physician, not here at the white house, but other levels of government, the ministerial level and department of defense and so forth. earlier at the state department in their briefing, reporters pressed the spokespeople there about what kinds of contacts have taken place so far. this is a country that is a strong u.s. partner and they're having a situation that challenges democratic norms and the u.s. of course was to find out more. here's part of the exchange that took place of the state department. >> i'm going to keep private

diplomatic conversations as that. i'll keep them private. what i can say is that we were not notified of president yoon's announcement in advance. we are watching the recent development with grave concern. we are seeking to engage with our korean underparts at every level both here in the united states and in seoul. >> reporter: in the back and forth with the reporters, they were trying to find out if anyone in the u.s. government has spoken to president yoon directly and as you indicate as you saw from his indications, they are trying to eat things private. that suggests that such a call has not taken place, typically when there are leader level calls, those are often disclosed. not always. but it gives you a sense of the level of concern from the u.s. government about being able to reach counterparts in the republic of korea to find out what's going on. the importance of stability but remember

there's a large u.s. presence in that part of the world militarily which of course goes back to the korean war and has been a vital part of those relationships. the biden administration has tried to do a lot in building the partnership as a counter to china. so when there's any kind of disturbance in the republic of korea, it's notable and it has an impact on u.s. relations. in these early hours of what's playing out there, the biden administration wants to get a handle on who they can talk to and who is in charge, and what's going on. we're just learning that the south korean president says he will lift martial law after that vote by the parliament. so that new development happening in just the last couple of minutes. in the meantime, we have breaking news from capitol hill where democratic congressman has just introduced a resolution to force a vote of the full house. he wants them to release the ethics report on former congressman matt gates. nbc's ryan is on capitol hill.

a new privileged resolution. it means a vote has to happen within a couple of legislative days, right? what can you tell us? >> reporter: the clock is ticking now. it would take mcguire and his to take place within two legislative days and it comes from congressman sean from illinois. this was put on before the thanks giving holiday but because they were resets over thanksgiving, the resolution lapsed. so we needed to reintroduce it and it by reintroducing the legislation and providing when the ethics committee has released reports even though a member of congress , that's the big issue that the house ethics committee is pointing to that because former congressman matt gates is no longer an active member of congress, that the house ethics committee does not have jurisdiction over him anymore as a private citizen. so they believe the information has to come into the light of

day even though gates is no longer going to be considered as the next attorney general. listen to what he said on the floor. schema given the serious nature of the allegations against representative gaetz, the house of representatives publicly released its report on its investigation undermines the committee's credibility and the safety, dignity and integrity of the legislative proceedings of the house. >> reporter: now the question is, will it pass? i think that's an open question now, given the fact that the stakes are not nearly as high as they were even just a little more than two weeks ago. matt gaetz is not being considered for any position in the administration, not for now . not any position that would need to be confirmed by the senate and so you can see republican members of congress and some democrats argue that this isn't worth the trouble. i think what you will hear democrats say as part of the remarks as we don't know what's

next for matt gaetz. he could be appointed to a position of trump administration that does not require senate confirmation and it might be important to have this information out there. then of course there's gaetz' political future. does he run for governor of florida and as he tried to be involved in government moving forward? they believe this information still needs to see the light of day given how much the house ethics committee put into it. even mind if it falls along party lines, vulcans have a narrow majority. they could lose only a couple of votes and most democrats will vote to release this information. so we'll have to see over the next couple of days when this vote makes it to the floor, whether or not it has enough votes to pass and whether or not we will see the house ethics report that we talk so much about over the past month or so. >> more drama on the hill. thank you. coming up, diagnosing the state of american health care. we will take the pulse of americans are demanding change and whether rfk junior is the

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(animatronic santa) look at me! i am festive! donald trump promises to make america healthy again with a radical shakeup of health care. he's intertwined that vision with robert f kennedy junior, tapping him for the top in health and human services. is what he told my colleague a day after the election.

>> president trump has told me that he wants to see measurable concrete results in these two years in terms of immeasurable diminishment. i will do things that clean up the corruption. we have 1000 ingredients in our foods that are illegal here, that are illegal in other countries. >> reporter: you would seek to abandon it. >> i knew the vaccines in may 2020 we're not going to protect against transmission because it was reading the studies. >> he was talking about covid and while kennedy's opposition to back means drove maga supporters to him, the new york times reports that many americans were actually open to a level of massive health care reform, believing the establishment has been quote, dismissive and even correct.

national correspondent jack healy joins us now and director of boston university's center on infectious diseases, dr. battaglia. and former governor john kasich is back with us once again. jack, people are frustrated with the system as it is now, but is it clear from your conversations that what people want is a complete shakeup? >> some of them do. i think we should maybe start by talking about some baselines which is lame most americans do trust their doctors and have a high degree of trust in the health care system. even after covid. but since covid and since the pandemic, there has been some erosion in trust and i think that rfk and trump were able to capitalize on that sense of discontent, that sense of distrust since the pandemic.

with rules on vaccines and lockdowns and some of the retrospective kind of backing we done of the pandemic restrictions. americans we talked to after the election said that health was a huge part of their vote in the sense that they were set up with the status quo and really willing to vote for someone who was promising to blow a lot of it up. >> to that point, dr., trust is one part of it but the system is another, right? very few if any people get through life 100% healthy. they don't need a doctor to intervene and once you do see the system up close, a lot of them quickly see how expensive it is or how inefficient and ineffective it can be. the high level of cost and low level of efficacy in some cases, but what would a complete shakeup mean in practice? this is comp located stuff. >> it is, i'm so glad you said that, chris. i think i see jack's point

played out in many of the patients i see. i think some patient's experiences here in the united states have been their out-of- pocket costs have doubled after inflation since the 1970s you still have a huge amount of people who don't have timely access to preventative services. a shakeup requires something that's thoughtful for a complicated system and our nation that has an aging population and truly, i think rfk jr.'s sentiment is we are unhealthy. 70% of us are over eight or obese. we are still later than we should be in cancer screenings. i think it suggested a knee- jerk reaction has taken over that may leave 20 million people uninsured or taking away people's confidence in vaccines which may lead to more outbreaks, don't seem to be the kind of solutions that would make america healthy in the longer-term. >> governor, you ran state government so you know the

level of red tape. talk about the challenges legislatively to try to basic coverage. including how many doctors you have and where, the number of doctors who are in specialties versus the number who do internal medicine or general practice. with talk about the challenges you saw firsthand. >> look, i think first of all, we are listening to both these folks talk about this issue. i'm involved actually with public health and some reform of public health. one thing i think we need to do is we need to separate science from policy. in other words, we need to have the science so people can trust the science is. if somebody says i don't buy that. let them have their say. but at the end, it's a large collection of people who say we think this is what science says and what the policymakers make a decision. don't try to squish them

together or push them together. then the debate would go before policymakers. in terms of what's happening with health care, you don't know what the heck your copayment is for the whole system is so confusing to people. access to primary care is absolutely critical which is part of the reason why i expanded medicaid. it's why john, former or current senator from colorado and i went to washington to talk about ways to fix the affordable care act, obamacare. you can tweak it to make it more affordable where you don't have companies trying to exit. there's lots of things we can do, but i think initially, people are skeptical. but if we can have the strong science and we know what that science is and let policymakers make decisions based on that, it will restore some confidence in the minds of people who go to see their health care professionals. >> dr., you heard some of the things that rfk jr. had to say. some are more controversial

than others, but i think what has caught the attention of a lot of folks is the idea that we should spend more of our money on preventative health care or that we should be looking at keeping people healthy, rather than trying to deal with them after they get sicker. is that easier said than done? >> it's funny. we have science called public health. what's happened over the last four years is actually an erosion in public health in the united states. i think we get in the way of that very goal which is important which is critical. i think the reason that goal appeals to so many people is because we do need to do better . part of the way we do that is strengthen our public health system which is chronically underfunded and is not ready to potentially respond to a lot, even in my field, emerging infectious diseases coming our way. so beyond that, the other part we can do is actually look

at our health care system to see how it's easier for people to get preventative care access before the end of in the emergency room. emergency rooms have increased over 20% and people are going there because they can't access their doctors and can't get appointments working on how we improve the distribution of clinicians. improving and reducing the times that clinician -- people have to see their doctors is a quality measure. i would love to see the ministration work on these issues with existing agencies. >> governor, what do you think we understanding that some of the ideas that rfk jr. has put forward and the opinions of a lot of people, bringing about a much-needed discussion. given the level of frustration and given frankly that one in 12 adults are dealing with medical debt, according to a recent survey and some of them can't

buy clothes and food and other household items because their debt is so great, what can and should he say when he goes before the senate? to try to move the conversation forward in a smart way. >> i think the idea is if you want to treat people, keep them healthy rather than treat them when they are sick. something the doctor just said is ideal. there are programs in this country sponsored by health plans that have incentives to get people to primary care. so in fact, we can treat them and keep them from being sicker than they would be if they got primary care. i think the other thing that kennedy raises here is the issue of food. the food be healthier? could it be safer? what about the issue of exercise? what about the question of obesity? these are all things that ought to be discussed and i think you're going to find general agreement on that. some of the other things he talks about are things where you're going to have a debate

between science and for the people who study these issues, the issue of vaccines. there is going to be a lot of discussion. i think it's healthy to have discussions, i think it's important that science itself, and that doesn't mean science is the be all, and all. that's what you have to have some disagreement within science. but if you operate on the basis of science, and people are more confident that no one is cooking the books that can fundamentally believe in what they are telling me i need to do . primary care is absolutely critical to being able to integrate primary care with behavioral health would be another big advancement. i serve on a board now where they are trying to do that. the bipartisan policy coalition integrates behavioral health with public health -- or with primary care. it would be a huge plus for our country to keep peoples cost down your people have good mental health and good physical health. there's so much to do and it's exciting, chris. it's exciting in the age of ai, what we can find out about disease. let's

shake it up a little bit, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. i think that's what the doctor is saying. i agree with her. >> on that note, it seems extremely commonsensical to me. i will say thank you all for a great conversation. governor, dr., we really appreciate all of you. that's going to do it for us this hour. our coverage continues next.

sean casten. i'm katy tur. pete hegseth is on the hill, trying to convince republican senators he is fit to lead the department of defense and its roughly 3 million military and civi