girl push-ups. >> according to the mayo clinic if you can do 15 push-ups at the age of 45, you're in good shape. >> i can do more than 15. what you will not find me doing is hot yoga or anything of that sort. but i will do some push-ups. >> i did just run the marathon. you know how you know if someone ran the marathon? they tell you. >> i'm a marathoner as well. >> can you do a thousand? >> i can't find a peloton under my laundry. >> pelotons are really hanger ins new york city. thanks for joining me tonight. for you at home,i wish you a good night. don't forget to see jacob on saturday night separate and i

will see you at the end of tomorrow. there is a lot of new to night. and to understand one of the biggest stories unfolding right now, we will have to begin by going all the way back to the year 1988. george h. w. bush had just been elected the 41st president. and when the time came a few months later for bush to nominate someone to lead the department of defense, he choice this guy. former texas republican senator john tower. tower had served in the senate for more than 20 years. he was a well known figure on capitol hill and he had some powerful allies including the republican leader in the senate bob dole who testified in favor

of him at his confirmation hearing. >> his committee has a very thorough examination in store. that's what he wants. the only way he would have it, when all is said and done, there is no doubt in my mind the next secretary of defense will be john tower from texas. >> there is no doubt in my mind when all is said and done the next secretary of defense will be john power. senator dole had good reason to believe that. after all, at that point, no cabinet nominee had been rejected by the senate since dwight eisenhower in 1959. but then, something unexpected happened. among the people called to testify at tower's hearing was a conservative activist named paul wirac. he was an influential conservative who would end up reshaping the republican party. you might think of him as the steve bannon of his day if steve were a lot more

productive with his hours. he established the heritage foundation which decades later published the project 225 agenda so it was a shock when paul got up to testify at john tower's confirmation hearing and said this. >> my concern stems first from questions regarding the nominee's moral character. where there is smoke there is fire. must give one pause in this case. the smoke surrounding his personal life seems rather intense. i have made enough personal observations of this man here in washington to have serious reservations about his moral character. >> reservations about john tower's moral tactor. what he was referring to was the open secret that john tower had a drinking problem and was known to his colleagues as a womanizer. he would later tell the press a republican senator had called him before the hearing and pleaded with him not to testify

against tower. now tower did his best to push back on the allegations telling the new york times have i ever drunk to excess? yes. am i alcohol dependent? no. have i always been a good boy? of course not. but i have never done anything disqualifying and that's the point. but the damage was done. people started calling their senators urging them to vote against the tower nomination. specific allegations about towers' drunken behavior start today come out. the fbi investigated the allegations because that is the sort of thing they are supposed to do with national security nominees. when the time came to vote on john tower, the senate rejected his nomination. the final vote was 53-47. and president bush moved onto his second choice, richard chaney, as in dick cheney. he was confirmed by a vote of

92-0. that history of john tower's nomination is especially relevant tonight in light of new reporting about the man donald trump has chosen to be his pick for secretary of defense. pete hegseth. before this week, we knew that hegseth had been accused of drunkenly sexually assaulting a woman in 2017. allegations he denied but as paul wirac said in 1989, where there's smoke, there's fire. the new yorker published bomb shell reporting against hegseth stating during his time as the head of a conservative veteran's group, he was repeatedly intoxicated while acting in his official capacity. so much so he needed to be carried out of the organization's events. it includes allegations he once took his staff to a strip club where he was so drunk he tried to get on the stage and dance with the strippers. his own staff reportedly had to

intervene to keep hegseth from getting thrown out. of a strip club. it includes allegations he treated the organization funds like they were a personal expense account for partying, drinking, and hooking up with women on the road. there were allegations on a number work trip hegseth at a bar drunkenly chanted kill all muslims, kill all muslims. in response to the new yorker story, hegseth's lawyer said we are not going to comment on outlandish claims launders through the new yorker. and then went onto attack the credibility of award winning investigative journalist jane mayer. and now, tonight, literally just a few hours ago, nbc news released new reporting alleging the concerns about hegseth's drinking continued through his career as a host on the fox news channel. nbc spoke with ten current and former fox news employees who described hegseth's drinking. two people said on more than a

dozen occasions during hegseth's time as a cohost of fox and friends weekend, they smelled alcohol on him before he went on air. one of the sources said they smelled alcohol on him as recently as last month. one former fox employee told nbc everyone would be talking about it behind the scenes before he went on air. he should not be secretary of defense, another former fox employee said. his drinking should be disqualifying. now in a normal world, the allegations against pete hegseth would doom his nomination the way similar allegations doomed john tower's nomination 35 years ago but the trump era has made it an open question whether or not republican senators will exhibit any principles here. here was wyoming senator cynthia loomis on hegseth's nomination yesterday after the new yorker reporting has been published. >> they are throwing disparaging remarks at someone who has earned a great deal of

credibility. our soldiers sometimes wild childs? yeah. that can happen. but it is very clear that this guy is the guy who at a time when americans were losing confidence in their own military, in our ability to project strength throughout the world, that pete hegseth is the answer to that concern. >> today hegseth was on capitol hill trying to shore up support with senators and refused to respond to any questions about these allegations. >> can you respond to any of the allegations of misconduct? >> are senators concerned at all about your drinking? >> now tonight, nbc news reports as many as six republican senators and possibly more are not currently

comfortable supporting hegseth's nomination. if democrats all vote to oppose him, the six republican votes would be more than enough to end his nomination. but it is not just hegseth's support in the senate that is uncertain. he may have to work to stay in the good graces of donald trump. now, trump is not known for backing down in the face of controversy but trump has been very public about his distaste for people dealing with addiction. trump himself does not drink. a decision he credits to watching his brother succumb to alcoholism at a young age. and trump's position on addiction is not exactly one of empathy. >> i have always not a brother but a lot of friends to addiction, drugs, alcohol, and there are other addictions frankly. it would be nice if people would do certain things and live certain ways but you are not able to break it. but you know the way you solve the problem? don't have them. when i look at a friend that can't stop smoking i don't understand why it is hard to

stop. just don't drink. just don't have it. if you don't have drugs, if you don't experience early on, you are not going to have a need for it. if you don't drink alcohol you will not have an addiction. >> that is how donald trump thinks about alcohol and addiction. now, allegations about hegseth's sexual assault are unlikely to move donald trump, a man who himself was credibly accused of assault or harassment by more than 20 women. but the allegations about alcohol abuse being hauled out of strip clubs and dragged back to hotel rooms and being wasted in public, what does that do to trump's enthusiasm for pete hegseth? trump has already lost one of his top picks when matt gaetz withdrew from attorney general. and trump's pick to lead the

drug enforcement agency withdrew. if pete hegseth's nomination goes the same way as those two, what does that mean for trump's other controversial nominees? people like kash patel who has threatened to use the department to go after trump's enemies? are there any of trump's controversial nominations that will make it to a senate vote? and if they do, do they stand a better chance than john tower? joining me is garrett graft and susan glasser. i'm eager to get your thoughts on what is a fairly kinetic situation here. susan, you have studied and reported on trump up close. i wonder how you think trump's own attitudes and ideas about addiction and alcoholism might be factoring in to the

weakening support here for his defense secretary pick? >> first of all, we should say trump has obviously chosen max mallly confrontational nominees for some of these key positions in the government. fbi director kash patel. the national intelligence. those are very radical choices. what is interesting is that the conversation here is not about the radical and extreme views they espouse. it is not about the agenda but whether certain personal behaviors are outskirt liers so that might be the qualifier. if this were anything other than trump's washington i would

say the signs are he will never make it to a vote. but trump has chosen the path of confrontation. he doesn't like to back down from a fight. six senators, the math here is they can only lose four senators if all the democrats hold together. so the math doesn't look good when your own mother is cited as one of the bullet points in the case against you. she is going to try to rebut that. but that email is pretty damning. my colleague's reporting, it is not just about individual allegations of drinking. the man was not able to run very small veteran's organizations as a management position. the pentagon is the biggest one we have. >> yeah, i mean, i have to ask, in terms of the character profile that is emerging here.

i agree with susan like so many of trump's picks here are radicals. people that don't care about what the norms are. this is different. this is kind of a different twist. when you hear about someone being hauled off from the stage of a strip club. too drunk or sick to take care of himself. trump might see that as a sign of weakness. that is the opposite of what he has wanted from his other picks. strong enough to withstand the corruption. this is a different character flaw in the eyes of donald trump and i wonder how much that damages him but it goes to the point that maybe they should have done a better background check on this guy. this is why you vet your nominees. it seems like all of this is catching the man who chose him

and the transition team that chose him by surprise. >> i think we have seen right from the election day that donald trump is not choosing a cabinet in leadership for his administration in the way that presidential candidates and presidents-elect normally do. he has been casting a reality tv show. he likes people like pete hegseth because he thinks literally pete looks good on tv. you know. he is one of a large number of fox news hosts who have been nominated to senior positions in the second trump administration and that has all happened very haphazardly. the plan for matt gaetz happened on a single plane ride to washington. he was not on the list at the start of the plane ride and at

the end he was the nominee. that is not the way that presidential administrations normally choose their most senior cabinet positions. >> if the hegseth nomination does not proceed forward, if he withdraws his name, we also have his dea pick withdrawing his name. it's telling a story. weeks of the trump transition effort tell a story of failure. how are you looking at this in the context of the larger more controversial plans trump has announced for his plans for the country but for which the details are scant? >> the contours of what he has already pledged to do are actually sweeping radical. they can go forward even if a number of nominees including this one blow up on the tar pack. and that is the risk is that we

become so focused on the overwhelming evidence of the unsuitability of one, two, three of these nominees. he seems to be taking this swarm approach. there are so many scandals. it is hard to know which one to focus on. that is by the way, part of donald trump's play book from the beginning and it might be effective so we are not even talking about nominating robert f. kennedy jr. , a vaccine denier to be in charge of our public health apparatus or kash patel who has put out a list of 60 names of people in the deep state. he went on steve bannon's podcast. said he wants to investigate all journalists who dared to oppose them in the 2020 election. things like that. we are talk about one guy who allegedly abused alcohol and

did all the other things he did and the swarm approach is something to pay attention to. that some of trump's controversial nominees may get through because historically speaking the senate has a very hard time standing up to him. there is no evidence to suggest they have the appetite to really you know one after the other vote down donald trump's nominees. so that is an important factor to consider. there are so many controversies that help trump. >> yeah. and you have written, you have an op ed to this end about kash patel and how dangerous he is. we will take some time to talk about him. you call him more concretely dangerous than many of trump's other questionable choices. by time you wrote this, pete hegseth had already been his defense secretary pick. can you talk about the way in which you see him independent of what he might do to trump's

allies? what he could do to the department itself. >> donald trump has chosen kash patel for an explicit purpose. he wants to weaponnize the fbi against his political enemies. and, the truth of the matter is that as a nation we know exactly what that looks like. we know what a weaponnized fbi looks like. it looks like what the fbi was in the late 1960s and 1970s in the final years of j. edgar hoover's reign as fbi director. it looks like a bureau that abuses the civil rights of ordinary americans, helps political friends. now, congress, the american people, and the presidents of

the 1970s recalled from what that fbi looked like. recoiled. we spent a series of guardrails to ensure that the fbi is never able to be weaponnized like that again. and now we have a nominee coming in who was explicitly participating in trump political rallies. the idea of any of the people atop the fbi appearing at a presidential campaign rally is an anathema to the bureau. someone who is not only independent of the president, but specially loyal to the president is a deeply worrisome thing to consider. >> yeah, especially when you look at the sort of history of the fbi directors and the

presidents they served. sometimes with great friction, that is kind of the point. thank you both for your time tonight. coming up, president biden pardoned his son hunter to protect him from future prosecution. but what about trump critics like liz cheney and mark milley? should president biden protect them from the trump justice department? paul joins me to discuss that coming up next. discuss that coming up next.

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you say they weaponnized the justice department. they weaponnize the fbi. would you do the same? >> he has unleashed something. we have all known about this 100 years. we watched other countries do it. but if they want to follow through on this, it could certainly happen in reverse. >> last year, donald trump

suggested he absolutely would use the fbi and justice department to attack his political enemies if he was reelected. 48 days from now, he will have the ability to do just that. this weekend, president biden announced he had pardoned his son hunter and today, there are calls on the president to extend his pardon powers to protect trump's perceived enemies. paul argues that president biden must pardon trump's critics now. president biden has a moral obligation to do what he can for patriotic americans who have risked it all. joining me now is paul. it is great to have you tonight sir, i'm eager to hear about your own personal evolution on this. you argued we defend norms by

defending norms, not preaching them. a lot has happened between now and then and i wonder how you are thinking about the president's pardon power today. >> back in 2017, i thought trump was an aberration. an unusual black swan if you will. my thought was you had to defend the norms of the rule of law, and the only way to do that was to maintain them even in the face of his aberrational behavior. today, i think we know that president trump is not an aberration. he is a phenomenon, a movement. and we have to recalibrate how we respond to that. it is essential that we play to the edge of the field. right? to go as far as the law permits

in combating the authoritarian excesses of trump. and the way i wrote about in the atlantic is the pardon power. a pardon for hunter biden, a pardon for trump's critics would be completely normative breaking. and it would be out of character. out of historical tradition. but at this point, i was listening to your earlier broadcasts you were talking about, kash patel. he has a list of 60 people he wants to prosecute. that is a real list. will he do all of them? i don't know. will there be resistance at the fbi? probably. one of the realities of being investigated is that investigation has a cost. even if you are not prosecuted in the end. you have to hire a lawyer. the resources. it strikes me as perfectly

reasonable to ask what could president biden do within the bounds of law even if it would not be traditional to save his allies from that. the answer so to pardon them. >> it seems to you and to other folks as well, the argument about institutional preservation in this moment is best relegated to academics and it is time to play political hardball. i will read an excerpt. it has become painfully self- evident the democratic self- restraint is a form of unilateral disarmament. it is well past time for responsible democrats to use every tool in their tool kit. does any part of that i guess worry you? they said democrats should have

gotten rid of the filibuster. now it seems like the filibuster is the only thing that will stop trump from completeing the most pernicious parts of his agenda. so how do you think about the cost benefit analysis here? >> of course it worries me. it has to worry any sensible thinking person to argue for breaching norms that have guided our country for 250 years. on the other hand, i don't think the democratic self- restraint is what will stop trump from acting. if in the end trump and the republican majority think the filibuster is a barrier to whatever it is they want, they will get rid of it anyway. it strikes me as essential to begin trying to take steps that can't be reversed in defense of

vetoing voting rights. we would have to contend with the supreme court. but for two years the democrats had a majority. and both houses. and instead of doing transgressive things like changing the rules to prevent trump's cheating, they did normal democratic things. they passed the inflation reduction act and the bipartisan infrastructure act. all good things from their perspective. but they thought that would be how to reclaim america. turned out they were wrong. >> it is a deeply thought provoking position you have taken. it is great to have you on the show paul. thanks again for your time

tonight. >> thanks for having me. coming up, the leader of south korea, a key ally, declares marshal law, then reverses it. what that signals for america. i will discuss with former deputy national security adviser ben rhodes right after this break. after this break.

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at 11:00 p.m. local time last night, south korean president yoon suk-yeol shocked his country and the world by declaring marshal law in a surprise televised address accusing the government's opposition party of plotting against the state. now, marshal law in south korea means no protests, no meeting of parliament or political activities of any kind and a takeover of all news media. despite that and the fact this all happened in the middle of the night, thousands of protesters gathered in front of south korea's parliament building and demanded an end of marshal law and the arrest or impeachment of president yoon suk-yeol. south korean news outlets continued to follow the story. armed troops were seen climbing through broken windows. barricading entrances. parliament employees sprayed fire extinguishers to block the

soldiers from entering the parliament's main hall. outside a reporter from the washington post filmed. one demonstrator shouted over my dead body while literally stopping the car with their body. inside south korea's argument met in an emergency session in the middle of the night. one member live streamed as they scale add fence just to get into the building for the emergency parliament session. the chief spokesman of the opposition party said the military entered parliament trying to arrest the body's three senior most members. despite all of that, 190 members of south korea's 300 member parliament managed to meet and voted unanimously to rescind the president's marshal law decree. that vote took place just past 1:00 a.m. local time meaning all of that happened in just over three

hours. a president declared marshal law, the military took over the legislature. the people protested and the parliament over turned the president's decree. and now the military has packed up and gone home. the leader of the president's own political party is demanding he explain himself. one of korea's largest union, the korean federation of trade unions called for its more than 1 million members to strike until president yoon steps down. if this was an attempted coup, it appears to have failed. but what does this all mean for the people ovocyte south korea moving forward? and what does it mean to the united states to has relied on south korea for one of our

biggest allies for decades and what is there for us to learn about the concept of marshal law as president-elect donald trump claims he will use the insurrection act to declare a national emergency and use the u.s. military here at home. former deputy national security adviser ben rhodes joins me to discuss that next. me to discuss that next. could look like with vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? vyvgart hytrulo can improve daily abilities and reduce muscle weakness with a treatment plan that's personalized to you. do not use vyvgart hytrulo if you have a serious allergy to any of its ingredients. it can cause serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing and decrease in blood pressure leading to fainting, and allergic reactions such as rashes, swelling under the skin, shortness of breath, and hives. the most common side effects are respiratory and urinary tract infections, headache, and injection site reactions.

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[ chanting ] >> those were protesters outside of south korea's parliament chanting dismiss the marshal law. the president of south korea directed the military to physically seize the legislature which is controlled by the opposing party. despite the threat of arrest, the people of south korea and the media and the legislature managed to resist and marshal law was ultimately ended. so what should we take from these last 12 hours in south korea and what can the united states learn with a president- elect who openly considers imposing marshal law himself? joining me now is ben rhodes. ben, it's great to see you. i am eager to know how you are processing what happened in south korea. a hang time ally of the united

states. a country that is different from us but in some ways not that different from us. >> it is an astonishing turn in a country that is a relatively young democracy since the 1980s but has a deep commitment to democratic values. they hosted a summit on democracy during the biden administration a couple of years ago. the main take away is that we are living through an age of contagion. an age of authoritarian contagion. they are pushing in all different ways. in countries like turkey, hungary, israel. so this is not geographically distinct. we are living through a period

where autocracy is on the rise. and the party of the president, every single member voted against his marshal law so these are not republican party fonctionnaires in south korea. we learned what it looks like when you have a unified stance against this kind of autocracy. >> for people not paying close attention to south korean politics, the sort of most memorable image they may have of president yoon is fact he is the guy that sang american pie to president biden in the white house. i this i we have some footage of that. can we play a little snippet to remind people? >> ♪ long, long time ago. i can still remember how ♪♪ >> sorry, i'm talking over this fantastic rendition. but people who supported trump and are ambivalent about him. they don't take him seriously

because he has clownish behavior. there are moments of levity. being an autocrat, being a dictator, doesn't mean you can't also be clownish sometimes, too. you can't have moments of levity. and i use that example because that seemingly good natured individual singing american pie to president biden less than 24 hours ago tried to stage a coup. and i feel like there is a profile and character of these autocrats that beg to be fleshed out a little bit more. >> yeah. that's right. there is kind of a cult of personality that grows up. this guy was relatively unpopular. but the leader of el salvador who marched more successfully. he calls himself the world's coolest dictator and has the ethos of a crypto bro online.

the thing about trump is he can seem in some ways less threatens because he is up there at rallies doing kind of borderline standup routines. the reality show aura that surrounds him. he says that he wants to use the united states military in the streets either to enforce mass deportation or against his political opponents. these are things he said he wants to do. and americans don't realize that is not normal to have the u.s. military used in that function and i don't know what it will feel like if that happens. there was a shock about the images we just saw. these are people with a living

memory of this. as recently as the 1980s . i don't know how americans will feel if donald trump makes good on his own promises to deploy the military for domestic political purpose. >> do they feel their democracy is strengthened or weakened? >> in the short term there is a feeling of resilience and strength. but in the long run, they have seen someone return to a tactic not used in decades in south korea. they have seen the military involved in confrontations. so there's a lot of uncertainty. what comes next? there is obviously a strong call for his resignation. and, is the military going to take a step back from politics? was the military pushed into

this or somehow a part of this effort? so these are all questions that will be on the table in south korea but how are we going to react? donald trump may not announce marshal law. but he could do thing that's go in that direction. the use of the justice department. how will it feel if the fbi director is starting to prosecute political opponents of trump? thus far, the record of the last eight years is not uniformly positive. >> big questions as we deal with the spread of authoritarian contagion. ben rhodes, appreciate your time tonight. coming up, what democrats need to do to turn their

political fortunes around. ben wikler joins me to discuss coming up next. to discuss coming up next. our battle was legendary. maybe now my friends will believe me. we did this for one delivery, see what we can do for your business. fedex. the promise of america is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. reproductive rights, voting rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. we must act now to restore and protect these freedoms for us and for the future, and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union. will you join us? call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today.

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democrats continue to talk about why kamala harris lost. but according to nate kohen, turnout was not the issue. lower turnout for democrats in nevada's clark county would only explain one-third of the decline in support. the remaining two-thirds was because voters flipped trump's way. joining me now is the chairman of the democratic party of wisconsin running for the chair of the democratic national committee. i wonder who you make of that statistic that the voters flipped trump's way. >> thanks so much for having me on. when you look at this election,

look around the world. voters fed up by inflation, hit hard by high prices swung against incumbent parties, left, right, and center. we saw that in in the united states. what that tells us is pocketbook issues make a big difference for voters struggleing to get by. it is also that the fight for reproductive freedom motivated voters in a state like wisconsin to close the gap, the swing was just a quarter of what it was nationwide and helped tammy baldwin win her senate race. but the key thing to remember is you want to convince people to vote and vote for you. it means showing who you are

for. and all levels of government, they are trying to rig the system for the megabillionaires who are surrounding donald trump at mar-a-lago against people across race and gender and ethnicity. across this country. we will have to fight back for the next four year ifs we want to turn this around. >> you mentioned wisconsin which you know well, the reality is that harris didn't win that race. but baldwin did. what accounted for the discrepancy? >> we have been digging into this. what is interesting about wisconsin this year, we had a massive organizing campaign. vice president harris visited wisconsin over and over. campaigned hard, harris added votes relative to what joe biden got. there was an increased democratic turnout. there was also a huge surge for donald trump. some of those republican voters only voted for trump. about 50,000 people, a little more than that, didn't vote in the u.s. senate race. and so that drop off meant that

tammy baldwin was able to defeat the republican. she won by a little less than 1%. and kamala harris lost by a little less than 1%. that means they were incredibly close. that is why you have to work year round to build up the support, find the voters you can turnout. if we do that across the country, we can win the house majority in 2026. there is a ton of damage trump will try to inflict but there is a ton of opportunity and it starts now. >> the strategizing and planning sounds like something who might the next chair of the democratic national committee. ben, thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks so much. that is our show for this evening. now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening. >> good evening alex. in relation to a news item of the day, you have to help me with something. and this is the part i'm

embarrassed to admit because it's the only thing i have in common with donald trump. >> oh boy. >> i have never been drunk. so. >> well, my friend, sit down and i'll tell you all about it. >> so here is my question. do you smell, does a fox weekend morning host smell of alcohol from a hangover or does he have to have been drinking that morning to smell like alcohol? >> the answer could be c. you could be drinking but have had a real bender to still smell like alcohol the next morning. like alcohol the next morning. is purely anecdotal, you probably have to have consumed a fairly vast quantity of alcohol the night before. just saying. >>