tv Ana Cabrera Reports MSNBC December 5, 2024 7:00am-8:00am PST
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reports," killer on the run. the intensifying manhunt more the gunman who shot a health care ceo on the busy streets of manhattan. the chilling words found on shell casings. also, the final hearing on the attempted assassination of donald trump. the acting secret service director in the hot seat. plus, are pete hegseth's chances of becoming defense secretary hanging by a thread? how he's responding to multiple allegations as he tries to win skeptics. ♪♪ good thursday morning. it's 10:00 eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. we begin with the manhunt in manlt. the gunman who shot the ceo of united health care remains at large. the nypd says brian thompson was
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targeted and they have a growing stockpile of evidence. they know what the shooter was wearing, a black hoodie, a ski mask, a gray backpack. they know the route he took away from the scene, cutting through an alley before getting on a bike to flee into central park. they know the shell casings at the scene had writing on them saying, deny, defend and depose. what they don't know, where he is now or why he did it. >> the motive for this murder currently is unknown. based on the evidence we have so far, it does appear the victim was specifically targeted. at this point we don't know why. >> let's bring in nbc's steven romo at the scene of the shooting in midtown. also with us nbc news law enforcement correspondent tom winter, retired nypd detective
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mark claxton and julian snyder. tom, we're past the first 24 hours. where does this investigation stand? >> i know this show well. the first 48 hours or 24 hours of a police investigation. some of the things we're reporting about what was written on the shell casings, that information was probably found over 24 hours ago. what we know in the press and what we know in reporting is clearly far behind where investigators are and that's how they want it. they want to make sure they're on top of the information and pursuing leads and not necessarily us. there are a couple developments here today and important clues and evidence that the nypd has picked up. these images we're looking at now, these come from a starbucks surveillance camera from prior to the shooting. yesterday they find this. they do all sorts of video work. just as important as it was to follow where he went after the
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shooting, it's just as important to know where he came from. they get the still images, that surveillance video. he buys a couple things like a water bottle and a couple energy bars. at some point he discards those things. they find where he discards them and they pick that evidence up. what they have found, if they found anything on those items of evidence, police aren't explicitly saying, but all those things bring clues to bear. >> dna. >> the phone they found yesterday, that could be very helpful. so we know because of the activity they're doing this morning, this has advanced beyond where our knowledge of it is. whether or not this individual is still in the area, where this individual came from, what this individual's name is, i don't have that information at this point. certainly police are moving closer to it. they're being quiet in their discussions with us at the moment, but they're definitely not being quiet behind the
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scenes. >> steven, we're learning more about the victim, hearing from the family of brian thompson. what are they saying? >> reporter: nbc news spoke with paulette thompson not long after news broke of this killing. she said he had been facing threats. she didn't have specifics, but she said there have been threats. basically, i don't know, a lack of coverage. i don't know the details. it was a fairly brief conversation. she said she had to go console her children right after that. brian was just 50 years old, leaves behind paulette and two kids. paulette spoke with care 11, our affiliate in inneapolis saying brian lived his life to the fullest and how deeply he'll be missed. >> steven, thank you. keep us posted on developments. mark, 24 hours out. we have the shooting on camera. police have photos of the
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suspect before and after the shooting. why do you think it's taking so long to catch him? >> i don't think it's taken that long to catch him as a matter of fact. i think tom is absolutely correct. oftentimes there's a focus because of the media generation that we live in, there's a focus on the length of time that an investigation is taking as opposed to the quality of the investigation itself. as it's been indicated, there are different -- at this point there have been hundreds of pieces of different types of evidence and information and data that needs to be analyzed and examined and put into context in regards to what occurred out there with this killing. so i think it's an appropriate amount of time. we can anticipate it will taken more -- a longer period of time because of the nature of this killing and the complexity that's involved, that appears to be involved with this particular victim. so there's a lot of information
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that's going to be coming in. listen, just examining the information that comes from the domain awareness system and the surveillance cameras and license plate readers and shot spotters, if those are coming into play, that's going to take a significant amount of time. people have to expect and anticipate this is a long run effort for a quality investigation. >> let's talk through some of the evidence we know they have. we just reported about the writings that were left behind on the shell casings. the words defend, deny, depose on those shell casings. gillian, does that narrow the window on who a suspect could be? >> it obviously took a lot of time to put the effort and write those words on those shells. it shows you there was a
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rationale. it also could point us in the direction is we know those words are pretty common with the insurance industry. it could be someone wanting to point us in that direction or related to this killing. >> "the new york times" obtained this surveillance video showing someone wearing similar clothing to the gunman, around ten minutes before the shooting. we have this video. it was about 175 feet away from the scene. the nypd was not immediately able to confirm that it is the suspect in that video. if it is him and given that description we walked through, we'll give that video to everybody to see when we get that ready, but if it's the suspect and we have that sort of timeline, what does that suggest to you? >> we know that the suspect was casing the individual well before and in advance of the killing. something i want to point out
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and something that was addressed in the nypd press conference, that backpack was pretty distinctive. his clothes are relatively generic, but the backpack has a unique shape. that's something we could definitely use when we're tracking. something that's important is, as the nypd is going through hours and hours of surveillance footage from not only their internal system but cctv, cameras at bodegas and other places, we want to track that suspect without losing a gap in time to establish a clear timeline. >> you know the ins and outs of this city because of your work. mark, we know the shooter took a bike at central park. how easy is it to disappear in the park? >> it's not easy to completely disappear and go off grid, if you will. i think there's some impression
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that central park has limited surveillance items in there. the fact of the matter is, anywhere in the city, there are surveillance items all around that may not be obvious to many people between the cameras on the light poles and as indicated their cooperative agreements with commercial establishments all around the city. there is a network of cameras that makes it very difficult for individuals to disappear in new york city. it should be noted that new york city's only second to chicago in their number of surveillance cameras they have used by their public safety apparatus. >> tom, it's just chilling to see these images. we see the one where he's holding the gun. at one point we learned from the press conference yesterday that the gun appeared to jam. here's what investigators are saying about that moment. watch.
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>> from watching the video it seems that he's proficient in the use of firearms. he was able to clear the malfunction pretty quickly. >> what more are we learning about the weapon used and the expertise the shooter may have had? >> they're definitely familiar with the use of firearms. that's something the chief of detectives discussed yesterday. why do we know that from watching the video? when that malfunction occurs, he's able to effectively get the ammo out of the weapon or what was creating that jam and continue to try to be able to fire that weapon. that's somebody that has familiarity with it. it's a gun just based on the way he's reracking it after each round, as somebody who's had proficiency with a firearm, had training or practice with it. there appears to be a suppresser. you want to be cautious about that. that's something that can help muzzle the amount of noise the gun would make when fired. there are different types of guns, particularly when we see the type of action it's called,
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that we see in that gun, that may have had an extended barrel or suppresser. just to put it back into english, this is somebody that has some proficiency with a gun and with a weapon to be able to clear it and calmly be able to do so. this is someone in the act of killing a person. the fact that they were comfortable enough to take a moment and pause and get that situation handled with the gun clearly shows a type of chilling intent and proficiency which is why the nypd said it was targeted. >> mark, we learned from brian thompson's wife he had been receiving threats. how will law enforcement try to trace those threats now? based on everything else we discussed, does this sound like a crime of passion to you? >> i think what they'll initially do is see if these threats are documented in any way or there's additional individuals aware of these
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threats. there's a possibility that the threats were documented and perhaps there was a risk assessment -- threat assessment done which would provide additional, perhaps, information that may be helpful in an investigation itself. it all depends on whether or not these threats are known to other people and in what form these threats took and whether they were personal threats, threats related to his profession. there are a lot of questions. i'm sure at this point that the nypd investigators have the answers to these questions that i'm asking and they're part of the investigative pattern. >> gillian, thompson was walking alone. if there were known threats, why wouldn't he have had personal security? >> the time of day is something i wanted to point to. at 6:45 in the morning people feel relatively safe walking to a hotel. i was surprised after i found
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out he had been receiving threats that he didn't have personal security or corporate security. i was asked why the nypd hadn't been notified previously he had threats against him, why nypd personnel weren't there. that's not something the department would usually do. it would be up to the corporation to supply any type of security, if it was requested. >> tom winter, gillian snyder and mark claxton, thank you very much. we're following breaking news on capitol hill. the acting secret service director in the hot seat at a hearing on the attempted assassination of donald trump. what he's saying so far. plus, pete hegseth stays in the fight, but does he have support on the hill to become trump's defense secretary? and later, millions under winter weather alerts. snow, clipper storms, snow emergencies all across the country. we have the details when we come back in 90 seconds. when we come back in 90 seconds eggs make all our family moments better.
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is the committees final witness and is facing questions about the security lapses that day. we're following the hearing on capitol hill and also with us is a former secret service agent. what's the headline this morning? >> reporter: the house task force is preparing to close the chapter into the investigation on the two assassination attempts on president-elect trump's life. this hearing they expect to be their final hearing before the report kicked off a half hour. the chair, mike kelly, who represents butler, pennsylvania, said the focal points are what went wrong, what they're doing about it and what changes need to be made. they heard testimony from the acting secret service director ronald rowe. he said this was an abject failure by the secret service that underscored critical gaps in their operations, including deficiencies on communications, coordination and protective
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advance. listen to what rowe said. >> the face of this process, it does frustrate me. it is essential that we recognize the gravity of our failure. i personally carry the weight of knowing that we almost lost a protectee and our failure cost a father and husband his life. >> reporter: now rowe promised to conduct a thorough review of policies and procedures, some of which he said have already been implemented. he said he recognizes that an attempted assassin must be lucky once, the men and women of the secret service must be perfect every time and they'll be defined by their ability to act and learn from it. >> when will we see the committee's final report? >> reporter: they didn't announce a specific date. we expect it to be out in days not weeks.
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>> sahill kuppur, thank you very much. >> your reaction to what you've heard so far? >> i think they addressed everything. a couple key things that have stood out during the hearing is when acting director rowe said multiple employees have left or been unassigned to work from home so they're not part of the mix anymore. when i hear multiple employees, to me it's saying it's a systemic thing and a problem. this wasn't one person making a bad decision, but the whole system. he also focussed on field offices. what that means is that field offices that help support visits, let's say president-elect trump is going to chicago, the chicago field office will help support that visit. what he's saying is they need to give proper training to these field offices, which, again, sends the message that the field offices out there that are
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supported these advances, don't have the proper training. he also focussed on training in general, which i have to tell you i absolutely agree. training is paramount and it's something barely done because of the mission, because it's so busy and because of this do more with less. he actually talked about that. he actually pointed out this do more with less that has been going for a very long time -- he said it, it's caused the deterioration of the protective operations and it needs to change. it's something to tell you you do more with less, do more with less resources and man power. it was seen as a positive thing. what they're moving away from is saying this obviously doesn't work. >> and rowe said complacency was a reason for a lot of these failures. abby, you still have connections
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inside the secret service. what are you hearing and how are changes being implemented and received? >> there's two different lanes. the one lane is the agents itself and that moral. you come from the secret service and ith prestige and respect. right now your agency is seen in a negative light, especially for something like this that happened. internally they're making a lot of changes. it really comes from leadership. if you have multiple employees making mistakes, being complacent, it always comes from the top. one thing i didn't hear is they should be looking at leadership and looking at individuals who put the system in place and maybe changing that. i think that's a really important thing. i >> i was thinking about the interesting moments about trump's first trip in office, the trips to walter reed, his
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covid, when trump lunged at his security detail when they refused to take him to the capitol on january 6th. what do you expect as he chooses the next secret service director? >> he might pick somebody from the outside. that might not be a bad thing. he might pick somebody that's been gone for a while. the former director had been gone for a while. she was at pepsi and came back. it might not be a bad idea to have somebody not part of the agency and will really look at this from the outside and say, what are you doing? even the public, with what happened with the july 13th attempted assassination, a lot of these things were common sense. how do you not secure the building? even here when he was being interviewed during the hearing, one of the first questions he was asked was, what is the most
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glaring issue here? rowe said it's how did you not secure that building, how did you not see that problem? he touched on that they need to focus on more of the middle perimeters. usually secret service is focussed on the inside because that's where the president's going, the president's moving. that outer part you tend the give it to local law enforcement. then there's communication. the agents did not communicate clearly to law enforcement what was expected of them. you can't expect them to put the plan on their own or make assumptions. >> some of the lapses seem so obvious now. clearly there were blind spots. abby, thank you very much. we'll keep monitoring this hearing. also ahead, not backing down. trump's pick for the department of defense back on the hill to make his case to skeptical senators.
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pete hegseth trying to woo republican senators with lots of meetings and an op-ed in "the wall street journal" and he's responding to the litany of allegations he's facing in an interview with megyn kelly. watch this. >> i never had a drinking problem. no one's ever approached me and said you should look at getting help. never. >> did you rape a woman in a hotel in monterey? >> absolutely not. absolutely not. i've been honest about that encounter starting with law enforcement from the beginning. i was -- i may have been drinking, but i was cognizant enough to remember every single detail. and i'm not here to say that my conduct was good, you know, being in a hotel room with someone that's not the person you're with is not okay. >> hegseth called the various reports alleging various misconduct an arsenal of lies. but is this full-court press
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working? two key senators came out of their meetings with him yesterday and didn't really show their cards. watch. >> it was a very frank discussion. >> senator, will you support mr. hegseth's nomination? >> it was a frank conversation. >> did he ask for your vote? >> thank you. >> we have a lot of other issues, particularly personal issues that complicates it. there was some difficult conversations. it wasn't difficult. >> how is that? >> these are tough questions. >> let's bring in msnbc political contributor. melanie, we heard from senators there. joe joni ernst said they had a frank conversation. here's what this republican senator said about his meeting
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with hegseth. >> the drinking thing is a significant issue. whether you have a problem or don't have a problem or you think you have a problem or think you don't have a problem, he said my commitment is to not touch alcohol while i have this position. i said it's important we've got a clear-eyed secretary of defense if the phone rings at 3:00 in the morning. he said 3:00 in the morning, 3:00 in the afternoon and every hour in between. >> at least a half dozen gop senators we reported weren't comfortable supporting hegseth. did he change any minds with this full-court press? how did his promise of not drinking land with anybody? >> he's not changed any minds. what we're hearing is the nomination is on life support. he's been on a media blitz. he did a "wall street journal" op-ed where he's very forceful he's not dropping out. he did the interview with megyn
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kelly. he had his mom go on fox and make a plea to senators. she would that email about his conduct with women. she said, i regret that email and you should support my son. in terms of what he's saying -- [ audio audio odd -- >> the question is whether this is enough to convince republicans who have reservations about his nomination. what i've been told is now that donald trump is floating alternative names if hegseth can't give over the finish line, they're getting conflicting signals from trump. they don't want to walk the plank, go out on a limb and say
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they'll back this problematic nominee if that's going to have the plug pulled on hill. i think the comments from joni ernst are telling. she was a combat veteran. she was a sexual assault survivor herself. that was not a ringing endorse. by the way, she's a name floated as a backup replacement. >> right. >> i think through the end of the week he'll continue with these meetings and see if he can get momentum, change the trajectory. my sense is talking to sources close to trump, if things don't improve significantly in the next few days, trump might be willing to make a change by next week. >> a clip has resurfaced of hegseth talking about drinking from a 2021 podcast episode. he actually seems to contradict what we heard from him in his interview yesterday with megyn kelly. listen. >> i look around at 10:00 and say what am i going to do today?
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how about i drink and have some beers? one beer leads to many, leads to self-medication, leads to i earned this. don't tell me i can't. >> i just wonder how much of the drip, drip, drip of information coming out, these new revelations, allegations, how much is that hurting him? how much more are republicans willing to put up with in terms of the confirmation process? >> it's a lot. it's weighing heavily. republicans are waiting for the next shoe to drop. it's a source of frustration in trump's orbit. they were not aware of a lot of these allegations. they didn't go through the normal vetting process. these were split decisions and now it's coming back to bite him. there's frustration in trump world and with republicans as well. tell us everything now. it's going to come out in these confirmation hearings.
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we want to know hearing. if you catch us by surprise, it's going to be a huge problem. >> i want to ask about elon musk and vivek ramaswamy meeting on the hill to discuss their ambitious plans for the new department of the government of efficiency. what are the expectations with today's meetings involving them? >> today is going to be like a cheerleading session. it's going to be a rally for elon musk and vivek ramaswamy. i will say this effort on capitol hill is getting a lot of interest from particularly republicans. everyone wants a piece of the pie. they want -- this is the hottest ticket in town. everyone wants proximity to trump. this is the best way to do this. while the idea of cutting government spending could find bipartisan support and republicans are excited about this, it was not something that was a trump priority in the first presidency. it will take this operation
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from congress to enact the spending cuts. that's a hard proposition on capitol hill, especially when you're talking about cutting programs that impact a constituent or district. they'll start with low-hanging fruit. they're talking about office leasing and getting federal workers back to work. those small things they'll start with. the big task of cutting $2 trillion, that's a lot tougher. >> melanie, thanks for bringing us up to speed. turning to breaking news out of tennessee, the department of justice is announcing findings from their 17-month investigation into the memphis police department. finding that the department engaged in a pattern of excessive force and discriminates against black members of the community. what are we learning? >> reporter: you remember this investigation was opened six months after tyreek nickles was
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beaten by officers in memphis. we saw the national outcry and heard residents coming forward. it's a 73-page report. i want to show you one small part of it. you see the assistant attorney general kristen clark she said, officers often use unwarranted serious force in response to low-level crimes. people use force against people who do not do as they say. they rapidly escalate encounters, including traffic stops. ana, something they make very clear, they say those who are at the center of this when officers are using excessive force it's against the city's black residents and those we behavioral disabilities.
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tyre nichols was a black man. other things we heard, the assistant attorney general said this offends the dignity of memphis residents. she said it's a practice that must end. the city of memphis will have a press conference shortly. we'll be here following the developments. we know officers have faced charges in the aftermath. >> marissa parra, thank you. in california, two kindergarteners in critical condition after a gunman opened fire at their school. what investigators are saying. plus, more dangerous weather on the way. where the fast-moving clipper storm is headed.
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expression, but inside i was breaking down. >> a community reeling this morning in california. two kindergarten students are in critical condition after a gunman opened fire at a small religious school yesterday before taking his own life. investigators are looking into whether the gunman's meeting with the school's principal before the shooting was a ruse to get into the campus and whether he targeted the school because of its affiliation with the church. liz kreutz joins us with the latest. >> reporter: this happened at a small religious school out of sacramento. the two boys are 5 and 6 and in critical condition. this morning new questions about why a man with a gun opened fire at this elementary school in rural northern california.
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>> shots fired, 27 cox lane. >> reporter: police say two kindergarten students, 5 and 6-year-old boys were shot and transported to hospitals. one air lifted. >> i can tell you the injuries are very, very rious. >> reporter: police said they found the suspected shooter with a handgun, dead from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot. the shooting happening at a school with about three dozen students. police say the gunman was dropped off by an uber and met with the school's principal. >> we're trying to determine whether or not he was there to enroll or talk about enrolling a student or it was a ruse to get on campus. >> reporter: school administrators heard screams. this sixth grader said she heard the gunshots. >> we were running to the gym. i looked back and saw a shadow
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with a gun. i told people to run faster. >> reporter: the school put on lockdown. students rushed to a nearby church. >> my wife actually got the phone call. it was heart ache. you know, are you going to see your child? >> reporter: now authorities are investigating reports the suspect targeted its school because of its affiliation with the church. the fbi assisting in the investigation. >> when you're talking about little kids who can't defend themselves, it terrifies you. >> reporter: authorities say they know who the suspect is, but they're not identifying him. they don't believe he knew the victims. while they believe the incident was isolated, they notified other schools to be vigilant. >> liz kreutz, thank you. turning to a new york city court where we're awaiting the verdict in the subway chokehold
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death. the defendant's fate is in the hands of the jury. they're deciding if he's guilty of manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide. jurors asked to review police and bystander video. they asked to rehear parts of the testimony from a city medical examiner. we'll stay on top of the story and bring you any updates. next on "ana cabrera reports," 20 degree weather in south carolina. how southerners are dealing with dangerous temperatures. plus, why is one weight loss drug so much more effective than another? what we're learning from a major new study. stay with us. rn 65. but, you do face more risk from flu and covid. last year alone, those viruses hospitalized nearly 1 million people 65 and older. 1 million.
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through the northeast bringing artic-winds. it's the latest of storms that have dumped several feet of snow and created terrible traffic conditions. joining us now from north carolina, in that region hit by hurricanes is nbc's kathy parks. how are people dealing with the weather and what are they expecting? >> reporter: good morning. millions are waking up to this bitter blast of cold air. in asheville temperatures are expected to plunge into the teens. when you look around, this was actually under water two months ago as hurricane helene roared through. now it's dangerously cold conditions. this morning parts of the country buried under feet of snow and bracing for even more
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with the powerful clipper system on the move. dangerous snow squalls could slam the great lakes and northeast with intense whiteouts causing poor visibility on the roads. with the threat of severe winter weather -- >> i'm always prepared. >> reporter: -- residents are stocking up on shovels and salt. >> first aid kit and something to make sure your phones are charged up. >> reporter: hard erie, pennsylvania, national guard has been called in to help residents dig out. months after hurricane helene tore through asheville, north carolina, residents are still trying to recover. cassie hale and her family have been living in a camper since the storm. >> what's your day to day look like? >> we get up and warm up the camper and go to work. the kids go to the library. >> reporter: now with
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temperatures dipping below freezing volunteers are working around the clock to provide heaters. >> i see families, kids and families sleeping in living rooms with holes in the roof. every day the line is probably longer than a mile. >> reporter: last night at the rockefeller center tree lighting, the snowflakes were flying, making the joyful occasion even merrier. back here in north carolina the damage from hurricane helene was severe, homes are still being repaired. some people just got their power back on this week. ending on good news, we're seeing volunteers coming in from across the country to get residents back on their feet. there's a group inside right now that came from illinois. ana? >> perspective. what an eye opener to see what's still happening there. thank you, kathy park.
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people on zepbound lost more weight than those taking wegovy. doctors say the numbers are astounding. let's get more details from msnbc medical contributor dr. vin gupta. take us through the findings. >> it's suggested that zepbound is more effective than wegovy when it comes to wait loss. the stats are incredible. 20% body weight reduction with zepbound versus 13%. we think it's because zepbound is a combination drug. it makes us feel fuller and more effectively metabolizes fats and sugars. it has two mechanisms of actions versus one. it's proof positive maybe there's a difference in efficacy. >> they're both glp-1. >> zepbound also has a glp --
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it's medical mumbo jumbo. wegovy is just an glp-1. zepbound does a lot to manage fat intake and manage how much we're eating and not eating. >> what about side effects? >> same thing. gi intolerance is the main one. in early days there was a 50% dropoff between dose one and dose. those gi side effects were pretty significant. those have been mitigated. the unknown is how long do you need to be on these medications? that's the unknown. can we wean people off? we don't know. is medicare and medicaid going to cover the meds during the trump years? the biden administration said they want to do it, but that's up to the next administration.
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access is a big problem. >> can people be choosey? i know that supply and demand was an issue early on. a lot of folks say i want to take the one that helps me lose the most weight. >> it's a conversation to have with your medical provider. losing 13% of your body fat is a big deal and a remarkable feat. we have to be thinking about goals. i worry about overuse. we've seen reports of that. what's the goal of therapy if your provider decides to start you on this, how long should you be on it? if you're a nonresponder on wegovy, you could be moved to zepbound. if wegovy's not working, perhaps we try zepbound. there's going to be oral ones soon. i'm excited about that. that will lower the cost. that's a good thing. it's not just weight loss.
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it's helping to reverse type ii diabetes. it's heart health, addiction disorders, potentially allowing people to get -- use substances far less. there's a lot of different impacts on human health. hopefully as we get cheaper al tentatives more people can benefit. >> this is fascinating. thank you for bringing us this new information. 'tis the season for scrutinizing our top song choices and admitting we listen to "espresso" too much. spotify released their 2025 spotify wrapped, sending out the top songs of the year. this wrap season's top artist should probably come as no surprise. with 26.6 billion streams worldwide, taylor swift sits at the top of the charts. she also took the spot for most streamed album globally with
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"the tortured poets department" and snagging top song is sabrina carpenter's "espresso." isn't that sweet? guess so. that does it for me today. thank you for joining us. i'll see you tomorrow same time, same place. you can catch our show online around the clock on youtube and other platforms. let me know what your favorite song is. tweet it at me, put it on threads, put it on blue sky. i'm on all the platforms, instagram. look forward to having that back and forth. i'm ana cabrera reporting new york. jose diaz-balart picks up our coverage now. jose diaz-balart picks up our coverage now good morning. 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. right now an you are get manhunt is on for the suspect of the ceo of united healthcare, brian thompson. this is a chilling scene early wednesday morning. the gunman,
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