it is good to be back with you in the second hour of chris jansing reports.

off the grid, investigators looking into whether the gunman who shot the united health care ceo is still on the run, used a fake id and cash to pay for staying in a hostile. the latest this hour. >> plus, hidden in plain sight. a senior law enforcement official sharing disturbing details about the words found at the crime scene. and spilling secrets. former proud boys leader enrique tarrio is testifying at the trial of a retired police officer who is accused of leaking confidential information to the far right extremist group. doge in the house. elon musk and vivek ramaswamy expected to speak on the hill about their plans to shake up the government in 2025. our nbc news reporters are following all the latest developments. we begin with the manhunt for a masked gunman in new york city. that's where nbc's steven romo is reporting, and i understand we have new details about

exactly what investigators are looking at at this hour. what's the latest? >> reporter: yeah, new details, chris, coming in in the past few minutes, really. the new surveillance photos that nypd released earlier today come from a hostile on the upper west side, that is according to a police detectives who visited there. an eyewitness also telling nbc new york that police searched a room there. investigators are trying to figure out as you mentioned just a moment ago, if the suspect used a fake id and paid with cash. that is according to two law enforcement officials who were briefed on this. these new photos give us a look at the suspected shooter's face. the photos we saw yesterday from the starbucks showed his face half covered. now we're getting a full view of his face, even smiling there. also, new from the early morning hours, those three words found on the shell casings, deny, defend, depose.

potentially a huge development in this case that could signal a motive. that along with the cell phone that was recovered, the water bottle and the two protein bars they believe the suspect bought from a nearby starbucks, those are all things the police have right now that they're trying to use to bring more information. the nypd has stopped short of calling the shooter a professional. they have a mark on how calm and collected he was during all this, but we're hearing from experts that these things like leaving those words on shell casings aren't typically something that is done by a professional. now, we are expecting an update to come from the nypd in a little less than 90 minutes now and we're hoping to learn much more on the search for this killer. >> steven romo, thank you. now to the questions over why united health care ceo brian thompson had no security detail despite recent threats made against him. priscilla thompson is reporting from new york city as well. what more do we know about this?

>> reporter: yeah, well, we see that video of thompson walking on the sidewalk just behind me. he's walking alone. he does not appear to have security with him. we have also been combing shareholder records which show no indication of him having security, which is pretty rare for a major ceo, particularly one who is attending a publicly advertised event like this shareholders conference. so there are a lot of questions around that and why exactly he did not appear to have security with him. you add to that the fact that his wife tells nbc news that he had received threats, that he told her he had been receiving threats, and so she said to us that there may have been a lack of coverage there. so certainly, a lot of questions about whether security was offered to him, and perhaps he declined that coverage or whether there was never security that was offered to him, and that is going to come up as police are continuing to investigate, but it's also going to come up in terms of liability

potentially for unitedhealth care and whether it would have been prevented if he had security detail with him, especially as he's going out to this event where people could look it up and could potentially find him as it appears the suspect did. >> priscilla thompson, thank you. the ex-leader of the proud boys is testifying today in the trial of a police officer who is accused of being a double agent. nbc's ryan riley is following this story for us. what did we hear from tarrio? >> reporter: he first testified on behalf of the defense, the first defense witness when the defense took over. then we got into cross-examination, and essentially what we had was a really combative situation with tarrio trying to dodge any question he could. when he first got up there, he said he wasn't going to answer any questions about the proud boys. he was asked a simple question whether the proud boys were there on january 6th. he said i'm not going to answer questions about this. the judge chimed in with, oh,

yes, you are. then there was a little sidebar. and they found a way to ask the questions. even when he's shown these text messages or these encrypted messages between himself and the defendant, who was a metropolitan police department officer, he was combatting on every one. he was refusing to acknowledge whether or not they were real. he said he can read what was on the screen but didn't remember, didn't recall. and the issue here is really because he has that 22-year federal prissant sentence, there's not a good method of holding him accountable or forcing him to tell the truth on the stand because if he was held in contempt, for example, his conditions of confinement would be better than they currently are. even yesterday, we saw he was able to reach out to one of his favorite outlets because he was being held not in the bureau of prison systems but being held by alexandria police. he was able to talk to the gateway pundit, gave an interview. that's what we see on the sand, that same enrique tarrio who we

have seen be very interested in media and he himself said he was trying to set up a circus tent ahead of january 6th. and get as much attention as possible on the fact that he was going to be arrested ahead of the capitol attack, chris. >> ryan riley, thank you for that. let's go to capitol hill now, where elon musk and vivek ramaswamy are meeting with lawmakers. julie tsirkin is there, and speaker johnson just spoke. we thought he woith mare from the two billionaires but get us up to speed. what's happening? >> reporter: no, vivek ramaswamy and elon musk with his son, i should add, who has been up with him for meetings all day, walked right past the cameras and house speaker mike johnson spoke to reporters alone. he took two questions. he didn't really lay out any specifics, as elon musk has and earlier in the day when i pressed him, what specific cuts are you talking about? what are you looking to target? what areas will you focus on? everybody today who has met with musk and musk himself say they have been talking in general

terms and the public's money should be spent wisely. what johnson just said is the doge effort will be bipartisan. it's bicameral. it should be those things. he pointed to a few democrats that expressed interest in joining the house committee as well as the senate caucus, which is an independent effort. he said he was asked for work from home policy for federal employees. that is something reported the doge caucus would target, of course, in conjunction with congress. he said it's, quote, absurd that he said, according to a report, just 1% of federal employees show up to the office every day. of course, it's been a long time since there was work from home flexibility. this is one of the areas they're looking at. also, there were questions about cuts to defense spending, to the military. susan collins, for example, earlier told me she wants to make sure our military has the adequate iness level, but there are potentially levels they could cut. john thune, the senate incoming

republican leader who met with elon musk this morning, told me that perhaps mandatory programs are areas they're looking to make cuts in, like social security, for example. but again, no specifics were laid out there. only that reforms have to happen, as musk and ramaswamy get their meeting under way, happening right now with lawmakers on both ends of the capitol. >> thank you. in 90 seconds, can joe biden's closest allies push him to set a new pardon precedent? why some want him to use the ultimate power to shield people from political retribution. icaln through the power of dell ai with intel. so those who receive can find the joy of giving back. have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub?

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in what would almost certainly be one of the most controversial decisions of his presidency, joe biden is reportedly considering pre-emptive blanket pardons for officials in donald trump's cross hairs. politico cites senior democrats familiar with the discussions in reporting biden's aides are deeply concerned about a range of current and former officials who could find themselves facing inquiries and even indictments. a sense of alarm which has only accelerated since trump last weekend announced the appointment of kash patel to lead the fbi. patel not alone in publicly vowing to pursue trump's critics. >> if you're president again, will you lock people up? >> well, i'll give you an example. the answer is you have no choice because they're doing it to us. >> we're going to come after the

people in the media and lied about american citizens, who helped joe biden rig presidential elections. whether it's criminally or civilly, we'll figure it out. >> the department of justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted, the bad ones. the investigators will be investigated. >> but multiple blanket pardons would be a dramatic escalation of biden's widely criticized pardon of his son hunter and one of the people who could be on the pardon list has already said no thanks. now, the serious longterm questions it raises of precedent and ethics are being weighed against real threats of retribution that could upend careers and lives of trump critics. i want to bring in professor at princeton university and msnbc political analyst eddie glaude, former chief strategist for the bush/cheney 2004 campaign, matthew dowd, and with us, university of baltimore law professor and author of the book "pardon power, how the pardon

system works and why" kim wehle. we keep hearing about how broad presidential pardons are, so the obvious question is, could joe biden do this? >> the question is always if he did it, what's the consequence? less so, what's actually in the constitution, which is not much about pardons. and i don't think there would necessarily be any accountability for something like that unless donald trump later were to prosecute these folks anyway. they would raise this broad pardon as a defense, and then in that instance, it would go to the united states supreme court. of course, richard nixon was pardoned by gerald ford without any indictment actually pending against richard nixon. i think that set historical precedent for the notion that pardons before indictment, after the conduct has happened, before indictment, have been de facto accepted under american law even though the supreme court's never addressed that specific issue. >> so eddie, in argument for people who think this might not

be a bad idea is listen to what he's telling you, meaning donald trump, npr did a count during the 2024 campaign, they found that donald trump, quote, made more than 100 threats to investigate, prosecute, imprison, or otherwise punish his perceived enemies including political opponents and private citizens. is there reason not to take him at his word? >> no, we need to understand him, to be as direct and as honest as he he has been. trump has proven over and over again, chris, that he's a man of his word. and i put that in inverted commas because he's so prone to tell untruths. people have a right, i think, to be absolutely concerned. but the implications for a kind of blanket pardon in this sense is, as you rightly noded in the lead, a kind of escalation. we would have to ask the question, what would it mean for

presidential pardoning power post such an escalation? and i think we need to be clear as well that if he's willing to target folks in the way he says he's going to do, he's going to target them anyway, even if there is a kind of blanket pardon and then we'll have an issue at the supreme court. >> so when we talk about what would it mean post escalation. there are two questions, one is political and one is legal. matthew, let me ask you the political ones. it's not like joe biden is running again, so in that sense, there are no political implications. some democrats will tell you they think that they are going to pay a price, that they have lost the argument to say, we have to hold to a higher standard. but what do you think about this? >> well, first, happy holidays to you, chris, and eddie, and kim. i hope it's great and peaceful and restful, as we discuss these harrowing situations. i have three reasons why i think this is a big mistake. one of which i guess is political, maybe the second is

political two. first is joe biden made a commitment before election day, when all of this was said, this was all said before election day. donald trump said it, kash patel said it, all these folks said this before election day. and joe biden made a commitment, he wasn't going to pardon his son. by extension, he wasn't going to give blanket pardons to other people. first, he went back on what he said prior to election day, even though we all knew, if joe biden was planning on doing this, in my view, he should have said this before election day when all this was getting started. i don't trust this guy, and if he gets elected, i'm going to take care of business and protect these people. that's one problem. there's a level in my view of dishonesty or shadiness in this. the second is, people who confront autocracies and people who confront the situation, part of the power of that is the struggle through it. as the civil rights leaders brought, many who ended up in jail, many of whom were arrested, all wrongly, all in

acts of injustice, but by virtue of the fact they went through the system, it gave power to the movement. when you do these blanket pardons it takes power away from the movement. the other part is all the people that are talking about given pardons to are people with means financially, and all people who are mostly prominent in the public eye who have much greater power. what about the other hundreds and thousands of americans that donald trump might go after that don't have financial means, that don't have the capacity to get in the public eye, that he could easily harass and hassle? to me, it's a brand of elitism. and the third thing, which i think is the most powerful thing politically in this, is it takes the moral high ground by doing this in my view, it takes the moral high ground and the fight for democracy and by extension the rule of law away from the democrats or dilutes it badly in this. for all the statements that have been made about we need to establish the rule of law, the

executive power has too much -- the executive branch has too much power and donald trump is going to use it to establish an autocracy. when joe biden walks out the door, he's go to exercise executive power in a way that sounds a lot like what donald trump would do or say, and i think it fractures the pro-democracy movement. it fractures it seriously. and i think it sort of dilutes the moral high ground that you would have if you didn't do this. so for those three reasons i think it's a huge mistake. >> yeah, and i think for a lot of folks, they agree with you. probably on one, two, and three. but let me go back to you, kim, because if we're going to look at what the post-presidential landscape looks like after joe biden has left office, and what this might mean going forward, i mean, what does it mean if there really are big threats? will we have the ability to protect people against them? what are the implications of taking this to that kind of

level? >> well, i think the immunity decision over the summer when the supreme court injected immunity for presidents into the constitution, when it's not there, and in fact, it suggested in the impeachment clause, the alternative, the supreme court literally amended the constitution to put the president above the law, able to use executive power to commit crimes. in this moment, that means manufacturing or destroying evidence, if donald trump were to decide do that, there would be no accountability. the law is only about incentives and disincentives. that's why we have laws. what's the disincentive for donald trump given everything he said and what he did the last time and the multiple crimes he's committed and gotten away with, to use the full power of law enforcement against his critics? that is a new day for the justice department. i think we're heading into a completely revised view of democracy because we don't have any meaningful guardrails and

pushbacks. and i see this as joe biden coming late in the game. i think some more aggressive things could have been done in the last few years by democrats both in the white house and in the united states congress to push back vigorously on the degradation of the rule of law and the constitution and democracy. if in this moment he's able to save the trauma, the country some trauma of some political retributions in the waning days of his office, to me, i don't see that as having later a boomerang effect because we're already there. we're already there with this man who has been elected, with his promises, with who he's putting in office, and with the supreme court green lighting the use of the scary power, the official power, to commit crimes with impunity. >> i want to play, to that point, and i'll connect the points, eddie, something that democratic senator ed markey signaled. he said biden should wait until the last possible minute to make a decision on this. here's what he said. >> if it's clear by january 19th

that that is his intention, then i would recommend to president biden that he provide those pre-emptive pardons to people, because that's really what our country is going to need next year. >> the fact that we're even having this conversation, eddie, and as kim pointed out, we're talking about a revised view of democracy, what does it say about this moment we're in? >> well, chris, we're in a moment of crisis. we're standing on the precipice in so many ways. and in a sense, i agree with both matt and with senator markey. i think kim has kind of given us a nice framework, but it seems to me that we need to create the conditions under which the supreme court will have to address this question. and so, if donald trump decides

to go ahead and pursue a conviction or a criminal indictment of these folk after the blanket pardon has been issued, we need to push it and see where we're going to land. and i want to say this about matt's point, too, the third point about the ceding the moral high ground. oftentimes when we're dealing with bad actors, they presume we'll be constrained by our commitment to norms. they presume we're going to be restrained by our commitment to moral norms. that allowed them free reign to act any way they can, any way they want to. the moment we fight back, i'm not saying we should in this instance, but the moment we fight back, they clutch their pearls and claim you're just like us. and if we don't fight back, they just run roughshod. it's a catch-22 and we need to understand that for what it is as we try to devise strategies. >> you probably saw this, eddie, because i know you're a prolific

reader, but katie martin wrote a great op-ed. her father was in a prison in budapest, and she talks about the scourge of autocracy, how it sneaks up on you, telling people not to give up. this is a conversation i would love to have with the three of you again. kim, matthew, and eddie. eddie, you're going to stick around. >> we do have breaking news. a vartsunami warning just went into effect in a large swath of northern california and parts of oregon. just moments after the u.s. multiple earthquakes there. magnitude. the b.a.r.t. public transportation system has halted local service. local stations report they have seen waves rise in the bay area. this is just breaking, waiting to get more information. we will have it for you as it comes in. coming up, contentious,

explosive, and for the last time, what we learned and didn't at the final hearing for the house committee investigating the attempted assassination of donald trump. >> i'm asking you a serious question. >> i'm a public serviceant who has served this nation. has servn there are some feelings you can get with any sportsbook. ohhh! the highs! no, no, no. the no, no, noooos - oooooooo! the oh, oh, ohhhhs! now whatcha wanna do with this? but the feeling that, no matter what, you're taken care of. ohhh, i just earned a hotel suite! hee! you only get that here. at the sportsbook born in vegas, where they know how to treat you right. who you talking to jamie foxx? bonus bets. exclusive offers. real world rewards. betmgm. download and bet today.

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president trump will likely inheart a chaotic situation in the middle east. tuation in the middle east. today, anger and yelling when secret service acting

director ronald rowe faced tough questions from the house task force that's investigating the assassination attempts against president-elect trump. rowe was pushed on whether he's made the promised changes at the agency and whether agents, secret service agents, moved out of their unusual positions to be more visible at a 9/11 remembrance ceremony this we're. >> what you're not seeing is the detail out of the picture's view. and that is the day where we remember the more than 3,000 people that have died on 9/11. i actually responded to ground zero. i was there going through the ashes of the world trade center. i was there at fresh kills. >> i'm not asking you that. >> i was there, congressman! i was there to show respect for a secret service member that died on 9/11. >> you're trying to be -- >> do not invoke 9/11 for political purposes. >> were you the special agent in charge that day? >> i wasn't there.

i was representing the united states secret service, sir. >> your time has expired. >> you know why you were there? you want to be visible because you were auditioning for this job. you endangered president biden's life, vice president harris' life, because you were -- you put those agents out of position. did you have a radio with you? >> your time has expired. >> i did, sir, and you're out of line. >> joining me now, nbc's ken dilanian, and former secret service special agent, evy palm porous. i have been inside for some hearings. that is an extraordinary level of vitriol and that back and forth was uncomfortable to listen to. tell us what more we heard. >> reporter: it really was, chris. so pat fallon, the congressman there, former notre dame football player, congressman from texas, no shrinking violet. neither is ronald rowe, the acting director of the secret service. what that was about, though, was

whistleblowers went to some republican members of congress and claimed that rowe put people at risk in that photo you saw of that 9/11 ceremony by being in it himself and putting agents out of position. fallon was accusing him of grand standing. the larger lesson here is particularly the maga wing of the republican party in the house is sort of fed up with the acting secret service director. even though he is sort of portrayed himself as a reformer, that he's changing the agency in the wake of the debacle. the director resigned and he took over, but he was the deputy director during the assassination attempt. he seems to be at the end of his rope a little bit. he's claiming he's reforming the agency. there wasn't a lot of new ground covered today. take a listen to this exchange where another member of congress. >> your guys showed up that day and didn't give a [ bleep ]. there was apathy and complacency, period, and that's your mission now.

i appreciate all the systems and the technology that everybody else has asked about. but this is a leadership issue. this is a command climate issue, a culture issue. >> we are reorganizing and reimagining this organization. that includes making sure that we are developing a leadership development program. >> so look, the proof will be in the pudding. we have a new administration coming in which may have their own ideas, chris, about who should lead the secret service. >> so, as you know then, are these leadership and culture issues, and i mean, culture is not an easy thing to change. it takes time, but i wonder what you make of that back and forth. >> culture starts at the top. i think everybody knows this. it always starts with the leadership and goes down from there. and i do think that there are some valid points to push back at the acting director. he was the number two in charge at this time. the second most senior person when the assassination attempt happened.

so he does bear responsibility. with that, i do think that although it got heated, it is a fair question to ask, you know, why were you there during this ceremony? and especially if whistleblowers are saying something and perhaps it was other agents or other individuals saying, you know, what was his purpose? so i do absolutely think it has to do with leadership. a couple of the other things, too, that lead me to the conclusion of this is cultural, this is morale, this is leadership. there are so many systemic failures here. even listening to him, he's changed so many things. he's creating an aviation unit so they can have proper training to use the drone, which the person who had the drone didn't have proper training. he's creating a research operation at the secret service which they used to have and no longer have. this is to create and get new technology and advancements. he's also creating an auditing program, which means after a protection assignment, people

see what's right, what's going wrong. hiring, 60%, this was astonishing, 60% of special agents have ten years or less on the job. so a lack of seniority there, a lack of knowledge. even using tech like blue force support, this is so that you know during an advance where everybody is, especially when you work with a lot of different agencies. you want to know where all the friendlies are. there's so many changes he's making. when you hear you're making all these changes, the whole system from inside, that's the problem. >> well, they spoke about a lot of the changes that were always making to impact not just hiring and the operation of the agency but also the culture, right, but let me play for you what he had to say looking forward, because there are already conversations about what about the next presidential election? here's what he said about '28. >> when i look at what we have ahead of us in '28, another presidential campaign, an

incumbent who is not going to be out there, who is not seeking office but is probably going to be out there campaigning. it's going to be a tough year in '28. >> i just wonder if there's ever not going to be a tough year. i mean, and we saw this year, for example, there were multiple things going on at one time, not the least of which here in new york city, was the u.n. general assembly. so many different things that were challenging the agency. is there a larger reassessment of manpower, of resources that still needs to happen? >> yes. i mean, their manpower issues are significant. he even talked about doing less with more, and that's been a cultural thing. i can tell you that it was always seen as almost a positive thing, the more you can do with less, you're doing a great job, but he also talked about how over time it had a deteriorating effect on the agency. all these things start with the top down. and i do agree with you. 2028, okay, what is the difference there?

you won't have an incumbent president, which for the most part of the year, although president biden pulled out, the majority of the year he was the incumbent. what how's saying is you'll have two individuals vying for the presidency who are going to be pushing hard on the campaign trail. a lot of events, a lot of hours, a lot of manpower. >> ken and evy, thank you very much. so now we're closely following a tsunami warning still in effect for northern california and oregon. multiple earthquakes have been recorded in the area, including one as strong as a 7.0 magnitude. officials say the warnings will remain in effect until further notice. i want to bring in the professor of earth and planetary sciences, jeffrey park, from yale university. so tell us a little bit about what we should be watching for in the coming minutes and hours. >> well, there's a pretty large earthquake that occurred fairly close to shore. i mean, maybe 50 kilometers or

so off. and these are always a concern for tsunamis because what will happen is that the earthquake plates will move, and the sea floor moves up and down. and then water gets displaced and you get tsunamis. they start flowing all different directions. so these kinds of warnings before we actually know the precise behavior of the earthquake -- before the actual earthquake. wait a second. sorry. with a particularly large earthquake, we can't be sure exactly what its mechanism is, so to be in all safety, you need to get people away from the coastline. >> we're just hearing from the police department that west berkeley has evacuated. what does that say to you?

>> west berkeley in the bay area? >> that's what -- i'm being told this in my ear. can you confirm that for me, marty? yes. that's right. >> that's interesting because the area of the earthquake itself, near cape mendocino, is much smaller, very far away from berkeley. >> yeah. so again, the epicenter, just to tell people, was under the pacific ocean, about 70 miles southwest of eureka, 110 miles northwest of mendocino. and there were reports that the shaking around the eureka area, according to a seismologist was actually quite strong, but that would be a far point off for it to be in berkeley, yeah? >> yeah, that would be -- that's a pretty long stretch. in the coastal areas of cape mendocino, there have been very strong shaking, but there's not

an urban area there. it's mostly kind of a recreational area with places where you can go to the beach. and farming. so it's not -- i mean, there will be shaking there but not a great deal of damage. >> so for folks who hear that it has an epicenter under the pacific ocean and not somewhere under land, does that make necessarily a difference in terms of the possible problems? >> oh, yeah. if it's under land, you would be having entire communities that would under go severe shaking and great damage. and perhaps loss of life. we work to try to make buildings and various infrastructure resilient to that kind of shaking, but it's still a big, big concern if an earthquake of this size were to happen inside like the bay area, for instance,

or inside the l.a. basin, the los angeles basin, this would be a big, big problem. >> so i have been reading some of the reporting from the los angeles times, so let me credit them. they say in the past ten days, dr. park, there have been two earthquakes of magnitude 3.0 or greater that were centered nearby to where this was. could that have been a warning? >> well, earthquake effect signs occur quite often in this region. this is not an area that is quiet. magnitude 6.5, magnitude 7 earthquakes have been occurring over the last few decades in the youk era area. we don't hear about it very much because it's not heavily populated. >> this is the first interview we're getting in, a man who lives in eureka who is describing the moment he felt the earthquake hit. let's listen. >> oh, my gosh. it's weird. i went to bed last night and thought, god, we haven't had an earthquake in a long time.

i actually thought that last night. and we're sitting here having coffee in the morning here. me and my wife, we're on our phones. all of a sudden, our phones start beeping loud. i mean, the response is amazing with this alert system. and it says that we're about to have an earthquake, severe earthquake come. and it was like it hit right when it said that on our phones. and we kind of -- we have been through a lot of these up here, and you kind of sit there and wait for it and see if it's a big one. all of a sudden, it started really getting bigger. and we had to run outside. and we heard our chandelier swinging back and forth. and all the paintings were getting crooked and things were tipping over in the house. in the kitchen mostly. big jars full of beans and rice and stuff. but man, and all the neighbors were outside. it's amazing, the neighbors all come out and start talking to each other and stuff. it was crazy. >> what about some of the

aftershocks? have you been able to feel those as well? >> we haven't had an aftershock and we're waiting for that. >> again, that was a man in eureka. dr. park, i never went through 7.0 earthquake, but i did live in los angeles for almost three years, and went through some earthquakes. and it does have that sort of building effect, and you start to see the lights that are in the ceiling start to move, and then they move more. he's very calm. a lot of people in california have been through earthquakes before. but they're right, they should be waiting for aftershocks. >> yes, yes. there will be aftershocks with this quake. they're typically going to be much smaller but they could occur over a period of days and weeks. so that -- the aftershocks are typically much smaller so much less damaging. if the extent of shaking he's already experienced is what he describes, it's probably going

to mostly be a nuisance rather than a serious concern. however, when you're on the coastline, the shaking is much greater because the earthquake is that much closer. now, about the tsunami warnings, those are serious things. when a tsunami can catch up on you if you're on the beach. you can't outrun it, so i would go to higher ground if you're anywhere near the coastline, near eureka. >> can i also tell you, we heard from someone in arcadia, and they said that the water now is retreating. is that in advance of something else that might happen? >> well, sometimes the first motion of the tsunami is actually a recession of the water away from the shoreline and then it comes racing in. so if he sees it racing out, you turn around and run. >> literally. >> yes. yes. you turn around and run. >> yeah.

okay. >> don't mess around. >> i did go to earthquake training when i lived in california, and it did scare the bejeepers out of me. i changed the way my house was, my apartment was. i didn't remember turn and run. if you can stay with us, i'm sure you're listening to updates as well. let me go to meteorologist bill karins and what can you tell us? >> give you a little update. right now, an hour since this thing struck, this is so close to the coast f we had a tsunami, it would have hit the california coast and oregon coast for that matter. ft. bragg was supposed to be the first location that would see the tsunami. we have not seen any reports from ft. bragg. there was someone walking their dog, no signs of any tsunami. didn't mean there wasn't a little one or still couldn't be one, but all indxzs are if we were to have a really bad tsunami, destructive tsunami, we would be hearing about it. it would have hit a half-hour ago. we still have the tsunami

warnings in place. san francisco, about ten minutes after noon, if you get the tsunami, that's when it would be expected. i have seen pictures, there are people going to the coast above cliffs because they want to watch a tsunami coming in. there are boats leaving the harbors because that's what you're told to do when you have warnings because you need to get off the coast. but once again, the tsunami warnings are up, but we have zero indications that a tsunami has reached the coast. these are up, we're going to leave them in place. take your precautions, but every minute that goes by that we don't hear of any devastating tsunami, all the better. that's great, fantastic. the magnitude 7.0 is a very strong earthquake. roughly about 70 miles off the coast. the depth matters with these earthquakes. if they're really deep in the ground, they displace usually typically less water. this was about ten kilometers, six miles deep down in the ocean. that's not considered shallow but it's not deep either. that's why we had the tsunami

warnings. the is on a well known fault line. we have had a couple other 3.0s, a 4 i saw also, and then the big one, the 7.0. here's a closer view. the areas that would have seen what we call severe shaking or strong shaking would have been eureka, this area, this is a relatively unpopulated coastal area. count of mountainous here and it's also wooded and hilly. that's why we haven't seen any pictures of any big damage either. as far as the scale goes, we keep track of these across the globe. and this is for the entire planet. this one was a 7.0. about 18 of these happen on our planet every year. relatively rare, and especially to only be 70 miles off the california coast, you get why everyone is extremely concerned. and all indications are as of now that there's not a devastating tsunami. again, i'm looking at my watch here. if there was one, it should be arriving in the san francisco bay area in about 25 minutes.

hopefully they'll cancel these warnings and say there wasn't one, but all eyes now on the coast. >> dr. park, what are the defining characteristics of a tsunami? >> defining characteristics is what happens is if you have an earthquake that occurs offshore, underneath the water, and displaces the sea floor upward or downward, either way, that creates a divot in the sea surface and that divot starts to travel as a wave in all directions. and that wave once it strikes the coastline will have all of the energy of the original column of water that got displaced under the sea floor. crowded into the surf zone. you get a much larger tsunami, a wave that once it hits the shore relative to the motion of the earthquake occurred on the sea floor. in the case of the earthquake of 2004, you know, you had

30-meter-tall tsunamis that were caused by maybe displacement of the ocean, traveling along at maybe only one meter, but all that energy and the whole column of water gets trapped into the surf zone and increases the size of the tsunami. so it's a serious issue. now, what could be happening, and this is very common around eureka, is most of the earthquakes are what we call strike slip earthquakes like the ones that often occur in the san andreas fault, where the motion is sideways. if it's sideways, it's not displacing water. it's moving sideways relative to it. so its effectness in generating a tsunami is weaker. however, as a responsible public official, you never know whether the earthquake is going to exactly have that kind of mechanism. it could be displacing the

surface and -- the sea surface, and therefore generating a tsunami. so especially an earthquake of this size, you take all precautions. >> so there are a couple things. you mentioned public officials. i want to update folks. a national weather service tsunami official on nbc bay area's live feed said we're not getting any indications that we have a destructive tsunami for the west coast. in addition, from the governor's office, the governor has been briefed on the earthquake off the coast of northern california and the resulting tsunami warning. he is now meeting with state emergency officials and working to insure californians are safe. the state operations center is activated to coordinate any needed response. so obviously, governor gavin newsom and his teams are on top of this. but i want to go to nbc's morgan chesky who is in california. and i understand you just spoke to a local business owner. >> reporter: yeah, chris.

i spoke to a business owner in ferndale, california, that we believe to be one of the hardest hit communities of this earthquake. ferndale, about three hours south of the oregon border there. a community of about 1500 people. i spoke to the owner of valley grocery store there in that coastal town, who told me that they had about a minute of significant shaking there. it was the strongest earthquake he's felt since moving to this town about a decade ago. and that over the course of that 60-second shake, a lot of their products just fell onto the floor of the grocery store, causing significant mess there. he doesn't believe that they have any structural damage to the building right now. he said when he walked outside and looked down the street, he couldn't see any visible cracks in any of the buildings in the town square. but he says that they have lost internet and that they're currently trying to find people

to help them clean up, while we know a tsunami warning has been issued for that very area. we have heard reports, chris, up and down the northern california coastline of tsunami alarms going off, urging people to seek shelter at higher ground. this report was coming from ferndale, california, a town of about 1500 people, where there are early reports of damage, at least to the interior of homes and businesses there, still awaiting to hear if there's any structural issues with the buildings in that town. but all eyes now go to the tsunami potential that could be making its way to the california coastline here. >> yeah, and let me tell you a couple things that we're just learning. you spoke about ferndale and a nearby town, patrol yeah, very strong shaking felt there. as defined by the intensity

scale. that is a level at which chimneys can break, considerable damage can be had in poorly built or badly designed structures. there's been a whole reinvention of building in california, and the earthquake proofing, but the tsunami is a whole different thing. the national weather service now reporting, and bill, i'm going to go to you on this. i'm just getting this from my producer, estimating a start time for a tsunami in san francisco, local. or 3:10 eastern time, which would be about 19 minutes from now. >> correct. and they calculate as soon as the earthquake happens, they can tell how long it will take that wave to get to san francisco. on the west coast of the united states, we have one of the most advanced tsunami warning systems in the entire planet. so the fact that we're over an hour now when we have no tsunami detected, it would be shocking if we had anything of huge significance heading for san francisco bay. all of our buoy and our systems

off the coast would have detected already by now. we would have pictures from crescent city and ft. bragg if it hit. it's not like it's one rogue wave. it's a circle and it spreads out in all directions. it would have gone north up into oregon and south down the california coast. we have yet to hear any reports in san francisco also saying the same thing, they have no signs of any destructive tsunami heading their way. the warning stays up, we'll monitor it, but san francisco, if we get to 15 minutes after the next hour, then it's all clear for you. >> let me go to justin, a captain with the san francisco fire department. what are you hearing and what are you preparing for, captain? >> good afternoon. san francisco and the san francisco fire department, of course, is an all hazards agency, ready for any emergency, especially an earthquake. when the national weather service issues a tsunami warning which is their highest level, we take notice.

our residents and visitors along the coastline are advised by national park service and police to move inward based on the national weather service recommendation and following the tsunami evacuation routes posted throughout the city. as a result of the earthquake, we don't have reports of damage or injuries within san francisco, but our coastal communities are stepping up, checking on neighbors and the elderly and trying to get to higher ground just in case that 12:10 is something bad. >> i'm trying to remember exactly where the san francisco zoo and gardens are, because they have been closed because of the tsunami warning. guests evacuated, animals secure. where is that in relation to the coast? >> that is on the southwest end of the city, and it is pretty much right on the beach. it's right at sea level, so it would be susceptible to a quickly rising sea level and also waves. >> and captain, when you're talking about the preparations that you make, the tsunami warning, the national park

service warning people, getting people inward, we were listening to bill karins talking about after an hour, if you haven't seen this major activity, the chances of it being a huge tsunami decrease. is there a point at which you would expect you can tell people there's an all clear? >> we're monitoring local and national media, radio, just like we're recommending that all of our citizens and visitors do to try to get more information. as we get information from cities that are between us and the epicenter that know there isn't any extreme wave activity, we might be able to take a deep breath. as we know, we won't know until a good amount of time goes by and the experts tell us that it's all clear. that's what we're waiting for. our community is prepared for this and we're going to do our best to help everyone. >> we certainly wish you well and take care out there, captain. jeffrey park, invaluable

information. bill karins, morgan chesky. we'll continue to look at this breaking news but that's going to do it for me this hour. more breaking news on the tsunami warnings in northern california and oregon when katy tur picks up coverage next. r pit ♪ ♪ come taste it! ♪

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. we were going to watch a potentially dramatic situation playing out along a broad swath of the california and