prominent political figures including the leaders of both the ruling and opposition parties. the chief of the army warfare command defied an order from the then defense minister to draw out lawmakers during marshal law operations. this is why what happened in south korea so notable remarkable. the military refused to follow the president's authoritarian orders. the lawmakers defied law. even grabbed a soldier's rifle, ordinary people took to the streets in the freezing cold in defiance. in an era where democracy is happening worldwide, is a reassuring writer that it is people who will fight to preserve it. that is all it for the week. alex wagner starts tonight. good evening. >> it's kind of like the spiritual inverse of brexit. ooh, maybe here. ooh, maybe here. maybe. >> i love the opposition

spokesperson with the hand on her rifle. a remarkable moment. >> i have to say apologizing for declaring marshal law, unusual. it's unusual. yeah, any way. have a great weekend. >> you too. >> you've earned it. >> thank you. >> we have a lot to get to this evening but i do want to start with the news that is currently breaking the internet. quite literally. today a federal panel of judges upheld a new law one sign ed by president biden banning the chinese owned company tiktok in the united states. the law gives tiktok parent company bite dance until february 19 of next year to sell the platform to a nonchinese company or it will no longer be available to u.s. users. this is a complex high stakes policy that will require experienced diplomats to try to carry it out. diplomatics like this guy. nicholas burns. ambassador burns is has served as ambassador to nato, to greece, and has served in high

level positions in and all over the state department. but yesterday, we learned who donald trump wants to put in that same position. former republican senator david perdue of georgia. perdue is likely being rewarded for his years of service to donald trump as a stallworth election denier. in 2022, perdue unsuccessfully tried to primary georgia's republican governor after kemp refused to go along with trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election results. david perdue is not entirely devoid of business in china. he was at once a resident of hong kong and worked for dollar general and reebok. it's unknown to know how a former businessman has the diplomatic chops to go toe to

toe with the chinese government about the potential sale of tiktok. and yet, when it comes to trump's most questionable appointments perdue nomination is not likely to be high on anybody's list. and that is because donald trump has nominated so many supremely unfit people to important government positions, that it's hard to keep track of them all. consider trump's pick to lead the internal revenue service, billy long of missouri. billy long's nomination has not gotten a lot of attention but it probably should. given that during his time in congress, long repeatedly cosponsored a bill that would have abolished the irs. which is the very agency he's now being tapped to lead. what happens if the guy in charge of collecting the tax re revenue to fund the government should not even exist?

who knows. then there's oil industry chris wright. a man who has emphatically denies that there's climate change. wright has gone to some fairly extreme lengths posting videos of himself drinking a cocktail of fraking chemicals. >> so joel is mixing a collection of chemicals here. we use it to clean your swimming pools, pyloacrilite and we have a surphat known as soap. come on in everybody, let's drink from oil and gas. >> cheers. >> that guy, the guy making his

employees take a shot of bleach and soap on camera. that's the man donald trump wants to put in charge of u.s. energy policy. then there's trump's pick to be the next director of national intelligence. former congresswoman gabbert. concerned members of congress and the intelligence communities have been ringing alarms about gabbert's ties to russia and syria and this week, the associated press is reporting that nearly 100 former u.s. senior diplomats and intelligence and national security officials have urged senate leaders to schedule closed door hearings to allow for a full review of the government's files on gabbert before they consider her nomination. it is not a great sign when you nominate someone to lead american intelligent agencies and members of the agencies say, maybe you should read the secret files we have on her before you go and do that.

it is not a great sign. then of course there's trump's choice that has been dominating the headlines. his embattle pick for secretary of defense pete hegseth. hegsteh has faced a week facing a swirl of allegations of heavy drinking on the job, financial mismanagement and sexual misconduct all allegations he denies. nbc news has reported that as many as six republican senators don't yet support hegseth which is enough to sink his nomination. today trump himself finally and publicly came to hegseth's defense. >> looks like pete is doing well now. people were a little bit concerned. he's a young guy with a tremendous track record actually. went to princeton and went to har voir -- harvard. he was a good student at both and he loves the military. people are starting to see it.

we'll be working on his nomination along with all the others. >> since you bring him up. do you still have confidence on pete hegseth. >> yes, i've known him through fox but i've known him for a long time. he's basically a military guy. every time i talk to him, always he wants to talk about is the military. he's a military guy. >> have you gotten assurances from senators that he's going to get confirmed. do you think he's going to make it. >> you don't drink yourself, you've talked about how devastating drinking can be. how concerned are you that the person you picked for this top job at the defense department, at least according to those who have worked with him has struggled with drinking. >> but i've spoken to people that know him very well and they say he does not have a drinking problem. >> display of, support.

behind the scenes, trump is reportedly not doing much to help hegseth. trump has not been working the phones for hegseth as he did for matt gaetz. and according to the washington post, hegseth has been told not to expect trump to put pressure on republicans. trump has apparently learned the lesson from the gaetz debacle and is not ready to stick his neck out for another nominee. the people around trump see an upside to all of this. according to a new story from mark caputo, aids to trump believe that if hegseth is drawing fire from critics he will take attention off of other trump nominees like

patel. pete can take the heat, and that's better for everyone else. joining me now are eugene daniels. eugene let me start with how this reporting we're getting tonight, trump's comments which are getting some of the new airings from meet the press. how that all squares from what you're hearing from washington on the hill about pete hegseth's support and how along his nomination might move? >> it seems this changes every single day and sometimes multiple times a day. at this point the aids around president trump feel better about it but the same senators who have concerns and are worried about both the allegations and the different reports. we've seen most of them are still in the exact same place. you heard, from hearnst who has

railed against the dod and the pentagon and sexual assault against that organization. she tweeted today she was looking forward to keeping, continuing to talk with pete hegseth. not a ringing endorsement in saying that all of these things needed an airing. so it tells you that, on the hill, things seem to kind of be on the exact same place which is not where pete hegseth wants it to be. but president trump and his allies are feeling better about it. that's where things stand as we sit here. the idea that president trump was calling around for matt gaetz is something we thought would happen every time that one of these folks would be in danger. but they're starting to change a little bit of that at least publicly. >> yeah, i feel like it's what you might call twisting in the wind a little bit.

donald trump is okay, if pete hegseth wants to keep going back to hearnst and keep saying please. there's a trump loyalty test and then whether the senate is going to vote on this confirmation. this is what hegseth tweeted. i just had another substantive conversation with senator hearnst. i look forward to meeting with her again next week. i mean, mckay you know well, the sort of, the dna of these republican senators who effectively know better and know that some of these nominees aren't qualified. if donald trump isn't bothering to pressure them, do you think they take the high road? >> well, it gives them a huge out, right. a lot of what's going on with these more extreme nominees is that it almost seems that trump is daring republicans in the senate to stop him, right. he's kind of testing just how much are they going let me get away with.

part of the reason why i'm guessing he's not placing too much pressure is he doesn't want to burn too many bridges. especially john thune the republican senate leader. i got a text a couple of weeks ago from a veteran republican staffer on the hill. and i asked him about thune he said, look. john thune i have a lot of admiration for him. i've heard him talk about the dangers of trump. but man i think he's going to fold immediately early on. that was the quote that i heard from him. now, that was a couple of weeks ago. we've seen some vulnerability with the matt gaetz pick and trump's muscle on the hill. but i do think this is just going to come down to whether republicans on the senate are willing to exert any strength and flex their muscle in terms of the advising consent, constitutional responsibility they have. if trump isn't on the phone, like really twisting their arms i think with at least a couple

of these we'll see some republicans step up. we'll have to see. >> yeah, there's always like, it seems like they'll probably do the right thing maybe. but who knows. >> i'm not going to make a bold prediction about that. >> i'm hearing that. i'm hearing that mckay. i understand. i sympathize right. all signs point to, this is an opportunity for you to do the right thing. then there's the reality of who donald trump is and the pull he has on the party. do you think that trump is essentially a lame duck. he will not and well, will he run again remains to be seen. but constitutionally he cannot run. there was some power for republicans who were not in the presidency but in other elected office to act like a check on him. do you think that's a reality they're even clocking at this stage of the game. >> i think there's some folks that are thinking that way.

right -fpt , but i think mostly we all have learned a lot of lessons since 2015 when donald trump jumped in the political fray. the top lesson should be that his hold on the republican party is unlike anything we've ever seen. every time that folks have felt that, susan collins or some of these other republican senators, are going to stand up to donald trump they have folded over and over and over again. whether you see that as them being loyal to their party or more importantly, i think a lot of people see it as them being loyal to one man. it's happened over and over again. so, yes, he's not allowed to run again for the presidency according to our constitution. but that, i don't think that means that his hold over the party getting them to do exactly what he wants them to do is going to stop. that's going to continue for as long as he's president. as long as he wants to be and acts like the leader of the republican party. there's something within the republican party where the other folks who could be leader refuse to do so.

can't do so. won't do so. and rise to that challenge. i think a lot of that has to do with, how much of a figure donald trump is. for the republican party and the folks that vote for him. and the maga, the maga movement it seems is actually real. that tells us these republicans will get some chances, right. we're seeing it, we saw it with matt gaetz when they called donald trump and said, hey this is a no go. we're not seeing that much now. they will have time after time after time over the next four years to stand up to donald trump if that's what they choose to do. it's just hard to see. a lot of people have gotten their hopes up over the years and then down over and over again. >> there's the reality of this script leading into there block. there are so many unqualified controversial nominees. the focus is immediately distracted. i will read a quote from mark caputo's piece. an advisor to the senate

republican put it bluntly. reporters are like flies at a picnic. if you put some food away from the picnic table the flies will swarm that and let everyone alone to eat at the bar-be-que. i guess eating at the bar-be- que is the metaphor we're using for hegseth. i don't know. but it's them trying to get everybody appointed that they want to get. >> the reality is, that the press only has so many column inches. so many minutes in their broadcast. so many people in their newsrooms to cover all of these nominees. the reality is, we just can't cover all of them and give them

all the investigation scrutiny that they deserve. we never really had a president who got such a slate of controversial and provocative rhetoric. those answers are going to be broadcast and constituents are going to put pressure on their lawmakers. if they don't like the answers they're hearing. >> the week the senate is really under pressure to fulfill its role with consent. mitt romney gave him closing

remarks as a senator in the upper chamber. so it goes, here we are. thank you so much for your comments this evening guys. >> do not forget you can catch kristin welker's full interview on nbc news meet the press this sunday. coming up, owners of major news outlets are coming under fire for bending the knee to the court of maga. but first, former president barack obama reveals his vision for the way forward. are congressional democrats listening. i'll discuss with raskin. stay with us.

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it's important to look for allies in unlikely places. and too often we assume the people on the other side have monolithic views. when in reality some of them may share our beliefs in sticking to the rules. observing norms, none of this will be easy. building up these habits and practices that so often we've lost. learning to trust each other again. that's a generational project. tomorrowing president barack obama in his first remarks called for the country

to find common ground. and that effort appears to be taking shape as a changing of the guard. today alexandra ocasio cortez called to become the top ranking oversight. the role they are vying for opened earlier this week when jamie raskin threw his name. and joining me is congressman raskin. it's great to have you. straight to the source of what exactly is happening. democrats in your caucus. first of all. what's happening here. it feels like and correct me if

i'm wrong. there may be a new generation that's rising through the ranks of generational leadership. >> generational politicians is always present. but what's happening is the democrats feel like we're in the fight of our live and we want to deploy and redeploy people to different positions to get ready for the fight to defend our democracy, our freedom and our constitution. >> i know that jeffreys is saying, we are getting ready for leadership role change

>> i've had hundreds of conversations with my colleagues about how best to arrange ourselves for the coming fight. you probably noticed alex, that there's a republican try treu trifecta. it's the thinnest it's been in a century. but they still have a tiny majority and we need to figure out the best strategy to pull over moderate republicans in districts that biden won or harris won on to side with us on issues like gun safety and women's right to choose. and we certainly need to be messaging a lot more effectively to america about what it is we're standing for and what we're fighting for. and so that means, we need to be messaging more effectively to your audience and then even beyond the msnbc audience to the rest of americans and people who are watching fox news right now. >> can i ask, because the news

is that alexandra ocasio cortez is throwing her name into the top democratic seat. >> i think they offer different strengths. and you know, different visions but they've worked closely together. and we've worked closely. he's familiar with the history and evolution of the committee. so we're going to have an interesting conversation about what we want to happen in the oversight committee both in minority and when we take the congress back in 2026. what we're going to do with the oversight committee to make sure that government is for the

people and not for billionaires. i think we've had a record number of billionaires nominated or assigned by donald trump to his new government. there's a name for that and it's olegargy. i want to go back to something you said about what this moment demands. you mentioned democrats need to talk to and appeal to people who aren't just watching our fabulous channel and are watching other networks like fox. when you think of someone like for example aoc who is an incredible voice in the democratic party and who i know works across the aisle on some

key initiatives. she's worked hand in hand with matt gaetz. not exactly known as a squish. but the impression is she's a fire brand appealing for more people from across the aisle. does that hurt the broader effort to widen the aperture if you will. if you have someone like her sitting on top one of the most powerful committees in congress. >> i think tough questions like that are going to be asked during this process. and i know they were asked you know in my campaign for the judiciary committee. which i know we have several more days before the meetings take place. we have to have those heart searching meditations. >> do you want to have one right now on air and tell me what you think. >> well the aoc who's in her

third term is representative is very different than the aoc who first entered. inevitably you become that when you're a member of congress and have to deal with right wing republicans and conservative republicans and conservative members of your caucus. and hierarchy and so on. and i'm sure conley our other candidate is very changed candidate from when he first began on the oversight committee. he's someone who is in a swing district and is now in a very blue district. the times call upon us to figure out how to expand the democratic party and to make us the party of democracy. because after all that's what we are. the gop does not even claim to be standing for democracy anymore. they stand on quasi principles

and their leader is surrounded by billionaire oligarchs. it's very different than the government we have here. it's different on our side because we're party based on pluralism and diversity. and we are traditionally the party of the working class, the middle class in america. so we have to put a lot of different elements together. to deal in this new environment. which is complicated by really segmented and decentralized media systems. >> i do want to ask you, just as we wrap up. just you know president former president obama, talked, i think quite eloquently about the work ahead. that it's not for the woke but the waking. that this is a generational effort to begin to trust each other again.

we are seeing congressman rokana. is it about democrats trying to find common cause with even the most magafied soldiers. >> i think it's important for us to protect the media and reporters from getting their notes because that's a breach

on freedom. people say that's romantic, idealistic. but the vast of lawmakers do it all the time. we will serve you if you have a problem with social security, medicare, ppp loan, department of education. whatever it is and we never ask you what your political party is. as we go to serve everybody who lives in the eighth district of maryland. i think most representatives think like that. i wish the republican senators in the second impeachment trial had taught that way. they were supposed to render an impartial verdict which meant nonpartisan but it ended up being pretty partisan. the most bipartisan verdict we've ever had in a presidential impeachment trial. we were note able to get to

that dispassional unobjective. >> reminding us of our french origins our democratic work at hand. it's great to have your perspective on all of this. >> you bet. coming up what happens when national newspapers start playing footsie with maga conservatives. about three or four years ago, i felt like i was starting to slip. i saw the prevagen commercials. after a short amount of time taking prevagen, i started noticing a difference-- i stopped taking prevagen and i found myself slacking back so i jumped right back on it. i've been taking prevagen for about two years now, and i've found a huge difference. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. ♪♪ whenever heartburn strikes, get fast relief with tums.

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this week the billionaire owner of the los angeles times dr. patrick chung announced a new artificial program that plans to use on everything the paper publishing starting in january. >> i'm now working with the team behind the scenes to create the ai version but not ai in the sense of, making up stories. but imagine if you could not take with you the news or opinion. and you have a bias meter. automatically the reader can press a button. and get both sides of the exact same story based on that story. >> in the past few months, dr. sun chun has moved his paper to the right by blocking his papers editorial board from supporting kamala harris and by

calling the paper itself an echo chamber. now his stance is notable not just because here's blaming his paper but he's not alone in trying to curry favor with the right wing. the billionaire owners of the washington post jeff bezos also blocked his paper's editorial board from endorsing kamala harris. when asked what he makes of trump's demonization of the press. bezos turned to flattery. >> what about the idea that he thinks that the press is the enemy? >> well, i think he, i'm going to try to talk him out of that idea. i don't think the press is the enmy. i don't think. you have probably grown in the last eight years, he has too. >> reporter: joining me now is michelle norris who left the postin the wake of bezos decision to pull the postendorsement of kamala harris and she's now, we're happy, happy, happy about it a

senior contributing editor here at msnbc. it's great to see you. thank you for coming on to this program on a friday night. >> so good to be with you alex. >> there's no one i want to talk to more about all of this than you. in this same deal and conference where bezos made his comments about trump growing up. he said trump is calmer and has grown in the past eight years. the owner of your former paper, i wonder what went thereupon your mind when you heard those comments. >> people should really listen to the full interview. it's very interesting. listen jeff bezos owns the paper. it's his prerogative to do what he wants at the paper. when he was talking about trying to convince donald trump that the press is not the enemy. that's a steep hill to climb with this president. because he entered into politics on a hot dust of grievance. and much of that was directed at the media. you know, the phrase fake news has entered our lexicon because

of him. and we should be clear it's not that he sees everyone in the media as his enemy. he has appointed several people from fox news to be part of this cabinet and his in coming administration. what he does not like is scrutiny. what he does not like is a press core that's willing to ask tough questions. what he does not like is a press core that will put his policies and his leadership under a microscope. and, i flattery will not work in trying to change his mind. we've seen that for the last eight years. i applaud his optimism but i don't think it's going to help. >> that may relate or not to his business interest in the next trump administration. i do have to ask about the l.a. times. because if bezos is trying to appeal to trump's favor is one

thing. dr. patrick chong installing an ai sort of manipulation to i guess cement the notion that the news is bias and in some way fake, seems deeply undiplomatic that the press is not truthful. what do you think about the mechanism set to take on the times in january. >> we've entered the, realm of strange now. if you're using ai. that means you don't trust your journalists. if you have to bring an algorithmic technology to determine whether there's bias in the newsroom. that means you don't trust your journalists or you don't trust your editors or the editorial process. there's several things that are not answered. is this going to apply to, stories that are in the opinion page or in the paper over all.

because there is a distinct difference and for people watching understand that. you should expect to see opinions in the opinion section. but in the general section of the paper you expect to see fair and unbalanced coverage. if you're using, when he explained it he said that people could press a button so they could see the story written from the opposite point of view. well that suggests that, for stories that there's only two points of view. and life is often much more complicated than that. so when beat reporters and the body of their coverage what they try to do is present all sides of the story. and there's often not just two sides. there are often many nuances. and you know, there's also a baseline issue alex with ai itself. we understand that ai learns from us. and ai often absorbs our

biases. even when they're deeply embedded. when there's an implicit cognition where they don't think where the bias comes in. it creeps in. there's voice recognition technology. that other forms of ai that are being used it's often encrypt. there's another story in the news right now with the man that was assassinated in new york city. you know united health care. his company was under investigation because they were using an ai system to measure medical claims. and that system had a 90% failure rate. and when it comes to bias, ai is not, it's not immune from bias itself. so you know there's a larger issue here with trust in the media. and the owners having trust in the people that they hire. and trying to earn trust from their consumer base. and it's difficult when, they themselves have introduced a new form, a new place for those consumers to see bias because

of their business interest. and that's one of the issues we have too face if we're talking about trust in the media. >> technology somehow entering this world purposefully made money by the right wing in the media. what can go wrong? there's no better person than try to navigate it than with you michelle norris. please come back often. i love seeing your face. >> thank you. >> take care. thank you for your time. when we come back, elon musk may be looking to change the very experienceover time in america. oh yes. i'll explain, next. ♪ who knows what tomorrow ♪ ♪ will bring ♪ [dog barking]

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it was described as the second dark age. the headline in the new york times was new darkness. for decades the united states had been on a love-hate relationship with the changing of the clocks. that is springing forward with daylight saving and falling back into standard time. congress had just voted to making springing forward the default time in order to save energy during the fuel crisis

of the 1970s. but it didn't last long. americans did not like being on permanent daylight saving time. frustrations mounted following reports of children being struck and killed by cars as they walked to school in the dark. congress quickly reversed the change and americans went back to springing forward and falling back. but now, the soon to be heads of trump's new department of efficiency are signaling that they will very much like to make day life saving permanent. while most of their plans like cutting $2 trillion from the federal budget most of that is causing consternation, this thing they want to do might actually be popular. according to a ugov poll, 62% of americans want to stop changing their clocks and 50% want daylight savings to be the standard. joining me now is dan diamond, national health reporter for the washington post. dan, thank you for getting into a deep and hot debate in our newsroom here. and i'm sure in households

across the country. first of all, what's the political reality of changing these cloth clocks. like not every state would be affected in the same way if we switched to either permanent daylight savings or standard time, is that right. >> there's 48 states that currently follow daylight times. two have opted out, highway highway and most of arizona. this seeps like it would be a simple fix. you sited the polling that 2/3 of americans hate the clock changing. the challenges is there's a consensus on what they want next. maybe half of americans want permanent daylight savings time. the other want permanent standard time. that's the time i'm in right now here in washington, d.c. so it is not an easy path forward. i was on capitol hill this week talking to colon. they looked at this two years ago he said i couldn't get to a deal and i'm sure elon musk and

ramaswamy could. >> michigan is a key swing state. i'm sure you don't want michiganders to be upset at their lives thanks to this policy. what is better for us in terms of our rhythms or season effective disorder. daylight saving time or standard time which we are on right now. >> we're not supposed to take opinions. but i thought a lot about it. this topic is a passion for me. i think there's a reason for the system we have. if you're trying to strike a balance across the country you don't want people in michigan and indiana waking up and seeing the sun not rise until after 9:00 a.m. but you also want to give that extra hour especially to folks on the coast, maybe we can move back the change not from sunday morning as it is now. but move it back to saturday morning and give people more time. maybe over a 3 day weekend to get used to the changes that

happen. it does seem that standard time is much healthier. it's more attune with our acadian rhythm but there's truth for why standard time brings happiness. >> perhaps those in the interior of the country want somebody else. like everything else, there seems to be a red state, blue state split on daylight savings time. >> thank you for keeping me after the daylight hours, alex. good to see you. >> we will be right back.

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before we go, i want to give you something to look forward to this weekend. this is the before, circa 2019, when the roof and spire of the iconic notre dame cathedral in paris were destroyed in a massive fire pit at 5 1/2 years later, repairs are finished and the cathedral will reopen to the public this sunday. it is a sign that catastrophes do not always last forever and what is broken can also be fixed. and also that paris makes everything better. now it is time for the last word with my friend jonathan capehart in for lauren, good evening, my friend. >> [ laughter ] good evening, alex. you know, i went to paris for the first time in like 30 years