ig sin of everybody in that church was that they weren't cynical enough? that's right. they were trusting, and they wanted to follow their leaders. josh mankiewicz: there are warnings in scripture about the dangers of following false prophets. annette and craig anderson learned that the hard way. they've since found another church, and they still have a place for god in their lives. maybe the most amazing thing out of all this to me is that the two of you didn't lose your faith. right on. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching.

good morning, and welcome to this saturday edition of morning joe weekend. let's get right to some of the conversations you might have missed. >> we had george packer on talking about how the democrats need to re-examine what they are doing. all you have to do is look along the texas/mexico border and how that has gone republican. how do you think we should balance this? as i've said before, less than a percentage point difference with wisconsin, about 1.5 percentage points in michigan and you know how close pennsylvania was. and even in arizona. a pretty progressive guy, the

fourth time in a row that democrats have won arizona in a state where they never like democrats. and nevada as well comes through for democrats. how do you balance this? it is a mixed bag and you basically have a tie in the house of representatives and close to a tie in the senate. how much handling should democrats really be doing right now? >> look, some of the message, yes, instead of using these acronyms to describe what you are talking about, just say the thing, i go back to andy beshear in kentucky who won re- election as governor, talking about bidenomics but never talked about the term. he talked about the manufacturing happening in his state, what he was doing but never put a label on it, just said what it was. for a lot of democrats across the country and frankly

democrats particularly in washington. democrats love an acronym, love to put a name on something and put a bow on it but people just want you to talk to them about what you are doing. because i do believe the policy that the party has, they are resonating. jordan harris, a representative out of pennsylvania said right after the election, he said, look, i think that democratic party at times is a little bit too much starbucks and not enough dunkin' donuts. it's not that they have to do this whole rebrand on things. but go back to talking about the issues, the base is, in some of these places the base did not turn out. black voters in detroit did not come out to vote, what was that

about? >> reverend al came unsaid about 10 days before the election and said they are just not excited in detroit. this is nothing like 2020. and there is a real problem with the level of engagement that was really surprising to us. we heard it from people knocking on doors in pennsylvania. just about everybody we talked to came back saying the same thing, we don't like trump but we will vote for him anyway. what you put that down to? we have said over and over again that in 2020 the race was won by black women in milwaukee, in detroit, in philadelphia, atlanta, and i'm just curious, why is it that there wasn't as much energy, especially among black men for kamala harris and 2024. that is one of the many things

that make a difference. we can look at hispanic voters but if the base had come home she would have won those states and won the election. >> there was a one percentage point difference between how donald trump did with blackman in 2024 then how he did in 2020. i would argue that yes the race was one of the margins but the largest shift was with hispanic voters. if you just described all these things and reverend sharpton was describing what was happening in detroit because he was out there, his organization, they were taking him around the country talking to voters, if he knew that, don't you think other people knew that? the disconnect is what the ground is staying and how people are responding to what the ground is saying. i do believe in the democratic

apparatus when it comes to campaigns, people have to listen to what the people ours saying on the ground and be willing to adjust. you can't just take what happens in one state and apply it at large, you need those data studies and focus groups are more indicative of where people are. at the end of the day, the 2024 election was not an election that voters looked at through the prism of the last hundred five days. they were experiencing everything for the last two or three years. and you have democrats up and down the ticket saying that gdp is up, the fastest recovery of any g7 country. when you have democrats saying the economy is really great but you don't hear that same amount of fervor talking about the

rent policy, maxine waters talks about this all the time. people felt there was a disconnect with their lived reality. what was being elevated and talked about for not just the last 107 days, it was different. their lived reality is very important. you cannot discount that. >> i don't think the harris campaign did that. i think there was so much to enter to in such a small amount of time. from the trump side there were questions of democracy, questions of fascist type tendencies. things being put out there that needed an answer to as well. and i saw an attempt for them to address the exact issues that simone is talking about. but it was in this huge haze of many other issues that had to be addressed at the same time.

trying to do it all at once. >> and i just say, kamala harris could not have done it all. that's why i made the point of 105 days. she came out of the gate with all the things american people said was most important to them at the time. but they did not experience this election in just 105 days. so that democrats that are like, we've got to think about how to throw the playbook all the way out. no, baby, you've got to go back to the basics. >> the thing is, you know, save james carville's name and twitter explodes but it comes back to, it's the economy, stupid. you were out on the campaign trail throughout most of the year reporting from swing states across america. we would talk about the things

that used to be judged in presidential races. we talked about job numbers being so good. talked about all the positive things that my professor in the one economics class said. there is an interview of a hispanic and he said he was angry because he could not vote for bernie sanders. this year he voted for donald trump because of the price of groceries, gas and everything. it didn't really matter if inflation dropped 2%. he is looking at the cumulative impact over the past four years and things were just not as good for him economically today as they were four years ago because of inflation.

>> that connects to what i was righting about -- writing about about the dissonance people feel about giving up this idea about the party norms in democracy. people found out that this is a very low trust when it comes to politicians country. they might like their governor or congressman but the assumption that most politicians are corrupt has been good for donald trump and people have not connected it. the idea that donald trump was going to be set by legal problems because he was such a bold and fearless actor was helpful for him. there were a lot of voters i talked to that found this, no matter what was thrown at him, the fact that he looked like he was always trying to act and

being estimate was powerful. that is one, while they are criticizing, with biden, some of them are saying that this is the sort of thing donald trump got away with and bill clinton got away with when he was able to perform well in a midterm. voters were more concerned with those, not just the economic problems they had but more interested in will this president be strong, act quickly and shake off the doubters and the haters and lawyers. this is the context for the biden pardon. if they were to say we care more about a president that goes through the process, then they would have won. so it looks like the country cares more about the appearance of results or action than it

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have much have you paid people to pull out customers who are in line with a bag that is two centimeters too big? >> we recognize this is a hard job and therefore we incentivize them to do that. it is $10 per bag. >> wow. you do appreciate that flying on your airlines is a disaster, don't you? i'm slightly amazed by the attitudes of all of you here. flying on your airlines is a terrible experience. i say this as a father of three young children. nobody enjoys flying your airlines. >> addressing the ceos of major airlines on capitol hill heard

with commercial air travel surpassing precode levels the biden administration is lying the groundwork to further protect stranded passengers after the airline has canceled or significantly delayed flights. they would have to pay passengers at least $200 in cash compensation, rebook their next flight at no additional cost, cover meals, overnight lodging and transportation expenses resulting in the delay or cancellation. bringing in pete buttigieg with more on this. these seem to most travelers like common sense solutions to problem that plagues so many of us. you get canceled, you don't know where you will go or where you will stay. how close do you believe you are to getting these implemented? >> we have to go through the process, getting a lot of

public input and data. but this launches a process that will lead to more improvements for passengers. there are really two goals, make sure those disruptions are less likely to happen in the first place and make sure you are taken care of when they do. it has been a big part of our push over the last several years as we have been putting pressure on the airlines. cancellation rates have improved substantially, this year it is 1.3%. making sure there are consequences when you let passengers down and when it does happen you make sure they are better taken care of. for the first time we are launching a process where the department would consider cash compensation and other requirements about what the airline has to do in those situations if it is caused by the airline. nobody controls the weather but if the airline gets you stuck there ought to be some sort of regard for the cost in terms of

your time. i will note that these kinds of policies are something you will see widely used around the world but up until now we have not seen in the united states. >> it is not often that i would think to be agreeing with josh hawley on much but i certainly agree with him in that clip that was just shown. commercial air travel in america for the average passenger is a nightmare. what can we do about the fact that when an airline is delaying a flight on comprehensively long, like three hours or whatever, what can we do about getting a cash payment back for the ticket because it it has inflicted pain on our time, family time, but the airlines seems hesitant to say okay, here is a refund. >> that is something we have

enacted through our automatic refund rule. that is taking effect this year and will make a big difference. the idea is if an airline owes you for a flight that is canceled or delayed past a certain amount, a three-hour threshold for domestic flights and longer for international flights, you should not have to fight or send an email or negotiate to get your money back, it should just come to you. we were finally able to do that. what we are now announcing is that you will get some kind of compensation for your time. there are a lot of places around the world where you would get some level of cash and the concept in this proposal will start at a $200 cash payment to you in addition to anything else you are entitled to if you are stuck because of the airline. also, requirements about rebooking. they need to put you on the next available seat and if they

don't have one in a certain amount of time they have to be ready to put you on a seat with another airline. covering hotels and ground transportation. there has never been a rule set, which means airlines could change that. this would set a new framework for that. this is all designed to help address that feeling as passengers that we are not being well taken care of. i can tell you not just as a policymaker or agency had but just as a frequent flyer. in a few minutes i will be hopping on a flight at o'hare. i know it can be frustrating and i know we can get results through enforcement, transparency and better regulation. >> you are laying the groundwork but the biden administration is in its final days. you spoken to donald trump

selection on taking your job if he were to be confirmed, does the incoming administration seem on board with what you are putting out there? >> we will have to see what steps they take. they have said a lot of things and gone through a lot of motions that are populist. i think that will be tested in many ways. one important test will be to see if the next administration follows through on what we have initiated and maintains the rules we have created and enforcement practices we've created to hold airlines accountable. i have seen several ceos that express hopes that the next administration will be less passenger friendly and more corporate friendly than we are. as that clip showed, there is actually bipartisan interest and desire to continue advancing these protections.

coming up next, governor roy cooper joins the conversation as republicans in his state look to strip powers away from the incoming democratic governor. we will be right back after a quick break. quick break. that one! and look forward, to a more confident future. that is one dynamic duo. voya, well planned, well invested, well protected. have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further. voya, well planned, proudly made in tennessee, a safe step walk-in tub is the best in it's class. the ultra-low easy step helps keep you safe from having to climb over those high walled tubs, allowing you to age gracefully in the home you love. and now, back by popular demand, for a limited time, when you purchase your brand-new safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package!

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the motion before the body is that senate bill 382 become law and not withstand any objections of the governor. >> this is voter suppression. >> this is disruptive and out of order to the legislative process. >> she is being removed. clear the gallery. just clear the gallery. everybody's got to go. clear the gallery. this is not to be tolerated. >> mr. president, you can't

clear the whole gallery, a lot of people are being respectful and are here to see what is happening. this is the people's house. you should not clear the whole gallery, it is undemocratic. >> a bit of chaos in north carolina in the state senate yesterday as protests erupted. you heard one voice and maybe a few others after the republican controlled body devoted to override a veto from governor roy cooper. the bill in question includes some relief for those impacted by hurricane helene but mainly takes power away from the next governor who is also a democrat. critics are calling it a blatant power grab by republicans in the state. and north carolina's democratic governor joins us now. thank you for coming on the show. can you explain this bill and what's going on here and how

power would be taken away from the incoming governor? >> i understand why the people in the gallery are met. the people of north carolina are mad. we just experienced the most devastating and deadly storm that north carolina has ever had. we are making progress we have opened more than 900 roads, fixed schools, water systems and we are all working to get the billions of dollars it will take to recover. i lead a western delegation to washington and met with the president in the oval office and went to capitol hill. it was now time for our state legislators to step up and provide that relief that is so desperately needed. they did not do it. in fact they call this a disaster relief bill but all it did was move money from one fund to another and then they actually took money away from

western north carolina by removing a power of the governor that i just used to enhance unemployment benefits for employees who had lost their jobs as a result of this storm. they used disaster relief, which they didn't do, as a fig leaf to grab power. it is important to note that yes, we lost at the top of the ticket like other swing states but in north carolina we elected a democratic governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general, secretary of state, superintendent of public schools, the only supreme court justice, we won the only swing congressional seat left after the partisan gerrymandering. we won that and also broke the supermajority in the state legislature. but what do they do as a lame

duck gerrymandering legislature? they passed the sham of a bill that takes a -- away power of officials that the people of north carolina just elected, moved to themselves and ignore the people of western north carolina. a lot of western legislators are mad at this. three of them did not vote on this bill. if i was a western legislator i would be furious that they did not do anything of substance to help western north carolina and used this legislation as a mask. they got the media to talk about this bill, but it really doesn't. it moves money around and it ends up hurting western north carolina. a lot of frustration right now but we still got an opportunity on december 11 to try to uphold this veto even though we are facing a super majority. there are a number of western

delegation republicans that understand what this legislation does to the people they represent. >> the incoming governor and attorney general kind of followed your path, josh stein won by an overwhelming margin in the governor's race but this bill would take some of his power away. can you explain a little more specifically and practically how it does that. how it takes power away from democratic leadership and why it is so outrageous to you and other people? >> i think the issue is the state board of elections. for decades democratic and republican governors our system has worked well and has conducted fair and secure elections. the governor appoints a majority of his or her party to serve on the board of

elections. from day one they've been trying to change this and get the power to themselves. we were able to stop it through my veto, through the courts and even by the people of north carolina in an overwhelming vote when they try to change the constitution. they are trying to change it again, making sure republicans can run elections in north carolina when they have been run fairly in a bipartisan way by governors for decades. another example is taking the highway patrol, which is an important law enforcement agency, away from the governor's cabinet decision, making it independent and they themselves the legislature are appointing the commander of the highway patrol instead of the governor. these are the kinds of things they have done over the years using their super majority status, which they have gained by using the most

technologically diabolical partisan gerrymandering in the history of the country. north carolina is the worst, we are down three members of congress simply because of their gerrymandering when we had court order. districts in north carolina it was 7-7 and this time it is 10- 4 and we barely held onto that fourth seat that was a swing seat. this is the heart of the problem and one of the reasons congress is so dysfunctional is the gerrymandering districts that are so red and so blue, so few purple districts with people having incentive to find compromise and find ways forward. >> you are obviously an outgoing governor in this might be your final battle in the governor's chair but there has also been a lot of speculation about what comes next for you.

thom tillis is up for election in 2026 and your name has been discussed as a potential nominee. where is your head at in regards to that race? >> everything is on the table for me in the future. i will run through the tape. western north carolina has taken up most of my time and priority. there are a lot of issues at the end of the term that they will have to deal with so i will take some time to decide where i will have my best use. i have enjoyed public service and we have accomplished a lot in north carolina with medicaid expansion and clean energy. we are moving forward in an economy where we've got better paying jobs for people. i'm excited about that but i'm not going to make any decisions soon. obviously everything is on the table for me. >> governor roy cooper of north

carolina, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. just ahead, an important and timely reminder of how donald trump ripped thousands of children from their parents at the southern border. we take a look at a new documentary based on a book about family separations during trump's first term and how they could happen again. we will be right back. ht back. more people on eylea hd had no fluid in the retina compared to those on eylea at 4 months. eylea hd is the only wet amd therapy that helped 8 out of 10 people go up to 4 months between injections after 3 initial monthly treatments. if you have an eye infection, eye pain or redness, or allergies to eylea hd, don't use. eye injections like eylea hd may cause eye infection, separation of the retina, or rare but severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye. an increase in eye pressure has been seen.

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our field staff started to notice very young kids, tender age, anyone below 5, that is kind of unusual, right? most often when you have a kid that young they are traveling with a parent. jim delacruz was the supervisor of all the federal field staff. he had his team keep a spreadsheet. it was growing and growing with the number of kids. >> one of the issues i raised to scott loyd is that we had run out of beds for babies. we were seeing so many babies but the babies cannot tell you they are separated. >> that is the new documentary based on the new york times

best-selling book by jacob soboroff. the documentary directed by an oscar winner examines the separation policy at the southern border and the ongoing human rights crisis. jacob joins us now. he is an executive producer on the film that makes its broadcast premiere this saturday at 9:00 p.m. eastern. good to see you. this is a story you've been on for years reporting for us at nbc and writing your book and now the film as well. i think we've got so much heat from that issue that it is worth going back to remind people what the policy exactly is. >> we talked a little bit about this before the election. the film came out in october but it has never been more relevant than it is today.

in the summer of 2018, i don't think any of us will forget what it's like when the trump administration deliberately ripped apart 5500 children from their parents for no other reason than to harm them. and here we are on the verge of mass deportation. it is family separation at another name, on a massive scale in the interior of their country in a way that we've never seen before. so what a blessing it is to not only start this report but to get to continue it with the director who has trained his lens on some of the biggest in american history. >> to remind people, what was the goal of family separation? we know what it did, but how did they defend it? >> as they say in the film,

separations were the goal and harm was the purpose. i say that objectively as a journalist. listen to the people in the film. prosecutions were a mechanism. this is about following the law some would say, but that is not what it was about. the point was to harm. >> you just hinted at why this is so important. not just because it is a historical document but perhaps it were shadows what is coming. some would say it is just a threat and he won't follow through. but he did follow through in 2018. >> tom homan, the incoming border czar. you see emails presented in a way that is extraordinary. it documents in this forensic

way, it is a forensic examination just like he did of vietnam, of iraqis, and even steve bannon. and you look at how it all came together and it is all laid out in a way that only errol morris can. and by the way, with the use of emails and documentary officials and also the narrative, a story of a mother and a son that is put together by the production designer, it is really a beautiful film he has put together. >> as you reflect on the making of the film and the origin of your work here, cruelty is the point, it will continue to be the point, apparently, going

forward. how do you rationalize the idea and fact that so many people voted for donald trump to put him back in office knowing things like this. >> tom homan and stephen miller and all that same cast of characters are going back in there. my personal belief is, remember, this is an inspiring story because everyone around the world rose up and stop this from happening. the pope spoke out in the summer of 2018 and said, this is not okay. we are morally opposed to ripping children from their parents on purpose. i am all for the conventions. i saw them holding up those mass deportation science but might personal belief is, even though people support mass deportation, i don't think they

fully comprehend what it is. i do think people are tired and have resorted to going back to talking about immigrants as points on a chart or bar graph or political football. but when they see what happens under this policy they will be reminded of what happened in the summer of 2018. >> our next guest directed one of the biggest movies in the world right now. wickett has been breaking records at the box office and we will talk to the filmmaker. morning joe is back in a moment.

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who are you and why do you seek me? >> say something. >> what am i supposed to say?

>> say something, say something. >> a man. >> i did not know it was you. >> a clip from the blockbuster hit wicked, it is the highest grossing broadway adaptation of all-time, domestically surpassing $260 million that the u.s. box office since its release on november 22nd. joining is now is the film's director, jon m. chu, congratulations. is there a wicked part 2 already underway? >> we shot them at the same time. we are editing it now.

>> my daughter and i are going to have a wicked party. >> talk about how, this is a long time coming. for you it has been an idea decades in the making. >> i saw wicked before it was on broadway when it was in san francisco. i mom took me and i remember being blown away. i was like, this feels more cinematic than any film i've ever seen. this was 20 years ago. >> congratulations on the filter's success. walk us through, what is a production of that size and scope like and what challenges did you have to overcome? >> when tackling the land of oz that has been seen in the

wizard of oz and all these different things embedded in our culture, we built emerald city, a full on city. the 9 million tulips we planted and all the cast, thousands of people and then you get cynthia revo, ariana grande and the whole thing just comes together. physical effects, visual effects and music. stephen schwartz, brilliant songwriter who wrote all of these. it was a lot. i am still tired. >> you directed one of my favorite movies, crazy, rich asians. it's moving, exciting and visually very beautiful. very different than wicked. talk to us about how that works. >> that was something i was very scared to make, talking

about my own cultural identity crisis is something i've avoided in all my other movies before. i don't want to be seen as an asian american director, i just wanted to be a director. but because of the reaction and people out their families and grandparents it really changed my view of what cinema can do. it is the only medium in the world the matter what reviewers say, when the audience shows up, it changes everything. it changed the way i look at movies in general. >> back to wicked, one of the things you did was have them sing live. tell us why you decided to do that. what that choice brought to the film. >> you've got the two greatest singers of our generation in this movie. but that was not the plan from

the beginning. but the reality is when you are mixing true acting moments and music you really want that to integrate as closely as possible. it is part of the expression and an extended part of the dialogue. these women were able to weave in and out so expertly. so we just kept doing that. we were live every day and they would hear it and we got to hear it and go through all our sets all day long. we saw people crying, people walking to their cars singing a song. >> talk about the new lens that viewers who may have seen this musical so many times on broadway get to see this through, specifically, obviously when you are in

theater the emotions have to be more grant and you have to make sure everybody sees everything. here, with the lenses, you said you can get two inches from a character's face and there is something about this film that you can never get on broadway. >> that is the great thing about cinema. is that, one, you walk into a theater and you are with strangers and we get to take you to the best seats in the house. it is not just whatever ticket you can afford. and we get to do it all around the world. the best thing is things like flying and defying gravity and get there with her while she tries to express it with her voice and be right there with her when she says, something has changed within me, something is not the same.

maybe she is conflicted about that idea, she doesn't want to change but she has to. when we are all sort of feeling that uncomfortable feeling of what's next. cinema can do that. >> don't go anywhere. we have a second hour of morning joe weekend for you right after the break. k. with. check. and many were in remission... ...even at nearly 2 years. and rinvoq... ...helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining. check. rapid symptom relief. lasting remission. and visibly reduced damage. check. rinvoq can lower ability to fight infections. before treatment, test for tb and do bloodwork. serious infections, blood clots, some fatal;... ...cancers, including lymphoma and skin;... ...serious allergic reactions; gi tears; death;... ...heart attack; and stroke occurred. cv event risk increases in age 50 plus... ...with a heart disease risk factor.

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welcome back to a second

hour of morning joe weekend. let's get to some more conversations we had this week that we did not want you to miss. >> jen, i will start with you. you've watched nominees get paraded around capitol hill and difficult confirmation hearings, let's focus on pete hegseth for the moment, and some of what we have heard yesterday. is that republican senators going through the motion, saying, i'm open to the possibility or others saying out right, i am supportive of his nomination. or is it reaction to all the other reporting that donald trump has moved on or is their renewed movement to keep him in the game? >> i think there is what is happening publicly and privately. privately is what really tells you the whole story with the nominations. it used to be many years ago

that senators would come out and say they would or would not vote for that person. but now senators are concerned about being a target of trump. it is quiet defiance. we saw it with matt gaetz and now we are seeing it with pete hegseth. a senator from connecticut said there are 5 to 10 republicans who he thinks would oppose hegseth. what i expect is going to happen is that this will be quietly a nomination that is killed over the next couple of days. meaning people on the hill, senators will convey to the trump team that he simply does not have the votes and then trump has to decide what to do from there. we are already seeing names floating out there, which is coming from somewhere in the trump orbit.

these public comments are senators more trying not to be the target. all of the conversations are happening behind the scenes. and i suspect some of them may want the job, too. >> that is an important point. as we saw in garrett speas there, she met with pete hegseth and i think you are right, people don't want to be the ones coming out, publicly crossing donald trump. in the latest piece in the new yorker you are writing about all the controversy surrounding trump's picks, notably kash patel. susan writes, in just the past few days the government collapsed, and south korea's president briefly declared martial law. but in washington donald trump's political chaos is a world unto itself. he revealed his perhaps most dangerous decision yet, a plan

to install kash patel, and ostentation's trump loyalist who has explicitly promised to oust the director of the fbi. this looks more clear with each trump appointment. far more than anything overseas will be the order of the day in trump 2.0. i will let you expound a little more on your piece. whether it is kash patel or pete hegseth or someone slightly more palatable, it seems you are right that donald trump, the grievance and everything he talked about on the campaign trail, the retribution will be carried out by whoever sits in those jobs. >> we are focusing understandably on the controversial background and unvetted nature of some of these appointees. pete hegseth being one example.

it is understandable that investigative reporters are doing the hard work that the trump campaign itself did not do in figuring out just exactly who he is putting up for these jobs. the secretary of defense is literally in the line of nuclear command and control. this is a very serious position. it is not a distraction to focus on the more serious issues but what are these controversies telling us about president trump in a second term? you see an agenda of revenge and retribution, almost a redefinition of america first. it is not just a policy statement but an idea of targeting enemies from within. trump was very clear about that. there was a really striking comment that did not get as much attention where he basically said, we have two kinds of enemies, russia and china and then we have the

enemy within and that is the more dangerous one. when you look at kash patel at the fbi or pete hegseth, a lot of what he has written and talked about in recent years, it is not about china. he is targeting america's own generals he considers to be too focused on diversity and not focused enough on what he wants them to focus on. he is talking about internal threats from the pentagon and not the pentagon's job for her -- for keeping america safe. i agree with jan's assessment, these senators don't want to be the ones to challenge trump publicly on any one of these nominations and just hope somehow that the process and the math gives them the ability not to have to make an uncomfortable public vote. >> the stakes couldn't be higher. but pete hegseth is taking up

all the attention, allowing some of the other controversial pics to kind of go quietly, at least for the moment and that allows him to be normalized and quietly build support. kash patel, many feel he is deeply unqualified and problematic. but senators can only say no so many times. >> maybe, but here is the thing, it doesn't count against them necessarily because they are not saying it publicly. we will see how many more happen, quiet conversations among republican members saying that we cannot have this person in this job. the secretary of defense role, secretary austin regularly has meetings where he is determining where to move forces and troops around the world and where to move resources. he sits at the table in

international events and meetings and negotiates with his counterparts and says, we can't give you those planes or military equipment or you need to step back and be more restrained with your military action. can pete hegseth do it? they are legitimately asking that question. i don't know that he is long for the last in this nomination, but i think the question is who is next in terms of quiet defiance. is it kash patel, tulsi gabbard? and these hearings will not start until january. the next two weeks can be quite interesting. if you are tulsi gabbard or kash patel, you are delighted right now that all of the focus is on pete hegseth. but i do feel like this could work for a couple of additional nominees. there is discomfort on a bipartisan level.

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welcome back to morning joe weekend. let's pick up with a conversation we were having before the break. >> it really has been next level in terms of how ridiculous the process can get. there are reports that pete hegseth's mother was calling senators to lobby on his behalf. can you inc. of any other position where the candidate -- candidates mother has called to rally the troops for her son? >> i also felt, i don't know if you felt this, too, but watching her on the fox news interview, she looked so uncomfortable to be there. maybe it's because she is not used to being on television. the whole thing feels incredibly awkward. we have not seen this kind of thing before. my question would be, at what point does donald trump feel he

needs to crack the whip and get republican senators in line and show that he is the boss of the party again? you now had matt gaetz going of his own accord, it is possible pete hegseth does not make it. at what point does he say that he has to show that he is reasserting control over republican senators. so far they seem to be able to push back against him. i've heard from some who were thinking they may not be around to run again, that they will continue to exercise that role of pushing back against some of these republican senators. but i would not be surprised if at some point donald trump loses his patience. >> i think we saw a glimmer of that when the dea choices stepped aside and donald trump put out a statement saying, he

didn't step aside, i told him to step aside. on yesterday's show we spoke with jonathan martin about his new reporting about the biden white house discussing preemptive pardons of those who might be the focus of potential revenge against trump. adding that democrats on capitol hill have also been pressing mr. president to do what he can. jim clyburn of south carolina, one of the president's closest allies who urge the white house to consider preemptive pardons and likewise recommended that the president pardon his son. telling the paper, i think there are a lot of people coming into this next administration who are telling us who they are. i saw kash patel tell us who he is going after. but as officials weigh the matter they are concerned that

such a move would fuel the impression that the recipients actually had done something wrong. it goes on, at least some of those who would be obvious candidates for such pardons have said privately that they would not want one because of such an implication. susan glasser, this is an odd one here, which is issuing blanket pardons to people who have not committed crimes but of whom you are concerned that kash patel or the justice department or fbi would go after, what is your take on this? it sounds like it is picking up some traction but it also sounds like these people are saying, i don't want the perception of admission of doing something wrong. >> i have run into a couple of people on that kash patel enemies list that is the appendix of 60 different names of what he calls deep state

executive branch people that he put in his last book, which is entitled government gangsters and is an extraordinary document to exist for a prospective head of the fbi. i think the threat to these folks and potentially embers of the press is very real. there are numerous ways in which if you are determined you can use the tools of the government. you could really go after people. you could impute their name, there are numerous ways. i think the threat is real. but a couple of people on this list were very adamant, i've done nothing wrong and i don't want or need a pardon. i have talked to people and they are not leaving the country, they don't think they've done anything wrong and they think they need to stand

and fight if that is what it comes to. i don't know if the biden administration will follow through on this or not. it may be a way of floating the idea out there to see what the reaction would be from the people who are on this list. if they don't want the pardon and my guess is they will not have an embarrassing public comment of not accepting it. >> give us your best sense as to what you think the debate is like within the west wing right now. the blanket pardons has revocations for the individuals on the list but also the democracy going forward it would be a pretty remarkable and unprecedented step. >> joe biden is an institutionalist, somebody who respects the rule of law and the rule that the pardon process, i understand we have the hunter biden pardon this week which we can dive into if you want, i think the debate is

probably a discussion around that. the precedent that it is setting. there are people who came out publicly, adam schiff said that he does not want a pardon. if you are still a person who wants a future in public life, you may not want a pardon. i don't know what anthony fauci is thinking. the precedent sets whether this is something that a president should do and maybe the president has discomfort with it. i don't think it is something he would naturally be comfortable with. it may be that they want to see what the reaction is but it means they are clearly discussing it. there is a lot of pressure out there to play by a set of rules that is more aggressive than the rules then this white house and the democrats have been playing by. i mean that in the political sense and how aggressively they

approach things in congress. this is perhaps a reflection of that. coming up, the washington post's david ignatius has new insight into the man that donald trump wants to be the new fbi director. we are back after a short break. t break.

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let's go! take charge of your treatment. if you can't lay your hand flat, visit findahandspecialist.com to get started. donald trump's pick of kash patel to potentially leave the fbi is bringing increased attention to kash patel's extreme views and his so-called enemies list. in his 2023 book, government gangsters, he has an entire appendix listing what he calls members of the executive branch deep state. the list, which contains 60 names including democrats, biden administration officials and even some trump appointees. among them, bill barr, rod

rosenstein, patsy pallone and special counsel robert hur. he also calls for firing the top ranks, prosecuting leakers and replacing the national security workforce with people who don't undermine the president's agenda. yesterday on capitol hill were asked about the selections from kash patel. >> i don't know him but i have read some of his comments and that is why this is to a benefit. i have a big fbi presence in my state where we do all of the background checks and it is an important part of the fbi's mission. >> if you have the power of that office as the fbi director and you are using it to go after political enemies or the

press or people you regard as adversaries, that is worse than incompetence, it is abuse of power. >> we are talking right now about the potential replacement of christopher wray. someone donald trump appointed in 2017 and has bipartisan support with many senators on the democratic and republican side. he is supposed to have a 10 year term that started in 2017. but there has been the signal from donald trump that he will fire him. and he will replace him, he wants to replace him with someone who has an enemy list and was selling boots a couple of years ago. but has an enemy list and has

written out the people he wants to go after. a lot of republicans and democrats. a guy who was promised that he will go f2 -- after journalists and arrest them for talking about the election conspiracy theory. and also saying he will shut down the fbi. he will clear it all out. this is, man, if it is not the most radical pick it is one of the most radical picks. again, if this is something the republican party endorses in 2024-2025 than it will actually be a republican party in the senate that has reached a new low. >> back to christopher wray, the reason they get 10 year terms is because it is supposed to be insulated from politics. it spans at least two

presidencies. donald trump appointed him in 2017 and he is supposed to go until 2027. and kash patel is a guy who is the pure distillation of maga energy. he is a loyalist until the end, his entire being and public persona has been run in the last decade or so in support of donald trump and perpetuating conspiracy theories. the job of the fbi director is deadly serious because their work is deadly serious and should not be used as an appointment of a loyalist and friend. but that is what donald trump has chosen. open question is whether the senate goes along with it. for people that don't know him, you detail how he rose from being an obscure hill staffer

to key operative in trumps battle. what more should people know about kash patel? >> the main thing is that he is the most loyal and extreme in his loyalty member of trump's entourage that i have encountered. when he was sent to the pentagon as chief of staff under chris miller in a very brief period at the end of 2020, serving undersecretary miller, he came with a very specific and focused agenda. this is what president trump wants me to do. he was not there to run the pentagon in the usual way but he was there to conduct specific political goals. trump wanted troops removed from various battlefield around the world, kash patel tried his

best and in most cases failed to get those troops out of the way. he wanted to install a trump loyalist in a key position of the national security agency, one of our most sensitive facilities. he talked with the cia about reducing the pentagon support for cia operations, a whole string of things. he made clear to the people that he was working with that he was not there to do the normal job of chief of staff but to do the president's bidding. and the fbi director has extraordinary powers to conduct surveillance on american citizens. and those powers to listen in to phone calls and read mail so to speak would be directed by somebody who has shown that he has a very political agenda. as you said, in his book he had an enemies list.

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let's turn back to washington, the final task force hearing on the attempted assassinations against donald trump devolved into a yelling match. the confrontation was

sparked after fallon shifted his line of questioning from secret service failures in butler, pennsylvania to the appearance at the 911 ground zero remembrance service a couple months later. he accused rowe of attending the event to further his career while rowe accused fallon of trying to politicize the terrorist attack commemoration. >> sir, you are out of line? you are out of line. >> i am an elected member of congress. >> i am a public servant who has served this nation. do not criticize it. >> i am asking serious questions. were you the special agent in

charge? >> i was running the united states secret service. >> i was paying respect to a fallen member of this agency. you are out of line, congressman. >> you put those agents out of position. >> mr. fallon, your time has expired. >> good lord. what is going on there, what is the context? obviously there was a photograph of mr. rowe at the 9/11 remembrance, and the congressman suggesting he was out of position. there is a photograph. what is going on? >> i was thinking to myself, this is such as substantive

congressional hearing. until that moment. the exchange began with pat fallon asking mr. rowe why the as second-in-command if he was aware of some of the heightened threats against donald trump, why he was not in butler, pennsylvania in terms of deploying counter surveillance units and counter assault units to try to ultimately prevent the assassination attempt on donald trump. basically insinuating that he was in a position to try to have the knowledge to prevent something like that and from there it evolved into fallon accusing rowe for being there for his professional gain.

and rowe immediately refuted these allegations and noted his personal connection to 9/11 . he was there sifting through the ashes in the aftermath after a secret service agent died. the secret service also put out a statement after the fact, after the hearing saying that those claims that fallon was making that rowe misplaced and pushed out special agents who were out of place to protect the president and vice president were false and the security and protective detail at the time was as it should have been. >> so it rowe pointed out that he was at the aftermath of ground zero sifting through the ashes and wanted to go there to pay his respects. i think some of those members of congress are used to using those hearings to grandstand and

they are not always used to getting it back as good as they gave it. since you were there, let's talk about the substance of it, what came out of the hearing? this was a five-month investigation by this committee. what did we learn from it and what will be improved because of it? >> rowe went through a number of implementation changes to the agency that they have already made. and further outlined plans looking ahead to 2028 to beef up the protective agency that would be in charge with protecting trump, his family members and other protect these under their watch. he said they will expand the workforce by 1000 special agents and officers by next year. they said they've implemented retention incentives so veteran agents who have been leaving the agency due to issues of culture, morel or just being burnt out, these are people

that work 24/7 around the clock in extremely high stress environments, that those incentives have actually been working in terms of retaining those veteran agents. they are also working with inter-agency to try to leverage some of the new technology developments. there is an autonomous robot that has been trolling the seawolves of mar-a-lago to protect him. and they have also done things like hire a chief wellness officer. someone who can provide support for these agents who are maybe struggling with mental health or other issues related to the grueling nature of the work. donald trump has not made his decision yet for the nomination of someone who will probably be one of the most important people in his administration, charged with overseeing the agency that will detect him day

in and day out as he does face a lot of heightened threats from foreign and domestic actors. rowe has been complementary , he has been complementary of his leadership in the response that they have had to the attempted assassination. up next, the new documentary, facing the falls, tells the story of a disability rights advocate as she takes a 12 day journey through the grand canyon. the subject of the film and one of the film's executive producers will join us next on morning joe weekend. have fun on land. i'll go tell the coast guard. yep. yeah, checking first is smart. so check allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. you're in good hands with allstate. for more than a decade

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these are the steepest steps. >> steady yourself. >> we will cross the grand canyon on horseback for the first three days and then raft

along the colorado river for 150 miles. this is a very rare disease. my body is physically going down while the ambition and drive goes up. >> there is always a risk that people are not going to agree with what you are doing. so often we don't even try something because we are afraid. >> the grand canyon doesn't allow for a set plan. a lot can go wrong. >> i don't want to put somebody's life on risk on my watch. >> that is a look at the extraordinary new documentary entitled facing the falls premiering globally this morning on international day, persons with disabilities. it follows a disability rights advocate that lives with a rare muscle weakening disease as she embarks on a journey to cross the grand canyon. good morning, great to see you.

i am excited to see you, tara. what an extraordinary trip you took to the grand canyon. you were just saying this has been something like 10 years in the making, what gave you such an audacious idea is to make a 12 date trek through the canyon? >> i moved to the united states after living in 11 glorious countries around the world and came to the u.s. and thought, what is more grand than the grand canyon. i said, this is something i don't want to just take a photograph but get into it, but i could not walk unassisted at the time so we had to be creative in how we would make this happen. >> one of the things you did, i took a donkey part of the way down and it terrified me. you said you wanted to learn to ride on a mustang.

tell me about that. >> i knew i would not be able to walk down and the princess that i am i did not want to ride a donkey hurt so i contacted a local therapeutic riding program and ask if they would teach me how to ride in 2014. i trained for this for four years. as i was training we had to constantly adapt, particularly the adaptive equipment for riding the horse because i was deteriorating from head to toe. but we did it with a lot of teamwork as people with disabilities have to do. >> one of the great films about this film is that it is available to everyone on youtube starting today. >> it is available with no barrier, it has audio assisted technology. we wanted anyone and everyone to be able to see this film because she is just extraordinary and certainly an

inspiration to my mom and me and we think and inspiration to everyone. >> i want to show another clip showing you and your team battling those elements across the grand canyon. let's take a look. >> i am absolutely terrified. >> i know you are. do you see the people ahead? >> take a step again. one more. all forward! hold on.

yeah. how do you feel, cara? >> fantastic! >> didn't fall out of the boat. this is eight difficult enough journey with -- for someone who does not have a disability. what gave you the strength to keep going? >> first and foremost it is an adventure film and often you see a white male as the protagonist, we will are not thinking that the protagonist would be a biracial woman with a disability. so there is the advocacy piece that often comes with an adult with a disability or chronic illness. we find i need to prove to ourselves and to the world that we are the same person. some of that performance was a driver, which was a very ablest mind-set. also the team, i had a wonderful crew and expedition team around me that i trusted explicitly to keep us safe.

this project is about hundreds of people who have been involved and they were very much what drove before it. coming up, jim gaffigan joins us to discuss his hilarious new comedy special. morning joe weekend will be right back. (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound)

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are against appetite suppressant, that's cheating, that's cheating. i'm not playing major league baseball. i'm just a fat guy trying to not die. but it's not fair. neither is balding and being born with no pigmentation. i've learned to deal with it. this is an exciting time for me. i'm thin, i'm in my 30s. it is crazy. most of my adult life i heard this constant internal monologue, jim, you've got to stop eating, control your impulses and now i know all i needed was a weekly shot that killed the passion inside of me. >> jim gaffigan, the skinny opens up about his recent weight loss, the complexities of marriage and challenges that come with being a parent to many teenagers. jim joins us live in studio. great to see you.

>> great to be here. so excited to be here on a panel of diverse, a bunch of white guys. we finally made it, guys. because of the hard work of msnbc we now have four white guys sitting here. >> you know what i love, jim, watching you watch yourself do stand up, what are you thinking when you watch? are you critiquing yourself, what are you thinking? >> all i think is, god hates me. is that too dark? it is brutal. that's after, because i listen to my sets, i don't like my voice, i don't like a lot of it. but that's good, right? that is called low self-esteem and that makes someone better. >> it drives you. let's talk about this special, it is called the skinny.

why did you want to put the focus on that and talk about it? it is something that is in our culture and society right now. >> some of it is just, i think people are really weird that they are secretive about it. i am not paid by mounjaro but i should be if they want to send me money. i don't think there is any shame in taking care of yourself. it's not like i'm not a glutton anymore, just instead of eating three boxes of triscuits i eat half a box. >> i would love to see jim in a mounjaro ad. >> may be in a tub. maybe me and my wife is sitting in separate, romantic tubs. >> what triggered this? was it a cardiologist talking to you or you just getting out of the shower? >> i live in enough denial,

thank you for that image, people are eating breakfast. my doctor, she is a great doctor and she brought it up. she was like, you are a fat ass, why don't you think about doing it. i was like, it won't work but i'll try it. but it worked. it is amazing. i can just take a shot and i can feel less emotion, it's a good thing. >> that is awesome. jim, thank you so much. we have been such huge fans of yours for such a long time. my kids and myself, on broadway and to stand up. we are a long way from hot pockets to this, what is interesting to hear is i love how you say your reaction from your friends was not to say anything to you but to go to

your wife and say, is he okay? it was a lot easier for them to believe you were sick and dying instead of having any discipline. >> there was no scenario where i would have any type of willpower. i mean, i worked out in my 20s and 30s but you get it, i've done that, right? it's too much effort. i can't do it anymore. >> let's watch another clip from the special. this is one of his favorite subjects, being a parent to teenagers. >> parenting teenagers has made me a better comedian. no, that's not it. a better comedian, i know that sounds negative but it's almost sad when a kid becomes a teenager because you have a cute 12-year-old and then they become stay in.

you can literally witness that curiosity and wonder transform into body odor and poor judgment. and then you will, the parents are supposed to learn how to communicate with them. my wife emails me articles, how to talk to your teenager. i'm like, delete. >> your kids are 13 and 10, thank you for the warning, but when your kids watch this what do they say when they are such fodder for your comedy? >> i try not to interact with my children. no, i think they get it. i have a 12-year-old, three good morning. it is saturday, dece