in morning, it is saturday, december 7th, i'm charles coleman junior filling in for my friend and colleague, and you are watching velshi on msnbc. we start the sour in france, as we speak, president-elect donald trump is in paris

meeting with french president emmanuel macron. this meeting is taking place at the presidential residence where trump and mccrone both spoke for heading to their closed-door meeting. let's listen in. we have trump, he is coming to europe as the city is preparing to reopen the storied cathedral of notre dame, which was ravaged by fire in 2019. it is donald trump's first trip overseas since winning the election in november. macron formally invited donald trump to attend, president biden was also invited but declined due to scheduling conflicts. first lady jill biden is attending. joining me now, live from paris, nbc news correspondent vaughn hilliard . thanks so much for being with us, can you take us through what we have seen since donald trump has spoken of the public? >> reporter: right, president- elect trump is currently meeting with resident macron. it was president macron who urged the incoming united states resident to come here to paris

for the reopening ceremony of the notre dame cathedral. that ceremony is set to begin just about a few hours from now. so there is still much on the plate of president macron politically. he is said to also have a one- on-one meeting separately with president zelenskyy of ukraine after the conclusion of the meeting with the incoming united states president. you see these two men who have a long, deep history now together. when you saw president-elect trump notably get out of an suv, not the typical, because he is not the sitting president of the united states. this is his first international trip since his election victory last week, and you saw a rather intense handshake, which we've all become accustomed to, between these two men. during his first term, he visited france four different times here. there has been, i think you could fairly and objectively say, that there has been sometimes tense relationships between these two men. at one point president macron

referring to the threats of tariffs from president trump as selfish, but then, on the other hand, you have also seen president macron use flattery as a form of building his relationship with donald trump. when you saw these two men here coexist publicly for the first time in four years, you heard president trump, incoming president trump say that they had a great relationship. and i think that it was clear the role that president macron will play with angela merkel no longer the head of germany, and other notable foreign leaders from president trump's first term no longer in office, it's going to be that continuity between these two men who are going to be paramount to, especially the nato alliance, the u.s. relationships with the eu, but especially at a time in which there are serious questions about the future of ukraine's financial support from the eu and the united states. it is going to be imperative

for president macron, who has remained a staunch defender of resident zelenskyy and ukraine's defense against russian aggression, to have the united states and the incoming trump administration as a committed, continual partner in the defense against russian aggression. >> that was vaughn hilliard in paris, thank you so much again. turning back to the u.s., and the latest regarding the president-elect's top cabinet picks and their chances of being confirmed by the senate . at the top of the list of his most embattled choices is pete hegseth, who trump picked to be the next secretary of defense. there've been multiple reports that recently surfaced around allegations of past professional and personal misconduct. the allegations against him include a sexual assault claim, financial mismanagement of the organizations he once led, and stories about heavy drinking. regarding the sexual assault allegation, hegseth denied the

woman's allegations, saying that the encounter was consensual. he paid an undisclosed amount as part of a settlement with her and he was never charged. nbc news reported this week that according to 10 current and former fox news employees, hegseth's drinking concert his colleagues at the network. this week hegseth was on the hill pushing back against these allegations and trying to drum up support for his nomination by courting republican senators who actually hold the key to his confirmation. he is going to need all the gop support he can get. nbc news also reported this week that the allegations have places chances of being confirmed by the senate in real jeopardy. given the senate having a very, very slim majority of republicans for the next congress, hegseth can only afford to lose three republican votes, assuming that democrats will vote against him. but hegseth vows to keep on fighting, and in an exclusive interview with nbc's kristen welker for meet the press, trump yesterday says he remains confident in his pick. >> pete is doing well now.

i mean, people were a little bit concerned, he's a young guy with a tremendous track record, actually. went to princeton and went to harvard, he was a good student at both, but he loves the military. and i think people are starting to see it. so we will be working on his nomination along with a lot of others. >> since you bring him up, do you still have confidence in pete hegseth? >> yes, i do, i really do. he's a very smart guy. i have known him through fox, but i've known them for a long time. and he is basically a military guy. every time i talk to him, he only wants to talk about the military. he's a military guy. >> have you gotten assurances from senators that he is going to be confirmed? do you think you could make it? >> no, i think you will. i have had a lot of senators calling me up saying he's fantastic. >> you don't drink, yourself. you've talked about how devastating drinking can be. how concerned are you that the person who you picked for this top job at the defense

department, at least according to those who have worked with him, has struggled with drinking? >> i've spoken to people that know him very well and they say he does not have a drinking problem. >> that is where pete hegseth's nomination stands. we are watching very closely. another trump cabinet picu is being closely watched as former congresswoman tulsa gabbard, who is trump's choice for director of national intelligence. a group of 100 officials raise concerns about gabbard. writing, quote, several of her past actions call into question her ability to deliver unbiased intelligence briefings to the president, congress, and the entire national security apparatus. following her trip to syria, ms. gabbard aligned herself with russian and syrian officials. when reached for comment by an nbc news spokesperson for gabbard from the trump

transition team, someone said the letter contained unfounded attacks and insulted the credentials of the signatories. meanwhile, trump's threat of retribution against political enemies is reportedly causing the biden administration to evaluate how it could protect people whom the president-elect could target. nbc news reports that biden's team is discussing the possibility of preemptively pardoning some individuals trump has singled out in the past. that is according to two sources who are familiar with the discussions. among the people who could receive preemptive pardons are dr. anthony fauci, former republican congresswoman liz cheney, and democratic senator elect adam schiff. the biden administration has yet to make any final decisions, but still, the discussions highlight the uncertainty in washington ahead where donald trump's return to the white house is causing fears among a number of people about how he might wield power in his second term. for more on this, i am joined by my friend and colleague, msnbc attorney and former u.s.

attorney for the eastern district of michigan, barbara mcquade, who is also the author of attack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america. and also with us is david graham, staff writer for the atlantic. thank you guys for both being with me for the second hour of velshi . these preemptive pardons have taken a new sense of importance, because of some of the people who donald trump has talked about putting in his cabinet. can you talk about how the incoming administration could use the justice department to go after private citizens? >> yes, absolutely. i think when you got someone like pam bondi, who has been nominated for attorney general and who has said we need to prosecute the prosecutors and investigate the investigators, i think there are serious concerns that people like jack smith or merrick garland or other people who, in good faith, were prosecuting cases against donald trump might find themselves as the target of prosecution, similarly, with

kash patel as the nominee for the fbi director. he wrote a book called government gangsters, where he listed a number of public officials that he said were part of the deep state. i think unlike any other administration where you would say blanket pardons are unnecessary and could damage the institutions of government, in this instance, there really is a very real concern that some of these public officials, public servants could find themselves as criminal defendants. and even if they won't ultimately be convicted in the system because of juries and judges and other protections, even undergoing an investigation can be very expensive and very damaging to the reputations. >> in the atlantic this week, you wrote about how donald trump has chosen a number of lobbyists and industry leaders for his administration saying, quote, trump's staffing decisions, transition design, and his own behavior show that he is uninterested in even keeping up appearances this time. trump himself never say it, but the credo of his second term is

coming into focus. phil the swamp. can you talk more about this and what you think the trump team is putting back together? >> yeah, we heard him talk a lot about corruption in the later days of his first election campaign, and even in his first presidency. not necessarily doing a lot about it, but it was an important slogan. he is not talking about that when he talks about corruption, when he talks about his people supposedly in the deep state going after him and persecuting him. we have seen a real shift in focus. and i think despite the claims of populism that get attached to trump, and maybe the reason people voted for him were populist reasons. he is putting in very powerful people in industry, lobbyist. and you are going to see in an administration that has policies to reflect that. >> barbara, i have not had an opportunity to talk to a lawyer in a long time, so the glasses are coming off, as usual. this is a legal question, but more so and administration doj question. one would want to believe that

at some point the weaponization of the doj, if it does get to that, will garner some pushback internally, within. as someone who has been a u.s. attorney, what do you think that would look like? or do you think there won't be any resistance because of the direction given by the attorney general himself or herself? >> i think it will be interesting to see. most of the people who work at the justice department, 95%, 99% are career professionals who have worked in various administrations and who know that politics may play no role in legal decision-making. now, if you have leaders who are pushing you to do that, sometimes the way to pushback is to refuse to do something, in which case you may be fired, or to resign. so i worry that in the long term, if those good people who care about the rule of law leave, they will be replaced by people who are trump loyalists

and willing to do the bidding of pam bondi or kash patel. i think in the short term i am cautiously optimistic. but i'd do worry about the loss of some of those great experienced, talented, loggers of great integrity when they are pushed and may ultimately be pushed out. >> you use a great point when you use the word integrity, i think that is something we all need to keep in mind. david, turning to you, nbc just confirmed reports that the middle east envoy for the incoming trump administration went and met with the prime minister's of israel and qatar in late november to discuss the potential of a cease-fire deal. we are learning about this just days after donald trump demanded that hostages be released by inauguration day. in other words, there will be, quote, all hell to pay in the middle east. what you make of these meetings in advance of the inauguration, and how the incoming administration is approaching

the entire can't between israel and hamas? >> i mean, i think the first thing to say, we saw this also with images from paris about trump meeting with macron . we effectively have two residents. trump is conducting his own foreign policy before being elected president. we have had reports of elon musk meeting with iranian officials. you see him doing his own thing before he has taken office. i think that is unusual, unprecedented, and worth pointing out. as to what the policy might look like, we are seeing the outlines, trump used that in the middle east throughout his first administration, whether that was launching attacks on iran, things of the members of the administration held him back from doing, like attacks on syria. i think that we will see that again. he has to throw his weight around, and he is pretty strongly in the israeli camp. >> that was barbara mcquade and david graham. thank you to you both. and a quick programming note. tomorrow on meet the press, catch kristen welker's full interview and he screws up with president-elect donald trump.

his first tv interview since winning the 2024 election. that is going to be tomorrow on meet the press only on nbc. coming up, the supreme court heard what is likely the most consequential trends rights case in history this week. but when the decision comes down, its impact could reach well beyond the trans community. and then, the start of a new trumpet administration has a lot of civil rights lawyers worried. and i am one of them. i will talk about what is at stake and the danger of underestimating the urgency of this very moment with two giants in the civil right field, janae nelson and derek johnson. i'm charles coleman junior and there is a lot of trump coming up after the break. i think it's the most worthwhile place to put your money when it comes to childhood cancer. if it weren't for st. jude, i wouldn't be sitting here today. if it weren't for st. jude, a lot of kids wouldn't be with their families every day. let's come together to help the children

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this week report heard the most important transgender rights case in history. stems from a tennessee law that banned gendered affirming care

for minors. if those treatments are prescribed to help the patient transition. in this case, gender affirming care can mean anything from puberty blockers and hormone therapy to surgeries. the law is very specific in that it bans and targets trans patients. it stated purpose is to stop young people from being, quote, disdainful of their two. along with a doctor and three transgender youth patients have challenged that line argue that it violates the constitution's equal protection clause by terminating on the basis of sex engine write any. the state argued that the law is not estimating on the basis of sex , but even the tennessee solicitor general, the person defending it at the supreme court, was forced to make this important admission. the law would allow a boy to be prescribed testosterone to enhance his masculinity, but a girl, or at least a patient whose birth certificate says earl would not be allowed the

same treatment for the same purpose. now, in 1996 a supreme court ruling called united states versus virginia established an extra layer of scrutiny for any law that treats people differently based on gender. if you are thinking that this tennessee law seems to do exactly that, and that the guy defending it plainly admitted as much during oral arguments, you would be correct. this is not difficult math, folks. but that does not mean that this tennessee law is about to be overturned. in fact, after watching the entirety of oral arguments, what many court watchers are saying is that what is more likely in danger of being upended is the 1996 ruling that said laws should not treat people differently based on gender. during wednesday's oral arguments, the court's conservative majority appeared not only willing to uphold tennessee's trans healthcare band, but also showed some appetite to undo the nearly 30- year-old president the covers all sex and a gender-based

discrimination as decided in virginia. after a short break we will discuss it all with the one, the only, professor melissa murray. law professor at nyu and msnbc legal analyst. so stay tuned for more velshi. ♪ who knows what tomorrow ♪ ♪ will bring ♪ [dog barking] ♪ maybe sunshine, ♪ [dog whining] ♪ and maybe rain ♪ ♪ but as for me ♪ ♪ i'll wait and see ♪ [knock at door] ♪ and maybe it'll bring my love to me ♪ ♪ who knows ♪ ♪ who knows ♪ ♪♪

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♪ giving that's possible through the power of dell ai with intel. so those who receive can find the joy of giving back. 20 now is melissa murray, nyu law professor, host of the podcast strict scrutiny and msnbc legal analyst, superlawyer, and professor. i get to take off these glasses and talk to a lawyer, even though we specialize in fine eyewear, i am glad you are here. because we do entirely different things, and people don't always understand that. you are a professor, so please talk to us about the supreme court and what is going on with respect to this tennessee case. >> okay, this tennessee case prescribes that gender affirming care is not available to minors if they are girls

seeking to transition to men. they cannot have testosterone therapy. if they are boys trying to transition to girls they cannot have estrogen therapy. and they say this very closely. they don't want minors to be disdainful of their sex at birth. so they prohibit these. they allow these treatments for other purposes. so if you're a boy and puberty is coming onto early, and you want to delay it, you can take puberty blockers. but if you're a boy and you want to delay puberty because you wish to transition to be a girl, you cannot take puberty blockers. the challengers here were parents, as well as the biden administration arguing that that is explicitly distinction on the basis of sex . you cannot have certain treatments if you are a girl or you are a boy, and it is based on sex. it seems pretty straightforward, and there is a very long line of supreme court precedent that say quite clearly that when the government testing which is on the basis of sex , courts have to apply a more rigorous standard than they were for ordinary economic or health welfare legislation.

have to ensure that the government is distinguishing for an important governmental purpose, and the distinction is substantially related to serving that important governmental purpose. and here the biden administration and the parents below say that that is just not the case. it does not meet that intermediate standard of scrutiny. so it cannot pass. and that is not even the question before the court. the question before the court is simply is this a distinction based on sex? if yes it has to go back to the lower court to go through the whole question of whether the government has an important interest, whether it is substantially related. that is the only question here. but we have a whole array of questions at the supreme court on wednesday about women in men's sports, men and women sports, transgender athletes, the whole thing. and it was really up to justice jackson to focus everyone, the real question here is about the institutional role of the court to call out a distinction based on sex and send it back to the lower courts to decide if that intermediate scrutiny standard has been satisfied.

>> so, to what extent do you see the 14th amendment, the equal protection clause being sort of an open door, if you will, to get some of these cases before the court? it seems like this is the springboard that also made it right, in this case, but it could be something that is used in future cases to bring these types of challenges in front of the high court. do you see that as being a thing? >> i will say this. it was very surprising, in this oral argument, to hear so much discussion of abortion and dobbs. because this is not a case about abortion. they are obviously closely related. in dobbs there was an argument made by myself and two other law professors that abortion restrictions violated the equal protection clause because they applied mainly to women. and there were distinctions based on sex. in a very short paragraph, the justice leader who wrote the majority opinion in dobbs dismissed that argument wholesale, that just because it is about pregnancy does not make it a sex based

dissemination, full stop. that is the kind of logic the state of tennessee is using to defend this law, it is fiscally arguing that it is not a distinction based on sex, it is a distention based on medical purpose. and that is not a suspect category that would require the court to review this law more stringently. and again, this is an open door. there are lots of things that relate to sex based dissemination that have historically been justified on the basis of biology, like men and women are different. so if the court is simply saying that there is no sex based discrimination here, this is simply about medical purpose, biology, biological purpose, then that opens the door to basically undermining the entire equal protection body of jurisprudence around sex based discrimination that none of this is about gender or sex based stereotypes, it is about biology and it is fine. >> is it fair to say that this seems like a supreme court that is really eager and aggressive in terms of granting and reviewing to certain types of cases that are dealing with these issues with regard to gender or 22, trans people and

such? that we would likely see more than usual in the coming term? >> historically, the most important number of the supreme court has been five. you need five votes to get a majority opinion on something. now that we have a conservative 6-3 supermajority, the really important number is four. all it takes is four to grant cert on a case. now the conservatives have six they are not worrying about where the fifth vote is coming from. they can loose someone, they know that they are secure in a majority. and i think that doesn't belong them to take more cases that are more controversial than they otherwise would. so we are going to see a lot more cases dealing with firearms and the second amendment. i think there is been some pause with regard to abortion in the last term. you saw the court punt on two very big abortion cases, likely because there was a looming election. i think you will see those challenges come back before the court in short order. but again, this is a court that has all the votes it needs. it has the ideology that it wants to press. and it is basically cruising on a yellow mode. you only live once, use this

conservative supermajority while you can. >> indeed. i hope you caught that flex. what she said was when dobbs came out, i made an argument, i was involved. >> with two other people, there were three of us. >> thank you to melissa marie for being here this morning and breaking all of that down. before we had to a quick break, there is a programming note i need to make you guys aware of. you already know that you can listen to every episode of velshi anytime as a free podcast, but did you know that now you can listen to the show add free by subscribing to msnbc premium on apple podcast? today's the first day that velshi is available on msnbc premium. so go right ahead and scan the qr code right on your screen and check it out. coming up, why new york investigators say the suspect behind the murder of united healthcare ceo may have actually skipped town. i'm charles coleman junior and you are watching velshi on msnbc. ♪♪

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we are back with breaking news. here we have photographs of president-elect donald trump along with french president emmanuel macron . and ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy live from paris. we are still watching that international visit. welcome back. i'm charles coleman junior, and you are watching velshi on msnbc. york city investigators have located a backpack that they say may have belonged to the gunmen who killed united

healthcare ceo brian thompson. new york city officials say they found the backpack in central park and police are saying there is video of the suspect riding a bike in central park after the shooting on wednesday. now the fbi is offering a $50,000 reward for any information that could lead to an arrest. on thursday authorities released this photo of a man they are considering to be a person of interest. law enforcement has not yet identified him. investigators now say the suspect may have left new york city. for more on this we are joined by nbc's priscilla thompson, who is live now in manhattan. priscilla, thank you again for being with us. now that the suspect may have left new york, what other law enforcement agencies are becoming involved in the manhunt? >> yeah, charles, we just got information that the nypd has sent authorities to atlanta, georgia to work with police there as they are still working

to identify the suspect and figure out where he might be. the reason why that is important is because, as you may remember, the nypd said that they do believe that the suspects came into new york city on a bus that originated in atlanta. it made several stops along the way to new york city, so it was unclear if he actually got on that bus in atlanta. but of course, as they know that he has been went back to port authority after this crime, fled the scene, rode that bike into central park, took the bike out of central park, and then was caught on video on foot getting into a cab, going up to port authority, and they have video of him going into port authority. they believe he may have taken a bus there to somewhere, potentially back to atlanta, if that is, in fact, where he originated from. so we do know that the nypd is working with atlanta police on this. they've also been in touch with police in minnesota, where the united healthcare ceo is from. they are talking to family, colleagues there, and one

thing, we still do not know the identity of the suspect. police have not said anything more about a motive. but they are saying that they do not believe that this was motivated by anything going on in the victim's personal life. charles? >> that was nbc's priscilla thompson. thank you again for keeping us abreast on latest developments here. coming up, as a seasoned civil rights lawyer and a black man, i know one thing for sure, two things for certain. the future of american civil rights and the guardrails that protect them are both in peril as we face another donald trump presidency. i am terrified, and you should be, too. stay tuned to find out why. breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! ♪♪ wait. noom has glp-1 meds now? noom, the psychology based weight loss company? yes, noom combines medication and behavior change

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viking. exploring the world in comfort. welcome back to velshi. i'm charles coleman junior in today for allie. i've been a civil rights lawyer for over a decade, and a black man for my entire life.

as i pointed out in a recent piece for newsweek, right now i am terrified about what another donald trump term means for americans in our civil rights. on election night i watch the results come in like everyone else, and it was through my lens both as a civil rights attorney and as a black man that i processed the news that donald trump would be our next president. the sense of danger that i felt, that others are feeling, it was not imagine. it is so real that it is palpable. curbside bigotry has already been emboldened. only days after the election, black americans across the country, many of them young and in school, were micro targeted with hateful, racist text messages. the timing of these messages, some of them referring to cotton picking and a return to the days of chattel slavery, suggest that we are entering yet another era of heightened racialized violence. instead of crosses burning in the yards of black people, text messages and online bullying are being deployed to accomplish the same end. terror and harm. what is even more disturbing is what this might signal, that there is

more that is coming. which prompts important questions about how our civil rights laws would be enforced under a new trump administration, and when they are violated, whether there will be any accountability. on this show, ali has been talking for months about the myriad of ways that project 2025, the conservative blueprint for a new trump administration, stands to erode civil rights. it calls for the department of justice to be loyal to the president, and to investigate people and organizations at his discretion. it suggests prosecuting local governments, universities, and even businesses that ample mental diversity initiatives. and it even wants to remove federal guidelines that prohibit workplace discrimination against gay a transgender, and non-binary americans. now, one of trump's top administration picks, his choice to be the director of the powerful office of management and budget, that is none other than project 2025 architect and co-author russell vought. and there are other

project 2025 contributors sprinkled throughout his picks. including his choice for border czar, tom holman, his pick to lead the cia, john ratcliff, and his top guy for the fcc, brandon carr. we can also look to trump's first term. under donald trump the first time, the justice department civil rights division failed to investigate the minneapolis police department for deeply systemic issues following the killing of george floyd for over a year after his death. another reason i'm worried is because trumps posture towards consent decrees is not anything to sneeze at. these are court enforceable plans designed to reform state or local agencies where the justice department has found evidence of misconduct. they are often used told law enforcement agencies accountable when there is evidence of police violence, for example. now, consent decrees have been one of the few vehicles of account ability and redress that exist. they remind already problematic

law enforcement agencies that they are being watched. but in trumps first term, the department of justice pulled back on consent decrees in cleveland, los angeles, newark, and new jersey, and seattle. product 2025 calls to eliminate all existing consent decrees. plus, under a new trump administration, there is reason to worry about the right to focus protest against injustice. remembering the names of george floyd, breanna taylor, and ahmad aubrey could become an even more dangerous endeavor than it already has been. that is because project 2025 endorses using u.s. military on american soil against protesters who are deemed riotous. another idea that donald trump also openly held during his first term in office. we cannot accept the sad reality that there are those who see this moment as a time to violate our rights under the law.

but when those laws are seen as unworthy of enforcement, when accountability becomes negotiable, this has much more at stake than our faith in america's democratic institution. it is the very nature of democracy itself. that is at stake. throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. (children speaking) conflict is raging across the world, and millions of children's lives are being devastated by war, hunger, disease and poverty. we urgently need your help to reach children in crisis.

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before the break i told you about why i am worried about how civil rights as donald trump prepares to return to the white

house for a second time. for more on this i am joined by jeanette nelson, president and director counsel of the naacp legal defense fund, as well as their jobs, president and ceo of the naacp. so what have you for this conversation. derrick, i just talked about why i am worried about civil rights in the next trump era. can you talk about the naacp and what your organization is focused on as we look forward to what may be coming after january? >> i think your op-ed in earlier statements are all spot on. we are concerned about all the things you mentioned. but in the immediate we are working hard with the current administration around clemency. the extraordinary power of pardons and clemency is something that we cannot leave on the table. we have had a long-standing disparities in how people were treated as citizens for the same crimes. so we are pushing really hard, in this administration, to ensure that there is some equity and how people are

treated. those that are currently locked up. because we know when the next administration comes in, any individuals who attack our nation's capital will receive a pardon. those are treasonous acts. and we have to confront that for many years, where people would celebrate the confederacy when the confederacy is actually a treasonous act. so in the immediate we are going to focus on this administration and work really hard to ensure that we can do away with some of the disparities in our criminal justice system. >> today, the work that lds and so many other organizations like it do on the half of aggrieved people in order to enforce current existing civil rights laws is going to be so much more important when you do not have a doj and a civil rights division led by kristin clark, for example. how do you intend to develop the apparatus, if you will, to continue that work where the supreme court has made it increasingly difficult for

organizations to sort of sue on behalf of of aggrieved parties. i am thinking specifically about the voting rights act, for example. and how that has sort of been gutted in a way that has made it much more challenging for outside organizations to sue on behalf of individuals. what's the plan, what's the thought process there? >> well, we've been here before. of course we know that the selections of nominees of this incoming administration are even more egregious then trumps first administration. and during that time, lds became the alternative doj. we were prosecuting civil rights cases, administrative law cases, broad, constitutional challenges, because we knew the department of justice under trump was just not reliable as an enforcer of civil rights or constitutional protections. so we had to fill the breach, along with many of our allies in the field, and we are prepared to do that again, to be the surrogate department of

justice. as we will not abandon the civil rights laws that we have fought so hard for for over 80 years. we know that these protections are as necessary as ever. but this time around it is equally important that we leverage all law and power and processes to ensure that these anti-democratic efforts, these corrupt actions and abuses of power are stymied right out the gate. we have already seen some winds and some evidence of that. we have to not only be the surrogate doj, we have to also be b disruptors of the second administration. as you noted in your excellent op-ed, that project 2025 is attempting to really upend everything we have constructed for a multiracial democracy to succeed. so we are prepared, we are ready, and we welcome the support of all allies in the field who want to do this work to ensure that our democracy endures this significant threat. >> i like that, disruptors with

a b. you bring up some interesting points when you talk about the notion of coalition building. and eric, i have a question for you. as a leader of the naacp right now, i think that ideologically there may be some challenges on one hand, there is the philosophy around what it is to be a disruptor, but on the other hand, there is the question around at least making the attempt at coalition building. you've talked about the work that the naacp is doing with the current administration. are there efforts to engage the incoming administration around perhaps building a coalition with respect to civil rights and ensuring that some of these things are protected, and if so, what does that look like? >> first of all, in order to build a coalition you have to have mutual interest in outcomes. so if there is a demonstrated and genuine mutual interest and outcome that we can pursue, we are always hopeful. by the end of the day, the

naacp, our job is to protect the communities that we work for, to ensure democracy work for everyone, that equal protection under the law is afforded to all citizens, and more importantly, protect the gains that were made through hard-won fights. janine mentioned lds, 80 years old, more often than naacp is 150 years old. and we jointly fight to ensure that the constitution applies to everyone. that is our job. that will continue to be our primary responsibility with the african-american community at the tip of that sphere. >> you talk about the very important work that the lds does in terms of standing in the gap. if someone is standing at home right now and worried about what the doj is going to look like moving forward, but want to support a lawyers committee on civil rights, if they want

to support an advancement project, southern law poverty center, equal justice initiative, any of these organizations that are in gauged in this fight. what does that support look like in terms of the legal aspect of this? if you don't have much money, but you are someone who has invested in this, can you talk about ways that people can actually get involved in the fight? >> yes, i encourage anyone who is concerned about the future of this multiracial democracy in this moment to join us, to follow us at naacp lds.org, and all the other excellent organizations that you just mentioned, charles. civil society is under attack. if folks have been paying attention they will know that there is a bill that was passed by the house of representatives that aims to kill nonprofits. it is an attempt to give the government, the department of treasury specifically, unfettered discretion to decide that one of the organizations that i represent or that derrick or someone else represents is a terrorist supporting organization, just

because we hold beliefs that may be different from the incoming administration. so when you hear about bill like that, when you hear about definitions that will open the floodgates to interrogating civil society organizations like the legal defense fund that are nonpartisan, that are here to protect our democracy and to protect some of our most vulnerable communities, please support us. but also, join the fight. call your representatives in congress. be an agitator. show up at the meetings. get engage. this is a moment not to sit at the sidelines, but to be on the field and play very hard offense and defense. because we are facing an onslaught of attacks. >> derrick, there has been a lot of talk about different organizations and individuals being targeted by the next trump administration. i cannot imagine that the naacp somehow does not make that list. how are you all preparing for what could be a different level

of spotlight on the organization with respect to the work that you all have done and do within community? >> we understand focus. we understand the power of leverage. it has been demonstrated in the past. but as an organization, we know that the louder our voices, the more effective we are, the bigger the target we have. that is the job, and that is part of us doing the work that needs to be done. we encourage people to get involved. i think our organization, we are on the ground in communities across the country in 47 states. we still have local opportunities that we will be aggressively pursuing. and this county and statewide. we recognize that the power of this moment are the people we invest in, and people standing up to demand that the social contract called the constitution applies to everyone. so we ask people to join, be part of it, join locally, let your voices be heard. choose the vehicle for your voice to ensure that the

protections that are guaranteed are in place. so our fight will continue. we will get attacked, but we will continue to fight, because that is the nature of who we are as a community. that is the nature of the naacp. >> i believe you will persevere, and ladies in german, that is why the cues run the naacp. thank you to you both. that's going to do it for me. thank you for watching, this is another episode of velshi. it comes on every weekend morning from 10:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon. but for right now, stay where you are, because the katie phang show is starting right now. ht now. this is the katie phang show from miami, florida. a fighting chance. why donald trump says in a new nbc news exclusive interview his chances around the pentagon