you're going to say but we need to take fridays off, like those two messages do not jive. >> yeah. there's a lot of anger about that. molly, thank you as ways. thanks. for all of you getting up way too early with us. "morning joe" starts right out in.innocents. it's a moment of historic opportunity for the long- suffering people of syria. to build a better future for their proud country. it's also a moment of risk and uncertainty. as he will turn to the question of what comes next, the united states will work with our partners and stakeholders in syria to help them seize an opportunity to manage the risk.

>> that was president biden yesterday at the white house, addressing the end of bashar al assad's regime in syria. we will get a live report from the region and bring you expert analysis on this major development in the middle east. also ahead, we will go through president-elect donald trump's exclusive interview with nbc's meet the press, including his comments about wanting to jail the january 6th committee members, issue pardons for capital rioters, as well as his plans to undo a key piece of the 14th amendment. plus, we will bring you joe's conversation with former president bill clinton. they had a wide-ranging discussion on the future of the democratic party and much more as the clinton presidential center celebrated its 20th anniversary over the weekend. juan soto is going from the bronx to queens, agreed to the largest contract in professional sports history. we will have much more about that massive move for the new

york mets. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, december 9th. good to be here with you all with us. we have a host of way too early, jonathan. former supreme allied commander of nato. he is the chief international analyst for nbc news. the president on the foreign relations. weekly newsletter "home and away " available on some stack. and the associate editor for the washington post, david ignatius is with us this morning. a great group to have with us. major development. >> i got to say, over the last week, david ignatius, we are getting to the story and all of the details. but i must say, i've never seen anything quite like this since 1989 when you had one country and the eastern bloc after

another country, just falling by the day. after a bloody, bloody gridlock that had cost 500,000 lives over more than a dozen years. asad syria fell, just like that. and just like that, a brutal, tyrannical 54 year reign is over. >> joe, it was a stunning day. conclusion to one that has been so brittle. again, in the days of 2011, the uprise of the syrian people against what has been a despotic regime for decades. to have it and so quickly, it's 10 days since the group again to sweep south for its headquarters in northern syria. they were in damascus it seemed like in the blink of an eye. so it is a moment. the investors and said you can just

see the needle of the compass of world affairs turning away from russia and iran. lord, we hope, better governance and a better chance for the syrian people. we spent time in syria with these very people who were fighting in damascus. among them were people who were jihadists. they could pose a threat to the future security of syria. for the moment, what i was hearing yesterday from the administration officials was the success of this extraordinary change as a weakened russia and we can iran are really after israel's overwhelming response to october 7th. we wrote the basic rules of the middle east and altered the balance of power. >> it is really hard, adam, to begin to explain how world

affairs have been reordered. of course, the russians got into the middle east several years ago. for the first time since 1973, when putin send troops in. see have iran, you have russia. you have syria. it's really created a network of terror. a network of instability. russia could launch the into africa. even have iran finally -- terrace applies into hamas. islamic jihad and hezbollah. that just all got blown up this weekend. we don't know who the long-term winners are going to be. but certainly, the short-term losers, certainly what can be iran, russia and asad. >> absolutely correct. and just look at a map. if you think of as that old game of risk that we played as

kids, boom goes the bridge that runs from iran. we are showing it now, over to syria into lebanon. to the mediterranean sea. poof goes the russian basis on the mediterranean. a warm weather port. they have cherished the idea of it for so long, as we show there. now, their ability to operate in the eastern mediterranean is gone overnight. so all of this is a remarkable twist of fate. i think military analysts are going to focus, initially, on what happened here so fast. and it's kind of a combination. right? it's corruption and conscription. difficulties long-running in syria. it's also the distraction of russia tied up in ukraine and iran, flattened by israel. thirdly, let's not underestimate

the rise of a charismatic leader. i think a lot of folks are getting to know -- learn that name and we will see where this goes. is this going to be a new awakening, as we all hope? david use the words, we hope eric and i think we do. i think if you run the numbers here, 25% chance it turns out really well. and there's a secular country kind of emerging. i think 25%, it shuts down pretty quickly as jihadists take over. maybe a 50% chance it looks like libya, which is an ongoing state of conflict. all too soon to tell. bottom line, it is confucian to our enemies and success, at least for the moment, for the democratic side of things. >> and they collapsed, as we

just heard, in part because russia. is donald trump even said untrue social this weekend, russia has been gutted by ukraine. they didn't have the force to help asad in his time of need. and post october 7th iran has been gutted by israel. to have air defense. in fact, air defense right now. these two powerful allies of the sod -- in the time of need, nowhere to be seen. >> let's take a look at exactly what happened and then get to richard hoss. they toppled bashar al assad over the weekend, ending his family's decade-long rule. the rebels seized damascus after a lightning advance across key cities like aleppo. according to a senior biden administration official, asad has fled to moscow, where he has been granted asylum.

as the news broke, celebrations erupted nationwide. even in regime strongholds. meanwhile, israel bolstered security but stated it will not intervene. president biden delivered remarks from the warehouse yesterday, shortly after the regime fell. >> we support syria's neighbors. including jordan, lebanon, iraq and israel. through this. make a transition. i will speak with leaders of the region in the coming days. i've had long discussions with all of our people this morning. i will send senior officials from administration to the region as well. we will help restore stability in eastern syria, protect thing our personnel against any threats. and it will remain our mission against isis, including security at detention facilities where isis fighters are being held prisoners.

we are clear eyed about the fact that isys will try to take advantage to reestablish its capabilities and create a safe haven. we will not let that happen. as i've said, this moment of considerable risk and uncertainty. i also believe it's the best opportunity in generations for syrians to forge their own future. free of opposition. it would be a waste of this historic opportunity only to see anyone rise up in its place. >> richard, your analysis on where this goes from here and maybe a brief bit on joe biden's foreign-policy legacy? >> where goes from here, the honesty. we are not sure how it's going to play out. historically, traditionally after a revolution succeeds in the first phase of ousting the so-called regime, in this case,

assad. there's often a falling out among the various groups because they agreed what they were against, something very different to agree on what they are for. there's a scramble for power. so i think something like that is inevitable. the question is whether it comes together with a large struggle in syria or if you have some very different, almost a patchwork quilt. where syria remains a country on the map but the kurds have this part, turkish back forces have this part. hts took the lead here. they have large parts of syria. i think that's the real question there. and i don't think we are going to have a whole lot of influence on this. i think the real question for the united states is how do we use this in some ways to try to influence our biggest concern in the region, which is iran? and what is it we do in terms of taking advantage of a weekend iran. it's proxies are on their heels. iran itself is on its heels. what can we do now to deal with

the nuclear challenge, to try to reduce or cut off iran's aid proxies. what do we do about the regime itself? one other thought. i was just in saudi arabia. the conversations i had with officials there was, for the most part, you americans have to get over your hostility toward assad. you have to somehow normalize relations with him. the alternatives are worse. what's interesting to me is how much people misread the so- called stability and what this tells us about regimes. what was it about him? my own instinct here is he never really institutionalized it. so it was very brittle. china is an authoritarian regime but it's not brittle. it's institutionalized. the most brutal regime, in some ways, is russia. because putin has destroyed institutions there and he

himself must be watching events a little uneasily. have the question of iran. there almost in between. there are some institutions there but it's also pretty top- heavy. can i expect they are having some uneasy moments right now. >> and jonathan, obviously you look at all the reasons why syria fell. in the end, u.s. sanctions through the years have just gutted the economy. what money they did have was awash in corruption. and this fighters i have been fighting and dying through the years, realizing they would get nothing back in return because there really wasn't a functioning state that was worth fighting for. overnight, as we have seen this week, assad is now gone. following up with what mika said. we are obviously looking around and distracted by all that has happened since the election. but history is going to record the end of the biden

administration and it's going to say russia and their military gutted at levels we haven't seen in our lifetime. weaker than levels that we haven't seen in our lifetime. the ruble is on the run. the economy is close to being shattered. iran is weaker than they've ever been since the 1979 revolution. they, in effect, don't have any air defense systems left. they are at israel's mercy. and now you have asad, who is gone. joe biden, as you know better than anybody, in ukraine he's always been attacked for doing too much or not doing enough. and israel attacked too much, for doing too much or not doing enough. right? in fact, chances are kamala harris lost michigan because people fought he was doing too much to help israel out now. well, too much, not enough, i

don't know. but history is going to show what he did in ukraine to help ukrainians in their fierce fight against russia and the supplies and weapons he gave israel gave them the ability to do all of this. and again, have a map that is completely remade with people who consider themselves our enemies now. weekend in a historical manner. >> all that is correct, including a weaker russia and weaker iran. including, perhaps, it's electoral impacts here in the united states. there is no question that joe biden will be seen as a deeply consequential foreign-policy president with ramifications felt for decades. certainly, there's a note of uncertainty and even trepidation as to what might come next in syria. but we should take a moment to look at the scenes we saw this weekend, the joyful scenes. families are reunited for the first time in years. prisoners who tasted freedom for the first time in decades. just celebrations, spontaneous

celebrations across the country. statues of assad are being pulled down. even one large one being used as a makeshift sled through the city streets with joyful men on top of it. leaving that this is a new chapter in their lives and a new chapter for their country. so really remarkable there. even as we try to figure out what comes next. joining us now to shed some insight from the golden knights, nbc news international correspondent sanchez. so good to see you. give us the very latest from the region, including how israel, as we were just talking about, how israel played a role here in some way. and also might be looking at this as an opportunity. >> reporter: jonathan, good morning. we are on the is really controlled side. looking out over southern syria, damascus is over the rise in, that way.

40 hours ago bashar al assad was in power there. as his family has been every day for more than 50 years in syria. but today is a new day in syria . in many ways, it's a new day in the middle east. as the new panel has been discussing, this coalition of syrian rebels, after this lightning fast advance, that basically has brought -- to the 13 year civil war, are now in power in damascus. they're consolidating control. and bashar al assad has fled to moscow. he's been granted asylum there, according to russian state media. he's with his family. we believe that his wife, british-born former investment banker, is with him. putin prepared to give him asylum but was not there and his moments of need has these troubles were closing in, as you've been talking about. russia is bogged down in ukraine. iran and hezbollah weakened after more than a year of fighting with israel.

the highest of those groups is an islamist group that has its origins in -- still considered a terrorist organization by the united states. but this is a group that is doing everything it can to try to signal to the people of syria, and to the world, that it is moderated. they are saying there will be no revenge attacks against minorities. there'll be no limitations on the rights of women inside of syria. and president biden said yesterday, the u.s. is clear eyed about what he called the grim record of terrorism for some of these groups. that the u.s. will engage here and is hopeful that this may be a moment to reshape a free syria. talked, jonathan, about the joy across the country. i want to introduce you to a man i've known for nearly 10 years. in december of 2016 i said goodbye to him over the phone because i was convinced that he and his family were going to be killed as the assad regime

closed in around their home in the city of aleppo. they managed to escape. i want to play some sound from yesterday morning in the early hours when he received the news that the assad regime had been toppled. take a listen. >> now we can sleep and think of tomorrow. justice is achieved. now i can understand that my children will not be raised under oppression. i can stay that way. we are free, syria. we are free people! >> so you saw him there, cradling his young son, expressing his hope that his children will grow up without oppression and in a free syria.

just a sign that these are vast, geopolitical events but they mean so, so much to the hearts of individual people in that country. guys? >> rob sanchez, thank you so much. 54 years of brutal, brutal tyranny from assad is over. seemingly overnight. i want to talk about what this means for iran and her russia. obviously the two big losers here thus far. david, let me start with you. talk about what this means for iran. >> so iran, in the span of the last three months, has seen three key proxies. hamas in gaza, hezbollah in lebanon, and now assad in syria. devastated by the force. it's hard to imagine, just over year

ago after october 7th, 2023, that israel looks so weak and traumatized by the horrible hamas attack across the gaza fence. today israel has run the table. it's enemies are dead or in flight. iran has weakened in a way that we haven't seen, as you said earlier, since the revolution. i think an interesting question for the u.s. is whether that continues to apply coursing diplomacy on iran in a time when it can really defend itself, to resolve this issue of iran getting a nuclear weapon. iran getting a nuclear weapon would create a different environment. not the hopeful place we are talking about today. something quite scary. i think there will be discussion with the new trump administration and israel about pushing the next step to get real limits on iran and perhaps take military action. it's a moment in which you can see -- going up, going up,

becoming so much more powerful. we need to get it to come down now as they lose power with the proxies. >> i will say, with iran being at its weakest state since the 1979 revolution, not all of that is great news. if you live by the proffered, beware of the man with nothing to lose, right now that is iran. it is exactly right. now a weekend iran may be more desperate than ever to get nuclear weapons. tell us, if you will, what the fall of assad means to russia and tell us just how weakened vladimir putin's war with ukraine has left russia. >> the right question, before i go there, can i just had to

something? david was saying that we've all been saying it. the weakness of iran, let's not forget there's another proxy out there that has not been damaged. is continuing strikes. the -- on the red sea have effectively shut down the swiss canal and the red sea. i think that's a very tempting target set as we come off of the events in the last few days. let's go to moscow. this has got to be a moment of real concern for vladimir putin. your point is exactly right. not only does he now have to take in a sod -- assad as a vagrant coming with his family on bended knee to moscow, but more portly, it's the russian prestige globally that takes a real hit here. it's the damage the brand. i would think you have to go back to is ginny's ill-fated

attempt to topple putin a year or so ago, to see how difficult this moment will be for putin. so as i look at the hand of cards putin has going into what i think everybody increasingly presumes will be in negotiation with ukraine sometime in 25, this is a sign of real weakness for russia. that's good news for the united states, alongside what we see from the weakening of iran. >> richard, to close, give us a sense of what to look for in the next couple of weeks. especially given that there's a presidential transition coming up and donald trump has said what he has said about nato branching out a bit. once the challenge for the biden administration in the weeks to come before the transition? >> i think there's limited amounts the biden administration can do here. it's just an observation in 40

odd days. the challenges facing united states, one is we are obviously going to start pressing for a negotiated outcome in ukraine. and i think the real question there is whether what happened here makes putin, because he has suffered such a strategic defeat here, whether that makes him more difficult or not against the backdrop of the systemic weakness to compromise there. but clearly we are moving toward a negotiated outcome in ukraine. vladimir zelensky is ready to accept it. i think the big question facing united states that is central to our conversation here, is less what we do in syria. more as a result of syria and what happened. basically, iran. we have two paths. one is to negotiate a deal with this iranian government. on the nuclear issue and on their support for all the proxies. to essentially shut that down

and say, we will relief sanctions if you give us what we want on nuclear proxies. that's one of them. that would keep the regime in power. the other is to say, no, we are not interested in a deal now and we will press ahead with sanctions and we will turn to military force to deal with your nuclear program. not something united states and israel would do together. and i think the biden administration and trump administration, we have reached the proverbial fork in the road when it comes to syria about how we finally decide to deal with them at this moment of their systemic or structural weakness. >> richard and ignatius, thank you all very much for coming on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe." the communications advisor john kirby joins us to talk about the ouster of syrian president assad. axes cofounders will be our guests to break down how the media is now splintering

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almost half past the hour. president-elect trump is vowing to pardon most, if not all, of the january 6th insurrectionist's on his first day in office. he made the comment during an interview on nbc's meet the press yesterday. the president-elect also said members of the house january 6th select committee ought to go to jail. >> cheney was behind it. and so was betty thompson and everyone on that committee. for what they did, honestly, they should go to jail. >> c think liz cheney should go to jail? >> for what they did. >> everybody on the committee? are you going to direct your fbi director and your attorney general to send them to jail? >> not at all. i think they will have to look at that. i'm going to focus on drill, baby, drill. i'm going to look at everything pure we will look at all the pieces. i'm going to be acting very quickly.

>> within your first 100 days? first-day? >> first day. i'm looking at first day. these people have been there. how long is it? three or four years? by the way, they've been in there for years. and they are in a filthy, disgusting place that shouldn't even be allowed to be open. >> was bring in the cofounders and ceo, cofounder of axes, mike allen. we will get guys for the article about the splintering of the media. first, we should address this. quote, they should go to jail. liz cheney, bennie thompson, adam kinsinger, everybody else on the committee. that is obviously a red siren. i would say, specifically for joe biden, when he's talking about what pardons need to be issued. for everybody postelection that said, you know, people didn't

want the fascist rhetoric. they didn't want the harsh retribution. they were voting because of the price of bread and gasoline, well, donald trump, postelection, still talking this way. what does it mean? >> let's separate those two. the idea that members of congress were doing her job, doing their investigation came up with their conclusions and then reported those should go to jail. obviously we've never heard any other president in history say that would be the case. he was a crystal clear he's going to follow through with that. obviously it's something that bothers them, troublesome to the point that you brought it up again. but i would separate that from the january 6th pardons, which he made crystal clear he is doing. it looks like he's doing it on day one. in terms of issues where there is a massive two different lenses on it, nothing captures it more than this. to a lot of people, to probably us, people stormed the u.s. capitol. people were injured.

people were killed. the seat of freedom was disrupted. and now those people it sounds like will be set free. on the first day in office. i think it's one of the reasons, one of the many reasons democrats are so ticked off at joe biden for pardoning hunter because they feel like, now we don't even have the moral high ground to be able to say that this is absurd. but make no mistake, the president interview, which is a very newsy interview, very newsy interview, because he said he would do that on day one, a lot of executive orders, including any covering immigration on day one. he was even clear that if you are here illegally and part of your family is not that they might force the entire family to leave the country. so when they talk about the hierarchy of people that they are going to remove from the country, yes, it's criminals. but he made it pretty elastic and we should take him at his word because he's been following through on that.

>> by the way, the wall street journal headline talking about donald trump wanting to get rid of birthright citizenship. let's us say that it's not going to happen. it's a constitutional amendment. not going to happen. but still, the headline will be out there and people chase after. mike allen, very good point that jim just made. whenever he is talking about persecution against people that investigated him, for the most part it was more generalized. they should go to jail. jack smith, for what he did, et cetera, et cetera. are you going to go, let pam look at it, patel look at it. one thing he was very specific about, as you will note it, was january 6th riders that are going to be released. and my question is this, when push comes to shove, on january the 20th, on january 21st, is he really going to pardon people that were violent, that beat up cops, that gas cops, that used bear spray against cops. if so,

there will be a tremendous backlash even from people that voted for him. >> that's right. joe, the people around him, the people he's talking to, the people in his ear, the people calling his cell phone matter so much. because we saw president-elect trump repeat in this interview with kristen welker the fact that he sees success as his retribution. he's talking about the golden age of america that he wants to create. and then, absolutely, he leaned to this. kristen welker asked him, are you going to do this within the first 100 days? and that's what he said, first- day. and joe, i can tell you, as we talk to republicans and people in the trump transition, they say that the hunter biden pardon will be a big part of their talking point if they go ahead with some of these pardons.

they will say, he opened the door. they absolutely will, paul. >> again, they can use that if they want to. you have family of cops that got beaten up for just doing their job, defending the people's house, defending the united states capital. good luck with that politically. it will not go well. you can go hunter biden, hunter biden. well, that kind you just let out of jail, that was sentenced to 10 years for beating a law enforcement officer, that's on you. i want to read about what liz cheney had to say. here's the truth, donald trump tried to overturn the 2020 presidential election and seize power. he mobilized an angry mob and send them to the united states capital the attack police officers, invaded the building, and halting the official counting of electoral votes. donald trump's suggestion that

members of congress, who later investigated these illegal and unconstitutional actions, should be jailed, is a continuation of the assault on the rule of law and the foundations of our republic. jonathan, for a new incoming president, that is not the fight he wants to pick. i mean, he may want to pick that fight but is this not going to end well. >> it's not the fight he should pick but it very well might be the fight he chooses to pick. yes, there is a deep concern of what charge the january 6th committee would be hit with if he did this. first, on the pardons point, they can use the hunter biden thing is a talking point but these pardons were coming anyway. it has nothing to do with hunter biden. secondly, on the deportation piece of this. he said, i would separate families because i

would deport entire families. i do think there's a lot of people, democrats who are so despondent right now, who do wonder if in those early days of the trump administration, where he to follow through with this, the opposition, the protests were he to actually do it. we will see if he does. there will be a lot of pushback , even from the business world, which he cares about quite a bit. at this moment he is saying that he will. and lastly, this idea he said, i would not direct people under me to carry out these arrests or target my political opponents. that's giving him some plausible deniability. maybe he won't come on january 21st, say to arrest liz cheney. he's already directed it. he has said these names over, and over, and over for months. that would be at his behest were this to happen. >> for sure. we have to see how these choices pan out as well and whether some of them get through or not, or how they are

put in place. also, donald trump has a decision to make for himself. it's more important for him on day one? meetings with leaders, democrats and republicans, working on policy and linseed of action, perhaps getting things done, meeting goals. or, starting this way. which would make it very hard for any of those other things to happen. that's a big choice. also, adam schiff was on the committee. he's being sworn in as a senator and he will be joining us on morning joe. >> there are two doors. after say which one to open up here. that's an old price is right thing. bob barker. but the two doors, donald trump talks about, hey, i want to move forward. i want to make america great. i want our economy stronger than ever. i want to focus on making this country great again. there's that door that you can open. or there's the door that we saw in 2017, where the first

months were just completely crippled by one protest after another protest, after another protest. republicans got slaughtered in 2017 elections from the suburbs of pennsylvania to virginia. 2018, they lost. 2019, they lost. the question is, whether he's going to repeat himself. because he can't do two things. he can look forward and work on the legacy that he thinks is going to be about making america greater, stronger, more powerful than ever before, while going after political opponents. >> i think he would argue otherwise. he would argue, watch me, i'm going to do both. they are very clear when they talk to him. they think they can do both. the way we look at it, they will basically assemble a team and i an idea of creators and distress. the creators of the people that will be getting the economic jobs. and the jobs around energy. child's were you can create

momentum in the economy, create growth, create new jobs and industries. at the same time, they have these destroyers. the fbi, dni, or pentagon if he gets his way, where they feel like they do want to go after both their enemies. but also, they want to go after what they consider useless bureaucracies. they want to take the wrecking ball on one side while building on the other. i agree, it's very difficult. governing is a lot harder than talking. but they are bent on doing it. if you look at the people surrounding themselves, it's people that begged him on. when you think about like elon musk, yes you can. a lot more people think you can do it. might be ugly, it might be messy. at the end of the day you'll have more success when you choose that route. that's a route you don't want to go down. >> if they try to go down both routes it will end well. they'll use 25 elections, 26 elections, 27 elections. they can try it.

>> jim and mike, you are out with the recent piece looking at the growing divide and how americans consume the news. it's entitled, "shards of glass , inside medias 12 splintering realities." and what you label and explain, the dozen different ecosystems that, you say, modern media consumers and habit. starting with the musketeers. jim, take it from here. >> listen, it goes back to the beginning of this conversation of, is there a big segment of the country that thinks it's okay to pardon the people who stormed the capital and generate six? the truth is, there are. and a lot of that has to do with information. i think the most useful thing for your viewers is, stop thinking about news and start thinking about information. that's how people's minds get old and. what are they consuming? a little bit of news, little bit of news adjacent. some of it is nonsense. but that is the information bubble.

and it used to be that all of us kind of looked through the same window. go back 15 or 20 years ago. a couple of newscasts, a couple of cable stations, newspapers, all the same standards. has now been shattered. so tell me how much you make or where you work or do. and i will tell you where you get your information from and the information bubble that you live in could be completely different from the person sitting next to you. and that is what is new. if you are a young guy who's interested in fitness and vaguely interested in the news, you're getting your news from the musketeers. you probably listen to joe rogan. probably listen to the huberman podcast on longevity and health. it's really fascinating to me, is the thought and spirit meant that i give people, you can be sitting at people -- with people at a table of different ages and everybody around the table might be getting their news on a platform you've never visited, from people that they trust that you've never heard

of, and getting hopped up about a topic that has never come across your desk. that's new. and i think we have to reckon with a lot of our politics, a lot of our cultural issues, a lot of our conflict. it's all downstream from information. if you're in business and interested to what's happening in the country you have to get your mind around the shattered glass phenomenon. >> mike, weigh in on a couple of these other bubbles. you pick in terms of one to feel most important. i will note, of these, instagram, right-wing grandpas listen to fox news. but the kids, kids, tiktok. the very future of that platform is now in doubt. >> jonathan, here's a fascinating fact about these fragmented realities, these shards of glass. because there's very little overlap among them, if you told me your ideology, your job, your income, your location, your age. i can put you in one of these shards. but as we used to say, there is an shared reality anymore. now there aren't even shared topics.

like the right-wing grandpas that you've mentioned. they are talking about different things. case in point. i was asked to go on tv and talk about the pardons. that said, can you come on and talk about -- is probably not msnbc. but that is from the right. different topics. and, here's a real wrinkle, the way husk medications director. a senior advisor told the column that we wrote on the shards of glass phenomenon that's when they are looking at americans, voters, consumers, ages 18 to 35, there can be something that is the lead of "morning joe," or axioms. it's a clip with different context. so a 90 minute debate becomes there eating the dogs, eating the cats.

a remix on, jonathan, tiktok. >> the universe that fits neatly in, jim, is what universe? >> basically, i hate that term, but it's people who are looking to get informed about what's happening in the news on a day- to-day basis. largely to do their job or because they are deeply involved in government or civic debates. so if you have a good day we have 2 million viewers. if we have a good day we might get 2 million to 5 million people coming to the site. that's not 330 million people. it's a very valuable slice. i think it's where people are running companies, running media, running government go to to get informed. like mike said, there can be an entire population of people who are taking little pieces of that and running with it in ways that would be indistinguishable to how even talk about it or how we write about it. you can sit there and say, this

sucks, i really want to go back. you can't go back in time. we have no choice but to realize that the world is changing and basically have this collision of information consumption, politics and business/technology all at once. intellectually, i find it quite invigorating, quite interesting. all kinds of new businesses and ideas will be born from it. our job is to look at this as clinically as possible. be curious, not condescending. that's what we do when we are doing our very best. what we don't do that people dunk on us. >> when i read the article, somebody showed it to me. i was absolutely fascinated by it. it really does show you the world that we are living in right now. again, it's not something that i look at and am horrified by. something to look at and go, okay, there are 12 right now, silos, and a lot of times they don't cross each other. how do you get your silo and start moving out to some of the other areas?

>> i was at an appointment the other day and a woman was talking about her parents. i think they are in the right- wing grandpa category. they are convinced, from what they have been reading, the hurricanes were brought here by our enemies. and convinced, absolutely convinced. there were a couple of other pieces of information that were disinformation. that is now part of their reality. so it's also that problem. you guys have just scratched the surface here. this piece is amazing and we should talk about it more. the axioms cofounders, thank you both very much for this. and we will see you soon. up next, we are joined with the biggest story lines from the nfl and the college football playoff is now set with one notable omission. we will be right back.

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for the tampa bay touchdown. second and 5. wilson has it. throws it. touchdown. jefferson. >> it is hurts. firing. scoring. touchdown. philadelphia takes the lead. of the snap. the kick, no good. on a day where special teams failed the saints time and again. a special teams play decides it. >> to the end zone. touchdown! >> following the timeout. and he throws. touchdown!

jennings. >> i don't know how many organized football leagues there are. that was news to me. first down and more. turning on the jets. takes it to the house. touchdown, seahawks. >> a blitz. stafford sees it. scores! touchdown, rams. >> it is patrick mahomes honor roll. complete to kelsey and the first down. they've done it again. mahomes to kelsey. charges can't stop it. this is for the division. for the chiefs. right off and in for the division! it is the doing for the division for the chiefs. >> that is the most chiefs thing ever in 2024.

the most chiefs thing ever. unbelievable. another win. just barely. the chiefs, once again, winning . barely. thanks to a field goal from the third string kicker. we are going to give both of them the college football playoff in just a moment. pablo, let's for small talk about the good, the bad and the ugly pick yesterday, the good, the 49ers looked like the 49ers again. the steelers, now 10-3, if you can believe that. they are looking solid. the bad, new york. my god. the jets, the giants. just miserable. and the ugly, my atlanta falcons, now a four-game losing streak. what are your takeaways for week 14? >> for me wanting a scientist

to evaluate the kansas city chiefs, lucky's team in the history of sports, to needing a priest. we need a priest to examine this, joe. we are in the realm of the supernatural. by the way, this game in particular, they win this on a field goal going left, bouncing right, kicked by matthew. if you don't know who matthew wright is, that's okay. nobody did. he's the third string kicker. the third string kicker. that is the third kicker of the chief season to win with a field goal as time expired to get yet another victory. an improbable run that everybody is like, what do you do with this? what do you do with the team that feels like a billionaire getting tax cuts when it comes to good fortune? it's totally unnecessary how they are doing it. i'm flabbergasted, as always, by this team. >> i will tell you, this

reminds me of the vikings team a few years ago that won by a touchdown or field goal. and when they collapsed, they collapsed. this is not 18. even though i picked them and i always picked the homes. always picket. this is not a team that's going to win the super bowl i just don't think. that is bold. i know embedding. paul fine bomb, we will get to college in the second. here is a guy that the carolina fans were ready to put away six or seven games ago. bryce has had a remarkable run the last three or four games. and if he actually had some support they would have beaten the chiefs and the eagles. of course, it works out best for him because the more they lose, not because of him, the better draft pick they get next year. but bryce young, he suddenly looking like that guy we saw for four years at alabama. >> joe, what's a remarkable, literally everyone in the community and around the world

in the nfl wrote him off. he was down, he was benched. this is a just some guy being benched. this is a heisman trophy winner. the number one pick. he just has nothing around him because he's in contention for the worst franchise in modern history. and that's saying a great deal, considering that daniel snyder is still alive somewhere. incredibly, they are coming so close. he has done everything imaginable. last week he was about to win the game in overtime and his running back from him. yesterday, you saw against the eagles, and nfl receiver can't make a simple catch. but it is one of the greater comeback stories of a guy on the team that has only won three games. he won't get any awards but he deserves some. >> that would have capped off if an nfl receiver could have

caught na touchdown pass, capp off a 98-yard drive, pablo, and that would have been where the legend begins. any final thoughts on the nfl? >> i'm glad to celebrate the end of the jets' season with you guys. we talked about aaron rodgers so much. he has a documentary coming out next week. it's great timing for me because i happen to enjoy that dude basically being paraded out there as if this season did not happen, as if this season was worse than last season. it was -- >> glad we could make your morning. longest playoff drought of any team in professional sports. >> any team in any sport in america. >> and the jets haven't beaten miami in miami since 2014. now, paul, let's get to why i came today. >> oh. >> yeah. we've been waiting for this. >> threats and political threats. listen, i -- the college

playoffs and even going to 12, it's a joke how they do it. nick saban said it yesterday. the fact that they don't set this up like you set up march madness where you get the four best teams and you put them the head of the four brackets, just listen to this. i hear pablo sighing already because he was -- he was probably one of those gis saying, yes, tcu deserves to be in a couple years ago. we now have in indiana and smu, paul, we have two teams, two teams in the playoffs, that haven't won a single game against a top 25 opponent all year. all year. and they're going to get crushed in this playoff and the committee knows it's a joke. i don't know why they've set this up in the way. but merit has nothing to do with any of this. let me say for people out there i'm saying this because of alabama, no. i was saying yesterday you lose

three games in alabama, you don't deserve to go to a playoff. but two things can be true at the same time. this system is terribly flawed. it has nothing to do with meritt it has the committee going we have to hebe fair to tcu becaus they beat nutley high by three touchdowns. you've got teams like alabama that beat georgia, that beat south carolina, who, of course, beat clemson, beat mizzou, three top 20 teams, and smu 0-2 against top 20 teams. here's the second part of it, the top four seeds, paul, the top four seed, two of those four seeds, arizona state and boise state, both of them would lose five to six games if they played inside the sec. easily. easily. so, paul, here's my question to you as an alabama fan, and i'm dead serious, why wouldn't alabama leave the sec and either

become independent or go -- i'm serious -- or go play in the acc where quality wins. i kid you not. quality wins are considered duke, wake forest and louisville. i'm totally serious. i think it's stupid for us to stay in the sec. stupid. if we go out of the sec where we beat each other up week in and week out we get to go to the playoffs every year, our team's not beat up and we can win one national championship after another. >> pablo, i can't help but think a year ago we were all gathered here together and alabama had gotten in the playoffs and it was a much different mood than this funeral we're having today. joe, let me get to your question, and you're right in everything you said, except i don't think alabama should leave the sec. smu is in the playoffs. you know why? because they beat duke. they beat duke. >> whoa. >> but they beat duke in football. that is their card. that's how they got in. as far as your other question,

it really is an important question, joe, because right now i feel comfortable the head of the sec and big ten are having serious conversations. these two men control college football. i'm not going to give you a long explanation, but a the only rean we have the playoff today is because other commissioners tried to torpedo it after oklahoma and texas entered the sec. threw a fit, tried to block the playoffs that had been announced. they had to compromise. you understand that. they made a deal for this year. it won't look the same next year. when the tv contract runs out at the end of '25 it will look different. it has to ibe seeded. alabama is in and smu is doing whatever smu does this time of the year. >> you know, it seems to me that, you know, pablo, when you have these espn shows that talk about it and booger comes on, and he talks meabout how nutley

high school jv team went 12-0 and deserve to be in, the big lie that this is all based on. >> yes. >> is that all conferences are created equal, right. so smu, they deserve it because they got to the acc conference championship. clemson deserves it because they won the acc. let me give everybody a little stat over -- let me ask you, pablo, over the past 25 years, 5 how many national championshi do you think the sec has won? >>, so i looked it up, and i know the last 20 the s.e.c. has had ten champions or finalists, or runner-ups, which is a crazy stat. what's your number? >> i've got -- and i'm counting texas now who won in 2005 -- >> i see what's happening. >> -- the only win, 20 out of 25 national championships this

century have been s.e.c. teams, whether it's auburn or florida or alabama, lsu, texas in 2005, won the southwest conference, i'm just saying, this lie that the committee holds up and that booger mcfarland holds up every year, all conferences are created equal, just an absolute joke, and it means fans don't get to see the best teams. >> paul's got something. what do you got? >> joe, one more thing. after texas beats clemson in two weeks, do you know sowhat clemson's record will be in the sec this year? it will be 0-3. because clemson lost -- >> of course. >> -- to georgia on the opening weekend, they lost to south carolina, which is in the second tier of the sec trying to get to the first tier on their home field, joe. and you know they're going to lose to owtexas. so that's the comparison.so it's going to be right there for america to see that the representative of the acc will

likely almost positively be o-3 against the best conference. that's how ridiculous this really is. >> here's where i agree with you, joe, as i detect a whiff of the alabama-tuscaloosa for its citizens, this is a 12-team field for the first time. i want to reiterate that. it is a success on the level of look at all of the [ inaudible ] about the 12th spot, right. so the whole idea at the outset was this is going to be boring. everyone is going to get in. whatever. meanwhile, you have a dream scenario for everybody not in the s.e.c. you have alabama, and its constituency saying how dare you leave out the biggest, baddest team in the history of college football because they were thfighting for that last spot a because this coalition, this rainbow coalition of conferences, decided to enshrine the acc championship game. paul is right, in the near

future you will see a two-party system, big ten and sec, threatening to take their ball and go home, because when it comes to the business of this, what is a shame for me as somebody who enjoys watching the emotional roller coaster, wooden roller coaster that tends to be alabama, is that i can't. you guys are going to be in the reliaquest bowl. you'll play michigan. good luck, have fun. it will be more fun if alabama was in the dance, in the big one, as always. >> well -- well because -- and again, it's not because of brand. it's not because of conference. alabama beat georgia. >> that's true. >> alabama beat south carolina. >> that's true. >> clemson lost to. >> also lost to vanderbilt. >> and oklahoma. >> yeah, but -- >> so -- yeah, you know why, because you go through the sec schedule and get the hell beaten out of you week after week after week. if we were playing duke, i'm serious, duke, and then wake

forest, and then louisville and oklahoma -- >> okay. >>. >> -- our players would be smoking cigars at halftime. i'm going to leave it at this and then we have to go -- >> please. >> -- all i want is a merit based system. this is not about a two-party system. all i want the playoffs in college football to look like, is march madness where you've got -- you know, who are the four best teams. you know that ir' going to be the ones that are number one in their bracket. if that were the case here and you do the number twos that way and number threes and fours that way, there would be no problem here. you do it based on merit. >> well, the only good news is this is so bad it will get better, and i feel very confident in reporting to you they're working on it as we speak. but we're stuck with it this year. it's better ithan it was. you and i remember when the polls used to pick it and you

might have two or three different champions. it's great improvement, but this idea of little league baseball giving everyone a trophy, that's what they did to smu on saturday night. they were getting blown out. they made the heroic comeback. this committee is watching this all together at a five-star resort outside of dallas, and they all go, we can't deny smu and the smu coach said it would be criminal if they left them out. it's criminal they let them in. >> really is. >> we have buried the lede. >> go ahead. >> we don't have to get to this necessary. >> in this. pablo torres. june soto signs $765 million with the new york mets, and it's not just that he chose the mets over the yankees -- >> yeah. >> -- he left the yankees to sign with the mets. it's a new era in new york baseball. >> the largest contract in the history of sports.

anybody on the planet. i have never seen this. i'm a little shaken, john. >> i'm enjoying that. oy>> i am noticing yours, to ke using the german today, it's bad. june soto -- look if you fell asleep for 20 years and woke up, wait a minute, a guy is getting the gdp of micronesia over 15 years to sign with the mets, what the bleep is happening? bsteve collins, one of the hundred richest guys in the world, steve cohen has said i have all the money, going all-in, whatever you thought george steinbrenner was, the late great, it's me now. i am him. i'm going to get this guy. and they did it. i just haven't seen it like this. this is -- this is an embarrassment for the yankees and it's a problem because the mets, as we know, had a miracle playoff run, and now they have all of the fire power that the bronx used to it and doesn't

feel good. >> pablo torres finds out on metamark media -- >> look how sad he is. >> -- and paul finebaum. >> mika heard yelling and came running in.me she thought alabama made the playoffs. no, no. >> it was a very dark moment. okay. thank you both very much.er >> thank you, guys. >> the news at 12 minutes past the hour. so we're following the very latest out of syria where rebel forces have captured damascus, toppling the regime of president bashar al assad forcing him to flee to russia. we have more on the biden administration's response. >> at long last the assad regime has fallen. >> reporter: president biden reacting rto the fall of the assad regime and quick military action in syria. >> just today u.s. forces

conducted dozens of precision strikes. >> reporter: hitting 75 isis targets including camps leaders and operatives. the white house hoping to prevent a resurgence by the terror group in the region. >> we're clear eyed by the fact that isis will try to take advantage in a vacuum. we will not let that happen. >> reporter: the lepresident committing to rprotecting the roughly 900 u.s. troops he says will remain in the country offering a blueprint of future u.s. support. >> i will send senior officials from my administration to the omrecently to establish a transition away from the assad regime. >> reporter: despite this, the president expressing cautious optimism after the rebel takeover of syria. >> it's a moment of historic opportunity. >> reporter: making clear the country's future is still re uncertain, acknowledging the connection between the rebels and terrorist groups. >> make no mistake, some of the rebel groups that took down assad have their own grim record of terrorism and human right

abuses. >> reporter: mr. biden committing to securing the release of austin tice, an american journalist and marine veteran kidnapped in syria more than a decade ago. >> we believe he's alive. we think we can get him back. >> reporter: tice's family who criticized the biden administration for not doing more hopeful the fall of the assad regime creates an opportunity to bring austin home. >> we are hopefully and prayerfully and joyfully waiting to get the news that austin is walking free today. wa>> let's bring in chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" beater baker, former chief staff at the cia and department of defense jeremy bash, staff writer at the at at lannic david from and amman mohyeldin. >> peter, what is the white house saying this morning and what are they planning to do to

influence the movement in syria and across the middle east right now? >> this is a tricky situation i think for president biden and the administration. obviously, lots of celebration that assad is gone. his family rule with iron fist for half a century, nobody shedding tears for him today. that doesn't mean that the people who come after him are going to be jeffersonian democrats. the main rebel group here who was once an affiliate of al qaeda is on the state department list. the trick for the administration how to engage with a group you consider to be a terrorist and the best way to do it. the administration has been thsending messages to the syria rebel groups using the turks as intermediaries, the main thrust of those messages has been as you take over, do not involve isis. do not bring the islamic state into your coalition. they have been reassured by

messages back saying we're not going to do that. that's the main concern of the american policymakers not to allow isis to regain traction in the vacuum that's fallen. that doesn't mean these new rebel groups are going to be america's friends or able to assert real control over the country and create a better society. that's certainly the hope. biden, you heard him say in that speech yesterday at the white house, that they're willing at least to have an open mind about it, but the u.s. policy maker trying to figure out who are these guys taking over and can we work with them? >> amman, you've reported from syria and the region for a very long time. i was comparing this to the shock that so many of us felt back in 1989 when -- you were too young, of course, but i can remember it -- but when one warsaw pack state after another collapsed. a day at a time. you know, we started reading

these stories about a week ago, and no one could have imagined ldthat a bloody 14-year civil w that caused 500,000 lives would be over in a matter of a week. but it was. why? >> you know, that's a great question, and i think the people i've been speaking to say that all of the major tplayers in t region who backed these rebels and including some in the united states -- keep in mind this coalition of rebels, we are elfocusing on mostly those as ty are known hts the more hardline ones, others the u.s. backs from the southwest part of the country and those rebels are in touch with hts. they looked at the map of the region, saw iran, the major backer of the syrian government and hezbollah providing the foot soldiers on the ground to keep the assad region in power over the past several years, both had been extremely diminished and weakened over the past 14 months because of the war in gaza and war in lebanon with israel.

as a result of russia being embroiled in its war for the past three years in ukraine, doesn't have the manpower, the resources to commit to keeping assad in power, they assess that situation on the -- behalf of the syrian battlefield and said this is an opportune time for us to make our advance. they saw the morale among the syrian army is weak. the syrian regime does not have legitimacy among the people. they don't have cohesive command and control structures and they don't have the resources to stay engaged in a battle against the rebels athighly motivated, ideological, trained and disciplined and as we've seen, well equipped over the past tseveral years of this stalema. they seized the opportunity and they were proven right. >> david, all the pieces of the chess board have been thrown in the air. >> yeah. only over the past week but over the past three or four months if you see the collapse of e hezbollah and hamas on the run. iran air defenses shot.

they are basically without air defense right now. what does this -- what dangers and what opportunities does this massive power vacuum provide for the united states and other countries that are interested in stability in the region? it>> well, just as you said, les put this in a u.s. political context. president-elect trump said syria is not our business. as vice president, jd vance has been repeated russian propaganda how assad was the defender of religious minorities in syria. what did the syrian war do to the rest of the world? since russia intervened in 2015, half the population of syria are been turned into refugees. most of those people are living in turkey but millions fled to europe destabilizing every government in europe, causing the rise of the far right a force driving britain out of the european union and electing

donald trump in 2016. as everyone said putting something together stable in syria and decent is going to be very hard. the idea that you could do it when the united states is about to go awol from the world is inconceivable. this aftermath is going to prove the indispensability of american leadership and we're about to have an administration that doesn't believe that america can lead or doesn't believe that america can cooperate -- the united states should bark orders and everybody should listen.ev to put together to get people -- this country in any way to have any hope of doing that, to get reffies moving back home, the millions in turkey, the hundreds of thousands in europe, it's a big, abig project. american cooperation with allies is indispensable. >> america is indispensable, the indispensable power in the world. if you don't believe us and talk to our allies they'll say the same thing. jonathan lemire, what this brings into sharp relief,

sharper relief, actually selections of pete hegseth, 40-year-old -- 40-something-year-old who is ill equipped to be secretary of defense, has no experience that would allow him to be an effective secretary of defense for the incoming administration, and tulsi gabbard, who has a bizarre relationship, has had a bizarre relationship with assad, and as far as often repeating talking points. but to have the head of your intel division, to have the secretary of defense, two people that are ill equipped at one of the most fraught times in this region, i've got to believe -- actually i know based on discussions this weekend -- there are a lot of republican senators that are just shaking their head quietly going these nominees are not going qto mak it. >> tulsi gabbard had been sort of flying below the radar in recent weeks because of the

countriers controversy of matt gaetz and pete hegseth. what happened in syria has changed that. because of her strange ties with assad. voiced talking points from moscow, putin being assad's benefactor. jeremy bash, you have experience working at the pentagon and working in these sensitive levels of this nation's national security operations, let's get your assessment here. what this means for this incoming trump administration as david said who does not seem all that interested, perhaps, in being internationalists. what would it mean if indeed hegseth and gabbard were confirmed to these posts? >> look, i think the good news here is that iran has lost a proxy. i think russia has lost a proxy. hezbollah has been decimated as noted. in some ways you see some very positive developments in the region, of course, for the people of syria, this is a welcomed day after a 14-year bloody civil war in a half

century of terrible rule for the assad family. but, this is critical, the u.s. continues to have interests in syria and primarily we want to prevent it from becoming an ungoverned space a terrorist safe haven. for that reason the united states has to continue aggressive counterterrorism operations, including with some limited footprint on the ground sas we have in northeastern sya and the standoff air strike capability for over the horizon counterterrorism operations. if we don't do that and work with israel tand jordan and ou gulf arab partners to shape the outcome of syria, it's going to come for us. it's going to come for us in the form of refugees, come for us in the form of a safe haven for terrorist organizations. so the incoming trump team cannot be passive. it can't say oh, let's not get involved. that's not a thing. that's not a thing that the united states can or should do. we have to get involved smartly, carefully. we're not going to be putting massive amounts of troops on the ground and try to engage in nation building, but we have to try to shape the outcome and

stay on our front foot with respect to counterterrorism operations. >> the united nations security council is expected to meet today after the fall of president bashar al assad. the russian government called for the meeting with a representative posting on telegram, the group would convene behind closed doors this afternoon in new york. isjoining us now, white house national security communications adviser and assistant to the president, retired rear admiral john kirby. it's great to have you on the show. are there any updates to these fast moving developments that you can tell us about? also what this means for russia overall, including in its war against ukraine? >> the president's been staying up to speed on all events in syria. all throughout yesterday and then into the evening and he'll get enan update this morning. he's watching this as you might expect very closely. as he said yesterday you will see him engage with his

counterparts in the region over the course of the coming days on the phone to make sure that we all have the same common sight picket, and that we are all working towards the same goal which is a syria that can be tgoverned effectively and efficiently and meeting the aspirations of the syrian people. jeremy is right, a stable syria does absolutely affect our national security interests not just there in the region but elsewhere around the world. as for the war in ukraine, what i can tell you is that the russians continue to make plotting process in onthe east. there's still active fighting around kursk. the ukrainians put troops there. they're still going at it. the north korean soldiers are involved in that fighting. what we're trying to do is surge assistance to the ukrainians. there was a recent package announced, another one coming soon, to make sure that ukraine is in the best position they can to succeed on this battlefield. just as critically, if and when this goes to negotiation -- and i've seen all the comments about what might be negotiated and when and by whom -- but if and when it goes to negotiations we

want to make sure that president zelenskyy is in the strongest possible position, he has the strongest hand to play. >> admiral, good morning. in the wake of what we saw in syria in these recent weeks, particularly over the weekend, give us the white house's thoughts for iran whwhich we kn has been weakened. its proxies have taken so many hits tin recent months. it's a regime itself that appears unsteady.s what's the u.s. assessment? >> our assessment is exactly that, jonathan. the president spoke about that yesterday. iran is in a much more weakened, moch more distracted -- much more distracted space. there's the so-called axis of resistance keeps falling one card after another. hamas is decimated. hezbollah in a cease-fire with israel. and now, of course, assad is gone. they're look at the world and their world certainly in the airegion and they are knowing tt they are in a much weaker position than they've ever been before. so what they do next we're going

to be watching closely, obviously, and seeing, but it's hard to imagine them being able to reassert their influence in quite the same way that they have in the past.t again, that's a real testament to the kind of involvement and engagement the united states has been giving to israel in their fight against hamas there in gaza, but also to the -- to ukraine in beating back russia. >> white house national security communications adviser and assistant to the president, retired rear admiral john kirby, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. ayman, the rebels that have taken heover syria, at least th most powerful faction that the united states has labeled a terrorist organization is saying that it's sort of we've changed. we're -- we're going to unite the country and not going to be extreme. reminds me of what we were hearing out of afghanistan about the new taliban and then you find out meet the new taliban,

same as the old taliban. what can you tell us about this terrorist group, this rebel group, that's leading the charge and taking over damascus and syria? >> yeah. i mean i think the only thing i can say from my own experience also is trust -- sorry don't trust, but verify. at the end of the day their going to matter more than their words. to specifically talk about the leader of this group, abu mohammad al golani a person affiliated with al qaeda, went to go fight along isis in iraq against the americans, a young guy born in the golan heights or near the golan heights in syria, ultimately he is trying to recast himself. he gave an interview to cnn where he said hehas changed a lot of his viewpoints. you kind of could see that over the last couple years in that they've distanced themselves from the extremist hardline elements that fought alongside hts inside syria against the regime. of course, he's saying the right things and we're hearing that from president biden and inothe american officials, the language

has changed, but it's going to matter about the actions. one thing that has happened already in the first 24 hours since they have taken control of the government is that they have announced a new prime minister, a salvation prime minister, to lead this transitional council if you will inside syria. that man is a syrian government -- former government official who the ts has recommended. we're going to see whether or not the rebels and syrian opposition have learned from the mistakes of other arab spring countries. tunisia, libya, egypt, each has gone in a different way based on their own experiences. libya descending in a full-blown civil war. egypt and tunisia stable in they didn't have the bloodshed we saw. if hts and other factions insist on holding power unilaterally it is going to end in disaster. if they can bring in a coalition of the minorities and other factions within syrian society, it has a chance of success. in the first 24 hours, they seem

to have signaled that they want to give all of these participants in syrian society a seat at the table. whether or not when it comes to actual power sharing that materializes, remains to be seen. right now they're signaling the right words and the right changes, but it's not something i would bet anon completely. >> all right. ayman, thanks so much as always for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. the atlantic's david frum thoughts. >> home to fbe two former russn bases. the united states can't be just a spectator here.a whatever happens in syria maybe the united states can't control it, but with offers and incentives and disincentives the united states can be a partner with the europeans, partner with the gulf east. this is no time for america alone. america alone is america the loser. america is powerful because it is reinforced by strong friends. work with friends to try to do america's best to bring security

and stability to syria. it's the american interests and president-elect trump is wrong to say the opposite. >> all right. speaking of friends, david, great f to have you on today. >> thank you. t i appreciate it. >> david frum, appreciate it. see you soon. time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. the leader of south korea has been barred from leaving the country following his short-lived attempt last week to impose martial law. the justice ministry approved the travel ban as investigators consider whether his actions amounted to an insurrection when he attempted to seize the national assembly using soldiers. an effort to impeach the president failed over the weekend. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy says around 43,000 of his country's soldiers have died in the war with russia. those comments appear to be in response to president-elect donald trump's claim that kyiv had lost 400,000 troops. zelenskyy says while hundreds of

thousands have been wounded, many returned to the battlefield. still, ukraine's count of those killed is far below estimates by western intelligence agencies. and president-elect donald trump made his re-entry on to the global stage over the weekend at the reopening of the notre dame cathedral in paris. trump sat in the first row at the ceremony between french president emmanuel macron and id france's first lady. first lady jill biden also sat nearby. the pair sharing a moment before the french first lady took the seat between them. ahead of the event, trump met with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy and french president emmanuel macron. it was the first face-to-face meeting between trump and zelenskyy since trump won the election last month. macron's office says the meeting between the trio was proposed by

macron and arranged soon before trump's arrival. a trump transition spokesperson described the meeting as a very general discussion. when asked by nbc news whether trump still hopes to end the war in ukraine by inauguration day, the official responded, quote, he is optimistic. trump also met with the prince of wales during the visit. prince william was said to discuss the importance of the relationship between the u.s. and the uk. kensington palace described the meeting as friendly and warm and that picture is from prince william's personal instagram. >> instagram account. so peter baker, democrats are very concerned that joe biden has ceded the stage internationally already to donald trump, that world leaders are treating donald trump as if -- well, like as the de facto leader. i dehad a source inside a europn

delegation call me and was at the event and was in some of these meetings, and he said he had never seen anything like it before, that donald trump was treated as de facto president there and found it to be highly unusual, but also highly unusual that the sitting president had exited the stage and seemed it leave it to the incoming president. >> the old adage there's only one president at a time doesn't seem to apply in this transition, unless you believe the one president at the moment is donald entrump. it is very striking how much biden has, you know, shrunk from the stage. he's pulled back from the national conversation. he did come out yesterday and ougive that statement about syr, asserting himself, therefore, in effect as the president, but e you're right, to watch trump notre dame, who hasn't yet taken office yet, to see trump on

sunday, you know, on "meet the press" to see daily announcements from announcements from him not just on appointments but on policy, to the point he is prompting the canadian prime minister to rush down to florida to meet with him and negotiate on things that don't begin until january 20th it's striking. we haven't seen this before. most incoming presidents are careful not to step on the, you know, toes of the outgoing president. the outgoing president usually wants to keep on the stage as well and still use all the time left in office, and, obviously, biden, i was with him last week in angola, that was, obviously, an important priority of his, he went to south america for a couple summits, but you don't see him driving the conversation. he hasn't had a signal interview since the election. he hasn't given a signal ngle n conversation. on the trip to angola he spoke six words to the pool of reporters, in south america one word.

he is shrinking and democrats are concerned about that. >> on the idea of trump's appointments f he named alina habba, his unsuccessful lawyer from his manhattan case, to be senior white house counsel, met with a lot of raised eyebrows. jeremy bash following up on what peter had to say, not only has president biden engaged with the president and not sure if he will do the traditional news conference at the end of his term -- we hope he does -- he has ceded a lot on the world stage and does seem like donald trump was rushing in to fill that void.o talk to us why that might be complicated or confusing for other world leaders, both friend and foe. >> yeah. we have a long transition and other countries have a much more compressed time. during this transition as peter noted the transition is you let the outgoing president frame up their accomplishments and put a bow on it and donald trump seems determined not to do that. correct, he's acting as if he's president.

he says he's wanted to begin negotiation over ukraine, which is where i think we're likely to see a hairpin turn on u.s. policy. i think it's kind of a concerning signal for allies and partners around the world. they're not exactly sure who to deal with. the reality -- here's the reality. the reality is s that in a few short weeks donald trump is going to be in the oval office, calling the shots. his team is going to be in place. and if i were a european leader or i were volodymyr zelenskyy, i would also want to be dialing up directly with the guy making decisions and i think it's good that they're engaging him because he does seem susceptible to influence, and i think these european leaders are going to be able to have an influence on the incoming administration. >> former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense jeremy bash, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," president-elect trump issues a new threat to jail lawmakers who

investigated the january 6th capitol attack. what former republican congresswoman liz cheney is saying about that. plus, joe's wide-ranging interview with former president bill clinton, where they discussed bridging the divide between democrats and republicans. >> we're living in a time when we are both deeply and yet fairly closely divided. now, president trump this year won a fairly healthy electoral victory for a simple reason -- a lot of voters who thought trump was economically successful before covid hit and they got that check from him in the mail that he signed where more democrats than republicans voted for the bill, but he said i'll sign it if i can send a check out -- he knew what he was doing -- then vice president harris had an almost impossible

job because she became a candidate at a time when no one else could legally access the money that had been given to joe biden and no time to have primaries. so she was, in effect, a stranger to people. if people knew what they liked about trump and what they didn't. and about 54% of them were -- would have happily voted for somebody else. but people didn't feel that they knew about harris. >> and we're still a 50-50 nation. i know the day after everybody, democrats were in shock, but the further you get out, you go, wait a second, she lost wisconsin by less than 1% of a vote, 1% of the vote, michigan about 1.2%, 1.3%, the same with pennsylvania, a little bit more. yet, democratic senators won in those states. democratic senator progressive democratic senator won in arizona. i mean, we still are such a

closely divided nation. >> we are. >> aren't we? >> i think that a lot of it is the information system. that's why i think we should all be talking to each other and not playing demographic games. speaker 1: at st. jude, there's one thing that makes us all family-- finding cures, saving children. speaker 2: in this family, families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food. speaker 3: one in five kids in the us still won't survive cancer. speaker 4: in this family, we won't stop until no child dies from cancer. speaker 2: this holiday season, join our st. jude family. we need you. please donate now. to me, harlem is home. but home is also your body. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem?

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44 past the hour. president-elect trump is vowing to pardon the january 6th insurrectionists on his first day in office while members of the house january 6th select committee, he says, should go to jail. here's what he told "meet the press" moderator kristen welker over the weekend. >> cheney was behind it and so was bennie thompson and everybody on that committee. for what they did -- >> yeah. >> -- honestly they should go to jail. >> so you think liz cheney should go to jail. >> for what they did sfwlooz anybody. >> -- are you going to direct your fbi director to send them to jail? >> they have to look at that. i'm going to focus on drill baby drill. >> we're going to look at everyone. >> okay. >> but i'm going to be acting very quickly. >> within your first 100 days, first day? >> first day.

>> first day. >> i'm looking first day. >> these people have -- how long is it? three or four years. >> okay. >> by the way, they've been in there for years and they're in a filthy, disgusting place that shouldn't even be allowed to be open. >> so they're in jail for committing crimes. peter baker, your thoughts on these comments and the impact such action would have? >> well, of course, it's striking what he's saying is the people who attacked the capitol, who assaulted police officers, who tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power, should be let out of prison and people who investigated that attack should be put in prison. that's, i think, you know, pretty straightforward in terms of his priorities and values. you know, look a lot of things he said there are not true. it's important to remember, for instance, that the vast majority of those who have been convicted of offenses on january 6s are no longer behind bars.

only a handful are in that washington jail he's talking about. those are the ones convicted of the most violent of crimes, the ones that hurt people on that day. the people he's talking about releasing from prison are the ones who are the most violent of all. it's the case that he says liz cheney and members of the january 6th committee in some way destroyed evidence. that's been debunked. that's not true. he's using that as as a predicate to argue they should be put behind bars. and i think that this suggests, for all those who want to believe that donald trump is somehow going to be a kind e gentler version of himself, the talk of retribution during the campaign was bluster, you know, that's just not the way it looks like now. he's putting in kash patel at the fbi, if confirmed by the senate, and kash patel has been clear he plans to come after -- that's his phrase -- come after those he believes have been unfair in some way to donald trump.

violate the law he accuses people critical of trump. i think that this is a very, you know, telling indicator of where things may or may not go after january 20th. >> right. not surprising. peter baker of the "new york times," thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," as the manhunt continues for the gunman who killed the ceo of united health care, there have been on social media appearing to celebrate his death. we'll have the latest on the investigation and how the online culture of hate could be putting more in danger. that's next on "morning joe." mo. with who you love? get back to better breathing with fasenra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems. serious allergic reactions may occur. get help for swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens or you have a parasitic infection.

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♪♪ welcome back. it's 49 past the hour. beautiful shot of new york city. the new york city plenty has released new photos of a person of interest in the death of unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson. the photos were taken from a

taxi camera. authorities believe the suspect took a cab after the shooting outside the hilton hotel in midtown manhattan wednesday morning. it's believed he used a bike to get to central park, which is just a few blocks away, and then got into a cab and went to a bus station near the george washington bridge. police say surveillance video shows the suspect going into the station but not coming out. on saturday police found a backpack in central park they believe the gunman discarded after the attack. four sources familiar with the investigation tell nbc news the gun used in the shooting was not found in the bag, but police did find a jacket and some monopoly game money. let's bring in nbc news national security analyst, former fbi special agent clint watts. with us "new york times" reporter covering internet culture. she is covering the story with

this a new piece entitled "torrent of hate for health insurance industry follows ceo's killing." but clint, let's start with the investigation. i think a lot of people are thinking why haven't they found this guy? why haven't they arrested him? what is making this so difficult as far as you can tell? >> i think there's a big difference in this case compared to a lot of cases i might be on here talking about, which is the shooter went to great lengths to cover his tracks. he wasn't on camera a lot. if he was he had a mask. he used things like cash. he didn't leave a lot of physical evidence. he was there doing reconnaissance for a number of days. this is different from some of the mass shootings or other attacks we've seen that have been very targeted. also the withdraw very interesting, he's used a bus to get into the city, maybe a bus to leave the city. used a bicycle into central park, one of the least dense areas of new york city in terms of cameras. just looking at the way this

plot was thought through, he thought all the way up to the point of the attack and all the way in terms of his withdraw. i think that might be something of concern for what his intentions might be in the future. >> all right. and i want to -- madison, i want to switch to you on what has been spinning out on social media and, quite frankly, into the public discourse about not just the ceo, but that the whole health care industry, but the focus on him is deeply disturbing. the types of things that are being said not only endanger the lives of other ceos in this industry, but i'm deeply worried for his family and -- i mean there's so much negative impact what is happening, and yet, social media it seems to thrive on this, especially twitter. >> absolutely. the response we've been seeing in the wake of the shooting has

been incredibly callous. it's important to note that the language of the internet is couched in a deep sense of dark irony. this reaction, while brutal for mr. thompson's family and friends, i have no doubt, is not that unexpected in the way we see events like these processed online. >> so let me follow up -- >> go ahead. >> hold on one second. it's not just brutal for his family, it could be dangerous for them. and is there any -- what do you make of this? this happens to not just this situation, but to a lot of people, when the tide turns against them fairly or unfairly? are we working toward any type of ability to, perhaps, i don't know if it's regulation or through their own behavior, put an end to this type of action on social media? >> i think this is a pretty typical reaction. we've seen reactions like this before and we likely will again.

i think, again, it's important to talk about well there are some people online calling for literal further violence, many people are coming from a place of deep, deep hurt and frustration, with a system, private health care insurance, in the united states that's so much larger than brian thompson and that is where i think this torrent of hate really is stemming from more broadly. >> no question that the calls for further violence out of bounds. >> of course. >> clint, this is a real thing. this vain of anger. how much are law enforcement looking at this and these other twitter threats as possible motives for this killer? >> two parts. for all these health care leaders and companies now, vulnerability assessment. where are they going? are they out in public? is there public information about them? seeing them take leaders off websites being more careful about the information they put out. on the threat side when it comes to social media, it's terrorist ideology, but with any ideology or motivation, when you see public violent rhetoric, the larger the volume there's always

a fraction of 1%, somebody that's maybe thought of doing something like this and finds inspiration in this attack. that's what law enforcement is really going to have to watch out for now, much in the way we've done other terrorist sort of organizations in the past. what's that small, small minority that might want to mobilize the violence in the future. >> nbc news national security analyst clint watts, thank you. we'll see you in our fourth hour to talk about the developments in syria and "new york times" reporter madison kercher, thank you as well. still ahead on "morning joe," democratic senator elect adam schiff of california will be our guest ahead of his swearing-in ceremony today. plus, we'll play for you joe's interview with former president bill clinton. hear his thoughts on the state of the democratic party and much more. "morning joe" will be right back. oe" will be right back michael strahan: i've been a part of the st. jude family for years. and i never thought i'd hear the words, "your child has cancer." well, my 18-year-old daughter was diagnosed with medulloblastoma, a brain tumor.

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i was gonna say- "popular! you're gonna be pop-uuuu-larrr!" can you do defying gravity?! yeah, get my harness. buy one line of unlimited, get one free for a year with xfinity mobile. and see “wicked,” in theaters now. at long last the assad regime has fallen. this regime brutalized, tortured and killed nearly hundreds of thousands of innocent syrians. it's a moment of historic opportunity, long suffering people of syria. to build a better future for their proud country, it's also a moment of risk and uncertainty. as we all turn to the question of what comes next, the united states will work with our partners and the stakeholders in

syria to help them seize an opportunity to manage the risk. >> that was president biden yesterday at the white house addressing the end of bashar al assad's regime in syria. we'll get a live report from the region and bring you expert analysis on this major development in the middle east. also ahead, we'll go through president-elect donald trump's exclusive interview with nbc's "meet the press," including his comments about wanting to jail the january 6th committee members, issue pardons for capitol rioters, as well as his plans to undo a key piece of the 14th amendment. plus, we'll bring you joe's conversation with former president bill clinton. they had a wide ranging discussion on the future of the democratic party and much more, as the clinton presidential center celebrated its 20th anniversary over the weekend. good morning and welcome to

"morning joe." it is monday, december 9th. good to be here with you all. we have the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire, former supreme aim lied commander of nato, chief international analyst for nbc news. president emeritus of the council on foreign relations richard haass, author of "home and away" available on substack, and columnist and associate editor for the "washington post" david ignatius with us this morning. a great group to have with the major development we're covering. >> i have to say it was -- the news this weekend. >> whoa. >> actually over the last week, david ignatius, we're going to be getting to the story and all of the details, but i must say, i've never seen anything quite like this since 1989 when you had one country and the eastern block after another country falling by the day. after a bloody, bloody gridlock

that cost 500,000 lives over more than a dozen years, assad's syria fell just like that and just like that a brutal tyrannical 54-year reign over. >> joe, it was a stunning day, conclusion to a war that's been so brutal. it began really in the days of the april spring in 2011. the uprising of the syrian people against what's been a despotic regime for decades. to have it end so quickly, ten days since this group, the hts, began to sweep south from its headquarters in idlib in northern syria and they were in damascus seemed like in the blink of an eye. it is a moment as one of my sources in the biden administration said and which you should just see the needle of the compass of world affairs

turning away from russia and iran to real adversaries of the united states, toward, we hope, better governance, better chance for the syrian people. i worry as somebody who has spent time in syria with these very people doing the fighting that rolled into damascus, among them are people who are jihadist, who could pose a threat to the future security of syria, but for the moment, what i was hearing yesterday from the administration official was a sense of extraordinary change as a weakened russia and weakened iran reeling after israel's overwhelming response to october 7, really rewrote the basic rules of the middle east and altered the balance of power. >> it is really hard, admiral, to begin to explain how world affairs have been reordered. the russians got into the middle

east several years ago for the first time since 1973 when putin sent troops in, so you had iran, you had russia, you had syria, and it really -- it really created a network of terror, a network of instability. russia could launch that into africa. you could have iran funneling terrorist supplies in to hamas and islamic jihad and hezbollah. that just all got blown up this weekend. we don't know who the long-term winners are going to be, but certainly the short-term losers look to be iran, russia, and assad. >> absolutely correct. and just look at a map. if you think of it as that old game of risk we played as kids, poof goes the bridge that runs from iran -- you're showing it

now -- over to syria and to lebanon, to the mediterranean sea. poof goes the russian bases on the mediterranean, the warm weather port they have cherished the idea for so long as you showed there. now their ability to operate in that eastern mediterranean gone overnight. so all of this is a remarkable twist of fate. i think military analysts are going to focus initially on what the hell happened here so fast -- >> right. >> -- and it's kind of a combination, right. it's corruption and conscription difficulties, long running feuds in syria as david says. it's the distraction of russia tied up in ukraine and iran flattened by israel, and then thirdly, let's not underestimate the rise of a charismatic leader. i think a lot of folks are

getting to know abu mohammad al golani, learn that name, and we'll see where this goes. is this going to be -- >> right. >> -- a new awakening as we all hoped. david used the words "we hope" and i think we do. i think if you run the numbers here, you know, 25% chance it turns out really well and there's a secular country kind of emerges. i think 25% it shut down pretty quickly as jihadists take over. maybe a 50% nce it looks like libya, an ongoing state of conflict, too soon to tell, but bottom line it is confusion to our enemies and success, at least for the moment, for the democratic side of things. >> and they collapsed as we just heard in part because russia -- they're -- as donald trump said

on truth social this weekend -- russia has been gutted by ukraine. they didn't have the force to help assad in his time of need and post-october 7th, iran has been gutted by israel in attacks. they don't even have an air defense, effective air defense, right now. so these two powerful allies of assad in assad's time of need, were nowhere to be seen. >> well, let's take a look at exactly what happened and then get right to richard haass. syrian rebels toppled the regime of president bashar al assad over the weekend ending his family's decades long rule. the rebels seized damascus after a lightening advance across key cities like aleppo and homs. according to a biden administration official assad has fled to moscow where he has been granted asylum. as the news broke, celebrations erupted nationwide even in regime strongholds. meanwhile israel bolstered

security near the golan heights but stated it will not intervene. president biden delivered remarks from the white house yesterday, shortly after assad's regime fell. >> support syria's neighbors including jordan, lebanon, iraq and israel should any threat arise from syria during this period of transition. i will speak with leaders of the region in the coming days. i had long discussions with our people this morning. i will send senior officials from my administration to the region as well. we will help stability -- ensure stability in eastern syria. protect the personnel, our personnel, against any threats, and remain our mission against isis -- will be maintained, including security of detention facilities where isis fighters are being held as prisoners. we're cleared eye about the fact that isis will try to take

advantage of a vacuum to establish its capabilities and create a safe haven. we will not let that happen. as i've said, this is a moment of considerable risk and uncertainty, but i also believe this is the best opportunity in generations for syrians to forge their own future free of opposition. it would be a waste of this historic opportunity if one tyrant were toppled and only -- only to see a new one rise up in its place. >> richard haass, your analysis on where this goes from here and maybe a brief bit on joe biden's foreign policy legacy. >> where it goes from here, you know, the honest answer, no matter who you ask that question to, mika, we're not sure how it's going to play out. historically, traditionally after a revolution succeeds in their first phase of ousting the so-called regime, in this case the assad, there's a falling out among the various groups that

were part of the effort because they agreed on what they were against -- something very different to agree on what they're for -- and there's a scramble for power. something like that is inevitable. the question whether it comes together in some large struggle in syria or whether you have something very different, almost a patchwork quilt, where syria remains a country on a map, but the kurds have this part, turkish-backed forces have this part, this sunni group, hts that took the lead here, they have large parts of syria. i think that's the real question there. and i don't think we're going to have a whole lot of influence on this. i think the real question for the united states is how do we use this in some ways to try to influence our biggest concern in the region which is iran. what do we do in terms of taking advantage of a weakened iran, its proxies are on its heels, iran itself is on its heels, what can we do now to deal with the nuclear challenge to reduce or cut off iran's aid for

proxies? what do we do about the regime itself, which must be a little bit worried? coming up, joe's conversation with former president bill clinton. they talk about the political landscape of today and what has changed since they served noting washington. that discussion is straight ahead on "morning joe." g joe. >> you and i have now been friends for years. we've got our political differences and we've got a political history, but i know you, i think, and i like you. now suppose you and mika just did a makeover of your living room and you asked me to come visit, and i visit and it is beautiful. everything about it is beautiful. except in the corner you've got this beautiful curved couch, but behind the couch there's a pink elephant. >> yeah.

>> and now i could ask you, i guess you're still a republican you just turned a little pink, or -- we could do it. almost doesn't matter what i say. >> right. >> the one thing i cannot do is to come in drink coffee talk about how beautiful your living room is, and turn around and not mention the pink elephant. >> and ignore it. ignore it i have dry eye... tired, itchy, burning... my symptoms got worse over time. my eye doctor explained the root was inflammation—so he prescribed xiidra. xiidra works differently. xiidra targets inflammation. over-the-counter drops don't do this. they only hit pause on my symptoms. but twice-daily xiidra gives me lasting relief. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra and seek medical help if needed.

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please donate. ♪♪ jonathan lemire, obviously, you look at always reasons why syria fell at the end, u.s. sanctions through the years just gutted the economy. what money they did have was awash in corruption, and those fighters who had been fighting and dying for assad through the years realized they were getting nothing back in return because there really wasn't a functioning state that was worth fighting for and so overnight, as we've seen this week, assad is now gone. you look, following up on what mika said, we're all, obviously, looking around and distracted by all -- everything that has happened since the election. but history is going to record the end of the biden

administration and is going to see russia and their military gutted at levels we haven't seen in our lifetime. weaker than levels we haven't seen in our lifetime. the ruble on the run and the economy close to being shattered. you're going to see with iran weaker than they've ever been since the 1979 revolution. they, in fact, don't have any air defense systems left. they are at israel's mercy. and now you have assad who is gone. of course, joe biden, as you know better than anybody because you follow him, in ukraine he was always being attacked for doing too much or not doing enough and israel, attacked too much for doing too much or not doing enough. right. and, in fact, chances kamala harris lost michigan because people thought he was doing too much to help israel out now. well, too much, not enough, i don't know, but history is going to show that what he did in

ukraine to help the ukrainians in their fierce fight against russia and the supplies and weapons that he gave israel, gave them ability to do all of this and again have a map that is completely remade with people who consider themselves our enemies now, weakened and historical manner and on the run. >> yeah. all of that is correct, including a weaker russia, including a weaker iran, including perhaps its electoral impact here in the united states, but there's no question that joe biden will be seen as a deeply consequential foreign policy president with ramifications felt for decades. certainly there's a note of uncertainty and trepidation as to what might come next in syria, but we should take a moment to think about the scenes we saw this weekend, the joyful scenes, families reunited for the first time in years, prisoners who tasted freedom for the first time in decades, celebrations that spontaneous

celebrations across the country. statutes of assad being pulled down, even one large one being used, pulled as a makeshift sled through the city streets with joyful men atop of it believing that this is a new chapter in their lives and a new chapter for their country. so really remarkable there. even as we try to figure out what comes next. joining us now to help us shed some insight, joining us live from the golan heights, nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez. give us the very latest from the region including how israel as we were talking about, how israel played a role here in some way and might be looking at this as an opportunity. >> reporter: yeah. jonathan, good morning. we're on the israeli controlled side of the golan heights looking out over southern syria. damascus is over the horizon that way. and 48 hours ago, bashar al assad was in power there, as his family has been every day for

more than 50 years in syria. but today is a new day in syria, in many ways it is a new day in the middle east. as you and the panel have been discussing, this coalition of syrian rebels, after this looipg lightening fast advantage that has brought an end to the 13-year civil war, are now in power in damascus. they're consolidating control. and bashar al assad has fled to moscow. he has been granted asylum there, according to russian state media. he's with his family. we believe his wife, a british-borne former investment bunker is with him. putin prepared to give him asylum, but was not there in his moment of need as these rebels were closing in. as you've been talking about, russia bogged down in ukraine, iran, hezbollah weakened after more than a year of fighting

with israel. the largest of the group hayat tahrir al sham has origins in al qaeda, considered a terrorist organization by the united states, but this is a group that is doing everything it can to try to signal to the people of syria and to the world that it is moderated. it is saying there will be no revenge attacks against minorities. there will be no limitations on the rights of women inside of syria. and president biden said yesterday the u.s. is clear-eyed what he called the grim record of terrorism of some of these groups, but that the u.s. will engage here and is hopeful that this may be a moment to reshape a free syria. coming up, president-elect donald trump says our next guest should be jailed. senator elect adam schiff responds to that straight ahead on "morning joe." e. singer: this is our night! shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects! only shingrix is proven over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults

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♪♪ on friday i sat down with former president bill clinton at his presidential libya brarry in little rock which is celebrating its 20th anniversary. we discussed his new book "citizen as after the white house and the polarized state of american politics. >> we're living in a time when we are both deeply and yet fairly closely divided. now president trump this year won a fairly healthy electoral

victory for a simple reason -- a lot of voters who thought trump was economically successful before covid hit and they got that check from him in the mail that he signed where more democrats than republicans voted for the bill, but he said i'll sign it if i can send a check out, he knew what he was doing -- than vice president harris had an almost impossible job because she became a candidate at a time when no one else could legally access the money that had already been given to joe biden and there was no time to have primaries. so she was, in effect, a stranger to people. the people knew what they liked about trump and what they didn't, and about 54% of them were -- would have happily voted for somebody else, but people

didn't feel they knew about harris. >> and we're still a 50-50 nation. i know the day after, democrats were in shock, the further you get out, you go she lost michigan 1.2%, .3%, little bit more, and yet democratic senators won in those states a progressive democratic senator won in arizona. we still are such a closely divided nation politically, aren't we? >> i think that a lot of it is the information system. that's why i think we should all be talking to each other and not playing demographic games. >> i want to read from something that you wrote in the book about the 2016 election. this whole thing is hard for me to write. i couldn't sleep for two years

after the election. i was so angry. i wasn't fit to be around. i apologize to all those who endured my outbursts of rage, which lasted for years and bothered or bored people who thought it was pointless to rehash things that couldn't be changed. in this chapter, i've tried to calmly write about the darkest election possible in the united states because it's important to understand what happened. >> it's easier for us to know what happened in 2016 in some ways than what happened in 2024 in terms of all of it because in 2016, you had two highly unusual things. first of all, the mainstream media told the american people repeatedly that the biggest issue was hillary's e-mails -- that's what they said, not just fox -- when, in fact, even the

trump state department said she neither sent nor received a single solitary e-mail on her personal device marked classified. one. two, she followed the rules that then existed. the rules were changed after she left office. the whole story was written as if she had done something hideous and then james comey made it worse. >> in his july press conference where he came out and said she wasn't indicted but for the first time decided he was going to pontificate about what he thought. >> he said she was careless, and i told a story in the book about how when president obama called to tell me that bin laden had been killed in the successful raid, he said we did it. i said did what? he said we got bin laden. hillary didn't tell you >> i laughed. i said, now mr. president, you

told your people not to tell anybody, didn't you. >> he said yeah, but -- i said she didn't tell anybody. i mean hillary is sort of down the line person. so it was ludicrous the extent to which people went to essentially facilitate a smear on her, and i think they did it because they thought they had to mention something bad about her if she said something bad about trump. >> we saw the same thing not so long ago of the hunter biden pardon. you look at the first five, six, seven stories on the "new york times" site it's all about that. first five, six, seven on the "washington post" site all about that. on the same day that a man is picked to be the next fbi director who said he had a list of enemies over 60 long, and he was going to throw reporters,

journalists, editors, in jail. >> it is true that it is highly unlikely i think that anyone who was wher biden was would have been facing a substantial jail sentence for something he did when he was under the influence of drugs and when he has paid back and paid his fines for all the taxes he owed. whatever you think about that, it pailed in comparison with a deliberate use of the criminal justice system to punish your political enemies. this whole thing has been thrown off for several years now because of the dominance of what i call roy cohn politics. roy cohn was senator joe mccarthy's main adviser and then he came back, and he was donald

trump's father's main political adviser and then president trump and roy cohn matter what happens, always deny everything. always attackp always accuse other people of doing what you're doing. and pretty soon the most important people who believed that are your own supporters, and then nobody believes anybody about anything. we need to go back and meet people where they live and talk to them about what they're interested in. i realize that, you know, it's easy to underestimate the intelligence of people when they're focusing on what they care about, but you've got to deal with what people are living with. president biden will leave office with a record of creating more jobs created in his four years than in any previous

four-year period in american history. no matter how many -- if that number were 50 million, it will be about 16 to 18, somewhere between that, if it were 50 million, it would be nowhere near the number of people who are affected by inflation and food prices. so you have to discuss these things. you can't pretend no business, no marriage, no friendship, no nothing, can succeed and thrive if you don't deal with the pink elephant in the room. >> talk about how democrats maybe could learn from that and maybe stop firing at each other and start working together. >> yeah. look, i don't even believe the real problem is whether you should be more verbally left or center. i think you've got to talk like

people talk who will make the difference in the outcome in the election. you don't have to sell out what you believe in. but you do have to meet people where they live and you can't get very far avoiding it. like, you and i have now been friends for years. we've got our political differences and we've got a political history. but i know you. and i like you. now suppose you and mika just did a makeover of your living room and you asked me to come visit, and i visit and it is beautiful. everything about it is beautiful except in the corner you've got this beautiful curved couch but behind the couch there's a pink elephant. >> yeah. >> and now i could ask you, i said, i guess you are a

republican and just turned a little pink. almost doesn't matter what i say. the one thing i cannot do is to come in, drink your coffee, talk about how beautiful your living room is, and turn around and not mention the pink elephant. >> and ignore it. i think a lot of democrats, lot of people like me independents, i was focused on donald trump's political rhetoric, his violent political rhetoric. i said, it sounded like fascist rhetoric to me. combine that with january 6th, with everything else. i kept talking about that every day because for me, that was what mattered the most to me. the pink elephant over there, that's the cost of groceries. that's the cost of gas. that's the thing they've got to take care of first, right. >> yep. well the average person,

believes whether they voted for president trump or not the first time that we survived it, and they give him, perhaps, too much credit for the fact that in the first two and a half years or so of his presidency the first time, the economy got better. i think the facts are that he inherited the end of the obama era recovery. we went from 8 million jobs in obama's last years to 6.5 million in trump's first two years. there was no inflation and people felt it. so we had to see that election the way they did and answer that and start with that. so when we didn't answer it it was like we left the pink elephant in the living room. there is a reason why we're already the longest, continuously existing democracy in history. it's hard to save one. that's fine. but if you're going to fight to

save it, in an election with all these forces raining down on you, that's the game you got to play. you got to deal with the issues that affect other people's lives. the same thing is true all around the world. look at this upheaval happening. people are losing faith in institutions and in many, many places they're going to reward the people that destroyed their faith. i wouldn't bet against america. so far everybody that has bet against us has lost money. we have to stay after it. >> all right. mr. president, the book is "citizen." what great honor. glad to see you again. thank you. >> president clint's memoir "citizen" is available to youp in -- now. tomorrow we'll have more from the clinton global initiative. >> coming up this morning, our next guest will be sworn in today to the united states senate. california democrat adam schiff

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cheney was behind it and so was bennie thompson and everybody on that committee. >> we're going to -- >> for what they did honestly they should go to jail. >> you think liz cheney should go to jail. >> for what they did -- >> are you going to direct your fbi director and your attorney general to send them to jail? >> not at all. i think that they'll have to look at that, but i'm not going to -- i'm going to focus on drill baby drill. >> that was president-elect donald trump speaking to moderator of nbc's "meet the press" kristen welker about the house select committee and the january 6th attack on the capitol. let's bring in nbc news national security editor david rohde with more on this. so, i take it, david, you watched the entire interview.

there was a lot said there. some equivocating, but some very clear statements about retribution. what's your analysis? >> well, this is sort of classic trump. you're absolutely right and it was great you showed the whole clip there, there's a very clear call for members of the january 6th committee to go to jail. these were members of a congressional committee that followed house rules, created that committee, issued subpoenas, interviewed people in private, interviewed them in public. i am, you know, not a lawyer, but as i've talked to people who worked on the january 6th committee and other people who have come up, they say they've done nothing wrong. they don't understand what crime they might have committed, and they were simply pursuing congressional accountability. so that's my sense. then we can talk more about the second part of that clip where he suddenly says, but i'm not going to order anyone to do anything. it's up to kash patel, his choice for fbi director and pam

bondi, his choice for a.g. and that fits trump putting hard stuff on other people and keeping his fingerprints off anything blatantly improper. >> as we discussed earlier in the show this is out of the trump playbook. i wouldn't tell them to do anything. he already has. he said these names and directed it sort of given the idea, whether or not on january 20th at 12:01 p.m. he gives an order he has done so. they know what he wants. let's -- to the -- let's talk about these -- whether the january 6th members here the committee members, what possible charge could this even be and what leaps would have it have to take -- would law enforcement have to take to carry out trump's wishes? that really feels like we're going down a slippery slope. >> there is going to be the crux of the trump second administration fbi and doj. there aren't that i see crimes there, but there's another level, like a third level this is working, and he is sending a message to anyone in the justice

department, anyone in the fbi, anyone on capitol hill, don't investigate the second trump administration because this is what's going to happen to you. and it doesn't -- you know, you can name a special counsel, you can launch a grand jury investigation, and it will make someone's life hell. particularly career justice department people who don't make that much money and fbi folks who don't make that -- make even less, they don't have great career opportunities and don't get a pension until they put in 20 years. i've seen this before. he did it throughout his first term and doing it again, and it's to intimidate people. >> so let's bring in now democratic senator-elect adam schiff of california, who will be sworn in later today. senator-elect schiff served on the house select committee to investigate the january 6th attack on the united states capitol, and, sir, i'd love your thoughts on being sworn in today amidst a cloud of what president-elect trump said about

members of the january 6th committee, which you were one. >> well, i'm excited to be sworn in today. i think the senate is a place where you can still seek out people across the aisle and really get things done, and there's a lot we need to get done for the country and my home state of california. in terms of the president's threats, i would say a couple things. first, all of us that worked on the january 6th committee are proud of the work that we did. we exposed one of the darkest chapters of our history when a president incited a violent attack on the capitol to try to stop the peaceful transfer of power. the vast majority of our witnesses were republicans, some high ranking republicans in the trump administration, who testified under oath and in public hearings so that the country could hear and see and learn about what took place on that awful day. a really important form of congressional accountability. we're proud of what we did. i do think to underscore the point you all were just making,

this not just out retribution of those of us on the committee. this is about sending a message no one better hold him to account in his second term, no one better look at what he does, do their congressional job t that he is intent on trying to break down these checks and balances in our system. that's where the danger lies more so than to the members of the committee. i think the american people are very concerned about crime. they want an fbi director and an attorney general to deal with fentanyl and deal in california with smash and grab robberies. this is not what they're looking for, to turn the -- the agencies into some vehicle political retribution. >> one of the things that he accused the committee of is illegally destroying records, among other things, along with saying that all should go to

jail. what's your response? >> you know, i've seen him make that allegation before an candidly i don't know what the heck he's talking about, whether this is some crazy conspiracy theory that grew up online or whether it's just something he's making up. but it's completely without merit and just i think another one of his baseless attacks on the work of the committee. his real grudge at the end of the day is he was exposed, and some of his own very top people held him most accountable, testified against him, and this is really where he's coming from. that and his other grievance which i've heard repeated many, many times is that he's never gotten enough credit for the size of the crowd on january 6th, which you have to live in i think a pretty warped world to think that's the most important point about january 6th that people are missing. this is just one of his meritless complaints and i don't want to speculate about where it

comes from. >> mr. senator-elect, you, of course, for many years have warned that donald trump is a threat to the democracy. you did so victorious. we know vice president harris lost. the democrats, you know, were defeated, lost control of the senate, the -- were not able to rae claim the house. do you -- as americans voted for things like the economy, they voted about the border, inflation, things of that nature. do you worry this has lost its residence? have people begun to tune out that issue, which i know you feel is important, so how do you enbreak through? >> well, i would say you're right. i think the issue in the election was the economy. that was very clear to me in california. i'm sure it was true in every other state as well. in fact, most of my campaign was not about trump. it was about the economy. it was about trying to address the high cost of housing and the

high cost of child care, building more housing, addressing homelessness, addressing public safety concerns. this was really what i campaigned on, and i think those that were successful likewise were focused on the economic issues. we have to i think as a democratic party come to grips with the fact that people, many working families, decided they had more confidence in the republicans than the democrats at this moment in time. that i think was part of a global wave against the incumbents, left, right or center, but we have been losing working people for many years and i think we have to do a much better job working with connecting with people, have policy prescriptions that are bolder and simpler and clearer, if we're going to recapture the majority in the senate, house and the white house. >> senator-elect adam schiff of california, congratulations on

your swearing in today and thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> great to be with you. >> all right. take care. david rohde, you heard about the goals and the hopes that incoming senator schiff has for the future. that up against what we were talking about earlier, the threats against all those who served on the january 6th select committee. how will those balance out, do you think, and what are you going to be watching for? >> i thought, you know, jonathan's question was great about how make this resonate. i think -- >> yeah. >> -- what we're talking about is more chaos and legal litigation as they sort of go ahead with these i think there will be criminal investigations, and i think it's a diversion. i think it will distract the fbi and justice department from fighting fentanyl, fighting crime, countering, you know, chinese and russian espionage in

the country. i don't think there will be immediate total takeover of the fbi and justice department for trump's purposes. there are checks on that. it will be deadlock and division and distraction, and that's -- you know, we'll see how it plays out, but it will be up to voters to decide if that's what they want in the -- in future elections. >> for sure. nbc news national security editor david rohde, thank you very much. his new book is entitled "where tyranny begins, the justice department, the fbi, and the war on democracy." it's on sale right now. up next we'll play for you more of trump's "meet the press" interview, including how he hedged a bit on whether his plan on tariffs will actually help americans plus we'll turn back to syria where celebrations are under way following the rebel forces' victory in damascus. we'll have the latest on that major development in the middle east. "morning joe" will be right back.

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all right. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and 9:00 on the east. after years of devastating wars, syria's government is toppled. rebel forces captured damascus causing bashar al-assad to flee to russia. chief foreign correspondent richard engel has the latest from damascus. >> reporter: it's ultimately how all dictators go. jubilant crowds tore down the statue of the now former president bashar al assad's father, the founder of a dynasty that ruled syria with an iron fist for more than half a century. we saw the same scenes as pictures of the assad family were defaced at the border crossing where we entered syria from neighboring lebanon. we are now inside syria.

we just crossed the border and you can see there's no controls anymore. the government is gone. there are rebels, gunmen on the street. the regime has collapsed and you notice the second you enter the country. the mood is celebratory and welcoming. people are proud of this new dawn and still in disbelief that assad is really gone as we drove to the capitol, we passed boys i abandoned government check cheering. in the end, it was the army that sealed his fate. soldiers refused to fight. they faded away and ran as the rebels led by islamists rolled into damascus on a post. the rebel leader once an al qaeda supporter and considered a terrorist by the u.s. is promising moderation and to work for all syrians. he has ordered forces to prevent looting and leave civilians unharmed. so far, they appear to be doing that.

the rubble's first priority appears to be breaking into syrian prisons to free thousands of political prisoners kept in horrific conditions of torture and deprivation. syrians are rummaging through asides empty palaces and seeing his lost life of privilege. a video claims to show his fleet of luxury vehicles, sports cars, suvs, and exotic collectibles that he won't need in russia. the russian foreign ministry confirmed his side and his family arrived in moscow, given asylum for humanitarian reasons. syria is a new hope, new possibilities, and significant challenges as the map of the middle east is being redrawn by the hour. >> my god. joining us, former u.s. ambassador to russia another director of institute for international studies at stanford and nbc news international affairs analyst, michael mcfall.

four star general, barry mccaffrey, nbc news military analyst and nbc news security analyst is here and contributing editor for the financial times, kim. jonathan lemire is here as well. >> you have been living and studying, writing about, reporting on this region for so long, and you've got to be thinking along the lines of the bill latimer/lineend quote that there decades when nothing happens then there are weeks when everything happens. this was shocking to us in the west. i am wondering, for those who live in the middle east and seeing 54 year tyrannical rain dissolve in a weeks time. what is the reaction there? and what are your insights? >> good morning. it was shocking for people who follow this closely as well.

how fast this happen, how smoothly it happened. in the end, there was very little fighting. the rubble troops from various, rebel groups from various parts of syria, the north, the islamist group, the kurds got involved from the south. everybody moved in and created this movement on bashar al- assad. when it started last week, it's not even decades happening but decades happening in days. when it started last week, monday, and aleppo fell, nobody anticipated that his regime would dissolve so quickly. certainly, a lot of us expected he would put up a last stand in damascus, but he did not. the writing was in away on the wall and it happened gradually then very quickly. is a confluence of events that made this happen including the fact he was willing over an exhausted parts of syria,

exhausted army, that did not want to fight anymore. did not want to pay in more blood. the fact iran, his he geisha key patroness supporter has been exposed over the last year since october 7, and key is hezbollah. the shia militant group that fought with thousands of men syria to support aside has found its own capabilities and leadership, mostly destroyed in lebanon in the recent war with israel. finally, russia. its intervention in 2015 is what made it possible for aside to survive what had been a long rebellion already by an uprising and rebel groups in syria, and russia is otherwise occupied. there was a moment to seize by rebel groups and an understanding, purely by bashar al-assad himself and his allies, that it was over.

>> general, of course, we have heard that power abhors a vacuum, what you make of the new vacuum that has been created in a matter of days, weeks in syria, and what concerns you the most about it? what are the gravest dangers ahead? >> professionally it's interesting to watch a major military regime dissolve, come apart, go from ice to water in an instant. in this case, nine days, these rebel groups managed somehow to pull together kurds, islamists, all in a coalition to bring down the government. obviously, as we all know, part of it was shattering hezbollah fighters. the idf got the cease-fire based on their tactical ferocity. hamas had been largely destroyed.

the houthis have pulled back in , their aggression somewhat in the south. iran is now aware that the israeli air force with f-35 aircraft and standoff weapons, can go after their nuclear structure after their leadership. finally, obviously, the russians, putin is over his skis now and his country is a mess. he has had massive casualties. he will try to hang onto the naval and air base they have in syria, but nothing else will work for him. underlying all of this, we should not forget is assad was a monster. 50 three-year regime, enslaved the syrian people, and destroy the country economically. we will see where it goes. so far, we have reason to

believe peace may be possible in a galactic weight in the middle east. >> well, let us for the syrian people, it's always interesting when i have spoken with people in the intel community that have gone in and out of damascus, they always talk about their love for the syrian people. and the kindness of the syrian people. i have heard this from one intel officer after another. they have always been surprised by the massive disconnect between the syrian people and the brutal government that runs it. let's hope for the syrian people that things can get better. so, professor, we can talk about the weakness of aside, the weakness of iran, but really it all goes back to the weakness of russia.

we have here the world's second strongest military that has been ravaged over the past few years by war in ukraine as the general said, undertaking this massive casualties. even having to call in the north koreans for support. now, economic woes with the ruble falling, and on top of that, their client state in the middle east, which actually afforded them the opportunity to get in the middle east for the first time since 1973, now, gone. what is the impact for vladimir putin and russia? >> first, i want to underscore mac what a day of revelation this is. anytime someone like assad falls, it was a brutal, barbaric dictator and people are saying it's gonna get worse, it's hard to imagine it will get worse.

second, i think about this day and time, with tragedy too. when i was ambassador in russia, working for president obama, we tried to work with the russians to bring about the very events we are looking at. we talked about where assad might go? and the fact that putin decided not to go along with the international community and to double down on this guy and bring his air force in in 2015, this is a decade of blood in syria that is on putin's hands. therefore, third, it's a good day for anybody who is opposition to vladimir putin including first and foremost the ukrainians, the russian opposition. he looks weak and t double down on a dictator and he lost. that's a powerful message, especially for the ukrainians, but i hope for venezuela, i hope for belarus as well. >> let's talk about the uncertainty this creates.

yes, for russia but also for iran. the middle east has undergone so much to mall since october 7, and israel is in a position of strength when it looks to its adversaries, its proxies have been weekend. >> that is right and netanyahu, that's what he was taking credit for over the weekend was look at what he has been able to orchestrate. he disconnected the iranian axis that went through syria into hezbollah. you have three subsets right now of threat actors, iran and a weakened position, potentially on the edge itself. you have russia which is at a strategic disadvantage at ukraine. hezbollah has been completely dismantled. aside falls. you see israeli airstrikes the last 24 hours going after missile depots and things like that. is grieved instability. it goes to the golan heights. the roots of that name, he leads

hgps was part of al qaeda's movement into syria 10 years ago. he was not even seen a public without a mask 10 years ago and now walking into damascus as the leader, there will be uncertainty and wealth they tried to point to the telefon for example, we need to look towards libya with what happened there with many different factions. can anyone bring together order and will it create vacuums where extremist group can move back in? >> kim, if you can, try to help us understand, sort through all of the moving pieces here. one of the things that surprised me as the rebels were moving towards damascus was the fact that so many sunni, arab neighbors, who actually are allies of the united states now and allies with israel were concerned about the fall of

aside. that may not make a lot of sense to americans, but can you explain what israel and our sunni allied neighbors of israel are thinking right now and what they are most concerned about? >> that is a great question. first, i want to remind you there was a period when sunni regimes were looking forward to the downfall of bashar al- assad including saudi arabia which was the first country to suggest to the united states and secretary of state hillary clinton that the should have armed the rebels and it took the u.s. by surprise in 2012 as early as 2012. qatar and saudi arabia were at the forefront of trying to bring down or supporting the effort to bring down bashar al- assad and eventually resigned themselves to the fact it was not going to happen after the intervention of russian in

2015. aside created a lot of problems for a lot of people around him including for the u.s. i want to underscore something that mike said which is it's hard to imagine things can get work for syria and for the united states. let's remember that bashar al- assad is the man who helped jihadi's cross from syria into iraq. coming from all over the world cross into iraq to make life difficult, and that's an understatement, for american troops after 2003. it was his continued hold on power after the rebellion started the cost the refugee crisis which bedeviled the politics of europe and to the rise of populism in europe and you could argue eventually set the stage for brexit. eventually, and the other point also is bashar al-assad, hezbollah, iran growing stronger in syria and overseeing a terrible trade of

drugs. that is something that arab countries in the neighborhood were struggling to deal with, and so they tried to normalize with aside to get concessions from him for their own security whether saudi arabia or others. that did not pay off. now, they have to do with the fact that you are going to possibly see a power vacuum in syria. countries like the united arab emirates are not going to be happy about possibly ruling alone or in transition government with others into damascus. there is this fear of islamist group taking power in the region. israel, for a long time believed that the assad regime suited their interests because they kept the border with israel quiet, except eventually bashar al-assad empowered and enabled

iran and hezbollah on the eastern flank of israel. from my sources in europe the last few weeks, around mid- october, i heard the israelis at change their assessment of aside and he was now seen as the worst possible double they could have, and they were ready to see something different in damascus, and they can mitigate that with airstrikes as we have seen the last few days. i think it's very important at this moment, to focus on the joy of syrians. huge relief in syria and lebanon, my country, which was occupied for 30 years but the syrian regime until 2005 where this regime ordered the assassination of many of our leaders and imprisoned many of our people. we should focus on that moment of joy, and help the syrians go through this transition. not be fatalistic about the fact it will be a disaster, divided country, or challenges

is too long. syrians have waited for this moment for 13 years and they looked at the example of iraq and the example of libya and tunisia. i think they learned some lessons and we should support them and ask regional countries not to bring their rivalry to play out on syrian territory again. >> and, general, would love to ask you how following up with what kim said, how we as a country can best do that. also ask you what this administration, the biden administration, and the incoming trump administration, what policies they should pursue regarding iran considering that iran is in a weaker state, probably than any time since the 1979 revolution? >> yeah, i agree. we ought to take into account, there's been discussion of biden , the policy to president elect

trump. in the last 48 hours, the u.s. air force hammered isis locations throughout syria. more than 75 strikes, they used p-52's, heavy bombers. we have clearly intervened to try to protect u.s. national interest. the other thing to take into account is it goes right back to shia versus sunni where turkey, sunni nation has been an enemy of aside. 15% of the country is under a shiite offshoot. receiving the struggle continue between the persians and the sunni arabs. finally, i think the u.s. is actually played a skillful role. there is no room on the ground for u.s. military intervention, clearly. the idf deserves our support.

i think we ought to acknowledge in the background, we have the trump bow wave of influence where the idf is emboldened, and powered by trump's public statement and support for hammering hamas and hezbollah. we will see but we ought to be pretty optimistic. it's a glorious day for the syrians and we ought to rejoice with them. >> all right, former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfall. retired four-star army general barry mccaffrey, and nbc news national security analyst clint watson writer at the atlantic and financial times, kim ghattas. thank you all very much for being on this morning and we want to mention kim's book entitled black wave, saudi arabia, iran, and the forty- year rivalry that unraveled culture, religion, and collective memory in the middle

east. it is available right now. coming up. president elect trump says he cannot guarantee tariffs will not raise prices for american consumers. we will play for you the comments from his wide-ranging interview with "meet the press" moderator kristen welker. appeals court rejects tiktok's bid to strike down a law that requires the app chinese owner to sell the company. cnbc andrew ross sorkin will break that down and what it could mean for the social media platform. also ahead, the man hung continuing for the gunman responsible for killing the ceo of unitedhealthcare. we will have the latest on the investigation and the new photos of a person of interest. "morning joe" will be right back. back.

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jerome powell said he would leave his post even if you ask him to. what you try to replace him? >> i don't think so. if i told him to he would, if i asked him he probably wouldn't but if i told him he would. >> you don't have plans to do that. >> no, i don't. >> president elect trump telling kristen welker he doesn't plan to fire fed chair jerome powell. trump was also asked about how his tariff policies might impact prices for american consumers. take a look. >> can you guarantee american families will not pay more? >> i can't guarantee anything. i cannot guarantee tomorrow but i can say that if you look at my pre-covid, we had the greatest economy in the history of the country and i had a lot of tariffs with different countries but in particular china. we took in hundreds of billions

of dollars and we had no inflation. >> the coanchor of squawk box andrew ross sorkin and senior business analyst and host of the 11th hour, stephanie ruhle. andrew, i am curious of what you're hearing from o street and trumps economic advisers. what i hear on the inside regarding for instance mass deportations. a lot of what he is saying is opening line negotiations with democrats. he wants to focus on the criminals. the violent criminals. on tariffs, i am wondering what you are hearing economically. there's all this talk of tariffs and it would cripple the economy. is their belief on wall street that that is is opening bargaining position with foreign countries? or do they believe he will go through with these massive crippling tariffs? >> no.

i am hearing the same things and what we have been talking about through the campaign and beyond which is the expectation is wall street believes that most of the business community leaves it will be used as a negotiating tool. if you tell people that they are just a negotiating tool and not more than that, how much leverage do you have as a negotiator? i think right now, most of the business world thinks that's how they will be used in the question is how far president elect trump will get when it comes to trying to persuade mexico and canada and china of some of his priorities. the other question is, how many of those priorities will be, quote, economic priorities versus maybe other priorities around immigration and the like. fentanyl and the like. there will be a real push and pull here going on but the truth is, if the tariffs were going to be as bad as some of

the worst folks -- not worst folks, but the worst predictions have been made, the markets would be in a different place than they are today. >> i will ask what you are hearing from wall street insiders, business insiders, attached to the trump inner circle on tariffs. are these negotiating tactics or are we really going to see massive crippling tariffs that would hurt american consumers? >> i do not think from what i am hearing from my sources that we will have blanket tariffs. one of the reason trump loves tariffs, their the one thing he can do that he doesn't need congressional approval. it is the way to choose winners and losers. people are saying why are these business leaders seeking him, justin trudeau ran down there, it's because trump can't decide who is going to face tariffs,

but more importantly, here are the exceptions. he has this period of time where everybody will do their dog and pony show in table get to make these decisions. i don't see him making blanket changes and here is why. the economy is doing very well. it's why he answer to kristen welker no, he's not going to look to get rid of jerome powell. that could change and suddenly if things were different but the economy is doing very well. he also said before covid he presided over the greatest economy ever, he did not. he inherited barack obama's very strong economy, and that was a good thing. what came out of covid is we faced extraordinary inflation as did the rest of the world and we had a strong economic recovery. i do not see trump making massive changes because things are going very well. >> that same principle would apply with the idea of his deportation plans. do business leaders want, don't do that because she'll take away from our workforce.

trump yesterday suggested he would and would try to overwrite birthright citizenship. switching gears, tiktok, over the weekend, the ban was upheld and it will be taken out of commission in the u.s. if it's not sold by the middle of january. is this really going to happen? >> i don't believe it will happen and kristen welker as the future president. what are you going to do about this tiktok? he said i did great with tiktok during the election. i have a tiktok guy on my campaign, jackie, he was great. most likely we will see a change of ownership. a restructuring but tiktok, given the influence it has here, it is jarring and people are panicking, but i cannot imagine we are going to not have tiktok in the united states but we will find out. >> interesting. >> and it could turn out to be

an interesting negotiating point. we talk out trump will use tariffs, this could be a negotiating point which is to say he could go to the chinese and say i will let this continue in some capacity or let you sell it or do something and this is how we will get there. when you look at the date and when he will be inaugurated, there could be appeared of time where it looks like this will not be on platforms like apple and google. that means apple will work but it can't be updated. there will be an interesting window where there will be a lot of headlines around what will happen next and we should look at that in the next 2.5 weeks into january. >> new york city police are searching for the man suspected of killing unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson. nbc news correspondent sam brock has the latest. >> reporter: with a quickly expanding manhunt still underway this morning --

>> the net is tightening and we will bring this person to justice. >> reporter: police released two new photos of a person of interest, wanted for questioning in the murder of unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson. one shows a man wearing a black hooded jacket and surgical mask in the backseat of a taxi. the other, the man on the sidewalk, through the car window. police say they are the same taxi he took to the george washington bridge bus terminal shortly after the murder where the nypd said that video of the man entering the bus center wednesday morning but not leaving. >> we have reason to believe the person in question has left new york city. >> reporter: investigators coming central park over the weekend with nypd's elite scuba dive team scouring the lake. for the firearm used in the murder. after a great -- gray backpack was recovered the police

believe belong to the gunman. sources say jacket was found inside although it's unclear if it was the same one by the shooter and two sources say investigators for monopoly money. >> you look at it, some purpose of that? why monopoly money? >> reporter: detectives say dna evidence is being processed. as for the potential the shooter took a bus out of town, nypd says they don't know which one he may aborted. some of many destinations listed on the website include boston, buffalo, philadelphia, and washington, d.c. in the wake of the murder, backlash against the insurance industry. >> i don't think anyone should feel bad. >> reporter: from a shooter look-alike contest to critical comments online as unitedhealthcare headquarters is surrounded by temporary fencing and a police trailer. the company says they are partnering with local law enforcement to ensure a safe work environment and reinforced security. >> oh, my gosh. >> andrew, i am curious. how jarring has this assassination

and the staggering response to it, the grotesque response online to this assassination, how much has this shaken business leaders and especially people in the insurance industry? >> the last 72 hours over the weekend, what's called the protection industry has just been on alert. you cannot find extra security guards. we are hearing of folks who are being hired as we speak, literally to shadow different folks in various industries. the idea that it was targeted and we -- it was targeted as a result of what they did for a living and, as you said, i want to say that commentary and disgusting nature of folks who rationalize this is a rebuke to

the health insurance industry, there's lots of problems with the health insurance industry that should be raised but i do not think violence of any sort should be the reason we are having discussion. we should have a discussion but this should not be the case and to see what's happening online and elsewhere raises all sorts of questions and nerves about whether there will be more violence. >> joe, just yesterday music industry newsletter, the author put out a piece, deer and people are angry. who was next? could be music industry executives? we are tired of ticket prices at concerts and were tired of small artists not getting the right play on spotify. it is upsetting. you can be very upset about the health care industry in this country and how poorly the american people are treated and hope that in your right hand in your left hand, extreme violence and gunning someone down two blocks from here at 7:00 a.m. is not acceptable.

this movement after of who is next, corporate america, we are done with you. a look-alike contest for the shooter in new york city? that is crazy and everyone should be upset about all these issues. >> i am especially stricken by what's happening in social media, stephanie, and this isn't the only case. if the tide turns for someone, social media becomes a dangerous place that can trigger the wrong personality to do the wrong thing, and yet, it seems to be the wild west and killing of the ceo was an example of, i think, the tremendous danger that social media promulgates every day, 24 hours a day. especially x. >> let's be specific. it is x. >> threads. blue sky not looking that blue.

>> here is the problem and you talk to parents and they understand this because their children are caught in this. first of all, a lack of moderation, i would say especially on x but a lack of moderation, hate speech allowed. most importantly and most damning leave for these big tech companies, algorithms that deliberately inflame, algorithms that deliberately enrage and algorithms that deliberately target young teenaged girls and boys and send them spiraling. again, i have been saying this for a decade. i do not understand why silicon valley is somehow allowed to be the wild-wild west and what applies to the rest of america does not apply to them.

it is still the case. >> it is still the case but they are fat lobbying dollars in washington. >> andrew? >> it is staggering and the sort of remarkable shift even the last year or two towards a lot of these social media sites , trying to go the other way which is to say there was a time when they were down ranking in the algorithms, certain types of speech, and there's been a remarkable pushback, rebuke even this election may represent that, folks saying we went to see everything. we went to see everything and everything can be dangerous. everything can be scary, and we have to figure out where the lines are. the fact we have not begun a meaningful conversation, we talk about having the conversation, there's been talk for more than a decade, but it's never -- the rubber has

never met the road and maybe, if this moment does anything, maybe it will create that conversation. i wish it wasn't under these circumstances. >> jonathan lemire, people say they're talking about drawing lines and talking about having standards. it's the most horrible thing ever. how dare they travel on first amendment rights online. that is bs. the fcc does of a television ever cable. the "new york times" can't print whatever it wants to print because if they do they get sued. again, we are not saying let's trample first amendment rights. all i have been saying for a long time is make them live by the same rules that everybody else lives by. what it's on the "new york times", washington post, wall street journal, financial times, their pages, tells a different standard than what these

gazillions are making in social media. it's insanity that the government says we can trample on first amendment rights when actually you are just talking about moderating content like the law does for everybody else. >> you can protect and defend first amendment rights but you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. it's the same principle whether it's television, cable, the newspapers, there needs to be some sort of guidelines because we have seen it. it's a toxic cesspool to say the least. we talked earlier this morning about people disengaging from media right now, the parties even from social media, because they're sick of what they are seeing. it's so angry and so racist and they don't want to do that. tidying it with this shooting, what we have seen wages a tragedy and remains a mystery,

but what we have seen the anger and hate and calls for more violence coming because of it? that's a disturbing place for us in society. >> all right. cnbc andrew ross sorkin, thank you and stephanie ruhle thank you. we will watch the 11th hour weeknights at 11:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. still ahead. a new documentary looks at the corruption case against israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. examining never before seen police interrogation videos. the creators of the film, academy award-winning producer and emmy nominated director alexis bloom join us. us. woah, limu! we're in a parade. everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. and you have this dream every night?

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7 october, the world became another instrument to stay in power. >> when people serve for too

long, it gets into their head. spent the indictment. >> put israel in turmoil. >> netanyahu's is the architect of chaos. he survived in a state of war. he survives in a state of instability. he tried to kill the system. nobody is above the law. >> awhile. that's a look at the new documentary entitled the bibi files. the film delves into the corruption charges brought in 2019 against israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, featuring exclusively obtained, never before seen interrogation footage of netanyahu, his family, and his closest associates.

the documentary analyzes how netanyahu's ongoing criminal case may be impacting his decision-making and israel's military campaigns like the war against hamas in gaza. netanyahu is said to take the witness stand tomorrow for the first time in the trial on his corruption allegations. joining us the film academy award-winning lead producer alex gibney and director alexis bloom. thank you for joining us. it looks incredible. first tell us about the interrogation videos and what they reveal, perhaps people didn't know before? >> the interrogation videos are police interrogation videos that led to the indictment of netanyahu for corruption charges between 2016 and i believe 2018. what they reveal is the face behind the cultivated facade that netanyahu in particular

seems so good at projecting and what it shows is somebody who is more fearful, more scared, more desperate than he projects in the media. also it shows his wife, his son , and it shows in them and their confrontations with the police, a fundamental contempt for the rule of law which is shocking. >> tell us about the interrogation videos. i don't think they were meant to see the light of day and now you have them and with the trial beginning tomorrow, remind viewers what is at stake? >> i would see everything is at stake. netanyahu's predecessor went to jail on corruption charges that were much less than netanyahu's. this trial is an what important event for netanyahu's and he

has been trying to avoid testifying. his lawyers have been pushing it back and pushing it back, citing the war, saying the prime minister cannot testify in his own defense during a time of war. >> let's take a look at the clip that features some never before seen footage airing now, for the first time on "morning joe" , of a defensive netanyahu speaking with law enforcement officials. >> with netanyahu, nothing -- his mind more than the sound of the prison gate slammed behind his back. >> everything that he has done,

over the last five years was so focused on that sound of the gate potentially slamming behind his back. >> alex, if you could put context behind the one piece of the interrogation we saw, and tell us more of what is asked of him and what he revealed? >> the interrogation video so they are informing what would ultimately be the indictment. what is important about the film, and a number of the people that alexis interviewed when she went to israel, it's his attempt to avoid a legal reckoning that has caused all sorts of damage in the middle east, and many people in the security establishment argue is

prolonging the devastating war in gaza. >> alexis, in closing, there's a lot of debate and concern of what is happening in the middle east. what do you hope this documentary will reveal? no matter what side you are on in this, and perhaps, insight for the debates that are taking place? >> i hope for the international audience that they realize there is a robust dissent within israel. poll shows 60%, 70% of israelis do not support netanyahu, and it's important for americans and people around the world to realize that israel is not netanyahu and judaism is not netanyahu. he is a politician like any other and if it puts daylight between him and the country for the international audience, we would've done our job. >> the new documentary, the

bibi files, opens in select theaters and will be available to stream online at jolt.film on wednesday. alex gibney and alexis bloom thank you both. this looks incredible. next, look at the other stories making headlines this morning. dlines this morning. rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye: too much tear evaporation. for relief that's ♪ miebo ohh yeah ♪ remove contact lenses before using miebo. wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur. what does treating dry eye differently feel like? ♪ miebo ohh yeah ♪ for relief that feels ♪ miebo ohh yeah ♪

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one more item before we go, larry trump is stepping down as cochair of the republican national committee, she said she is weighing future options including the possibility of replacing senator marco rubio home her father-in-law selected to be the next secretary of state if rubio is confirmed, florida governor ron desantis would appoint his replacement, jonathan, fair to say lara trump has a shot at this? >> she does, her appointment at the rnc was gathering some

skepticism at first but maybe in florida, adding to the convocation, would be if the hegseth pick falls apart and trump names ron desantis for the pentagon. >> right, i didn't think about that. we will end this morning with dorothy's iconic ruby slippers featured in the wizard of oz, they are being auctioned for more than $30 million, the pair of slippers worn by judy garland, sold saturday, making the shoes the most valuable movie memorabilia ever sold at auction, the auction also included the hats that were worn by the wicked witch in the wizard of oz which sold for $2.9 million, the slippers are one of four surviving pairs worn by garland in the 1939 movie. those are some expensive shoes.

that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage in one minute. ask your doctor about farxiga. how are folks 60 and older having fun these days? family cookouts! ♪♪ playing games! ♪♪ dancing in the par... (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) now is the time to go back in time. and shine a light on the family journey that led to you. detailed dna results. inspiring family history memberships. now's the time to save at ancestry. ♪♪