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4:00 in new york. we come on the air with significant breaking news this afternoon and the story has captured the country's attention for the better part of the last six days. 26-year-old luigi mangione has been named a person of interest in the murder of united health care ceo brian thompson. at this hour, he is being held for questioning in central pennsylvania and nypd commissioner jessica tisch confirmed this afternoon that mangione was arrested on firearm charges and a number of items on him that matched the details of the gunman. >> earlier this morning, altoona, pennsylvania, members of the altoona police department arrested luigi mangione, a 26-year-old male on firearms charges. at this time, he is believed to be our person of interest in the brazen targeted murder of brian thompson, ceo of united health

care, last wednesday in mid-town manhattan. the suspect was in a mcdonald's and was recognized. responded officers questioned the suspect who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple fraudulent i.d.s, as well as a u.s. passport. upon further investigation, officers recovered a firearm on his person, as well as a suppressor, both consistent with the weapon used in the murder. also recovered was a fraudulent new jersey i.d. matching the i.d. our suspect used to check in to his new york city hostile before the shooting incident. >> mangione was eating at the mcdonald's when an employee recognized him and called the police. nypd commissioner today acknowledged that getting the surveillance footage out was key to capturing mangione. >> we must also acknowledge the instrumental role the media and the public played in this case. the images that we shared with

the public were spread far and wide and the tips we received led to the recovery of crucial evidence. we should never underestimate the power of the public to be our eyes and our ears in these investigations. >> mangione was found more than 200 miles from mid-town manhattan, where thompson was murdered. on the same day that loved ones are holding a funeral service for thompson. as for a motive, police recovered a handwritten three-page document that police are calling a manifesto and nypd confirms that mangione appeared to have ill will towards corporate america. sources telling "the new york times" that mangione wrote in the document this, quote. criticizing health care companies for putting profits above care. mangione was also found with the so-called ghost gun that is a firearm that may have been made with a 3d printer. it's where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. where he me it table is msnbc

legal analyst andrew wiseman. and also joining us is frank liguize who is back. sam brock is outside of the hotel where the shooting took place. sam, what is the latest? >> sure. >> reporter: this seemed to resolve or at least the person of interest, a long way from mid-town manhattan, about a four and a half hour drive from here to altoona. the top line, start with that. roughly after five and a half days of a manhunt and images saturating every's tv and social media channels, a mcdonald's employee in allatoona at 9:15 suspected suspicious activity and called the police and they responded and questioning the individual at happened. after some questioning, found you he had a fake i.d. that exactly matched the same name on a fake i.d. that was presented to that hostile on the upper

west side on november 24th. that is part a. part b, the firearm. the nypd here had spent hours and hours and days searching for the firearm knowing how paramount it was, the ba lisks testing and how it could be connected to the person of interest in this case, had combed through large portions of central park and did not d the firearm but earlier today we found out the person of interest, this individual had a firearm which matched the description of the one that was used in the murder which according to police today, we later found out was a ghost gun likely made or potentially made from a 3d print.printer. all of that lines up. another difficult part of this to comprehended. he has a large family and huge political and real estate footprint in the baltimore area. he has two siblings. he has dozens upon dozens of cousins and uncles in multiple

country club members and his brother is a state delegate in maryland. we are coming out with a statement later today has been said. these family members and massive presence. a random strange that pointed out to police this might be their person. mangione has not been charged with anything. we are learning much more about his background as well and dip into that slightly. an all boys s school in baltim and issued a note to the graduate saying the person that was arrested and wanting in connection with the mid-town murder was an alumnus of our school and our hearts go to to everybody everybody. es was a valedictorian. he did attend penn from 2017 to 2020 and a member of their

fraternity there and had a mast he's from penn. someone saying the very same name was a head counselor in free-legitimate studies. penn, stanford, valedictorian at his high school and seemed like a well-educated guy with a prominent family with a huge footprint in baltimore. we are six days into this manhunt and police say the incredible work they did combing upon hundreds upon hundreds of video surveillance systems and using drones and try to effort the channels of reaching the public through whatever means possible to get those images out there coming out with batches of images but the most clear picture certainly was the one from the hostile with his mask pulled down according to police because the person of interest in this case was flirting with the person at the desk so we wait to find out whether or not this is going to change in terms of the decision of person of interest to anything else but you have to imagine the search continues as we learn more

information. >> sam, do you know if the nypd is in front of him or if he is still questioned by pennsylvania authorities? >> reporter: our understanding was an hour or so go, nypd detectives and maybe it's longer than that, my timing might be off, arrived on the scene and will be assisting in that investigation. you have to imagine that is gong. then the blair county government there says that they should be updating on whether or not there is going to be any charges about a weapon, for example, possession of a weapon that could be dealt with before any other charges would be forthcoming. so there is going to be an order of operations here but our understanding is detectives were on the ground about two hours ago, hour and a half, something like that. >> frank, what i want to ask you -- i'll just ask you. wtf! is this the kind of person that this is the person that they are

looking for who is on the surveillance video shooting the ceo in the back turns out to be the person of interest in altoona, pennsylvania, tell me what the profile that sam brock just detailed in his incredible reporting says to you? >> you're right to ask, because even nypd has said. as they were combing through corporate security files on people who threatened the company and people who maybe had claims rejected. frequent flyers with regard to threats. he is not coming up. at least not yet. they will have to go back and comb through this. so we have a very bright young man with what would have been a very bright future, according to all that has been reported, but i zero in on his social media posts and also the books he has read. he is a reared.

some of these facts are coming together, for example. for example, lots of post on his x account about existential future human society, the impact of technology on the human brain, the morality and ethics of murder and whether it's ever appropriate or not. then go over to his good reads account which you'll see he is a voracious reader. books he has read this year include ted kaczynski, the uni-bomber. he concludes after reading kaczynski's writings, yes, there are circumstances where it's okay to kill someone. typically, around the issue of money and corporate greed. so we are beginning to get a picture of someone who may not have ever been denied -- probably not hurting for insurance coverage. so what we have got here is perhaps in his own mind an activist killer. the question arises, was he on

his way to kill again? why did he keep that gun? was he really interested in fleeing or getting caught? why does he have his so-called manifesto in his backpack? what was he ready for? where was he going or had he given up or wanted to get caught? if he is an activist, he'll be talking. unlikely that he'll shut up because he'll want to say why he did this. >> we are now going to bring in to our conversation my colleague nbc news national law enforcement and intelligence correspondent tom winter. sam started off with some extraordinary reporting about who the individual arrested in altoona is. luigi mangione doesn't sound like anyone that i've ever covered sitting in this chair as a suspect in a crime like this. i wonder if you can answer whether this is unique from your experienced perch. i know you have some more

reporting on what frank is talking about. jump? >> sure. a whole host of things they are looking at. they are looking at an online post investigators are to see whether or not it's, in fact, leading back to this individual, whether it's relevant in the investigation but it has a lot to do with information about ted kaczynski, believe it or not, nicole. his ideology is unique, to put it mild. this individual, i think there is -- we will look and see what the legal is process going to do here the next 12 to 24 hours and if they are the suspect. but there is an awful lot of information already and evidence that members of law enforcement have gathered that appears to draw closer and closer to this being the individual. i just think it's remarkable that an employee at a mcdonald's had the wherewithal to look up and see this person and call their local police today. it's kind of a case study or a textbook example i should say of exactly what to do in these

situations. just an incredible day. once the nypd and the d.a.'s office are able to look at all of the evidence and make sure it matches what they have been told, they arrived there a little after 3:15 eastern time today, they will be able, at that point, what we refer to as dropping papers on somebody, so will be able to bring some charges. that is where this case is at this point. >> tom winter, the employee at mcdonald's is the example of something that went right. how did a person in a fraternity with members of his family in elected government not look up at what -- you described it as one of the most brazen assassinations on the streets of new york city in decades. why did the employee at mcdonald's see him before his family and friends did? >> oh, boy, that is a big question! nicole, reporters, you can bet are gathering around the houses of the relevant parties that are involved here to ask those questions and certainly, i would think, if it was my relative or

a iend of mine that i would be able to point that person out. they do have two pictures in the clear. this is from the taxi that he used to get up to the george washington bridge according to the nypd. this person of interest. so we have to see where all of that goes. there will be a lot of reporting done in the next couple of days. i'm probably not in the same league as frank on this and many other issues but as far as charging somebody or the justice department or the fbi but i think is well down the road before we have that discussion. >> andrea wiseman, you thoughts on all of it. >> well -- the fbi when things break, the one thing you don't know the whole story yet, that is like for sure. no question this is a tragedy and the issue is what to make of this beyond that. i immediately started thinking given the age and what we have just heard about mental health issues that may not be an issue.

i'm just saying where i'm thinking about it, especially when you have, as frank said, odd behavior afterwards, include odd behavior beforehand like going to the starbucks and being careful and then not being careful and having all of this information, all that is incriminating evidence assuming this is the person that the police are i -- either wanting get caught or some mental health issues. i think the follow-up thought i had was the one you had with respect to the family members and friends. given how that this person was not that careful, it's great that he is caught but where was the nypd? this took quite a long time when, you know, we are sitting here at a studio that is blocks from where this happened and the idea that it took, you know,

five days to find him when the person was not being that careful. >> or running very far. you could be halfway around the world in six days. >> exactly. the information he his passport with him and you're thinking how did this person not get caught sooner when i get the idea -- sort of broad speculation is this somebody who is like a professional hit man and then you hear details that are like, of course, not, because of all sorts of aspects of how sort of sloppily this was done and it sort of makes you realize this was sort of old-fashioned detective work in some ways which there was a wanted poster and somebody very clever and smart, you know, and also a good citizen, called it in. but i think it sort of remain to be seen on the big picture what do you make of this? is this something that is inspired by people who think this you can take the law into their own hands?

people who resort to violence without it being condemned, you know, large perspective and in a climate. it could be a much more individual story. i sort of end with it is a tragedy on a human scale. i think the reaction of some to not many, but some that view this as not a tragedy is, to me, the one take home that i think all of us can which, which is we are living in a time where there isn't a consensus when something like this happens, that this is a tragedy and it should be prevented. >> frank, what andrew is talking about is something we have not covered here and a social media dynamic. i'll tell the viewers about it. a "the new york times" report on it. alex goldenberg junior adviser of the network and tracks online threats said the internet

rhetoric left experts pretty disturbed by the glorification of murder of brian thompson. the institute found of the top ten most engaged post on x about the shooting on wednesday, six either expressed explicit or implicit support for the killing or denigrated the victim. perpetrators of extreme violence become memes themselves. what is disturbing about this is it's main street. this is like a society sickness and whatever your views on your health care or health care, in general, you are likely justified to be frustrated or angry but there is a line that before this case, i'm not sure has ever been crossed where no one would advocate for in advance of, or celebrate in the aftermath of an assassination of

a company executive. what do you do about this? >> you know, this idea of numbness and even acceptance of violence, incivility, as an answer to society's problems, has taken hold. i was taken aback by the response on social media. people i know on social media, people who follow me on social media, hey, good, don't live your life like -- so that people are happy when you're murdered. i responded to someone on social media saying, don't live your life so that you are happy when someone is murdered. we have got to check ourselves here. yes, is it a wake-up call? i can tell you my colleagues in corporate security around the country are fearful of copycats on this and it's an eye opener for them. many ceo rejected security saying i think i need security now. it's an eye opener for law enforcement, ceos and corporate security but really as a society

that, of course, people are roundly upset with their insurance coverage. health care insurance is largely broken in our country but the way to fix it is not by murdering somebody. >> sam brock, tom winter, thank you for your extraordinary reporting on this. frank, thank you for your wisdom and insights on this. really grateful to get to talk to all of you. andrew sticks with me. switching gears when we come back. his first sit-down interview since winning the election, donald trump is vowing to quickly free the january 6th rioters -- i'm going to sneeze -- lashing out at the investigators into the january 6th attack with a knowing nod who his own incoming justice department as to what he would like them to really do to them. also in that interview, donald trump announcing an intentional to expand his deportation plan, not just deporting millions of people here in this country illegally, but also citizens, people who were born here in the united

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please donate now. [music playing] threat directly at the nine officials who did more than nearly anyone else to investigate and uncover his criminal culpability in an active domestic terrorism against the united states capitol. he is doing in a way that would make any mob boss proud.

in an interview with nbc's kristen welker, trump vowed to flip the justice system upside down. he called jack smith corrupt but claimed he would leave any decision to investigate to his attorney general which would be pam bondi if she is confirmed by the snat. the biggest target of trump's wrath in this interview, though, was the members of the january 6th select committee themselves. take a listen. >> now listen. this was a committee, a big deal. they lied and what did they do? they deleted and destroyed a whole year and a half worth of testimony. do you know that i i can't get -- i think those people admitted a major crime. >> sir? >> and cheney was behind it and so was benny thompson and everybody on that committee. >> we are going to -- >> for what they did. >> yeah. >> honestly, they should go to

jail. >> so you think liz cheney should go to jail? >> for what they did. >> everyone on the committee you think should go to jail? >> i think anybody that voted -- >> are you going to direct your fbi director and attorney general to send them to jail? >> not at all. i think they will have to look at that but i'm going to focus on drill, baby, drill. >> when you carry that, it carries weight. you tapped these people to lead the justice department and fbi. >> they can do whatever they want. >> they can do whatever they want. even if what he wants, what the boss wants, made crystal clears in interviews like that. not to mention the crimes that they committed. the allegation that they, quote, deleted and destroyed a whole eef and a half -- he doesn't finish the sentence -- but we assume is testimony. is unfounded. worth noting his pick for fbi and attorney general are completely aligned with donald

trump on this and said repeatedly, they, too, would like to go after critics of donald trump. >> when republicans take back the white house and we will because the deep state last term for president trump they were hiding in the shadows but now they have a spotlight on them and they can all be investigated. >> we will go out and find the conspirators not just in government but in the media. we are coming after the people in the media who lied with american sis who helped joe biden rig presidential elections. we are coming after you. whether it's criminally or civilly, we are figure itting out but, yeah, we are putting you all on notice. >> members of the january 6th committee now in team trump's cross-hairs show no signs of backing down from the work they did and investigating the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. in a statement, liz cheney says this, quote.

in a post titled bring on it, donald, former gop congressman adam kinzinger writes this, quote.

joining our conversation former lead investigator for the january 6th select committee tim hafee and msnbc political analyst claire mccass cal and andrew weissmann. >> it doesn't become true by repeating it again and again.

in this country, we have hopefully still a rule of law and facts matter and as mr. kinzinger and ms. cheney said there is nothing to substantiate any allegation of misconduct by the january 6th committee. the narrative that stuff was destroyed or hidden is just unfounded. everl single interview in its entirety but for a handful of national security interviews which were in the possession of the white house and still exist, were made public and remain available. there is just nothing there, nicole. while there may be investigations and questions asked, the underlying facts have to be present for there to be a legal consequence and they just don't exist here just like they have not ever existed in the big lie of election fraud. >> can i play -- actually, let me play what adam kinzinger had

to say on cnn. i want to step back and say even trump isn't alleging that any crimes were committed so i want to be careful in repeating the language of the trump side about throwing people in jail. in this country, so far, you don't go jail unless you're charged with a crime and convicted of the crime by a jury of your peers. so, again, i don't want to just repeat what they are saying over and over again. but let me play adam kinzinger on whether or not the committee members will even be prosecuted. >> are you worried that donald trump will try to put you in jail? >> no. i have absolutely no worries about this. physician off, the executive branching can't go after the legislative branch because we embarrassed him and not a sin or against the law. when we talk about him throwing the hamburger and ketchup on the wall, nothing illegal about him. the fellow republicans spoke to him. look.

he is all put hurt right now because he was embarrassed. he is not going to come after us and i'm not worried about it at all. >> all right. >> in the tlest. >> at least. >> tim, i feel like we are already making this slide, even adopting the conversations and parameters whether he can throw people in jail, again, as of today, what is it? december 9th. you can't simply throw people in jail. so i wonder what your thoughts are about the rhetoric, itself. >> yeah. i think the rhetoric is meant to be intimidating. it is just like the big lie, again, where the facts and the underlying potential justification or consequence aren't really the point, nicole. the point is intimidation or the point is politicized rhetoric which is in a sort of muscle flex without foundation and that is dangerous. you and i have talked on this program again and again about how rhetoric is taken seriously, how things that might be meant as exaggeration or rhetoric are

taken literally by individuals in this country. we see again and again how that manifests sometimes very dangerously in violence. so it's completely irresponsible to make allegations that there was misconduct or that there is criminal violations without being able to substantiate that with evidence. there is no such evidence here and that makes this rhetoric particularly irresponsible. >> i guess what i'm getting at, tim, is that we can't control what trump is going to say in an interview. but i do think it is a moment where we should be very cognizant of our own sliding and our owner sliding here would be to come on the air and cover trump saying he is going to throw people in jail. we do not live in that country yet. and it is not inevitable that we ever live in that country. but i do think when trump talks about prosecuting doj, using doj to prosecute his enemies, that, in and of itself, is an extraordinary departure from anything that has ever come before it. >> exactly right.

the fact that we are even having this conversation where a duly recognized committee of the united states house of representatives gathering facts and simply putting forth to the american people the facts that they have uncovered could be alleged to have been somehow nefariously criminal, the fact the threshold fact that we are having this conversation is shocking. the other point i feel like i keep making here is that when -- he puts forth resources or his attorney general or fbi director put forth resources to investigate things like this, those are resources that are not being deployed to really serious criminal justice challenges. right? it's a finite pie, nicole, where if federal prosecutors are investigating x, that means they are not investigating why. so all of this attention that may go to investigating these -- again, completely baseless theories of obstruction of justice or nefarious conduct,

that means that those people and those same resources are not going to national security to fentanyl trafficking to child exploitation to fraud to the very pressing things the fbi and justice department deal with every y. i fear there will be not be enough resources to get to this if there are baseless investigations. >> i have to sneak in a break. >. wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses let's take a look at those scenarios. j.p. morgan wealth management has advisors in chase branches and tools, like wealth plan to keep you on track. when you're planning for it all... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management.

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i can't say i'm thrilled with him. he invaded my home. i'm suing the country over it. he invaded mar-a-lago. i'm very unhappy with the things he has done. and crime is at an all-time high. migrants are pouring into the country that are from prisons and from mental institutions as we have discussed. i can't say i'm thrilled. i don't want to say. i don't want to -- again, i don't want to be joe biden and give you an answer and then do the exact answer. >> we will talk about that. >> i'm not going to do that. what i can say i certainly cannot. happy with him. >> that is trump on christopher wray. andrew? >> that is sort of the issue of like laying the groundwork saying that congress has why it's a ten-year term can be -- in his case the second time he will have done that. >> by him. >> by him, exactly, without any

cause in trying to sort of manufacture it. senator grassley has now sort of aided that effort with a new letter sort of asking the fbi director to resign. i have to say all of this talk of, like, we are going to bring these cases, we are going to bring these criminal cases and civil cases and go to court. donald trump has learned that you know what? court cases when you try to bring court cases so say there is fraud in the election, he lost all of them. court not a place because that is a place where facts and law still matter. maybe that will change going forward but rightly now a place he can lose and facts can come out. the idea of saying i'm going to -- or i think it should be appropriate to bring a criminal case against january 6th committee members or jack smith and his team, he spent years trying to avoid a criminal trial. that is going to put the spotlight back on exactly what he has sought not to have the spotlight be, so that the idea

of -- i think this is going to be a lot of rhetoric but he could end ub shooting himself in the foot. once there is a criminal or civil case on this area it is out of his control and it will be a court proceeding and could have what we were chatting about, you could have a john durp durham where somebody brought a close and is it exploded spectacularly but unlike things that didn't capture enormous public attention, if there are these cases on the january 6th committee and did they engage in wrongdoing, that is not going to be something that donald trump or the justice department is going to have sort of unfettered control over that narrative. better for trump to just continue with his rhetoric, which is completely absent of any facts to support it than going to court. i see why adam kinzinger is saying i highly doubt this is going to happen and not a forum conducive to this. better keep on speaking publicly and hope as tim said, it

intimidates people. a court case is not a great forum for an autocrat who just wants to make up the facts as they go along. >> claire, again, though, with trump, there is this language that is dangerous just as a rah torial device. to say if christopher wray, he invaded my home and invaded mar-a-lago and i'm seeing the country over this. trump went there a dozen times to regain control of national defense information. state secrets, including nuclear secrets. the country decided that that is the guy that will have them again but, at the time that the fbi was trying to repossess them, he didn't have a right to have those materials. so to accuse christopher wray of, again, quote, invading my home, is a dangerous lie. >> well, you know, how many thousands has he told? and, yet, the country elected

him. you know, i saw the movie "the apprentice." ." and cold me what his strategy is. just three things. it's simple. first, always attack. second, lie whenever you need to. and, third, never admit you're wrong! if you look at what he is doing now, what he did in that interview, that is exactly what he did. he tried to turn every question that was asked of him in to an attack on someone else. he lies when he needed to. he refused to admit that he was wrong about anything. so ho-hum, on we go. and, you know, both my colleagues are right and both -- all three of us have spent many, many hours in a courtroom. and, frankly, i kind of like adam kinzinger's view of this. bring it, bring it.

i'm not saying he can't disrupt people's lives. to ruin a life of a prosecutor without bringing charges is real. that is real. but having said that, whether it is a civil case or a criminal case, donald trump and the lawyers who surround him, no matter how lame they might be, they know that the constitution says people get a jury trial, especially in a criminal case, and a criminal trial, the jury has to agree unanimously beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was committed. you don't do that without evidence. you don't. prosecutors, frankly, don't bring cases with no evidence. so a lot of this is, as adam -- it's just howling. it's howling. and part of me kind of thinks he goes down this road because then his administration will grind in to a nonproductive place in terms of any of the things he has promised. it will be like the first two

years last time. said he would build a wall and didn't build a wall.for it and mexico didn't pay for it. let's wait and see. i have a feeling it will be a repeat. >> no one is going anywhere and much more on the other side of the break. ng anywhere and much more on the other side of the break. i've been worn by celebrities, athletes, and world leaders. but i've always felt most comfortable up here, with the folks that made me who i am. i'm right at home, out here on the land. and i'm in my lane on the shoulder of the interstate. because this is where i come from. i've been showing up here for nearly 200 years. and i can't wait to see what's next.

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tim, again, articulate what jack smith had access to that you did not. what material does liz cheney hunger for the public to see. >> we gathered every we had to the special counsel's office upon the completion of the select committee's work. then the special counsel's team went beyond the evidence that we were able to develop about the attempt to disrupt the official

proceeding, because he had a very powerful tool that the select committee and congressional committee doesn't have and that is the grand jury. when a witness goes into a congressional committee and he says, i'm not going to give you that information because it's covered by a privilege, an executive privilege, for example, that is really almost toothless for the committee to try to enforce. you have to go through a civil justice process which takes weeks and months. in a criminal case, if it's a grand jury witness who says i'm not going to answer that question, mr. special counsel, because it's privileged, special counsel says, let's go see the judge. he goes right upstairs to the chief judge who supervises the grand jury who rules. then in a couple of days, if there is an appeal, it goes to the court of appeals on an emergency motion to stay and the court of appeals rules so jack smith was able to push through privilege assertions by people like mike pence and potentially mark meadows, really significant

witnesses who did not speak to the select committee and develop additional evidence which resulted in a criminal indictment. miss cheney, i think, is correctly calling for the transparency of all of that evidence. i think it will like mirror the story that the select committee told but with additional detail and more corroboration for that narrative of a multiintentional plan led by the former president to disrupt the joint session. >> it comes down who is jack smith and does jack smith learn the lessons respectfully of the mueller report which was so unclear that no one had a cess of trump's brazen six instances of criminal obstruction of justice. >> yeah. and he also has an advantage. not just from a learning from the past, but with bob mueller, he was thinking he had to deal with the fact that this could be prosecuted later. here, that is not something that really seems anything that is going to happen. he is going to issue a report

and it's very clear that merrick garland will make it public. he has said that and done it with respect to other reports, with respect to president biden. the things that will not be in there, though, are grand jury information. but if that witness has also talked to the fbi, apart from the grand jury, that could be in there, so there could be a lot more details. the other thing that i'm very looking at is something we did. i'm getting a lot of questions how do you make sure donald trump doesn't, himself, get rid of all of this evidence? one way to deal with is that you file as much as you can with the court. that's what we did. and that is a way of putting all of this evidence in to -- >> a record? >> exactly. in to the hands of judiciary that is not the executive branch. the president cannot destroy it at that point. if he was intending to do that. so there is a way to preserve it. >> it's bat crazy that we are

talking about what to do with evidence from a federal investigation so that the incoming president doesn't destroy it. >> i've lived through that and to me, this is, you know, history repeating itself. >> insane. i have to sneak in a break and give claire mccaskill the last word on the other side.

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which makes it easier for you to hire them. visit indeed.com/hire claire, you're getting at one of the tensions in this area for trump, himself, because let's face it, he can pick who he wants and he can direct them to do whatever he wants.

i mean, last time we know that he successfully harassed and tried to prosecute over a dozen of his political enemies. the pressure, though, that i think you're getting at it comes at a cost. it comes at a cost to bringing crime -- he also lied in that interview with kristen welker about crime tistics. he diluted his supporters to think the highest levels. they are not but certainly can't go up under him. what do you think he'll end up doing with the fbi? >> well, first, he is going to lie about whether crime goes up or down. he is just going to start lying and saying that crime is going down. he'll start saying crime has gone down on the day after he has taken the oath because the criminals are afraid of him and they will not commit crimes any more. kash patel is another issue. and so is pam bondi. you know, they are lawyers. they do understand how the law

works. and so it will be interesting. they are there because they will bend to his will. but at what point does he forcing them to do things ends up hurting him more than helping him? because, i mean, he may think he has a mandate, but we know he didn't get the majority of the votes in this country. he got less than 50%. and we know there are a lot of people who voted for him who voted for him for reasons that had nothing to do with his integrity or nothing to do with some of the stuff he has promised to do in terms of retribution. they don't want retribution. they want the price of goods to come down. they want to be able to afford to buy a home and get medicine they can afford. if he spends all of his time on this crap, it's really going to hurt him politically and i think he'll get a lot of push-back from some of the people around him that have some political sense. we will see. >> we will see. famous last words, right? thank you for spending the hour

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your promise to end birth right citizenship, is that still happening >> yes. >> we have to end it. only country that has it. the only country that has it. do you know, if somebody sets just a foot, one foot, you don't need two on our land, congratulations you are now a citizen of the united states of america. yes. we are going to end that. it is ridiculous. hi, again, it is now 5:00 in new york. all persons born our naturalized in the united states and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are

citizens of the united states. that is what the 14th amendment says. that is what donald trump wants to undo. get rid of, dismantle to fulfill his campaign promise of a massive, unprecedented deportation plan. and, immigration crack down by his telling. questions aside for a nano second. trump is lying in service of cruelty towards immigrants according to a review by the library of congress. 30 nations provide birthright citizenship, canada, brazil, we are not a quote only country that does this" trump made those comments when speaking with kristen welker in his first sit down interview since the election. did not stop at eliminating birth right citizenship >> let me ask you about another group of people. the estimated four million families that have mixed immigration status, talking about parents who might be here illegally but the kids are here

legally, your border czar. >> talking about separation? >> two aspects. they said deported together. >> you keep the -- well, i don't want to be breaking up families so the only way you don't break up the family is you keep them together and send them all back. >> even kids who are here legally? >> well, what you are going to do if they want to stay with their father. we have to have rules and regulations. you can always find out some does not work that does not work. >> you know you can find a line in the constitution that it breaks. so, the grand plan of deporting the 11 million people here in the country illegally now, also, means, according to donald trump illegally deporting u.s. citizens as well. writing this in "the washington post,." the options for the administration are simple. you somehow deport u.s. citizens, too or you separate these families by sending the

parents to another country. either option is obviously fraught. not clear how it will pass legal muster. as for the later, while polls have shown the american people lean in favor of the brood conception of mass deportation, they oppose if it leads to separation of families. steven miller, who trump chose to be his deputy chief of staff for policy at the white house and was the architect of the cruel family separation during trump's first term echoed the urgency that trump is expressing. here he is yesterday on fox news. >> lindsey graham promised to get a full funding package for the board of the most significant border significant investment in american history, biggest domestic policy win in 50 years to the president's desk in january or early february. that would mean a massive increase in ice officers

working on deportation. that would mean a historic border agents, pay raise for both. full funding for military. full funding for marine operations, full funding for all of the barriers and technology you need to make sure there is north got away in this country. president trump, regardless, day one will issue a series of executive orders that seal the border shut and start the largest deportation in history. there is where we start the hour with our favorite experts and friends. back with us here at the table, political scholar and professor of princeton university is here, and joining us former under secretary of state for public diplomacy and affairs during the barack obama administration is here and tim miller is here. lee i start with you. your, we have the third time we had a chance to talk since the

election. i pinned you down with aggressive line of follow up questions but you told me you were optimistic after the election. after hearing this interview do you remain optimistic? >> reporter: i am sorry i am not hearing you nicolle. >> let's fix your audio. tim, i had a chance to interview lee a couple of times and i think the muscle memory for sort of turning to the courts and the public to draw some lines in the sand. obviously the country voted. there are some things that trump ran on, the country did not know they were getting kash patel. i would argue he was pretty front and center but immigration is not one of them. he talked immigration, played videos about immigration, mass deportation, his supporters held printed signs, mass deportation at the republican national convention. his base of support which

prevailed in the election wants immigration to change. and it is possible that they don't want this and end of birth right citizenship and mass deportation of millions and millions of people. something the country never experienced, never pulled off. where do you think, where do you think the real sort of tension is around this issue? >> look, i think that it is fair to look at donald trump and look at his first term and say he promised to build a wall, core promise, did he do it? or build a few miles and say it was the greatest wall ever. might there be a parallel like that? i happening the the answer to that is maybe. you look at the in coming administration one area where he has a team that actually knows their ways around the laws and regulations it would be immigration and steven miller and tom homan. they are serious about this. that will be the case, no not like the wall they will get

what they say. and, so, i think it is worth having a discussion and monitoring that and being honest with people about that. but the arrangement is, even if the first term there will still horrible real world consequences to this. i remember i was listening to that segment with blake, deport, you will have to deport u.s. citizens kind of as if it is a new thing. u.s. citizens were wrapped up in this during the first time. muslim ban, americans were held up in cells. a kid in texas whose brother was undocumented. they both got rounded up and francisco, a u.s. citizen was in a detention cell for three weeks before they figured out he was a u.s. citizen. that is the nature of these things, right? if you are going to empower a bunch of ice agents and sheriffs to deport people trump is right about that. some people are going to get rounded up that are not meant to be. a wife of a guy illegal or a kid. and, so, i just think that if

it is like the comedy of errors trump or the nef nefarious trump. >> don't you have to negotiate another country to give them citizenship before you hand over american citizens to -- where is he sended american citizens and where are they being deported? >> you are right, nicolle, he can not deport u.s. citizens. they will make it so harsh they will deport the parents of u.s. citizen children and say to the parents, your choice is to live without your children for the rest of their lives or to take your child to a country that they never stepped foot in even though they are a u.s. citizen child. i can not even believe this administration thinks they can

deport u.s. citizen children. you are right. just no way to do it. not allowed. it would be flatly illegal. we would be in court in a second. i think what they are talking about is being be so inhumane and forcing separation on families the truth is as we discussed before, the immigration laws allow a lot of harshness. the only reason that past presidents, democratic or republican have not gone after families with small u.s. citizen children is because they exercised, you know, some sound discretion and now, we are hearing that maybe they will go after these families. i don't doubt that they will. and force these kinds of separations on families. and, you know, to your point earlier, the american public heard about mass deportations in the abstract. i think when they see it and practice what it means u.s. citizen children being left behind from their parents potentially the military on the streets they will have a

different reaction to it. >> lee can you just, someone who spends a lot of time thinking about this and preparing to help people. -- and i take tim's point about confidence factor. every wednesday or thursday and monday would come around and there was never infrastructure week. but let's this time take them at their word there is something they are committed to doing. what does it look like? how do you move 11 million people around? are they on -- planes? trains? buses? where do you put them? who cares for them? who takes care of their health and where do they go? >> reporter: so, i think both points are hitting on are true. i think there will be more competent and more prepared this term. so, we are ready for that. we are not assuming that it will be a comedy of errors. we are assuming they will be much more prepared. having said that i don't think you can move millions and millions of people. that is why they are talking

about getting the military involve if they can deport all 11 or millions of people and break up families either way it will be harsh. but the logistics are complicated and that is why we are looking at the military. it is unfortunate that we are going to bring our military into something like this? i assume the military will not be happy about it and we will see how they are going to go about it. the logistics are complicated. to your point, what will happen, people, including children, are going to be put into conditions that are horrendous and we will have to monitor that and challenge that as well. >>ly when with you are seeing some are building or designated space for what may be a holding center, we don't know exactly what the space is, what sorts of things do you think people should not fail to imagine could be coming? >> oh, yeah. i think people plead to really

understand that this is going to be horrendous. ripping people out of communities, you know, the conditions are going to be horrendous, people are going to be sent to countries that maybe they never stepped foot in. not going to be screenings for people who may face torture or persecution. one thing we talked about, nicolle when people hear about this, it will not effect our family or anyone we know. i can not tell you how many calls i have gotten, especially during the first term, i did not know they were going to go after this person or that person, a custodian at my son's school, such a nice guy. if we are really talking about mass deportation that is what we are talking about. not just hardened criminals and national security threats we are talking about people who have been contributing to the economy, society, for a long time. or, and i think it is not just a moral issue it is going to be an economic one as well if we

are decimated whole industries. >> lee just hit on this, the truest thing that you can say about, not all trump voters but a lot of them, quote this isn't going to effect me. this isn't going to hurt me. i will not feel sad when i see this happen. and, again, let me just say, country needs borders, president barack obama deported more people than any other president in american history this has not traditionally been a right/left issue. some are talking about it border, enforced you do what lee said and you look at people as human beings and treated humanely. no one before trump contemplated the child separation, it was so bad trump reversed it. but, the idea that this is who we are. it is another thing to rumble

with >> selfish indifference borders in certain context borders on the complicity with evil. a selfish indifference borders complicity with evil. i was sitting here thinking something attributed to mark twain, history does not repeat itself but it damn sure rhymes. i don't want to move passed birthright citizenship and the border the stuff around birthright shows the issue is not really the border. >> right. >> it shows thus is not really about that. what does it mean that he is going after birthright citizenship? the 14th amendment? what does it mean he will want to overturn the 14th amendment, what does he try to do when he tries to undermine an ocean of citizenship that came into view as a response to the 1856 fred

scott decision. the first naturalization act held it for white children birthright citizenship it was good, explicit. there is something happening here. the moment you introduce birthright, denaturalization it is not the crisis at the border. the is about great replacement what we have to do is make that explicit so that we can understand that the steven millers and the tom homan they are not engaging in good faith. some of us that want secure borders we can see the argument but underneath it, it is something else. why on earth would he want to overturn the 14th amendment? we know ever since the 14th amendment has been ratified there have been forces to overturn it. he is just the latest incidence in it. >> we make a mistake when the conversations cul-de-sac, well, he does not know all of that. it does not matter. >> it doesn't matter.

>> i would, i am not asal as eloquent as eddie. >> nobody is. >> barack obama deported the most in history. deporting illegal immigrants. they are illegal. that is the enforcement of the law. you can do it in a surgical way. they have talked about how we will start with illegal immigrants who are criminals. it is logical to do it in that way and some aspect he may just decide if i do one more than barack obama did i can raise the flag and say . >> i think that is right. >> it is a victory. it is possible in a way it will be fine. birthright citizenship as you know better than anybody, is a way of making formally enslaved people, black people, members

of the united states. the 14th amendment is the first time that defines it. you were the person eddie that told me about eric founders book. >> that is right >> the the second founding. how the 14th was the second creation of america because it brought the bill of rights to the united states that it never been in the 14th amendment. changing all of that, not easy. radical. i think they will go to a surgical thing deporting people and use the rhetoric around the 14th amendment. >> two thoughts really quick. one on the 14th amendment. lindsey graham went out and said i agree with president trump. so, lindsey graham was one of the compassionate ones that was one of his key issues back in the old days >> yes. 2008. >> and, to have someone like lindsey graham, that is not stephen miller, not a radical

maga, that shows they embraced it throughout the party and the infrastructure. maybe they don't believe it will actually happen, maybe they will think it will be caught up in courts but still to eddie's point it is signal, they are sending a signal we don't want these people here and it is happening across the country. one last thing because we lose some of this stuff. sometimes the most practical political argument on all of this, though, is going back to prices. trump, we keep being told by the smarties, trump is here because of the price of eggs. a lot of people. and the whole interview with kristen, his whole agenda is tariffs and massive tax cuts for the wealthy and it is deportations. you can like any of those on the merits but they are all inflationary. >> correct. >> the only thing they are proposing that is not is doge. >> we don't know if it will be or not. i can't say it yet.

you know, we don't have an economic analysis of cutting 75% of the federal workforce, that, too, can be inflationary. the other thing, the ruse about price of eggs is just that. 69% of all-american voters knew on election day tariffs made things more expensive. i banned talk of the price of eggs. >> sorry, i throw myself on the mercy of the court. >> talk about economic disparity, rage, global phenomenon but the look of two one will make eggs cheaper and the other won't. trump talked about the grocery, he talked about he said, i talked about the grocery. >> no one is going anywhere, we have so much to talk about and trump's plans for mass deportations including potentially of american citizens which he says starts on day one. later in the hour, making sense of the lightning-fast rebellion that toppled the long time

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. what about dreamers, sir. you said back in 2017 quote they should not be very worried about being deported. should they be worried now? >> the dreamers will come later. they were brought here at a young age.

many are middle aged people now, they don't speak the language of their country. yes, we will do something about that. >> what does that mean? >> i will work on the democrats with a plan. if we can come up with a plan -- but the democrats made it difficult. republicans are open to the dreamers. dreamers we are talking many years ago. many years ago. some of them are no longer young people. and, many cases they are successful. they have great jobs and some cases they have small businesses, some cases that i might have large businesses and we will have to do something with them. lee, i suppose in these times that counts as good news, good signaling, we are deporting people with birthright citizenship but it is good that we are going to do something for the dreamers. your thoughts? >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, we have been waiting for something to be done for the dreamers for a long time. that is good news. but, i think the points he is

making about how the dreamers have been here and don't know other country and contributed applies, you know, across the board to so many other categories of immigrants, if you are going to have a u.s. citizen child to leave with their parent because they are going to go after a parent even if they don't have a criminal conviction the same arguments could be made. just to make a point about birthright citizenship, the border of mass deportation, i don't disagree that birthright is so fundamental as who we are as a country but i do think that mass deportations and closing a border. people want to bring order to the immigration system, we do as well, but how you go about it really matters. what he is threatening is to have removals of people living in the interior of the country. if you ask people, should people get a hearing to make sure there is no mistakes? i am hopeful that people would say yes. that gets lost in the sort of

abstraiks of mass deportation, we want revisions to border policy but we don't want to close it off completely to people fleeing danger. how you go about it matters. that is what we are going to be looking to, to see how they go about this and if they are taking shortcuts and doing things that are illegal and trying to engage in these kinds of deportations that is where hopefully the courts will step in. >> lee, what is the articulation of what should be happening at the border. some of what trump benefits from is in a political space where his supporters will tolerate any extreme language, extreme idea, he has so much sort of elasticity with that movement but he distorts the parameters of the debate what

should a sound immigration policy look like? >> that is exactly the right question. i think two things, one is we need to have more legal pathways for workers. not everyone shows up at the border looking for asylum. but for our asylum system we need it to be orderly. we need more help, not enforcement, they are coming across the border and they are sitting down, waiting to have their screenings what we need are more asylum officers to officially screen people. if they don't pass they will be deported unfortunately. there are people with genuine asylum claims who are really in danger. we need to have a screening process. what is being discussed now is just a shutdown of the border. so, even if you are a christian fleeing persecution, jewish fleeing persecution, a capitalist fleeing from a communist country you can not get a screening. that is what is being contemplated. there needs to be a efficient

screening process at the board. can not have anyone -- border. we can not just have it open but not shutdown. after world war ii we said we would never send people back to danger without screening them. i think what we need is more asylum officers and immigration judges at the border to do the screening so we can decide who can apply for asylum and who cannot. >> that is the facts of the debate is as opposed to the emotions of the debate. the fact of the debate is that biden would of signed a republican architect bill. that is why i wanted to understand from lee what it looks like. that was the bill that republican senators worked with the white house on that biden would of signed and trump kills it and brags about killing it. how much of sort of the extreme

language around immigration signals that the bipartisan really republican-authored fix is not what is wanted by the right? >> reporter: right, i think it reveals that, you know, people have been engaging in bad faith. they need this argument to stir up, you know, the grievance and fear of their base. and i think we need to understand that for what it is. i am just, i hate the fact that democrats are always arguing this issue on the ground of republicans. that we are always debating immigration question within the frame that republicans set. and, part of what i want to say is of course we would say that after world war ii but the 1965 one changed the quoteys and led to the browning of america and these folk want to go back to 1924 that was written by the klan. we are constantly arguing this issue on their grounds.

what is the moral basis of our political of immigration. are we clear about it? consistent with the vision of who we take ourselves to be as a nation? what does it mean in the details t. sounds abstract but it seems like we should get clear on if we are going to develop policy within this regard. instead, we get all of this cruelty, mass, as law and order. >> with the backing of a popular public opinion. >> exactly but there is a welcoming of immigration. the fact is 14% of our population is now first generation imgrants we are a younger country. all of the nations where these economies installed are old, median age is 15-20 years older than ours? the fact we are younger is because of the immigrants,

makes our gpd grow. even from having other reasons there are practical reasons. just another false hood by the president to be. when barack obama proposed the fast tracking for dreamers the republicans cried oh, my god! executive overreach! shortcuts. >> they lost their minds. >> yes. it drives me crazy, the democrats had control of washington they could of taken control of the dreamers. no, filibuster, barack obama tried to do it in '12 and republican senators vote today down and then in 2020, or 2021 i guess it was they could not bring it up they did not have 60 votes. there were no 9 republicans >> because they were afraid of trump >> and the people he is putting in front of his regime stephen miller are the ones that were advocating, no, no, no to the republicans you can not compromise with barack obama or biden. it was republicans that killed the dream act reform both times

in '12 and 2021-2022. lee i hope you will continue to join these conversations so keep them rooted in all of your good work and all of your knowledge. thank you very much for starting us off today >> thank you for having me. >> when we come back trump says the united states should have quote nothing to do with what is happening right now in syria. even though the rebellion stems to remake the entire middle east. the in-coming president should keep an eye on. a live report from the region, next a live report from the region, next our... master's... for under 11 thousand! master's degree for under 11k in less than a year. earn your competency - based master's at university of phoenix.

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♪♪ and that has been the kind of scene that we have been seeing all morning here. where people have come here and singsongs and there was a drone in the air trying to get high shots. lots and lots of celebration. here. you hear this, it is a difficult way of cheering and celebrating. and there are also fighters here. some of the rebels have played appearances and they are greeted like heroes as people come out and embrace them, thank them for the fight. it just has been a stunning last couple of weeks in this

country. that was my colleague richard engel in syria where developing stunning situation is still playing out this hour after a coalition of rebel forces captured the rebel city of damascus, toppling the brutal regime that has ruled the country. assad fled to russia sparking hope for the syrian people after years of civil war and a crack down by the assad regime by firing on unarmed dem straiters, mass arrests and torture and launching -- demonstrators and mass arrests and torture and logging war on the citizens. they are united to rush to prisons where detainees are feared to be held under ground. there is a lot unknown about the rebels now in control of syria and what it will mean for the middle east and the world as well as who will control the

future of two key russian bases in syria. as the rebel alliance that toppled president basha, r al-assad held meetings in the syrian capital, damascus, and announced on monday that it intended to form a transitional government the violence elsewhere highlighted syrias objectives and visions for a post-assad future. joining our coverage is michael crowley here, eddie, rick and tim are still with us. michael let me show you what president biden had to say about this yesterday. >> for the first time ever, nor russia, iran or hezbollah could defend this regime in syria. this is direct result of the blow to ukraine, israel delivered upon their own self- defense with unflagging support of the united states. >> so, michael, just take me

through the events as they are unfolding in the region and the view from the white house. >> reporter: yeah, nicolle, the view from the white house is confused. they are really waiting to see how the situation pans out, you know, you have the fall of a long time dictator in syria and you have a, you know, nominal new ruling group in the form of this, these rebel fighters. it does not mean that syria now is, you know, on a clear path and that we know what will happen next. you are still a country that is in a state of civil war. in the is going to be chaos, uncertainty, and the biden administration is trying to figure out number one, if these rebels who taken over the capital are, you know, fanatics? moderates, somewhere in between? coaxed from moving from one to another. i don't think they have a clear

view of how these guys are prepared to govern. they are worry bed scenarios, including reconstitution of the terrorist groups that might threaten the united states. the possibility that syria, which already is essentially a broken country, plunges even deeper into anarchy. it will not settle the fights once and for all. will you have a new wave of migration? new threats to israel? so, everyone is looking for answers right now, nicolle but administration officials are saying across the board is they are trying to get more information. they are trying to make indirect contact with the rebel leader who's they are not talking directly to right now. they are trying to give them incentives to do the right things from the u.s. point of view. just not sure how it will play out. a lot of risk involved. >> rick? >> thank you, michael. actually we, together, worked on the issues when we were at

"time" together. >> hi. >> people are talking about the battle from day to day. this is a change over it is away from the minority regimes to the majority. assad, 90% of the country are sunies. they are, we have 90% of this are they a minority there? and that was the crescent. president biden is right. iranian crescent. they are concern bed it, it is gone now, basically and russia, who moved into syria during the barack obama administration while i was there, we should of done a better job of preventing, they are just now lost. they have their only warm water mediterranean port in syria.

that is gone. so, it is great for the rest. we don't know about the future of what will happen in the middle east. what it also is the end of secularism. you had all of the leaders in the middle east. you will not have any of them anymore. you will not have them anymore. they are not democrats, they are not angels. but maybe it is what the people want. syrians for the syrians. >> i mean, and enter donald trump. the person the n this country chose and i want to add that to the mix and bring you guys in this. i have to sneak in a quick break first, we'll be right back. a quick break first, we'll be right back.

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you're going to change a life forever. will you help? please call or give online at grantwishes.org. wishes can only come true because of you. thank you. . we are all back. i will read donald trump's post, in any event syria say pleases, but it is not our friend and we switch to all caps here the united states should have nothing to do with it. this is not our fight. let it play out. do not get involved. >> strong diplomacy with the all caps and second grade level rhetoric. but, look, i mean, i think politically the not getting involved posture works for him. that is what he is leaning into. we have 800 or 900 troops in

syria. does he not know that? does he not care? does it not matter to him? who knows. could be any or all of the above. and, to rick's point before the break, like it is a uncertain moment right now where these guys can be nudged one way or the other. the right thing to do is not for america to go in there and put our puppet in there. but being involved, being proactive, it actually paid dividends, people do not like to complement the biden administration or american foreign policy but our support for israel and ukraine is part of the reason, i know they get most of the credit. part of the reason russian and iran is weakened and part of the reason syria fell. it is all interconnected. this idea we will not do anything seems unwise. but the good news is the person will be a weekend fox news host he might have a more serious thought response than trump, who knows.

>> now i want something . >> i know, i know. >> but, look, we need to look at something happening in syria in a u.s. lens and you have to at a certain level. but there is a long road ahead. they have been under a brutal regime for 50 years. i think they have the examples of what happened in egypt, what happened in libya, the arab spring, those examples, failures are in front of them. it was a great day. i was talking about it. a great day for them but there is a long road ahead and they need to understand it as much >> can i deal with what i think is an elephant in the room? tulsi gabbard has to be the highest ranking americans to visit with assad. she may be the incoming head of america's intelligence agencies

is that on anyone's radar today? >> reporter: well, nicolle, a great point. so much in the news it is not one of the top stories, as for confirmation hearings, this is one of the most controversial elements of her record. she threw in with assad when the rest of the world saw him as a war criminal and went to damascus and met with him. for someone who is in line to run the entire intelligence committee, remember, cia director reports to director of intelligence, the top intelligence job in the united states. she endorsed this theory that is, you know, no one in the united nations, the united states, any western country that does not have, was not aligned with assad believes it was the rebels that believe

used chemical weapon, a false flag, he was wrongly accused. it was a strange position for her to take. she will be questioned intensely about it. to the point about what trump will do, i think that illustrates the fact that trump is surrounded by people who feel strongly that the u.s. should not be involved in these conflicts. a part of where gabbard was coming from that the u.s. has terrible record of regime change. people can agree on up to a point. you don't have to endorse bad intelligence, though. so, trump has a lot of pressure on him from people like gabbard to stay out. other people in his orbit, lindsey graham and marco rubio who felt strongly for a long time that the u.s. should do more to shape events in syria, doing more to support rebels and try to be in position to have friendly contacts in damascus if assad was over thrown, that is the point we

have come to now. last thing that i will say, remember, trump ordered air strikes after taking office in 2017 against the assad regime to punish the use of chemical weapon. at that time that camp was prevailing on him. there will be a struggle when he takes office between the hawks that have influence in the gabbard people, isolationist and especially the middle east stay out. >> michael crowley thank you very much for rounding it all in your great reporting and you for all of your perspective on this, eddie, tim, thank you for being at the table for the hour. another break for us, we'll be right back. hour. another break for us, we'll be right back. because at st. jude, we believe all children deserve a chance to live. but one in five kids in the us still won't survive cancer. and globally, that number is even higher. in this family, we won't stop until no child dies from cancer. this holiday season, join our st. jude family.

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