can i just say, i am optimistic that it is inevitable that this transition will continue, because, yes, the red districts, because of the bipartisan support for these technologies, and also states and the private sector are doing this and that is not going to turn back. >> and the price coming down around the world. basically just jerryrigged your solar panels and sidestepping, you are missing that all over the world. energy secretary jennifer granholm, always good to have you. thank you. that is "all in" on this i am saying that sounds like a 6 1/2, seven? >> yeah, i would say maybe even eight. >> wow, okay, i will take it. i will take that from secretary of energy jennifer granholm. continue the conversation, take some more minutes away. anyway, it is really important

conversation, a great conversation, and at the end of the day, kind of an optimistic one. thank you guys, donald trump has repeatedly said he wants to pardon january 6th writers on day one of his presidency but i think most people imagine that was probably more figurative than literal until now. january 6th pardons, did you have in mind what the first 24 to 48 hours will look like? trump: i will be looking at january 6th, maybe the first nine minutes but as in the first nine minutes of his presidency. just to be clear, donald trump will become president again at exactly 12:00 p.m. eastern time on january 20th, 2025. that is when he will take the oath of office, standing in front of the u.s. capitol building, and nine minutes later, he will presumably just be delivering the opening lines of his inaugural address. you probably remember the images of january 6th rioters

scaling the scaffolding of the capitol on january 6th. the reason that scaffolding was there was because the preparation for the 2020 inaugoration. and it is from that very spot that donald trump is now suggesting he will pardon the criminals who violently tried to keep him in power just four years ago. if trump really does follow through with that promise, it will be a remarkable display of authoritarian style leadership in his first nine minutes as president. but that will not be the only bit of authoritarianism creeping onto the stage on inauguration day. >> i was even thinking about inviting certain people to the inaugoration and some people said, wow, that is a little risky, isn't it? and i said maybe it is, we will see, we will see what happens, but we like to take little chances, but that is not a bad chance. lex we like to take little chances but a little chances? kind of seems like a big one.

the risky people donald trump is inviting to his inaugoration are the authoritarian leaders of china and hungary point we told you last night about a report that trump had allegedly invited president xi and viktor orban to the inaugoration, and what has press secretary caroline leavitt had confirmed that an invitation had been extended to xi jinping. >> reportedly, and you can confirm this, it sounds like donald trump has invited president xi to the inaugoration, so what can you tell us about that? >> that is true, yes, this is an example of president trump creating an open dialogue with leaders of countries that are not just our allies, our adversaries and our competitors, too. >> has he rsvped? >> to be determined. x i am not really sure what to be determined there me and sprint either he has agreed to attend or he has not. but anyway, for what it is worth, cbs news is now reporting that president xi has

declined trump's invitation, but that china will send a high- level official. you can see through the forced smiles of those fox news hosts that they are trying very hard to put a positive spin on the fact that the man who spent the last four years accusing joe biden of being too soft on china is using the very first moment of his presidency to cozy up to china's dictator. and they are not the only fox news hosts running cover for trump on this. >> this is a power move to intimidate the chinese leader. if he declines, it is disrespectful and trump will take it personally. and if he accepts, he will be forced to observe president trump at his most powerful moment. >> that might be the most craven attempt to put a positive spin on trump's erratic behavior since -- well, since this. >> looked directly at the sun without any glasses, perhaps the most impressive thing any president has ever done.

>> get ready for four more years of that. now, jesse watters is right about one thing here. trump's invitation to xi jinping is a power move, but not on behalf of the country, on behalf of donald trump himself. throughout his first presidency, trump repeatedly showed affection for trump's autocratic adversaries while shunning our allies, and the inescapable conclusion from all of that is that trump really wants to be liked by those guys, and actually, just be like those guys point he wants america to be like the kleptocratic governments of russia and china were powerful interests suck up to the leaders, and then lavished them with praise and gifts, all just to enrich themselves. and america's rich and powerful are pretty ready to indulge in the impulse this time around. the wall street journal is now reporting that mark zuckerberg's meta, formerly facebook, has donated $1 million to donald trump's inaugoration. that comes just two weeks after

zuckerberg reportedly dined with trump at mar-a-lago. all this despite the fact that trump and his allies spent the last four years accusing zuckerberg and his company is of conspiring to steal the 2020 election. meanwhile, amazon, the company founded and run by billionaire jeff bezos is also tonight reportedly contributing $1 million to trump's inaugoration. to be clear, this is not normal. neither meta nor amazon have ever donated anywhere near this much money to an inaugoration before. and trump is telling cnbc that jeff bezos plans to pay trump a visit next week, which comes after bezos, who owns the washington post, scuttled in his paper's endorsement of kamala harris of this year's election, and ahead of bezos offering trump these words of praise just last week. >> what i have seen so far is that he is calmer than he was

the first time and more confident, more settled. >> trump's favorite billionaire, elon musk, just spent the weekend down at mar-a- lago with trump, where he was hanging with viktor orban, the very same hungarian strongmen trump just invited to his inaugoration. there has been a lot of handwringing in recent weeks about the political efficacy of calling donald trump an authoritarian strongman, but whatever political impact those terms do or do not have, the plans and meetings and invitations leading up to trump's inaugoration really do suggest he meant what he said about being a dictator on day one. joining me now is the senator chris murphy, democrat of connecticut, member of the senate committee on foreign relations. senator, thank you for being here tonight let me first get your reaction to the notion that billionaires are bending the knee to trump. billionaires who in one case or

another often own press outlets like the washington post. there is patrick at the l.a. times seems to be currying favor with the maga right. what does this tell you about the government that is emerging next january? >> i think we talk a lot about the coming dictatorship, but i think what is really coming is what you would call an oligarchy. that is a term you probably forgot from high school, but what it means is that a handful of really rich people run the government and a steel from ordinary people, using their access to government in order to make themselves and their families even richer. that is likely what we are heading for in the united states of america. i don't think it is a coincidence that trump's cabinet is filled with billionaires. there is more wealth on that cabinet than 169 different nations. and you sort of see all of

these folks that could decide to stand up for our democracy instead, as you mentioned, bending the knee and deciding that they're going to put their profits ahead of their loyalty to country. donald trump just put one of their hand-picked guys in charge of the agency that oversees mergers in this country . the word is out that corporate consolidation is back in vogue, even if it screws consumers, and that is part of the reason that you see these billionaires lining up to donate to trump, to meet with trump, because they know that he is going to put them first and he is going to put everybody else second, third, and fourth grade that is i think what is coming here. >> what sort of shocks the conscience is the way that it is so explicit. i mean, trump literally posted on truth social, "any person or company investing $1 billion or more in the united states of

america will receive fully expedited approvals and permits, including but in no way limited to all environmental approvals. get ready to rock." literally sacrificing the integrity of our land for corporate profit. i mean, i guess the trump argument is that is all going to flow down to the worker, but we know better than that at this point, don't we? >> yeah, of course, i mean, trickle-down economics have never worked, it is just a lie made up by really, really rich people to make you think that if you give them tax breaks or regulatory breaks, that they will pass it down to workers but ask average, ordinary workers in this country whether they have gotten the benefits of the trump tax breaks from 2017, they have it. this specific proposal is absolutely bonkers, because what you're saying is you will get regulatory breaks in this country, but only if you are a billionaire but if you are a mom and pop factory that wants to add on a new wing to hire more local workers, you don't get that deal from trump.

if you are a local housing developer and you want to build some warehouses to lower the cost of mortgages in your community, you don't get that special deal. what he says with that social media postings billionaires get one set of rules, all the rest of us get a different set of rules. like how much more plainly could you make it that this is an oligarchy that is coming, in which six or seven really rich people play by one set of rules that allows them to enrich themselves, and all the rest of us, occluding small and medium- sized businesses in this country, get screwed. he is just telling you what he is doing. listen, i think we should start listening to him. >> it also toys with distinct nepotism. there is a new york times -- a great piece of investigative reporting in the new york times tonight that reveals that trump's a middle east adviser, an individual who is the father- in-law of trump's daughter-in- law, tiffany trump, the lord

around him is that he is a billionaire and he has all this foreign business experience, but he basically runs a truck dealership, i believe in nigeria, which made under $66,000 in 2023 point. his stake is worth $1.53. i mean, hand it to him for not being a billionaire and getting a job in trump's administration, but it is sort of like kleptocracy. this person has no qualifications that i can see from the reporting that we have been a middle east adviser at a time when -- you're in the foreign relations committee, what are the implications of having someone like this managing the portfolio of one of the most volatile and key regions in the world? >> obviously, this guy seems like he is a fraud, right? he manufactures educational background, he is not really rich, it is very noble to run a trump dealership, nothing wrong with that, but even if he was a

billionaire, that would make him qualified to be the primary middle east adviser to the president of the united states. at a moment when that region is on fire. all throughout the middle east in particular, you are seeing this kleptocracy. because it is not just this guy. after trump left office, his son-in-law jared kushner went and did a massive deal with saudi arabia, in which saudi arabia promised billions of dollars to invest in kushner and his properties. properties that the trump family benefits from. there is no doubt that this administration's policy toward the middle east is going to be compromised by the fact that they are making money off the very people they are sitting across the table from, and supposedly having a conversation about the interests of the united states. it is just extraordinary that we have allowed for the normalization of trump's financial empire to be woven into the state craft of this country. all that matters is how much money he makes, much money his family makes, and it comes at a

cost to the rest of us. we will see really bad policy in the middle east because he has got unqualified people there, but more so, he is going to put his wealth and his family's wealth first, the national security of the country second. >> and his ego. the idea that he is inviting xi jinping, the leader of china, who this week, there is bombshell reporting about operation sought typhoon, which is one of the most significant hacks of this country ever, right? it is chinese hackers breaking into american telecom systems, getting access to all kinds of records, even encrypted once. that whole sort of genre of spy craft was largely grown and instituted by xi jinping in china. the same week, donald trump is inviting xi jinping to attend the inauguration, which honestly, i'm with tim miller on this, i think trump sees this as more of a coronation

than an inauguration, and the way that kings and empires used to have foreign dignitaries and heads of state, and watch them take the crown, it feels like that for donald trump. but it is an astounding study in terms of what matters to donald trump. >> i wouldn't have a massive problem with inviting president xi if he was part of a longer invitation list of great powers in the world. that is not what is happening. the only great power that is getting an invitation is the dictatorship. the only country in europe that seems to be getting an invitation is the one that is very quickly sliding away from democracy. it is just this big middle finger to the country. telling everybody that these are the kind of governments he models and that he looks up to. places where ordinary people have no power, where if you tried to stand up to the leader, you get thrown in jail. he told us during the campaign that the biggest threat to this country wasn't china, wasn't russia, it wasn't a terrorist organization, it was democrats, that's what you said.

then he put in charge of the department of justice and fbi people that would go after democrats, and he is just doubling down on that by inviting the chinese and the hungarians rather than our actual democratic allies to the swearing in. >> are you going to be at the swearing in? >> somebody asked me that today, and i actually hadn't thought about it. i have always gone -- i have always gone to swearing ends. i think respecting the transition of power is important, but if between now and then we continue to get this kind of disdain for the rule of law, if a swearing in ends up becoming just a signal that that day and the day after is going to be the last days of democracy in this country, yeah, i think every single person who loves this nation unless the constitution should probably think twice about being part of that antidiuretic spectacle. >> senator chris murphy, it is great to talk with you, thanks for the time tonight, sir. >> thank you.

>> we have much more to get to tonight. have you heard that donald trump has chosen a new voice of america? and she sounds a lot like kari lake. but for us today, new york city's prodigal son returned for the kind of red letter day we have dreamed of for decades. opening the new york stock exchange against the backdrop of his very own time magazine cover. but what will his return to washington, d.c. next month mean for your wallet, your finances? that is next. >> [ music ] but starting it eight months pregnant.. that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs. the chase ink card made it easy. when you go for something big like this, your kids see that. and they believe they can do the same. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

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we will and back inflation and make america affordable again. we are going to get the prices down. we have to get them down, it is too much. groceries, cars, everything, we are going to get the prices down. we will cut your taxes, end inflation,/your prices. the prices will come down, you just watch, they will come down and they will come down fast. >> one of donald trump's signature campaign pledges was to end inflation and slash prices. but now that the election is over, he is changing his tune. in the cover story for time magazine, just released today, trump was asked to consider whether failure to lower grocery prices would in turn make his presidency a failure. he responded: i don't think so, it is hard to bring things down once they are up, you know, it is very hard.

trump's sudden bout of honesty here follows an interview with nbc's kristen welker who asked trump last weekend whether his plans for widespread tariffs might actually raise prices for americans. >> can you guarantee american families will pay more? >> i can't guarantee anything. i can't guarantee tomorrow. >> joining me now our chief political adviser to senator bernie sanders and michel goldberg, opinion columnist for the new york times. thank you for being here tonight. we will correct your intro in the voucher. i do wonder if you are at all surprised that donald trump is actually saying explicitly, out there in public, yeah, i probably won't be able to lower grocery prices and tariffs might actually raise costs on american households. >> are we surprised? it is the reality, but he is also making a choice of the things joe biden was trying to do to raise prices.

was fighting a kroger and albertsons merger, a big victory this week, that is an effort to try to keep prices down. what does trump do, he moves aggressively against that. all my billionaire friends, they don't like this kind of stuff, so we are going to end the regulation. so, even action that could be construed as helping to bring down prices, he is actively against, of course, he has to land that there is nothing much we can do here, guys. i have campaigned on it, but good luck to you all. >> michelle, i don't know. when he literally said it is hard to lower prices once they go up, it is like the emoji with the explosion coming out of the top of the head. i mean, does anybody hold this individual to account for saying something like that and for admitting the reality that presses very well may not come down at all? >> well, the chances doubled donald trump to account for anything are gone. people may in fact hold the

republican party to account if they find that their economic situation hasn't improved, or in some cases, has gotten worse, you know, because donald trump is going to replace lena con with somebody who is much more in favor of all kinds of mergers and unfair trade practices. he is going to open up the government to all of his billionaire cronies. you know, people in his administration have plans to keep people off of medicaid or make it harder for them to get, and so, in a lot of ways -- but there has always been something of a divorce between the way that donald trump performs and the way that he is seen by his most fervent accolades, so you already see republicans' perception of the economy changed overnight after he was elected. and so, for a lot of people,

their perceptions of the economy and even of their own economic situation is highly partisan. i guess the question is about the people who are maybe more disconnected from politics, who voted for donald trump only because they thought that it was going to reverse inflation or reverse some of the economic -- the post-covid economic changes that they blame on joe biden. whether they will be disillusioned when they find that none of these promises are going to be kept. >> i mean, i just feel like today was such an indicator -- i mean, the stagecraft of him today ringing the bell at the new york stock exchange and the picture of him on the cover of time magazine was really donald trump's biggest dream come true, but also a statement of principles and priorities. this is where he has always wanted to be, surrounded with wealthy people, with more wealthy people coming to support him in his administration, ringing the bell at the stock exchange and saying this. let's just listen to what he had to say today at the new

york stock exchange. i think we have it. >> we are cutting your taxes, we are going to cut them very substantially, we have got them down to 21% from probably 42 or 44%, depending on where you are, we got them down to 21. everyone said that was a miracle. now we are getting them down to 15, but only if you make your product here. otherwise you pay 21, which is not bad. >> it is all about corporations, this is it, this is who he is, this is who he has always been, this is the trump tasks cuts on steroids. >> we fought for 515 for a long time, it was raising the minimum wage to 15. his fight for 15 is to lower the corporate tax rate to 15. and the question you have to ask yourself is what problem are you trying to solve, honestly, what is the issue here? we have that strong economic growth, billionaires and wealthy people doing great, the stock market is up, so if you are going to come around and offer people a tax-cut to large corporations, wealthy people,

there isn't really a problem. the issue we have to address is greater income and wealth inequality in which people are getting screwed around in the middle class, and he is offering nothing right now. and this is where the influence of billionaire class is really important. because when they are around him, they are advocating -- if you are a billionaire, how did you get that rich? you usually found a way and the tax loophole, some regulatory carveout that helped you get rich. that is how you have things like the hedge fund loophole. so, if you are a hedge fund billionaire, you get favored taxation. that's what they're looking for, that's what they're fighting for, that's the kind of stuff we as democrats have to be fighting to put on the agenda against these guys. >> you know, michelle, absolutely understand what you're saying, the time donald trump accountable is over. in theory, he is not running again. but holding the republican party accountable, they're going to fall in line, lockstep on all of this, they have shown

no interest in departing from anything donald trump has proposed. what should democrats do, given how naked the ambitions to coddle the richest, given how naked trumps ambitions are here and how explicit the favoritism towards the corporate class, the corporate billionaire class is, what is the correct response from democrats? >> i mean, i think that what the correct response is not is some of what -- you know, you have seen a lot of bipartisan overtures, a lot of willingness among certain democrats to say that they are going to vote for various members of trump's prospective cabinet, and you know, on the one hand, i understand, you just lost an election, you can't asked as if you won it. at the same time, i think that for a lot of democrats, they feel like the party that is supposed to be leading them is just kind of rolling over and showing its belly at a time when, you know, we are on the verge of -- as chris murphy said, on the verge of

transformation into a kind of a fully corrupt oligarchy. and so, you would like to see democrats both fighting that, and also just pointing it out. i think it is really important for people to understand, there was a perception of donald trump for a long time that donald trump represented a fundamental break with paul ryan is him, that people hated it, with its lust for tax cutting and entitlement reform and all the rest, and that donald trump was a different kind of republican who had a different kind of economic policy. and what we are seeing instead is, you know, at least so far, the signs are that this incoming administration is going to be, you know, with some exceptions, tariffs and the like, but in terms of its attitude towards both the government safety net and towards income inequality in taxes, is going to be paul ryan on steroids. >> do you think one part of this resonates more deeply with the american public than

another? by that, i mean like the tax cuts he talked about specifically on the campaign trail and he got elected, but having a cabinet, having an upper administration that is worth $340 billion, that is a new thing. that seems like if you are a working class american that thought donald trump was going to be fighting for you, does that have more residents question mark i'm just wondering, what of the data we have gotten so far about what this administration is going to look like and how much it is an oligarchy where kleptocracy in the making, what part of that do you think is most effectively weaponized as democrats try to make the case that donald trump is not a friend to the working class? >> right now, we are watching them fight among themselves and a billionaire class and a lobbyist group in d.c. to get their agenda, because obviously he is not president yet and he hasn't put in forward his tax bill, we haven't gotten the terrace yet, we have got pretty decent judgments about where they are likely to go, but we

don't have the concreteness. and when that comes, michelle has been mentioning, there is a lethargy out there, it bothers me a lot, among the democratic crowd, that isn't right at the same level of ready for the fight, and i'm hoping that once the actions start coming, we have got to fight. we can't take these lying down if he is making decisions that are going to totally kind of ruined the next generation of america in a major way with terrible financial judgments and decisions, so i am hoping that when he starts to make some of these, and you and i can start to figure out some of them, like when a billionaire class suggests that we want to end meals on wheels, food stamps, cut medicaid, you know, find all kinds of cuts that really disproportionately hurt working-class people, that is mobilization time, that is action. now you have got harmed recipient. the people we know have been purposely targeted by truck, that i think hopefully gets us

to the place of let's engineer a movement in america. >> when doge is a reality. we are where we are. that is the least of the indignities, but still. thank you, my friends, for your time this evening. >> thank you. coming up, twice failed arizona senate and gubernatorial candidate and robust election denier kari lake is well known for her disdain for both journalists and the truth. i will speak with npr's david about what might happen now that kari lake has been tapped to lead the governments independent news service. stay with us. >> [ music ] >> [ music ] ♪♪ vicks vapostick provides soothing non-medicated vicks vapors. easy to apply for the whole family. vicks vapostick. and try new vaposhower max for steamy vicks vapors. when the time comes to act. are you all in for the things that really matter? i am all in for racial justice.

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it is time to take a sledgehammer to the mainstream media's lies and propaganda. >> [ music ] >> that was the failed republican candidate kari lake and one of the ads from her race for governor of arizona in 2022. last night, president-elect trump announced lake as his pick to run one of the world's most important media outlets, voice of america. since world war ii, the congressionally funded news outlet has operated with the mission to provide free and comprehensive news coverage all across the globe. today, voa broadcasts to weekly audience of more than 350 million people in nearly 50 languages. it broadcasts in places that do

not have a free press like china and venezuela, and even though it's broadcasts were banned in russia after putin invaded ukraine, the networks russian language website is still up and running and providing factual information to people in russia who access it through encrypted internet connections. since the network's founding, its purpose has been to provide a counterbalance to propaganda put out by nations like russia and china and to promote democracy around the world, just by giving people access to the truth. and now donald trump wants to put kari lake in charge. >> i'm kari lake. you might recognize me from tv. i worked as a journalist and a news anchor for 27 years right here in arizona. so i know the ins and outs of the corporate media, and i know how corrupt it is. it is not recording, it is propaganda and it is biased. it is unethical. journalism is dead.

>> you probably know kari lake best for her refusal to concede after losing both her 2022 run for governor of arizona and her run to represent arizona in the senate just last month. lake was also one of the most vocal proponents of the big lie that the 2020 presidential election was rigged. she also made quite a name for the self as an anti-vax, anti- mask covid conspiracy theorist who pushed hydroxychloroquine. so, the truth is not exactly kari lake's thing. to give you a sense of what kind of media kari lake views as truthful and good, the show she chose to go on today after trump announced she was his pick to run the voice of america, the show was steve bannon's war room podcast. here was kari lake on that show today after steve bannon asked her why she thought she was the right person to lead the voa. >> i have been in broadcast journalism for 30 years, but as

most people in the war room posse no, i walked away from a very lucrative contract during covid after the government was pushing so many lies about covid, its origins, what kind of treatment we were allowed to have, about the vaccine. on top of that, when the 2020 election went down and all of that was rigged, i did not want to sit and push the government might. i really cherish my time as a journalist, and when it became very apparent that it was getting impossible to be a journalism in a world that is being taken over by propaganda, i chose to walk away rather than stay in it. >> does that sound like the voice of america to you? npr's media correspondent david joins me to discuss, coming right up next. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events

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with powerful ingredients to visibly improve your skin? try olay super serum. for five powerful ingredients in one, it hydrates, improves texture and evenness, while also firming and smoothing. try olay super serum. the news was bad. america had been at war just 79 days. the president struggled to improve arms production. >> [ music ] >> it is is a voice speaking from america. >> the voice of america was born. >> in 1942, the first voice of america broadcast began with a promise to listeners in occupied europe. it would tell listeners the truth whether the news was good or bad.

for the past 82 years, the federally funded, independent network has worked to honor that promise with objective reporting for an estimated audience of 354 million people worldwide in nearly 50 languages. and that is why there is considerable alarm that donald trump wants the next director of the voice of america to be kari lake, a former local tv news anchor turned staunch election denier, who regularly demonizes both the truth and the media. joining me now is david, npr's media correspondent, a wealth of information on this subject. david, lake said in a tweet this week, "under my leadership, the voa will excel and its omission, chronicling america's achievements worldwide." correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think that is the voa's mission at all, is it? >> i mean, that could be part of the diet of news provided the global audience, along with debate and dissent and other news developments in the u.s. that reflected both poorly and

wonderfully on this. you know, the whole notion is that the voice of america is performing small deed democratic service in two ways. it is providing, as you laid out to viewers, a service, particularly in those countries that don't have a robust and free press, that it provides news reports that are reliable, even for listeners or viewers who are accessing these reports and regimes that don't allow domestic news outlets to provide that themselves. and secondly, it is modeling what the liberal democracy can be by saying, look, we acknowledge there are news reports and developments that don't reflect well on our public officials, on our government leaders, even the people at the top of the pyramid of the executive branch, whether democrat or republican, and we are going to present that to you because we

think you need it to be well- informed, and we want to show you what a free press really looks like. so, simply talking about america's achievements, that his apr element. talking about america's news, that is a network. >> it feels like -- whether talking about institutional racism or slavery and otherwise banned books that challenge or critique american institutions. it sounds like kari lake wants to focus only on the positive, and therefore, anything that critiques either the presidency, the administration, i don't know, republican platforms that are ascendant and the republican trifecta of having the courts, the executive, and the legislative branch, that that will be censored. do you have any sense of what that might look like, like how that would change what is happening at voa at present? >> well, i think you would see an enormous drain of the talent of people who have covered so many countries, so many regimes

, at times uncovered developments that weren't really being robustly reported on by other news outlets, because they have the acumen and the expertise in these foreign lands. but furthermore, you know, we can look back to the end of trump's first term. trump had wanted to point a controversial former documentarian and corporation for public testing official named michael packard, and his nomination language for a few years, but he rammed it through in late spring of 2020. why? well, the white house went on the attack against a network owned by the federal government and operated not here, but abroad, the voice of america, because president trump felt at that time that it was not reporting -- about the covid-19 outbreak was squarely the fault of the communist party government in china. and he felt that it was offering chinese propaganda. you saw the white house put out official statements attacking the voice of america and the

sort of senate republicans reluctantly pushed through his nomination and approved it, at which point he waged a seven, eight month long war on the professionalism of the voice of america. but let me just say, it is on two parts. one is it was on professionalism of the voice of america and the u.s. agency for global media, and therefore trying to erode the nonpartisan, non-politicized nature of most of the workforce there, which is a template of how the trump administration looked at the larger administration and looks now again at how it wants to handle appointments and employees in the workforce in the white house in trump 2.0 point the second thing of course is that you want in the voice of america and it's sort of soft diplomacy abroad, promoting american democratic values with the larger press, which at that time, he was attacking as fake news, all the time. and that is the banner that kari lake is flying under. whether or not she ever makes it in this position or not, that is the agenda that they have to try to bring this

institution, this independent network to heal, to represent not just in their occasional -- acknowledging occasionally what the official position of the american government is, but reflecting as though it is fully fact, regardless of what the facts maybe. >> and i think that posture extends to, as you say, the larger media, the broader media, the white house press room. eric trump said this week during the podcast episode that the incoming president is considering opening up the press room to a lot of independent journalists. we should be clear about who eric trump thinks is an independent journalists. that could be joe rogan. what is your expectation for the upheaval that that brady press briefing room, which is a critical sort of exchange and forum for debate between the press and the administration, what that might look like in a matter of weeks? >> look, and any other room, if you were to ask me, dave, how well do you think the white house press corps does in holding administrations, government officials of both

parties accountable, i might take issue with the way as it is sometimes done, it is sometimes very performative. but there are important moments where you your questions that have bubbled up in the american electorate or in news reports that need to be challenged and tested in real time, in public view, and that is what that press briefing room is affording and allowing. when president biden proved not to be up for the job and tens of millions of americans, republicans and democrats, you saw that be imposed to his representatives at that lectern day in and day out, because that is the form in which it takes place. i don't know if joe rogan wants to spend his time lingering around in tiny cubicles for the chance to ask official questions. but at the same time, if you displace -- i don't care about bringing it people in so much, but if you displace people who

are providing accountability, who work for independent outlets, who are asking important and inconvenient questions, that is a problem indeed protects as someone who used to sit in one of those roads in the press briefing room, i can attest, the kitchen is very small, but that does not mean that the work is not very important. david, thank you for your time tonight, it is great to have you on the show. we will be right back. we will be right back. vicks vapostick. and try new vaposhower max for steamy vicks vapors. at harbor freight, we do business differently from the other guys. we design and test our own tools. and sell them directly to you. no middleman. just quality tools you can trust at prices you'll love. ♪♪ [♪♪] looking for a moisturizer that does more than just moisturize? try olay regenerist for 10 benefits in every jar. olay visibly firms, lifts, and smooths wrinkles, by penetrating the skin, to boost regeneration at the surface cellular level. try olay.

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as republicans gear up to take over washington next month and celebrate all that winning,

we have a case study this week in how to respond to the moment if you are skeptical that america is about to be made great again. sarah longwell, host of the bulwark podcast and a political strategist, was seated at a new york times event that included some of trump's biggest enablers. this is what she did, when former speaker of the house kevin mccarthy tried to rewrite history. >> independence believe the greatest threat to democracy was joe biden. getting re-elected. >> the difference between what the american -- so, the idea -- i don't know why -- i don't know -- the defense of merrick garland, sure. donald trump lied about an election being stolen, and then sit him out on the capital, and it is funny that you roll your eyes at this, kevin, because you are the one who went down and resurrected him. you want to know what happened just now in the 2024 election?

we elected the most dangerous criminal human being, corrupt human being, that america has ever elected. and kevin, you helped him. you are the one who went and got him after. >> you're welcome. >> sure, thank you. and in doing so, you enable this. and so, the idea that joe biden's justice department is the problem here, as opposed to donald trump and the fact that he tried to overturn an election and sick people on the capital, is i don't know if people let you get away with that in rooms all the time, but you should never be allowed to get away with that. >> here is to more of that energy in 2025. that is our show for tonight, and a reminder, you can listen to every single episode of "alex wagner tonight" as a podcast, for free. just scan the qr code on your screen or search for "alex wagner tonight" wherever you get your podcasts. now, it is time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, alex.