who sayings that it is all -- >> let me say i'm optimistic. that we, that this is inevitable that this transition will continue. because the red districts, the bipartisan support of the technologies. also states and local governments. they are moving forward and this and that will not turn back. >> the prices coming down around the world. the story in pakistan where people are jerry rigging their solar panels. energy secretary, >> i'll take that from the secretary of energy, jennifer granholm. yes. continue the conversation. take some more minutes away.

it's a really important conversation, a great conversation, an optimistic one. thank you guys, both. donald trump has repeatedly said he wants to pardon january 6th rioters on day one of his presidency. i mean, i think most people ma'am yij that was probably more figurative -- imagine that was probably more figurative than literal until now. this is from donald trump's interview with "time" magazine which is out today. "time" magazine. january 6th pardons, do you have in mind what the first 24 to 48 hours will hook like? trump -- i'll be looking at january 6th early on, maybe the first nine minutes. as in the first nine minutes of his presidency. just to be clear leer, donald trump -- clear here, donald trump will become president at 12:00 p.m. eastern time on january 20th of 2025. that is when he will take the oath of office standing in front of the u.s. capitol building. nine minutes later he will presumably just be delivering the opening lines of his inaugural address.

you probably remember the images of january 6th rioters scaling the scaffolding at the capitol on january 6th. the reason -- not scaffolding, it was there because of preparation for the 2020 inauguration. it is from that very spot that donald trump is now suggesting he will pardon the criminals who violently tried to keep him in power just four years ago. if trump does follow through, it will be a remarkable display of authoritarian-style leadership in his first nine minutes as president. that will not be the only bit of authoritarianism creeping onto the stage on inauguration day. >> i was even thinking about inviting certain people to the inauguration, and some people say, wow, that's risky, isn't it? i said, maybe it is. we'll see. we'll see what happens. but we like to take little chances. that's not a bad chance. >> we like to take little chances. little chances? seems like a big one.

the risky people donald trump is inviting to his inauguration are the authoritarian leaders of china and hungary. xi jinping and victor orban. we told you about a report that trump had allegedly invited them, and this morning incoming white house press secretary caroline levitt confirmed an invitation had been extended to xi jinping. >> reportedly, and you can confirm this, it sounds like donald trump has invited president xi to the inauguration. what can you tell us about that? >> that is true. yes. and this is an example of president trump creating an open dialogue with leaders of countries are not just our allies but our adversaries and competitors, too. >> he has rsvp'd? >> to be determined. >> i'm not sure what to be determined means there. either xi jinping has rsvp'd to attend the inauguration or he has not. anyway, for what it's worth, cbs news is reporting that xi has

declined trump's invitation, but that china will send a hay-level official. you can see through the forced smiles of those fox hosts that they are trying very hard to put a positive spin on the fact that the man who spent the last four years accusing joe biden of being too soft on china is using the very first moment of his presidency to cozy up to china's dictator. and they are not the only fox news hosts running cover for trump on this. >> this is a power move to intimidate the chinese leader. if he declines, it's disrespectful, and trump will take it personally. if he accepts, he'll be forced to observe president trump at his most powerful moment. >> that might be the most craven attempt to put a positive spin on trump's erratic behavior since this -- >> look directly at the sun

without any glasses. perhaps the most impressive thing any president's ever done. >> get ready for four more years of that. now jesse waters is right about one thing here -- trump's invitation to xi jinping is a power move, but not on behalf of the country, on behalf of donald trump himself. throughout his first presidency, trump repeatedly showed affection for america's autocratic adversaries while shunning our allies. the inescapable conclusion from all that is that trump really wants to be liked by those guys and actually just be like those guys. he wants america to be like the kleptoaccuratic governments of russia and china where they lavish with praise and gifts to enrich themselves. and america's rich and powerful appear pretty ready to indulge in that impulse this time around. the "wall street journal" is reporting that mark zuckerberg's meta, formerly facebook, has donated $1 million to donald

trump's inauguration. that comes just two weeks after zuckerberg reportedly dined with trump at mar-a-lago. this despite the fact that trump and his allies spent the last four years accusing zuckerberg and his companies of conspiring to steal the 2020 election. meanwhile, amazon, the company founded and run by billionaire jeff bezos, is also tonight reportedly contributing $1 million to trump's inauguration. to be clear, this is not normal. neither meta nor amazon have ever donated anywhere near this much money it an inauguration before. and trump is telling cnbc that bezos plans to pay trump a visit which comes after bezos, who owns "the washington post," scuttled the paper's endorsement. kamala harris ahead of this year's election and after bezos offered president trump words of praise last week. >> you've grown the last eight years, he has, too. what i've seen so far is that he

is calmer than he was the first time and more confident, more settled. >> trump's favorite billionaire, elon musk, just spent the weekend out at mar-a-lago with trump where he was hanging with victor orban, the very same hungarian strongman trump just invited to his inauguration. there's been a lot of handwringing about the political efficacy of calling donald trump an authoritarian strong man. whatever preliminary impact those terms do or do not have, the plans and meetings and invitations leading up to trump's inauguration really do suggest he meant what he said about being a dictator on day one. joining me now is senator chris murphy, democrat of connecticut and member of the senate committee on foreign relations. thank you for being here tonight. lets me first get your reaction to the notion that billionaires are bending the knee to trump.

billionaires who in one case or another often own press outlets like "the washington post." there is the "los angeles times" who seems to be currying favor with the maga right. what does this tell you about the government that is emerging in -- next january? >> i think we talk a lot about the coming dictatorship. i think what's really coming is what you would call an old -- oligarchy, i term you probably forgot from high school. it means a handful of really rich people run the government, and they steal from ordinary people using their access to government in order to make themselves and their families even richer. that is likely what we are heading for in the united states of america. i don't think it's a coincidence that trump's cabinet is filled with billionaires. there's more wealth on that

cabinet that 169 different nations. you sort of see all of these folk that could decide to stand up for our democracy instead, as you mentioned, bending the knee and deciding they're going to put their profits ahead of their loyalty to country. donald trump just put one of their handpicked guys in charge of the agency that oversees mergers in this country. the word is out that corporate consolidation is back in voerks even if it screws -- vogue, even if it screws consumers. that's part of the reason you see billionaires lining up to donate to trump, to meet with trump, because they know he is going to put them first, and he's going to put everybody else second, third, and fourth. that's what's coming here. >> what is -- what shock the conscience is the way it is so explicit. trump literally posted on truth social "any person or company investing $1 billion or more in

the united states of america will receive fully expedited approvals and permits including, but in no way limited to, all environmental approvals. get ready to rock. literally sacrificing the integrity of our land for corporate profit. i mean, i guess the trump argument is that's going to flow down to the worker. but we know better than that at this point, don't we? >> yeah, of course. trickle-down economics has never worked. it's a lie by rich people to make them think if you give them tax breaks or regulatory breaks they'll pass it down to workers. ask average workers in this country whether they've gotten the benefits of the trump tax breaks from 2017. they haven't. this specific proposal is absolutely bonkers. what he's saying is you'll get regulatory breaks in this country, but only if you are a billionaire. if you are a mom and pop factory that wants to add on a new wing to hire more local workers, you you don't get that deal from

trump. if you're a local housing developer and want to build more houses to lower the cost of mortgages in your community, you don't get that special deal. what he says with that social media post is billionaires get one set of rules, all the rest of us get a different set of rules. like how much more plainly could you make it that this is an oligarchy that's coming in which six or seven rich people played by one set of rules that allows them to enrich themselves, and the rests of us, including small and medium-sized businesses in this country, get screwed. he's telling you what he's doing. listen, i think we should start listening to him. >> it's an oligarchy, it also toys with like, you know, distinct nepotism. there is a "new york times," great piece of investigative reporting in "the new york times" tonight, that reveals that trump's middle east adviser, an individual named mass ad boulos, father-in-law of

trump's daughter tiffany, is -- the lore is he's a billionaire and has all this foreign, you know, business experience. but he basically runs a truck dealership. i believe in nigeria, which made under $66,000 in 2023. mr. boulos' stake, according to security filesings, is worth -- filings, is worth $1.53. hand it to him to. being a billionaire and -- to not being a billionaire and getting a job in the administration. it's a clept crazy. this person has no way to be -- you're on the senate foreign relations committee. what are the implications of having someone like this managing the ortfolio of the most volatile and key regions in the world? >> obviously this guy seems like he's a fraud. he manufactures educational background, he's not really rich. you know, it's very noble to run a truck dealership. nothing wrong with that. but even if he was a billionaire

that wouldn't make him qualified to be the primary adviser. he has no experience in middle east at a moment when that region is on fire. throughout the middle east in particular you're seeing this kleptocracy. after trump left office, his son-in-law, jared kushner, did a massive deal with saudi arabia in which saudi arabia promised billions of dollars to invest in kushner and his properties, properties that the trump family benefits from. there is no doubt that this administration's policy toward the middle east is going to could compromised -- to be compromised that they're making money from the people they're sitting across the table from and having a conversation about the interests of the united states. it's extraordinary that we have allowed for the normalization of trump's financial empire to be woven into the state-craft of this country. all that matters is how much money he makes, how much money

his family makes. and it comes at a cost to the rest of us. we'll see really bad policy made in the middle east because he's got unqualified people there. more so he's going to put his wealth and his family's wealth first. the national security of the country second. >> and his ego. the idea that he's inviting xi jinping prosecutor, the -- xi jinping, the leader of china, who there's bombshell reporting about operation salt typhoon, one of the most significant hacks of this country ever, right, it's chinese hackers breaking into american telecom systems, getting access to all kinds of records even encrypted ones. that whole sort of genre of spy-craft was largely grown and instituted by xi jinping in china. the same week donald trump is inviting xi jinping to attend the inauguration, which we're -- honestly, i'm with tim marlin this, i think trump -- miller on this, i think trump sees as a

coronation rather than an inauguration. the way kings and emperors had dignitaries and heads of states watch them take the crown. it feels like that for donald trump. it is an astounding study in contrast in terms of what matters to donald trump. >> listen, i wouldn't have a massive problem with inviting president xi if he was part of a longer invitation list of great powers in the world. that's not what's happening. the only great power that's getting an invitation is the dictatorship. the only country in europe that seems to be getting an invitation is the one that is quickly sliding away from democracy. it is just this big middle finger to the country, telling everybody that these are the kind of governments he models and looks up to. places where ordinary people have no power, where if you try to stand up to the leader you get thrown in jail. he told us during the campaign that the big evidence threat to this country -- biggest threat to this country wasn't china,

russia, a terrorist organization, it was democrats. that's what he said. he put in charge the department of justice and the fbi people that would go after democrats. and he is doubling down that by inviting the chinese and the hung aarons -- hungarians rather than our democratic allies to be at the swearing-in. >> are you going to be at the swearing-in? >> somebody asked me that today, and i actually hadn't thought about it. i've always gone -- i've always gone to swearing-ins. i think respecting the transition of power is important. but if between now and then we continue to get this kind of disdain for the rule of law, if a swearing-in ends up becoming just a signal that that day and the day after is going to be the last days of democracy in this country, yeah, i think every single person who loves this nation and who loves the constitution should probably think twice about being part of that kind of anti-democratic spectacle. >> senator murphy, great to talk with you. thanks for the time tonight, sir. >> thank you. we have much more to get to

tonight. have you heard that donald trump has chosen a new voice of america? and she sounds a lot like kari lake. first, today new york city's prodigal son returned to the red letter day, opening the new york stock exchange against the backdrop of his very own "time" magazine cover. who will his return to washington, d.c., mean for your wallet, your finances? that's next. that's next.

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we will end inflation and make america affordable again. we're going to get the prices down. we have to get them down. it's too much -- groceries, cars, everything, we're going to get the prices down. we will cut your taxes and inflation, slash your prices. but prices will come down, you just watch. they'll come down and come down fast. >> one of donald trump's signature campaign pledges was to end inflation and slash prices. now that the election is over, he's changing his tune. the cover story for "time" magazine, just released today, trump was asked to consider whether failure to lower grocery prices would, in turn, make his presidency a failure. he responded, "i don't think so. it's hard to bring things down once they're up. you know, it's very hard." trump's sudden bout of honesty

here follows an interview with nbc's kristen welker who asked trump whether his plans for widespread tariffs might raise prices for americans. >> can you guarantee american families won't pay more? >> i can't guarantee anything. i can't guarantee tomorrow. >> joining me, chief political adviser to senator bernie sanders and formerly, currently, i'm not sure, is that the right introduction in michelle goldberg for "the new york times." thank you both for being here tonight. fas, we'll correct your intro in the outro. i wonder if you are at all surprised that donald trump is saying explicitly out there in public, yeah, i'm -- probably won't be able to rule over grocery prices and tariffs might hit american households. >> it is the recallity, but he's -- reality, but he's making a choice between what joe biden was trying to reduce prices, the

federal trade organization was fighting the kroger and albertsons merger, an effort to bring prices down. trump says no, all my billionaire friends, they don't like this kind of stuff. we're going to end the regulation. so even the action that could be construed as helping to bring down prices, he's actively against. of course he has to land that -- there's nothing much we can do here, guys. you know, i've campaigned on it, but good luck to you all. >> michelle, i -- i don't know, when i -- when he literally said it's hard to bring -- hard to lower prices once they go up, it's like -- of course -- the emoji with the head with the exploding -- the explosion coming out of the top of the head? i mean, does anybody hold this individual accountable -- to account for saying something like that and for admitting that prices may not come down at all? >> well, i mean, the chances to hold donald trump to account for

anything are gone. people may in fact hold the republican party to account if they find that their economic situation hasn't improved or in some cases has gotten worse, you know, because donald trump, he's going to remain laina kahn with someone who is much more in favor of mergers and unfair trade practices. he's going to open up the government to all of his billionaire cronies. he's going to or people in his administration have plans to kick people off of medicaid or make it harder for them to get. and so in a lot of ways -- there's always been something of a divorce between the way that donald trump performs and the way that he is seen by his most fervent acolytes. you already see republicans' perception of the economy change overnight after he was elected. and so for a lot of people,

their perceptions of the economy and even of their own economic situation is highly partisan. i guess the question is about the people who are maybe more disconnected from politics, who voted for donald trump only because they thought that it was going to reverse inflation or reverse some of the economic -- the post-covid economic changes that they blame on joe biden. whether they will be disillusioned when they find that none of these promises are going to be kept. >> i just feel like, fas, today was such an indicator in the -- the stagecraft of today with him ringing the bell at the new york stock exchange in front of the picture of him on the cover of "time" magazine was really donald trump's greatest dream come true. but also a statement of trels and priorities -- prep and priorities. he's wanted to be surrounded by wealthy people with more wealthy people coming to support his administration -- ringing the bell at the stock exchange and saying this, let's listen to what he had to say. this is at the nyse.

i think we have it. >> we're cutting ur taxes, got them down to 21% from probably 42% or 44% depending on where you are. we got them down to 21, everyone said that was a miracle. now we're getting them down to 15. but only if you make your product here. otherwise you pay 21, which is not bad. >> it's all about corporations. this is it. this is what he is, who he's always been, this is the trump tax cuts on steroids that we're about to see in a second term. what did you make of that? >> i remember when you and i -- we filed for 515 for a long time. it was raising the minimum wage to 15. here his fight for 15 is to lower the corporate tax rate. the question is what problem are you trying to solve? honestly, what's the issue here? we've got strong economic growth, billionaires and wealthy people doing great, the stock market's up. if you're going to offer people a trust to large corporations, wealthy people, what -- there

isn't really a problem. the issue to address is greater income in wealth and inequality which people are getting screwed around in the middle clarks and he's offering nothing now. in is where the influence of billionaire class is important. when they're around him, they're advocating, if you're a billionaire, how did you get that rich? you usually found a way in the tax loophole, some regulatory carve-out that helped you get rich. that's how you have things like the hedge fund loophole in the tax code. if you're a hedge fund billionaire, you get favored taxation. that's what they're looking for, that's what they're fighting for. that's the stuff we as democrats have fighting to put on to the agenda against these guys who want to just dole out favors to the billionaire class. >> you know, michelle, i mean, i -- i absolutely understand what you're saying by the time to hold trump accountable is over. in theory he's not running again. but holding the republican party accountable, they are going to fall had line lock-- fall in lion lockstep.

they've shown no -- what should democrats do given how naked the ambitions to coddle the richest, given how naked trump's ambitions are here and how explicit the favoritism toward the corporate class, the corporate billionaire class is. what is the correct response from democrats? >> i think that what the correct response is not is some of what you've seen -- you've seen a lot of bipartisan overtures, a lot of willingness among certain democrats to say that they're going to vote for various members of trump's prospective cabinet. and you know, on the one hand i understand you just lost an election, you kind of have -- you can't act as if you want it. at the same time, i think that for a lot of democrats they feel like the party that's supposed to be leading them is just kind of rolling over and showing its belly at a time when we're on the verge of, as chris murphy

said, on the verge of transformation into a kind of fully corrupt oligarchy. you would like to see democrats fighting that and pointing it out. i think it's important for people to understand -- there was a perception of donald trump for a long time that donald trump represented a fundamental break with paul ryan-ism. that people hated it with the lust for tax cutting and entitle. reform and all -- entitlement reform and all the rest. and donald trump was a different kind of republican with a different kind of economic policy. what we're seeing so far is the signs are that this incoming administration is going to be, you know, with some exceptions, tariffs and the like. but in terms of its attitude toward both the government safety net and toward income inequality and taxes is going to be, you know, paul ryan-ism on steroids. >> do you think one part of this resonates more deeply with the american public than another?

and by that i mean like the tax cuts he talked about explicitly on the campaign trail, he got elected. but having a cabinet, having an upper administration that is worth $340 billion, like that's a new thing. that seems like if you're a working class american that thought donald trump had it out -- was going to be fighting for you, does that have more resonance? i'm wondering what was the data that we've gotten so far about what this administration is going to look like and how much it is an oligarchy or kleptocracy in the making, what part is most effectively weaponized that democrats try to make the case that drill is not a -- donald trump is not a friend to the working class? >> right now we're watching them fight among themselves and a billionaire class and lobbyist group in d.c. to get their agenda. obviously he's not president yet. he hasn't put forward his tax bill. haven't gotten the tariffs or figured out what his immigration raids are going to do. we got judgments about where they're likely to go, but we don't have the concreteness.

when the concreteness comes, i think, michelle is mentioned it, there is a lethargy. it bothers me, along the democratic crowd, that isn't quite at the same level of ready for the fight. i'm hoping that once the actions start coming, we got to fight -- these are -- we can't take these lying down, if you're making decisions that are going to -- totally kind of ruin the next generation of america in a major way with terrible financial judgments and decisions. i'm hoping that when he starts to make some of these and you and i can start to figure out some of them like when a billionaire class in the doge suggests that we want to end meals on wheels, food stamps, cut medicaid, you know, find all kinds of cuts that really disproportionately hurt working class people, that's mobilization time. that's action. now you've got the harmed recipient, the people we know have been purposely targeted by trump, that i think hopefully

get us to the place of let's engineer a movement in america. >> when ge is reality. i can't believe we have to say the word doge as much as we're going to. but we are. that's the least of the indignities. still, thank you, my friends, for your time this evening. >> thank you. coming up, twice failed arizona senate and gubernatorial candidate and robust election denier kari lake is known for her disdain for journalists. and the truth. i'll find out what will happen now that kari lake will lead the independent news service. stay with us. ws service stay with us

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it's time to take a sledgehammer to the mainstream media's lies and propaganda. ♪♪ >> that was the failed republican candidate kari lake in one of the ads from her race for governor of arizona in 2022. last night president-elect trump announced lake as his pick to run one of the most important media outlets, voice of america. since world war ii the congressionally funded news outlet has operated with the mission to provide free and comprehensive news coverage all across the globe. today voa broadcasts to a weekly audience of more than 350 million people in nearly 50 languages. it broadcasts in places that distinctly do not have a free

press like china and venezuela, and even though its broadcasts were banned in russia after putin invaded ukraine, the network's russian language website is still up and running and providing factual information to people in russia who access it through encrypted internet connections. since the network's founding, its purpose has been to brie a counterbalance to propaganda put out by nations like russia and china, and to promote democracy around the world just by giving people access to the truth. and now donald trump wants to put kari lake in charge. >> i'm kari lake. you might recognize me from tv. i worked as a journalist and a news anchor for 27 years right here in arizona. so i know the ins and outs of the corporate media, and i know how corrupt it is. it's not reporting, it's propaganda, and it's biased. it's unethical. journalism is dead.

>> you probably know kari lake best for her refusal to concede after losing both her 2020 run for governor of arizona and her run to represent arizona in the senate just last month. lake was also one of the most vocal proponents of the big lie that the 2020 presidential election was rigged. she made quite a name for herself as an anti-vax, anti-mask, covid conspire exist who pushed hydroxychloroquine. to give a sense of what she find truthful and good, the show she decided to go after trump announced he was his pick to run voice of america, it was "steve bannon's war room" podcast. here is kari lake after steve bannon asked why she thought she was the right person to lead the voa. >> i've been in broadcast journalism for 30 years. but as most people in the war room posse know, i walked away

from a luke rabb contract -- lucrative contract during covid after the government was pushing so many lies about covid, its origins, what kind of treatment we were allowed to have, about the vaccine, on top of that when the 2020 election, when that went down and that was rigged, i did not want to sit and push the government line. i really cherished my time as a journalist. when it became apparent it was getting impossible to be in journalism in a worldtationen over by propaganda -- world taken over by propaganda i chose to walk away rather than stay in it. >> does that sound like the voice of america to you? npr's media correspondent david fulkanflict joins me next. t joi.

. the news was bad. america had been at war just 79 days. a uboat had fired on california, and the president struggled to improve arms production. ♪♪ >> this is the voice speaking from america. >> the voice of america was born. >> in 1942, the first voice of america broadcast began with a promise to listeners in occupied europe. it would tell listeners the truth, whether the news was good or bad. for the past 82 years, the federally funded independent network has worked to honor that promise with objective reporting for an estimated audience of 354

million people worldwide in nearly 50 languages. and that is why there is considerable alarm that donald trump wants the next director of the voice of america to be kari lake, a former local tv news anchor-turned-staunch election denier who regularly demonizes both the truth and the media. joining me now is david fulkanflict, npr media correspondent. a wealth of information on this subject. david, lake said in a tweet this week, "undermy leadership the voa will excel in its mission chronicling america's achievements worldwide." i don't think, but i don't think that's the voa's mission at all. is it, david? >> that could be part of the diet of news provided the global audience along with debate and dissent and other news developments in the u.s. that reflect both tooly and wonderfully on this -- poorly

and wonderfully on this notion. the voice of america is performing small deed -- democratic service in two ways. it is providing as you've laid out to viewers a service particularly in countries that don't have a robust and free press, that it provides news reports that are reliable even for listeners and viewers who are accessing these reports and regimes that don't allow domestic news outlets to provide that themselves that. and secondly, it's modeling what a liberal democracy, again small l, small d, can be by saying, look, we acknowledge there are news reports and developments that don't reflect well on our public officials, on our government leaders, even the people at the top of the pyramid of the executive branch, whether democrat or republican, and we are going to present that to you because, a, we think you need it to be well informed, and b, we want to show you what a free press really looks like. simply talking about america's

achievements, that's a pr element. talking about america's news, that's a network. >> it fells like it dovetails with the conservative mission to rewrite history whether it's talking about institutional racism or slavery and otherwise ban books that challenge or critique american institutions. it sounds like kari lake wants to focus only on the positive and that anything that critiques the presidency, the institution of the presidency, the administration, i don't know, republican platforms that are ascend ant in the republican trifecta of having the courts, the executive and ledgeslative -- legislative branch, that that will be censored. do you a sense of how that would change what is happening at voa at present? >> well, i think you'd see an enormous drain of the talent of people who have covered so many countries, so many regimes, at times uncovered developments that weren't being robustly reported on by other news

outlets because they have the acumen and the expertise in these foreign lands. but furthermore, you know, we can look back to the end of trump's first term, trump had wanted to appoint a controversial former documentarian and corporation for public broadcasting official named michael pack. and his nomination language for a few years -- he rammed it through in late spring of 2020, why? the white house went on the attack against, you know, a network owned by the federal government and operated not here but abroad. "the voice of america," because president trump felt at that time that it was not reporting and that the covid-19 outbreak was squarely the fault of the communist party government in china. and he felt that it was offerings chinese propaganda. you saw the white house put out official statements attacking the voice of america and the sort of taste? republicans re-- sort of senate republicans approved it. at which point he waved a seven,

eight-month civil war on the professionalism of "voice of america." two parts. one is it was on the professionalism of the "voice of america" and its parent agency, the u.s. agency for global media, and, therefore, trying to erode the nonpartisan, non-politicized nature of most of the work force there which is a template of how the mp administration looked at the larger administration and looks again at how it wants to handle appointments and employees in the work force in the white house in trump 2.0. the second thing, of course, is he lumped in the "voice of america" and its soft diplomacy abroad promoting american democratic values. with the larger press, which at that time he was attacking as state news all the time. that is the banner that, of course, kari lake is flying under, whether or not she ever makes it in this position or not, that is the agenda that they have to try to bring this institution and this independent network to heal, to represent

not just in their occasional -- acknowledging occasionally what the official position of the american government is, but reflecting it as though fully fact regardless of what the fact on the grounds may be. >> i think that that posture extend to, as you say, the larger media, the broader media, the white house press room. eric trump this week said during a podcast episode that the incoming president is considering opening up the press room to a lot of independent journalists. we should be clear about who eric trump thinks is an -- like an independent journalist. that could be joe rogan, the nelk boys. what's your expectation for the upheaval that that brady briefing press room, a critical exchange and forum for debate with the press and administration, what that might look like in a matter of weeks? >> look, in any other moment if you were ask me how well do you think the white house press court does in holding administrations, government officials of both parties accountable, i might take issue with the ways in which it's done it. sometimes for performative and

playing to the tv cameras. there are moments, important moments, where you hear questions that bubbled up in the american electorate or in news reports that need to be challenged and tested in real time, in public view, and that's what that -- you know, press briefing room is all -- is affording and allowing. when president biden proved not to be up for the job in the view of, you know, many tens of millions of americans, republicans and democrats, you saw that being posed to his representatives at that lectern again because that's the form in which it takes place. i don't know if joe rogan or vaughn wants to spend times lingering around in tiny cubicles for the chance to ask officials questions. joe rogan wants people to come to austin to his studio, right? at the same time, if you displace -- i don't care about bringing people in so much -- but if you displace people who are providing accountability, who work for independent outlets, who are asking impertinent and inconvenient questions that have public purchase and meaning, that's a

problem indeed. >> as someone who used to sit in one of those rows in the press room, i can attest the kitchen is very small. that does not mean that the work is not very important. david fulkanflict, thank you for your time. great to have you on the show. >> you bet. we'll be right back. et we'll be right back.

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let's power on! power on with the leader in connectivity. get wifi backup for your business, or get started with comcast business internet. and for a limited time, get an $800 holiday bonus. call today. as republicans gear up to take over washington next month and celebrate all that winning, we got a study this week in how to respond to the moment if you are skeptical that america is about to be made great again. sarah longwell, host of "the

bulwark" podcast and conservative political strategist was seated at a "new york times" event on a panel that included some of trump's biggest enablers. this is what she did when former speaker of the house kevin mccarthy tried to rewrite history. >> independents believe the greatest threat to democracy was joe biden getting reelected. >> the difference between what the american people think and what's true. so the idea -- i don't know why -- i don't know what we are -- the defense of maker errick gar sure, donald trump lied about an election being stolen and sinned a mob at the capitol. it's funny that you rolled your eyes because you resurrected. do you know want to know what happened in the 2024 election? we elected most dangerous criminal human being, corrupt human being, that america has ever elected. and kevin, you helped him. you're the one who went and got him after -- >> you're welcome. you're welcome. >> sure, thank you. >> okay. >> and in doing so -- in doing

so, you enabled this. and so joe biden -- the idea that joe biden's justice department is the problem here as opposed to donald trump and the fact that he tried to overturn an election and sicked people on the capitol is -- i don't know if people let you get away with that in rooms all the time, but you should never be allowed to get away. >> okay. >> here's to more of that energy in 2025. that is our show for tonight. a reminder, you can listen to every single episode of "alex wagner tonight" as a podcast for free. scan the qr code on the screen or search for "alex wagner tonight" wherever you get your podcasts. "way too early with jonathan lemire" is up next. with the hegseth nomination, gabbard, some of the others, i think the pressure has been irresistible, raw, political pressure is turning the tide with some of them, turning their minds. the threat of a primary, let's be blunt,