was also denied. i love you, mommy. michelle young: i love you, too, cassidy. keith morrison (voiceover): but children know little of the arcane world of motions and appeals. cassidy has grown-- her father, her mother, snatches of memory, ever father away. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. [music playing] welcome to this saturday edition of morning joe heard let's get right to some of the conversations you may have missed this week.

i would shut down the fbi hoover building on day one and reopen it the next day as a museum of the deep state. >> he also said he would arrest journalists who did not go along with the 2020 stop the steal conspiracy. >> kash patel is at the spear of donald trump's petition. he has to this point largely flown under the radar in the confirmation hearings process because matt gaetz took a lot of the oxygen and now a lot of the focus is on pete hegseth. they are thrilled that trump did not have to push him out, rather, stepping aside. but moving on, it does most likely put more spotlight on patel. he is someone that not only

does not have the qualifications for this job but has made very incendiary pledges that would be far beyond the purview of the job. >> let's bring in dan goldman from new york. he is a member of the house oversight homeland security committee and also served as lead counsel in donald trump's first impeachment. it is interesting in that kristen welker interview. if you read between the lines, donald trump was going to get rid of christopher wray but he never came out and said he was going to fire chris wray. do you think the fbi director made a mistake, making things easier for donald trump in this case? >> this is exactly the difference between a nonpartisan, political fbi and the political world donald trump inhabits. christopher wray wanted to do what was best for the fbi. that is not what i would say is best for the country.

i would have much rather he waited and make donald trump justify firing him rather than resigning. but because christopher wray cares about the justice system, rule of law and fbi, he did the best thing for the organization. not necessarily for himself. i think it was somewhat shocking to see donald trump statement yesterday in response even putting aside that he accused the fbi of impeaching him. of course he goes after him about the search of mar-a-lago, which, by the way, was approved by a judge who found probable cause was presented. the idea that christopher wray went rogue and did a search warrant, of course is belied by how our justice system and due process works. it was a well-deserved search

based on the facts that we read and donald trump is just bitter because it was against him. >> i'm curious about your thoughts, just looking at that resignation. chris wray had a chance to stay in and fight like jay powell who said i'm not going anywhere. the thing about donald trump, we've seen in the past, a lot of times he will push up to the line, hold and wait. shouldn't have chris wray stayed in there for the sake of history, so history would record that donald trump fired two fbi directors, unprecedented. one of them and fbi director he appointed himself. >> i think he should have stayed, 100%. everybody's got to kind of hit the barricades right now and do what is best for the country, best for themselves and the agency. this was a unique opportunity to have one of those guardrails

of what we have, and at least there would be some continuity there in the fbi so things would go harrop scarab. and if there is such thing as a department of revenge and retribution, that is where it will be emanating from, from kash patel and the people he brings in. it is unfortunate, wray could have stayed in three or six months and then perhaps act out. >> you obviously know the law enforcement world so well. wray says he did not want to be a distraction to the fbi. others say he maybe should have stayed in until trump pulled the trigger. what are your thoughts on that and your concerns about trump's replacement for wray, kash patel. >> christopher wray ran from the building. he is still in a world of

norms. he should have stayed and fought and forced trump to fire him. his replacement is likely to be confirmed by the senate. kash patel was a public defender in miami. he was on team normal for a while. he was a likable guy, not part of the ultra maga. but he changed during the russia investigation and was investigated himself. took a lot of time and money out of his own pockets and some would say it radicalized him. now it is a different kash patel. he is all jacked up now and ready to go. i do think there is a guard rail, i know pam bondi and i think she will make sure that any investigation on the investigators will have to be tethered to the rule of law. i don't believe she will just walk out trump's enemies in

handcuffs willy-nilly. >> let me ask, i was surprised earlier this morning, david rowe, who is one of the fiercest defenders of the rule of law and a guy who was constantly talking about his concerns. he actually said in his conversations with people in the fbi and doj that despite some of pam bondi statements, that they agree with you that she is actually a safeguard of some of the radicalism. do you think that is the case when you have donald trump saying these people should be arrested, those people should be arrested? >> pam bondi is a 20 year prosecutor and has worked with democrats and republicans

alike. i would be shocked if she decides to do whatever trump tells her to do regardless of the law. you can look at her career and see she has tethered to the rule of law. even when she makes these comments on fox news is as a different role as an analyst or commentator then it is as attorney general. i think she will ultimately do what she thinks is necessary to carry out his priorities but will only go so far. she will learn the rule of john durham, he was humiliated when he investigated the investigators. she does not want that to happen to her. >> let me restate this for people on the west coast, i think at the end of the day when they think about it, the people around trump are going to say, you do not want to lift the rock back up from the january 6 investigation. you do not want the testimony of your i.t. person to leak out. you do not want the itu

testimony about the cameras and the possible flooding. all of this stuff, i don't think that is in his best interest politically. let alone the best interest of the country. >> donald trump himself believes he benefited from sitting in a courtroom in manhattan looking like a martyr. do you really want anthony fauci and adam schiff and liz cheney to become super mortars? >> we've got a lot more morning joe weekend coming up right after the break. -really? -yeah. anything is cashbackable!!! chill. sorry! 'tis the season to cashback with chase freedom unlimited.

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i have one, too. i'd be so lost without mine. we are talking about mentors, right? yes. a mentor can guide you. support you. and unlock your potential. being a mentor can be just as life-changing. you can create opportunities. and inspire the next generation. helping someone find their path can transform your own. so find a mentor. or become one. wait, can i do both? you know what? let me ask my mentor. of course, you can. bring someone along on your journey. and see where it takes you. liz cheney was behind it and so was benny thompson and everybody on that committee. for what they did, honestly, they should go to jail. >> you think liz cheney should go to jail?

everyone on the committee you think should go to jail? are you going to director fbi director and attorney general to send them to jail? >> not at all. they will have to look at that but i will focus on drill, baby, drill. >> the oversight committee chair told the bull work, "with politicians, if you've used a congressional committee and you've lied and tried to set up people and mostly imprison people, then you should be held accountable." >> that is quite a confession from james comer who lied repeatedly about joe biden. >> timber chad said committee members should be imprisoned if they broke the law and suggested without proof that the committee manipulated evidence and lauren boebert --

>> all right, i don't care. go see a play. >> let's get your response, that members of the january 6 select committee should be jailed. and republicans on the hill suggesting that there democratic colleagues deserve that feed. >> it is baffling. the january 6 committee did an investigation upheld by the courts of law, totally legitimate and part of their duties. but just the fact that donald trump did not like what happened, means those people should go to jail says everything you need to know about what his expectation is for kash patel, pam bondi and

the department of justice. that is why kash patel is there. he is also promised to go after donald trump oh political enemies. i sat on a weaponization subcommittee for two years led by republicans. they did not demonstrate a single instance of weaponization by the federal government, joe biden administration or house democrats and here they are trying to ignore the fact that donald trump oh entire thing is to do just that. it is not just bad for political enemies and the system, it undermines our entire rule of law, undermines the credibility of every single prosecution out there. and you see that because defendants all around the country are making these allegations that their prosecutions are political. he has already undermined institutions and will go much further if kash patel is confirmed. and i disagree with dave. i think senate republicans will

uphold their duty and their oath to the constitution and not donald trump and will recognize that kash patel is unqualified and should not be the fbi director. >> you speak of political enemies of donald trump reduce serve as lead counsel in the first impeachment trial from when trump was in office the last time. would you be considered a political enemy and are you fearful that you could be targeted or prosecuted? >> i have been on enemy lists and i guess that is a possibility. i hope they put their attention on me and not the good men and women who are career public servants in the federal government who are just doing their jobs and really subject to retribution. i can happily and ably stand up for myself and i have a megaphone here in congress and a speech and debate clause and defenses. if he is going to attack his

enemies, please, bring it on, donald trump. >> with that, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. let's bring into the conversation, cohost of the weekend, simone sanders townsend. >> you just heard what the congressman said, bring it on. people close to mark milley are saying that he is saying the same thing, bring it on. the white house has floated the possibility that jack smith said, not on your life. i want him to come after me. i want to fight him, i can take care of myself. it is very interesting, we have all this talk about the possibility of all these people being pardoned. i am sure that liz cheney feels the same way. we spoke to the new senator from california. he basically felt the same way.

very interesting, a lot of people saying, you want to come after us, we are prepared and ready and looking forward to it. >> i know the great douglas brinkley is sitting with you all and he noted that this is a time for people who, look, if you really believed donald trump was a threat to democracy, if you believe the only guard rail left are the defenders of democracy, then people like senator schiff, congressman goldman, liz cheney, jack smith, it is correct that they should say, i'm willing to stand here and fight. that is easy for someone who is not on the list but one could argue that director wray, part of his decision-making that i have heard from some folks from within the fbi and outside say,

look, he didn't want to drag the fbi through this. he did not want to be the focus. he wanted the focus to be on the work and if he was a hindrance to the work, he wanted to go. i'm just kind of like, i wonder if we all would make the same decision. this is a time when obviously the line in some respects has moved and the question people should be asking themselves is not should we be normalizing donald trump because that is moot. he will be the 47th president of the united states. the question is, where is the line, what is and is not acceptable. guardrails are not laws, they are norms that we all except until we don't accept them anymore. many things that i've seen donald trump to in his first term when we got to the white house, i was just like, oh, we

can just do whatever we want to do. joe biden does not believe that. he was his own guard rail. but guardrails are not rules. i would just say that donald trump investigated people and he still has time. he asked for investigations into the fbi. we just need to be honest. it is not a question of will he do this, the question is how far will he go. coming up next, breaking down how the media is splintering into dozens of news bubbles and why finding common ground could become even more complex. that conversation straight ahead on morning joe weekend. [ cheering ] what are invoices? progressive makes it easy to see if you can save money

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how are folks 60 and older having fun these days? family cookouts! ♪♪ playing games! ♪♪ dancing in the par... (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) jim and mike, you were out with the recent piece about how

americans consume their news. it is entitled shards of glass, inside medias 12 splintering realities in which you label and explain the dozen different ecosystems you say modern media consumers inhabit. starting with the musketeers. take it from here. >> it goes back to the beginning of this conversation. there is a big segment of the country who thinks it is okay to pardon people who stormed the capital on january 6. the most useful thing for viewers is, stop thinking about news and start thinking about information. it is where the consumer a little bit of news and that is like the information bubble. it used to be that all of us kind of look through the same window. a couple of newscasts and cable

stations. that has now been shattered. so tell me how much you make, where you work and what you do and i will tell you where you get your information from. that information bubble you live in could be completely different than the person sitting next to you. that is what's new. if you are young guy who was interested in fitness and vaguely interested in the news, you are getting your news from the musketeers. and what is really fascinating to me is you could be sitting at a table with different people of different ages and reaches and everyone around the table my be getting their news from a platform you've never visited, people they trust that you've never heard of. that is new and i think we have to reckon with a lot of our

politics and cultural issues. it is all downstream from information. if you are in business and interested in what is happening around the country you have to get your mind around the shattered glass phenomenon. >> you pick in terms of once you feel are most important. there is the right wing grandpas. but the kids, tiktok. which is the very future of that platform. >> here is a fascinating fact about these fragmented realities, shards of glass. because their is very little overlap among them, you tell me your job, income, location and your age, i can put you in one of these shards. whereas we used to say, there is not a shared reality anymore, now there are not even shared topics like the instagrammers or right wing

grandpas that you mentioned. case in point, last week i was asked to go on tv and talk about the pardons. they said, can you go on and talk about law fair. that is probably not nbc or msnbc. so, different topics and here is a real regal, the white house communications director, sr. adviser told me that when they are looking at americans, voters, consumers ages 18 to 35, they could be the something that is the lead of the morning joe or axios and they are not even aware of it. were it is in eight or nine second clip with a total different context. so it becomes a remix on tiktok. >> and of course the universe

that axios and morning joe fit neatly on is what universe? >> it is people who are looking to get informed about what is happening on a day-to-day basis, largely to do their job or because they are deeply involved in government or civic debates. on a good day you might have 2 million viewers. that is not 330 million people. it is a very valuable slice, people who are running companies, media and government go to get informed. but there could be an entire population of people taking little pieces of that and running with it in ways that would be indistinguishable to how we even talk or write about it. you could say that this sucks and you really want to go back, but you cannot go back in time. the world is changing and

basically there is this collision of information consumption in politics, business/politics all at once. i think new businesses will be born from it and our job is to look at this stuff as clinical as possible. be curious and not condescending. up next, my conversation with bill clinton, the talk about the political landscape of the day and we get into it and also what has changed since we served together in washington. that discussion straight ahead on morning joe weekend. joe we and so did our business needs. the chase ink card made it easy. when you go for something big like this, your kids see that. and they believe they can do the same. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card from chase for business.

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i sat down with former president bill clinton at his presidential library. we discussed his new book that was written after his life in the white house. >> we are living in a time when we are deeply and yet fairly closely divided. donald trump won a fairly healthy electoral victory for a simple reason. a lot of voters who thought trump was economically successful before covid hit and they got that check from him in

the mail, more democrats than republicans voted for the bill but he said he will sign it. and vice president harris had an almost impossible job. she became a candidate at a time when no one else had legal access to money and there were no time for primaries. she was in effect a stranger to people. people knew what they liked about trump and what they did in. and about 54% of them would have happily voted for someone else. but people didn't feel that they knew about harris. >> we are still a 50-50 nation. i know the day after, democrats were in shock. but the further you get out

it's like, wisconsin was lost by less than 1%, michigan by 1.2%, the same with pennsylvania. and yet democratic senators won in those states. the progressive democratic senator won in arizona. we are still such a closely divided nation politically. aren't we? >> i think that a lot of it is the information system. that's why i think we should all be talking to each other and not playing demographic games. >> i want to read something you wrote in the book about the 2016 election. this whole thing is hard for me to write. i could not sleep for two years after the election. i was so angry, i wasn't fit to be around. i apologize to all those who endured my outbursts of rage which lasted for years and bothered or bored people who

thought it was pointless to rehash things that couldn't be changed. in this chapter i've tried to calmly write about the darkest election possible in the united states because it is important to understand what happened. >> it's easier for us to know what happened in 2016 in some ways than what happened in 2024. because in 2016 you had two highly unusual things. first of all, the mainstream media told the american people that the biggest issue was these hillary emails. but she neither sent or received a single solitary email on her personal device.

and two, she followed the rules as they existed. the rules were changed after she left office. and yet the whole story was written as though she had to done something hideous and james comey made it worse. >> in his july press conference where he came out and said she was not indicted but he said he was going to pontificate about what he thought. >> i told the story in the book about when president obama called to tell me that bin laden had been killed in this successful rate, he said, we did it. i said, did what? he said, we got bin laden, hillary didn't tell you? >> you told your people not to tell anybody. she did not tell anybody.

it was ludicrous, the extent at which people went to essentially fabricate a smear on her and i think they did it because they had to mention something bad about her to not say something bad about trump. >> the hunter biden pardon, you look at the first 5 to 7 stories on the new york times, it is all about that. first five, six, seven on the washington post, all about that. the same day that a man is picks to be the next fbi director who said he had a list of enemies over 60 long and he was going to throw reporters, journalists and editors in jail. it is true that it is highly unlikely that anyone that was

where hunter biden was, facing a substantial jail sentence for something he did under the influence of drugs and when he has paid back his fines for all the taxes he owed. whenever you think about that, it pales in comparison with the deliberate use of the criminal justice system. this whole thing has been thrown off for several years now. because of the dominance of what i call roy cohen politics. he was senator joe mccarthy's adviser and he was donald trump's fathers political adviser. and roy cohen said, no matter what happens, always deny

everything, always attack and accuse other people of doing what you are doing. pretty soon, the most important people who believe that are your own supporters. and then, nobody believes anybody about anything. we need to go back to where people live and talk to them about what they are interested in. it is easy to underestimate the intelligence of people when they are focusing on what they care about. but you've got to deal with what people are living with. president biden will leave office with more jobs created in his four years in any previous four-year period in history. if the number were 50 million, it would be about 16 to 18, if it were 50 million it would be

nowhere near the number of people affected by inflation. so you have to discuss these things. you can't pretend, no business, marriage or friendship, nothing can succeed and thrive if you don't deal with the pink elephant in the room. >> talk about how democrats maybe can learn from that and maybe stop firing at each other and working together. >> i don't even believe the root problem is whether you should be more verbally left or center. i think you've got to talk like people talk who will make a difference in the outcome of the election. you don't have to sell out what you believe in.

but you do have to meet people where they live. and you can't get very far avoiding it. you and i have been friends for years. we have our political differences and our political history. what i know we do and i like you. suppose you and me did a makeover of your living room and you asked me to come visit and i visit and it is beautiful. everything is beautiful except in the corner you have this beautiful curved couch but behind the couch there is a pink elephant. now, i could ask you, i guess you are still a republican and you just turned a little pink, it does not matter what i say. the one thing i cannot do is to come in, drink your coffee, talk about how beautiful your

living room is and turn around and not mention the pink elephant. >> coming up, keira knightley joins us to talk about her netflix series and also her favorite christmas movie of all time. it's diehard, we will be right back. right back. life, diabetes, there's no slowing down. each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do. that's why you choose glucerna to help manage blood sugar response. uniquely designed with carbsteady. glucerna. bring on the day.

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she has been feeding us government secrets for 10 years now. >> anything you want to tell me? >> no. >> this morning a man was killed on the side of the bank. you might have compromised yourself. and now it is time to get to

work. >> hello, darling. >> a shotgun. >> that actually reminded me of a scene in love actually. >> no, no. that was a look at the new netflix series entitled black doves. it stars nonna me award-winning actress keira knightley. a london-based housewife married to a defense minister who leads a covert life as a spy. she goes on in action pack quest for revenge. and she joins us now. on the heels of her nomination

for a golden globe in the category of best performance by an actress in a tv drama series and also serves as executive producer on black doves. congratulations on all of this. >> thank you, it's rather nice. i landed in new york. >> how do you prepare for this character who is leading a double life to say the least and actually has a fight scene pregnant with twins. she is special. >> i was channeling the mom rage. i was really taking it from the school run. you know when you weren't there with your children and can't get them out and then you get there and see the first mom at the gate and say, hi! i based the entire thing on that. >> we were laughing as we came in with that trailer because i

was describing how intense that scene was. that is quite a scene. you've had such an incredible career and have been nominated for a couple of awards. and now here you are in this netflix series. it does feel like ever since you've gotten into this business in new world has opened up where you can do cinematic quality work like this. how much fun was that you? >> i wanted to do pure entertainment and this one has that melancholy that is known in the spy genre. but it is fun and serious at the same time. >> there really has been an art where everybody used to talk about movies.

when you were here we were talking about, say nothing. it really seems that culture has moved to the sort of things you are doing here. >> it's so nice because you get to explore strange stories and strange people. the character i play is leading multiple lives and her morality is questionable. and you get to explore that. >> another striking character of the film is london itself. >> it is. it was made by a bunch of londoners and we wanted to represent it in the way that we live in it. it is a punk kind of vibe. >> we are all very punk. >> and i'm looking very punk. i got the memo.

>> imitation game, pride and prejudice, love actually, you have had so many incredible roles in your resume, what is different about this one as a female lead and what you like about that? >> i suppose the violence in it is different. i haven't done action for about 18 years. it was a bit of a shock but it was remarkably fun. which again may be goes back to the mom rage. i am a mom of two very lovely small children. it is very lovely. >> i will say, the fight scene we saw was very convincing. was the action part a blast? >> it was. i really enjoyed it. in the original script i was just the spy but then my fights got more and more.

>> talk a little more about doing a series instead of just doing a movie. disclaimer for instance, where you spend 3 1/2 hours going, it shows a lot more depth. >> if you are doing a film you have to make certain choices. you've got two hours and it has to be a clear choice. when you've got six hours or eight hours or 10 hours you can take it in different directions. i think that makes it fun for the audience and fun for the actor playing it. >> i love a female lead showing depth and showing she can be imperfect, even horrible instead of the victim. >> let me finish with this question, i want to talk about love actually.

i love love actually. it's a wonderful life, you got mail. but i understand that there is a huge divide out there. you either love it or you hate it. >> obviously i love it. could you imagine if i certainly -- suddenly turned around and said, no. but i actually have only seen it once. >> that's normal. >> i would watch alpha million times just not my own thing. >> what is your favorite christmas movie? >> it's diehard. >> and yes, it is a christmas film. >> black doves is streaming out

on netflix. actress and executive producer keira knightley, thank you for coming on the show. congratulations. don't go anywhere. we have a second hour of morning joe weekend for you right after the break. the brea. at betmgm, everyone gets a welcome offer. so whether you're courtside trying to hit the over... or up here trying to hit the under. whew! or, hitting that win with your crew. ohhh! yes, see defense! or way up here with a same game parlay. yaw! betmgm's got your back. get your welcome offer. and play with the sportsbook born in vegas. all these seats. really?

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welcome back to a second hour of morning joe weekend. let's get to some of the

important decisions we had this week. >> the approach will be, everybody toe the line. everybody line up and if you want to survive you better be good, do not get on santa's naughty list because we will primary you. we are seeing that play out in real time right now with the nominees. my friend, joni ernst, who was probably one of the more conservative principled republican leaders in the senate right now is being hung out to dry for not being good enough. we are getting a little bit of a preview of what it means to be a legion to party and i don't think that will help us as a republican party, believe it or not. >> do you feel like there is a pressure campaign? >> i do. i think it is a two edge sword. i think you can run to a point where we have majorities and i

think it is more important to get behind closed doors, address concerns and have republicans come together as one then to create controversy. it is a short-term win but a long-term loss. >> thom tillis, republican from north carolina. jason miller downplayed the idea of a pressure campaign against those senate republicans. >> i think a lot of that is hyperbole. trump has nominated people he thinks will be best for the job . when it comes to whether or not senators will be backing these nominees, senators take it seriously. right now there are no hard nose for republicans because they are very good people, well- qualified people. >> let's bring in ryan nobles who has been covering all of this very closely.

we did see a change in tone from joni ernst from one week to the next. basically expressing some skepticism over pete hegseth and this week appearing to be much more open. what are you hearing behind the scenes from these members, these senators about the pressure being applied not just from trump and his people directly but outside as well? >> there is obviously the pressure campaign happening behind closed doors that we are not privy to where there is the president himself making clear what he wants in these top jobs, his allies, getting that message to senators as well. but it is also a very vicious online campaign against many of these senators who have publicly said that they are a no vote on any of these nominees. this next cycle includes thom

tillis and joni ernst. if you don't toe the line you could be in trouble and we will spare no expense or effort to make sure that happens. that has to be in the back of the minds of many of these senators. again, with the branch of government that the senate is. and this is in many ways a foreshadowing of what we could potentially see as a showdown between senate republicans in the white house throughout the course of the next two years. this is basically setting the stage to determine whether or not the senate republicans have the backbone to stand up to donald trump when he makes a decision they don't necessarily like. it is fair to say that pete hegseth, tulsi gabbard, matt

gaetz, these are the kind of nominees that would have a difficult time being confirmed under any circumstance. it is not a surprise that there is some skepticism among these ranks. i think the question right now is just how far is donald trump himself willing to go to exert that pressure and does he pick and choose between which one of these nominees he wants to use the political capital on. there is no doubt that if he wants, he can make life very difficult for these republican senators. but he also knows he has to work with them. there are going to be a lot of votes that he needs from them. if he wants those tax cuts and the funding for the mass deportation, go down the line of these policy proposals he has. does he want to wind and or does he want to win now? there could be a calculus taking place where he is seeing how far he could push them and that will tell us how things

will play out at least in the first two years in this second run of his presidency. >> i know what everyone hears from republicans privately is that they don't think matt gaetz was qualified, they don't think tulsi gabbard should be anywhere near the country secrets. they don't think pete hegseth should run a department like the department of defense. what is the calculus for these senators. talk about what donald trump is inking. how do they weigh this, they have to live in donald trump's washington for the next four years but they don't believe principally that they should be the nominate. >> it is important to keep in mind that these senators want donald trump to succeed. this is not the republican party of 2017 where there was

definitely a faction of never trumper republicans that were hoping behind the scenes that he did not succeed and to make it through. these republicans want him to win. when they go through the advise and consent, it is not because they want to trip him up but they want him to have the best people around him when he takes office on january 20th and beyond. what they would like to see happen is, behind the scenes there is a conversation, they talk to the administration and they say, you know what, it is just not going to happen. it will be ugly and we will have a hearing where democrats get to ask questions. they will expose a lot of these issues that have come up in media reports. your nominees will have to deal with this and it will ultimately bad for you.

and at the end of it we may have to vote against you and make it look like we are in a position to you. the other path is, behind the scenes we quietly talk about why this person is not necessarily right for the job, why don't you find someone else and let that person bow out on their own. that is how it worked with matt gaetz. it was clear that under any circumstance he would not get the votes. the question now and what he is dealing with when it comes to pete hegseth, tulsi gabbard and robert f. kennedy jr., is trump getting that message yet. are these republican senators will and to say definitively that there is no way i will vote for this guy. it's time to move on now before going through that process. with hegseth, trump feels he has the charisma and will be able to win over some of these senators. he is willing to allow him to

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let's talk about the fbi. director christopher wray stepping down from his post next month heard he announced that this week. republicans are falling behind kash patel, he was back on the hill yesterday meeting with republican lawmakers. here is what he had to say ahead of a meeting with ted cruz. >> all i can say is that we've had a wonderful first week, meeting with so many great senators. it has been a humbling process to receive their advice during the consent and i look forward to continuing that during the confirmation process. and i'm thrilled to be the nominee for director of the fbi

and i'm very excited to see senator ted cruz. >> kash patel is viewed by many people as the most controversial of all of trump's choices. and seems to publicly be getting the most broad support from republicans. if he could get all those votes on those republicans who came out and supported his choice. what do you make of this dynamic? he has called for the jailing of the members of the press and people he perceives to be part of the deep state and part of the enemies list at the back of his book. the choice, again, getting widespread support from the hill. >> i was talking to a senior aide yesterday who was very bland.

this pick, kash patel is not only the most controversial but could change americans lives the most. if he is willing to use the tools of power in the fbi to go after the enemies list that he put in the back of his book, others that he will take his cues from donald trump. this will use the power of the most important law enforcement body in the world, potentially, on american citizens and even arrests as he has threatened against lawmakers and journalists and others he has deemed in opposition to the maga movement. he has no ideology of his own, per say but rather channels whatever donald trump wants. it is striking though, we have heard senators publicly and privately expressed reservations about pete hegseth. some have said, tulsi gabbard, do we really want her to have

the nation secrets. but kash patel has flown under the radar. there are a number of republicans that do care about law and order and the norms of government and checking its investigative powers. are they going to stand up against kash patel who more than anything symbolizes trump 2.0? >> i don't think you can underestimate just how strong the anger is against the fbi by even the rank-and-file republicans, what they see as the department's excesses, really starting with james comey and his announcement about hillary clinton was even and overstep, some republicans feel. kash patel may be someone they see as coming into cleanup. he may upset some apples in the

barrel but that's okay. they are willing to accept, like they are with trump that things will get broken and there could be chaos. but they feel that they have to address the underlying problems that constituents are so angry about. >> this reminds me that it could be a 21st century adaptation of pat moynihan's 1993 essay on defining deviancy down. kash patel is on the roster to be fbi director. and on the roster, batting third, number one, pete hegseth, senators walking around saying he is totally unqualified. then tulsi gabbard, if she is the director of national intelligence, the french, british, israelis, germans, no one will tell us about their

intelligence apparatus. they will deal with us because they don't trust her. kash patel, okay, we will define deviancy down. kash patel, i will vote for him to be fbi director. it is incredible to watch it and just thinking what has happened to the united states senate over the past couple of decades, but especially the past 10 years. it used to be the greatest deliberative body in the world and now apparently it is check your conscience at the door. >> and remember those senator principles objections is that christopher wray has been weaponized against political opponents. but now you have a someone in kash patel who is explicitly saying that his job is to weaponized the fbi and go after opponents of donald trump. pete hegseth med with a democratic senator on capitol

hill. donald trump's pick spent the last two weeks in washington talking to republicans. yesterday he sat down with john fetterman of pennsylvania. he told him that he is just doing his job and that he had never heard of hegseth before trump picked him to leave the pentagon. here is what fetterman had to say after their conversation. >> makes space, guys. >> i am not really sure. we had a conversation. that is part of the process. that's the thing. i'm going to listen to what my colleagues on the other side continue to say and how they evaluate. >> are you considering voting for him? >> it's a conversation.

>> tough to hear, senator fetterman basically saying, this is not news, this is our job. it does not mean i am voting for the guy but i will give him a fair hearing like i would anyone else. what you make, though, that is just one democrat, broadly about the process we are talking about. which that -- is that they are having a little more trouble, at least for the moment, because they are or more hearings to come, finding their conscience about some of these things. >> usually on fetterman, it should not be news and if the system was working perfectly senators from both sides would meet the candidate of any president but it is news because he is the only democrat who has met with these proposed candidates. that in and of itself makes it news. he also knows that he is up for re-election in the election

cycling. so there may be a whole lot of motives going on there. you are right that it looks for the moment like this week is very different from the end of last week. donald trump's domination pix seem to be in a stronger position than they were this time last week. we are surprised pete hegseth made it through the weekend. i have been told that their are lots of different things going on, senator john thune is having discussions about how he can play checkers with the senators and give some of them the opportunity to say no to one pick but not have any of them have to say no to more than one pick. but until this process starts, i think we have to slightly ignore the process at the moment because some of the signals we are getting are being followed by reporters and

it is different from what will happen when we have the hearings. with trump you have to always go with what is happening and not what is being said. once we sit down and the hearing start taking place, that could be the moment in which you start to see some of these senators say, okay, we will find ways that some of us on some of these picks are able to get enough cover to vote no and it may be only once. we will be joined by one of the five democrats currently vying to be the next dnc chair. you are watching morning joe weekend, we will be right back.

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james school this joins us now. welcome. >> we have the most powerful democrat in america sitting next to you. >> let me ask you this, over the last three decades we've seen back in the late '80s and '90s, there was the democratic council against the coalition. and that cycle against the more moderates, how do you see you running as a new face nationally trying to bring the party together rather than having these torrent sides which only leads to defeat of the party when you have so- called moderate side against the more progressive.

>> that is the core question, how do we rebuild the once big democratic tent that is fraying on the edges. i've done this for the past 12 years daily. i won by 14. i live and breathe every day coalition building and how do we bring back folks under that big tent. we haven't dominated any national election since 2008. it has been 16 years since we have had a dominant performance. we have either white knuckle date or we've lost. and the next dnc chair, the single most important thing that he or she must do is throw out the old d.c. playbook. it just has not worked in a long time. and if you are a candidate in this race who has been at the table and has been a dnc lifer and you have not delivered that change in the 5 to 15 years you

have been -- since you have been at the table. this calls for an aggressive outsider who knows how to win. >> so, i was interested to read what you wrote about moving fast. you said we are in a moment of realignment that is anti-elite, anticorporate and strictly populous. can you talk about the side of things that were helping working-class americans. can you talk about the character and the style of what my kids would call the vibe of the candidate, will you can see breakthrough and can seem authentically connected to working-class americans. how important is that to you and what does that look like? >> the next dnc chair is not a policymaking role.

>> you represent how you see the order of the party. >> i spoke with a dnc member in arizona a few days ago, a battleground state and she told me that she got 16 big glossy mailers a day from the national democrats. i run a lot of campaigns and i've won all of them, there is nothing that the 16th mailer is doing that the 15th mailer was not doing. we have to get away from the d.c. consultant class, the folks i am referring to is the cocktail circuit and shift our attention, and resources to the boots on the ground. the party loyalists and the faithful that are actually moving the needle, who are in the trenches. our friends in organized labor have been taken for granted in cycles. i don't want to be the dnc chair that picks up the phone and frantically calls for boots

on the ground. i want them in the room when we are developing strategy and guidance on how to move forward in rebuilding the working class that we've lost. i come from a union household, working-class household. we need to get back to talking to the folks that feel completely disconnected from the democratic party. we are using overly academic language. we have to start becoming relatable again. >> you have won your district each time donald trump has won in your district. if you become the chair of the dnc, how do you go to washington and get the collective brainiacs at the top of the democratic party when all you hear from them is, how can people vote for donald trump or the alternative the use is how can people be so stupid? how do you tell those other

democrats that the people who voted for donald trump are not stupid? >> you are 100% right. we've gotten into this bad habit of lecturing people and telling people what they should think or how they should feel if they don't agree on xy or z. that they are stupid, as you stated. the next dnc chair has to do a lot of rebuilding of our coalition. the perfect example is the conflict in gaza. because we've walked on eggshells and have not engaged meaningfully we have managed to every stakeholder. orthodox in my district vote for me but feel completely disconnected from the democratic national party. college campus activists, they feel completely disconnected. so the next dnc chair needs to

go with contrition to groups like this, leaders in these communities, stakeholder groups and explain, we have not gotten it right the last couple of cycles and we want to do better heard we want you back under our once big democratic tent. it starts with reaching out to these folks, demonstrate and respect. if you have been a part of the dnc apparatus for the last 5 to 10 years, and you haven't been doing these things, who is to expect you will start doing it now. i have done this daily in really difficult terrain. as the stock market reaches record highs, we've got charts to break down that momentum. th. of families facing childhood cancer is just what we do.

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joining us tao, former treasury official and economic analyst, steve ratner. >> it has really been quite a ride in the stock market and donald trump is here to celebrate it. if you go back to 1994, it has almost been on a tear throughout this period. four out of the five presidents during that timeframe have reached great stockett -- stock

performance. trump, almost 14% a year and biden, 12.5%. the only kind of loser was bush with the.com bubble crash and the financial crisis that made it hard for him. but stocks have gone up so much that by most measures they are very expensive. this is how we measure how expensive stocks are, by the ratio of the price earnings of the s&p. here we are today and stocks are more expensive than they have been anytime in the last 120 years except for the.com bubble. more expensive than they were in the crash in 1929. that does not mean they can't go higher. >> can you explain for the layman out there, more expensive, explain that. >> expensively -- basically we measure them on the earnings,

as they go up, they get more expensive and it is harder for them to keep going up. no different than anything else you buy. so you can see how expensive they are today. it doesn't mean they can't go more but it is pretty unlikely that donald trump will have a repetition of his success in the stock market. >> when you say more expensive, just an exaggerated version of this was when you had stocks like pets.com losing money hand over fist but still they were costing a lot of money. >> exactly. and they are simply overpriced. the same thing could happen with stocks. >> do you think that is why warren buffett has pulled his money? we hear a lot about warren buffett pulling all of his

money or most of his money out of the stock market and he is in cash now. does he think the stock market is so overvalued that he is likely to fold? >> he hasn't said that but mostly what he has pulled out his his apple steak. and warren buffett and most investors would tell you, i will tell you that the time market is a fools errand. and so buffett is not saying explicitly that he is worried about stock prices but implicit in what he is doing is that fact. >> talking about the magnificent 7, how seven stocks are driving so much success on the stock market. >> these have been named the magnificent 7. it is up over 825% since the beginning of last year. less than two years. meta, that are known as facebook, up almost 400% and

tesla is interesting because it had been languishing until the election but people think elon musk will use his influence in the white house to help tesla and so it has had a big jump. microsoft, apple, only doubling in the last two years. so these stocks represent 30% of the index, but are weighted by the size of their market value. so instead of it being 2% of the index, which is what they would be on an equal basis, they are 30%. but over here, you can see what happens. if you assume the stock market or s&p were equally weighted rather than market value weighted it would be up 29% over the last two years. instead it is up 57%. so this is a large part of what has been driving the stock market.

>> we talked earlier about how the technological age, globalization made the united states much more profitable, richer, made us more productive. but hollowed out the middle class and working class. your next chart talks about how corporate profits are exploding but much faster than incomes for working americans. >> it is interesting read if you want to look at reasons why people are unhappy, let's look at what has been happening to the fruits of our economic success. we have had a great economy for a good while, some ups and downs but generally quite strong. again if we go back to 1994, we are tracking stock prices and corporate profits and you can see what has happened to those. we are tracking how much

personal income has gone up and you can see the difference over a long. of time help people have a lot less corporate profits and let's look at the last two presidents. under trump in his first term, corporate profits went up by a 14.7% annual rate over his four years. personal income went up by 5.7% over that same period. biden is closer but corporate profits went up 12% and personal income up 7%. so the capitalists, so to speak have done very well over this period of time and the average american much less well. and i think you can see in a lot of the unhappiness throughout the country part of the reason that might be. >> steve ratner providing extraordinary charts. also providing us with the word of the day.

>> not a word i think i've ever said in my life. >> it means irritable or depressed. next, as we mark the 20th anniversary of the clinton presidential center in little rock, joe speaks with former president bill clinton about the remarkable work the clinton global initiative has been doing since he left the white house. white house. nothing makes a gathering great like eggland's best eggs. they're just so delicious. with better nutrition, too. for us, it's eggs any style. as long as they're the best. eggland's best. if you're living with dry amd, you may be at risk for developing geographic atrophy, or ga. ga can be unpredictable—and progress rapidly—leading to irreversible vision loss. now there's something you can do to... ♪ ( slow. it. down.) ♪

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last weekend i had the chance to sit down with former president clinton who recently celebrated the 20th anniversary of the clinton presidential center in little rock. we talked about the remarkable work he's been doing since he left the white house. something he alluded to during his farewell address to the nation as president. >> my days in this officer nearly through but my days of service, i hope, are not. in the years ahead i will never

hold a position higher or coveted more sacred than president of the united states that there is no title eyewear more proudly than that of citizen. >> mika has always told me the story about her dad was national security advisor and had the red phone in the house and on january 20th, 12:01, the secret service had been around their house, a man -- come in every about the phone, secret service leaves and i can't imagine how tough it is if you are the most powerful person in the world one day to becoming a private citizen the next. how is that transition for you emotionally, professionally? >> i was grateful that the american people gave me a chance to serve eight years. i knew with the constitution said and i supported the two-

term limit. i had been training myself for my whole second term to try to walk out that door and be grateful and remember the things i needed to remember. good and bad. but to never spend a day wishing i could still do a job that i could not do anymore. i wanted to live in the present and for the future. and you've got to have a strategy otherwise you can kind of drift. as i said, i didn't know where i was for two or three weeks. just dead silence. i am very grateful and i had a wonderful time. >> what was incredible is that you were only 54 years old. these days it would be considered way too young to even run for president. at 54, you are hoping and

praying that you've got three decades ahead of you or so to get things done. did you ever imagine how you would fill that up at that time? before, you had been preparing for this day. >> i realized we were living in an interdependent world, but one full of conflict as well as possibilities and coalition. i wanted to do what i try to do as governor of arkansas. i wanted to try to figure out how to do what i wanted to do, just think about the business you are in and what percentage of your political reporting has been about basically, what are you going to do and how much money are you going to spend on it? no matter what you do, there will always be a gap between what the public sector produces

and with the private sector produces. i want to fill the gap and figure out how to do things faster, cheaper and better. next we will speak with julianna margulies and peter gallagher about their new broadway play that brings to life an extraordinary true story of reconnection and love. voltaren, the joy of movement.

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someone that believes the unconscious can be a source of joy and creativity and believes in confluence or as we call it synchronicity and the mysteries of life joining and flowing together as rivers do. >> so what -- the opposite of what my freudian tree told me in my 20s. that two people spotting each other from across the room are spotting their neurotic match. i had begun to believe that i'd fallen into my own romantic comedy. >> that was a look at the new broadway play, left on tenth, adapted by acclaimed screenwriter delia efren from her memoir of the same name. it follows her as she reconnects with an old flame who reaches out after reading an op-ed in the new york times about the pain and frustration of disconnecting her deceased

husband's landline with verizon. joining us now, emmy and golden globe award winning actress, julianna margulies and golden globe winning and tony nominated peter gallagher. welcome. this is so fun. >> i've got to say, knowing and loving dora as much as we did and seeing how nora always would be bringing people together at dinner parties. the least surprising thing about this story is that it was nora that put you two together, ultimately. >> she had, delia did not remember any of it. but when delia's now husband had reached out after she wrote this great op-ed, love and hate on hold with verizon. she got all this mail on her

website from people who had the same issues. and this man reached out and said, actually, your sister nora set us up when we were 18. and delia's husband had just died and they fell in love over email. which is another confluence of events because delia efren wrote you've got mail. >> let's read from the 2016 op- ed entitled love and hate, on hold with verizon. she writes in part, i know it is not a good idea to hate anyone. i know from an article i read that negative emotions are bad for my health and i would hate to have a heart attack because my internet is not working. but i do hate verizon. this all began because i disconnected one of my two land

lines. i don't need to land lines now that i don't have jerry heard this is the only chance i've attempted to make in my entire life since my husband died and it has not gone well. one of my friends, not a psychic, suggested that jerry did not want me disconnecting his phone but that does not sound like jerry. his voice was on the answering service and i recorded it on my cell phone before asking for the disconnect. >> so this is where it all began. talk about how peter connects. >> he read that piece in the new york times and it turns out everybody hates their cell phone provider. it was a spectacularly successful piece but he had just lost his wife and remember quite vividly the dates they had and delia had no recollection of any of the dates. and so he had been looking to

reconnect with her, looked up the website and wrote to her and she wrote back and what began a lengthy email exchange and it culminated in a romance. >> do you find the story is resonating with people you perform in front of every night, people with similar stories? >> it has been overwhelmingly joyful and incredibly moving to see the audiences reaction. and when we go out of the stage sure we are probably talking to people for good morning. it is saturday, december 14th. the gang all here. today donald trump pressuring members of his own party to push through his controversial cabinet picks. pl,