♪♪ good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york, welcome, everyone, to "alex whit reports." we begin with new developments in the case against luigi mangione charged in the death of the unitedhealthcare ceo. mangione has retained a new york attorney here in new york. as we await prosecutors to file an indictment and new hints at a reversal in the suspect's extradition battle. >> indications are that the defendant may waive, but that way vor is not pleat until a court proceeding which my understanding from court officials in pennsylvania cannot happen until tuesday. so until that time, we're going to continue to press forward on parallel paths. also new today, "newsweek"

sharing a glimpse of mangione's life in prison. he is reportedly not interacting with other inmates has taken every meal in his krael. let's start the hour with nbc's priscilla thompson. so priscilla, welcome again. walk us through an extradition process and what we can expect next. >> reporter: yeah. so you heard the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg there saying that they have some indication that he could waive extradition and that he could be in court to do that as early as tuesday. and that was a very interesting statement when we all heard it because it's contrary to what mangione's attorney said earlier this week in court, which is that they would attempt to fight the extradition of him back to new york city. but of course that came after we're now learning that he has a new defense attorney in the new york city case, a high-profile new york city defense attorney in karen freedman agnifilo.

she has spent seven years as the chief assistant attorney in the d.a.'s office before going into private practice there. so we have reached out to them for comment about this news about the possibility of an extradition and have not yet heard back. but here is what governor kathy hochul had to say about all this this week. >> i want to get him back here in the state of new york and run him through our criminal justice system because that horrific attack occurred on our streets. and the people of our city know -- deserve to have that sense of calm that this perpetrator has been caught and he will be never seeing the light of day again if there is justice. >> reporter: so obviously very passionate and eager about getting him back to new york city. and you also heard the manhattan d.a. say regardless of what happens with an extra digs hearing, they are going to continue to press forward with this case. and so we could potentially see a grand jury being asked to hand

up an indictment as early as next week. alex? >> okay, priscilla, thank you very much for the wrap-up from there. joining me now to further the discussion, we have former u.s. attorney and host of the talking feds podcast and sub stack rry litman. mangione could be facing additional charges on top of the second degree murder and gun charges after a potential motive in the killing is established, according to d.a. bragg. like what? what other charges are possible? >> well, i think this reflects a kind of internal battle or discussion that's going on now at the level of the d.a. and i read between the lines that the police department is pushing for a higher charge of first degree. in manhattan law, what we normally think of first degree, lying in wait, intentional murder as he did is charged second degree unless there's an extra element to bump it up. and the one thing they are talking about now is terrorism.

if you go down the list, really they don't seem to fit very well. but could they try to argue that mangione was trying generally to perpetrate fear within society, within the healthcare industry. that's my sense of the kind of internal debate going on now. they don't have to decide immediately. and you expect that they're already in a grand jury. and i expect their already preparing them to return second degree murder new york charges. >> so, we have heard mangione's lawyer is challenging his extradition to new york in a pennsylvania court and that could take weeks. what will prosecutors need to show to have him brought back to new york. >> next to nothing. why with his new lawyer karen who both knows the people in the courthouse but has great trial chops, all they have to show is he's the guy identified in the new york charges. he is mangione. and the charges are bona fide, a

second degree murder here would be bona fide. so he's -- it's predetermined that he will lose. so the reason to go ahead and waive would be you save the money from the fight. some people think it curries goodwill with the prosecutors. and defense lawyers often tell their clients, look, we're going to trial here or we're going to gear up. let's just start with this part of your life and get sort of settled in to what's going to be happening for the next many months. >> can i ask you, how does a defense attorney build a case for a suspect who has a trail of evidence tying him to a crime including video tape, his fingerprints at the scene, handwritten notebook entries? where does the defense attorney begin there? >> right. karen has a very good reputation, but i can't see it. i think the case here, the evidence, will be overwhelming.

so the only chance is some kind of defense. i see two possibilities. the first is an insanity defense. that's a hard one under new york law because he'll have to show that he didn't appreciate his act was wrong. and his confession itself says i didn't use bomb. i didn't want to hurt others. it's too bad i had to do this but they're parasites. i think it's a very, very hard case. and then the second would be to take a second degree murder charge to a first degree manslaughter charge if they can show he was acting under extreme emotional disturbance. and we're hearing a lot about his terrible back pain and his operation and this eight-month period when he disappeared. i don't see that as a very strong possibility, but it would be that. in terms of he's not the guy. are you going to believe your own eyes or not, there's no defense there and someone as sophisticated as karen recognizes that. >> okay. my friend, please stick around because i do want to ask you

about donald trump's promise to pardon january 6th rioters in just a minute. but we're going to go first right now to northwest stadium in landover, maryland, donald trump is set to arrive soon for the army/navy game alongside some of his potential cabinet pix and other allies. we are at the stadium. welcome. who are we expecting to see on the sidelines with donald trump today? >> reporter: well, alex, we'll see a coatry of donald trump allies. we learned new names. one of which is vivek ramaswamy, donald trump's choice as one of the leads of the department of efficiency attended a tailgate here and will be attending the game. it's unclear if he will be sitting with trump. we know he is in attendance. "the washington post" also michael waltz also will be here for national security adviser. there are also some high profile names one of which is tulsi gabbard, arriving here shortly with the president-elect. and also pete hegseth, his

embattled choice for defense secretary will be here. what may be another signal of support for hegseth from the president-elect. now among the controversial items about hegseth has been his qualifications with some democrats and some criticizing that choice as not having adequate experience for the job. i talked to some attendees here today. here is one one veteran had to say who matched hegseth in rank during his time in service. take a listen. >> i had about the same rank he had in the military. i run about the same number of people he does now. i'm a captain in the fire department. and i'm not qualified to run a major city fire department or the department of defense. >> reporter: so that was an interesting take to hear from someone who is a veteran himself and who says while that wouldn't have been his pick, he respects the process as it will go on. alex, as you know, ultimately the decision will lie in the hands of republican senators. hegseth has been lobbying republican senators the last

couple weeks and aswauj some. today's appearance with trump could be another affirmation of support that could make his odds more likely to being concerned. >> it's another month and change until we get to this confirmation hearing. thank you for that heads up. back with me again, former u.s. attorney harry. he said he'll pardon the first nine minutes. go to the non-violent people convicted of taking part in the capitol attack. what's your response to that? do you expect trump's computations to at some point extend to those convicted of violent crimes that day? >> well, you know, the violent, non-violent distinction, alex, is not very clean here because so many were charged with conspiracy or being part of a violent effort or knowing about it. i think he has some very hard

lines to draw. but forget about that. taking a step back, i think this is the sort of most clear-cut, outrage and show of the division in the country that the president-elect is making it a priority to take -- you're seeing them here, those he has called heroes and patriots, violent ma rodders who stormed the capitol to prevent the peaceful transfer of power, historians will struggle with this for decades to come. but that the president of the united states is lionizing these people and calling them heros and wiping out the biggest doj prosecution in history shows a divide as big as the grand canyon in the country to so many people, these guys are ma radding violent villains. federal officers died and were harmed afterwards.

>> let me ask you about president biden pardoning 39, 1,500 clemency. how big a deal is this? should biden also commute the sentences of the 40 men currently on death row? got some top democrats advocating for that. and if so, would those reduce to life in prison? or could they walk out of jail? >> so, you can commute a sentence. so the short answer to your last question is it would go to life in prison. and that's what anti-death penalty advocates are urging him to do. it was a very big -- it has a lot of people. otherwise that kind of action at a end of a president's term is not unusual. however, it involved retail analysis of was this person non-violent? always really important in a pardon. and query how trump will navigate that.

but also, do these people have a real claim for having served enough or being innocent and applying that to the january 6th defendants i think is going to cause, you know, terrible discord and undermining of confidence in the criminal justice system. but, yeah, it was big. and we may see more yet because he's got to deal with this problem that trump and patel promised a hit list when they come in of people who also haven't done anything wrong. what do you do about that? >> yeah. big question when you have the answer come back and let us know, my friend. thank you, harry litman. >> i'll be right back. >> okay. the uproar over the lack of information about drones flying in the skies over new jersey and several other state. the latest on what we know in 90 seconds. seconds. kevin, where are you?! kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback?

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happening now, growing number of people demanding answers about the mysterious drones seen across new jersey and other east coast states. meanwhile, the federal government trying to assure everyone there's nothing to worry about. >> we have no concern at this point with respect to a threat or any nefarious activity. the reality is you can have a 15-year-old kid who buys a drone off the shelf and puts it up in the sky. >> i would ask you, do you get the impression the federal government knows way more?

>> absolutely. >> no shadow of a doubt. >> our governor going out on social media saying we don't know what it is, but we don't think it's a credible threat. you can't have it both ways. >> joining us now we have nbc's sam brock. okay. i know that we just got an update from the state officials in new jersey. what did you find out from that? >> sure. so alex, let's just say this. it is very rare in today's political atmosphere to say that something is bipartisan. this issue is absolutely bipartisan, doesn't matter if you're a congressman, senator, mayor, whatever level of government you're serving, democrat or republican, everybody seems to be in agreement in government right now there needs to be more information sharing coming from the fbi and dhs on these suspected drones. as to your question, alex, about what we just learned this afternoon, chris smith is a republican congressman from the fourth congressional district in new jersey. central new jersey he held a press conference seaside heights where he unveiled this legislation, first of all, he said don't insult american's intelligence. we know this is not nothing. you already deemed it to be not a risk to public security or

national security. how do you know that? he questioned that. but also wanted to unveil legislation empowering state police and other local law enforcement to be able to essentially do risk assessment, as we understand it, on their own and to shoot down drones if they pose a risk to the public, or to critical infrastructure, not sure exactly how far that legislation could actually go, but it does express the anger right now, the outrage over the pact that a lot of these states and cities and towns feel like their hands are tied. here is a portion of congressman smith's comments and what you heard from the dhs secretary about the fact that there's no threat here. take a listen. >> the massive invasion of drones observed and recorded by so many of our citizens, including and especially law enforcement, and military personnel, many who are here, is it unusual? is he kidding? and how can he and others like national security spokesman admiral john kirby, say we know there's no threat?

how do they know that? what aren't they revealing? or are they just saying it? >> reporter: so i believe the he that he's referring to there is president biden and really the -- >> december 4th. >> conversation in general here, alex. what i would say right now you're looking at your screen at some images that were captured from the mine hill township mayor. he went to the backside of his building where they have their government and said at night recently week and a half ago he saw like four different drones what appears to be drones. here is where the crux of the issue really comes down. you have the federal government and specifically dhs and fbi saying we reviewed the video of what's come in and we think almost all this, the majority of it is manned aircraft, not drones. but then you see snip pets of some of these videos and seeing the green and red lights, much lower. how do these two things connect? these are things they want folks answered. all over the country, it's not just new jersey, extended

reports to maryland, delaware, other states as well. people clearly want answers. >> yeah. okay. thank you very much. we appreciate you, sam brock, for that. >> joining us right now a guy who might have more answers for us rob demeco, former fbi supervisor who also served as chief of the fbi's counterdrone unit. rob, as i welcome you in, i want your reaction to the update the last hour that we were just getting there from sam about state officials in new jersey saying anything unusual about this? and pushing back on what officials have been telling us. >> i think in the beginning a 99 plus percent were manned aircraft, low-flying satellite, planet. they all look to be drones at night. and they think they're at low altitude. their not. depending on the angle and the lights. we used to get this all the time. any time the fbi counterdrone

unit went to an event. the fbi counterdrone unit is only for specific events, super bowl, world series where we think a terrorist may bring a drone in and weaponize it. they really don't have anything to do with civilian drones, like you're seeing. that's faa. but any time we told anyone we're there, they would start looking to the sky, oh, i see drones. and we had apps that tracked airplanes and then we actually started bringing stuff to look at planets to figure this stuff out because people aren't used to looking at the sky. now since then, though, with all the hysteria, i guarantee everybody who has a drone is starting to fly them. i grew up in new jersey. as a teenager in new jersey, i would be throwing a drone up and messing with people just to add to the chaos. and i think that's what you're starting to see. this shot here over the soccer goals, those are either low-flying satellites, aircraft at a far off angle that you can't tell. and that's what they're saying is the majority of what you're seeing in the beginning was

that. but now i think people are adding to the chaos. you're going to start seeing around the country because as people start looking up, they'll start noticing things in the sky. >> okay. but rob, the fact that we're not being told exactly what they are, oh, their not a problem. not saying where they're coming from, not saying what they're doing, some people believe these drones actually belong to the u.s. government. what are the chances they are right? at least a portion of them. >> i think that's a far stretch. i think if anyone was doing anything, if they were doing anything, they would stop at this point. they would say, if -- i heard the testing. i heard all this other stuff. they would cease and desist doing that. i think the really outrageous one was that iran has a ghost ship and they're launching drones in. so iran is going to fly drones at an altitude with lights on that people can see? that's silly to a point. i've now seen all kinds of stuff

about ufos, every conspiracy theorist now has some take on this. but the problem is it's getting to the point where you saw from a la laguardia airport, 99% was planes in a landing pattern. now you're seeing people flying drones by airports to look for drones or cause chaos and you'll have a serious incident with a commercial aircraft. >> president-elect donald trump suggested last night on social media that officials should simply shoot down the drones. good idea or bad idea? >> oh, that's so bad. when i had the fbi's counterdrone team, we could mitigate a drone. we could take it over with electronics and land it so bomb techs could take a look at it. that was a very serious thing to do because once you start playing with the drone, it can fall and kill someone. so if you have a drone sightseeing where it shouldn't be and you shoot it down and it

kills something, what's going on with that? so you have to look at it. i would also -- when we were doing it in new york city for the thanksgiving day parade, i would really never take over a drone in new york city because the ability to fly a drone in new york city there's a thing called gps, gps is so hit or miss in new york city for me to be able to take a drone and land it where i want i think was even too risky to do. so, saying to shoot down drones is probably the worst thing you can say. someone shoots a at drone, it is the same legally as shooting at a manned aircraft. there's no difference in it. so you go start shooting down drones, i've seen videos of it, you might as well be shooting at an airplane full of people. it's the same penalties. again, it is just irresponsible to start saying all these things. and the fbi we went to congress asking them to allow us to train state and local. this is not an easy mission. allow us to train state and locals so they can do this for

themselves. >> let me ask you, even if this all turns out to be absolutely nothing of note, are drones from a foreign country a credible threat to the u.s.? >> no. the department of defense has the ability to track foreign drones, foreign ships off there. they have good drones. but the fact that they're not getting anything from a drone that hasn't already been gotten. like, you talk about -- i mean, some of the best drones are chinese drones. let me tell you, all that data has already gone back to china. that's dgi drones whole big talk, u.s. government is not allowed to use them but they have millions of drones out there. and they're grabbing up all the imagery that people are flying. so, it's nothing they haven't seen before. some country is not going to get something from a drone. now again, if you look at weaponizing it, like isis did,

it can be a terrorist attack. it won't have huge effects, even if it has a grenade, there's talk about agricultural drones being able to spray stuff that is one of the concerns that we always had. but it's going to be a limited thing. and we've already caught terrorists planning other things. so the fact that if you can get into terrorist group and they start talking about drones, then it's just another typical threat stream that you go to intercept. >> okay. well, this was a good chat. i feel a little better having spoken with you, rob. thank you so much. nancy pelosi is hospitalized overseas. the very latest on what we know next. as the very latest on what we know next why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

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♪♪ breaking news that former house speaker nancy pelosi is recovering after having emergency surgery overseas. a spokesperson confirmed she had a successful hip replacement this morning in germany after sustaining an injury while on an official congressional trip in luxembourg. joining us now from capitol hill we have nbc's gary grumbach. what more have we learned about the timeline of this injury and how long she may stay in the hospital? >> hey there, alex. the 84-year-old nancy pelosi was on the congressional delegation trip for the 8 anniversary trip ofl battle of bulge. she was there with members of the administration as well. she apparently fell at the

palace where the grand duke of luxembourg lives. she fell during an event and medevaked to a u.s. military hospital near ramstein air force base in germany. that is where according to her spokesman she underwent a hip replacement surgery some time in the past few hours. she is recovering at that hospital right now. certainly that's the largest american hospital outside of the united states. so she's receiving excellent care there. her spokesman this afternoon calling it a successful surgery, saying she is, quote, well on the mend and expressing thanks to the u.s. military hospital and the folks in lux emberg as well. there's no word yet on when she may be heading back to the united states, but at 84 it will likely take her a few days to get back on her feet. alex? >> okay. well, we certainly wish her well and thank you. bring us updates when we know when she may be heading back. thank you, gary. later on this hour, why a big campaign promise might not be fulfilled in donald trump's

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♪♪ breaking news. u.s. secretary of state antony blinken wrapping up his trip to jordan today after urging arab nations to support a peaceful, political transition in syria after rebels overthrew the half century of assad-family rule last week. joining me now once again we have nbc's matt bradley from damascus. so, matt, what did blinken accomplish in this meeting with

arab leaders and how are global leaders cooperating with the rebel groups. >> reporter: yeah, that's yet to be seen. when you ask how global leaders are cooperating with the rebel groups? a lot of global leaders, including the united states, and those on blinken's travel list, identified the new leaders here as terrorist which makes it legally impossible to work with them. there's a real effort underfoot to try to change that designation, particularly in the u.s. and of course the leader that toppled assad have been tried to restylize their past associations with al qaeda and islamic state. but there is, of course, a lot of voices saying we shouldn't be too credulous. now, of course you saw antony blinken kind of made a ring around syria in his trip. he went to turkey. he made a surprise trip to iraq. and he's in jordan now, as you said, trying to sure up american partners to make sure that syria

makes a good, peaceful transition to a government that isn't terrorists, that isn't fundamentalists and that will respect women's rights and the rights of minorities and maybe even democratic norm. but the real bomb shell that blinken dropped on this visit is that he's actually in touch with them directly. here is what he said. >> yes, we've been in contact with hts and with other parties. we have impressed upon everyone we've been in contact with the importance of helping find austin tice and bringing him home. >> reporter: and, of course, he's referring to journalist austin tice who hasn't been seen in the past 12 years. there's a feverish effort to try to find him now. when you talk about blinken talking to terrorists, that sounds highly questionable and illegal, but remember that the u.s. has been negotiating with hezbollah and hamas through intermediaries. both groups also designated as terrorists. it is possible for the united

states to communicate with groups who are designated as terrorists, they just have to do it through other channels. alex? >> is there verification that austin is still alive? >> reporter: no. there is no verification. there are thoughts he might be. reuters came out with a story the past couple days saying he was seen more than ten years ago or somebody, an american, was seen in bedragled clothing and escaped from jail in this neighborhood, an upscale neighborhood. he had been running around. he was taken in by a resident there, this according to reuters, who was quoting u.s. officials. and of course my colleague richard engel spoken with an activist the past couple days who said he had been in a prison cell in syria across the corridor from austin tice. but we still don't have any solid information, particularly on his whereabouts now but we don't know any solid information in his whereabouts in the past 12 years. >> okay. matt bradley, thank you very

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i don't think so. look, they got them up. i'd like to bring them down. it's hard to bring things down once they're up. and joining me now we have democratic strategist and former adviser to the obama campaign amee sha cross and brendan buck, former press secretary to house speaker john boehner. good to see you both. lady first. is trump laying the groundwork there for voters to not hold him accountable when prices don't go down or even go up? and are you surprised by his walk back? >> no. i think that he's trying to level set expectations. donald trump never had a plan of action in terms of reducing prices of anything. no one unfortunately, the media asked for policies and plans for kamala harris 5,000 times other, but very few cared act it when it came to donald trump and the statements he made. there was never a plan of action for cost reduction and quite frankly his tariff plans would create more course burden for his everyday consumer.

this is a guy who doesn't want to be held accountable for his campaign promises. now that he's there, it's stubborn. things aren't going to change. it's up and it's stuck in the words of card by i . the man has moved on. >> rural america, which strongly supports trump, could be hurt the most by his tariffs, his immigration policy, slashes to medicare and medicaid. it goes on the effects will test whether anything can loosen the gop's grip on small town america during the trump era or whether the fer ver of his rural supporters provides trump unlimited leeway to work against their economic interests without paying any political price. how far do you think trump can push these communities? >> look, i don't think that donald trump's support in those areas ever had a lot to do with policy. it's much more cultural. and that grip on that seconder of the country has only gotten

stronger. we saw that very clearly in the last election. >> let me ask you, when you say culture, is it about being pro trumpian or anti--liberal policies? >> yeah. it's clearly both. you know, one of the reasons that donald trump was able to, i think, sort of capture the attention and enthusiasm from a lot of these people is that there are a lot of people in this country who feel like the elites and particularly progressive liberal elites looked down on them and you know threatened their way of life. and that's ultimately what all of this came down to. that's why i think the support for him is so deep and strong. and it is unwavering, almost no matter what he does or what he says. when you think there are people out there who threaten your way of life, you're going to fight pretty hard. what donald trump said is, i'm standing up for you. they're attacking me because i'm protecting you and that has resonated. i don't think that will change any time soon.

whether or not it's fair or not or real or not, that's what a lot of people believe and as long as they view that, their going to stick in his corner. they don't like a lot about what donald trump says or does. they'll acknowledge that. but they know that he is their fighter. and that is powerful for them. >> so ameshia, trump was asked about pardons for those charged in the january 6th attack. he says he's going to be looking at it, quote, the first nine minutes. he doesn't go on to elaborate. he goes on to talk about other policy. pardons will be handed on a case by case basis but he wants to do it quickly. do you expect immediate sweeping pardons on even maybe day one as he said he would do during the campaign? >> i think that donald trump said a lot of things on the campaign trail to brendan's point to speak to certain cultural affinity when he was speaking to his maga base, hey, we're going to pardon the january 6th insurrectionists. for him, it was that these people are essentially patriots.

and we all saw the grievances that happened on that day and what they carried with tlem to the capitol. i think it has to be understood that this is a guy who said whatever he had to say to ensure that people came to the polls and shouted very fervently for him and voted for him. he is also someone, i think, will stand by some of these things. the january 6th pardons were something that was popular amongst his base. i think he's going to stand by it. up to and including all of the deportations that he's talked about. i think that it's going to be a lot smaller of a small than what he is trying to project out to individuals just because the slau the law. beyond that, what we'll see from donald trump is somebody who understands the cultural wars, somebody who will lean in on those cultural wars and who knows what gets america moving. he is marketer in chief if not anything else and will do everything he can to keep that base alive. >> what do you expect with reaction, brendan to the pardons? there's talks of democrats, they need to pick their battles with trump. but if the violent offenders end up being pardoned what message would that send to democrats who

are concerned for their safety, let alone everybody else in the country? >> yeah. look, to start, completely shameful if he were to do this. but it also is one of those probably one of the worst elections have consequences situations. he's made very clear that he's going to do this if he wins. and so it shouldn't really surprise anyone. i don't think democrats should just look the other way. joe biden pardoning his son certainly didn't help the situation. but i think if i were a democrat, i would try to remind people what exactly happened that day. i think this is one of the -- again, to state the obvious, one of the least popular things donald trump has ever done, creating one of the -- this image that will never live down around the world, remind people of what happened there. but at the same time, you know, he's been very clear that he was going to do this and i don't think anybody should be surprised by it. >> one last question, i'll try to ask it to both of you so i need a quick answer.

turning to trump's cabinet nominees. republican senators are being told fall in line in confirmation hearings or you'll risk primaried. don't get caught on santa's naughty list here because we're going to primary you. do you have any expectation these senators can hold their ground with concerns about critical nominees? >> absolutely not. i think they are all going to fall. they are seeing the commander in chief and i don't think they see a path out of this. and i think they will all fall in line. it does not behoove republican senators to step outside of trump's radar. it does not behoove them to lose any level of capacity when it comes to this next election cycle. i think they will all do the same dance he wants them to do. >> what do you think, quickly, brendan? >> depends who you're talking about. susan collins, probably helps her independent brand to vote against one or two. but you're not going to see ton of them fall down. people have to pick their spots because, yeah, they're already threatening primaries against somebody like joanie erntd. that quickly changed her tune.

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in the wake of fbi director christopher wray's resignation, the path is clear for trump's pick kash patel to lead the agency, according to a new report from the guardian. patel has already locked down significant senate support ahead of his confirmation hearing.

we'll bring in the author of that article hugo lowell. hey, my friend. i would like to know what your sources are telling you about how patel is able to rise above his controversies during his meeting with senators this week? >> yeah. it was a smart strategy to basically hide himself behind the other controversial nominees. people like pete hegseth, who has continued to be in the headlines this woke and while pete hegseth was attracting all of the scrutiny, kash patel very kawhi quietly had 17 meetings with senators. which is quite extraordinary given he is supposed to be one of the controversial nominees as well. and my sources tell me part of the reason why he went around the senate judiciary committee members is because all of these controversial guys have the same problem. they have the same problem with mcconnell, people like lisa murkowski, susan collins, the senators who won't necessarily

be suede as easily by trump because trump doesn't have leverage over them, so they have to find ways to convince them to back nominees and for kash patel's case, the idea was, well, if the senate judiciary committee reports out his nomination unanimously, mcconnell as an institutionalist would also vote in favor. they're trying to narrow down the number of people who can vote against him. it's been a clever strategy. >> have you heard a background check being conducted on patel. >> former fbi officials are concerned he would be handed unlimited power running the agency. >> yeah. there's been no suggestion that kash patel's name has been submitted to the fbi, the agency is supposed to lead in a number of months if all goes well. and that would be in keeping with the vast majority of trump's cabinet picks. so far the only confirmed cabinet pick we know of, whose name has been submitted for vetting, is pete hegseth.

and that was only because he was coming under immense pressure from senate republicans and so they very grudgingly submitted his name and then his lawyer said that had been done. but, you know, the wider point here is that kash patel and then we go through in the piece a little bit, kash patel's background check, even if it did end up happening, might be very, very limited. you know, kash patel is a former federal government employee. he's previously had background checks. and for people who get reinvestigated or reinvestigations done by the fbi, the white house can actually determine the parameters of those background investigations. so if trump or whoever else at the white house decides actually kash doesn't need a particularly deep investigation, it's fine. we'll just give him a security clearance, that can also be done. so i think the idea that we'll get a very aggressive background check is very slim. >> let me turn quickly to another controversy trump pick that being robert f. kennedy jr. a lawyer helping kennedy pick federal health officials for

trump's second term has previously petitioned the government to revoke its approval of the polio vaccine. is this creating waves in the senate that could hold up senator kennedy's confirmation? >> i think so. i'm not sure that was the smartest move on rfk junior's front. mitch mcconnell is a polio survivor. if you want to -- same point with kash patel and pete hegseth, you want mcconnell to support your nomination, probably best not to attack the thing that mcconnell thinks is really, really key. he is a survivor of polio. >> faithfully expected to save something problematic can be done by supporters,