tv The Weekend MSNBC December 15, 2024 6:00am-7:00am PST
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michael and i are here and alesia is off. new developments surrounding the settlement reached in donald trump's defamation lawsuit against abc. according to the settlement terms, abc agreed to pay $15 million to trump's future presidential foundation and museum. a foundation and museum that our msnbc legal correspondent lisa ruben points out has not even been formed yet. this all stems from allegations that anchor george stephanopoulos defamed trump during an interview. the congresswoman of nancy mays back in march. the lawsuit focused on george's language describing trump's treatment of women and the e. jean carroll case. lisa ruben is with us now and has been following this very closely. >> lisa, good to have you. you noted that this is unusual for parties in cases like this to sort of attach the settlement agreement to the notice of settlement or stipulations of the dismissal. your reasoning was or thinking was
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that this is something donald trump wanted to be made public in the first instance because of the value he gets out of it. so there is that piece. but if you can't speak to the fact of the settlement itself and how we got here without even sitting down and going through the process itself at abc, a lot of folks think they had a good hand to play here but folded before the game was really set. >> right. to extend your metaphor, michael, this is a game where we did not see all the cards on the table. so we don't know for example, what e-mail exchanges or text messages or the like would have been available to the former and future president trump with litigating this case. however, based on the information we publicly know, agree with you that abc had a strong hand to play. it could
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have been the quintessential example of winning the battle and losing the war. and this is what i mean. if abc continued to litigate with donald trump, yes, they would have had access to trump's deposition but they also would have had to make one of their premier posts george stephanopoulos available for his own deposition and continuing to litigate with donald trump after he takes office, they may have put themselves in a situation where their access to the trump administration at large was compromised. as we all well know, this is not a standard defamation case where somebody says something that gets picked up by a media outlet. it is a defamation case that was against a media outlet. and in the battle for profit and ratings, abc is a subsidiary of the walt disney company. that is a publicly traded corporation. there was too much at risk to continue this lawsuit on both sides. the trump people didn't want trump to sit for a deposition.
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but abc, going into the new administration, could ill afford a situation where all of its journalists could have been blocked from access to donald trump and others in the administration which may have been a tacit if not explicit threat. >> it feels chilling to even say that out loud, lisa. i'm flabbergasted actually. truly flabbergasted. my text messages were blowing up from two constituencies. lawyers that were interested in the case and other journalists who felt the president that the settlement sets is a dangerous one for all of us. we are not to similarly situated from abc and less nbc itself is with a corporation that has shareholders. at least as of now, until we get spun off into this spin code that has been announced. from any of us that are
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participants and with the far right or even what maga called legacy media, this does put a chill over us in terms of how we speak about the former and future president and what that means in terms of our capacity to cover him in a responsible way. it is chilling for all of us. not just in watching the abc example but in thinking about how we all cover this person about whom we feel a great responsibility to tell the truth to our publican our viewers. >> can i just say that, in the new iteration of msnbc, it will be privately owned. they will also have shareholders. george stephanopoulos, just to be clear about what he said during the interview, he said trump has been found liable for rape by a jury. he was so liable in a civil case for sexually abusing trend 55 and not for the alleged rape. and when asked whether win five provided evidence, but then you
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have the judge in the case after that exchange with nancy mays and george stephanopoulos, the judge came out and put an asterisk there and kind of underscored that what george stephanopoulos said is true. to someone watching this it might sound like semantics. but for me, as michael and i are sitting here and we all go on tv all the time and we talk about latebreaking news. i'm just kind of wondering, the parsing of this, the judge said george stephanopoulos was right essentially. but donald trump sued anyway for defamation. and abc made a calculated decision to say, we are just going to pay. george stephanopoulos also has to pay. on the hook for a million dollars of his own money. and that leaves the rest of us with -- we want to be accurate. we have a standards department. we are all endeavoring to keep the
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bar high and substantive and not engage in a conversation where people just lie or have conspiracy theories and they themselves are not accurate. this seems quite targeted and i don't think george stephanopoulos was wrong. i'm sorry. >> now you all got nothing to say or else there is a lawsuit. this is the affect. my mom is about to text me, shut up. >> what i was going to say is i'm not sure if george stephanopoulos was wrong but where this case emerges from or where he got tripped up is in attempting to describe what was found by the jury. as you noted, the jury itself found very precisely that donald trump did not commit rape within the technical definition of the new york criminal code. they found him liable for
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sexual abuse. judge kaplan who is in the near case brought by trend 50 find -- in a separate finding, said he could not sue e. jean carroll for the verdict because colloquial speaking, what trump did to e. jean carroll could be understood by normal nonlegal people as a rape. essentially what they found is that he digitally penetrated her. but new york law said that unless there is genital to genital contact, it is not rape. the problem with what george stephanopoulos said is that he was trying to describe the jury verdict and not what conventional people understood or at least the difference i just described to you is how a florida district court judge saw it when faced with a motion to dismiss george stephanopoulos and abc. and having not won on that dismissal on solely legal grounds, abc said what the new york judge found and what george stephanopoulos said was
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so similar that the issue had already been litigated and there was nothing for donald trump to sue about. the florida judge disagreed and that is what allowed the case to continue and put abc in the position of either having to continue to litigate through discovery and potentially to trial or to settle this thing now, shortly after a judge ruled on friday that both sides will have to sit for the deposition. >> always bringing the knowledge and the information. thank you so much. appreciated. >> next, our conversation with one of the men running to lead the democratic national committee, wisconsin democratic party chair ben wikler joins us right here when we come back. later, congresswoman ayanna pressley joins the conversation as well. we will have good conversation ahead. this is the weekend on msnbc. w
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loss this past november, the democratic national committee is analyzing what went wrong and how to move forward. the answer to the question will eventually be answered by one of the five people on your screen. there might be more than enter the race. all of these folks are running to become the chair of the democratic national committee and lead the party's strategy and the 2026 midterms and the next presidential election. according to nbc news and interviews, the candidate said that as the party moves into 2025, it should be armed with learning lessons about an election in which the democratic presidential candidate lost every battleground state and the popular vote. what are the lessons? one of the candidates for the dnc chair joins us now, ben wikler, chair of the wisconsin democratic party. >> mr. chairman, welcome. i have been waiting for this conversation. i have to tell you. i have been very impressed with your leadership in wisconsin. remind me of a few former chairman and my party who
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understood the importance of not just the end game, winning the election, but the process to get there and set it up. you did an interview with vanity fair in which you noted a lot of voters are only hearing about democrats and republicans. and when that is the case, they will always get the most republican caricature that can be mustered. there is a significant challenge to make sure democrats are telling their own story. that was part of your keys to laying out that the party right now, the brand, is broken. it is something i understood when i inherited the rnc leadership in 2009, that the brand was broken. how do you approach a potential chairmanship of the democratic party with respect to a 50 state strategy versus a wing state focus. a grassroots bottom.
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you win elections not just top- down but bottom-up. how do you see this process unfolding for a new democratic party under your leadership? >> mr. chairman, great to be with you this morning. and symone, great to be with you. this is a crisis moment for the country and we will face enormous challenges by the republican party trying to rate the country for a handful of billionaires that have been at the top. democrats need to be stronger and fight back in a way that builds back trust for working folks to show we are on their side. right now democrats often have a good message. when we think we are blowing in a megaphone, it sounds like a kudzu. and if we don't figure out or do the work that they have been doing in wisconsin to build a multitude of messengers who are communicating on every medium and podcast and streaming and on cable news and conservative media and emerging independent progressive media, to make the case that trump is trying to
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divide people in order to rip everybody off across areas, suburbs and cities alike. in order to benefit a tiny number of people that we are fighting for everyone. if we can get that message across in places, we will keep losing. i want you win. that means communicating and organizing everywhere year around. >> so the rules for the chair's race and the democrats will be electing a new chair and a vice chair as well. secretary and whatnot. the rules have been established , i believe this last thursday. 40-48 members will make the decision. dnc members. many folks are not members of congress. and you will need 40 signatures to officially put your name in the ballot from dnc members through january 25th. do you have your signatures yet? >> i either have them now or i will have them by the end of the day. and very excited to be
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officially in this race and in this conversation. my message to dnc members is that what we have done in wisconsin with the infrastructure offices around the state and organizing staff that build neighbor to neighbor conversations and friend to friend and micro influencers and macro influencers that affect the online conversation as well as traditional, that model can work across the country. it can look different in different places. it is not a cookie-cutter. it is a 50 state strategy. if we do this now, we will be able to flip a bunch of seats that might feel out of reach from where we sit now as republicans take total control of the government. >> you have a number of outlets reporting about the breakup and the decline in the fall of the democratic party. certainly many of us heard that and some inside the republican
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party said that back in the day after losing a 2006, 2008. the recovery process is an important part of establishing the leadership for the party. you have got opponents that are announced or intending to run for governor or state senator and the department of health and human services officials very different sort of brand of backgrounds. what makes you stands out from the martin o'malleys and the nate snyders who are also intending to run? >> i think what we need across this country is what we have been building in wisconsin. wisconsin is one of the toughest states to win in the country. it is rigged by gop operatives for total control. over the last six years and on the work of my predecessor, building on the work of jimmy harrison, we will be able to
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organize and show that when you go when the voters are and understand that you need somebody messengers in different communities to be able to make this work at a macro level, we work on the streets of form supreme races on legislative races and that builds up to governors races. u.s. senator races. and that will flip control of the u.s. house and senate and state level trifecta's and winning a federal trifecta in 2028. that is the kind of track record that you need from a state like wisconsin to be able to build what we need nationwide. that is my argument. that you can see what we have done with record resources and with unity and focus and a fight up and down about year around that we have been able to win and in moments where people thought we were going to lose. that is what we need nationally now. the party has strong votes but we need more muscle to fight, unite and win elections up and down the ballot.
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>> what have your conversations been like with the dnc membership? both with the dnc members in wisconsin and members across the country. there 448 folks to make this decision. if on the first ballot there is not a clear winner, it will go to a second ballot and on the ballots continue to go until someone is picked. the difference here than what people might have seen trying to pick a speaker situation in congress, is that the lowest vote-getter will be dropped off . if there our people in the ballot, they will just drop off until finally there are two people down there and somebody else will win. >> what are the conversations. i'm talking to members and they say they are looking to hear about the plans for fundraising because the chair will have to fund raise and they will have to work with leaders of the house and the senate, the democratic leaders there. the chair will also be the person that puts together the process or, for 2028.
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the calendar will change. every year, democrats will revisit the calendar. what have you told folks and what kind of commitments are you making to people out there as you work for their support? >> only democrats are looking for a national chair so they can unite the party for the modern and progressive wings and also the national and state parts of the party and with our partners, with the union movement and allies in grassroots organizations with folks on the inside and working with candidates. that is kind of the special strength is that i bring here. my previous job, in that role, i work with national elected leaders and with grassroots groups across the country to fight back against the repeal of the affordable care act. and then i moved home to wisconsin and i worked with our amazing governor, tony devers, who is such a champion. right now we have a campaign operation building to win the supreme state court race in the spring. susan crawford and an attacker
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against abortion rights. the kind of focus on a race like that that affects the future of the state, even though i'm running for dnc chair, that is the kind of focus on unity and winning that a lot of folks are responding to well. we are getting to know each other for the first time. there is a real openness and i think we will see a lot of movement in january and this race as it comes into clear focus. at the record i have been able to build. $230 million we raised in wisconsin more than any other democratic state in the country and also the kind of fight we can use the resources to bring from the grassroots on up. a lot of folks want to see that kind of fight nationally for the next four years and that is the conversation i'm having with dnc members now. >> the selection by the dnc at this point, the person they choose will tell you the direction the party wants to go and how they want to get there. it really does matter who the
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chairman is when you are in the position that the democrats find themselves in right now. >> and who the chairman hires. we will have more conversation and hear from all the people. >> you know what that is like. >> what do you mean you didn't hire my consultant? not at those rates. >> britney will get me. i will say, she is our senior producer. one of the questions on the table from the last election has to do with vendors and diverse vendors. people of color, latino, hispanic. do you have anything you want to tell the people about vendors and your position they are? >> absolutely. we should not assume the contracts should exist going forward. we need a vendor team and a staff team and a primary calendar that reflects our coalition and reflects the groups we need to be able to draw on their life experience and wisdom about this work to be able to win. and
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across gender, geography and across the country. if we don't have the right voices in the room when we are making the plans, then we will make the wrong plans. this i think is really critical . to make sure we have folks that know how to communicate in ways that resonate and in places that resonate and voters we need to reach. when we dig to the data, we can see there is more reaching we need to do if we are going to start winning elections again. >> thank you so much. we will talk to you again soon. coming up, what happens when donald trump's extreme border agenda collides with the reality? we will talk about that with major general brandy manor next. this is brandy manor next. th the weekend.
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his desire to use the military to get the job done. on tuesday, senate judiciary committee heard from witnesses addressing how trump's mass deportation plan could have dire consequences for american communities. the economy and even the military. one of the witnesses is retired major general randy manner that urges any future presidential administration to keep immigration enforcement and the military separate. makes sense to me. take a listen to why he thinks this is so necessary. >> involving military and a politically charged issue like mass deportation would erode public trust in the military. americans trust our military because it protects all of us regardless of our politics, for the possibility of foreign aggression. >> major general randy manner joining us now. he is also the committee chair for the national security leaders for america. welcome. good to have you. >> thank you for being with
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us. good morning. we talked to a lot of different folks. particularly in the national security and military infrastructure. everyone i have spoken to says that this puts the military in an untenable position as servicemen and women. they don't sign up to essentially police americans on american soil. that is not what they are signing up to serve for. can you dig deeper into what you were saying about the military's role that the president-elect wants them to add into these mass deportations and why it is why people going to service? >> it is important to restate, what is the primary mission of the u.s. military? of course it is to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic of course and typically what that means is two fold. number one, we talk about the external threats relative to china and relative to russia and other hotspots around the world. for those that like to
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do us harm. it means increasing the and operability with our allies and it means taking care of our servicemen and their families. it is absolutely a legitimate mission to be able to help safeguard our borders. absolutely. meaning the idea of surveilling the border and so on, that is a legitimate mission. this is really absolutely about scope. the primary mission is to focus on combat operations. that means that, while we have, under all presidents, and when i say all presidents, republican and democrat, we have had military on the border assisting the custom and border protection agency and it is something where we have been in a support role and the scope has been small. that really is the most important thing the american people have to understand, that helping out here on the border is a legitimate mission. providing surveillance and targeting,
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which is what tom homan has mentioned, on his fax interview , that is absolutely stretching into the illegal activity and that is something the american military must never be placed in the situation of surveilling our own people within our country. >> further to your point, you have embassy -- nbc reporting about donald trump's intention to scrap the ice policy currently in place. currently donald trump plans to rescind the policy as soon as the first day he is in office meaning the policy restricting ice arrests at churches, schools and hospitals. this is bigger than, or the intent is to be bigger at the end of the day than just to the mass deportation. there are other aspects of the use of our military not just in this space with respect to migrants but also, i suspect in
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other areas as well. protests, generally speaking, et cetera, windy american people are not in alignment with the intent of a fascist, authoritarian effort by the government. to quell the response is a role that the military will play on like we have ever seen before. >> i hope that the president does not use the military to enforce his political agenda relative to things that might be controversial. what i mean by that is the police and ice and customs and border patrol, they receive hundreds of hours of training, of how to effectively deal with both immigrants and american citizens in these kinds of situations. the u.s. military receives zero training in this and even
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national guard units, only a small tiny number of national guard units receive on average 4-8 hours of civil service training per year. the american military and the national guard are absolutely not trained to do these kinds of missions. and to put them in that environment, not only could potentially harm the american citizens and the immigrants but it could bring harm to the actual service members who, this is not within their area. again, i urge all lawmakers to take a look at this and say, use the forces that are trained to do those missions and keep the military out of it. >> the president-elect did an interview with time magazine basically saying does not basically, he was pressed on how he would respond if the military refuses to carry out orders. donald trump said i will only do with the law allows but i will go to the
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maximum level of what the law allows. do you think in your summation, that if the president does send a directive, and even in some scope, within the scope of the law, that military service members should refuse the orders ? >> what would you do? >> first of all, the chairman and the joint chiefs is the senior military adviser to the president. general millie, on many occasions, spoke out directly and and forcibly about, what is the extent of the law and quite frankly, what is ethically correct and the use of the military and what is its impact on the national readiness to deter china, russia and all of the literally 160 countries where we presently have military deployed. i think it is very important to say that there is a chain of command in the military to implement the orders of the president because
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he is the commander-in-chief, whether it is president biden or president-elect trump. i think it is something where, in the end, the president has the authority to fire any military officer who does not implement his orders. i think the american people have to be very aware of this and it is actually something where again, the good men don't tread about pushing the limit of the law as it applies to military. i strongly believe that if they are not enough ice agents and not enough border patrol agents, then those agencies and the department of homeland security, whose mission it is to do this should go to congress, ask for additional funds for additional agents and then go that way. again, the message is clear. the american people do not want to see uniformed military personnel at these weddings or at these events and these cities.
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that is just not what the american military is trained for and should not be used for those missions. >> general randy manner, thank you very much. >> congresswoman ayanna pressley will join us to talk about the historic day of clemency and what else she wants to see from the president before the next president is inaugurated. this is the weekend! (children speaking) conflict is raging across the world, and millions of children's lives are being devastated by war, hunger,
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a month to decide whether he will pardon members of the house january 6 select committee. lawmakers who could face a tradition against donald trump. so far, he has only issued pardons for convicted offenders . on thursday alone, he issued 39 pardons and nearly 1500 commutations. as the largest single day of clemency, day, act of clemency in modern history. to discuss, we have one of the stars of the democratic party, democratic congresswoman ayanna pressley. good to see you. >> good to be with you. >> it is great to have you in the neighborhood. you responded i believe to the president's mass clemency announcement with a statement that read or reads "with 39 days remaining in his presidency, president biden has the power to continue to use his clemency authority to
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change and save the lives of many other americans behind the wall. it is the right thing to do. it is the moral thing to do and it is a matter of legacy. who do you hope to see pardoned next? >> with respect to your statement, there has been sort of this curious reaction to president biden's pardoning of 1500 individuals. give us your thinking behind this and why you think what the president did made sense relative to what we have seen presidents do. -- this is one of the largest mass partings we have seen in a long while if ever. people are curious about it. give us your thinking behind your statement and what the president did?
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>> first, mass incarceration has been a problem for decades. the broken clemency system is intervening to that mass incarceration crisis. the office of the pardoning attorney has some 10,000 individuals whose lives are in limbo. there are people who are incarcerated because of unjust sentencing disparities. there are people disabled that are elderly and chronically ill. there are women who are incarcerated for defending themselves against their abusers. there are people incarcerated for cannabis convictions. and so, we have the power. the president has the power. he has the responsibility to address a systemic injustice and to get our nation on a pathway to healing. reuniting people with their families and giving them a second chance to make a positive contribution. this action that president biden did come which i applaud, as a result of the advocacy of myself and many others with the
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cares act at the height of the care act, many people were on home confinement. and they pose no threat to public safety. they have been reunited with their families and reintegrated into communities. the whole time, looking over their shoulders, wondering if they could be sent back. that is no way for anyone to live. i'm thinking about one such recipients of the president's historic action which i applaud him for using his authority in this way. it is the right thing to do. it is a matter of legacy. a 69-year-old recipient of the president's action serving a 40 year sentence for a nonviolent cannabis conviction. he no longer has to look over his shoulder and wonder if he will be sent back or taken away from his family. this is a bold, necessary and historic step in the right direction. and i'm calling on the president to use his authority to continue to do more of this. >> you think you should do what , 1500 more or 3000 more or as
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many more possible frankly between now and january 20th? >> again, mass incarceration is a crisis. we are just coming off of the thanksgiving holiday. one out of two people call this country home and have an incarcerated loved one. there are a lot of empty seats around the holiday table. this is an opportunity to use the authority, the power of clemency, pardons, commutations, to reunite people with their families and give them an opportunity to make a positive contribution to society. and i think we should be pushing hard to do that. during the month of december and not waiting until january. we have no idea what procedural hurdles will be put in place or what the president-elect, his administration, will undo. and we are not just talking about individuals but the families that do this time alongside them. my father was incarcerated for many years because of his substance use disorder was criminalized here when my came out, he went on to be an assistant dean at a college, a
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professor of journalism and today is a successfully published author. most of all, walked me down the aisle 10 years ago to the love of my life. but there are so many people who have contributions like that of my father to make and they are not being afforded an opportunity. people who have been victims of disparities. women defending themselves against their abusers. people that are disabled and are elderly who pose no threat to public safety and people incarcerated because of cannabis convictions. why is anyone still incarcerated for cannabis conviction pixi has the authority and needs to use it. it is a matter of the right thing and it is a matter of legacy. >> i think a lot of people would agree with you and in particular with respect to cannabis incarcerations and et cetera. you do have the other side of this which has become problematic. the guardian is reporting on the victims of the kids for cash being released. victims of a former pennsylvania judge convicted in the so-called kids for cash
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scandal are outraged by joe biden's decision to grant him a pardon. in 2011, michael carnahan was sentenced to more than 17 years in prison after he and another judge were found guilty of accepting two deck $8 million in illegal payments and exchange and here's the part, folks, in exchange for sending more than 2300 children, including some as young as eight years old, to private juvenile detention centers and they had a financial stake in. they get a pardon. how then should we be looking at this process?. you have this part of it as well. this individual who sent 2300 children to prison because he won the financial benefit of having the kids in a prison that he had a financial stake in? >> i don't have any insight on these specific cases or the
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rationale. what i can say is that there are hundreds of thousands of people based on the president's action, who have hope about the fate of their loved ones. and the president should use that authority to reunite those people with their families and afford them an opportunity to make a positive contribution to society. again, the office of the pardoning attorney has some 10,000 individuals whose lives hang in the balance because of a backlog. and it's not just individuals. it is families. people loved by their families for part of communities. and might i add. this is work i have been doing for a long time. three years ago, myself and cory busch introduced the fixed clemency act to introduce a backlog. november 21st, myself, jim clyburn and 60 other democrats initiated a letter to the president calling on him to use his authority during this time of lame-duck and those are members of congress from across
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the ideological spectrum, new democrats, congressional black caucus. there is a consensus. widely so that mass incarceration is a crisis because of an unjust criminal legal system and the broken clemency process has contributed to the mass incarceration price. the president has the authority to do something about it. it is doing the right thing and it is a matter of legacy. >> congresswoman ayanna pressley, thank you very much. now an update on another story we are following. speaker nancy pelosi underwent a successful hip replacement surgery in luxembourg according to a statement from her office. this is after an injury she sustained during a congressional delegation. spokesperson said the former speaker is well on the mend. there is much more ahead to discuss. first, you can listen to us on the weekend on the podcast anytime anywhere and now
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can we go back to the kids for cash? >> weekend. >> i have been doing juvenile justice work for a long time. the kids for cash scandal is harrowing. there is a documentary about a. people should watch it. these judges, they shut down the county jail so that they could funnel these students, these young people to the for-profit jail they had a stake in and they were sending them for things like being disruptive in class to jail. >> it is shameful. the work i did as lieutenant governor with a juvenile jail in baltimore, you are sitting there with young kids, 13, 14 years old. and to know, and this is
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related as well, to know in the system, somewhere else in the country, that a judge would find the financial benefit to himself to imprison a child, that is despicable. the pardon to me is highly questionable. >> who put these people on the list? >> i would like to know who put them on the list. and who said this is someone you should pardon, putting 2300 kids in jail so he could get paid. pardon that. >> that does it for the weekend . this is sunday morning. we have ali next after a very short break. a deal! new and existing customers, trade in your busted old phone, and we'll give you a new iphone 16 pro with apple intelligence on us. (children speaking)
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we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! sitting on all this cash. if you own a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're
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