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sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. good morning. it is sunday december 15th. and melissa murray filling in for ali velshi. which is five weeks until inauguration day, donald trump's administration continues to take shape with no announcements just hours ago. last night, trump picked longtime loyalists devon nunez among others for roles in the new administration. a former republican congressman and current ceo of trance media network through social has been

tapped to lead the president's intelligence advisory board, and the dependent group within the executive office that oversees the intelligence community. according to trump nunez will continue to serve as ceo of true social while also serving in this new government role. nunez served as chair of house intelligence committee during trump's first term and used that to defend trump during the fbi's brush investigation alleging in memo that an fbi conspiracy against trump . it seems that is exactly why donald trump picked him for this new gig. the president-elect says nunez will drive from his experience , quote, and exposing the russia, russia, russia hoax. richard grenell, longtime adviser who served in the whole host of roles in the first administration was also tapped. this time for a newly created position. residential envoy for special missions. trump said in a social media post that grenell will work quote, in the hottest spots around the world. including venezuela and north korea.

the president-elect announced a slew of other appointments, after he attended the 125th army navy college football game. this time flanked by a posse of political allies and cabinet hope pulls. from a congressional side, house speaker mike johnson and incoming senate majority leader john thune as well as incoming pennsylvania senator elect david mccormick were in attendance. j.d. vance also attended and for his +1 by the daniel penney, the former marine who was this week acquitted in the chokehold death of brittany leon a new york city subway. wait, there's more to this entourage. self-described first buddy elon musk was also in attendance, as were two of trump's controversial pics for high- ranking government officials, secretary of defense. pete hegseth and trump's choice for director of national intelligence, tulsi gabbard were among the faithful. now to be fair, hegseth's nomination seems to be on firm

footing after you spent last week at capitol hill meeting with moderate republicans including iowa senator joni ernst and of course those meetings took place amid a pressure campaign targeting the very same moderates who are potential holdouts. with political threats of primaries, a dark money group associated with elon musk even when ads an iowa called there moderates like ernst to support hegseth according to maggie haberman of the new york times. haberman also reports that trump chose to stick with hegseth despite the misconduct allegations in part because trump's second choice for the job ron desantis lacked support among the inner circle. desantis by the way was also at the football game. but that may be because trump is reportedly urging the florida governor to appoint his daughter-in-law, lara trump to the senate seats that marco rubio once filled, of course if rubio is confirmed as secretary of state. all of that is according to fox news.

trumps pick for fbi director, kash patel was not at the army- navy football game. nevertheless, it was a busy week for him as he too made the rounds on capitol hill showing up support from high-ranking republicans like thom tillis and chuck grassley to both sit on the judicial committee. training me to discuss all of these developments are barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan, also composed of the sisters podcaster, and msnbc legal analyst. joining her is rick wilson, founder of the lincoln product and former republican stratus day strategist. welcome to both of you. rick, let's talk about the devon nunez pick. what does it mean for him to oversee, from an advisory role, the u.s. intelligence community? >> the president's foreign intelligence advisory board is an extra 90 intelligence -- who will certainly cast openly the

long record of security in that organization and that the significant work they do in politicizing in favor of donald trump. it is no shock and it also represents quite a compromise that true social is in part, funded by foreign persons and enterprises. and devon is going to remain over there and yet some of the people giving money including oaks from russia and folks from saudi arabia are targets of the intelligence community. so i think he has a compromise position but it is no shock that trump named him. -- is not a bright man but he's loyal to donald trump. >> loyalty clearly as part of the equation here but bart, rick has highlighted some of the possible conflicts of interest that might attend an appointment like this. can you elaborate on what does it mean for nunez to operate through social while taking on

this new role as an overseer for the intelligence community? >> maggie and melissa, this is a shocking, astonishing, disturbing, and fill in your descriptor, conflict of interests. as chairman, devin nunes will have access to all of the intelligence that is gathered by the intelligence community. the idea is that he supposed to be the president's eyes and ears over the intelligence community. with that information, and simultaneously serving as the head of true social, it means he has the ability to post things he shouldn't know but also as he points out, the fact that true social receives funding from foreign governments, while there is also targets of our intelligence come is deeply disturbing. if someone had to go through a routine background investigation, those conflicts with the flat with screaming sirens and i would imagine that most president parlors --

residents would find him to be a nonstarter but donald trump is putting in place, knowing about this complex. of all of the appointments, this conflict might be the most disturbing. >> there's a lot of disturbing things going on with the cabinet picks. rick, barb mentioned these conflicts of interest ordinarily would be a nonstarter and also would've been a nonstarter, the fact of the serious allegations of misconduct against pete has who denied the allegations. but i want to play something we just heard. gretchen carlson joined my colleagues on the weekend the last hour and here's what she had to say about the allegations coming out of fox news about hegseth. >> now they are saying that all these anonymous sources we are talking about his behavior at fox news, the anonymous sources that said he was sexually harassing, a woman said she was sexually assaulted by him. unless they put a name and taste to it we don't believe

them anymore. that is not the way the system works. in journalism or with sexual assault, why do we call people jane doe. we do that because there is intense fear of coming forward and you want to have the right coming after you if you come forward? why is this woman in hiding? look what happened to christine blasey ford. it ain't fun to come forward. >> carlson branson organization working to fight sexual misconduct with a target on nondisclosure agreements. rick, what you make of trumps persistence with the hegseth nomination despite the nominations? >> low, donald trump, to modify -- defining the presidency down. he wants people of low moral character. he wants people without experience necessary to lead significant organizations

inside our government. he wants people who put loyalty, obedience and trolling ahead of competence, probity and governance. there's nothing about pete hegseth's background in terms of the ability to manage something as complex as the dod that would lead you to conclude he's anyway conflict -- anyway qualified. you add the alcohol problems, his own mother describing him as an abuser of women. this is not something that should say to america, here is a strong, tough guy that trump likes. this is a damaged, broken man who can be exploited by our enemies and unfortunately for us, donald trump again, he wants to push everyone down to his level. he wants the lowest possible denominators for leadership and character in these offices. because he himself is a man of low and no moral character. is not a smart guy. is not an experienced guy.

he's won two elections out of three but i will tell you, he's not capable and competent in the way you would be strong enough to go out and select people who are good for the country, good for the office he wants them to hold and who can act with independence and judgment. >> barb, another important development to cover. yesterday abc agreed to donate $50 million to donald trump's presidential library in order to settle a defamation suit. can you take us through this settlement and what it might mean going forward, for media who are covering the trump presidency and their opportunity to surface misconduct or other allegations within the administration? >> i think it is a concerning fine, melissa, that abc buckled. they were just about to take the deposition of donald trump this week, which would have helped solidify their case, which is already in my view, a strong case. the phrases that they objected to was george stephanopoulos

repeatedly said that donald trump had been found civilly liable for rape. what the jury actually found with sexual assault but the judge said, that in the way the terms are commonly understood, donald trump did indeed commit rape. it is a matter of interpretation about what the word means. but ordinarily, in defamation cases, you have to prove that the person was defamed, that there was actual malice and that the gist of the story was inaccurate. in addition you have to show the person's reputation was harmed in this way. it seems that abc had a very strong case here and yet they sort of caved anyway. and i think it sends a bad signal to other media enterprises that may have a chilling effect or self censoring effect on the media, as a cover the trump administration. of course, a vigorous free press is essential to any administration, even more so in one way or donald trump is about to go after his enemy.

>> rick, the media is an important guardrail for any administration going forward, but even moderates within the party can play that role. that there is reporting that senator lisa murkowski has complained about the pressure campaign. around the senators who do not enthusiastically back trumps cabinet picks like senator joni ernst for example. obviously the incoming administration use this as a strategy to keep the party in mind but are there particular republicans for whom the strategy is likely to be especially effective or especially ineffective and what can they do to resist, if they do watch to raise questions about these pics. >> i have long ago given up on the moral back down over the republican party in the senate, particularly. that i will say this. the pressure campaign is calibrated right now to do one thing. to invoke fear of their physical and political interests. they want them to feel like they are going to have people come and kill them like they

tried to do january 6 or people primary them and push them out of office. you are going to see this play out, and a lot of the people you think have independence are going to cave quickly. joni ernst was one of those folks. who has a background from the national security, and understands what is that sake with grenell but they turn on 100,000 robo calls a day to her office, when they turn on the butt farms to call her out and push her out of office, if she doesn't obey, it speaks to something broader. this is an autocratic tactic by an autocratic president to be. the whole thing about not complying in advance, someone said to me this morning, the reason abc collapsed is not because they are abc but because disney and all its other corporate ownership structure have other deals they want to accomplish. they are afraid will be blocked by the administration. they are complying in advance. they are caving in advance.

so i think it is important, these senators, a lot of them who think -- okay, i will give into trump. maga will primary them in 2026 and 2028. they will come to get them because they weren't enthusiastic cheerleaders of donald trump. because they went crazy over the top, yes, pete hegseth is the best candidate over. all these things are going to add up over time and they are going to realize that when you feed the crocodile, eventually run out of things to throw the crocodile at and it eats you. >> we are going to leave it there. barb mcquaid, and rick wilson, thanks for getting us started. more unexplainable drones lighting up the skies over new jersey and they are leaving local and federal authorities perplexed. are the officials any closer to figuring out who is behind them? a live report is next. next. dayquil vapocool?

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officials from multiple states in the northeast are demanding that the federal government to more about the reported drone siding that have been going on for weeks now. that -- let's get to this with sam brock who's been following the story for us. he joins us now from west orange new jersey. sam, what is the latest? >> reporter: good morning. the last four weeks have set up something of a frenzy with people and communities from new york to new jersey and elsewhere wondering what is going on. the fbi is trying to calm fears by saying look, we believe that based on the evidence that almost all of these are manned aircraft, not drones. but melissa, it does prompt conversation about whether or not our agencies are up to date to respond to a situation like this. what is that? the last time this many people

had their eyes trained on the sky, they were watching april's solar eclipse and there's something much more mysterious has their attention. drones, seemingly everywhere this week. >> this is crazy how fast this is moving. >> reporter: with sightings reported in five states, new jersey alone recording up to 180 per night. >> how many would you say are above us? >> reporter: residents both curious and alarmed. >> there was a humming sound and it sounded like a helicopter and i was like um it's not strong enough to be a helicopter. >> reporter: some lawmakers say they've been left in the dark. >> i been frustrating, it's not been enough trance be allowing misinformation to spread or appear. >> reporter: and new jersey congressman making this claim. >> i ran much the mothership probably a month ago that contains these drones and these are from high sources. i don't say this lightly. >> reporter: the pentagon has shot down the idea. their part the fbi and

department of homeland security say there is no national security threat and no evidence of foreign influence. but then, what is going on? >> right above my house. >> reporter: one popular theory, the u.s. government is flying these drones as part of a top-secret program, something the secret service denies. frank served as assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi. >> is the federal government testing something? but the public is going to jump to a conspiracy theory and by the way, i understand that. if they're going to think look, we are not getting the facts, this can't be that the government doesn't have answers. it must be there covering up secret testing program. >> reporter: the fda -- faa is in charge of drone regulations but may not have the need -- the tools they need for enforcement. >> another example of technology getting in front of us and now we are wondering who's in charge. >> reporter: some of those drones are reportedly white large. recreational drone typically is around one to two feet in diameter but these mysterious

drones are said to measure six feet, roughly the size of a refrigerator. drone capabilities are also expanding. police use them for crowd control and to assist first responders. soldiers to play them on battlefields around the world. the worst case scenario, a terror strike. >> make no bones about it, that when you get to a certain size and capacity to actually carry weaponry, you are talking about the potential for violent attack. >> reporter: get another reason he says the time for congress to act as right now. updating drone laws and coordinating federal response efforts. as these nighttime phantoms flying around neighborhoods, continue to worry residents and spark more conversations about why they are there. so melissa, the fbi, the faa, the dhs, doj, i know that is acronyms, they got together over the weekend or i should say recently and held a press conference that is to discuss with reporters what is going on. they had some very interesting pieces of information.

they received 5000 tips, only 100 of them they say are actionable. that is to present. they also said is quite an overlap between the density of drone sightings and what is going on in terms of light patterns at newark, laguardia and jfk. we can put the pieces together on this but they contained manned aircraft is what is going on melissa. >> that is nbc news' sam brock. thank you for that update. up next, in the largest single day act of clemency in modern history, president biden commuted the sentences of nearly 1500 americans on his way out of office. donald trump on the other hand is promising to pardon most of the people accused and convicted in the january 6th insurrection on his way into office. were on the pardoning power, up next. p next. a parade. everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa—

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president biden is making history in its final weeks in the white house. last week he commuted 1500 sentences and issued 39 pardons , the largest act of clemency in a single day in modern presidential history. and there could be more with biden saying in a statement that he will quote, take more steps in the weeks ahead. many who received pardons were convicted of nonviolent offenses and completed their sentences. but some of biden's clemency recipients have raised eyebrows. starting with the broad pardon for biden's son, hunter who was found guilty of gun and tax charges earlier this year. is also jimmy damar, a former ohio county commissioner convicted of 32 corruption -related charges including racketeering, bribery and conspiracy. and there's rita conwell, former comptroller of dixon, illinois convicted in what is believed to be the largest municipal pride case in u.s. history. is also, pennsylvania judge michael callahan who was sentenced to 17.5 years in prison for funneling juvenile

defendants to private for- profit is the pension -- detention centers for which he received kickbacks. the biden administration is said to be mulling pre-emptive pardons for current and public officials who the incoming trump administration my target. meanwhile, president-elect trump is vowing to pardon most of the people accused and convicted in the january 6th insurrection. joining me now to discuss all of these developments is rachel park hill, my colleague at nyu law and a member of the u.s. sentencing commission. so rachel is also author of the forthcoming book justice abandoned, how the supreme court ignore the constitution and enabled mass incarcerations. you are the perfect person to talk about all of this. what you make of president biden's history making day of common? >> i would caution with that history making day pr is really saying. you know he's only actually released 31 people from prison in his entire four years and so

what he did on that day, was release people from the rest of their sentences, they were already on home confinement. these are people who had been out under the c.a.r.e.s. act, which was pandemic legislation that let vulnerable people out of prison. if they got approval and they were all actually released under attorney general bill barr. so some of the people she named in the introduction were released by bill barr, on home confinement and what president biden did is make a categorical sweep for those folks to say, look, you are not going to get sent back to prison. we are going to let you stay out, you're been on good behavior, you haven't done anything wrong. so it was a very good thing that he did, but it is actually pretty minor in the grants team of things. >> those are computations as opposed to the actual pardons of individuals. one person who did receive a pardon and a rather sweeping one is the president's own son hunter biden. what you make of that pardon, of its sweep and is it likely

that it will be challenged by the incoming administration or is the pardon power sacrosanct? >> it is sacrosanct, that is ironclad. they can try to challenge it but they won't succeed. in terms of what i think about it, i never understood why president biden said earlier that he wasn't going to do it and as soon as his son was charge, that he's going to get a pardon eventually because what parent lets their child go through that. but he had said i'm not going to do it. he said it repeatedly and i'm not sure why he did that. but then he went back on his word and he did it. in terms of the sweeping nature, that, actually think was necessary to achieve his goal, because what he thinks, and i think he's right, is the hunter was targeted because he's the president son and they're going to keep targeting him. they're going to try to find ways to go after him and the

only way you can shield from that is to get this kind of expensive, from the state to this date pre-emptive part in. >> the president apparently is mulling the prospect of the amped of pardons for other individuals likely to be targeted by the incoming and thracian and in the "new york times" recently, a former doj official wrote this. she's on the enemies list, and she notes she doesn't want a pardon from biden. the "new york times" she writes if we broke the law we should be charge and convicted. we did break the law we should show that we trust the fairness of the justice system and we shouldn't give permission to future presidents to pardon political allies that commit real crimes on their behalf. what you make of this? >> it is certainly her prerogative if she's offered a pardon to say i don't want it. >> she has not been offered a part in. >> she can say i don't want. a lot of people facing the threat of retaliatory persecution because of their politics, it is expensive, it is scary and you never really know how things are going to turn out even when you are innocent. and i think the idea that our

system is perfect and don't worry about it, it is a little bit utopian and naove because the fact of the matter is that some innocent people are convicted -- convicted and it is super expensive to defend yourself and it is worrisome. i don't know everyone would take the approach he's taking and say no thank you i'm going to go ahead and show that they should show everyone. some people would rather avoid that mystery. >> what you think about the pledge to pardon, this is from the incoming administration to pardon those convicted of offenses from january 6. does that seem like a particularly productive use of the pardon power or does that raise eyebrows? >> it does raise eyebrows certainly. one thing i'm going to give trump credit for it is he said it during the campaign. so it is not like voters didn't know. is not like he was hiding it and all of a sudden he gets elected and he's going to do it. he made a part of his campaign and people liked it. at the end of the day the pardon power is political. how we assess presidents is politics and i think that he was overt about what he was

going to do. i don't think as a group that is in need of a pardon, most of the people convicted, it was very minor, it was trespass. the people that didn't engage in violence, those are minor offenses. those that did engage were more serious offenses but deservedly so. that was insurrection against the government and i think that is serious that those should stand, to send a message that anyone in the future shouldn't do that and he is sending a different message which is be loyal to me and i will have your back. >> this is my nyu colleague rachel barkow. good to see you out of the faculty lounge. her new book hits book stands in march of 2025. thank you, rachel. coming up next, the reality of post-role america is that republicans will not stop with state abortion bans. we will explain the alarming effort by republicans to push their abortion bans even beyond their own state borders. ate bo.

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the reality of post-role america is not just living with the dobbs decision which overturned the right to an abortion in america. it is not just living with all the states that have banned abortion within their own jurisdictions. it is a new reality, one in which the court that overturned row is still in power, one in which the antiabortion forces that for so long have worked to destroy row is not finished and

will not stop until abortion is banned everywhere for everyone. part of this reality is a growing effort among antiabortion lawmakers to push abortion bans beyond their own state lines. texas republican attorney general ken paxton last week filed a lawsuit against a new york doctor for providing abortion medication to a 20- year-old patient in texas. according to the civil suit, the woman who received the pills was hospitalized after experiencing complications. the suit marks one of the nation's first challenge is to shield laws, past and blue states after the supreme court overturned the right to an abortion in dobbs. shield laws offer legal protections for health care providers and blue states who prescribed abortion pills or perform abortions to patients living in states where the procedure is banned. at least eight states have shield laws in place now. david cohen, a law professor who helped craft new york's shield law tells npr that the lawsuit is unlikely to succeed since new york courts publicly

won't cooperate with texas. but there is a real concern that the case could ultimately wind up in federal court. where the outcome would be much harder to predict. following the dobbs ruling, the use of medication abortion has significantly increased and today, most abortions involve pills. advocates warn that lawsuits such as this one could have a chilling effect on telehealth at a time when increasing number of pregnant women are already being harmed by abortion bans. in texas alone, propublica reported that at least three women have died after being denied or having access delayed to abortion care. while conservatives insist dobbs is simply about returning abortion to the states for their own decisions, the recent tactics point to a broader strategy of trying to effectively ban abortion nationwide. if not overtly, through executive action that could revive the long dormant comsat act or through congressional

legislation, then little by little, with state laws and lawsuits like this one, which over time could amount to a de facto national ban. another case out of idaho, also provides a window into the strategy of pushing state abortion bans beyond state waters. there, the nations first of its kind abortion trafficking law went into effect following a ruling by the ninth circuit last week. the idaho law makes it a crime to harbor or transport a pregnant minor across state lines to obtain an abortion even if the procedure occurs in a state where abortion is legal. in its original form, the law also criminalized any adult providing counseling on reproductive health options to a pregnant minor. lourdes who works with victims of sexual violence along with advocacy groups challenged the law on first amendment grounds. they argued the law prevented

officials from offering counseling services to minors seeking abortions. the ninth circuit ruled that idaho could enforce the travel ban but it struck down the law counseling been holding the quote, encouragement counseling and emotional support are plainly protected speech under supreme court precedent including when offered in the difficult context of deciding whether to have an abortion. at least four other states have introduced bills to ban interstate abortion travel, and experts warn that idaho's law could serve as a blueprint for more. the constitutionality of these laws remains unclear, since the constitution protects the right to interstate travel and the ninth circuit did not address the aspect because the challenge was only on first amendment grounds. and while the supreme court historically has upheld the right to travel, and the post road era and with the incoming trump administration, it remains unclear whether courts will continue to recognize a woman's fundamental right to travel in this context. but the part of the ruling that

upheld the right to counseling was hailed as a victory by abortion rights advocates. an attorney for the plaintiff called it the first federal abortion case to recognize the right to freely discuss abortion. she says quote, idahoans should be concerned and upset about what the legislators are doing and what the law still does, absolutely. that they should be so relieved that they can still talk about and support abortion. others warn that the ruling will pave the way for more restrictions on interstate travel. writer jessica warns that it is only a matter of time before such travel bans are extended to all women, not just pregnant minors. as she says, young people are the canaries in the coal mine. what happens to them today, comes for us all tomorrow. tom.

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welcome back. before the break i told you about republican efforts to effectively extend abortion bans beyond their own state lines. joining me to discuss these efforts is michelle goodwin, professor of constitutional law and global health policy at georgetown university law center. shell is the author of policing the womb, decibel women and the criminalization of other had. also with us as marc heron, senior counsel at the center for a productive rights. thanks for joining us. mark, let me start with you. the attorney general ken paxton likely knows that new york courts will not support this lawsuit, challenging shield laws. what do you think is his real objective? >> i think that is right. this is exactly the kind of chaos that we predicted would happen if the united states supreme court overturned roe and this is exactly what is playing out because we know that antiabortion politicians are not going to be satisfied with just closing the clinics

and in their state. they won't stop until everyone, until abortion is banned for everyone nationwide. and in texas, the trigger laws have closed all the abortion clinics. so one of the only remaining avenues, the lifelines available for texans to access abortion, is through telemedicine, through telehealth. accessing abortion from providers and other states. apart from that, texans will have to travel hundreds or thousands of miles to leave their state and access abortion somewhere else. over half of the abortions provided in the united states are medication abortions, this is a critical way that patients are able to access care and it is why we saw, after the dobbs ruling, in fact the number of abortions in the united states increased, rather than decreased. so the point of this, is that

this is part of ken paxton mo. it is a scare campaign, it is intimidation to try to scare new york doctors, to scare texas patients and trapped them from being able to access the care that they need. >> some would argue these abortion travel bans, so-called trafficking laws are scare tag's. what is the likelihood that a case or a challenge to one of these laws might escalate to the supreme court and what might the court do in dealing with the constitutional right to travel in his concurrence to the dobbs majority opinion that cavanagh made a lot of the fact that the constitution recognizes the right to interstate travel. does that seem sacrosanct in the context of abortion care >> what we've seen is the isolation of reproductive health care, altogether from other areas of constitutional rights. we saw that in hobby lobby, where the court assigned religious liberties and

interests. so long as it means the abortion rights or reproductive rights being carved out in that case, as you recall, it that involved the court conflating iuds with abortifacients. they weren't, so that companies could claim a religious interest in making sure that their employees would not be able to access these contraceptives, through their insurance program. and the court said well in the instance, such as this, we will carve out reproductive health care from everything else and it is a great question because i think that there's so much unpredictable and the court actually is not consistent. and i don't think that even as justice kavanaugh said that there would be guardrails, protecting the right to travel vis-@-vis abortion rights, one can guarantee that would be the

case, if this matter were to make it to the supreme court. >> michelle brought up a big important point, regarding the courts consistency on certain issues. this ninth circuit case was a mixed decision where the ninth circuit upheld right of the law but also struck down one part on the ground that it violated the first amendment, the counseling provisions. the supreme court has upheld other kinds of counseling provisions, specifically script laws that require doctors to read specific language to abortion patients before they can have the procedure. is it possible that the idaho case could make its way to the court and that the counseling provision which was upheld in the ninth circuit could be opportunity for the court to reconsider its intersection of the first amendment and abortion care in the manner that michelle is suggesting, and abortion access list some -- exceptionalism for the first amendment. >> well even though the dobbs overruled the right to abortion, did not overrule the first amendment. and so, people have, and return

their first amendment rights to talk about abortion, to tell people where they can access abortion, to send people to websites online, where they can find information about abortion. we know that states are going to try, and they already are trying to restrict that ability. we have seen four states so far , that have introduced the next legislative session that would center any information or any ads about abortion services, that could be provided in other states. so it is very possible that those challenges, or those laws could be a test. in terms of the so-called informed consent laws, the biased counseling laws that require clinics to provide false information to their patients. those are laws that could be

continued to be challenged under state constitutions, the center for reproductive rights is challenging laws exactly like that in states like kansas. but the main point to remember is, we have our first amendment in this country and abortion exceptionalism is right, that the supreme court tends to you things about abortion differently. but people should not be afraid to exercise their first amendment right. >> michelle, who states like washington are taking steps to protect abortion access, governor j ansley find a lot barring state police from cooperating with out-of-state investigations. will those efforts be enough to protect health care providers long-term? are more robust federal protections necessary? will we get them with the incoming administration are there things the outgoing biden administration can do right now to shore up access quite -- access? >> those are great questions. it is important that the states and not blue states do what is

necessary to protect the civil liberties and civil rights of people in their communities. that includes people with a capacity for pregnancy. girls and women and so they are doing that, and in washington, new york. one can see what the effort in texas, as a means of challenging that. and that is really the blueprint that it playbook here. which is to do whatever is possible, and in order to restrict abortion rights nationwide. so it is an attempt to go after those particular states. but those states need to continue to fight. this is part of the agenda that is not just a states rights agenda. it really is about eradicating abortion rights, nationwide. but i think we should also keep in mind that it is not just that. this is also a pathway for restricting contraceptive access, too. what will become statewide and also become nationwide and it really is this testing of

fundamentally what it means to be a citizen for women and girls in the united states, and we can't lose sight of what it means as an attempt to fight against what democracy means for those individuals. this is an attack on democracy, not just the productive health rights and justice. >> michelle goodwin, going to give you the last word. thank you marc and michelle. coming up, on the next hour of velshi, we will hear from representative jasmine crockett from texas. will have lots to say about what is happening as the incoming administration comes into effect and the biden administration heads out. nimis d my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. cool right? look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti... he's melting! oh jeez... nooo... oh gaa...

only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that's why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i've ever seen. it's people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day.

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