well, kash patel is on the way in and christopher wray is on the way out. there should be a warning sign of what is to come in the fbi and beyond.

sheldon whitehouse is a member of the senate judiciary committee and he is coming up first. plus, tech billionaires align up to kiss the ring as they try to play catch-up elon musk. a congressman who represents silicon valley has unique insight into how these guys operate and he joins me live in just a few minutes. and later, is making polio great again really what we are doing now? rfk jr.'s top confidant who wants a petition to the fda to revoke approval of the polio vaccine. the new york times reporter who broke that story is standing by here in studio to talk about what she found. >> [ music ] okay, with the news this week that christopher wray lanced resign as fbi director, it felt like it was kind of worth revisiting a white wray was even in this job in the first place. the story starts in earnest in

july 2016 when the fbi under james comey opens its investigation into russian interference in the 2016 election. after trump won the election, call me and other election officials traveled to trump tower to brief them on their findings so far. that was actually the very first time call me ever even met trump. after that first meeting, trump clearly thought this was a guy he needed to keep close to him, is just three weeks later, comey says he was summoned to the white house for a one on one dinner with trumpet here is how you described that dinner in his book. trump said, i need loyalty, i expect loyalty." to my mind, the demand was like sammy the bull's cosa nostra induction ceremony, with trump in the role of the family boss, asking me if i have what it takes to be a main man. i did not and would never put i was determined not to give the president any hint of assent to this demand, so i give silence instead. and that moment described in detail in his book, and he also

testified to it at that dinner, was kind of the beginning of the end for james comey. because through the next several months, he would keep investigating, trump would keep pushing back, and eventually, trump fired him. trump also admitted why he fired him on live television. >> regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey, knowing there was no good time to do it. and in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story, it is an excuse by the democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. >> so basically, comey didn't pass trumps a loyalty test, he that left the cloud of the russia investigation, he did not put trump above the law, so trump fired him. sound familiar? so that of course it left an opening at the fbi which trump soon filled with christopher wray. at the time, he wrote about wray in a statement, " i know

that he will serve his country as a model of integrity." and wray did exactly that, which eventually led to his downfall. and so, here we are, christopher wray will resign at the end of the biden administration, a full three years before the end of his term. following in his footsteps is somewhat more interested in following the rule of law than the rule of trump, but this time it will be someone like wray filling his place. at this time, it will likely be kash patel, a q1 on supporting, election denying conspiracy theorists, whose mission is to dismantle the very agency he was chosen to lead, but yeah, he would definitely pass that, if it actually, the loyalty test. and this is of course not just limited to kash patel. this time, trump is assembling his cabinet piece by piece in a way that prioritizes loyalty over any basic qualification. i mean, in any other universe,

the people that he has picked for some of the highest ranking roles in our government wouldn't even be considered for far more inconsequential jobs in the agencies they have been selected to lead. unqualified doesn't even begin to describe how wrong these people are for these jobs. but for trump, unqualified isn't a bad thing. for trump, unqualified is kind of the point, because when you put someone in a role that they would never in 1 million years be considered for otherwise, you can see how that might engender a certain kind of devotion and loyalty. i mean, kash patel can either run the fbi for the next 10 years or you can write another follow-up to his children's series, the plot against the king, in which he is a wizard, and yes, trump is the king. rfk jr. can either steer our country's public health or you can be the french conspiracy theorist who does shower cameos in his wife's beauty product videos. either way, two different paths. pete hegseth can either be in charge of the department of defense or you can be back on a

morning show on fox on the weekends, occasionally letting an errant axe fly over its intended target on air. i know this is hard to do, but imagine for a moment that you are one of these people. imagine a president-elect plucking you from the right wing fringe and putting you in a job you have absolutely no business doing. what would you do for that person if asked? see, once again, once upon a time, trump asked james comey for his loyalty. he didn't get the answer he wanted, we know that. at this time, though, he is making absolutely sure that never happens again. joining me now is democratic senator sheldon whitehouse of rhode island, he sits on the judiciary committee and he has thought about these questions a whole lot. so, senator whitehouse, let me just start here, i kind of just made my own case for the dangers of the loyalty trump engenders. i know you have thought about this a lot, did you disagree with any part? what did i miss in my overview there? >> well, i would start with the

question that chris ray must be asking, which is where is the gratitude? he provided complete cover for a fake investigation by the fbi of brett kavanaugh's sexual escapades, and now all he gets -- now all he gets is ushered out the door. one thing to be looking for, i think, in the future, is trying to figure out what sticks i might have been offered to christopher wray to get him to violate the term of office that he accepted when he signed up, which has a real purpose of its own. it is intended to separate the tenure of an fbi director from the political cycle of presidential elections, and he has deliberately dumped it right back into that cycle, so,

i think there's probably a fair amount going on behind the scenes here that we need to get taking away accurate >> senator, he has a 10 year term, there are three years left, i know you have expressed dismay and you just it again about him stepping back from that. what kind of carrots and you think there could be or what kind of questions are you looking for more information on in that regard? >> it's hard to tell, but if you take a look at what has happened to my colleague, a very good person, joni ernst, when she stood up and suggested that she might oppose trumps secretary of defense nominee, she has been subject to what i call the flying , the far right internet attack meme coming after her, she has been subjected to threats to fund a primary against her. she has really been battered as much as they possibly can to

try to get her back in line, so the notion that they don't use sticks to try to clear people out of the way for nominees if they want, we are through that, and you know, we will see where chris wray lands, how big his clients are, how much is pay packages, all that kind of stuff, there could be some pretty significant carrots they are to have encouraged him to abandon his term for trump. >> it sounds like you are saying that christopher wray, right, there might be incentives for him, in your view, on the other side of this, hence him stepping back as he did not wait for trump to get him fired, which is quite a significant thing to be watching and a significant thing for someone like yourself to say. let me ask you about other piece of that that you touched on, which is what happens to senator joni ernst, and what surprises me a bit, it might not surprise you, but it has been quite quiet publicly around kash patel and his nomination. i thought that this was a nomination that there would be more opposition, including

especially from republicans, given his conspiracy laden history. is that accurate? is there anything happening behind the scenes in terms of opposition or is your suspicion that he is going to get confirmed to a 10 year term? >> well, we saw with respect to matt gaetz, who was perhaps the most spectacularly unqualified of all of these unqualified nominees, nominated to lead the agency that does criminal investigations, with his only experience of criminal investigations and being the subject of them, and what we have discovered is that a lot of the pushback that convinced him to withdraw or the tricksters to ask him to withdraw, came quietly, and i think that is because people don't want to put their heads above the power pet the way joni ernst did and get the kind of treatment that she has been getting, so there is every reason to believe that there is

actually a lot of quiet concerned about kash patel. the two obvious things are you really don't want an fbi director who wants to use that position to try to direct, intimidate, and control the american media, and you really don't want one who comes in with an enemies list of his own that he wants to pursue without justification. we don't have to guess this about kash patel, he has said both of those things, we know what is enemies list looks like and who is on it, so there have got to be a lot of republicans looking at this and saying do i really want to own this guy for the next four years by voting for him? >> and it sounds like -- i wonder if you think the hearings might be a moment where we might see more -- either a building of quiet opposition or even public opposition at some point to kash patel at that point in january. >> yeah, i think the hearings provide a moment where concern about somebody like patel can be catalyzed, and power up the

back channel signals to the white house, you can't make us vote for this guy, he is just too much of a menace, and he endangers me. i am up in two years, you know, they could say. and everything that he does in two years is a prospective ad against me because i voted for him, knowing all this stuff, so please get me off the hook here. but i think the way patel handles the hearing will help signal which way the republican quiet campaign leads. >> yeah, the quiet campaign has been very interesting to me from the beginning, but we will have to wait maybe for more in january but i wanted to ask you about something, one of your other colleagues, senator mitt romney said this morning on cnn, he was asked if he was concerned about trumps threats of retribution, here is part of his exchange. >> are you worried at all about being a target for retribution, you or members of your family?

>> no, actually, i have been particularly clean throughout my life, i'm not particularly worried about criminal investigations, and i don't know how much of what the president says is hyperbole, because there was a lot of this person ought to be jailed and that person ought to be jailed that was said during the last two campaigns, but i think president trump is likely to try and focus on the future. >> senator romney has also spoken out when he has had concerns, more than many republican senators have, but i just wanted to know what you thought about this notion that what trump is saying is hyperbole, because there's this question i think a lot of people watching have, is this real, should we prepare for it to be real, how are you thinking about it? >> well, i do think there is an element of hyperbole and bluster, trump is known for both of those things, but that doesn't mean he won't act on his hyperbole and bluster. and you know, mitt romney is a wealthy, powerful, experienced,

talented public figure with enormous resources to fight back . i think the real danger is more to people who don't have all of those resources, like for instance those two coworkers who were so picked on by rudy giuliani that they have now turned him broke by getting a massive judgment against him. there was a point where just the threat of having them come after you can completely upend a person's life, and i think that's where the danger is. the danger is less for the mitt romney's of the world, and more for people who don't have those kind of resources to push back when the attack comes. >> it is is such an important point. we are talking about tens of thousands, if not more dollars in legal fees that people would need. thank you for making that point. senator sheldon whitehouse, i can't wait to see you in these hearings.

you're going to have kash patel before you, pam bondi, i hope you will come back and talk to us about it. i really appreciate you joining us. coming up, we actually know how kash patel could have used his power at the fbi because we have seen it happen before. tim weiner is a pulitzer prize- winning journalist and a leading expert and he joins me after a very quick break point t oh! right in the temporal lobe! beat it, punks! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ what causes a curve down there? who can treat this? stop typing, and start talking. it could be a medical condition called peyronie's disease, or pd. you're not alone, there is hope. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose and treat pd. visit makeapdplan.com today.

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we already know kash patel is an election denying, qanon subscribing, conspiracy theorist with a political axe to grind, but his nomination also shines a light on the power of the fbi and the risk of abuse if that power is in the wrong hands. we know that because we have seen it before. under former fbi director j edgar, engaging in illicit surges, seizures, wiretaps, break-ins, and even carrying out illegal arrests. of course, the bureau has seen

some reform since the hoover era, thank goodness, but it still doesn't take much imagination to know what kash patel could do if he is confirmed as director. that's why his nomination is so alarming to be like john bolton, transformer national security advisor. in a wall street journal op-ed this week, bolton actually compared patel to the head of the soviet secret police under joseph stalin, a guy who imprisoned 1 million political opponents on false or exaggerated charges. bolton writes, "patel's conduct in mr. trump's first term and thereafter indicates that as fbi director, he would operate according to laurenti burrell is reported commitment to joseph stalin could show me the man and i will show you the crime." that is pretty chilling, i would have to say, for someone who is kash patel's boss, and yet, not a single republican senator has raised any significant public concern about patel's nomination. now, maybe that will come in

the hearings, maybe it will be quiet, but it is still an eye- opener with discussing. as the new york times put it this week, patel appears at least for now to be on a glide path for nomination, we will see. but joining me now is tim weiner, a pulitzer prize- winning journalist and leading expert on the fbi, as well as the cia, and he is the award- winning author of two best- selling books on those agencies. tim, perfect christmas gifts for people who are looking to better understand some very important agencies in the next years to come. i wanted to ask you, you said in an interview last month that kash patel would make the fbi an instrument of political repression, which is quite a description, but you know a lot about this agency, to explain to us, what does that mean in practice? text for 25 years, until his death in 1972, j edgar hoover turned the fbi into an instrument of political warfare against the american left and the press, and even wound up bugging numbers of richard nixon's national security council as threats to nixon.

he used wiretapping, bugging, break-ins, and political dirty tricks to destroy people. just the threat of an fbi investigation can really undo a person's life. now, you could say kash patel might be j edgar hoover minus 30 or 40 iq points, but the power of the bureau in his hands is immense and his elevation to director of fbi, along with trumps other pics for national security poses, represents a disastrous rise of misplaced hour. >> so, one of the things that you have written about and is true since that era, is that there have been some reforms, but there are still tools at the fbi director's disposal. talk to us about what some of

those tools are. what are you watching for in terms of what could be done under kash patel that could impact everyday americans. >> i would anticipate a direct attack on journalists and their sources. i would expect kash patel to do what he was ordered to do by donald trump four years ago in 2020, is to use his investigative powers to ransack the intelligence files of this country for information that could somehow magically absorb donald trump of the connections he and his campaign had to russian spies during the 2016 election, and to use the power of investigation as a tool of intimidation and ultimately, political repression. >> one of the challenges the

bureau -- and i know you have talked about this, too, and other law enforcement agencies and institutions are facing is for so many years, trump and the people around him have attacked and delegitimized them, right? and there have been some statements from republican senators that have suggested that what kash patel is representing is exactly what they want, they want sort of a complete, you know, the rating of the businesses -- business as usual in the fbi. are you surprised that so many senate republicans seem eager to support him, or is that even surprising to you at this point? >> trump owns them. he owns what we used to call the republican party, it is his now. the democrats have no leadership, they have no power, and they have no answers to what trump now proposes to do. kash patel has specifically said that he would assign everybody at the fbi to just do crimes and not national security investigations.

for all its history, 100 years, the fbi has been, yes, a law enforcement agency, but also an intelligence agency. it goes after spies, foreign spies, and there are american agents who threatened to undermine this country. kash patel just wants everybody at the fbi to do maybe some white-collar crimes, but you cannot imagine the combined power of the fbi and the cia under donald trump's control to do damage to the national security of the united states. i would add that over the past 15 years since hoover died, the fbi has investigated presidents, they investigated nixon for watergate, they investigated ronald reagan for the iran, they investigated bill clinton for sexual relations, and famously, they

investigated donald trump for his campaign ties to russian spies. i will bet you anyways are you care to make that the fbi will not be investigating the president of the united states for the next four years. >> i am not going to take the other side of that wager. i mean, some people might, but -- tim, few people know more about the power of these agencies, it is so important for people to understand, i really appreciate you joining us, thank you so much for your time. coming up, tech billionaires are lining up to kiss the ring ahead of donald trump's inauguration, they are bringing their checkbooks. rochon represents the heart of silicon valley, he is standing by and he joins me next. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems. serious allergic reactions may occur. get help for swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens or you have a parasitic infection. headache and sore throat may occur.

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okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪) so this week, tech billionaires started lining up to pay tribute to donald trump. on wednesday, mark zuckerberg donated $1 million to trump's inaugural committee. a day later, jeff bezos and open i -- a.i. owner each donated 1 million

bucks of their own. and jeff bezos is expected to head down to mar-a-lago next week. for some of these guys, they are just playing catch-up to elon musk who spent over $250 million to get trump elected in the first place, and these other tech giants have no doubt been watching as the bet has paid off for musk. they have been watching as trump and elon musk have basically if refused to separate since election day. every time trump goes somewhere, it is kind of like the where is elon version of where is waldo? what is going on in this photo, i can't even totally figure it out, it is definitely strange. these other billionaires have also probably watched as the shares of tesla soared by 70% since election day, and they watched trump top musk to serve as cochair of the newly formed department of government efficiency, or doge if you want to call it that.

and as some of these companies were promised billions in government contracts, having a role like that might be a conflict of interest, i suspect, but for some reason, his competitors are giving him the benefit of the doubt. >> i believe pretty strong that elon will do the right thing and that americans -- it is profoundly un-american to use political power to the degree that elon has it, to hurt your competitors and your own businesses, and i don't think people would tolerate that, i don't think elon would do it. >> i take at face value what has been said, which is that he is not going to use his political power to advantage his own companies or to disadvantage his competitors. i think that at face value. >> i mean, either they are completely naove, which seems hard to believe, or they are interested in playing the same game, or there is some other explanation. either way, count me as

slightly more skeptical than those two. on a related note, reuters is reporting that the trump transition team has proposed eliminating a requirement for car crashes, one that requires automakers to report crashes involving vehicles with automated driving systems, which makes sense. reuters reports that removing the car disclosure position would particularly benefit tesla, each has reported most of the crashes, more than 1500, to federal safety regulators under the program. i mean, maybe it is just a coincidence. joining me now is a friend of congressman ro khanna, his district is located in the heart of silicon valley, he always speaks his mind. it is great to see you. i want to just ask you, i mean, you know these guys pretty well, you know the industry quite well, you always speak your mind, what do you make of the courting of trump by these tech billionaires? is this billion -- business as usual or is this something different? exit is not surprising, some of them had courted him even in

the first term, i remember tim cook flying to meet with him in 2017. the reality is that they are concerned about the trump power he is going to wield on tariffs, they are concerned about a.i. regulation, they are concerned about issues of who is going to decide procurement processes, obviously, i want transparency and i don't like that we are losing part of silicon valley, but that is what is motivating them. >> all right, let me ask you a different type of question about this, as we are all trying to understand it. you have known elon musk for a long time, what do you think of the assessment from jeff bezos and sam altman that he won't use his political power to advantage his own companies or to disadvantage his competitors? >> look, i have said that there should be financial disclosures and he should recuse himself where there is a conflict of interest. i don't think it really matters what someone's motive is, numbers of congress, most of

us, and with pure motives, but we still have to have financial disclosures, we still have to do with conflicts of interest, and that's because those guardrails are there for a reason, but i have said also that the democrats shouldn't just reflexively say we are not going to work with doge on anything. instead, we should focus his efforts on places where there actually is way is, like the department of defense, which is 56% of the budget, and it was president obama who helped to create spacex. elon disrupted boeing, so, if he wants to help disrupt the pentagon and save money, that is a good thing. >> i want to ask you about doge, and there have been efforts to make the government more efficient, what i'm curious about, we do know that elon musk gave $250 million in a range of ways to trump's campaign. there was just a rollback according to reuters of the requirement to report car crashes by automated vehicles.

i mean, maybe it is a coincidence, but i think the question i have is what concern you have about how his proximity could be used for his business advantage, do you have no concern that could happen? >> that's why there needs to be transparency. obviously, there should be financial disclosure, and that's why there should be vigilance from congress to make sure he is not going after the consumer financial protection bureau, not going after medicare, not going after medicaid, not going after social security, not trying to deregulate in an industry. it's the first time i am hearing about this car regulation, but it sounds like a common sense regulation and i support it being there in terms of reporting requirements of crashes of autonomous vehicles, so if there are efforts like that, then congress needs to speak up and we need to hold that to account. but there also needs to be an effort for democrats to say we are for spending money on people who are not for wasting

it, and i don't think that is very controversial to say we want to direct the efforts and looking where there's actually waste and we can make government better. >> look, i agree, i think cutting waste and making these more efficient is a good thing. i think one of the challenges, you know and you have pointed this out, is that there kind of two big pots to cut, right? there's the defense budget, which has a lot of money in it. trump at one point expressed an openness to that during the first term, then backed off from it, and then there are entitlement cuts, which i know you are against. so, i think the question is like if trump opposes entitlement cuts, which he has said, we will see, if he is not going to cut the defense department or defense budget, how does elon musk get to this $2 trillion in savings? >> well, i'm not sure if it is $2 trillion over one year or 10 years. one year, it is the most impossible. 10 years, i think you have had -- got to have cuts in defense. so, the 56% of discretionary

budget is defense, and those are being dominated by five primes. there is the f-35s that have had almost a $230 billion overrun because lockheed has a sole-source contract, no competition. when i was in japan, our ambassador said we can't even produce the weapons we are promising because of the monopolization. same thing happened with ukraine, our defense department was unable to produce in time the weapons, so if we could have reform of defense, that is great, but there is a larger point here, and i have my criticisms of elon musk in terms of transparency, but here's the truth, the average american, taking someone who puts rockets up into space, that is a pretty cool thing, and the democratic party has to get back to being a party that celebrates a building entrepreneurship, innovation, while at the same time holding people to account. obama had that, clinton had that. i don't think we should be a party that isn't for building

the future. >> no question, innovation is good. cutting waste is good. i think that there is some understandable skepticism about elon musk's role, but the effort to do that is certainly one that there should be some openness to, what we are watching and questioning, too. congressman ro khanna, thank you so much for joining me. coming up, donald trump says he is going to be listening to bobby when it comes to public health and vaccinations, but who is bobby listening to? i have learned a lot about that this weekend i will tell you about it, coming up next. >> [ music ] >> [ music ] lete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people—whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure.

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here's the story, you can work on food, you can work on anything you want. he wants help, he wants women's health, he wants men's health, he wants everything. i am going to let him go wild on health, i'm going to let him go wild on the food, i am going to let him go wild on medicines. >> i am going to let him go wild on medicines. this week, robert f kennedy junior will head to capitol hill

where he will meet with senators about his nomination to lead the department of health and human services, and right now, rfk's a long history of conspiracy driven science crackpot medical theories is understandably getting some attention. now, at the top of the list is his anti-vaccine activism. i mean, just think back to four years ago during the covid pandemic, the height of it, kennedy was a leader in spreading this information, urging people not to get vaccinated, making baseless and frankly unhinged statements like saying that the covid vaccine was the deadliest vaccine ever made. of course there have been multiple studies that found that hundreds of thousands of americans could have lived if they had chosen to be vaccinated against the virus. could have lived if they had not been scared off by the conspiracies coming out of a number of people online, including rfk jr. and yet, just four years later, donald trump has picked him to steer the

nation's health system. donald trump has also somewhat alarmingly started to let some of kennedy's thinking seep into his own. since winning the election, trump has even openly flirted with the debunk theory that vaccines cause autism. >> do you want to see childhood vaccines eliminated? >> if they are dangerous for the children. >> studies show there is no link between vaccines and autism, and yet, it sounds like you are open to the possibility of him getting rid of them? >> i think somebody has to find out. i mean, something is going on. >> i mean, something is going on. no, actually, it is not. but trump keeps saying it, and again raised that debunk theory in an interview with time magazine just a few days later. in that interview, he also said this, "i'm going to be listening to bobby. he does not disagree with vaccinations, all vaccinations, he disagrees probably with some.

we are going to do what is good for the country." so, i guess my question is, what does listening to bobby it look like when push comes to shove? and while trump is listening to bobby, who is bobby going to be listening to? current reports from politico among others, kennedy is being advised by multiple vaccine activists, including [ inaudible ], and the founder of one of the largest anti-vax organizations . there is also a guy named aaron siri who served as kennedy's personal lawyer for the last two years. the new york times is reporting that kennedy is interested in making him the top lawyer at hhs, that would be a pay cut for siri who has done millions of dollars in legal work for anti-vax organizations, like in 2022 when he petitioned the government on behalf of the company to revoke approval of the polio vaccine. you heard that right, the polio vaccine, which by the way has protected millions of people for decades.

and virtually eliminated a virus here in the united states that can cause paralysis and death. now, that has understandably drawn widespread condemnation across party lines. republican senator mitch mcconnell, who is a polio survivor himself, issued a statement responding to that story. it reads in part, "the polio vaccine has saved millions of lives and held out the promise of eradicating a terrible disease. efforts to undermine public confidence in proven cures are not just uninformed, they are dangerous. anyone seeking the senate's consent to serve in the incoming administration would do well to steer clear of even the appearance of association with such efforts." well, let's be clear, when it comes to rfk jr., this isn't the appearance of association, this is a clear association with some of the most influential and radical figures and anti-vaccine movement. so, again, trump says he is

going to be listening to bobby and bobby is going to be listening to people like aaron siri. i just don't know that we fully grasp what that could mean. at the new york times reporter who broke that story about aaron siri and the polio vaccine joins me next. vaccine joins me next. tle plann. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses let's take a look at those scenarios. j.p. morgan wealth management has advisors in chase branches and tools, like wealth plan to keep you on track. when you're planning for it all... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today.

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many remedies you take for chest congestion only mask the symptoms. you're gonna love this property. try this. mucinex 12 hour treats the mucus that causes chest congestion for all-day relief. ahhh! mucinex in, mucus out! treat the cause. the new york times reported this week that one of rfk jr.'s

top allies once petitioned regulators to in -- revoke the polio vaccine, but that wasn't the only vaccine he targeted. according to the times, aaron siri is also petitioning the fda to cause distribution of 13 other vaccines, including combination products that cover tetanus and hepatitis a. 20 now is one of the new york times reporters who broke that story. i have known you a long time, there are a few people who know more about the healthcare industry, policymaking, all of this than you, so thank you for your expertise in this moment we are all trying to learn. let me start here, a lot of people haven't focused on rfk jr. nomination and what it means and what it is and these characters behind him. tell us a little bit more about aaron siri, who is this person and what does he mean and rfk jr. world? >> so, aaron siri is a lawyer in new york, he handles vaccine -related cases, he has long represented clients who say they are injured by vaccines.

i first encountered him last year when i wrote a story about a lawsuit in mississippi that revoked the religious -- or restored rather the religious exemption for vaccinations, so they were trying to basically make it easier for parents to opt out of childhood vaccination. and they won. and it turns out that aaron siri is also, as you mentioned, the lead lawyer for the informed consent action network, that is a group, you would call it anti- vaccine, they would call it vaccine safety or medical freedom, but they are clearly, you know, targeting vaccines and the fda and the cdc. aaron siri is their lawyer, he has filed all kinds of petitions, freedom of information act requests, lawsuits, in fact, the mississippi lawsuit was filed on behalf of of i can, and they are ran by victory, kennedy's communications director on the campaign, so they are kind of

this triumvirate, if you will, a troika of call them what you want, vaccine skeptics, anti- vaxxers, vaccine resistors. >> and they could end up, we will see, as part of an rfk jr. team, which is very different from being on a campaign -- >> well, they already are part of the rfk jr. team. but right now, as kennedy is interviewing candidates for hhs positions, should he get confirmed, siri is by his side, taking the lead in questioning, he is advising him all the way through, he has been down there in west palm beach with kennedy, and kennedy has told people privately that he would like aaron siri to be his general counsel at hhs. my bet is that doesn't happen. aaron siri is a very successful lawyer, he probably doesn't want to give up his legal practice, but it doesn't mean that he couldn't continue to advise kennedy as some kind of,

you know, special employee or even from an outside capacity. >> so, one of the fears, i think that is understandable, there are many fears out there, is that if these vaccines are no longer approved, if they are no longer covered by insurance companies, or becomes a divide in society in some ways, right? poor people won't be able to get access to them, there are many more issues than that because the fear is that there becomes an epidemic in society. >> there are many layers of fears. i guess my question, which i think a lot of people are wondering out there, is how do they do this? they are in government, rfk jr. is the secretary, he has these people advising him, what are you watching for in terms of actions that could lead to these vaccines leading to an epidemic, people not having access? so, you can't do it with the wave of a wand. i mean, it would be a long process, but the process begins

with a petition, which is what siri has filed with the fda, seeking that the fda withdraw approval of the polio vaccine, and he has a very specific grounds. he says until such time as a placebo-controlled, randomized, clinical trial can be done, and that is science jargon for sort of the gold standard for scientific research in which a vaccine is compared against a placebo, and double-blind, nobody knows who gets what. that is the way vaccines were tested, that is the way the vaccine was tested in the 1950s. over his objections, because he didn't want to withhold the vaccine from anybody, he thought kids deserved the vaccine that he knew was life- saving, but it was tested against placebo and it was approved. once you have a new vaccine, it would be unethical to withhold a life-saving shot from an infant, so you don't test a new vaccine against placebo. you tested against the old vaccine.

>> cheryl, we are so grateful for your expertise. i mean, rfk jr. is on the hill this week, there are going to be likely hearings in january, i hope you will come back and talk to us more about it as we are all trying to understand how this works and we will all be watching her additional reporting. thank you so much for joining me. i have got one more thing to tell you about, it is a good, fun thing. we're back after a very quick break. a very quick break. it's the first iphone built for apple intelligence. that's like peanut butter on jelly...on gold. get four iphone 16 pro on us, plus four lines for $25 bucks. and save on every plan versus the other big guys. what a deal. that's a lot if you ask me. ya'll giving away too fast t-mobile, slow down. the freestyle libre 3 plus sensor tracks your glucose in real time, and over time it can help lower your a1c. ♪♪

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okay, we love love around here and we love babies around here. and we have some exciting news to begin the week. we have a new member of our family. director josh haskins and his wife katie welcomed a new baby girl this week. her name is eddie and she is beautiful as you can see there. we hope the family has a wonderful holiday together this holiday season. that's all their kids. that does it for me today. we'll see you back here tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. for now, stay right where you are because there's a lot more news coming up for you. on this new hour, he loves to win but many of his picks have losing record and that may all by design. >> we'll talk to a whistle blower about the reaction that followed the murder of the ceo of united health care. >> and a talk with the film makers behind a new