by sister's life. i'm not interested in remembering karen associated with that crime. it's been a long ordeal for you? mmm hmm. i want to remember karen as a brilliant beautiful young woman she was. interviewer: maybe the smiling person, someone who loved her friends, loved the beach, and died too young. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. [theme music playing] ♪ this sunday, departing. fbi director, chris ray, announces he will resign next month, clearing a path for

president-elect donald trump's pick, kash patel, for leaving the fbi. >> i'll be ready to go on day one. >> it's time for a fresh start. >> i have concerns just because of his agenda that he expressed in the past. >> will the senate confirm this trump loyalist? plus, pardon power. as president biden prepares to exit the stage, his decision to pardon his son is sparking backlash from democrats and former white house. >> i do not agree with the way it was done. i don't agree with the timing. and i don't agree with the attack on the judicial system. >> my guest this morning, republican senator, lindsey graham of south carolina, and independent senator, bernie sanders of vermont. and new hope. after the fall of syrian president, there's renewed optimism in the search for american journalist, austin tice, who went missing in syria

over a decade ago. >> do you think he's alive? >> i'll talk to austin's mother, debra tice. joining me for insight and analysis, ryan nobles, anna, coanchor of pbs news hour. and etienne, and wall street journal columnist. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." from nbc news in washington, this is meet the press with kristen welker. >> the all out push is intensifying. from high stakes meeting on capitol hill to public outings with mr. trump himself. on saturday, the president- elect appeared in a suite at the army-navy football game with his choice to be defense secretary, former fox news host

and veteran, pete hegseth, and his pick to be the national intelligence director, tulsi gabbard, and challenged to explain past statements about women in combat. after meeting for a second time with iowa senator, joni, the first female combat veteran to serve in the senate, hegseth praised female troops. >> i want an opportunity here to clarify comments that have been misconstrued that i somehow don't support women in the military. some of our greatest warriors, our best warriors out there are women who serve, raise their right hand to defend this country and love our nation. >> now, it comes as some republican senators say they are facing blowback after raising questions about president-elect trump's picks. >> do you feel like there's a pressure campaign against people who throw out concerns?

>> i do. i think that's a two-edged sword. >> everybody tow the line. everybody line up, we got you here, and if you want to survive, you better be good. don't get on santa's naughty list here, because we will primary you. we are seeing that play out in real time right now with the nominees. my friend, joni ernst, one of the most conservative leaders in the senate right now, is being hung out to dry for not being good enough. >> also this week, president biden issued a flurry of pardons and come comutations. pardoning 39 others. the biggest single day act of clemency. it comes two weeks after the president pardoned his son, hunter biden. criticized the timing and

justification of the hunter biden pardon. >> i absolutely agree with the president's decision here. i do not agree with the way it was done. i do not agree with the timing. and i don't agree with the attack on the judicial system. >> also making waves this week, fbi director, christopher ray, told employees he will step aside before mr. trump took office with three years left. bowing to the reality that the president-elect had publicly declared his desire to replace him. >> in my view, this is the best way to avoid dragging the bureau deeper into the fray while reenforcing the values and principles that are so important in how we do our work. >> kash patel, who president- elect picked to replace him, has called for the agency's headquarters to be dismantelled. >> the fbi's footprint has gotten so big.

the biggest problem the fbi had has come out of the intell shops. i would shut down the fbi hoover building. on day one, and reopening the next day, as a museum of the deep state. >> patel names roughly 60 people in his book as being part of the quote, deep state. i asked president-elect trump about that list in our one on one interview last week. >> do you want kash patel to launch investigations into people on that list? >> no, he will do what he thinks is right. >> do you think that's right, sir? >> if they think that somebody was dishonest or crooked or corrupt politician, i think he has an obligation to do it. >> are you going to direct him to do it? >> no the at all. >> joining me now is lindsey graham of south carolina. senator graham, welcome back to meet the press. >> thank you. >> thank you so much for being here. i want to start overseas in

syria. i know that you have been quite focused on the conflict there. the fact that president bashar alasad, creating a power vacuum. you expressed concerns that there could be a resurgence of isis in syria. president-elect trump said the u.s. should not get involved in syria. is that the right approach, senator? >> well, leave it up to the syrians to form their new government, what kind of country they want to be to a point. we have an interest in preventing isis from coming back on the battlefield. they reigned terror in america, all over europe, slaughtering people. isis fighters are killing machines. they want to purify islam. they want to take down the king of jordan, they want to replace the ua with a theocracy. they want to drive us out of

the mideast and they want to destroy our friends in israel. 50,000 isis fighters under the control of kurdish allies in north eastern syria. it's in our national security interest they do not break out of jail and reestablish their califate. it's in our national interest, we lost four soldiers, i do not want isis to break out of jail. turkey is putting pressure on the kurds in north eastern syria. we need to demilitarized zone. turkey has concerns about some of these kurdish almosts. if they break out of jail, it's a nightmare for us, it's a nightmare for syria. it's a nightmare for the world. that cannot happen. >> all right. senator, i know you'll continue to track that situation closely and whoever becomes the next defense secretary will inherit

the crisis in syria as well as a range of other crisis on the world stage. you said last week that some of the allegations against pete hegseth, president-elect trump's pick to become the next defense secretary are disturbing. are you prepared to vote yes on pete hegseth and do you think he has enough support to get confirmed in >> i'm in a good place with pete unless something i don't know about comes out. these allegations are disturbing, but they are anonymous. were you trump in a bar and get up and said, let's kill all the muslims. there's one allegation opposed a police report about sexual assault. that person has the right to come forward. mismanagement of money, about, you know, having a drinking problem and saying inappropriate things. all of these are anonymous allegations. he has given me his side of the story. it makes sense to me. i believe him.

unless someone is willing to come forward, he will get through. five people accused judge kavanaugh of misconduct. they were not credible. we will not let that happen to pete. you aren't going to destroy his nomination based on anonymous sourcesment people have to come forward and make credible allegations. we'll see if they do. >> what pete hegseth did see in a nondisclosure agreement, accused him of sexual misconduct. should that type of information be released? >> yeah, he said -- yeah. he told me he would release her from that agreement. i mean, just think about what we're talking about. i would want to know if anybody nominated for a high level job in washington legitimately assaulted somebody. i have known pete for years. i met him in afghanistan. i heard nothing but good things about his service over there. he's a friend. the pete hegseth i know, this is not a problem i've been

aware of. however, if people have an allegation to make, come forward and make it. like they did in kavanaugh. we'll decide whether or not it's credible. right now, he's been tried by anonymous sources that will not stand. >> senator, how do you respond to your republican colleagues? you heard lisa murkowski there at the top, tom tillis, saying it feels like there's a pressure campaign against them to get on board with president- elect trump's picks. >> yeah. that's true of everything we do up here. you have a right to petition your government. i get pressured all the time to do this or do that. i'm pretty consistent. i vote for almost every nominee. i think i voted against one or two presidential cabinet picks since i've been up here, because i believe every president deserves a right to pick their cabinet. the people have to be qualified. they have to have good character. those things are all part of the process, but my predisposition is, to support

presidential nominations, just not for republicans, but for democrats. so at the end of the day, people will push you to do things up here. it's up to you to resist. i feel very comfortable in the way i do my job. you can have your say with me and i will listen. but i will do what i think is best for the country. that's have a process that works. >> let me ask you about the fbi. picked kash patel to lead the fbi. christopher ray did announce he is resigning three years before his term ends. here is what you said on this program the last time donald trump was choosing an fbi director. look. >> he has a duty and obligation to pick somebody beyond reproach, outside the political lane. i think he'll do that. i hope he'll do that. i would encourage the president to pick somebody we can all rally around, including those who work in the fbi. >> is kash patel beyond reproach and someone everyone can rally around?

>> i think you're talking about what he should do the last time -- look what's happened since the last time. the fbi and the conservatives have become a very biased organization. the hunter laptop was real. right before the election of 2020, the intelligence community, including the fbi suppressed that story. cross fire hurricane was a joke. was a political effort to take trump down using false information generated by somebody connected to russia. the steel docier was a lie. so, the fbi we talked about then has changed. so what i want an fbi director now? someone that can clean it up, get back to the job of fighting crime. don't have your thumb on the political scale. make sure it's not used as a political weapon against people that you have a beef with. we don't want to go back to the

days of jay edgar hoover. have an fbi that will call balls and strikes and it will take somebody to clean out the place. >> well, you know, i guess what i'm asking about is, bipartisan support. christopher ray was confirmed by a vote of 92-5. are you concerned about president-elect trump putting forward someone who might not have that type of bipartisan support? >> i can't stress to you enough that when i was a young person, i wanted to be an fbi agent. i would watch it every sunday. it was a great show. i admire the fbi. it's way off track. they used it to get warrants against american citizens that was fabricated. they accused president trump of being a russian agent when there was no credible evidence to suggest otherwise. they have come after people on the pro life community. they suppressed information that would have been relevant to 2020. the laptop was real.

they said it was false. 50 intell people signed a letter saying that laptop was russian disinformation. none of us trust these people anymore. >> senator, a little bit of a lightning round. we have two more questions. president-elect told me he thinks the members of the january 6th committee should go to jail. do you agree with that statement? >> no. >> okay. that was very clear and concise. let's move on. i want to ask -- >> you said lightning. >> i appreciate that. i want to ask you about dreamers. he wants to work with democrats on a deal to protect dreamers. do you believe dreamers will have a path to legal status by the end of president-elect trump's second term? >> only if we clean up the border. i was on the bill doing comprehensive immigration. but what's happened under president biden, you allowed 13 million people come in here

legally. until we deport people here, why would you legalize -- if you legalize one person now, there would be a run on the border. there will be no legalization. there will be no dreamer bill until we lock our border down. the number one job for the budget committee and the united states senate is to pass a border security bill on day one. i want to cut taxes, but that comes later. to our friends in the house, we're playing russian roulette with our national security. terrorists are all over the place. 250 people died of fentanyl poisoning. what we'll do is come up with a border bill supported by steven miller and president trump to lock down the border, create agents to deport people, so they don't have to be released and finish the wall. that's what we're going to do. if we don't do that first, it's national security malpractice. secure the border first, any legalization has to come after you secure your border. >> all right, well you got it all in, senator graham, thank you very much.

i really appreciate it. >> merry christmas. >> merry christmas to you. thanks for doing the lightning round with me. when we come back, senator bernie sanders joins me next.

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welcome back and joining me now is independent senator, bernie sanders of vermont. senator sanders, welcome back to meet the press. >> great to be with you. >> let's start off by talking about the decision of christopher ray to announce his resignation three years before the end of his term. do you think that was the right decision, senator? >> well, i'm a little bit nervous about it. when trump talks about sending to jail people who are on the january 6th committee, that sounds like being a dictator. so i would hope that we have an fbi and a justice department

that protects the civil liberties of the american people and does its best to protect the american democracy. >> well, we know the white house is considering potential preemptive pardons of those who clashed with president-elect trump. in light of what the president- elect said to me, that yes, he does think members of the january 6th committee should go to jail. do you think mr. biden should issue preemptive pardons for the entire january 6th committee? >> well, i think he might want to consider that very seriously. that's an outrageous statement. this is what authoritarianism is what about. you do not arrest elected officials who disagree with you. who undertake an investigation. so all of us. and i would tell you, kristen, there are a lot of republicans. you just heard lindsey graham make that statement. that idea of trump will not go

very far. it's quite outrageous. >> it was notable to hear senator lindsey graham say no, point-blank, when i asked if they should go to jail. let me ask you about president biden's pardon of his son, hunter. former biden senior adviser, anita dunn, said she disagrees with the decision, she disagrees with how it was carried out. i want to remind you with what we heard from president biden earlier this year. >> will you accept the jury's outcome? their verdict no matter what it is? >> yes. >> have you ruled out a pardon for you son? >> yes. >> i will abide by the jury's decision, and i will not pardon him. >> senator, was it the right decision for the country to pardon hunter biden? >> well, i think two things. when you have his opponents going after his family, as a father, as a parent, we can all understand biden trying to protect his son and his family.

on the other hand, the precedent being set is kind of a dangerous one. it was a very wide open pardon, which could under different circumstances, lead to problems in terms of future presidents. >> do you think he could hurt his legacy with this pardon, senator? >> well, i think his legacy is a strong legacy. i think president biden, on domestic policies, has been perhaps the most progressive president in american history since fdr. i think the economy today in many ways is in very strong shape. i do believe as president trump comes into office, we have to understand, kristen, this is something i feel strongly about. it's not talked about enough. we are moving into a form of society. never before, in american history, have so few billionaires. so few people have so much wealth and so much power. never before has there been so much concentration of ownership sector after sector. and never before in american

history, and we better talk about this. have the people on top had so much political power. we can't go around the world saying oh well, in russia, putin has an algarchy. huge amounts of money to elect their candidates. you know, here in the state of vermont, we believe we have town meetings. one person, one vote. that's democracy. not billionaires buying elections. we have to focus on, we have to rebuild the middle class. we are the only major country not to guarantee healthcare to all people. many seniors are struggling. high rates of childhood poverty. i look forward to working with president trump when he has ideas that will help the working class. we will vigorously oppose them if he wants to attack women's rights to control their own bodies. >> i want to ask you about one of the issues that you sited you care deeply about. you share the senate health

committee. i want to get your reaction to the horrific shooting of the united healthcare ceo, brian thompson. elizabeth warren said this. >> violence is never the answer. this guy gets a trial, who allegedly killed the ceo of united health. you can only push people so far. and then they start to take matters into their own hands. >> senator warren quickly clarified she said violence is never the answer. period. i should have been much clearer that there is never a justification for murder. my big picture question for you, though, senator, is this the right time in the wake of this horrific murder to be talking about healthcare policies? >> elizabeth warren obviously understands killing and murdering and shooting somebody many the back is totally unacceptable. but what i think has happened in the last few months is that what you have seen rising up is

people's anger at a health insurance industry, which denies people the healthcare that they desperately need while they make billions and billions of dollars in profit. so, killing anybody, shooting somebody in the back who is a father of two is outrageous. nobody should applaud it. i know senator warren did not. what we need to ask ourselves, when we talk about healthcare, is why we are the only major country on earth not to guarantee healthcare to all people. why we have a life expectancy, which is significantly lower than in other countries, why working class people die five to ten years shorter than the people on top. so kristen, i feel strongly about this. i think the time is long overdue for us to guarantee healthcare to every man, woman, and child, especially at a time when we are spending twice as much per capita on healthcare, as the people of every other nation. the goal of healthcare is to

not make drug companies and insurance companies rich. it's the guarantee quality care to all of our people. >> let me ask you about another topic, obviously, very important to working class voters. the minimum wage in my one on one interview with president- elect trump, i asked him if he would consider raising the minimum wage. it has been at 725. he acknowledged it is too low. it's quite complicated to raise the federal minimum wage. can you work with president- elect trump and get a deal on raising the minimum wage? >> i surely hope so. it is, i tried, i think two years ago, to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. we got zero. not one republican supported it. we ended up with 42 votes. a $7.25 per hour minimum wage is an absolute disgrace. we have millions of people in this country who are working

for starvation wages. they cannot afford housing. they cannot afford to adequately feed their kids. so yes, we have to raise the minimum wage. i would suggest to be $17 an hour. but i hope that we can work in a bipartisan way to finely accomplish that goal. >> senator, i have to ask you about this story. these reports of reported drones flying over new jersey, other parts of the east coast. the biden administration official said there has been a slight over reaction to these reports. i wonder, what do you make of the biden administration's reaction so far. are you satisfied by the administration's reaction? >> i honestly don't know anything more about that than what i read in the papers. sorry, can't give you great insight on that. >> are you concerned though? >> am i concerned?

yeah, i guess. i don't know. what can i tell you, yes, i'm concerned. >> very quickly, rfk, jr., will be on capitol hill this week. he talked about food safety. i know that is something that you have said you're interested in. he is also a vaccine skeptic. senator, where are you on rfk, jr., and his confirmation? >> i look forward to sitting down and talking with him. obviously, vaccines, whether it's polio or covid, have saved millions and millions of lives. and i strongly support vaccines. on the other hand, what i will tell you and we had a hearing on this recently. is the food industry, through the processed foods, are helping to cause obesity in this country. cause diabetes in these countries. with e have epidemics in our country in terms of diabetes and obesity. i think we have to tell the food industry, stop making our kids overweight and causing all kinds of health problems. >> are you open to voting yes

on rfk, jr., senator? >> the process, you know, there is a process. i'm going to sit down. we'll have a hearing on it. and it is premature to say how i will vote, or how anybody should vote unless you hear from the nominees. >> not ruling it out. we'll continue to stay in touch with you about that and all of these other topics. senator bernie sanders, thank you so much for joining us, really appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. when we come back, the search in syria for american journalist, austin tice, who has been missing in syria since 2012. his mother, debra tice, joins me next. m advil, advil targeted relief, the only topical with 4 powerful pain fighting ingredients that start working on contact and lasts up to 8 hours.

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welcome back. american journalist, austin tice has been missing in syria since 2012. his family has renewed hope he will be found now that assad's dictatorship has been over thrown. here's what president biden said last sunday. >> we are mindful there are americans in syria, including

those who reside there, as well as austin tice, who was taken captive more than 12 years ago. we remain committed to returning him to his family. >> what do you know about where austin tice might be and if he is safe? >> we believe he's alive. we think we can get him back, but we have no direct evidence to that yet. and assad to be held accountable. >> joining me now is debra tice, austin's mother. welcome to meet the press. thank you for being here. we are so sorry for what you and your family have been going through for the past 12 years. >> thank you so much for having me here. >> it's an honor to have you here. let's start off by talking about this extraordinary moment, rebels have overturned the assad regime. i know some in your family feel like this is a turning point. how do you feel right now about your chances of finding austin? >> well, when we first came

into the city, we met with the state department, we met with the white house. it was saturday night when this happened. when they breeched. and for us, you know, this kind of chaos, for us it represented a huge opening. a huge opportunity and especially when people started going into the prison, finding their families, you know, there was a man that had been held in silence for 34 years and he was reunited with his family and so you know, we are just really excited about being a reunited family. >> we have information that suggests that he is alive? >> austin was born alive. and he's been alive ever since then. so, i have never had any doubt about that. >> nbc news richard engel visited one of the prisons you

just referenced. he spoke to someone who was held in this prison who said he was kept in a cell right across from austin and he saw him in 2012. we're looking at some of that video right now, mrs. tice. it's extraordinary to see some of the drawings on the walls. when you see this video, what goes through your mind? >> i think he was with austin in 2022. yeah, and we were able to verify that. he was. as far as, you know, of course we have incredible respect for the people that are going in to the cells in the prisons. that must be very challenging. but we do have some feelings about what richard saw and we're just so glad that he went in there and we're so glad that he filmed it and it matters.

it mattered to us hugely. >> it's very significant. you have also confirmed that you believe austin was there in 2022. >> yeah. >> okay. syria obviously has this new rebel group that has taken over. have you been in touch with any of the new leadership within syria? they told the u.s. government they are trying to find austin. >> well, we haven't engaged with them, but we work very closely with hostage aid worldwide and they are on the ground. so we ask people if they have any information at all that they reach out to hostage aid worldwide. they are the ones we've been working with. they had a huge campaign in syria and lebanon about austin asking for information about austin. so now they are on the ground and they are ready. they know what to do when they find him. >> they are on the ground.

the biden administration is doing everything they can to bring austin home. yet based on what we've been told, there aren't u.s. officials in demascas searching for austin. do you think there should be? what do you make of that? >> the u.s. government has made the decision they are not going into damascas. my feeling is, if they don't want to be there, they shouldn't be there. if people that are there are the people that are determined and there are, richard engels is there, other journalists are there. hostage aid worldwide is there. they are determined to be looking. they are going into the cells. they are going into some deep and dark places. and obviously, they are compelled to be there and the u.s. government is not. >> should the u.s. government be there? >> what do you think?

>> we'll take your silence as your answer there. you know, there was this really remarkable moment where another american, travis timmerman was found wandering in the outskirts of damascus. many thought this could be your son, austin, of course it was not. how did that moment unfold for you? >> so, when i go to sleep, i silence my phone and i really go to sleep. my children don't do that. so my oldest daughter came into my room at 4:25 and said mom, you know, we have this video. you need to look at it. we don't think it's austin, but we don't think it's austin. you know, and kind of waking up out of the fog and you know, i took a glance and i said no. that is not austin. she said yeah, i know, no, mom, it's not austin, but we had to wake you up, we had to ask you about it. of course, we had so many

people reaching out. this is so great. what a wonderful day. so it's almost like having a rehearsal, you know? of just an inkling when it will be austin walking free. >> was it a moment of false hope? it was a fleeting moment before you looked at that photo. did it feel like you had false hope? >> the way i've been feeling about the people that i see coming out and even travis is, you know, that feeling where as humans, we share joy, right? we share suffering, too, but we share joy. just seeing these families reunited. think about travis' family being reunited with him. you know, what incredible joy. we can share that. >> what do you want people to

know about austin as you sit here today and can you explain to people how you have kept going? how you have been so strong for more than 12 years now. >> austin tice, let's see. he has a very strong will. he always has. he has a huge joy of life. he is very much a fully alive person. he was in his first year of law school and he was compelled to go into the marines. and he is just a man of honor. if he is called to do something, he's going to do it all the way. that's his personality. he was in dc at 9/11. and he experienced that. he saw the pentagon burning, and he just took it on, i have

an obligation to serve my country. >> and so he continued to do so with his decision to go to syria. we are going to pray for his safe return as soon as possible. in that reunion we know you hold in your head and your heart. debra tice, it's an honor to have you here. thank you so much. we really appreciate it. >> it's great to be here with you. thank you for having me. i really appreciate it. i'll be back with austin. >> well, we cannot wait for that moment. thank you so much, debra tice. >> presidential pardons for family members. is it ever appropriate? our meet the press minute is next.

welcome back. new polls this week show low approval for president biden's pardon for his son. a similar controversy surrounded bill clinton in 2001. after a string of pardons, including one for a fugitive from justice and another for his brother, roger, who faced drug charges. days after those pardons, the late senator, joe lieberman joined this broadcast to share his thoughts. >> the constitution article 2 gives the president an unlimited power of pardon and reprieve. but it seems to me that when you exercise this power, the

best thing to do is to do it according to procedures. and when there's not consultation with the pardons attorney and the justice department, or with the prosecutors who prosecuted the case, then people will second guess the decision of the president. >> how about legislation, which says these are the procedures that should be used in granting a presidential pardon. >> it's an interesting idea. i think the important question is, is there something more congress can do to try to express through ourselves the will of the american people about a procedure for issuing pardons? >> and when we come back with just 36 days until a change of power in washington, are republican senators facing increased pressure to back trump's cabinet picks? the panel is next.

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you will also find new releases on history, biography and more. nbc news receives a commission for sales made through our website. welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news capitol hill correspondent, ryan nobles. amna, ashley, former communications director for vice president kamala harris. and peggy nunan, columnist for the wall street journal and author of the new book, a certain idea of america, peggy, we have the new book right here. congratulations. we're going to get to it. let's start off, though, ryan, i want to start talking about these confirmation battles that we are seeing unfold on capitol hill. a flurry of meetings. pete hegseth has been in the spotlight. obviously, with president-elect trump at the army-navy game yesterday. where does the battle go from here? who is kind of going to be in focus this coming week? >> i think the way to look at this is, and you can do it in the lens of the pete hegseth

nomination. there won't be more early exits. we saw matt gaetz exit quickly, it was clear he didn't have the votes. all these other nominees, they will all get the opportunity to go through the confirmation process, answer questions in an open hearing, and then we'll see if they have the votes. there's no doubt that the hegseth nomination is in a much better position than it was two weeks ago. senators are open to letting him go through this process. there's no guarantee that he is going to make it through the finish line at this point. next week is going to be crucial, though, because that's when robert f. kennedy, jr., will be on capitol hill for the first time. he is a controversial pick. for instance, the pro life community is not happy that he would take over an agency like the department of human services. so, the question is, does he shield pete hegseth to get

through the holidays? those are all the things we'll be watching for on capitol hill. >> what are you watching for? this comes as christopher ray announced he is resigning three years short of what he was supposed to leave his post. >> the interesting thing about the ray decision, the argument for why ray should have stayed, if you believe this powerful organization that people worked so hard to keep nonpolitical, that's the ten-year terms. if you believe that it should remain that way, then you stay and you fight and you make the president fire you, if he's going do that, rather than obeying in advance. the implications, we'll see immediately at the bureau. this clears the way for trump's nominee of kash patel, that wants to reform the bureau from the inside out. you asked those questions of mr. trump in the interview. the broader implications, if the fbi is not willing to fight for the safeguards, there's a question of, who will? >> it's a great point.

peggy, pick up there. within the context of some of what we heard. some republicans feel like they are being pressured to get in line. and senator graham kind of said, well that's what happens here. >> yeah, he didn't fight on that. i believe it was lisa murkowski who said just the other day, i think to no labels, look, people are being put under real pressure. you better tow the line. it's a very funny thing, but there was a time when you were afraid if you were republican of donald trump, you are now afraid of donald trump's operatives on the ground in various states, who as lisa murkowski said, will primary you. will push you around in any number of ways so they are under real pressure. but in a funny way, the democrats are going to be under pressure, too. it will be pressure in these sparky hearings that everybody

watches. not to seem merely obstructionist or partisan. to be well read. know your brief. know who this person is, and pull them out. let them reveal themselves. >> ashley, what do you expect to see from democrats. as peggy says, they have a fascinating role to play here. >> peggy is absolutely right. the challenge for democrats will be pick and choose your battles. i personally believe the one nominee we are ignoring who is the biggest threat is tulsi gabbart. those that i think pose a greatest threat to america, those are going to be the ones they will have to lean in on and tulsi is one of them. >> she'll be back on the hill this week. let's talk about peggy's book. in one chapter, you call this chapter quote, it appears he didn't take my advice. in two of your columns.

in one, you advised joe biden not to run in 2020, and moderate his tone in 2016. what advice do you have for the incoming president, peggy, now, do you think? >> speaking of the hearings, president-elect trump made himself look very good when his nominee, mr. gaetz, knew it wasn't going to work, dropped out, and trump accepted it. a certain give. a certain amount of move softly. it made trump look good a few weeks ago. maybe he should keep it in mind for the future. for the coming future, for january, have a good inaugural, have a good inauguration, but also have an address that is not american carnage. that is instead americans are tired of feeling like they are part of a sinking nation. if trump feels he is right on

the issues, paint a rising nation. >> what's so fascinating, to pick up on peggy's point, i asked him, what is the theme of your inaugural address going to be? he said, unity. do you think he can strike a tone of unity? he said he was going to do that during his convention address. part of it did. certainly we veered into campaign rhetoric. what will you be watching for? >> i don't think he can strike a tone of unity as much as i think he would want to. the reality, though, his first steps, you know, all we have to do is refer back to what he says he will do on day one. he will deport millions of people. he will pardon those that initiated a deadly attack on the capital. the most -- i think he'll have a hard time doing this. i don't think it's in his dna. his dna is carnage. i think that is how he won.

he leaned into it in the last election and it proved to be a winner for him. the one thing we know is he's a creature of habit, and he will lean on what he's always done. >> ryan, lindsey graham did signal today there could be some pushback to some of what president-elect trump has said. he was very clear, no, when i asked if president-elect trump, his administration jail the january 6th committee members. >> right. but that's not something that the u.s. senate can stop him from doing, right? same thing with the pardoning the january 6th defendants. with e have to look for these opportunities that the senate has to be a coequal branch of government, and push back on the radical things trump wants to do. the showdown could be the recess appointment. this is in the control of the congress, whether or not they allow a recess appointment to happen. i'm told it remains a tool in the tool box.

if republicans feel that democrats are the ones standing in the way of a nominee that could have the votes, but ultimately with 53 votes, republicans are going to determine whether or not these nominees make it through the confirmation process and if trump doesn't have the votes and pushes them to go the recess appointment route, that could be the indication to us whether or not they will roll over every time he challenges them or whether they will stand up to him when they think it's necessary. >> give us the final thought on this, is there any hope that something could get done in a bipartisan fashion, like what senator sanders said? like the minimum wage. >> there could be a path ahead for a few of those. dreamers, there's a lot about how president trump's next term will go within the back based on the way the public reacted or the courts have said. we'll learn a lot in those first days. sources have already told us, they expect tons of executive orders. some told me they are written

and ready to go. i'm watching immigration closely. we know trump is very susceptible to public perception. he told you about that in the interview as well. >> great conversation. thank you all for being here. that is all for today. thank you for watching. we'll be back next week, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." " ♪♪ ♪♪ i'm in a good place with pete unless something i don't know about comes out. these allegations are disturbing, but they are anonymous. you aren't going to destroy thi nomination based on anonymous sources. people have to come forward and make credible allegations. we'll see if they do. >> that's republican