hardly seems to be a crime. we'll see where things go. i think he is planning to hit a lot of directions all at once. it's like the movie, "everything, everywhere, all at once." >> well said. he does so with republican majorities, though slim in both house and senate, and a democratic party that's still sorting out how to respond and embolden donald trump back in power soon. chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker, thank you, as always. we appreciate you joining us this morning. we will talk to you again soon. thanks to all of you for getting up "way to early" with us on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. christmas is nine days away, and everyone is in the spirit. tonight, i was admiring all the beautiful lights, and then i realized it was just the drones over new jersey. [ laughter ] >> one new jersey politician proposed a bill to give local law enforcement the same type of capability as the department of defense and homeland security, permission to down one of these unmanned drones. he wants local police to shoot

at anything in the sky in december. [ laughter ] santa, i hope you have a kevlar sleigh, and don't forget to take the battery out of rudolph's nose. we'll have more on the story as we continue to learn nothing about it. >> the government knows what is happening. look, our military knows where they took off from. if it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. they know where it came from and where it went. for some reason, they don't want to comment. and i think they'd be better off saying what it is. our military knows, and our president knows. for some reason, they want to keep people in suspense. i can't imagine it's the enemy because if it was the enemy, they'd blast it out, even if they were late. they'd blast it. something strange is going on. for some reason, they don't want

to tell the people, and they should. >> donald trump yesterday not exactly tamping down public concern about the possibility drone sightings across several states. we'll go through what federal agencies are actually saying about the sightings and if they are a security risk. the president-elect also addressed the pressure campaign on republican senators to get his cabinet picks confirmed. we'll play for you those comments. it comes as his controversial choice to lead the department of health and human services, robert f. kennedy jr., will be back on capitol hill today to answer questions about his long history of vaccine skepticism. and we'll go through the new reporting on the man who has been escorting pete hegseth around capitol hill for weeks and his bid to clench the nomination for secretary of defense. willie, is this true?

going to the giants? >> the quarterback at colorado, deion sanders' son, could be going. prime, i don't know. i think day boll gets another year. >> ready for primetime in new york city? >> what a skeptical that'd be. stranger things have happened. i think daboll gets another year. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." tuesday, december 17th. along with joe, willie, ask nd we have the host of "way too early," but not for long. you are not counting the days, are you? >> this is my last week doing it, but, no, it's not like i'm bankrolling the sleep. >> pulitzer prize winning columnist and editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. congressional reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany. and joining us in new york, congressman tim ryan of ohio joins us. great to have you on board.

>> i'm curious, lemire's last run. right? is this more like -- >> lemire's last run. >> johnny carson. >> cute. >> saying good-bye? the guests come on. remember letterman, how moving, like that. more like dr. j going around the nba. you know, what's it more like? >> i think it's larry bird's last season, right? >> well, his ended abruptly with a bad back, so that actually might be -- >> doesn't fit because you're going on to play for another team. >> that's right. >> our team with us full time. >> yeah. >> i don't know, is it -- >> i've asked for the foo fighters to play me out like david letterman. >> yeah. >> they haven't responded yet to our request. i'm not sure that's going to happen or not. >> we'll be reaching out. >> yes, see if they're available. >> in the corner near rattner. >> we look forward to you and your new iteration. >> thank you, guys. appreciate it. we begin with president-elect's warning to senate republicans, opposed to some of his cabinet nominations.

in a wide-ranging news conference from his palm beach estate yesterday, the president-elect was asked about lawmakers who don't support his picks. here is what he said. >> senators who oppose your nominees, your cabinet knock-knees, should they be primaried? >> if they are unreasonable. i'll give you a different answer, an answer you'll be shocked to hear. if they're unreasonable, if they're opposing somebody for political reasons or stupid reasons, i would say has nothing to do with me. i would say they probably would be primaried. but if they're reasonable, fair, and really disagree with something or somebody, i could see that happening. but i do believe that if they're -- i think we have great people. i think we have a great group of people. >> boy, willie, yesterday, we were talking about the back and forth. a lot of the republican senators saying, hey, you know what? the pressure campaign, not really going to work. in fact, it may be backfiring.

the press conference, very interesting. he said, if they're unreasonable and personal, i could see him being primaried. they're reasonable, don't like their views or something like that, i could see that. that comes, again, just background, we first of all remember gaetz going down. people saying, we traded up with pam bondi. we got a better deal out of it. just the facts that hegseth, there's still the feeling he is not going to make it through. we have news today suggesting even yesterday, he's showing horrific judgment on the hill with a person that's taking him around on the hill. also tulsi gabbert. again, the word just is that she just did terribly last week. not up to it. not even up to doing the interviews in a way that gave confidence to republican senators who wanted to support her. so there are at least two picks

right there that i have a feeling, if they go by the wayside, he's not going to be too upset. he does want rfk jr. from all we hear, but these two, i'm not so sure that wasn't just a tip to the senate going, if you have good reasons to not take those two, we understand. >> yet, it came two days after he took great pains to be seen publicly with them. took them to the army/navy football game, which he wouldn't have done if he were casting them aside. >> right. >> so i think what i'm hearing, and you're probably hearing, too, from some of the republicans is, to donald trump and his team, look, there are conservatives, there are republicans, there are people who will be loyal to you who are not pete seg hegseth, not tulsi gabbard, are not matt gaetz, is what they made clear to him. i think they're trying to massage trump a little bit, finesse this and say, we hear you, we understand. we'll give them a fair hearing,

interviews. but we have some other ideas of people who could be in those jobs. i'm curious, tim, congressman, you serve with a lot of these people. the big question that hangs over all these choices, and really the next four years is, how far can donald trump push these members? how far can he push them to say, you're going to do what i say or else? do you think they're willing to cross him on pete hegseth, on tulsi gabbard, maybe even rfk jr.? >> good part is we're seeing the system play out. we said, there's not going to be guardrails. we, there kind of still is. to joe's point, it's like, these guys aren't up for the job. you can get somebody else. we'll be nice. we'll do it politely and quietly, and then we'll give you everything out you want. i think that's how it's going to play out. pete, the pentagon would swallow him up in one week, no joke. >> push aside all the other horrific lapses in judgment. >> of course. >> you look at his lack of

inexperience, and i've said it time and time again. you know, that's a job -- i'm sure you and i think we could do most jobs. >> i don't want that job. >> i don't want that job. i remember chris lake called me up and said, "hey, i may be able to take the cnn job." i said, you don't want the cnn job because of the bureaucracy and the pentagon. i said that, like, 30 years ago. the pentagon is even harder. the bureaucracy will swallow you up whole unless you really have been walking those corridors for years. i mean -- >> decades. >> -- you know, served committee for four terms. >> even if. >> even then, it was like -- >> the weapon systems, the training, the tanks, the guns, the bullets, the satellites. >> the bureaucrats. >> the cybersecurity. >> the housing, the benefits. >> yeah, it's wild.

>> it'd swallow anybody. he's not up to the task. if you want to reform the pentagon, you're exactly right, you better get somebody that knows the pentagon. >> 100%. "the new york times" has new reporting on the man who has been escorting pete hegseth around capitol hill this month. according to the paper, john hazenbine is a former special forces sergeant who left the military after attacking a civilian during a training exercise in 2019. this is the guy who is escorting hegseth around capitol hill now. >> to the senators' offices. >> right. witnesses said he beat the civilian role player who is a former member of iraq's army elite, counterterrorism service, kicking him, punching him, and leaving him hog tied in a pool of his own blood. among other injuries, the civilian was left with a broken nose, a broken tooth, a sprained shoulder, a scalp hematoma, and

blunt facial trauma, according to memos and statements by company employees about the episode. the army d hasenbein with aggravated assault and reckless endangerment. a military jury found him guilty in a court marshall in 2020 according to army records. but the judge overseeing the case declared a mistrial after learning that a friend of hasenbein had been talking to a juror throughout the trial. the court records show. the army did not retry the case. in a statement to "the times," hasenbein said, "i have no conviction, and was honorably retired after 2 year 22 years o service. that's all you need to know." >> if i'm not mistaken, he was given the choice, retrialing or leaving. that's beyond, beyond telling,

jonathan lemire, when his nomination is already on life support, that he brings a guy like this that has been charged with this by the united states military. >> right. >> that's the thing. the united states military. of beating the hell out of someone in a military exercise. being charged for him, a u.s. sill zen sit citizen being charged with . he went time and time again to trump, trying to get people charged in the military for abusive behavior. he became champions of abusers. >> that's the important context here. that's how he got on donald trump's radar to begin with. he'd defend members of the military accused of misconduct, in matters of abuse or worse, and he was able to successfully

get some of them, you know, clemency from the president of the united states. the hegseth camp is saying this is a sign of loyalty, that he is sticking with his guys no matter what the accusation was. this is what he is going to bring to the pentagon, defend those who serve the country and stand up for those -- >> there are a lot of people who serve the country who, in military exercises, and i know because i'm on the armed services committee, i get to see a lot of the military exercises, they don't kick the hell out of somebody. they don't kick them in the ribs. they don't hogtie them. they don't break their tooth. they don't leave them in a pool of blood. there are a lot of people, lot of honorable men and women that serve in the military that could have been escorting him around like that. some say he's constantly got to prove a point. >> every bit of that is right. he had other options. this is a deliberate point, a signal that he is sending, in part because, i am told, he thinks donald trump respects that. the idea of doubling down, fighting, don't give an inch. we will see if that plays out in

the politics, though, of his confirmation choice, because we already know there are a number of senators who expressed reservations, public and private, about hegseth's conduct, his judgment. this is a matter of judgment here. also, reporting shows that although trump is still supporting this pick, took him to the army/navy game, as you noted, he hasn't gone fully to bat for him yet. he's not personally said, hegseth is my guy. hasn't called the senators. posted on truth social. >> they think more things are coming out. >> there's an expectation more is coming. hegseth is a few votes short. >> senators are saying -- >> this wasn't it? >> all these senators are saying, why do i have to say anything when gravity is going to do all my work for me? >> right. >> that's what they're thinking. when you hear them going, let's let the process play out. let's see what happens. >> how could there be more? >> we'll wait. process, play out. it means, yeah, we're just going to sit there and watch him and watch the gravity pull him

through with the weight of more things coming out. >> jackie, you obviously cover these members every single day. what's your sense of how or how not this has evolved? there was great skepticism a couple weeks ago around pete hegseth. seemed like he was doomed. a little tone shift from someone like senator ernst last week but not a full support by any stretch of the imagination. where are things now with his potential nomination and where things are headed? >> this wait and see posture, wait until there's more fbi background checks, wait until we get closer to the process and keep quiet until then is the strategy that most senators are currently employing. doing everything behind closed doors. after seeing joni ernst take a radically different approach that staffers and members that we've spoken to were really critical of. she sort of overshot her own power and influence by going out on fox news, getting ahead of herself, saying that she was not

ready to support hegseth in a pretty public way. triggering sort of this public criticism and full-court press on her from maga world. four days later, backtracking on it in a way that sort of damages her credibility and also her standing in trump world. you're seeing the rest of the senators now learning a very different lesson from her actions. but we have seen a slight win for some republican senators. tom fox successfully was one of the people who lobbied trump to step down from considering fox kennedy, who was proposed to be the cia number two, the deputy to john ratcliffe. after some private conversations and concerns raised with trump directly about kennedy's past comments and statements and pleefs s beliefs about the cia, trump ultimately decided he wasn't

going to consider her anymore. this was done in a stealth way, behind closed doors, you know, cotton along with some other republican senators who have a very idealogical approach to foreign intervention and foreign espionage and sort of these subversive ionage tactics that the cia does t. and cottonn particular, sees as important to u.s. intelligence, was successful in his lobbying. i think this is the approach going forward. so far, you haven't really seen many other public, specific criticisms of people who might have similar problems to fox, such as tulsi gabbard. >> gene robinson, it seems everybody s taken the, let's wait and see. no need to have anyone screaming at us and our staff members over christmas holiday, saying we're not going to support a trump pick. let's let the fbi

investigations, let's let the further newspaper investigations take its course, and then, you know, you'll see people like, probably, murkowski, collins, who has to win in a very blue state two years from now, mitch mcconnell, maybe cassidy who voted against impeachment, doing what they'll likely do. especially on hegseth and gabbert. that's what was so interesting yesterday, in what donald trump said at the end of that statement we played. you know, if you disagree with him, disagree with their policies, if you disagree with them personally for those positions, i get it. which is sort of, i think -- >> some space. >> it's extraordinarily telling. a lot of space. it's a lot different than what all these outside groups are doing to try to make money on

this. >> yeah, donald trump is not going to the mat for these nominees, not for hegseth, not for gabbert. maybe he is for rfk jr. i think he'll likely get him through. but, look, i come back to what you were saying at the beginning of the segment, which is, pete hegseth is in no way qualified to be secretary of defense. that's just -- i think those senators you mentioned, and probably others, really can't get past that. i'm not sure they could get past the fact of this guy walking around with him who was court marshalled for that horrific incident, but he's -- look, the world is on fire. the u.s. has forces around the globe and is constantly moving

resources and people here and there, trying to put out the fires as best it can. to keep our people as best we can out of harm's way while, you know, fulfilling missions. that's enormously complicated, and it takes somebody who really knows the military inside and out, who knows the pentagon inside out, who knows what levers to push and pull. hegseth has none of that. it would just be madness to have somebody like that running the defense department now. it's just not acceptable. and then, of course, tulsi gabbard presents a whole different set of issues around the question of loyalty, frankly. >> well, yeah, loyalty to syria, loyalty to russia. i mean, loyalty, yeah, it's really bizarre. again, with pete hegseth, as we

said, not qualified, and, yet, still doing things. >> yeah. >> even yesterday, he gets a guy who is charged, and we went through the details, just beating the hell out of somebody that was there to help them with an exercise. then, you know, the case thrown out on a technicality. but the facts are still there. hegseth knows it. i guess wants to prove a point. >> right. >> that he can -- >> in your face. >> that he can champion people that have been accused of abusing others in the military. >> "the washington post"'s jackie alemany, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. ahead on "morning joe," what we're learning about a private school shooting in wisconsin that left a teacher and a student dead and several others injuries. we'll get a live report from madison next. plus, we'll hear from tim ryan on where he thinks the dnc headquarters should be moved to. it's a hint, where he's from. we're back in 90 seconds.

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2 past 2 past the hour. police identified a shooter at a school in wisconsin as a 15-year-old female student. two people were killed, a student and a teacher, and six others were injured after that female student opened fire yesterday. officials say the shooter was also killed. >> a second grade student called

911 to report a shooting had occurred at school. let that soak in for a minute. a second grade student called 911 at 10:57 a.m. to report a shooting at school. >> nbc news correspondent kathy park joins us live from madison. kathy, what is the latest officials there are telling you this morning about what happened? >> reporter: mika, good morning to you. abundant life christian school has roughly 420 students k through 12. it's turned into a crime scene. they were just days away from being released for christmas break. as you mentioned, the shooter came in yesterday morning, killing a student as well as a teacher, injuries six others. as of this morning, we know two are still in critical condition. the 15-year-old shooter was a

student, and according to authorities, died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound as she was being transported to the hospital. we do know that a handgun was recovered, and the shooting happened in an isolated part of the school. we're told it was in a classroom during study hall. there were students of all grades at the time. as you heard, the police chief said a second grader called 911, reporting this emergency, this active shooter yesterday morning. we do know that the investigation is still in its infancy, preliminary stages at this point. authorities were at the shooter's home yesterday. we know there was a huge law enforcement presence, and they were collecting evidence. they did not say what they were able to pull from that house. we do know that the parents of the shooter, they are cooperating with the investigation. there is also a document related to the shooting that is circulating online. that is also being processed at

this time. still so many questions about the motive. we don't know what the motive is at this point. we do know there will be another update for media and the public later on this afternoon. mika. kathy park, live in madison, wisconsin, thank you. willie, the timing, of course, there's never a good timing for this. this does bring back, though, just haunting memories of 12 years ago, sandy hook, the last friday before the kids were supposed to go home for their christmas holidays. just the tragedy there. in those years, you know, they believe that that horror would finally lead to some reasonable gun safety laws that 90% of americans supported. 80%, 70% on several issues. we had small gains for it a few years ago but just not enough. >> yeah, the anniversary, actually, was on saturday, 12 years since the sandy hook

school shooting. i ive not too far from there, and every time i drive by, i sometimes stop and think about what happened that day. here we are again. in this case, according to police, it was a handgun. it was a girl, unusual for school shootings. usually, you have a male with an ar-15 style rifle. we don't nomotive.know motive o got the gun. it's been interesting in the last couple years, there's been this new movement to hold -- and i'm not suggesting anything in this case because we don't know -- to hold parents accountable. >> right. >> some have been prosecuted successfully for providing weapons or not reporting information about their child. we'll learn more as the day goes on here. for now, just a horrible tragedy. again, remember last year, in nashville, a small christian school, the covenant school, a horrific scene. here again in the abundant life school in madison. >> congressman, you and i grew up in cultures where there were a lot of guns. >> uh-huh. >> people may say, if there are

a lot of guns, there must be a lot of recklessness. no, we'd go into relatives' houses on thanksgiving. yeah, they had shotguns. guess what? they were locked up. they locked up their guns. they knew how to use them. they kept them safe. you know, so let us hope that, you know, in cases that we see moving forward, that if somebody is reckless and leaving guns around -- and i'm not saying that's the case here at all, we don't know -- but, parents that leave guns lying around are liable. i want to go back to what we've been talking about since 2012 and sandy hook. i mean, 90% of americans support universal background checks. 80% of americans support red flag laws. even two-thirds of americans in many surveys support military

style weapons being banned. i'm sure the number would do higher if you just said, you know, making it harder for killers and criminally insane people getting their hands on those. yet, there's such little progress. i know you've been there since sandy hook. you've been on the floor of congress. what gets in the way? >> the gun industry. i mean, clearly. i think we've got to, like, take a step back and say, okay, everything you just said, if you have mental health issue, if you're a criminal, absolutely not. the red flag laws. i think that's completely reasonable, most people agree. you're an honest, law-abiding gun owner, you want to hunt, fine, no one cares. this woman, this girl, very disturbed. we see a crisis with young men across the country and mental health. mika, i know you talk about this a lot. we shouldn't just say, oh, it's the gun or, oh, it's mental

health. it's both. >> right. >> how do people who have these issues, how are they able to get a gun? clearly, i mean, if it was the same woman i saw on social media, clearly, she was pretty disturbed. >> yeah. >> how does that kid, kid, get the gun? you know, then the second grader and all of that. you have to have both discussion at the same time. >> sure. >> the people who get the contributions from the gun industry, the manufacturing industry, they say, oh, it's mental health. you try to fundamental health, and they tell you -- >> they don't want to fundamental health. it's garbage, really is. that's the argument. it's always a circular argument. they start with the circular argument about the guns. oh, well, this regulation wouldn't have stopped that shooting. that's kind of like saying, well, that car accident, you know, wouldn't have been saved if you had an air bag. >> yeah. >> no, you make the entire situation, you make it holistically safer for children to go to school, for

parishioners to go to church, for workers to go to their jobs. you look at it and you look at it holistically. you look at mental health wholistically, too, instead of the cop out, oh, we need to fundamental health. then you go, let's fundamental health. they go, no, we're not funding mental health. >> 100%. it's the same as we were talking about the senate, with the nominating process. you just let the news cycle cycle out, and then it goes away and nothing gets done. time for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. the german government has collapsed. chancellor olaf scholz lost a confidence vote, putting europe's largest company under a -- >> olaf, we hardly knew ye. >> yeah. >> we have germany. we have france's government that collapsed. now, they have a new prime minister. o, canada. >> did you see canada? >> looks like that's about to

go -- >> what is going on? >> i mean, western governments, man, are really having a huge challenge right now. >> as joe mentioned, the government of france also broke apart earlier this month. both countries struggling to revive their economies and social divides and geopolitical pressures. a lot going on. also, battle tested ukrainian forces are reportedly taking out waves of north korean troops sent in to battle by the kremlin. >> who is surprised here? anybody surprised? >> no hands raised. >> ukraine says the inexperienced fighters make for easy targets. three ukrainian soldiers fighting in the kursk region described waves of what appeared to be north korean troops flooding the battlefields in full view of ukrainian drones and other weaponry in recent days. >> so the russians are sending them out. "hey, why don't you go see that?" >> terrible. >> wander out into the open field.

see what you can fine. >> it'll be fine. >> yeah, probably just did it last week. you go. also here at home -- >> it's not going to work well. >> -- congressman ocasio-cortez lost a key show of support yesterday in her push to serve as the top democrat on the house oversight committee next year. the powerful steering and policy committee recommended congressman jerry connelly of virginia instead. while that panel yields strong influence over the party, the results are not final until full caucus votes today. >> congressman, let me ask about that. aoc energizes younger voters. even across party lines, they're energized by her. i know the establishment in the democratic party not going to be as excited by some of her views. they will be left of center of probably where the mainstream democratic caucus is. but how does she get involved in a meaningful way? she lost the race yesterday. that certainly would have done it. but what's a good pathway forward? again, the challenge for

democrats, stop firing at each other, right? instead, figure out how to get the progressive wing, which i have said time and again, they were in many ways pretty patient during the biden administration. going along with some bills they didn't agree with. and the more conservative to moderate wing, how do they get together, move forward with a common goal of winning elections? >> i think hakeem jeffries is going to -- the leader of the democratic party in the house is going to have to figure out how to position someone like her. because you run into the inertia of congress. on the republican side, you have six-year term limits for committee chairs. the democratic side, you do not. people can get into the leadership position and really, there's no movement. i think that was a lot of frustration for guys like me and others who were trying to, like, climb the ladder or get into positions. it takes so much time. she's such a powerful voice, i think, for the party, and i think you see how she handled, like, the trump/bernie voter

phenomenon. >> exactly. >> about how to really talk to them. ethink she's i think she's trying to educate democrats how do you talk to people about the working class, economic issues to bring them into the fold? whether you're with redistribution, grow the pie with democratic socialism, or a reformed capitalism. that's the argument you should have. she's clearly very talented and understanding how to connect the working class people. she needs a place in the party to talk about those kinds of things. >> congressman, big picture democratic party post election. let's talk about soul searching, what has to change. >> do we have to? >> let's do it. >> i'll read from the piece in "newsweek." "dnc should move d.c. headquarters to youngstown, ohio." that's where you're from. you've been talking about what happened on election night ten years now. you're saying, we're losing

these people, need to work harder to keep these people. a lot of democrats have woken up to what you've been saying a while. what now for democrats? >> well, i'd say that a little tongue in cheek, of move the headquarters to youngstown, ohio. where there's working class people, it is an old factory town. they're gritty. we have created a great coaching culture. youngstown has been known as the cradle of coaches, the stoops brothers, jim tress el, urban meyer is not from far away. how are you gritty? how do you lead? how are you disciplined? how do you have straight talk, honest conversations with people so your team trusts you? democrats have lost the trust. i say youngstown. it could be flint. it could be detroit, toledo, steubenville, milwaukee, pittsburgh. it doesn't matter. it just can't be in freaking washington, d.c. like, how many times are we going to talk to ourselves about something that's irrelevant to that person in youngstown, ohio, who comes out of that culture,

the economic anxiety and all of that? so it can't be in washington, d.c. i think it would be a very good, strategic move, and as i say in the piece, to have the workers there. have these high, overpaid consultants go to a place like youngstown. play bocci, watch sports, be in the community, eat dinner, great italian food. they're going to eat well. go there and just listen. don't be on twitter. don't tell them what you think. nobody cares what you think. listen. two ears, one mouth. you listen, just like we were raised. if we do that, we will begin to shift the culture of the party. >> congressman, so youngstown is a great example, but i think decades ago, i guess the big employer there was probably republic steel. i remember when i was in college, i had a friend whose dad grew up in youngstown. his dad worked for republic

steel. you know, so it's one thing to listen and play bocci, but what should the message be for a place like youngstown, ohio? what should democrats be saying they intend to do or they want to do to make people's lives better there? >> we have got to become the party of reform. period, end of story. everything needs to fit under that. everyone knows the government is broke nen broken. everybody knows the economy is not working for them, eugene. whether you're white, black, brown, male, female, work in manufacturing or retail, you know we blow way too much money on health care. you know we're spending billions of dollars on education, yet we're not getting the skill set we need to dominate the new economy. we know that affordability around energy is not where it needs to be. we know these communities need rebuilt, these downtowns are

empty. the rivers are dirty. like, we need a huge reform agenda, and that's where i think we drop the ball and gave trump that lane on reform. you're seeing it now with doge, he's the one taking on the broken economic system. even though he has concepts of a plan with health care, you know, he's at least ing there is a lot of problems with health care. we didn't get the message out on the insulin and those other things. so i think the brand for democrats needs to be, you know, reform and renewal, a la teddy roosevelt. we're going to take on these entrenched interests. i actually think what robert kennedy jr. is doing talking about food. i mean, what we've done to the food industry, the consolidation in meat packing, consolidation around seed and pesticides, like, why can't with we go into rural america and tell farmers, we're on your side. we know it went from seven, eight, nine different seed producers to two or three, and

it's basically a monopoly and you're getting screwed. we've got to have some courage. we've got to have the guts to say, we're going to go into rural america. you can't leave voters out there just like they don't know what you stand for. >> let me ask you this. how can it be that in youngstown, ohio, the average salary last year was $34,000 a year. for a family, for a household. household average salary last year, $34,000. yet, a government of the billionaires, for the billionaires, by the billionaires, won ohio overwhelmingly. how does that happen? how did democrats miss that layup? why have they continued to miss that layup for years? average household of $34,000 voting for a government of the

billionaires, for the billionaires, by the billionaires, over and over again. how could it be that ohio is gone? >> i don't think ohio is gone, but they saw trump as the blue collar billionaire who is going to go in and help fix it, and maybe he's the only guy that could. unfortunately, as much as i love bill clinton, they see the democrats as the ones who passed nafta and led us through globalization. and those workers at places like delphi or general motors, we literally watched those jobs go from warren, ohio, over the border into mexico, and ship the products back. our workers were unfolding machines. my cousin from the factory floor shipped it to china. >> happened in 1994. >> it's still in the dna, joe. >> democrats can't figure something out from 1994 forward? >> well, no, that's the problem. they said, you did this. obama was in for eight years. things are not -- have not

gotten any better. now, finally, to biden's credit, we have -- we are reindustrializing the country. >> right. >> but we didn't have a reform, reindustrializing, we're taking on those guys and putting -- there's a battery plant outside of youngstown, 2,000 uaw jobs, 30 bucks an hour, renegotiated the contract. we didn't hear about that. all the upside we didn't talk about. a all the reforms we were trying to make around insulin and others, you didn't hear a ton about it. it wasn't a big, bold agenda. it was piecemeal. we need the big reform agenda, carry a big stick. >> all right. >> former democratic congressman tim ryan, thank you for coming on this morning. >> great to see you. coming up, the biggest trends to watch in 2025. "the economist" is out with its annual predictive guide to the coming here. we'll break it all down in ten themes. >> number seven theme, bocci in youngstown, ohio. >> i see a road trip. >> all right. >> we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 46 past the hour. >> it's not going well for the north korean troops, willie. >> oh. >> when i heard they were importing north korean troops to help the russians -- >> that's terrible. >> -- when things weren't going well for the russians, i'm

thinking, okay, if they're not going well for the russians, are they going any better for north korean troops, going into kherson? >> this is terrible. >> when they're training in the hermit kingdom in preparation for trench world arfare of worl i, probably not a good sign. >> remember the invisible cell phones in the world cup? mm-hmm. four decades, "the economist" released the year-end issue, predicting the geopolitical trends and events of the upcoming year. >> yup. >> "the world ahead 2025" issue is out now, assessing what the global impact will be from donald trump's win, how democracies around the world will respond to the widespread losses of incumbent parties, and what surprises may be in store. joining us now, deputy editor at if the "the economist." editor of "the world ahead 2025"

issue. let's begin. >> tom, thank you so much for being with us. greatly appreciate it. >> great to be here again. >> i'll ask you a general question just about britain right now. we're going to get to what's ahead, but we've been talking this morning about the german government falling. the french government falling last week. looks like canada's government may fall. obviously, the biden/harris team lost. but in britain, you have a new labor party, but it's got off to such an absolutely miserable start based on conversations i've had with dozens of people in britain. what is the -- what's the political climate right now in britain and the economic climate, as well? >> well, the economic climate is quite gloomy. the government has promised to boost growth and, so far, growth

has actually proved to be weaker than expected. i don't think -- if you look at the other countries, the governments have been collapsing. this government has four years or so, four and a half, until it has to have another election. they've got some time to make some pretty unpopular changes. if you look across the world, we've seen in this unprecedented year of elections, incumbents have done bad everywhere. we've seen parties chucked out like in britain, in america. that means people have a lot of expectations now and going into 2025 about whether these knew leaders can deliver on what they promised. so far, not doing a good job of that and not seeming to be good at politics, which is strange. of course, the person who made the most promises about big, sweeping changes and shaking things up is donald trump in the u.s. there is a sort of commonality around the world, that people have voted for change. now, they're expecting it to happen. so far, in britain, we've been disappointed. >> okay, so let's get now to the

top trends. top ten trends to watch in 2025. number one, you just mentioned it, america's choice. of course, it's donald trump returning to the white house. you said it could lead to geopolitical reassignments. what is a second term for trump mean for the world? >> well, that's the whole problem, we don't exactly know. these are actually points three and four. don't know what it means for geopolitics, three, and economics, four. he's promised all sorts of things. he'll end the war in ukraine in a day. he seem to take a much more transactional approach to alliances. what does it mean for america's alliances in europe and asia? we don't know yet. on the economy, is he serious about the tariffs? are we having a trade war? it'd be bad for america and everyone else. it'd mean lower growth and higher prices in america. the tariffs are a sales tax on american consumers. it's not helping yourself from money from china. they're literally a sales tax on

american consumers. that risks reigniting inflation. of course, one of the things that voters around the world have been complaining about in 2024 is high prices and inflation. that's one of the reasons why donald trump got in. he said, "i will fix all of that. you'll see your food prices go down again." he's been back pedaling on that a bit, but the policies point in literally the opposite direction. >> tom, it's hard to have a conversation about the future or, frankly, the present, without thinking about the role of a.i. that's made one of your broader trends. that's a global issue. how do you see both tech leaders and world leaders grappling with it? >> i think there is an interesting thing going on with a.i. right now. there's enormous investment. something like $1.5 trillion in a.i. infrastructure between 2024 and 2027. yet, we're not really seeing the demand there from companies. 5% of companies, who you expect to lead the charge, say they're using a.i. might go up to 7% next year.

there is a weird disparity with the investors in technology and adoption by companies. maybe it'll take longer. maybe we need for the new agent-based systems. word of the year for 2025 already, agentic. you're not get agway from ting people saying that word. the other interesting thing, i think, if you look at surveys of employees rather than companies, you have higher numbers. 80% of programmers, 75% of hr people, and 30% of employees overall in america say they're using a.i. at least once a week. that suggests there's a lot of a.i. adoption going on, it's just in secret. people don't think their bosses will approve of what they're doing. that suggests there's actually a big cultural and management challenge for a.i. to overcome if it is going to be widely adopted and to justify the massive investments. i think it is a crunch year for a.i. in 2025.

if we don't see the a i doptiond traction in a formal way, the prices may be a bit overvalued. >> i'll resist using the word agentic as long as i can. >> yes. >> i'll try to make it all the way through 2025 without using that word. but i want to come back to the point number two. voters want change. that's obvious, right? the german government just fell. france is a mess. every place is a mess. canada, you know, deputy prime minister, chrystia freeland, quit yesterday. justin trudeau is in serious trouble. across the world, what do they want? do we know? politicians don't seem to know, but does "the economist" know what voters want? >> well, they want not this. they want change. what's interesting, incumbents have done badly regardless of their political orientation. this isn't a shift to the left or the right or towards or away from nationalism or greenery or anything like that.

it's just whatever -- whoever is in charge now, we don't like what they're doing. we want someone else. i think the thing that, you know, generally advanced economies all have in common has been inflation, higher interest rates s as a result and, therefore, a cost will e of living crisis in many countries. people blame governments and say, you need to do something different. that's, i think, one of the factors we've seen. there's also been a loss of faith in the political process generally. in traditional parties. that's contributed a bit to it, as well. i think the main thing has been, we blame the government for the fact that things cost more, and maybe some different people, you know, would sort that out. that is, i think, the main factor that has driven this enormous wave of voting for change. parties are chucked out all together. also, we've seen parties returned in countries like south africa and india with smaller

numbers, going into collision. . that's another factor. >> it's something when you look across the west and the most stable government, italy. >> okay. >> but it is. >> it is. >> "the economist's" "the world ahead 2025" issue is out now. deputy editor, thank you for coming on the show, we appreciate it. >> thank you, tom. national communications adviser john kirby will be our guest. we'll ask the admiral about the drone sightings gripping the nation. we'll get his assessments on that and much more. plus, we'll speak with democratic senator chris murphy in the wake of the school shooting in madison, wisconsin, and his growing calls for tougher gun safety laws. also ahead, former labor secretary robert rice will join the conversation to discuss how donald trump's billionaire allies are set to take the government by storm. we'll break down why this matters. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ yeah... i feel free ♪

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president-elect trump plans to permanently eliminate daylight savings time. people are divided. republicans don't want to go back an hour, while democrats want to go back four years. welcome back to "morning joe." it's a foggy tuesday, december 17th, in new york city. jonathan lemire still with us. joining the conversation, we have chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker, and columnist and member of the

editorial board at can financia financial times," julienne is back. >> christmas in new york is fantastic. >> of course. >> i've been telling everybody about my time over in london and other parts. i've got to say, the highlight, going to kings college in cambridge and listening to, really, the most beautiful christmas service i've heard. you told me it was like "harry potter." you undersold it. >> yeah. >> it was better. >> it's more like, i mean, what i do in half my time, i see kings cottage in cambridge, doing a service every christmas, and it's like the super bowl of choral christmas music. we have an enormous service, broadcast around the world. honored to have you for the precording of the television service. >> it was very good, moving.

again, one of the most remark k services i've ever been in, and the choir will end and you'll be like, that was the best thing. then it's like, bbc, bring it back! it was both a really moving service, but it was also a bbc production. again, they were piecing it all together. i guess they play it all day christmas day. >> pretty much on loop. if anyone has seen "love actually," that is britain at christmas, playing the music over and over again. heavens knows, in this time, we need something to lift the soul in every sense. >> i hear your solo was extraordinary. >> we'll see if it makes the final edit. >> i jumped up and started singing "wonderful christmas time." they didn't go along with "we three kings." >> you did not. >> what an image. let's get to the news. as donald trump prepares to return to the white house, he's now saying that a parade of big

tech ceos are seeking time with him ahead of his second term. in a news conference at mar-a-lago yesterday, trump pointed to a shift in tone he says he's hearing from top executives now versus back in 2016. >> this is one of the big differences, i think, between -- we were talking about it before -- one of the big differences between the first term. in the first term, everybody was fighting me. in this term, everybody wants to be my friend. i don't know. my personality changed or something. so, yeah, the biggest difference is that people want to get along with me this time. well, they've gone through four years. wasn't easy for me but wasn't easy for them either, and that's the great thing, getting along. it's a great thing. tim cook was here. i think he's done an incredible job at apple. he talked about the future of apple. it's going to be a bright future. we have many others. also, and not in that business,

we do have jeff bezos, amazon coming in, sometime during the week. look forward to that. we have a lot of great executives coming in, the top executives, the top bankers. they're all calling. honestly, in the first, i don't know what it was, it's like a complete opposite. in the first -- and the press has covered that fairly, actually, for a change. the first one, they were very hostile. maybe it was my fault, but i don't really think so. they were just right from the beginning. this one is much less hostile. it's really the opposite of hostile. >> you know, peter baker, i want you to sort through that, a lot of people are talking about. any ceo goes to see donald trump, they talk about kissing the ring or bending the knee. there's not a ceo that has seen him this time that i don't think didn't see him last time. we all remember seeing tim cook around the table in the white house the first term. you'd have jamie dimon. everybody else would go in.

you know, it's what they do. it's what they do if it's a democratic president, if it's a republican president. donald trump this term, donald trump last term. curious what your thoughts are, though, on what you heard yesterday from the press conference on donald trump regarding the fact that he says businesses are willing to work with him more this term than last term. >> well, look. you know, i think business leaders have understood over time that the way to stay on donald trump's good side is to flatter him, to pay homage to him, in effect. from their point of view, they're not politics. they're there to represent their shareholders and their boards and their companies' interests. it's in their company's interest to stay on his good side. we have seen donald trump, while republican in name, has been very willing to, you know, interfere in the marketplace in a way that's traditionally not laissez-faire conservative, free market politics. when he gets angry at a company,

an owner, he tries to declare winners and losers in the marketplace. we saw it when he tried to stop the time warner, you know, merger to punish cnn. we saw it time and again with jeff bezos when he tried to find ways to punish amazon through, you know, higher postal rates or taking away a pentagon cloud servicing contract. you know, he is not averse to using the power of the presidency to intervene in the marketplace against companies that get on his bad side. these guys don't want to be on his bad side. >> you know, willie, talking, again, to business leaders on both sides of the atlantic, they're just trying to figure out what the hell is going to happen. are the tariffs a bluff? is he going to move through with the tariffs? so there is, right now, so many questions over what donald trump

they're going to get on january 20th. everybody is scrambling. i say on both sides of the atlantic. i heard the same thing in london that i heard in new york with top business leaders on thursday. which is, we don't know what he is going to do. we're trying to figure it out. andrew ross sorkin was here yesterday, saying the fed is trying to figure it out, but they can't price in what will happen january 20th because they don't know. >> that's what i hear, too, is the tariff thing real or a bluff? a lot of them think it's a bluff. once people get around the table and say, this is bad for the economy, bad for the people who voted for you, raises their prices, maybe that'll put the brakes on some of that. jillian, you look at the ceos going down there. their job is not to participate in a political resistance against donald trump. their job is to make their company successful. they need the u.s. government. they need a read of donald trump and where things are going to do that. not surprising they're meeting with him, but what is your sense of what, not just american ceos, but the world is bracing for, is

prepared for, is expecting from a second term? >> well, here's what we do know. we do know that donald trump's election has unleashed astonishing animal spirits. by animal spirits, i'm referring to cannes, who argued when people feel widely optimistic and confident, that causes them to spend more, invest more, hire more, and you get this self-fulfilling cycle of growth. people can sense there is an explosion of the economy. relative to the other major trading partners, like europe or asia right now. so the ceos are acting like rational business people, saying we want to be part of that. we want to be part of the growth story. however, that's what we do know. but in reality, what will happen? what trump said about the economy is contradictory.

how is anyone going to resolve the contradictions? >> interesting. >> in your latest piece for "the financial times," it's titled, "the chain of contradictions in trump's economic policy." >> you write in part, quote, "what on earth will happen to u.s. economic policy when donald trump becomes president? that question is already sparking widespread concern. even the supposedly smart money seems unsure of the answer. the uncertainty partly reflects trump's erratic style and taste for brinksmanship. but it also highlighting something else, his recent policy pledges are riddled with contradictions. investors can only watch to see how these do or do not play out." >> a top wall street banker last week said, okay, this is how we think it's going to work. regulatory relief. >> no idea. >> it'll somehow offset the drag on the economy by the tariffs. he was trying to sort through

and explain to everybody how he thinks. but everybody is guessing. >> well, it's important to say that, actually, the trump team have a very different vision of economics and how it does or doesn't work from the orthodoxes we've had in the last few years. just to give a couple examples, it's been traditionally assumed that tariffs will strengthen the dollar. the dollar already has risen by about 6%, 7% in the last few weeks on the back of the expectations of higher growth. but if you have a stronger drawer, it'll be harder to cut the trade deficit, which donald trump says he's very worried about. and donald trump keeps saying he wants a weaker dollar. go figure. another example, he says he wants to slash the deficit of 6% of gdp to 3.5%, which is basically to stop america overspending. yet, he wants massive tax cuts. so maybe they are going to see a situation where much of the old economic orthodoxy is wrong, and strong growth, revenue from the tariffs that will make the sums add up. right now, even the smart money

is going, we just don't know what's going to happen. >> peter baker, the debate over tariffs is just one where trump says one thing, and there's a sense that perhaps, actually, he'll moderate and do something less when he takes office. another is mass deportations. this is an idea that maybe the numbers won't be nearly as big as he promised on the campaign trail. that's leading to infighting in trump world. it is not spelling out into view as publicly as it did the first time around, but the leaks are there. there's divide among the hard liners, the right wingers who, let's say on immigration, want him to deport 10, 15 more people, and others say, it's not possible. moderate voices, business leaders even saying that. take us behind the scenes and illuminate us on the fight within trump world, including how some of the hard liners, the true believers, fear they may be disappointed. >> yeah, i mean, look, first of all, the first time he ran, he talked about billing uilding th. stop the flow of the people

coming in the southwestern border. only built part of the wall. during biden's presidency, his policies did encourage or at least allow, you know, the influx of a lot of people that worked to president-elect trump's political benefit. here's the conundrum for trump. by the time he is taking office, the flow across the border has actually been minimized again. biden's policies that were changed over the summer brought the crossings down to where they were when trump left office. there's not a lot of progress for him to make in term of continuing to reduce the flow at the border beyond where he'd already done four years ago. he has to get rid of the people inside the country. that's how he sees it. 11 million people, it seems impractical to most people you're going to be able to deport them. in his entire four-year term, when trump was in office, as tough on immigration as he was, he deported fewer than a million people. that was smaller, lower than bush or obama did proportionly during their term. the fact you're getting to 11

million seems improkt actical te republicans inside trump world. the people who are idealogically committed point out he made this promise very explicitly, and if he doesn't produce, doesn't deliver, it'll be held against him. it's the central, signature promise they say he has to live up to. >> during his news conference yesterday, donald trump threatened media outlets and journalists, promising more lawsuits against the press. trump appeared more emboldened after abc settled a defamation lawsuit with the president-elect over the weekend. the network issued an apology and agreed to give $15 million towards trump's yet to be built presidential library. trump also mentioned other targets for legal action. including cbs news, journalist

bob woodward, and the people of iowa, for the ann seltzer poll which incorrectly predicted the presidential election. >> i feel i have to do this. i shouldn't really be the one to do it. it should have been the justice department or somebody else. but i have to do it. costs a lot of money to do it, but we have to straighten out the press. our press is very corrupt. almost as corrupt as our elections. >> so, willie, let's sort through this. first of all, on abc, bill gruskin, of course, journalist, professor, said abc shouldn't have folded, shouldn't have paid the $15 million. at the same time, he called the interview a, quote, train wreck. said it opened up abc to liability, so at least there was a case there that would allow trump's lawyers to open up

discovery, do the sort of things that nobody at abc, and none of the journalists would want, turning over, you know, cell phones, texts, emails, the sort of things that you see in some cases. so that is sitting right here. ann selzer, ann doesn't have to worry. "the des moines register," they don't have to worry. they're not going -- they will get get -- the trump team won't get past summary judgment. it'll be clown out.thrown out. cbs news for their edits, what they did in the edit bay on "60 minutes," doing what "60 minutes" whab has been doing fo like, 60 years, that's not getting past summary judgment. >> whatever show has been doing. >> that'll be thrown out. "new york times" is going to sit there and go, huh, boom, thrown out. they're all going to get thrown out.

there was, as bill gruskin and others said, there were mistakes made in that interview this allowed the process to go far enough for discovery to be opened up. would abc have won if they fought to the end? there are a lot of lawyers that think they would have. did abc want to put it behind them for a variety of reasons? yeah. but does that mean ann kelzer has to worry? no the sometimes, bob woodward and simon schuster? no. go down the line, make the threats, but the end of the day, we have a pretty, pretty strong first amendment. that ain't going to change in the next six months. >> yeah, i mean, perhaps donald trump and his team are together emboldened by abc fork over $15 million, but they should know these are all very, very different cases from the abc case. you laid out all the reasons for

that. defamation cases famously and notoriously difficult to prove. that's one thing that people should consider when we hear all this. also, john, you know, we've talked about ann selzer. she got a poll wrong and then retired. it's unclear what they're suing for, exactly. >> exactly. >> she conceded. she got it terribly wrong there. this does, though, appear to be about a larger campaign, perhaps to inti, to bring to heel media organizations, so they're not critical of donald trump. the message here, anything critical of me, we'll go after and sue. >> two things are true at once. as joe ticked through, the individual cases that trump is suing about now all seem like non-starters. but this is about also intimidating work going forward. the idea that reporters and journalists and institutions may not have $15 million laying around to pay. they may just try even to have a reporter think twice about writing something or tone down the tenor of the coverage,

gillian. it seems like this is not just about the past. this is more about the present and future. warning here to anyone who dares to criticize the administration. hey, at the very least, we'll make your life hard and expensive. >> absolutely. the irony is, the trump team keeps talking about freedom of speech, which implies they're against censorship, yet they're trying to create a climate of fear that creates self-censorship. they're trying to essentially bully the media into something careful what they say in advance. it very much mirrors what he is trying to do with other governments right now in terms of making these massive threats. trying to get them to cave and to offer up some kind of correction. we saw that with mexico, with the big raid on the fentanyl suppliers and traders. you'll see more and more of that. imagine the trump team is a bit like somebody confronting a bear on a mountain path. they're trying to make themselves as big as possible, growl enormously, and hope the bear goes away. that's what they're trying to do to what they regard as rivals

and enemies. >> i mean, peter baker, if you're "the new york times," you're that bear, you're not going away. you can say the same thing about other media outlets, too. again, they've tried this before. you know, the suit against "the new york times," the suit against cbs news, the suit against bob woodward, simon and schuster, those cases, don't you think at the end of the day, those will be thrown out of court? >> look, i'm not a lawyer, obviously, but you're right to say i think he is stretching the definition of what used to be legitimate law enforcements against media organizations who have gone too far. now, it's been reported he sent a letter to "the new york times" before the election, threatening another legal action regarding an article i wrote and articles some of my colleagues wrote. our lawyers will respond to that. not too worry ied about it. the point is exactly that, that he is trying to tie up media

organizations, make them think twice. remember, he sued tim o'brien, who used to work at "the new york times." wrote a very good biography of donald trump. tim o'brien reported in his book he wasn't worth as much as trump liked to believe he was worth. there was an entire lawsuit about this. it's hardly the kind of defamation you'd normally consider to be defamation, but whatever. it went through the courts. he didn't win. he later said he was glad he did it anyway because it cost tim o'brien money, time, suffering, all that kind of thing. that's part of the goal. he doesn't have to win in order to do it. the strategy isn't necessarily to win, but to put people on their heels and pay a lot of legal bills at times. that's not an inconsiderable thing for a lot of news organizations. "the new york times" has plenty for our lawyers, but there are a lot of news organizations that don't. >> gillian, "the financial times" isn't going to change their coverage because of a threat of a lawsuit, right? >> well, absolutely. we're going to carry on doing what we always do and trying to tell it as we see it. try to understand where the

money is going and who has got it and how that relates to the power. so, yeah, i think every single journalist right now is, in many ways, emboldened. the question really is, does donald trump want to make martyrs of the media world? in many ways, that would actually not serve him well at all. >> right. that goes for retribution in general. >> true. >> there are republicans who think donald trump was made a martyr because he sat at a department's defendant's bench, and it made him bigger in the eyes of the public. does he want to do that to those he doesn't like? i don't think it makes sense. >> chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker, thank you very much. columnist and member of the editorial board at "the financial times," gillian tett, thank you. always good to see you. great to have you back on. >> thank you. ahead on "morning joe," multiple federal agencies are weighing in on the reported drone sightings across the northeast, arguing they pose no threat. the white house national security communications adviser

john kirby joins us for more on that. >> and we may also ask about some side issues, like, ah, syria. >> that might be good. >> be right back. sofia vergara: in this family, we don't fight over the bill. we just take care of it. families never receive or food, so they can focus on helping their child live. because at st. jude, taking care of families facing childhood cancer is just what we do. this holiday season, join our st. jude family.

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and tons of savings. bring on the good stuff. xfinity. to report things they're seeing. if you see something, say something. this is really important, it

doesn't mean you're seeing something new. we have a whole lot of air activity, whether it's aircraft, whether it is commercially available drones being flown. just to give you some numbers, over the weekend, we had 120 odd 911 and 311 calls related to drone activity, which is more than we had the entire month of november. a lot of people are reporting to us. the amount of actual drones being detected by our teams and our software is roughly commensurate with what we always see. >> a top nypd counterterrorism official speaking with wnbc about the recent drone sightings across the northeast. yesterday, the department of homeland security, defense department, fbi, and federal aviation administration issued a joint statement which reads in part, "having closely examined the technical data and tips from

concerned citizens, we assess that the sightings to date include a combination of lawful commercial drones, hobbyist drones, and law enforcement drones, as well as manned, fixed wing aircraft. helicopters and stars mistakenly being reported as drones." joining us now -- >> and entire solar systems. >> milky way. >> o'ryan's belt. >> they seem to be moving. >> white house national security communications adviser and assistant to the president, retired rear admiral john kirby. so we're good with the drones? >> look, we've still got about 100 leads that the fbi is following up on, so the investigation is ongoing. we'll see where it takes us. i promise we'll be as open and transparent as what we learn as we can be. the purpose for that statement last night was to lay down what we have learned in the last week or so with additional detection

techniques and capabilities sent up to the region, as well as additional visual observers that the department of homeland security put on the ground up there. again, everything we're seeing to sate date tells us this is n, legal, lawful aircraft activity, manned or unmanned. >> how do you account for the sightings and 911 calls? what is going on here? is it, by your calculation, what we heard from the nypd right there, which is it's actually based on their detection systems, it's the same number of drones or aircraft that are usually in the sky over new jersey or near new york city? is that your sense of things, too? >> i think it's a couple things, willie. first of all, there is an awful lot of unmanned aerial systems flying in u.s. air space on any given day. thousands and thousands. the northeast corridor is one of the busiest areas of the country for that find of activity. that's number one. number two, look, as this has become more of a story and more of an interest item to people,

understandably so, more people are then going out with their phones and looking skyward and reporting stuff. oftentimes, you'll get 12 sightings for a single aircraft once we're able to corroborate all the information. there's just a lot more people looking right now. you know, in the wintertime, there's more nighttime sky to look at. i think it is also report to remember that many of the sightings you're seeing, the videos, images, you're seeing lights on the aircraft, but that's exactly what they're supposed to be doing. flying with lights. it demonstrates what they are, who they are, what altitude they're flying at. again, reinforces the idea that they're flying legally and safely. >> it's not just people from jersey in their backwards with cameras. we had a sitting member of congress, a republican from new jersey, say he had heard, said this on national television, that there was an iranian mothership that launched a bunch of drones. do you have reason to believe there's foreign action here by

any adversarial country ? >> no, sir. we've looked at this very, very hard, the department of defense and the coast guard with additional resources. they checked the rumor out to make sure it wasn't happening. of course, it wasn't. there was no truth to that. again, we've seen nothing, nothing in the information we collected, that leads us to believe there is a national security threat posed by these sightings. that doesn't mean there aren't still sightings other military bases here at home and overseas, and we take that seriously. that's separate and distinct from the immense amount of sightings we've been seeing along the northeast corridor the last few days. >> what happens if a drone wanders over a military site that has sensitive information? >> the defense department has the authorities to defend their installations, to look after the security of their people. you know, we have ways that we can deal with that. >> can you shoot it down?

>> i want to stress, though, joe, that there's gaps and seams in our authorities writ large. we really need congress to act. the president is calling for a bipartisan commission to take a look at this. we've proposed legislation. it's gone nowhere on capitol hill. but there are additional authorities we need. >> what about, is it a crime? for instance, you know, i grew up in a district that had five military bases, and one of those bases, they experimented with new weapon systems. should be a crime, i would think, for somebody to fly a drone over that military base. do you know of any laws that make it a crime to do that? >> it is a federal offense, and -- >> good. >> -- i think as you know, there have been legal action taken against some actors, including a foreign actor in one case, who attempted to do that, to take imagery flying over a military base. yes, it is a crime and can be dealt with. >> all right. you're saying right now, you

guys are staying on top of this. you don't see any foreign interference. no interference from occupants of interplanetary crafts. good, good, check, check, check. let's go to syria now. obviously, there is a massive vaccine in uum in syria. what is the united states' position right now on what needs to be done in the region? >> two things we're keenly focused on. first is, of course, maintaining a presence in eastern syria to go after isis. isis loves a vacuum. we have seen that in the past. they love nothing better than ungoverned space so they can try to revitalize and reconstitute themselves. and we have been seeing additional isis activity in syria since the events of a week or so ago when assad left. so we want to take that presence on the ground. we want to take keep that partnp with the force to keep the mission. the command in charge of the

middle east took additional strikes yesterday against isis targets. this is an active, very much an active set of events here and a mission we're on. the second thing we're focused on, joe, is working with the international community as well as the opposition groups inside syria to make sure we can see a peaceful transition to some form of governance that meets the aspirations of the syrian people. we believe it's not only in our national security interest that isis can't reconstitute, but it is in our national security interest that syria becomes sovereign, stable, and secure, and not pose a threat to its neighbors going forward. we're work really, really hard on the diplomatic front to make sure all the countries concerned, as well as the opposition groups, are moving in the right direction and trying to meet those aspirations of the syrian people. >> admiral, good morning. want to get the white house's assessment on russia's presence in syria. obviously a deep relationship for a long time. assad sought refuge now in moscow.

conflicting reports on the status of russian bases there, including a naval facility. it's one warm weather naval facility. what is your sense there as to whether russia is going to be able to maintain that active military presence in syria? >> i think it is an open question. i mean, obviously, the russians need to speak to their military operations and what they want to do or not do. but i think it is very much an open question. they were there for two reasons. one was to prop up assad and make it easier for him to commit atrocities on his own people. two, to maintain a presence in the eastern mediterranean and the middle east. they had a naval pace there, and they have an air base a little further inland. some other smaller camps and facilities. those are the two by ig ones. they wanted a presence in the eastern med. i think they want presence, jonathan. the information we're getting is they'd like to stay. but they have also, given the uncertainty, we have seen them remove some of their forces and some of their resources out of

the region. again, because it's a little uncertain and they want to make sure they have at least a force protection for what is left. it'll remain to be seen what the traditional government decides to do about foreign military presence in the country, particularly about what they do with the russians. >> white house national security communications adviser to the president, retired rear admiral john kirby, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. coming up, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut is our guest. we'll ask him what he's hearing about support for some of donald trump's more controversial cabinet picks. also ahead, we'll go through the long roster of billionaires that will be working in the trump administration and the impact that could have on policies over the next four year. "morning joe" is back in just a moment. then we learned about bulkamid. an fda approved non-drug solution for our condition. it really works, and it lasts for years.

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police in madison, wisconsin, are expected to give an update on the shooting at a private christian school. the shooter is identified as a 15-year-old female student. a teacher and student were killed during study hall. six others were injured. police say the shooter also died yesterday. investigators working to determine the motive. joining us now, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. senator murphy helped lead the effort to pass the bipartisan safer communities act in 2022

following the school shooting massacre in uvalde, texas. it was the first significant piece of federal gun safety legislation in 30 years. the senator, of course, began to push for those reforms back in 2012 after the sandy hook elementary school shooting in connecticut, when he was a congressman representing that district. senator, thanks for being with us. we noted earlier the shooting in madison took place 12 years after the sandy hook shooting. that terrible, terrible anniversary was on saturday. your thoughts here. the facts, the details change a bit. it's a young woman in this case, a handgun, not an ar-style rifle. but if you look at the facts that we have right now, what more could be done here and can be done more broadly to stop these awful cases? >> obviously, this is an awful time of year in connecticut. those families in newtown are reliving that horror as we speak. those empty seats at the holiday

table are just devastating. and when i think about these school shootings, you know, i think much more broadly than the number of people who were shot or killed. the reality is, our kids who are exposed to this violence, the kids who fear for their life when they walk to school in dangerous neighborhoods like the one i live close to in hartford, connecticut. the kids who have gone through an active shooter incident like this one in wisconsin, their lives are changed forever. we're losing a generation of kids because, you know, literally, your brain chemistry changes when you are exposed to that level of violence or when you live in a dangerous neighborhood and are exposed to it every day. it's not a coincidence the underperforming schools in the country tend to be in the violent neighborhoods. so we've got to understand the scope of damage that we are doing to our kids is absolutely enormous. that being said, there is some reason for hope at the end of this year. we're not going to rest until there is not a single school

shooting in this country. but mass shootings this year in america are down by over 20%. urban homicides are down by over 20%. those are absolutely extraordinary declines, and that is, in part, due to the fact that we passed in 2022 the most significant anti-gun violence bill in 30 years. you are starting to see the impact of that bill. what we've shown is that when we get serious about changing the laws of this country, just make it a little harder, let's say for kids in crisis to get their hands on a powerful weapon, that we can have an impact. we just have to, you know, go back next year at the state level and at the federal level and try to double down on the progress we made in 2022. >> as we said many times on this show, the answer, the attitude from our country after the school shootings can't be to throw up it collective hands and say, what can we do? what are we going to do? you haven't done that. it's important to underline that because there is sort of a defeatism in some ways when people see this on the news. it's terrible.

their heartbreaks. it's awful. they think about their own children, their own schools, teachers and loved ones, and then they move on. there will be another one in a couple weeks. can you speak to remind people of what you were all able to do a couple years ago and why that has, in fact, had an impact here? >> one of the things we did in that bill was to make it harder for young people. unfortunately, it does tend to be young men, 18, 19, 20 years old who engage in these shootings. that bill put an enhanced background check on young buyers of rifles. you still can't buy a pistol in this country if you're under 21, but you could be uy an ar-15. we're more careful about selling those guns to young people. there are stories where law enforcement actually stopped young people, mostly young men, in crisis from buying a weapon that they maybe were going to use in a mass shooting.

we eliminated the boyfriend loophole. if you beat up your girlfriend, you could keep your weapons. if you beat up your wife and were convicted of domestic violence, you lost access to weapons. that's protecting millions of abused women all across this country. and we are doing a lot more background checks now. the law said that anybody who is engaged in the commercial sale of weapons, even if you don't have a bricks and mortar store, has to perform background checks. there's a lot fewer criminals who are getting their hands on guns. a lot fewer people in mental health crisis getting their hands on guns because we're doing a lot more background checks. that's all good news. listen, it's not universal background checks. it's not a ban on assault weapons. but this mythology that the gun industry proffered for years, that the way we make ourselves safer is by putting more guns into our community isn't true. we have proved our theory, that if you're a little bit smarter about our gun laws, you can make a big difference. that's good news. >> well, i want to ask you now about president-elect trump's cabinet picks or potential

nominations so far and get your insight and potentially what you're hearing from your republican counterparts in reaction to the choice of pete hegseth, tulsi gabbard, and also the nomination potential of kash patel for fbi. >> i mean, it's heartbreaking to think that there aren't three or four republicans who are willing to go to president trump and tell him that there is someone else in this country who is more qualified to run the department of defense than pete hegseth. i think they will rue the day that they put pam bondi in as attorney general and kash patel as director of the fbi. they have essentially signalled the end of independent federal law enforcement. over the next four year, that may end up in the targeting of democrats, targeting of media that's friendly to democrats. but once law enforcement isn't independent, it's hard to put

that genie back in the bottle. some day down the line, it could hurt republicans when a democrat decides to use the federal law enforcement agencies to target republicans. none of us should want that. i think republicans don't understand the long-term damage that's going to be done by somebody like kash patel in charge of the fbi. listen, we'll see. there only needs to be three or four republicans to stand up against hegseth or patel or others, but right now, it seems as if donald trump has been pretty successful in threatening, politically threatening republicans into supporting all of his nominees. there's still plenty of time to go, probably plenty of new revelations to come out about these nominees. i'm not giving up, and the country shouldn't give up. >> democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, thank you very much for coming on this morning. >> thank you. >> we appreciate it. up next, we'll dive into a new "atlantic" piece that breaks down how democrats lost their way on immigration. former homeland security secretary jeh johnson is

standing by with his analysis and what he thinks has changed within the party. also ahead, tony award winning actor james monroe iglehart plays louie armstrong in a new film. we'll talk to him about portraying the iconic musician. when you live with diabetes, progress is... having your coffee like you like it without an audience. ♪♪ [silence] the freestyle libre 3 plus sensor tracks your glucose in real time so everyone else doesn't have to, and over time it can help lower your a1c confident choices for more control of your life. this is progress. learn more and try for free at freestylelibre.us ♪♪ the itch and rash of moderate to severe eczema disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control.

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new york jets great sam darn uld to extend the minnesota vikings lead. running backs aaron jones making a one-yard touchdown with a spot in the playoffs already secured and the vikings now move into a first place tie with the detroit lions in the nfc north after the lions lost to the

bills last night. >> sam darnald. >> put that back up again. anyone of these three teams can win. the packers looking really good, and the lions, of course, everybody loves the lions. we loved the lions for a long time. but they are getting hurt. >> yeah. >> montgomery is out now. that ads up. >> sam only starting because their last pick, they will have a real decision to make at the end of the season. perhaps it could be the new york

giants. >> perhaps escape the netherlands. bad game in las vegas last night. >> the falcons did just enough to beat the raters, ending a four-game-ending streak and keeping pace somehow with the tampa bay buccaneers. >> yeah, and kurt cousins started the season pretty well and had new weapons like passing the ball around and moving it around effectively and the last four games losses and last night not really inspiring either, jonathan, and they managed to win, but the buccaneers -- i can't believe i'm saying this about any team, and it's just a hearted division top to bottom, and baker mayfield is starting to get hot. looks like if they keep moving

that way, they may win the south. >> hung up 40 on a pretty good chargers' defense. i will say, joe, looking at schedules again, the falcons have a light close to the finish and they have games against the giants and panthers. >> we were talking a minute ago, the chiefs were 13-1. they play saturday this week, and then they play wednesday on christmas day. i think 11 days they play, and they have been playing with fire all season and they catch up to them here. >> you said patrick mahomes, the last two games, let him get healthy and give up home advantage to the bills. >> yeah, maybe they wanted to play on christmas, the league would like that. they have a two-game lead on the bills, so it would take a real collapse. they need one more win here. they proved last year in the playoffs, they can win on the road.

>> turning back to politics and donald trump's wide-ranging news conference from mar-a-lago yesterday, including the president-elect's new warning for senate republicans opposed to his cabinet picks. "morning joe" will be right back. of love, we've spent a lifetime crafting them. harry & david, 90 years and still sharing. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. if you're over 50, talk to michael strahan: i've been a part of the st. jude family for years. and i never thought i'd hear the words, "your child has cancer." well, my 18-year-old daughter was diagnosed with

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christmas is just nine days away and everybody is in the spirit, and tonight i was admiring all the lights and i realized it was the drones over new jersey. >> and one official gave permission to down one of the unmanned drones, and he wants local police to shoot at anything in the sky in december. santa, i hope you have a cav alawyer sphraeu.

we will have more on the story as we continue to learn nothing about it. the government knows what is happening. look, our military knows where they took off from. if it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. they know where it came from and where it went, and for some reason they don't want to comment and i think they would be better off what it is, and our military and president knows and for some reason they want to keep people in suspense. i can't imagine it was the enemy, because if it was the enemy they would blast it out, and something strange is going on because they don't want to tell the people and they should. >> donald trump yesterday not exactly tamping down concern about the possible drone sightings across several states and we will go through what agencies are saying about the sightings and if they are a

security risk. the president-elect also addressed the pressure campaign on republican senators to get his cabinet picks confirmed. we will play for you those comments. it comes as his controversial choice to lead the department of health and human services, robert f. kennedy jr. will be back on capitol hill today to answer questions about his long history of vaccine skepticism. we will go through the reporting on the man escorting pete hegseth around capitol hill for weeks and his bid to clinch the nomination for secretary of defense. >> willie, is this true? >> i just said -- >> deon going to the giants. >> what could be true is shaw tkpwaour sanders. >> man, what a spectacle that would be. >> i don't know, stranger things

have happened. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's tuesday, december 17th. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," not for long, jonathan lemire. you are not counting the days, are you? >> this is my last week doing it, but i am not banking on sleeping early. >> and joining us, eugene robinson, and on set in new york, former democratic congressman, tim ryan of ohio joins us. good to have you onboard. >> i am curious. so lemire's last run, is this more -- >> lemire's last run. cute. >> is this like johnny carson, and letterman, there was that,

and it's like dr. j -- >> i think it's larry bird's season, right? >> well, his career ended with a bad back. >> but, you are going on to play. >> i asked for the foo fighters to play me out like letterman. all right, let's get to the news. you have been great and we look forward to you in your new iteration. >> thank you, guys. appreciate it. we begin this morning with president-elect trump's warning about the cabinet nominations in a wide ranging press conference yesterday. here is what he said. >> senators who oppose your cabinet nominees, should they be pry

primaried? >> i will give you a different answer, and a answer you will be shocked to hear. if they are unreasonable and opposing somebody for political reasons or stupid reasons, i would say it has nothing to do with me, and i would say they actually would be pry -- prypri. >> i think we have a great group of people. >> a lot of the republican senators saying the pressure campaign, not really going to work. in fact, it may be backfiring. press conference, very interesting. he said if they are unreasonable and personal, then i could see them being pry married, but if they are reasonable and don't like their views or something like that, i can see that. with that comes, again, just background. first of all, remember gaetz

going down and people around trump saying, wow, we really traded up with pam bondi and we actually got a better deal out of it, and the facts around pete, and actual tulsi gabbard, again, she just did terribly last week, and not up to doing the interviews in a way that gave confidence to republican senators that wanted to support her, so there are at least two picks right there that i have a feeling if they go by the wayside he won't be too upset. he does want rfk jr. from what we hear, but these two, i am not sure that was a tip to the senate going if you have good

reasons to not take those two, we understand. >> yet it came two days after he took great pains to be seen with them, and he took them to the army and navy game which he would not have done if he was casting them aside. and from republicans to donald trump and his team, look, there are conservatives, there are republicans and there are people who will be loyal to you who are not pete hegseth or tulsi gabbard, i think that's what they are saying, we have other ideas of people that could be in those jobs. tim, as congressman you served with a lot of these people, and how far can donald push these members? how far can he push them to say

you will do what i say, or else. do you think they are willing to cross him on hegseth or tulsi gabbard? >> well, there's still guardrails and to joe's point, some say these guys aren't up to the job and we will do that quietly and give you everything else you want, and i think that's how it will play out. with pete, he wouldn't last a week in the pentagon. >> you look at his lack of experience, and that's a job -- you and i could do most jobs. >> i don't want that job. >> i remember chris lake called me up and said i may take the cnn job, and i said -- i said

this, there are two jobs in america you don't want, the cnn job because of the bureaucracy, and the pentagon. i said that, like, three years ago, but the pentagon is even harder, the bureaucracy will swallow you up whole until you really have been walking those corridors for years. you know, served on that committee for four terms -- >> and even then. >> yeah, the weapon systems and the training and the tanks and bullets and satellites, the bureaucrats, the cyber security -- >> the housing and benefits. >> yeah, wild. he's not up to the task. if you want to reform the pentagon, you are exactly right, you better get somebody that known the pentagon. >> exactly right. "the new york times" has information on the man escorting

pete hegseth around capitol hill, and he was a former master sergeant that left the military after attacking a civilian during a training exercise back in 2019. this is the guy who escorting hegseth around capitol hill now. >> and senators officers. >> witnesses said he beat the civilian role player who is a former member of the iraq's elite counter service, and he was kicking him and punching him and left him in a pool of his own blood. according to memos and statements by company employees about the episode. the army charged him with aggravated assault and reckless endangerment, and a military

jury found him guilty in 2020, but the judge overseeing the case declared a mistrial after learning a trend of hasenbein had been talking to a juror throughout the trial. he was honorably retired after 22 years of service. that's all you need to know. >> if i am not mistaken, he was given the choice of being retried or leaving, and i think that's how it happened. you know, it's beyond -- beyond telling, jonathan lemire, when his nomination is already on life support that he brings a guy like this, that has been charged with this by the united states military. that's the thing. the united states military of

beating the hell out of somebody in a military exercise and being charged for it. a guy who is a u.s. citizen now being charged for it and he has no better judgment than that. this is who he is. this is who he has been. he went time and time again to donald trump and try to get people that were charged in the military for abusive behavior, and he became champions of abusers. >> yeah, that's the important context here. that's how he got on donald trump's radar to begin with, he would defend members of the military accused of misconduct, and he was successful with some of them, and some say this is a sign of loyalty sticking with his guys, and this is what he is going to bring to the pentagon, defend those that served their

country. >> there are a lot of people that served the country and who in the military exercises, and they don't kick the hell out of somebody, and they don't leave them in a pool of blood. there's a lot of people -- a lot of honorable men and women that serve in the military that could have been escorting him around like that, but some say he's constantly got to prove a point. >> yeah, every bit of that is right. he had other options and he had a deliberate choice, a signal he's sending in part because i am told he thinks donald trump respect that, double down and don't give an inch and we will see if that plays out in the confirmation, and there's questions about hegseth's conduct, and trump is still

supporting this pick and took him to the army and navy game, as you noted. he has not personally said, hegseth, that's my guy. >> they think more things are coming out. >> there's a expectation. there's still a few votes short. >> although senators are saying -- >> this was not it? >> all these senators were saying, why do i have to say anything when gravity is going to do all my work for me. that's why when you hear them say, let's let the process play out and wait and we will see the process play out, that means, yeah, we will just sit there and watch him and watch the gravity pull him through with the weight of more things coming out. >> joe, jackie, you obviously cover these members ever day. what is your sense of how or how not this evolved? there was great skepticism weeks ago around pete hegseth that he

was doomed, and a tone shift like senator ernst last week. >> i think the waoeut and it an posture, wait until we get closer to the process and keep quiet until then is the strategy most senators are currently going with, and staffers and members that we spoke to were critical, and some said she over shot her influence and going on fox news and getting ahead of herself and saying she was not to support hegseth in a pretty public way sort of triggering this public criticism and full-court press on her, and then four days later backtracking on it in a way that sort of damages her credibility and also her standing in trump

world. you are seeing the rest of the senators now learning a very different lesson from her actions. we have seen a slight win for some republican senators. tom fox successfully was one of the people that lobbied trump to step down from considering fox-kennedy who was being proposed to be the cia number two, the deputy to john radcliff, and after some private conversations and concerns raised with trump directly about kennedy's past comments and statements and beliefs about the cia, trump ultimately decided he would not consider her anymore and this was done in a stealth way behind closed doors, cotton along with other republican senators had a very idealic type

of approach, and they communicated those concerns and was successful in that lobbying, and this is the approach we will see going forward because so far you have not seen many specific criticisms of people that have similar to those of tulsi gabbard. >> yeah, and everybody has taken let's wait and see. we don't need to have people screaming at us and our staff members over the christmas holidays saying we are not going to support the trump pick, and let's let the fbi investigations and let's let the furthered newspaper investigations take its course. you will see people like -- probably people like march could you 63, and maybe collins, and

they are doing what they likely do, especially on hegseth and -- especially on hegseth and gabbards. what was so interesting yesterday and what donald trump said at the end of the statement we played, which is, you know, if you disagree with him, you disagree with their policies, if you disagree with them personally for those positions, i get it, which is sort of, i think -- >> some space. >> it's extraordinarily telling and a lot of space and a lot different than what all the outside groups are doing to try and make money on this. >> yeah, donald trump is not going to the for these nominees, not for hegseth or gabbard, and maybe he is for jfk

jr., and i think he will get him through. pete hegseth is in no way qualified to be secretary of defense, and that is just -- i don't -- i think those senators that you mentioned and probably others really can't get past that. i am not sure they could get past the fact of this guy walking around with him who was court-martialed for that horrific incident. look, the world is on fire. the u.s. has forces around the globe and is constantly moving resources and people here and there trying to put out the flare ups of these fires as best it can to keep our people as best we can out of harm's way while, you know, while

fulfilling missions. that's enormously complicated. it takes somebody who really knows the military inside out, who knows the pentagon inside out and who knows what levers to push and pull, and hegseth has none of that. it would just be madness to have somebody like that running the defense department now. it's just not -- not acceptable. then, of course, tulsi gabbard presents a whole new different set of issues around the question of loyalty, frankly. >> yeah, loyalty, to syria loyalty, to russia, i mean, loyalty, it's really, really bizarre. again, with pete hegseth, as we said, not qualified and yet still doing things. >> yeah. >> even yesterday where he gets a guy who is charged, and we went through the details, just beating the hell out of somebody who was there to help them on

the exercise and then the case thrown out on a technicality, and the facts are still there and hegseth knows it and, i guess, wants to prove a point -- >> put it in your face. >> he can champion people accused of abusing others in the pentagon. still ahead on "morning joe," what we are learning about a private school shooting in wisconsin that left a teacher and student dead and several others injured. we will get a live report from madison, next. plus, we will hear from tim ryan on where he thinks the dnc headquarters should be moved to. it's a hint, where he's from. we're back in 90 seconds. n 90 ss that is taken once every 8 weeks and can also be taken conveniently at home. fasenra helps prevent asthma attacks. most patients did not have an attack in the first year. fasenra is proven to help you breathe better so you can get back to doing

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results and experiences may vary. police have identified a shooter at a private school in wisconsin as a 15-year-old female student. two people were killed, a student and a teacher, and six others were injured after that female student opened fire yesterday. officials say the shooter was also killed. >> a second grade student called 911 to report a shooting had occurred at the school. let that soak in for a minute. a second grade student called 911 at 10:57 a.m. to report a shooting at school. >> nbc news correspondent, kathy

park, joins us live from madison. what is the latest officials are telling you there this morning about what happened? >> reporter: mika, good morning to you. abundant life christian school is a small christian school here in madison with roughly 420 students k through 12 and it now has turned into a crime scene, and they were days away from being released for christmas break. as you mentioned, the shooter came in yesterday morning killing a student as well as a teacher, injuring six others. as of this morning we know two are still in critical condition. the 15-year-old shooter was a student and according to authorities died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound as she was being transported to the hospital. we do know a handgun was recovered. the shooting happened in an isolated part of the school. we are told it was in a classroom during study hall. there were students of all grades at the time. as you heard the police chief

say, a second grader called 911 reporting this emergency, this active shooter yesterday morning. we do know that the investigation is still in its infancy, preliminary stages at this point. authorities were at the shooter's home yesterday. we know there was a huge law enforcement presence and they were collecting evidence but they did not say what they were able to pull from that house. we do know that the parents of the shooter, they are cooperating with the investigation. there's also a document related to the shooting that is circulating online. that is also being processed at this time, and still so many questions about the motive. we still don't know what the motive is at this point, but we do know there will be another update for the media and the public later on this afternoon. mika? >> kathy park in madison, wisconsin, thank you. willie, the timing, of

course, there's never good timing for this and this does bring back haunting members of 12 years ago, sandy hook, the last friday before the kids were supposed to go home for their christmas holidays, and just the tragedy there. you know, in those years, a big belief that that horror would finely lead to safe gun laws that 90% of america supported, 80% and 70% on several issues. we had small gains forward a few years ago but just not enough. >> yeah, the anniversary actually was on saturday, 12 years since the sandy hook school shooting. i live not too far from there and every time i drive past i have to stop and pull over and think about what happened on that day. according to police, in this case it was a handgun, and it was a girl which was unusual, and usually it's a male with an

ar-15 style rifle, and we don't know the motive or how she got the gun. there's a movement to hold -- i am not suggesting in this case because we don't know, to hold parents accountable and some have been prosecuted for providing weapons or not reporting anything about their child. last year in nashville, there was a school, a horrific cene. in the words of one ukrainian commander, the inexperienced fighters make for easy targets. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." ask your provider for me, cologuard.

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♪♪ time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. the german government has collapsed. chancellor scholz lost a

confidence vote in parliament yesterday putting the economy under a care government until snap elections in february. >> we hardly knew ye. we have germany, and france, and o, canada -- >> what is going on? >> western governments, man, are really having a huge challenge right now. >> as joe mentioned, the government of france broke apart earlier this month, and both countries struggling to revive their economies and social divides and geopolitical pressures. a lot going on. and battle tested ukrainian forces are taking out waves of north korean troops sent into battle by the kremlin. >> anybody surprised here? >> no hands raised. >> ukraine says the

inexperienced fighters make for easy targets, and soldiers described waves of what appeared to be north korean troops flooding the battlefields in full view of ukrainian drones and other weaponry in recent days. >> the russians said, hey, wonder out into that open field. >> yeah, see what you can find. >> it will be fine. >> yeah, you will love it. we did it last week. also, here at home, aoc, the powerful policy committee recommended congressman gerry connolly of virginia, instead, and while that panel wields strong influence over the party, the results are not final until the full caucus meeting today. and then coming up, that

conversation just ahead on "morning joe." ." vive cancer. and globally, the number is even higher. please join our st. jude family. please donate now.

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♪♪ let's talk big picture democratic party post election, and all this talk about soul searching, what we have to change. i will read from your piece in "newsweek." it's entitled dna should move d.c. headquarters to youngstown, ohio. you have been talking about what happened on election day for ten years or so and you come on the show and say we are losing these people and we need to work harder to keep these people and now that a lot of democrats have woken up to what you have been saying for a while, what now? >> i say that a little tongue

and cheek to move the headquarters to youngstown, ohio, and it's a factory found and they are gritty, and we created a coaching town, and we created the culture of how are you gritty, and how do you lead and how are you disciplined and how do you have straight talk, like, honest conversations with people so your team trust you and i think democrats have lost that trust, so i say youngstown, and it could be flint, detroit, milwaukee, pittsburgh, it doesn't matter, it just can't be in freakin' washington, d.c. how many times are we going to talk to ourselves about something that is irrelevant to that person in youngstown, ohio, who comes out of the culture, the economic anxiety and all that. it can't be in washington, d.c. i think it would be a very good strategic move, and as i say in the piece, to have the workers there, have the high overpaid

consultants go to a place like youngstown, watch sports, you know, and be in the community, eat dinner, great italian food. they are going to eat well. go there and just listen. don't be on twitter. don't tell them what you think. nobody cares what you think. listen. two ears, one mouth. you listen, just like we were raised. if we do that, we will begin to shift the culture of the party. >> congressman, youngstown is a great example, because i think decades ago, i guess the big employer there was probably republic steel. i remember when i was in college i had a friend whose dad grew up in youngstown and his dad worked for republic steel, you know, and so it's one thing to listen and to play botchi, but what should the message be for a

place like youngstown, ohio? what should democrats be saying they intend to do or they want to do to make peoples' lives better there? >> we have got to become the party of reform. period. end of story. everything needs to fit under that. everybody knows that the government is broken. everybody knows the economy is not working for them, eugene, whether you are white, black, brown, male, female, whether you work in manufacturing or retail, you know that we blow way too much money on health care. you know we are spending billions on education and yet we are not getting the skill set we need to dominate the new economy. we know affordability around energy is not where it needs to be. we know these communities need rebuilt. these downtowns are empty. the rivers are dirty. we need a huge reform agenda and i think that's where we dropped the ball and gave trump that lane on reform. >> that brings us to our next

conversation. how the richest person on the planet is pushing to cut programs for some of the poorest people in america. former labor of secretary is unpacking elon musk's plan for slashing spending when "morning joe" comes right back.

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welcome back. january tends to bring an influx of eager job seekers. a new study is revealing fascinating gender differences and how men and women showcase their skills on linked in, and that could be hindering women's career opportunities. here to discuss, megan mcgrath, and uma be abedin.

>> there was a random sample of 13 million linked in profiles, that's a lot, and he found men are more likely to emphasize leadership traits while women are more likely to show other skills, and men say they are good at team leadership while women are more likely to say they are good at power point, time management and event planning, and unless you think he accidentally got a bunch of event planners in the study, he controlled for occupation and skill in a company, and you are seeing this gap. >> it's like chicken or eggs, though? are women given these roles and that's why they put that. >> there's no data to really show why the gender gap exists,

but there is suggestions within the data that women are not great at self promotion, that men -- >> women, know your value. >> i was about to say, this is all about knowing one's value and being able to talk about your skills and leadership, and your ability to promote yourself and it does not exist. one of the things we were talking about is including the glassdoor ratings, the places where there's more of a leadership ability for women is environments where there's work/life balance, and that's where there are as many women leaders as men in the workplace, and maybe that's -- we need to be encouraging more environments like that around the country and learn how to advocate for ourselves. >> and for the companies that are not as aggressive or forward-moving in terms of having flexibility for moms and for families. if that doesn't exist, you want to create that space. be incredibly valuable and be aggressive about asking for what you need.

if you are valuable, they will make it work for you and you will set a precedent for the rest of the company. know your value is not just about the money. >> and needing the shed the reluctance. >> exactly. maggie, how did the gender gap enlisting leadership skills vary around the country senator there are interesting regional differences here, and they point to states where there's a higher degree of social conservativism or gender roles, so the divide on how men and women present themselves is liberal than in liberal states. in utah, men are 43% more likely than women to post leadership skills to linkedin, and then the gap narrows from 11 to 13%. >> right, so what do you think the big takeaway for women here

is in terms of applying for new jobs? >> in 2024 our professional profiles are our digital profiles and the fact that we don't pay attention to things like promoting yourself -- in the old days, you bought a nice blazer and went in for your first job interview, and now your first job interview is what people see on your linkedin page. >> can i add my own thoughts here? >> yeah. >> i feel your social media presence, if there is one, if you have one, if you are public, make sure that reflects what you want your bosses or future bosses or colleagues to see, you know, because that could break or break -- i have seen that in my own sphere of hiring younger employees, that social media presence can make or break. >> it really can. >> thank you both very much. always good to have the team together. up next, we will have more

on donald trump's wide-ranging comments yesterday to reporters at mar-a-lago. plus, we will look at the long list of billionaires working in the next administration and how they could shape trump's second term. keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ woah, limu! we're in a parade. everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. and you have this dream every night? yeah, every night! hmm... i see. (limu squawks) only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

a few minutes before the top of the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. we begin in new york where the times union reports on the unsafe staffing levels across health care facilities upstate temperature according to a new report by the fiscal policy institute, about 90% of health care shifts in that area are understaffed and pose a risk to patients' safety. burnout culture stemming from the coronavirus pandemic and

excessive patient loads have contributed to the high staffing turnover rate. in florida, the "miami herald" has a feature on condos and hotels sinking, and according to a study published, many have sunk by at least three inches between 2016 and 2023. over in michigan, "the chronicle" is highlighting the development of a new medical device that can detect diseases in the human body. scientists have bio met klee engineered a pill-shaped internal implant that may be able to detect and diagnose diseases involving the immune system. like certain cancers and ms. and in iowa, the gazette is looking at one city's method to

remove ice from roads this winter. the city of marion will use a molasses and calcium chloride salt mixture to melt ice from sidewalks and city roads. public officials say the molasses mixture is an environmentally friendly option that will allow salt to stick to roadways and activate cold temperatures, and road salt has been blamed for increased alkaline levels in streams and rivers for decades. turning back to politics now, in wide ranging remarks from mar-a-lago yesterday, president-elect trump defended one of his most controversial cabinet picks, robert f. kennedy jr. garrett haake has the latest. president-elect trump's polarizing pick to lead the department of health and human services returning to capitol

hill this morning for a marathon day of meetings with senators. kennedy, the former independent presidential candidate turned trump supporter and long-time vaccine skeptic pressed on his views about the polio vaccine as he shuttled between meetings. kennedy long touted the link between vaccines and autism, leading concerns about what his leadership at the federal health agencies could mean. >> what do you think? >> i think he will be much less radical than you would think, and i think he has an open mind or would not have put him there. . i was against mandates. zblu school vaccinations requirements are set by state. recommendations and schedules. limiting the direct influence kennedy or trump could have.

trump also announcing $100 billion investment from japanese technology firm softbank which will create 100,000 jobs. >> the first term everybody was fighting me. in this term everybody wants to be my friend. biggest difference is, people want to get along with me this time. >> reporter: the president-elect is facing a new legal setback today with a new york judge who presided over his hush money trial now denying his bid to toss out his guilty verdict. that verdict should be vacated in light of the supreme court's ruling expanding the scope of presidential immunity. the judge has not yet set a sentencing date. >> nbc's garrett haake with that report. joining us now is jeh johnson, presidential of the national action network.

rev rand al sharpton, along with willie, john than lemire, joe and me. >> rfk jr., polio vaccines, is he for it or against it. what's going on there, i guess donald trump yesterday said he was for the polio vaccine, but rfk jr., i'm pausing here, we're asking for a guy who's going to run hhs spots one of the great breakthroughs in medical science. before that, polio vaccine, people's lives ravaged by polio and this is open for debate? >> yes, jonas salk invented the vaccine. kennedy was pressed yesterday in the hallways in the senate

whether he supported the polio vaccine, twice he mumbled that he does, consistent what he said before, he know his top adviser as he potentially seeks to staff hhs is a lawyer who has previously asked the fda to revoke the polio vaccine. doing job interviews for hhs. kennedy himself suggested he was for it. after donald trump at mar-a-lago a few hours prior said that he was for it. he even spoke about people in his life who was touched by polio. trump suggested that he wasn't for any sort of vaccine mandates. he was just thinking about covid t or the childhood vaccines required to go to school. real uncertainty here. >> the mandates, willie, you're

going to have polio, measles, diseases that have gone away come back, we're seeing it in communities around here. >> i mean, polio, the vaccine was invented and implemented in 1955, saved tens of millions of people. so what he does is, he does the old i'm just asking questions, i'm just asking questions. which opens the door to all kind of vaccine hesitancy. making peopleless healthy. now he like others have tried to moderate themselves because they know they're going to face a confirmation hearing, when he asked the hallways, yes, i support the polio vaccine. when vaughn hillyard asked him are you going to take the fluoride out of the water, he said, no i'm not. whether he's been saying for

years and years or in front of the cameras. >> the very people like kennedy and people in kennedy's social strata and with his wealth, can i guess afford to have these views that aren't backed by data but rev, people who can't, it's -- the poorest people in mississippi and alabama, in the deep south, those people who by the way had the highest vaccine percentage rate, mississippi was number one, religious exceptions no. exhealth exceptions, no. you go to school in mississippi you get scthe vaccine and they drove those rates down for all of those childhood diseases, so, now, weirdly enough the very

states that were proudest of repushing the vaccines and maki their children the healthiest in america are now the very ones, because of this bizarre sort of covid post, covid political world we live in, that are now pushing back against it, it's going to be the kids, the poorest kids in the most disadvantaged communities that are going to suffer the most. >> and i think the sad irony of this rois that you're absolutel right about mississippi -- alabama, i have relatives in alabama, i'm from the north, these states voted for donald st trump, so they are putting trump in and trump is allowing it to be fb debatable whether these vaccines should continue. robert kennedy is the exact opposite of the least health concerns of these that are the

most dire in terms of being in the social strata and economic ladder, he's never lived that life. i was born and raised in r brooklyn. my mom was from alabama. i know cousins that literally depend on the things that he's having a philosophical debate. >> so, secretary, let's talk about some of these controversial picks, the one for the job you held. >> she's flying turned radar, by the way. >> talk about that and also you've been through the confirmation process, what can some of these controversial picks expect? >> well, first of all, as we're talking i'm thinking about the recent supreme court nominees, roe v. wade settled law, where did that get us?

first of all, i think it's important to come back to basics about what the role of what a cabinet officer is. i ran the third largest department of our government. a cabinet officer is the ceo of a very large government department. you're also someone who advances the president's political agenda at that department but you're also an adviser to the president to say to the president things that he/she needs to hear but doesn't necessarily want to hear and so first and foremost, you have to ask yourself the basics, can this person run a very, very large department of our government? you look at someone like -- >> it's a basic competence question. >> it's even more than that, do you know how to run stuff, listen, gain the respect and admiration of the people that you lead, you understand

washington, you understand budgets, how the press functions? legislative affairs. a lot of that is getting lost in current debate about whether some of these nominees satisfy even the most basic qualifications for a job almost anywhere. >> what do you think, secretary, are the practical implications of someone like pete hegseth, kristi noem, someone like tulsi gabbard at dni, kash patel, the list is long, what happens if some or all of these people get those jobs? >> well, you know, i think, to the extent this president perceives he has mandate to be a disrupter to really shake things up, you have to hire people for your cabinet who know how to do that as opposed to flailing around and making a lot of

noise. t if confirmed pete hegseth wou edbe the part of the national command authority, he would be part of the national security chain of command, second highest, just below the president, when you think about it is a pretty scary thought. the department of defense is massive, massive bureaucracy, the army, navy, space force, trying to figure out how to run a budget, i served with bob gates and leon pan net that. >> but two pro. >> reporter: he was the most experienced national security official in the room and, you know, leon pannetta, experience in kopg, he brought all of that to the pentagon. that's the type of person this

country deserves to lead the most powerful military force on the planet. >> wow. okay. so a new piece in the atlantic looks to explain how democrats lost latheir way on immigration. in it, advisers to former president obama and vice president kamala harris respectively write, quote, now that trump is preparing to take office again, democrats and immigrationed a dewe kates shar the same priority -- to fight his radical maz deportation plans. democrats need to insist on more control and more compassion, more order and more immigration -- strict limits and wider lilegal pathways. this stands in stark contrast to both right and left. the right argues to kick out and keep out all immigrants. the left argues to let all comers stay. both amount to overreaches that

will eventually backfire. voters want a middle way, but if they're forced to choose between those who promise control and those who seem indifferent to chaos they'll choose the former. democrats have to win the argument regardless of whether the advocacy groups come along. immigration is a defining feature of our past, present and future. the best way to be either is to be both. o >> well, and jeh, this is, yo wanted to talk about this today. i'm so glad you did. this is something that democrats haven't gotten for 30 years, there's always been the assumption that hispanic voters want illegal immigration, there's always been the assumption that if you actually secure the border you're going to lose hispanic voters.

i know, because i was having these debates with democrats in the 1990s. saying, you're wrong to democratic friends.cr you're wrong to think that because someone is hispanic they support open borders. it's not that simple. here we are 30 years later, cost the democrats for having a lot of people running their party that feel that way. >> first of all, i question, whether there's hispanic vote in this country, because latinos in this country are such a diverse group of people, the moment for me, one day in laredo, texas, in 2016, 85% democratic, the local congressman there said to me, these people want us to be fair and compassionate but they also want us atto get the border und control. but definition, hispanic voters

are people who came to this country the right way, because they're eligible to vote, they became citizens. during the obama, and i agree with every word of that article, during the obama administration, the holily grail, the view was, we should have comprehensive immigration reform but republicans are only going to agree to it if we secure the border. obama didn't mind taking the grief of a secure border, he was upset about the deporter in chief label. we got it through the senate. he deported more people than donald trump did. so much of this is just pr, but barack obama deported more illegal immigrants than donald trump. >> and tsthe numbers of illegal crossings during the obama years were ngthe lowest than they had been in 20 years.

>> 50-year low when he left office. >> i n was there. >> in 2016. >> so, when trump comes in the democrats swing hard to the left and i cringed at that presidential primary debate where they all raised their hand we want to decriminalize border crossings. you can't decriminalize border n crossings, you're sending the message to central and south america, everybody come. i think biden was the only one who threfused to raise his hand because he understood the issue better. >> and when you're listening, reading the article, secretary, also clargue they lost their political moment by not pushing back saying, wait a minute, what are aiyou talking about? we deported more illegal immigrants under obama than trump. they could have turned it

around. democrats didn't want to look like this because -- and i think that lost key votes. i grew up in brooklyn, new york, there's no such thing as one monolith hispanic. people from puerto rico are different from people from ecuador. >> i think the democratic party frankly has to get away from identity politics. a lot of democrats and i'll include ramyself in this came t believe that you talked to groups of voters on specific rsissues based upon their identity. and you r know for a long time e black vote in this country voted as a bloc which is becoming less and less the case all the time, so we tended to approach

hispanic voters, other demographics in the same way, if i just touched these three, four issues i'll win this demographic. this vote, this demographic, the so-called hispanic vote in this country is way more complex. >> and showed itself this time around on ndthe issue of immigration, where they said democrats have this almost patronizing assumption they're with us on immigration to which many latino americans who live t along the border and states who experience this flood of migrants, we came here legally, there should be a legal and orderly process. how do democrats win back an argument it truly feels like donald trump has captured and won at least in this election e in. >> i believe that the key is to

embrace comprehensive reform, border security, take care of the daca population. all this is part of a comprehensive package. we had embraced that during the obama dyears. almost got through the congress, it failed in the house, and frankly this is an opportunity for donald trump, same thing, legitimate bragging rights if he can get prehensive immigration reform through. i know he's sympathetic to the daca population, they're a remarkable group of people, so this is an opportunity for him, if he truly wants to embrace comprehensive immigration reform. >> all right, we have an update

we've been reporting about donald trump suing various media organizations and we mentioned the des moines register and its top pollster, he's suing for brazen election interference and fraud over its final 2024 presidential poll showing vice president kamala harris leading in iowa. we're finding out the lawsuit was filed. >> it was filed. so, jeh, i play a dumb country lawyer on tv. you're a great city lawyer in real life. mika told me i was too dismissive. >> i just think the overall -- >> maybe you shouldn't say cbs is going to win their lawsuit.th it seems pretty obvious, but right here we're now talking about a lawsuit for every pollster that gets something

wrong. i mean, you tell me. is there a judge in iowa or in america that's going to allow that to get passed summary judgment for election interference. >> my honest answer, possibly. who appointed that judge, frankly, for example in the immigration space, pro-enforcement lawsuits are brought in brownsville division in the southern district of texas and pro-immigration reform in the northern district of california or the eastern district of new york. >> what are the chances for cesuccess ultimately for suing pollster in. >> should be zero. less than zero. >> so, again, i understand we had the conversation last hour the idea, make yourself a big bear eland scare off all the o press, but that stops working

when you lose lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit, but i'm sorry, not my expertise, but anybody here thinks that ann seltzer is going to lose on this, i'd like to see the betting markets o on this. sue cbs because you don't like how bethey edit an interview, these are going to be -- they're going to be unsuccessful, so the question is, at what point do you start showing that they're just frivolous and the press can just dismiss him. >> if it's about win/loss record on the lawsuits, trump is going to lose these. but, i think the real point here is to intimidate going forward, ngdeep pocket of news organizations fight these and pay the legal bills, individual reporters may not be able to, they get tie up in court.

they become a drain, a distraction. that's the point here. he's not going to win this. >> stop people from taking polls opin the future in. >> polls that he doesn't like. >> t polls that he doesn't like. >> an election he won. he swept through the battleground states. this poll, or his attorney said this poll rnwasn't a miss. it clearly was. a huge miss. it was an attempted election interference to create energy and momentum around kamala harris heading into election day. >> nthere's something that dona trump knows, he knows that the fact of the filing of the complaint will get more press etattention than the resolutionf that lawsuit. >> let's go back to immigration.

>> thank you so much. former homeland security secretary jeh johnson, greatly appreciate your time. n, coming up, president-elec trump is building what's likely to be the richest administration in history. worth nearly an estimated $474 billion. former labor secretary robert rice joins the conversation next to discus the incoming administration of billionaires, on "morning joe."

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arissa's hair salon wants to expand their space, and steve's t-shirt shop wants to bring on more help. with the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee, they can think more about possibilities for their business and not the cost of their internet. it's five years of gig-speeds and advanced security. all from the company with 99.9% network reliability. get the 5-year price lock guarantee, now back for a limited time. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities™. time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning, a number of top universities are urging their interpassional students who will travel home for winter break to return to the u.s. before president-elect trump takes office, axios reports at least ten universities including usc, m.i.t. and the university of pennsylvania have told their international students to be back stateside before the

january 20th inauguration. they're are over 1 million students from other countries studying in the u.s. a bill to officially designate the bald eagle as the national bird is heading to president biden's desk after passage in the house yesterday. the eagle has been unofficial symbol of the nation since the second continental congress. put the bird on the great seal on the united states but never specifically designated the national bird. the senate passed a similar bill back in july. >> southwest florida eagle game. >> there you go. one of the earl yets tablets inscribed with the ten commandments is scheduled to go up for auction tomorrow. >> really? >> 115-pound, 2-foot marble slab dates back to some time between

300 and 800 a.d. it was unearthed during railroad excavations during the southern coast of israel, but its significance went unrecognized for decades. sotheby's opening bid set at $1 billion. the incredible power of a.i. and the potential threats to human dignity and values, eric schmidt the former ceo of google, when computers start to define their own objectives, at that stage, unplugging the system might be the best course of action. >> i don't know if it works that way. >> unplug it like christmas light and i don't like where this is going. >> at all. >> it's frightening. all right, the incoming trump administration is set to include the wealthiest roster of

appointees in the country's history. trump has named 13 individuals who are each reported to have net worths of more than $1 billion. that list of course led by tesla and spacex ceo elon musk the richest man in the world is heading up doge alongside fellow billionaire vivek ramaswamy. joining us now is robert reich, he's written extensively on his substack about potential consequences of trump's wealthy selections. also with us is andrew ross sorkin. >> thank you all for being with us. so, mr. secretary, greatly appreciate you being on the show. >> thank you. >> it seems the further we get into the nominations the more we see this is looking like an

administration, a government for the billionaires and by the billionaires. so, what do you find to be the gravest threat of such an accumulation of wealth at the top of the united states government. >> look, joe, good morning. mika, good morning to you. i think the biggest problem with having so many billionaires at the to which government is that billionaires don't exactly know how normal people live, but secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the way people get to the top of the trump administration is by providing a lot of money, i mean elon musk contributed, the latest data i've seen said elon musk contributed $277 million to getting trump elected. and he has made since the trump

election, in terms of his actual net worth, he's increased his net worth by $170 billion since the trump election. now, that's pretty good return on investment. and the reason that is such a high return on investment and a high return from many of the other billionaires and multimillionaires in the trump administration is that they're no longer and the markets assume they're no longer going to have to be worried about as many regulations, as many lawsuits, they'll have a tax cuts, extension of the trump tax cuts, they'll have -- in other words all the things they wanted and they bargained for when they put money into the trump campaign. that's the problem. and as lewis brandeis the great jurist in america said years ago at the end of the last gilded

age, america has a choice, we can have a great wealth in the hands of few people or we could have a democracy, but we can't have both. >> mr. secretary, good to have you on this morning. great irony, donald trump, won over working class voters across racial and gender lines, he's viewed in many corners of the country as a working class hero. but what is the implication of this for regular people, to have people, billionaires in power, billionaires calling the shots, the extension of that tax cut that expires at the end of next year, widely expected to be extended, what does it mean to regular working people to have billionaires running the government. >> well, first of all, if doge, department of government efficiency, actually does as

elon musk said it will, get $2 trillion cut from the federal budget, now your definition of waste and inefficiency may be different from somebody else's definition of waste and inefficiency. the only way you can cut 2 trillion there are you being a billionaire, you cut, where, you cut social security, medicare, medic aid, those are the big places you go, there are no other place, if you want to get rid of regulations, you try to get rid of health and safety and environmental regulations, those are the ones that you as a billionaire are really up against in terms of your business, but those same regulations may be extraordinarily important to the average working person in america. because they protect that average working person. the same thing with labor law, the same thing with month

nopization, what you're going to do as a billionaire, very influential billionaire now at. of the trump administration you're going to get rid of antitrust laws that big monopolies are going to get bigger and bigger. prices are going to get higher and higher. you as somebody who might want to join a labor yuan less opportunity to join a labor union because the regulations are going to be tighten and harder. because billionaires don't want labor unions. >> if you want to cut $2 trillion, the old saying, ask willie sutton, that's where the money is, the money here, 80% of it is social security, medicare, medicaid, defense spending, and interest on the debt. and you look at $2 trillion,

they're not going to get there first of all, but what's remaining they'll be slashing va benefits, they'll be slashing transportation, they'll be slashing education. they'll be slashing health. the very things that americans look at as what the federal government does for them. you can't get there from here. it's just the reality. >> that includes trump voters, of course, we talk a lot about him being afraid of alienating his base. >> trump famously in the first term after passing a tax cut, addressed the crowd at mar-a-lago and said, i just made you all richer. billionaires are working for him they're getting richer, too. what's the reaction to that from the rest of the business community. >> the rest of the business community is both excited in one way and scared in another. they are excited by some of the

regulatory process or deregulatory policy, they do like, they're praying and hoping that the tax policy is lower frankly, what they're hoping to do is they want to grow their own businesses which would grow the economy. whether you can grow enough revenue -- >> first of all, we heard under reagan that if you cut taxes enough, then the tax cuts will pay for themselves. they did not. the debt exploded. we heard under george w. bush, if we cut taxes enough they'll pay for themselves. let me say, while i was a small government conservative i never believed this because it never happened. we heard the same thing under donald trump in the first term. he said, we'll cut taxes, i want to play this out, because people are going to be hearing this for the next six months, if we just cut taxes they'll pay for

themselves. no, we had the most massive deficits during donald trump's first terms. these tax cuts don't pay for themselves. country a $30 trillion in debt they're going to cause hyperinflation, a tax increase on the very people along with tariffs who can't afford it. this is going to bring pain to working class and middle class americans. if they move forward extending these massive tax cuts. $36 trillion in debt right now. >> well, so, look, to me there are two things have to happen. one you'll have to figure out the tax piece of this. very hard to lower taxes from here. that seems almost impossible. >> right. >> you could try to get rid some of the deductions and other things. i don't know what you do for salt and blue states.

what kind of budget cuts do you actually enact? is that going to come from the department of defense, i don't know, it's possible this whole elon musk thing might actually work out in favor of actually reducing the department of defense's budget or using that money in a better way, these are the big questions on the table. in the business word, excited and possibly scared because they don't know what happens to the tariff piece, how does that change the deficit. >> mr. secretary, when we talk about the unusual amount of wealthy people that are now being proposed to be in trump's cabinet, at heart, the bottom line is basically how people view government and the average american views government for something to provide and protect and make sure their lives are stable, but the wealthy view government much differently in terms of them trying to make sure they're deregulated, they

can do what they want to do and keep all of us from interfering with them. really at the center of the problem of having a bunch of billionaires running the country. >> that's absolutely right. what we've seen since inequality began surging, 35, 40 years ago, now it's really surged is that the very wealthy in this country from seceded from the are of the country, they don't need the kind of public services that the rest of the country needs. they are very -- kind of they don't want to pay the taxes to support those services because they don't use those services. they have private services. they have seceded into a private nation in effect of very wealthy people. in america today, to be extraordinarily wealthy means you don't have to see anybody

who's not. >> there you go. former u.s. labor secretary robert reich, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. fascinating conversation. also andrew ross sorkin. >> we have a couple more questions for andrew. >> no more rate cuts. >> what are you working on right now. >> the situation of what the federal reserve is going to do because we've been talking for quite a while what they're going to cut. we'll have a quarter-point cut, there's a move afoot i'd say in the last two, three days to say look, inflation is higher than we thought and i think -- i'm not going say it's jump ball tomorrow when we find out, they'll cut rates and then we'll pause for a very, very long time. >> of course the number of consumer price index a little hotter -- >> everything's coming in a little bit hotter than planned.

if you reduce the rates now are you leading to more inflation. if you believe the tariffs are coming that's going to be inflationary. very hard though for the federal reserve to do things in advance of them actually happening pothe central si >> because the financial times had an article a couple of days ago talking about the bubbles, america's basically, it's built on three bubbles. they talked about the stock market being one of those bubbles, but mentioned a couple of other things, is there a growing concern on wall street that we are in the days before the 2008 crash, when everybody, i know we're in trouble, let me just say, give me a second to

spell this one out. because this is important. >> okay. >> before the 2008 crash, let's get into real estate. guys that i knew that, you know, basket weavers, were in real estate, teachers were in real estate, everybody was in real estate. no money down. money for nothing. and then everything blew up. i'm sit ting a couple of days ago, some of the smartest business minds in the world and they're talking about something called -- where it's $600 billion or something, just these outrages you -- >> the crypto. >> the crypto stuff. i go, listen, i'm kind of stupid, i don't get it. i don't get this, either. what is this attached to? oh, nothing. it's not attached to anything.

>> doge coin, not attached to anything. >> they make up these bizarre things. they put it out there and people snap it up, man, this is like -- >> yes, i think all of that stuff, to me the crypto, bitcoin is now at $107,000. i would have warned you at $5,000, $10,000, $15,000, you'd look at me and said you're wrong. you look at this and you say to yourself it doesn't feel like it makes sense. it's not connected to anything. >> it doesn't feel like it's connected to anything. bitcoin and a lot of the crypto is a belief. you have to believe in it. by the way, gold to some degree is like that, it's a belief. you can make jewelry out of it. i don't know if we're on the cusp of something. the real question, how much

leverage, how much debt is in the system, that to me is -- >> is there growing fear that we're in a bubble on wall street. >> there's a concern but not a full-blown panic yet and the truth is, if you look at where the market is, you look at masa son down at mar-a-lago yesterday committing $100 billion that's a sign of something, he doesn't have $100 billion, big existential questions whether that tips the market. >> all of us going around, i don't get it. there's reason it didn't make sense it destroyed the economy. all of these things that aren't making sense right now i'd always say, if it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense. coming up next, tony award

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♪♪ ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them blue for me and you ♪ and ♪ i think to myself what a wonderful world ♪

♪ i see skies of blue ♪ ♪ skies of blue ♪ ♪ clouds of white ♪ ♪ the bright blessed days, but the dark secret nights ♪ ♪ and i think to myself what a wonderful world ♪ ♪ because i think to myself what a wonderful world ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ >> wow. wow. that's our next guest channeling one of the icons of jazz music in the new broadway protection, the louis armstrong musical.

dazzling dance numbers and accounts armstrong's rise from new orleans to become one of the most prolific musicians of the 20th century. joining us now is james monroe monroe -- co-director of the show. the sound of louis armstrong, really incredible. such a distinctive voice. what did you do to get there? >> i never studied for anything thr than i have for this part right here, i watched every clip, i listened to every interview that i could possibly. he's so distinctive because he's new orleans boy, i had to make sure that i got certain things he said. it was about studying. >> not just a specific voice but it's a difficult voice.

does it take a toll on you? >> it does. it does. but i was very smart about it. usually broadway does eight shows a week, i do six shows, i have a fantastic alternates that goes on and the rest of time i made the decision, my wife and i talked about it, i'm a hermit when i'm not doing the show, for this period of time we just been chilling. >> so it's not just getting the voice -- it's sustaining the voice, you cut down the number of shows, also you had to do some specific training. figure out how ways to get there. how did you get there when you were training. >> i was trying to find a place where i could sit. when you're hoarse, you find

this place. all of a sudden you realize things like voice, you find that moment, once you did that, i called a friend of mine who played beetlejuice on days, how do you sustain eight shows a week, he said i have a great teacher. i worked on things so i could do it. >> here's james, ensemble singing another louis armstrong classic. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪ keep on smiling ♪

♪ the whole world smiles, the whole world smiles, the whole world smiles with you ♪ >> so good. >> james, explain in the historic context of where louis armstrong fit, he was probably one of first we called crossover artists, hy was he able to break the lines, became a legend to all americans. >> he was the first pop star because louis said things like, music is music. note is note in any language. so he let the music speak for him. people really enjoyed the music. today when we think of jazz, cool, this place for certain people, know jazz was dance music and everybody wanted to dance and louis could play it.

he could play it better than anybody else. he was kind of like a rapper of his time. he'd say brothers would pull up with the horn, he battled them. he had this personality to him, his energy and the way he played made people want to jump on the bandwagon, he was the first american pop star and nobody was expecting this dark skinned brother with this big smile to be music's hero for america before even all of that other stuff happened. >> people who know him, know it's a wonderful world. they don't know his backstory, what did you learn about him as you study zbld one thing i learned about louis armstrong the most he was the most realest brothers in the world, there's a certain style and persona that

hollywood gave him and that's not who he is, that smiling guy is, but that's only a part, when you're an african american artist that's something you really, really understand of what the country wants you to be and who you truly are. if louis was alive today who would he be hanging with? snoop dogg, for obvious reasons. certain things that louis did in his life and he was very -- he let people know, there are certain things that he liked to partake in. he was real brother and he really cared about black things, he was one of the blackest brothers around and i think hollywood tried to you know sugarcoat that and make him a certain way. >> what's interesting, what you say is one of the things that you relate with him about is when he was younger, black kids were saying, why are you singing

that white music? he said, in church i'm not singing that white music, because he was an artist, like ray charles. did a whole album of country music. >> i totally can relate to that. i came up in the '90s, but i loved musical theater, there's show out right now, gypsy, i love ethel mirren. i loved musical theater. i loved country music. i grew up on gospel music, i grew up on music. there are certain brothers that want to keep you in your place but also certain white folks that want to keep you in your place. jim, we love you. first of all, my name is not jim. you say something about being there for your people, black

leist matter, oh god, he's black. yes, been this way the whole time. when louis spoke out about little rock it shocked the system of america. he was beyonce before beyonce. beyonce is black, no louis did the same thing. louis said, it's not being able both sides i'm just being who i am and my music speaks for itself. >> well, it's absolutely wonderful. we have to go. i love this, the new show a wonderful world" is playing now on broadway at studio 64. tickets available online or at the box office. actor and co-director james monroe iglehart, thank you very much for coming on. a tight schedule. this is nice of you for coming in. >> rev, what a great point,

people are always trying to be put in boxes. ray charles, ray charles decided, i'm going to do a coalbum and you can't stop me. it goes number one. that's what great artists do. >> that's what everybody respected. james brown said, mr. armstrong. >> all right. wonderful. >> the godfather called him mister. for good reason. that does it for us this morning. anna cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now, breaking news, an assassination in the shadow of the kremlin. ukraine claiming credit for a moscow bombing that killed russia's chief of biological weapons. what we know about the target and the attack. also ahead, tragedy in wisconsin. police set to update their investigation into a deadly school shooting as we learn the shooter was a